LSSJ BROLY VS MAJIN VEGETA

Clearly, you need to step off of that high horse you rode in on. Clearly, I never said Vegeta's enhancement meant anything to Goku, only that Goku had the advantage. But, you would have known that. Also, I specifically stated I read most of the Broly and Vegeta arguments. But, clearly, you would have known that, too. I see you've not read much of my post. Clearly.

@xlab3000 said:

Someone who resorts to constant name calling, constant insults, copying arguments from others wholesale, posts videos without pointing out key details, never directly answers difficult questions, doesn't read posts properly requiring constant explaining, puts words in others mouths, doesn't understand what PIS is, dismisses everything that doesn't support their view, and perhaps most pathetic of all is always very quick to post a reply showing their joy at some new posters posting support for Vegeta as they are "sane" and "smart", not like those "Brolytards".

Play chess with you? I've already beaten you many many pages ago. Taking you and arguments apart is no hard task for anyone in this thread. You make the likes of Baron look excellent so as I said before, don't throw stones when you live in a glass house.

@dark_cloud_ said:

I'm not going to respond to anyone's post

Bad form! Here is a reading lessen from me to you. When I say "clearly you've not read much of this thread" its because I believe if you had read the rest most of the thread then you'd have an idea of what Broly's strength is at a minimum (which is stronger then Vegeta) instead of spouting an argument I and others have torn to shreds some half a dozen times now.

@rozalia: you insulted me also. I've beaten you. you keep wanking Broly. non of Broly's defeats were PIS read the damn thread. I don't know what PIS is, you lowballed a ssj4 vegeta and overrated frieza cell and kid buu, GT was PIS Goku saying "oh no he destroyed that city in one attack" and running a roller coaster rail to get away from an enemy was stupid and plot instructed by Toei. I never do constant insults unless you are a troll/wanker. I gave examples of other people's barriers tanking attacks from people who are stronger than them. Gohan Vegeta Goku used barriers in the movies. Vegeta is smarter than Broly that's a fact. the videos do point out key details. dismisses everyones view, I use to think the same way you did about Broly until I watched the videos. Taking you and arguments apart is no hard task for anyone in this thread. my arguments never show contradiction. the daizenshuu does. you never took them apart at all. Gohan was weak the 1st 2 images of him in the Broly movie I posted and Vegeta saying he's nowhere near his old power and getting impatient with gohan fighting Dabura and Goku saying he should know better than that already proves it. Majin Vegeta was stronger than ssj2 teen gohan. a weak mssj gohan had hit lssj Broly 3 times. Broly had got frozen in ice and you can still see the wound he had from Goku's punch disproves Broly had got a zenkai. he wasn't fully healed. at least I have proof to back up my arguments. don't use source books in your argument if they show contradiction. heck I even posted the other thread of Vegeta vs Broly where they had the same debates we did and Vegeta won. you are dumbest people I seen on this thread so far. you think baron looks bad you said super kaioken is stronger than a super saiyan 3. you make dbz fans look bad by making that statement. you make Baron look excellent by making dumb post and wanking Broly. you make Brolytards look excellent. Broly isn't stronger than Vegeta get over it.

This thread has went to hell.

Agreed

And like a couple of us lately have posted. There is no LEGITIMATE way to calculate how strong Broly REALLY should be because his character was DESTINED TO LOSE from the moment he was created.

They could've had Krillin beat him with a spoon if they wanted. The whole point behind DBZ is good prevailing over evil, so any villain is automatically on the proverbial shit list.

That seems a bit ridiculous. Goku was fighting Cell to pretty much a standstill. So to say that Gohan going SSJ2 made him ONE HUNDRED TIMES stronger than Goku would pretty much mean that Gohan could've thumped Cell and obliterated him. Twice as strong seems more reasonable since he was able to manhandle Cell and play with him and still had enough Juice to kill him when he came back after regenerating.

If he were 100x stronger he wouldn't of struggled so much with Cell after he got back, and would've smacked Cell's shot at Vegeta away like a beach ball.

For instance, if Goku were at (this is a random number) 300 mil PL, that would put Cell somewhere around the same ballpark since they were both evenly matched. If Gohan were 100 TIMES that then that would make him at a PL of 30 Billion?! You're telling me that he still had an issue with Cell ,after he came back, with 100x Goku's power?

@xlab3000 said:

I...where do I begin with this block...of mess. How do you do it? As I've taken you apart many times already I'll gladly step up and try to make sense of this mess of a post.
Sadly I wasn't able to catch all 27 sentences as I accidentally lumped 4 of them together as your punctuation is pretty crazy but I've numbered them above so people can follow.

First sentence: Never insulted you. Told Baron he was posting stupidity but I was quite cranky at the time but never directed anything at you.
Second sentence: No you haven't as I've been posting a wealth of evidence that I'd like to say is well structured enough. I even complied the list of arguments in support of Broly for easy viewing pleasure for those new to the thread...you? You keep posting these...things.
Third sentence: None of Broly's defeats were PIS? Nice joke. Also you know damn well I've been posting on this thread from day 1 so I have read this entire thread and don't need to be told to read it.
Forth sentence: So you admit you don't know what PIS is? Then how can you say none of Broly's defeats were PIS? I lowballed a SSJ4 Vegeta? Don't believe I ever referenced a SSJ4 Vegeta at any point so more garbage you've dredged up from the ether. I also apparently overrated Frieza, Cell, and Kid Buu... errh....when? Are you just inventing things to accuse me of at this point? The GT thing you mention is out of nowhere and once again you mention PIS. If you know what it is then why do you say it doesn't exist?
Fifth sentence: "I never insult unless you're a *insert insult*". *Clap* *Clap* *Clap* Nice work on admitting you are doing nothing but constant insults at this point.
Sixth sentence: None of those barriers survived an attack and are no where on the level of Broly's energy shield.
Seventh sentence: Vegeta smarter? In what? Book smarts? Perhaps. Tactically? Both Vegeta and Broly are primal warriors so this notion that Vegeta is a smarter fighter is absurd. Hardly matters as Vegeta is too outclassed in power for any such possible advantage to make a lick of difference.
Eighth sentence: See how when I posted the video that contained the movie I pointed key points in the video so people could zip straight there and didn't have to watch the whole thing? Try that. Also dismissing is the wrong word to use, in fact its the worse one possible.
Ninth sentence: I'm sure you think you're so cleaver repeating what I said back at me.
Tenth sentence: "None of Broly's defeats were PIS!" *later* "I don't know what PIS is!". One contradiction right there.
Eleventh sentence: Yes you as you said in the previous sentence are infallible but an official source of sorts is not.
Twelfth sentence: Took them apart how I am your big bad block right now.
Thirteenth sentence: Been over this many times already and you simply will not learn.
Fourteenth sentence: And? Proves nothing.
Fifteenth sentence: 3 times! I'm shocked, clearly I have to concede defeat now you've brought up this vital evidence...oh wait Broly no sold it all outside the last one which was a sucker punch (well kick).
Sixteenth sentence: Reikai has been the one to bring up the Zenkai, I only took into account when I did that for fun calculation of the efficiency of Broly's energy barrier. Broly needs no Zenkai anyway.
Seventeenth sentence: No he wasn't and still played around with Gohan and was easily overpowering three people at the same time in a power struggle. You're not making your case any stronger here just saying, its having the reverse effect.
Eighteenth sentence: Proof? You seriously believe your evidence of some guy on youtube is truly infallible don't you. Lets forget all those times people tore it apart of course.
Nineteenth sentence: I haven't used source books all that often any way but projecting what other posters have used onto to me is not exactly new for you.
Twentieth sentence: Desperate fetching a thread from a year ago to somehow influence one now. Also many arguments shown here were not stated there.
Twenty-first sentence: Another insult, classy.
Twenty-second sentence: I said it was possibly that level if not stronger. Its anime filler it could very well be. Someone mentioned Goku only used it for second but Goku has been shown against Frieza to be able to maintain it without the aura so thats that.
Twenty-third sentence: Third time now. Don't throw stones.
Twenty-forthsentence:See by trying to reverse that on me you're weakening your own argument. Baron is saying much of the same as you and you with this sentence are basically agreeing with me. Nice *thumbs up*.
Twenty-Fifth sentence: Another insult. Do you see how in this entire point I didn't once mention you as a fan of anything? Makes the ground I stand on quite a lot stronger you'll find.
Twenty-Sixth sentence: A trait I forgot to mention in your list of very negative traits. Admitting some sort of victory like that when you've clearly not held the upper hand throughout this thread only makes you look silly.

Okay, you're going to give me a diminishing read? Awesome job. I concur, it is diminishing! Anyway. It's pathetic that you take one sentence of mine and throw it out of proportionate context, when, clearly, I implied anyone's posts before my own reply was printed. Why should I repeat myself when it's right there in front of you? Does it wiggle your willy when you finally have someone to respond to so negatively? Once again, step off of your high horse. You constantly portray yourself as someone who feels others are an ant compared to your boot. News flash, buddy. You're no one important, so whatever argument you feel you've "torn apart" is hogwash and just your ego getting in the way of your so-called 'proven facts.' You want your facts to be proven? Ask Akira Toriyama to conclude his theory of Broly. Otherwise, you have no way to 'prove' that Broly wins when there is actual proof of why Majin Vegeta wins. Lay off the nuts, bro-slice.

And just to squash the NON-CANON Super Kaio-ken.

SSJ is 50 time the base

SSJ2 is 2 times SSJ, or 100 times the base

SSJ3 is 4 times SSJ2, or 400 times the base

So, for example, if a base PL is equal to 1,000,000. And you proceeded to transform to each level it would play out as follows.
SSJ = 50 x 1,000,000 = 50,000,000

SSJ2 = 2 x 50,000,000 = 100,000,000

SSJ3 = 4 x 100,000,000 = 400,000,000

Kaio-ken is a unique technique that multiplies the users power at the users will. So even though this was used non-canon it would let Goku multiply SSJ by up to 20 times. Far more than just going SSJ2 or SSJ3 would increase his power.

SSJ2 = 2 x SSJ

SSJ3 = 8 x SSJ

Super Kaio-ken = (Theoretically) 20 x SSJ

Gohan had hit him 3 times. believing a guy on youtube. he does have evidence to back up his answer and disprove some statements in sourcebooks. just look at the naruto databook for example amaterasu hot like the sun and haku light speed thse were disproved by fans. I was being sarcastic about me not knowing what PIS is if you read the whole sentence I said GT was PIS. some of the arguments were stated there. you were basically saying that Baron and I looked bad based on the arguments we presented. your arguments have been dunked you kept asking the same questions and you're telling others they are wrong because you want Broly to win. you keep saying his defeat was PIS and he keeps toying with them. his defeats were not PIS I gave you examples of there peoples barriers tanking attacks from people with a higher power level. Goku taking the energy from other saiyans proves that power levels are unreliable. if you are saying that because of power levels then you are clearly wrong. you are the throwing stones here by making false claims and telling people they are wrong because you want Broly to win. base on everything you said in the thread you make yourself look like a brolytard. I'm very nice to users ask the mods. everyone has negative traits so don't try that bs with me. you're the one being silly. you said Broly easily beats majin vegeta and his barrier can tank any attack like he's the strongest person in dbz which he is not. you said that he was stronger than kid buu(referenced with broly's power level is 1.4 billion from v-jump) Kid Buu has shown better feats then Broly, and SSJ2 Vegeta has took more of a beating from Kid Buu then Broly. Majin Vegeta beats Broly. like I said my arguments don't have contradictions. you clearly don't know what I mean. I said if a canon source contradicts itself then it's not unreliable. I had let the discussion go and you kept on with it. I'm going to let a mod deal with you.

I summon you @deranged_midget

I agree

@dark_cloud_:

To be fair @rozalia: has posted better arguments than most other people in this thread.

And there is no "Actual proof" of Vegeta winning. Actual proof would be if they already happened to make a movie just for this and Vegeta won it, but there isn't one.

Things people have said that would lead one to BELIEVE Vegeta would win haven't been very solid. What does Vegeta have that would beat Broly? They are both Saiyan heritage. They've both fought since they were born and know how to fight. They're both vicious arrogant people. Majin form about = SSJ2 form so he's only twice as strong as SSJ, the form in which he got dominated in (give a little due to his increase in base due to training). Gohan could transform in the First Movie so both he and his father, Goku, had gotten MSSJ forms, in which they along with the others got dominated in.

I guess this would be the most logical answer FOR Broly.

Goku in the First movie was MSSJ. He fought Cell at MSSJ and stalemated with Cell. He then made Gohan, who was also MSSJ, fight Cell. Cell had the advantage only due to Gohan not wanting to fight really, so they were for the most part even in PL as well. Gohan had to break over into SSJ2 to defeat Cell. He then manhandled Cell who is around the PL of a MSSJ, BUT still took quite a bit of damage from some of Cell's attacks as well. Broly devastated not only 1, but 2 MSSJ alongside 2 Ascended SSJ and a Super Namek all within the same fight without any rest while taking next to ZERO DAMAGE without using his barrier. This alone during the First Movie would put him at a PL a bit above the PL of Gohan SSJ2 vs Cell.

This alongside the awesomeness that is his LSSJ unique Bubble Barrier would give him plenty of edge to beat Vegeta.

This isn't the world of Dragonball Manga or Anime or Movies where the Villain HAS to and WILL lose. Broly isn't NOT going to use his shield against Vegeta, and Vegeta has no random PIS or Plot Device in order to put Broly down like they use in the Manga/Anime/Movies when it comes time for the show to end and the Villain to lose.

@xlab3000:

The barriers you give examples of (Gohan and Vegeta) were ones where they had to stand and hold their arms out and concentrate to hold it. And those barriers exhausted the user and Gohan's didn't even hold up. Gohan being fresh to the fight and at full power. Not to mention the hit that Gohan took was the same exact freaking blast that Trunks supposed "barrier" stopped, and Gohan's didn't stop the one he was shielding. How is that NOT PIS?!?!?!?! Not only is that NOT a barrier (for obvious reasons) that Trunks throws, but he is normal form and completely exhausted and throws out the tiniest of Ki balls which stops multiple shots of Broly's? To say this is anything BUT a Plot Device is beyond idiotic.

Not to mention that part has nothing to do with whether Broly can beat Vegeta. What does matter is how strong the 3 people were that shot the Kamehameha at him that hit him. Taking a blast from 2 SSJ2's and a SSJ that are all combined into one giant blast is what WOULD matter. (Funny how this beats Broly but nearly every other villain, except Cell, has to die by Spirit Bombs using the combined energy of a crazy amount of people)

So that brings up another argument people made about them NOT being SSJ2. Well @rozalia brought up a very good point, why wouldn't they be SSJ2 if they knew how? If I had to beat someone up who was stronger than me I'm pretty sure I'd be as strong as I could possibly make myself in order to give me the best chance to win. Another portion in the movies that was crappy writing along with the Trunks "BARRIER".

So then now Gohan was weak in that movie since Vegeta said he was in the show? Vegeta and Goku both stated how Gohan's lack of practice had led him to lose his fighting sense. This doesn't mean he lost an INCREDIBLE amount of POWER. When Gohan went SSJ2 to fight Cell he had just spent YEARS training with his dad in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber, mastering his fighting prowess. He lost this due to him focusing on school and not training. Yet a counterside to this is how much STRONGER Goku had become from spending so much time training in Other World. The guy showed us he had learned SSJ3 around this time, so just imagine how much his base had increased. So here is Goku, someone who is equal to strength as Majin Vegeta, and he couldn't beat Broly without Gohan, Goten, and a random distraction by Trunks.

Not to mention some of you are acting like as if Broly and Vegeta are gonna fight half cocked and injured.

Broly fresh and fully healed vs Majin Vegeta fresh and fully healed. One on one, no writers to make random story holes and plots. Broly would win.

Someone can have a better argument, but that does not mean that said argument is a rational one. I won't make any personal attacks toward him, but he is being watched for his mistreatment of members currently here and elsewhere. He should know that he needs to be civil and respectful if he feels he deserves to retain credibility.

@icemanpure: He didn't train for seven years. You aren't retaining that same level of power and skill by sitting around and studying. did you even see the images I posted. Gohan made a barrier against Broly in the movie. those were regular energy blast Broly were shooting to increase the eraser cannon. they weren't ssj2 look at the damn hair and stop bringing up the same arguments that were presented in the thread. it doesn't if Trunks was exhausted it still doesn't disprove my argument about people's barriers tanking attacks from people who are stronger than them period. it was a smoke barrier that formed. it wasn't a plot device get over it. just watch the video about Gohan not being ssj2 it addressed Rozalia's post about Gohan being a ssj2. Goku wasn't a ssj2 neither he had 4 bangs not 3. Broly lost to 3 ssj and a normal saiyan. if Broly was that strong he would've tanked the attack instead of putting up a barrier to survive. unless you provide arguments that don't have contradiction let me know. Majin Buu took Gohan out with 2 hits and barely did damage to him at all. Majin Vegeta had laid more hits, did more damage on Majin Buu. And Majin Vegeta had tank more hits then Gohan. I'm surprised the stupidity of this thread has survived this long. Majin Vegeta beats Broly.

Something tells me this thread will soon be locked.

I can now understand why "DBZ vs Anything" threads were banned. This was going to happen at one point or another. This wasn't a discussion in any way, there was no interest in figuring anything out. People saw the title of this battle, picked a side, and started swinging for the fences. I'm not sure if it happened, most likely not, but at no point in this battle did either side concede a point to the other.

Vegeta fans discarded any information off as unusable, only the one that would give Broly an edge. Broly fans could only scratch their heads and start making loose connections in order to try and reason with the opposing side. This was basically a battle of canon vs. non-canon. Vegeta supporters are never going to back down because they know their canon information will eventually cast a shadow over Broly's discarded non-canon one. Broly supporters won't back down because of the nature of Broly.

There will be no winner here, no one is trying to get to a fair truth, this is simply a tug of war without a rope, it's just both sides saying "No, we win because we win." No one is actually interested or willing to accept anything said by either side, this is as pointless as a debate could get.

Either start agreeing on things, or just let this thing die out already. Feel free to ignore this however and keep stating the same points for the next 17 pages.

and i will flag you for writing BS all over this thread

based on what was goku around ssj2 level after he he absorbed the power from the Z fighters?goku couldn't even turn ssj2 let alone being on the same level with the most powerfull ssj2

even after absorbing their power goku was still a ssj1 level being and he beat broly easy as hell

and as far as broly vs ssj2 gohan goes a weak gohan inflicted damage even in base form to LSSJ broly something he can't do agains a more powerfull ssj2 like vegeta or goku

majin vegeta is alot stronger than ssj2 adult gohan and he would beat broly easy as hell

How has this topic gone on for so long? It's a spite thread in Vegeta's favor.

@dark_cloud_ said:

Right because I'm totally the one throwing constant insults about. My attitude towards the likes of xlab3000 could be said to be rude but its not offensive and far better then his attitude towards me.

Well you did the same. You took that sentence which I'm sure you knew what I meant to give me some run down that I didn't read your post when throughout this whole thread I have shown I have read practically every response as I've responded to most things. So please don't throw stones.

As for the rest of what you said, it applies back to you as I'm sure you know so I don't see why you think even worth mentioning. Stop being on an ego trip.

Gohan had hit him 3 times. believing a guy on youtube. he does have evidence to back up his answer and disprove some statements in sourcebooks. just look at the naruto databook for example amaterasu hot like the sun and haku light speed thse were disproved by fans. I was being sarcastic about me not knowing what PIS is if you read the whole sentence I said GT was PIS. some of the arguments were stated there. you were basically saying that Baron and I looked bad based on the arguments we presented. your arguments have been dunked you kept asking the same questions and you're telling others they are wrong because you want Broly to win. you keep saying his defeat was PIS and he keeps toying with them. his defeats were not PIS I gave you examples of there peoples barriers tanking attacks from people with a higher power level. Goku taking the energy from other saiyans proves that power levels are unreliable. if you are saying that because of power levels then you are clearly wrong. you are the throwing stones here by making false claims and telling people they are wrong because you want Broly to win. base on everything you said in the thread you make yourself look like a brolytard. I'm very nice to users ask the mods. everyone has negative traits so don't try that bs with me. you're the one being silly. you said Broly easily beats majin vegeta and his barrier can tank any attack like he's the strongest person in dbz which he is not. you said that he was stronger than kid buu(referenced with broly's power level is 1.4 billion from v-jump) Kid Buu has shown better feats then Broly, and SSJ2 Vegeta has took more of a beating from Kid Buu then Broly. Majin Vegeta beats Broly. like I said my arguments don't have contradictions. you clearly don't know what I mean. I said if a canon source contradicts itself then it's not unreliable. I had let the discussion go and you kept on with it. I'm going to let a mod deal with you.

There really is no point is there. I've gone over all these things with you and it simply makes no jot of difference. You took perhaps three or so sentences and responded to them with this big bad block while dismissing everything else. Then you throw some insults for good measure and the "scary" thought that I've got a mod coming for me. Were they to read all the constant insults you've thrown in every other post I know who''d be getting modded.

@rozalia: I don't diminish everything else, I'm getting tired of people bringing up the same arguments that were debunked in the past and not coming up with new arguments. People say oh no it's a plot device when they don't try to figure it out. if it doesn't make sense then it's a plot device.

Everyone get over it. Broly is far inferior to Majin Vegeta it's fact and anyone who says otherwise is clearly just a Broly Fanboy...

@morpheus_@god_spawn@vance_astroCan one of you lock this thread? It's going too far when the fight is clearly one-sided.

I'll lock it for one, spite. Two, it looks like it is gonna diminish into a flame war.