LSSJ BROLY VS MAJIN VEGETA

what proof?

you said a kamehameha shot by 2 ssj1 = a kamehameha shot by 1 ssj2 and i just proved that it doesn't

the combined blast of 2 ssj1 level beings(piccolo and gohan) didn't even hurt a ssj1 level being(broly) so what makes you think that the kamehameha shot by ssj1 gohan and ssj1 goku had the power of a kamehameha shot by 1 ssj2?

if that is the logic then the combined blast from piccolo and gohan should also had the power of a ssj2 but it didn't because it didn't even moved broly who was a ssj1 level being.

a kamehameha shot by 1 ssj2 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>a kamehameha shot by 2 ssj1

Majin Vegeta, SSJ2 Goku and Gohan did not 100% the time have lightning in each picture in the manga. Gohan did not have always lightning for Dabura, nor with Cell Super Saiyan 2 is only 2x the power level for minimum power. "Official" and "what it should be" are very different for saiyan power level increases over each level to the next. Piccolo killed Radditz who was 3 times his power level. So rule in DBZ: you can kill someone 3x as powerful. So, ask the question to yourselves, how much stronger does Broly need to have over Gohan to not take harm at all? The answer is much more than 3x as powerful.

Goku SSJ1 official power level is 150 million. Official rating for SSJ2 is a super saiyan power level multipled by 2.

SSJ2 Gokus minimum power level can only be 300 million.

SSJ3 is 4 multiplied by SSJ2. Minimum power level a SSJ3 can hold is 1.2 billion. This means that SSJ2 can handle a power level of 300 million - 1.2 Billion. Safe to say Cell Games Gohan and Majin Vegeta/SSJ2 Goku are very high level, maybe double the strength of Gohan in the buu saga, but on par with Gohan during cell games. Gohan lost more than50%!!!! power from Cell to Buu and I will say he is just hardly a super saiyan 2 with a power level of 300 million or maybe a bit more. This is fair to me, he is around half the power of Majin Vegeta estimated!!! That is significant. With this, even though Movie 10 is non canonical, you can still use it to see Gohans power in movie 10 since it "technically" is the same time period. Gohan low level 300,000,000 power level or so cannot harm Broly at all. For he is more than 3x as powerful, seems much more. I believe Goku was SSJ2 as well, but if not I can show calculation for both.

SSJ2 Gohan minimum power level of 300,000,000. But, in DBZ you can kill someone 3x a powerful as you and make energy blast 3x your power level. Gohans Kamehameha in movie 10 = 900 million minimum.

Gotens power level minimum is 150,000,000. Minimum power level of his kamehameha is 450 million

SSJ1 Goku the same ( Minimums, remember ) 450 million ( Certainly more than goten, but how much is not known )

The final Blast Kamehameha combined had a power level of 900 million + 900 million or 1.8 billion. Look at how the numbers added up perfectly. For this reason, I now know Goku was only SSJ1 in end of movie to for perfect 900+900 million number factors. This means that Brolys power level is more than 3 billion because this final attack had no damage to him AT ALL. Brolys shield holds all the way to the star, then he explodes from it. Broly is much more than 3 times as powerful, no question.

Majin Vegeta = dust

gohan didn't have lighting at all agains dabura and agains majin buu because he was not ssj2 he said it himself

broly is on a weak ssj2 level and vegeta is far beyond this level

majin vegeta wins easy

and the final kamehameha was shot by 3 ssj1 which is far bellow the power of a ssj2

look at this example because it also apllies on the kamehameha thing

the combined blast of 2 ssj1 level beings(piccolo and gohan) didn't even hurt a ssj1 level being(broly) so what makes you think that the kamehameha shot by ssj1 gohan and ssj1 goku had the power of a kamehameha shot by 1 ssj2?

if that is the logic then the combined blast from piccolo and gohan should also had the power of a ssj2 but it didn't because it didn't even moved broly who was a ssj1 level being.

a kamehameha shot by 1 ssj2 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>a kamehameha shot by 2 ssj1

Baron, what do you not understand about the minimum power levels increases for each saiyan level, I explained it pages ago, then this other dude just explained it and he has trouble speaking english, yet he gets it and you dont? ITS A BARE MINIMUM POWER LEVEL SETUP. SSJ2 can hold up to 6 times the power, and generate 18x the energy of the power level of a standard super saiyan 1.

7 Years or so later, 3 super saiyans can somehow generate more power than 5 combined. You sir, are seriously amazing at math. *Slow clap* Your logic is astoundingly brilliant.

I gave you multiple chances to think your argument through. Do you understand why argument is weak. You're trying to find anything that relates to the family kahamaha, so you go to Piccolo and Gohan firing a blast at Broly in hopes that it can pass to prove a point when it clearly does not. It's completely irrelevant.

First we're comparing a SS2 and SS1. Broly isn't either of them, his form is separate. Second, Piccolo and Gohan were two of the weakest characters in that whole fight. And I asked you what kind of blast did they fire because I'm at work and don't have time to pull it up. But was it just a generic blast? A generic blast coming from a Namek and a SS1 teenager no where close to Trunks, Vegeta and Goku in strength?

How is this relevant to anything? What point does it prove?

SS2 is two times in power of SS1. Using Piccolo and Gohan against Broly has no relation or comparison in analyzing a power struggle with this point.

You would blindly prove a point if Broly was a normal Super Saiyan 2 and beat out the family Kamahamaha. But no, your analysis is of a weak teenage Gohan and a Namek against a Saiyan with a completely different form.

gohan never said that?

then how you translate the fact that gohan said when buu was resurrected that he has a change at long as he unlease his full power?

and he was already ssj1 when he made that statement

gohan at this point was the strongest out of them all at this do you even know what the hell are you writing?

@baron2011: I'm obviously talking about what you were writing.

When Piccolo and Gohan blasted Broly. Unless if Gohan went SS2 while fighting Broly.

Gohan at SS1 was NOT the strongest out of all of them. And with the combination of Piccolo, your argument proves nothing and is still irrelevant.

This logic makes me shiver with its sheer brilliance.

Here is the logic in a simple way:

-Someone with 3x less the power level can still kill that person. Ie a power level of 10 can kill a power level of 30. This is undeniable and proven. Which makes Brolys power level far beyond 450,000,000. Since SSJ1 Goku is around 150,000,000 officially.

-5 super saiyans combined couldn't kill Broly. Their power level combined was at minimum 750,000,000 or so in the first movie.

-Broly probably got a zenkai, hes a saiyan, so why wouldnt he. He raged out for 7 years. His anger level must have been extreme.

-Broly was not at all powered up or angry in either movie. He was laughing and it was clear his potential was not reached. He still lost because he is an idiot, thats his character, a giant powered up idiot.

Your logic: -3 super saiyan 1s somehow were strong enough to handle him, even after all that happened in the past when Broly was weaker and 5 of them couldnt do it.

So a plot point brought up in the manga that came later applies to a non cannon movie that came before? Come on baron2011 I'm still waiting for your answer.

Broly Confronting and Discrediting the Lies already debunks Broly's power/hype and some daizenshuu claims. Base Gohan had kicked a SSJ Broly and SSJ Gohan had kicked LSSJ Broly. just look at Super Buu vs Vegito. he was able hit SSJ Vegito and he got beat by Base Vegito. just look at Goku and Vegeta fight Super Buu Mystic Gohan SSJ3 Gotenks and Piccolo(non-factor). Goku and Vegeta laid hits on them even though they were stronger. Majin Vegeta was stronger than Movie 10 Gohan. Majin Vegeta is faster, a better combatant and smarter than Broly. I don't know about strength.

- I say that Broly wins with ease.

Broly laughing manically while decimating his surrounding that his power is unbound, and as to Broly's full potential, no one knows, he not fought a single individual more powerful than himself like Goku did.

@cardle_grave: This are not actual movie images. How can yiu say that they are official?

@the_pain said:

@cardle_grave: This are not actual movie images. How can yiu say that they are official?

Poster Pictures?

Number 3 looks edited.

Majin Vegeta all the way :faster,stronger,more powerful and maybe more durable.Even Ssj2 Gohan from the Cell games could beat him (IMO)

Broly in the 2nd movie was unable to catch Gohan when he went to the lava and Gohan was able to break Broly's hold...there wasn't a huge gap in power between the two of them. This Gohan (who struggle with a Cell level being:Dabra) is weaker than "kid" Gohan (who curbstomp a Cell level being:Cell) who is weaker than Majin Vegeta

@parallax_hal_jordan said:

Oh boy. You could at least read the page you're posting on if you're not going to read the rest of the thread. If you did you'd avoid this embarrassing post.

The LAVA Dip was more impressive than breaking a hold.

@the_pain said:

The sad thing is Broly was distracted and holding him with only one arm at the time, it was a sucker punch. Not only that but while in the first shot Broly is holding him with that one arm somewhat, in the second shot where the kick happens Broly is now suddenly barely holding Gohan at all. Seriously check the movie out and pay attention to the arm, Gohan body when the kick happens is only still held by Broly because his back is bent over Broly's massive arm not because Broly has him grabbed. I can't find a picture of it though.

Though I just noticed that villains sure love to bearhug Gohan.

15 pages later... and the ignorance is still blossoming.

@thesuperhuman:

Please refrain from statements that tend to insult others.

I think trying to use feats and events from the movies isn't fair when concerning a "Villain". The movies and series were meant for the good guys to prevail. It doesn't matter how much "Stronger" the villain is made out to be or is, it will always be WRITTEN for Good to win.

This is what produces PIS or Plot devices. The writers have to seemingly come up with a way for the "UBER STRONG BAD GUY" to lose.

Broly in the first movie was shown to be seemingly a God to our band of heroes, enough so to leave Vegeta wimpering like a baby majority of the fight. Broly bullied them the entire movie to make the viewers think he was this UNSTOPPABLE being, and for us to think our band of heroes had NO CHANCE of beating him...UNTIL Goku manages to get everyone (who've been beaten half to death) to give him their remaining power (and spent 10 minutes convincing Vegeta he HAD to have his power to do it, sureeeee that last person was JUSTTTT enough to make him strong enough) in order to defeat Broly. Crazy how he's asking them for it and gets everyone except Vegeta's and is still getting manhandled by Broly.. makes so much sense right?! I guess one could assume he was just suppressing all his built up energy until the moment he had enough to where he thought he could beat Broly. He then proceeds to ONE HIT KO BROLY in the gut. One hit KO? After absorbing 4 other people's energy? Trunks, Piccolo, Gohan, and Vegeta really gave him THAT much power? After Broly had been fighting them all and they couldn't make a dent in him. Crazy, but this one was A LOT more believable than the 2nd movie. Their power multiplied in Goku and he unleashed it in one big blast. Sounds like how it typically works in the Anime, everyone gets beat up until some crazy uber EVERYONE LEND ME YOUR ENERGY blast gets built up and finishes the bad guy.

That's the way the show and movies work. BAD GUYS LOSE!. No matter how strong. I like Vegeta, he's my favorite character, but ONE on ONE versus Broly even as Majin Vegeta he stands no real chance outside of the world of WRITING THE STORY SO BAD GUYS LOSE. If it were story driven, then yes, Vegeta would win, but realistically Broly should win.

The 2nd Broly movie was an abomination in terms of writing the ending and pretty much the whole movie. So after 7 years of being in hibernation, he's still got what seems to be a rash on his chest from where he got punched? So is it healed or not? Gohan barriers everyone from one of his blasts, which still injures them ALL even though Gohan is fresh and focusing his barrier to cover everyone. Yet later in the movie one little Ki blast from KID TRUNKS who's probably got 0.01% left in his tank is enough to block Broly's shot from increasing his own ball?! And then a PUFF of smoke blocks several more of his shots? Wtf? So then they break through his ball with the Kamehameha beam and it hits him causing a hole near his heart to rupture. So what you're implying that this hole is where he was stabbed as a child? And it just so happens to explode when he's hit with the Kamehameha? Makes zero sense. Then he proceeds to disintegrate as he flies into the sun. Yayyyy heroes win due to random PIS to where heroes can win!!!

I enjoy a lot of villains in the DB universe. Broly, Cooler, and Kid Buu are my favorite villains, alongside Vegeta who is by definition an Antihero.

Yet sadly they will always be looked down upon in terms of how strong they REALLY are, because in the world of writing a story, they are meant to fall..

Sorry this is long but I just read through 15 pages of people arguing back and forth over something that can't REALLY be defined using feats and stuff for villains when they lose in the story because it is WRITTEN that way.

I made the Thread so I should not say who win, but good write up. Reasonable and well explained.

Welcome to the VINE.

There was nothing insulting about my statement. Try not to cause drama.

How would you feel if somebody called you ignorant?

@overlordarhas

Thanks, I'm really enjoying reading and learning from a lot of the threads on here.

And I could also go on and on about how many loopholes are in the writing for the movies but a lot of people have covered those bases.

One of the main ones I see people arguing about is whether or not Gohan and Goku are SSJ2 during the beam.

Regardless one way or the other, as a viewer and a fan and someone with Common Sense you would think that Gohan and Goku* who know how to go SSJ2 WOULD if it were the fate of Earth at stake.

*Goku SSJ2 - Some would debate that he wouldn't have this technique at the time of the movie (another issue I have with the movies, WHERE IN THE HELL DO THEY ALL FIT IN THE TIMELINE OF THE ANIME, some make no sense in that regard). In my opinion Goku has been working on the newest form, SSJ3 which he reveals after having to fight Buu finally. So there is no doubt in my mind that he would clearly have MASTERED SSJ2 when he had started to ascend to SSJ3 while training in Otherworld in the anime.

Honestly the movies irritate me in regards to fitting within the time of the anime. I know they're non-canon but they are based from the anime. So when things don't tie up decently it burns me.

@rozalia said:

Did you notice that the villains hugging face is similar. :)

Cell and the other guy must like little boys.

Sorry, I will correct myself, those are manly hug.

@icemanpure: I agree with you on the SSJ2 subject plus Goku's base level must have increase dramatically since all that he is doing in the after life is training.

None of that is actually relevant, because in one way or another, we're all ignorant. My statement was in-general, and wasn't directed at anyone. You only replied to it negatively because you felt offended at something that wasn't there. Thus, you're trying to cause drama over it. You best bet is to drop it.

Ok, dropping it. :)

@overlordarhas: Good move.

@abocado:

Thanks

@thesuperhuman said:

I can debate, I choose not to. I choose to say who I believe wins and leave it at that. Whether someone responds to my posts and "demands" or "asks" for proof, is my choice whether or not I oblige. In no way, shape or form, does that say I can't debate, dis/prove, or can't contribute anything. What I am "basically saying," is, I don't care to debate. If it's not something I want to debate, I won't debate it. But continuously pointing out my "flaws" in this particular instance, doesn't change a damn thing.

Like many others do, I stick around to read and laugh at the miserable excuse for a debate, when I know that my choice is set in stone and I don't need to involve myself anymore than that.

For someone who "leaves it at that" you do seem to like posting in this thread after your initial posts giving us such gems such as the above.

*Shakes head*

Hey guess what baron2011. So a plot point brought up in the manga that came later applies to a non cannon movie that came before?

I'm not dropping the question, confirm your stupidity by answering it how I know you will. You have to answer it if you want to keep using that dis-proven 'Gohan is weaker' argument. I'm aware you've responded to it but you didn't quite answer the question really and misdirected it. So come on now. So a plot point brought up in the manga that came later applies to a non cannon movie that came before?

Answer it and annihilate any credibility you have left to some people in this thread.

first of all we should stop insult each other because we are civilized people and we don't need to throw bad words around here to make our point

and now to answer you question

even though the movie is non cannon,looking in the manga and place the movie somewere between 2 sagas is the only way you can determine where the movie characters rank in power in the dbz universe

EX:

• that is why we know why goku in base form put up a fight better fight agains cooler than agains frieza because we look in the manga and we know that goku trained and became alot stronger since his fight with frieza
• that is why we know that in movie 8 broly fought the z fighters after they trained in the hyperbolic time chmaber and not before because we look in the manga and we see that gohan can go ssj and that means the movie 8 takes place after they trained in hyperbolic time chmaber because gohan cold not go ssj before training in the chamber

Again I state that the Movie came out before the notion of Gohan being weak was created. If you look at canon like you just said then Gohan being weaker is impossible as the notion did not exist in canon at the time.
You don't seem to comprehend this simple fact.

Look, Vegeta is beaten and crying in a corner and Brolly is too busy with work at the office to keep pretending to listen to this BS. They have movies coming out and Nappa won't leave his film project "Citizen Nappa" to pick up the slack. With Vegeta crying about being a loser, Brolly is the only one who can keep Goku on the ball and working for the next movie.

Let's tone down the hostility in here guys. If you can't debate without insulting each other, I'll be forced to lock this thread so keep it respectful.

@rozalia said:

I beg your pardon?"embarrasing post"? I'm not answering to anyone,i'm just giving my opinion about this fight...i didn't know that i needed your permission to do such thing

I said (to me) whom would win and why,there's no need to be offensive...

And when i said "Gohan was able to break Broly's hold" i wasn't refering when he was holding him with 1 hand,but when he was doing it with both arms,right before Gohan were to the lava,it's pretty clear that Broly couldn't keep Gohan in his grip

@parallax_hal_jordan: You should realize that Movie 9 is Non-canon to both the series and even to the Brolly movies. And Bojack isn't even stronger than Cell. You're taking things out of context with the images, like the fact Gohan's strength kept getting sapped by his goons so he could smack him around.

Bojack is a coward and a sadist. Proven by the fact he used Zangya as a distraction and killed her once Gohan went SS2. None of which even matters as it doesn't connect with the Brolly trilogy.

@reikai said:

I didn't post those images dude...what are your talking about?

@parallax_hal_jordan: For me it's not a matter of who did, but the context of them. Also, the "hold" on Gohan wasn't broken through Gohan being stronger. It's called martial arts. He also didn't break the grip, just made Brolly lose focus for a moment when Gohan flipped himself back and kneed him in the face. A move that still didn't even hurt him.

Brolly was also just fooling around with him. The idea that Vegeta is faster and stronger has long been put to rest as being completely untrue. Brolly is a psychopath, he toys with his victims. Just as he did in both movies. Brolly can dodge them easily if he chose to, but has no need to since their attacks couldn't hurt him until a Plot-Device was introduced. Something that Vegeta does not possess.

I can concede that maybe Goku wasn't SS2 but the video makes a whole lot of assumptions trying to discredit Gohan being SS2. Daizenshu clearly shows us it's SS2 from the concept designs. There's no getting around it. The movie is likely prior to the World Tournament anyway so his hair growing argument need not apply.

The problem with the "sped up galaxy" argument is that those stars must be moving naturally at millions of times light speed for that to be true. It takes millions of years for noticeable movement in a galaxy. A full rotation is a few hundred million years.

So unless you believe Broly is a million years old, the sped up time frame for the galaxy theory doesn't make sense.

@reikai said:

Then why you said tome "you should realize that movie 9 isn't canon and Bojack isn't stronger than Cell"?I never said anything that can lead you to believe that i think something like that...

Then why you said to me that i'm taking things out of context with the images?You're accusing me of something i never did

I'm not implying that Gohan is stronger than Broly,but strong enough to make Broly exert himself,and yet couldn't keep him in his grip...nothing more

Broly couldn't match Gohan's speed,maybe with time he could catch him,but there should be more difference in power to do so in an instant (like imperfect Cell vs Nº16,Freezer 2nd form vs Gohan,Freezer 3rd form vs Piccolo,etc,they can match and surpass the opponent speed in an instant,and Broly couldn't)

Broly is stronger than Gohan,but there's not a huge gap in power (when i say "huge" i mean 2x,3x,4x or more) between them

it was stated and confirmed that adult gohan is alot weaker that kid gohan and that means that in every movie adult gohan appears he is alot weaker than when he was a kid

it doesn't matter that the movie came out first because in that movie played adult gohan,the same gohan who was confirmed as to be alot weaker than kid gohan

is simple as that

@misterguyman: It do make sense. We are not talking about how old Broly was. We are talking about how they speed up the galaxy thing for the viewers at home (us). Broly was destroying the south galaxy ever since he was kid. The movie take place in the south galaxy. So they speed it up to where they are at now. Because Broly would have destroy the south galaxy if he is not stop. Plus you not count Broly speed nor did you count how much he could destroy in a single blast. I mean, come on they speed it up in thirteen sec of the video just to show an estimate of how powerful Broly is. Sayian age slowly than human. It is not a theory.

Plus Goku made those stars look slow when he teleportation to the south galaxy.

The point is that for the galaxy to be spinning that fast, the galaxy's speed must be sped up a few hundred million years in a few seconds. If you assume that it's sped up over a few decades which is about how old Broly is then you're saying that all those stars instead are traveling several millions times light speed.

Simply put, assuming that the clip is sped up violates any number of physical laws.

@misterguyman:

The issue there is applying Real World physics to a Fictional universe and claiming that all galaxies must move at the same rate as our own that we can indicate. Something that doesn't need to be true at all within fiction. So, there are only 2 answers for that;

A) The galaxy is moving exactly as it should in a Fictional setting within Real Time which makes all arguments about it moot.

or

B) The Camera is what is spinning, not the galaxy, which still renders all arguments pertaining to it moot.

And still, King Kai reacted to the destruction immediately, not just noticing it bit by bit over many years. The Narrator stated what happened just before King Kai did, neither of whom state or even suggest it occurred over a long period of time.

And for the people who argue about Brolly's "flashback" scene where he destroys cities and worlds, in none of them does Paragus nor Brolly nor the Narrator state that those events occurring within the Southern Galaxy. As far as anyone is concerned, they could've just as well happened in the East and West galaxies, and no one can prove differently.

@parallax_hal_jordan: All your arguments with their all sound the same. I'm just getting everything out of the way at once. Also you're talking about Transformations at that point when comparing, which means nothing. Gohan went SS2 to contend with Brolly, who went LSSJ so he could continue to screw around with and torture Gohan.

Already evidenced in Movie 8 with Piccolo and Goku attacking Brolly at the same time, he was effortlessly evading and blocking them, before slapping them away and tanking a combined blast from Trunks and Gohan. He's already faster than them. And he doesn't even need to be.

Once again, with Gohan, already shown Gohan doesn't compare to Brolly in strength as his first blow was straight to the face and did nothing to Brolly. Gohan's escape from that hold had little to do with his strength and more to do with his skill as a fighter. Gohan outpacing him was entirely for show, and that one exertion of his power to escape Brolly was enough to exhaust him since Gohan passed out on a rock and was nearly swallowed by the rising lava had Krillin not saved him.

Even reverted, Brolly continued to hold himself back so he wouldn't kill Gohan, wanting to torture and torment him, make him suffer for as long as he could. It's more than clear that Base Gohan would be killed with a finger flick from Brolly had he wanted to end it.

And, really, there is a huge gap in power. Brolly is still the only galaxy buster in the series. SS2 Gohan would only be counted as a solar system buster. Further evidenced by the fact that help from Goten and Goku still wasn't enough to beat out Brolly in sheer power and everything he did was to make them suffer in despair and experience a slow, agonizing death as his attack grew ever closer and closer to destroying them all an the planet.