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#151 Edited by THC (367 posts) - - Show Bio

So King Kai simply waited years and years whilst watching it happen to make his statement about it being destroyed? That sounds reasonable... or maybe Broly destroyed it all at once which was visibly shown?

The argument that "there were still stars so the galaxy wasn't destroyed" is a complete fallacy and here's why. There is no logical way for a single blast to destroy every bit of matter in the galaxy (unless of course that blast were multi-galaxy busting in power but condensed, in which case it'd easily vaporize everything in the area. Evidently Broly's blast was not multi-galaxy busting).Think about it: you fire a sawed-off shotgun at two people standing next to each other and it will hit them both, killing them; then you take two others, and position one behind the other and fire, and the person in the front will be hit by the bullets whilst the other remains relatively unharmed.

#152 Edited by TifaLockhart (14157 posts) - - Show Bio

Heck, I love Vegeta to death and don't care much for Broly, but the attempts to defame him are laughable.

#153 Posted by OverLordArhas (7793 posts) - - Show Bio

@reikai said:

They were going on about Movie Power levels. Cooler's ultimate form had a PL of 470million. Brolly at the moment he first turned into the LSSJ was 1.4billion, which isn't the final measure as Brolly's power continually increases.

Super Gogeta's in "Fusion Reborn" is made out as 2.5billion and happens around the time of the Buu Saga, not long after "Broly 2nd Coming". Gogeta only ever uses the SSJ form, unlike Gotenks who had to go SS3.

Mathematically, Goku as a SS3 has a higher PL than Super Gogeta. Problem is SS3 has a huge power drain so he can't sustain the output for long. Fusion lasts for 30min unless SS3 is used which uses more energy and diminishes the amount of time the fusion is held as Goten and Trunks had found out.

Anyway it places Super Janemba close to the 2billion mark for giving SS3 Goku some trouble, but also getting completely pwned by Gogeta.

Thank you and I agree that SSJ transformation is a BASE MULTIPLIER rather than the fix rate statement.

#154 Posted by TifaLockhart (14157 posts) - - Show Bio

For what it's worth, in the RPG, going super Saiyan multiplies power level by 2.5 buuuut it also multiplies skill by the same amount iirc.

#155 Edited by OverLordArhas (7793 posts) - - Show Bio

Heck, I love Vegeta to death and don't care much for Broly, but the attempts to defame him are laughable.

I think that this is healthy, by combining different opinions, we can debunk facts from myths.

#156 Posted by reikai (4667 posts) - - Show Bio

Thank you and I agree that SSJ transformation is a BASE MULTIPLIER rather than the fix rate statement.

If we work backwards Gogeta's base would be 50million, which as far as we know is Goku and Vegeta's base levels added together. And due to the nature of the Fusion Dance, their levels need to be relative to each other. As we know from the Buu Saga, Vegeta was still a bit weaker than Goku which is why he opted to get cursed by Babidi and gain the Majin upgrade

Figuring that in mind we could estimate Goku's base PL in Buu saga to be around 26-27million and Vegeta's between 23-24million respectively. This makes them about 2-3x stronger than they were during the Cell Games. If these figures are close to accurate, Goku as a SS2 would have a PL of 2.6-2.7billion.

As for the question why this wouldn't be enough to stop Janemba is more due to his nature than his power, and his Bunkai Teleportation (when he turns into cubes and vanishes). Janemba's Pl could be higher than my estimated 2billion, as much as six or seven billion. However the problem is Janemba has an easily exploitable weakness which drops his power and defenses drastically. Something that a figure like Brolly doesn't have to worry about.

While much of this may still be speculation, I can only go by what has been indicated and shown. And given that, Brolly during 2nd Coming, being able to overpower even a SS2 Goku and Gohan with SSJ Goten would indicate his PL as the LSSJ would've risen higher than their indicated levels. Potentially within the 5-7billion mark at that time. And if we allowed the LSSJ3 form as indicated in other media, that could easily bench him into the 25-35billion range easily.

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#157 Posted by 18hunt (2948 posts) - - Show Bio

@reikai said:

They were going on about Movie Power levels. Cooler's ultimate form had a PL of 470million. Brolly at the moment he first turned into the LSSJ was 1.4billion, which isn't the final measure as Brolly's power continually increases.

Super Gogeta's in "Fusion Reborn" is made out as 2.5billion and happens around the time of the Buu Saga, not long after "Broly 2nd Coming". Gogeta only ever uses the SSJ form, unlike Gotenks who had to go SS3.

Mathematically, Goku as a SS3 has a higher PL than Super Gogeta. Problem is SS3 has a huge power drain so he can't sustain the output for long. Fusion lasts for 30min unless SS3 is used which uses more energy and diminishes the amount of time the fusion is held as Goten and Trunks had found out.

Anyway it places Super Janemba close to the 2billion mark for giving SS3 Goku some trouble, but also getting completely pwned by Gogeta.

This is all true, and Broly has a higher level than buu, so that answers who wins...

#158 Edited by 18hunt (2948 posts) - - Show Bio

Aren't these banned? Or is it only dbz vs non dbz that is banned?

#159 Posted by Carter_esque (6447 posts) - - Show Bio

Majin Vegeta was in SSJ 2, right? I'm going with Vegeta if that's the case..

#160 Posted by 18hunt (2948 posts) - - Show Bio

Bro,y is past ssj2

#161 Edited by xlab3000 (3355 posts) - - Show Bio

when does a galaxy spin that fast in 13 seconds. Broly being destroyed by the sun and the combined powers of the z fighters defeating Broly disproves that Broly is galaxy buster. Broly is a solar system buster at best. heck Broly couldn't escape lava without a ki barrier. some laws of physics(real life physics) apply in a fictional universe

#162 Posted by Kobra678 (215 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm gonna say what i've seen somebody else say.

Even if Broly took 10 years (obviously didn't) to destroy that galaxy, there are about 300 billion stars in a galaxy (using ours as a reference). There are 315,532,800 or 315,619,200 seconds in 10 years. Depending on whether the decade contains two leap years, or three. Im gonna use the first one.

If it took ten years to destroy the galaxy then he would have had to destroy 950.772788122 stars every second! I also doubt Broly stayed awake 10 years destroying stars without King Kai saying anything. I think Broly is well above just solar system busting.

#163 Posted by MisterGuyMan (2026 posts) - - Show Bio

The problem with using the rotation of the galaxy as evidence is the scale. If you want to assume that the stars are rotating normally then the stars are travelling millions of times light speed.

#164 Posted by Rozalia (692 posts) - - Show Bio

@xlab3000 said:

when does a galaxy spin that fast in 13 seconds. Broly being destroyed by the sun and the combined powers of the z fighters defeating Broly disproves that Broly is galaxy buster. Broly is a solar system buster at best. heck Broly couldn't escape lava without a ki barrier. some laws of physics(real life physics) apply in a fictional universe

So what you're saying is durability = explosive power, nonsense. Someone can be able to nuke a planet but get punched out by a street level. Its clear that Broly's own durability is nothing compared to his energy shield which I don't think even shattered when hit with the Family Kamehameha. Hell using only his 10,000 power level as a baby his shield was able to survive Freiza's death ball so who knows how powerful that thing is at a powerlevel of 1,400,000,000.

#165 Posted by batnorris (679 posts) - - Show Bio

broly" no way! his power level is over- wait what is it again? ahh whatever!NO WAY! his power level is really high!

#166 Posted by xlab3000 (3355 posts) - - Show Bio

@rozalia: I'm not saying durability=explosive, I was saying that broly didn't escape the lava not get hurt by it. some real life physics apply to a fictional universe. those are video game power levels. most are inaccurate. they said a ssj vegeta had a power level of 6,000,000 and full power frieza at 12,000,000 and Super Perfect Cell 900,000,000. the power levels should be higher than that. for example these are more believable

#167 Edited by Rozalia (692 posts) - - Show Bio

What exactly is your point with the bringing up of powerlevels? Its moot anyway as Broly's shield can very likely tank even Vegeta's final explosion so how is he winning?

That energy shield is OP.

#168 Posted by SonDeathEater (668 posts) - - Show Bio

Broly getting defeated by a punch concentrated with everyone's energy makes perfect sense.People can amplify their punches to be as strong as their ki blasts,but is bad to use if people dodge the punch with all their ki inside.Ki blasts have shown evidence of having a force and have been deflected bc ki users can deflect them with amplified physical strength.

#169 Posted by reikai (4667 posts) - - Show Bio

Goku with 150mil as SSJ would be by end of Namek, by the time he returns to Earth it should be 300mil. And the image of him as SS3 puts him at 24billion which would place his Base Level at 48million. Which would mean between the start of the Android Saga and the Buu Saga 7yrs later (technically 8 since he spent a year in the RoSAT), his Base Level increased nearly five fold.

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#170 Edited by xlab3000 (3355 posts) - - Show Bio

@rozalia: I said Majin Vegeta would win not Broly

#171 Posted by Rozalia (692 posts) - - Show Bio

@xlab3000 said:

@rozalia: I said Majin Vegeta would win not Broly

I know hence why I said even Majin Vegeta's strongest attack get tanked with ease by the shield.

#172 Posted by xlab3000 (3355 posts) - - Show Bio

@rozalia: oh. how would he tank it with ease.

#173 Posted by Rozalia (692 posts) - - Show Bio
@rozalia said:

@xlab3000 said:

when does a galaxy spin that fast in 13 seconds. Broly being destroyed by the sun and the combined powers of the z fighters defeating Broly disproves that Broly is galaxy buster. Broly is a solar system buster at best. heck Broly couldn't escape lava without a ki barrier. some laws of physics(real life physics) apply in a fictional universe

So what you're saying is durability = explosive power, nonsense. Someone can be able to nuke a planet but get punched out by a street level. Its clear that Broly's own durability is nothing compared to his energy shield which I don't think even shattered when hit with the Family Kamehameha. Hell using only his 10,000 power level as a baby his shield was able to survive Freiza's death ball so who knows how powerful that thing is at a powerlevel of 1,400,000,000.

The answer is one of my previous posts.

#174 Posted by reikai (4667 posts) - - Show Bio

If the figure is correct and Goku as SS3 is 24billion then as SS2 his pl is 4.8billion. And if Majin Vegeta = SS2 Goku then his PL is 4.8billion as well.

Brolly as of 2nd Coming was exerting greater power than SS2 Goku, SS2 Gohan and SSJ Goten. That's 4.8b + around 1.1bil and 200mil or so. Which would mean Brolly is exerting more than 6billion.

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#175 Posted by Kuja9001 (211 posts) - - Show Bio

Funfact: Broly's power doesn't constantly increase.

#176 Edited by Fernando072295REBORN (504 posts) - - Show Bio

Majin Vegeta

I wouldn't mind of this happened though:

#177 Edited by Rozalia (692 posts) - - Show Bio

Pretty sure he mentions his power rising/power overflowing.

Nobody still has an answer to how Vegeta is getting passed the shield. Goku, Gohan, and Goten combined couldn't crack that thing so how is Vegeta?
In fact just to throw it out there, if Broly's shield at a power level of 10,000 blocked an attack with around 500,000 power level and we use that calculation to calculate Broly's shield at the recorded powerlevel from the first movie 1,400,000,000 would be able to block up to.............70,000,000,000!!!

Of course that number is relying on the shields potency staying consistent at higher powerlevels but nevertheless his shield is impressive either way. Oh yeah for fun if we were to use Reikai's figure of 6,000,000,000 for movie 2 then the shield would block up to.......300,000,000,000!!!!!!

#178 Posted by Wolfrazer (7682 posts) - - Show Bio

/sighs at all this hypothetical power level nonsense.

#179 Posted by Kuja9001 (211 posts) - - Show Bio

Another funfact: Baby Broly never tanked anything.

#180 Edited by The_PAIN (720 posts) - - Show Bio

@kuja9001 said:

Another funfact: Baby Broly never tanked anything.

He did escape Planet Vegeta's explosion right.

#181 Edited by Cardle_grave (458 posts) - - Show Bio

Guys talk to the broly expert right here

broly crushes him for the LOL, his not even a threat

The fact that Gohan who is suppose to be Stronger then kid gohan could be stronger then Majin vegeta and broly 3 shot him smiling

Broly should be SSj3 goku power at the very least

#182 Posted by OverLordArhas (7793 posts) - - Show Bio

Guys talk to the broly expert right here

broly crushes him for the LOL, his not even a threat

The fact that Gohan who is suppose to be Stronger then kid gohan could be stronger then Majin vegeta and broly 3 shot him smiling

Broly should be SSj3 goku power at the very least

By Vegeta's comment during the WMT, teen Gohan is more powerful that Gohan in the Buu Saga before the kai upgrade.

#183 Posted by OverLordArhas (7793 posts) - - Show Bio

Majin Vegeta

I wouldn't mind of this happened though:

What chapter is this?

Canon?

#184 Edited by Rozalia (692 posts) - - Show Bio

In response to OverLordArhas its from a at this point quite large fancomic: http://www.dragonball-multiverse.com/en/chapters.html

Broly in that is stronger then Super Buu with a whole universe absorbed and was able to match Super Vegito who had like 20 years training under his belt in his fused form. Hilariously however he is actually weaker then Bra.

#185 Edited by OverLordArhas (7793 posts) - - Show Bio

@rozalia said:

In response to OverLordArhas its from a at this point quite large fancomic: http://www.dragonball-multiverse.com/en/chapters.html

Broly in that is stronger then Super Buu with a whole universe absorbed and was able to match Super Vegito who had like 20 years training under his belt in his fused form. Hilariously however he is actually weaker then Bra.

Will check it out.

BTW, can female Saiyan turn SSJ there?

#186 Edited by thedoctorissupreme (12 posts) - - Show Bio

with enough time, broly could be stronger then bills

#187 Posted by OverLordArhas (7793 posts) - - Show Bio

with enough time, broly could be stronger then bills

When fighting a Saiyan as powerful as Broly, you should finish immediately, supposed you have the PL to do it, allowing him to heal is a NO NO!

#188 Edited by Rozalia (692 posts) - - Show Bio

@overlordarhas said:

@rozalia said:

In response to OverLordArhas its from a at this point quite large fancomic: http://www.dragonball-multiverse.com/en/chapters.html

Broly in that is stronger then Super Buu with a whole universe absorbed and was able to match Super Vegito who had like 20 years training under his belt in his fused form. Hilariously however he is actually weaker then Bra.

Will check it out.

BTW, can female Saiyan turn SSJ there?

Bra was born with a powerlevel of 13568 so what do you think? Both her and Pan can go SSJ yes.
Comic is very good at giving the girls screentime in quite male dominated universe as even Videl gets to some kick ass.

#189 Edited by thedoctorissupreme (12 posts) - - Show Bio

@thedoctorissupreme said:

with enough time, broly could be stronger then bills

When fighting a Saiyan as powerful as Broly, you should finish immediately, supposed you have the PL to do it, allowing him to heal is a NO NO!

exactly

he could have been the most powerful character in the series

#190 Edited by OverLordArhas (7793 posts) - - Show Bio

@rozalia said:

@overlordarhas said:

@rozalia said:

In response to OverLordArhas its from a at this point quite large fancomic: http://www.dragonball-multiverse.com/en/chapters.html

Broly in that is stronger then Super Buu with a whole universe absorbed and was able to match Super Vegito who had like 20 years training under his belt in his fused form. Hilariously however he is actually weaker then Bra.

Will check it out.

BTW, can female Saiyan turn SSJ there?

Bra was born with a powerlevel of 13568 so what do you think? Both her and Pan can go SSJ.

Wow, that beats Broly's 10,000 LOLZ

But Canon, @reikai or anybody, why do you think that there are no female SSJ?

#191 Posted by Rozalia (692 posts) - - Show Bio

How many female Saiyan characters exist? I count 3.

Fasha from Bardock's can't go super saiyan because she was before the whole SSJ business in the first place.
Bra never fights as Vegeta never trained her due him losing his love for training (and likely her gender).
Pan I believe the explanation for her not attaining the form is she didn't have the incentive or some nonsense.

#192 Posted by OverLordArhas (7793 posts) - - Show Bio

@rozalia said:

How many female Saiyan characters exist? I count 3.

Fasha from Bardock's can't go super saiyan because she was before the whole SSJ business in the first place.

Bra never fights as Vegeta never trained her due him losing his love for training (and likely her gender).

Pan I believe the explanation for her not attaining the form is she didn't have the incentive or some nonsense.

Maybe there is something in the Female Saiyan Physiology that do not allow them to so SSJ?

#193 Edited by reikai (4667 posts) - - Show Bio

Those scans are from Dragonball Multiverse. It's a Fan Comic. Entertaining, but not canon. And the actual reason there were no SSJ Females was;

1. Toriyama didn't write the GT series

2. Toriyama didn't know how he should make the SSJ hair for the girls when doing the character designs on request.

This is corrected with Dragonball Online that allows Female Super Saiyans.

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#194 Posted by OverLordArhas (7793 posts) - - Show Bio

@reikai said:

Those scans are from Dragonball Multiverse. It's a Fan Comic. Entertaining, but not canon. And the actual reason there were no SSJ Females was;

1. Toriyama didn't write the GT series

2. Toriyama didn't know how he should make the SSJ hair for the girls when doing the character designs on request.

This is corrected with Dragonball Online that allows Female Super Saiyans.

So, your saying that SSJ4 is not canon.

I do believe you in No. 2, most of his women design, with specification to hair, there are no, as far as I know, spiky haired female characters. From DB, Chrono Trigger, Dragon Warrior, etc.

#195 Posted by reikai (4667 posts) - - Show Bio

SS4 isn't canon. Toriyama did create the design for SS4, but he didn't write the story. He was working on other projects. The last few DBZ movie specials have at this point cut off GT entirely from his writings and the SSJ God Form exceeds that of SS4 anyway.

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#196 Posted by OverLordArhas (7793 posts) - - Show Bio

@rozalia: @thedoctorissupreme: @reikai:

About the amount of power boost a saiyan can attain if he recovers from a fatal injury:

EX. A saiyan with PL of 9,000 is blasted with an energy blast let say PL 12,000 and he manage to survive and recover. Any 12,000 PL blast will no longer affect him.

If Bardock survived Freeza's Death Ball, so if they face each other again, a Death Ball will be of no problem to him?

#197 Posted by Abocado (666 posts) - - Show Bio

Why are you guys still debating Power Levels?

Majin Vegeta WINS!

@overlordarhas you are the one from KMC right? Follow me please.

#198 Edited by OverLordArhas (7793 posts) - - Show Bio

@abocado said:

Why are you guys still debating Power Levels?

Majin Vegeta WINS!

@overlordarhas you are the one from KMC right? Follow me please.

How did you know?

BTW, We are debating PL to get a better gauge of Broly's.

PS. Add me too. LOLZ

#199 Edited by Abocado (666 posts) - - Show Bio
#200 Posted by OverLordArhas (7793 posts) - - Show Bio

One thing that interest me, anyone in Freeza's level and above are casual planet busters, it could also be debated that Vegeta at the start of the Saiyan Saga could destroy a Planet easily. The amount of Ki control, both Protagonist and Antagonist is amazing, even at the point of losing, they have control.