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#1 Posted by The_Soverighn (1813 posts) - - Show Bio

Rules

No Prep

Win By Any Means

In Character

Location

Combatants

#2 Posted by The_Soverighn (1813 posts) - - Show Bio

Death Of All Things

#3 Posted by protectyournose (908 posts) - - Show Bio

Lucifer Morningstar would own Oblivion.

#4 Posted by XiiX (8024 posts) - - Show Bio

@protectyournose said:

Lucifer Morningstar would own Oblivion.

#5 Posted by The_Soverighn (1813 posts) - - Show Bio

whoa

#6 Posted by kingkronos (2501 posts) - - Show Bio

Lucifer should win.

#7 Posted by a88378438 (3420 posts) - - Show Bio

Oblivion

#8 Posted by spawn_123 (1693 posts) - - Show Bio

Lucifer

#9 Posted by The_Soverighn (1813 posts) - - Show Bio

Please Give Reasons For Answer

#10 Posted by demifiendninja (299 posts) - - Show Bio

lucifer

#11 Posted by Hyper_God (933 posts) - - Show Bio

Oblivion wins .

#12 Posted by Killer_of_trolls (1852 posts) - - Show Bio

ROFLMAO at bias comments.

If you ask me.

Prime Lucy loses. Don't think he did anything on a cosmic entity level.

Lucy with Michael's power stomps, due to him equaling Vertigo's god. Although it was obviously hyperbole, he did say that created his own Megaverse.

This is just based on scans I've seen of both

#13 Posted by NightThrasher (77 posts) - - Show Bio

Lucifer would stomp. His endurance is universal-level. He took a point-blank blast that had the power to erase all creation and lived. He is very powerful in using magic, he was able to defeat gods while powerless. Oblivion can't win here.

#14 Posted by The_Soverighn (1813 posts) - - Show Bio

@NightThrasher: Oblivion is a lot bigger than a god he is a abstract being

#15 Posted by Hyper_God (933 posts) - - Show Bio

@Killer_of_trolls said:

he did say that created his own Megaverse.

It was a multiverse :

#16 Posted by IZZR (4289 posts) - - Show Bio
@XiiX said:

@protectyournose said:

Lucifer Morningstar would own Oblivion.

#17 Posted by The_Soverighn (1813 posts) - - Show Bio

@Hyper_God: one of oblivion's aspects eats multiverse's

#18 Edited by Hyper_God (933 posts) - - Show Bio

@The_Soverighn said:

@Hyper_God: one of oblivion's aspects eats multiverse's

I know that , although to be precise , an aspect of Oblivion destroyed 98.76% of the multiverse . I was merely correcting that ill-informed individual that Lucifer's creation was a multiverse , not a megaverse .

#19 Posted by Killer_of_trolls (1852 posts) - - Show Bio

@Hyper_God said:

@The_Soverighn said:

@Hyper_God: one of oblivion's aspects eats multiverse's

I know that , although to be precise , an aspect of Oblivion destroyed 98.76% of the multiverse . I was merely correcting that ill-informed individual that Lucifer's creation was a multiverse , not a megaverse .

what? Oblivion never ate anything! It was Amatsu-Mikaboshi who absorved that, who also killed Oblivion.

sorry about the megaverse thing, that was an accident, because of another debate outside this thread

#20 Posted by GhostRider2 (3279 posts) - - Show Bio

Lucifer Morningstar for the win.

#21 Posted by Hyper_God (933 posts) - - Show Bio

@Killer_of_trolls said:

@Hyper_God said:

@The_Soverighn said:

@Hyper_God: one of oblivion's aspects eats multiverse's

I know that , although to be precise , an aspect of Oblivion destroyed 98.76% of the multiverse . I was merely correcting that ill-informed individual that Lucifer's creation was a multiverse , not a megaverse .

what? Oblivion never ate anything! It was Amatsu-Mikaboshi who absorved that, who also killed Oblivion.

sorry about the megaverse thing, that was an accident, because of another debate outside this thread

Its crystal clear that you never read The Mighty Thor Annual 01 , otherwise you would know that the Chaos King was retconned as being a mere aspect of Oblivion .

#22 Posted by Killer_of_trolls (1852 posts) - - Show Bio

@Hyper_God: OMG! that is horrible WIS. Oblivion never shown such power in marvel history. Thanks for warning me.

#23 Posted by Primebonnick (1983 posts) - - Show Bio

well lucifer did fly into oblivion like it was nothing after telling the presence Fuck you.. so i would still go for him

#24 Posted by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

@Primebonnick: Watch the language please.

Moderator
#25 Posted by Primebonnick (1983 posts) - - Show Bio

@Deranged Midget: sorry about that got too excited

#26 Posted by Hyperlight (5708 posts) - - Show Bio

i believe they both are nearly omnipotent but lucifer pretty much is of greater authority... and among abstracts authority equals power. Lucy wins

#27 Posted by icysloth (1305 posts) - - Show Bio

@The_Soverighn: why do you keep creating lucifer threads I will tell you that TOAA, The presence, Great evil beast and Michael are the only people who can beat Lucifer. LT cant and neither can oblivion.

#28 Posted by Zoom (14668 posts) - - Show Bio
@Hyper_God said:

@The_Soverighn said:

@Hyper_God: one of oblivion's aspects eats multiverse's

I know that , although to be precise , an aspect of Oblivion destroyed 98.76% of the multiverse . I was merely correcting that ill-informed individual that Lucifer's creation was a multiverse , not a megaverse .

I'll bite. 
 
What's the difference between a multiverse and a megaverse?
#29 Edited by Hyper_God (933 posts) - - Show Bio

@Zoom said:

I'll bite.
What's the difference between a multiverse and a megaverse?

What ?

Collections of associated realms from different multiverses . The context under which it is used , generally portrays it as a larger set above the multiverse in the comic book cosmological hierarchy .

#30 Posted by kingkronos (2501 posts) - - Show Bio

@Zoom said:

@Hyper_God said:

@The_Soverighn said:

@Hyper_God: one of oblivion's aspects eats multiverse's

I know that , although to be precise , an aspect of Oblivion destroyed 98.76% of the multiverse . I was merely correcting that ill-informed individual that Lucifer's creation was a multiverse , not a megaverse .

I'll bite. What's the difference between a multiverse and a megaverse?

Multiverse= 2 to infinite universes

Megaverses= 2 to infinite multiverses

Omniverse= 2 to infinite megaverses.

That's just how Marvel defines these terms.

@icysloth said:

@The_Soverighn: why do you keep creating lucifer threads I will tell you that TOAA, The presence, Great evil beast and Michael are the only people who can beat Lucifer. LT cant and neither can oblivion.

Wrong. LT wins against Lucifer, and so does Beyonder, Molecule Man, Amalgam Brothers, Mad Jim Jaspers, Merlin, etc.... Oblivion would be a very good fight for Morningstar.

#31 Posted by Onemoreposter (4021 posts) - - Show Bio

@kingkronos said:

@icysloth said:

@The_Soverighn: why do you keep creating lucifer threads I will tell you that TOAA, The presence, Great evil beast and Michael are the only people who can beat Lucifer. LT cant and neither can oblivion.

Wrong. LT wins against Lucifer, and so does Beyonder, Molecule Man, Amalgam Brothers, Mad Jim Jaspers, Merlin, etc.... Oblivion would be a very good fight for Morningstar.

Oh wow, no. In the DCU Lucifer is second only to The Presence. He beat's Oblivion and he'd massacre all of the names mentioned above.

#32 Posted by kingkronos (2501 posts) - - Show Bio

@Onemoreposter said:

@kingkronos said:

@icysloth said:

@The_Soverighn: why do you keep creating lucifer threads I will tell you that TOAA, The presence, Great evil beast and Michael are the only people who can beat Lucifer. LT cant and neither can oblivion.

Wrong. LT wins against Lucifer, and so does Beyonder, Molecule Man, Amalgam Brothers, Mad Jim Jaspers, Merlin, etc.... Oblivion would be a very good fight for Morningstar.

Oh wow, no. In the DCU Lucifer is second only to The Presence. He beat's Oblivion and he'd massacre all of the names mentioned above.

The above stated are considered megaversal beings. Mad Jim Jaspers can destroy the Omniverse for example, a feat much better than any of Lucifer or even Presence. Omniverse is multiple megaverses which are multiple multiverses. So Lucifer is way behind.

#33 Posted by IZZR (4289 posts) - - Show Bio
@kingkronos said:

@Onemoreposter said:

@kingkronos said:

@icysloth said:

@The_Soverighn: why do you keep creating lucifer threads I will tell you that TOAA, The presence, Great evil beast and Michael are the only people who can beat Lucifer. LT cant and neither can oblivion.

Wrong. LT wins against Lucifer, and so does Beyonder, Molecule Man, Amalgam Brothers, Mad Jim Jaspers, Merlin, etc.... Oblivion would be a very good fight for Morningstar.

Oh wow, no. In the DCU Lucifer is second only to The Presence. He beat's Oblivion and he'd massacre all of the names mentioned above.

The above stated are considered megaversal beings. Mad Jim Jaspers can destroy the Omniverse for example, a feat much better than any of Lucifer or even Presence. Omniverse is multiple megaverses which are multiple multiverses. So Lucifer is way behind.

No MJJ is dead that pretty much sums up that comparisson Lucy would really annihilate everyone you mentioned.
#34 Posted by kingkronos (2501 posts) - - Show Bio

@IZZR said:

@kingkronos said:

@Onemoreposter said:

@kingkronos said:

@icysloth said:

@The_Soverighn: why do you keep creating lucifer threads I will tell you that TOAA, The presence, Great evil beast and Michael are the only people who can beat Lucifer. LT cant and neither can oblivion.

Wrong. LT wins against Lucifer, and so does Beyonder, Molecule Man, Amalgam Brothers, Mad Jim Jaspers, Merlin, etc.... Oblivion would be a very good fight for Morningstar.

Oh wow, no. In the DCU Lucifer is second only to The Presence. He beat's Oblivion and he'd massacre all of the names mentioned above.

The above stated are considered megaversal beings. Mad Jim Jaspers can destroy the Omniverse for example, a feat much better than any of Lucifer or even Presence. Omniverse is multiple megaverses which are multiple multiverses. So Lucifer is way behind.

No MJJ is dead that pretty much sums up that comparisson Lucy would really annihilate everyone you mentioned.

I'm not really sure what you're trying to say here. But there are many Marvel characters who have much better feats than Lucifer.

#35 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

Beyonder (Pre Recon), Chaos King, Dormammu (Classic days), Cyttorak (oh I went there) Could be considered Omniversal Beings.

I though Oblivion was (like Eternity) a single Universe Abstarct Being.

#36 Posted by icysloth (1305 posts) - - Show Bio

@kingkronos said:

@Zoom said:

@Hyper_God said:

@The_Soverighn said:

@Hyper_God: one of oblivion's aspects eats multiverse's

I know that , although to be precise , an aspect of Oblivion destroyed 98.76% of the multiverse . I was merely correcting that ill-informed individual that Lucifer's creation was a multiverse , not a megaverse .

I'll bite. What's the difference between a multiverse and a megaverse?

Multiverse= 2 to infinite universes

Megaverses= 2 to infinite multiverses

Omniverse= 2 to infinite megaverses.

That's just how Marvel defines these terms.

@icysloth said:

@The_Soverighn: why do you keep creating lucifer threads I will tell you that TOAA, The presence, Great evil beast and Michael are the only people who can beat Lucifer. LT cant and neither can oblivion.

Wrong. LT wins against Lucifer, and so does Beyonder, Molecule Man, Amalgam Brothers, Mad Jim Jaspers, Merlin, etc.... Oblivion would be a very good fight for Morningstar.

firstly your definitions are wrong marvel hasn't been consistent at all with those definitions and they have been retconned mu;tiple times. In lamen terms, A universe is one reality lets say earch 616, a megaverse is all realities earth 513, earth 616 ect, and a omniverse is everything is everything that has ever been in the universe so if marvel ever sides to reboot and clean up its continuity the past will remain in the omniverse. Because of this definition it also means every appearance of LT is cannon because there is only one of him in the entire multiverse, so because in marvel the end it was stated he couldn't destroy the universe without destroying himself Lucifer can kill him. Unlike all these beings lucifer existed before the universe, multiverse, or omniverse was created and as such can sustain himself outside of it.

Now to your second point, Lucifer shaped his multiverse that is a greater feat than anything the people you listed have done.

#37 Posted by X_insignia1 (1384 posts) - - Show Bio

Lucy stomps, and he is actually greater than the living tribunal

#38 Posted by Killemall (18536 posts) - - Show Bio

I still honestly think Lucifer was meant to be more powerful. I know he doesnt have a lot of high end feats to go on, but to the best of my knoweledge (still have about 20 Lucifer solo issues to go), there is absolutely nothing that has hurt Lucifer unless depowered, or unless he himself hurts him.

He is meant to be second most powerful being in hierarchy, and has powers akin to PR molecule man, unbound molecule manipulation.

I think he should win Oblivion, problem is, if anyone asks me for a feat to prove this, i got none .

#39 Posted by kingkronos (2501 posts) - - Show Bio

@icysloth said:

@kingkronos said:

@Zoom said:

@Hyper_God said:

@The_Soverighn said:

@Hyper_God: one of oblivion's aspects eats multiverse's

I know that , although to be precise , an aspect of Oblivion destroyed 98.76% of the multiverse . I was merely correcting that ill-informed individual that Lucifer's creation was a multiverse , not a megaverse .

I'll bite. What's the difference between a multiverse and a megaverse?

Multiverse= 2 to infinite universes

Megaverses= 2 to infinite multiverses

Omniverse= 2 to infinite megaverses.

That's just how Marvel defines these terms.

@icysloth said:

@The_Soverighn: why do you keep creating lucifer threads I will tell you that TOAA, The presence, Great evil beast and Michael are the only people who can beat Lucifer. LT cant and neither can oblivion.

Wrong. LT wins against Lucifer, and so does Beyonder, Molecule Man, Amalgam Brothers, Mad Jim Jaspers, Merlin, etc.... Oblivion would be a very good fight for Morningstar.

firstly your definitions are wrong marvel hasn't been consistent at all with those definitions and they have been retconned mu;tiple times. In lamen terms, A universe is one reality lets say earch 616, a megaverse is all realities earth 513, earth 616 ect, and a omniverse is everything is everything that has ever been in the universe so if marvel ever sides to reboot and clean up its continuity the past will remain in the omniverse. Because of this definition it also means every appearance of LT is cannon because there is only one of him in the entire multiverse, so because in marvel the end it was stated he couldn't destroy the universe without destroying himself Lucifer can kill him. Unlike all these beings lucifer existed before the universe, multiverse, or omniverse was created and as such can sustain himself outside of it.

Now to your second point, Lucifer shaped his multiverse that is a greater feat than anything the people you listed have done.

You mean past timelines, and future timelines? Yes, of course Omniverse contains all of those.

Also are you talking about LT in the bolded part? If yes, then post some scans.

Creating a multiverse is a feat UN can do along with destroying the multiverse with a button. Which is still inferior to LT, and MM, Beyonder, MJJ, Toaa, Merlin, etc... So I don't really see your point....

#40 Posted by icysloth (1305 posts) - - Show Bio

@kingkronos: I can already tell I am not going to be able to enlighten you. I have been on this forum long enough to know when I see a fanboy that doesn't respond to logic.

#41 Posted by kingkronos (2501 posts) - - Show Bio

@icysloth said:

@kingkronos: I can already tell I am not going to be able to enlighten you. I have been on this forum long enough to know when I see a fanboy that doesn't respond to logic.

LOL, what? What are you talking about? It is you who refuses to accept logic. You tell me that Lucifer shaping a multiverse is a much better feat than any of which I listed, and I replied to you that the Ultimate Nulifier can do that, and even destroy the multiverse with a press of a button, which is still below beings I listed. Is this difficult to understand? Mad Jim Jaspers was going to destroy the Omniverse, a feat much better than destroying a megaverse, which is much better than destroying a multiverse. From what I can tell, you're the fanboy not me.

#42 Edited by Hyper_God (933 posts) - - Show Bio

@Killemall said:

He is meant to be second most powerful being in hierarchy, and has powers akin to PR molecule man, unbound molecule manipulation.

Which hierarchy are you referring to ? Iirc , Vertigo's Supreme Being admitted on-panel that he was shaped by external agents . Not to mention that there are beings like the Great Evil Beast and World's Funniest Mxy , that would dispute Lucifer's claim to such a prestigious position .

And Lucifer's powers are much more similar to Mad Jim Jaspers , in that he is a proficient manipulator of reality's substance , but is incapable off Creatio Ex Nihilo(nearly identical to how MJJ is powerless in a void) .

#43 Posted by icysloth (1305 posts) - - Show Bio

@Hyper_God said:

@Killemall said:

He is meant to be second most powerful being in hierarchy, and has powers akin to PR molecule man, unbound molecule manipulation.

Which hierarchy are you referring to ? Iirc , Vertigo's Supreme Being admitted on-panel that he was shaped by external agents . Not to mention that there are beings like the Great Evil Beast and World's Funniest Mxy , that would dispute Lucifer's claim to such a prestigious position .

And Lucifer's powers are much more similar to Mad Jim Jaspers , in that he is a proficient manipulator of reality's substance , but is incapable off Creatio Ex Nihilo(nearly identical to how MJJ is powerless in a void) .

he can use his powers to a greater extent, hes immortal, and using his powers doesn't ware away his sanity. and No even if you take him out of realities substance he is not powerless he can't be killed.

#44 Posted by Killemall (18536 posts) - - Show Bio

@Hyper_God said:

Which hierarchy are you referring to ? Iirc , Vertigo's Supreme Being admitted on-panel that he was shaped by external agents . Not to mention that there are beings like the Great Evil Beast and World's Funniest Mxy , that would dispute Lucifer's claim to such a prestigious position .

I am referring to the same hierarchy. Also all Presence claimed during the series was he was shaped by forces extrenal, that by-itself doesnt actually shown he is any less powerful. Correct me if i am wrong, because this is not something i have read but going off what i have seen Bane reply on few threads, Presence has held 2 mutiverse on his hand while asking Elaine what would you like to do.

While Great Evil Beast was undoubtly more powerful than Lucfier, given the fact that Lucifier on panel was stated to be scared of him, its a being that no longer exists and has been absorbed inside presence and was stated to be the dark side of presence itself. Its would be reasonable to assume, the dark side of the supreme being would be more powerful than beings like Obvilion.

Also i do not think Mxy didnt anything to suggest he was say more powerful than Lucifer, there were no direct encounter, and granted his feats were awesome, hitting Spectre with a planet on the head, and destroying and recreating DC multiverse, there is nothing stating who would have been more powerful in the two.

And Lucifer's powers are much more similar to Mad Jim Jaspers , in that he is a proficient manipulator of reality's substance , but is incapable off Creatio Ex Nihilo(nearly identical to how MJJ is powerless in a void) .

While you can use that analogy, you could just as easily have used the analogy of PR Molecule Man, who was on panel stated to be more powerful than Living Tribunal. Morningstar ability is molecule manipulation, granted he cannot create something new which is covered by Micheal's power, he has been said to have unbound molecule manipulation, i would it would cover manipulating molecule of virtually everything. Also different from MJJ , Lucifer for one has really uber durability capable of standing a multiversal blast, despite it being a control denotination of a powerful to create/ destroy everything, without a scratch on him.

#45 Posted by xMercy (9 posts) - - Show Bio

^--Talked about the MULTIVERSE he created.

Iceman vs Oblivion..^ Lucifer who took a creation blast to the face and was unscratched....would seriously get beat by Oblivion. Oh yes I agree. Oblivion stomps. (Sarcasm)

#46 Posted by eisjfiejss (513 posts) - - Show Bio

@Hyperlight said:

i believe they both are nearly omnipotent but lucifer pretty much is of greater authority... and among abstracts authority equals power. Lucy wins

Agreed. Oblivion is more comparable to members of the Endless, such as Destruction.

#47 Posted by Simon_the_digger (2919 posts) - - Show Bio

@protectyournose said:

Lucifer Morningstar would own Oblivion.

#48 Posted by The_Roman (3297 posts) - - Show Bio

So...Much...Collateral...Damage.

#49 Posted by Hyper_God (933 posts) - - Show Bio

@Killemall said:

Also i do not think Mxy didnt anything to suggest he was say more powerful than Lucifer, there were no direct encounter, and granted his feats were awesome, hitting Spectre with a planet on the head, and destroying and recreating DC multiverse, there is nothing stating who would have been more powerful in the two.

While you can use that analogy, you could just as easily have used the analogy of PR Molecule Man, who was on panel stated to be more powerful than Living Tribunal. Morningstar ability is molecule manipulation, granted he cannot create something new which is covered by Micheal's power, he has been said to have unbound molecule manipulation, i would it would cover manipulating molecule of virtually everything. Also different from MJJ , Lucifer for one has really uber durability capable of standing a multiversal blast, despite it being a control denotination of a powerful to create/ destroy everything, without a scratch on him.

Then you clearly never read World's Funniest . Mxy destroyed and recreated DC in its entirety , with complete ease . It included sh1t like like Elseworlds as well . I'll post a couple of scans once I upload the relevant issue(s) on my HD .

Lucifer's Big Bang durability withstanding feat has been blown way out of proportion imo , because it was controlled detonation , and there are a number of instances in Marvel where characters like Rick Jones , Reed Richards , Dr Strange have witnessed Big Bangs on point blank range as well , all the while being unscathed by the blast . All that this goes to show is that Big Bangs are viewed as Creation-level events in comic books , which don't involve destruction .

I used that analogy because Owen , iirc , was never mentioned to have limitation towards Creatio Ex Nihilo , which is very similar to MJJ's weakness . But w/e .

@icysloth said:

@Hyper_God said:

@Killemall said:

He is meant to be second most powerful being in hierarchy, and has powers akin to PR molecule man, unbound molecule manipulation.

Which hierarchy are you referring to ? Iirc , Vertigo's Supreme Being admitted on-panel that he was shaped by external agents . Not to mention that there are beings like the Great Evil Beast and World's Funniest Mxy , that would dispute Lucifer's claim to such a prestigious position .

And Lucifer's powers are much more similar to Mad Jim Jaspers , in that he is a proficient manipulator of reality's substance , but is incapable off Creatio Ex Nihilo(nearly identical to how MJJ is powerless in a void) .

he can use his powers to a greater extent, hes immortal, and using his powers doesn't ware away his sanity. and No even if you take him out of realities substance he is not powerless he can't be killed.

I made that comparison in context of the nature of their powers(both have vast reality manipulation abilities) , and their weaknesses . MJJ is powerless in a void because there is nothing for him to mold in a void , similar to how Lucifer is incapable of Creatio Ex Nihilo , and had to rely on Michael's demiurgic power to create his paradise .

@xMercy said:

Iceman vs Oblivion..^ Lucifer who took a creation blast to the face and was unscratched....would seriously get beat by Oblivion. Oh yes I agree. Oblivion stomps. (Sarcasm)

You have taken this showing way out of context . It appears that you are in the business of using out-of-context feats to lowball a character you know very little about , I see .

#50 Posted by justleader (1708 posts) - - Show Bio

lucifer wins this in a tough fight