#1 Posted by shroudofsorrow (3163 posts) - - Show Bio

It is the events of the LotF novel series. Mara Jade is in the place where she fought and died against Darth Caedus. Only it is not Caedus who takes her on but a female rattataki wielding a pair of red curve-hilted lightsabers. Can Mara fare better against Ventress than she did against Caedus?

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#2 Posted by JediXMan (30618 posts) - - Show Bio

Mara.

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#3 Posted by shroudofsorrow (3163 posts) - - Show Bio

@JediXMan: Well, that answers my question. Truth be told I am leaning towards Mara as well.

#4 Posted by HigorM (3839 posts) - - Show Bio

@shroudofsorrow: Mara feats?

Didn´t Asajj almost killed Obi-Wan ?

#5 Posted by guttridgeb (4832 posts) - - Show Bio

Mara. Asajj isn't consistantly any good.

#6 Posted by ShootingNova (17199 posts) - - Show Bio

@guttridgeb said:

Mara. Asajj isn't consistantly any good.

Umm.... yes, she is. Consistently giving Anakin and Obi-Wan trouble, and even stalemating Obi-Wan once, is good. I know TCW Grievous isn't that great either but Ventress did defeat him once too.

#7 Posted by guttridgeb (4832 posts) - - Show Bio

@ShootingNova said:

@guttridgeb said:

Mara. Asajj isn't consistantly any good.

Umm.... yes, she is. Consistently giving Anakin and Obi-Wan trouble, and even stalemating Obi-Wan once, is good. I know TCW Grievous isn't that great either but Ventress did defeat him once too.

Consistently she isn't. In one episode of The Clone Wars she was being held off by Ahsoka on her own.

#8 Posted by ShootingNova (17199 posts) - - Show Bio

@guttridgeb: As usual, TCW wrecks continuity. Ventress has consistently given Obi-Wan and Anakin trouble, and even stalemated Obi-Wan once.

Ahsokha is just...... ridiculous. She spits on continuity. Regardless, Ahsoka lasting even a while against Ventress would be PIS. TCW is simply full of PIS, WIS, and CIS.

You can refer to @JediXMan: to reinforce my point. At times, TCW is alright, or even good. But that hardly redeems the stupidity of Ahsoka's circumstances.

#9 Posted by guttridgeb (4832 posts) - - Show Bio

@ShootingNova: This is all true but The Clone Wars is a higher class of canon than anything Ventress has appeared in (possibly excluding Clone Wars TV show which I haVen't got round to watching yet so I'm unsure of the feats contained in that). Personally, I wish this wasn't the case but it is.

Also, my apologies for the capital V in haVen't, my computer won't let me write it in lower case for some reason :)

#10 Edited by ShootingNova (17199 posts) - - Show Bio

@guttridgeb: I know that, but even in T-Canon, Ventress is still not a failure as you suggested.

#11 Posted by guttridgeb (4832 posts) - - Show Bio

@ShootingNova: I'm not suggesting that she's a failure. Merely that her inconsistency with feats should be taken into account, sorry if I didn't make myself clear.

#12 Posted by ShootingNova (17199 posts) - - Show Bio

@guttridgeb: Well, that was nothing like your first post. Regardless, that doesn't make C-Canon suddenly non-canon. We can still use her feats there.

Although generally, I would say Mara wins.

#13 Posted by guttridgeb (4832 posts) - - Show Bio

@ShootingNova: True, I should haVe said explained that in my first post and written Very instead of any :)

#14 Posted by Lord_Johnathan (3300 posts) - - Show Bio

@ShootingNova said:

@guttridgeb said:

Mara. Asajj isn't consistantly any good.

Umm.... yes, she is. Consistently giving Anakin and Obi-Wan trouble, and even stalemating Obi-Wan once, is good. I know TCW Grievous isn't that great either but Ventress did defeat him once too.

TCW Grievous is akin to Jobberseid. We do not speak of that...that...abomination here.

I shall now deny anything about grievous that shows him as being anything other than the badassery incarnate he was in Clone Wars and in the comics and books.

#15 Posted by ShootingNova (17199 posts) - - Show Bio

@Lord_Johnathan: LOL. It's only usual that TCW used their PIS, WIS, and CIS to wreck everyone in it..... again. And having Obi-Wan being beaten up all the time.

Pre-TCW Grievous is much better.... in everything, quite literally. And now I'm scared of what TCW might throw out in regards to Sidious vs. Maul and Savage.

#16 Edited by JamesKM716 (1992 posts) - - Show Bio

@ShootingNova said:

Pre-TCW Grievous is much better.... in everything, quite literally. And now I'm scared of what TCW might throw out in regards to Sidious vs. Maul and Savage.

They're doing Sidious vs Maul and Savage? WHAT

http://youtu.be/WWaLxFIVX1s

#17 Posted by JediXMan (30618 posts) - - Show Bio

@ShootingNova said:

@guttridgeb: As usual, TCW wrecks continuity. Ventress has consistently given Obi-Wan and Anakin trouble, and even stalemated Obi-Wan once.

Ahsokha is just...... ridiculous. She spits on continuity. Regardless, Ahsoka lasting even a while against Ventress would be PIS. TCW is simply full of PIS, WIS, and CIS.

You can refer to @JediXMan: to reinforce my point. At times, TCW is alright, or even good. But that hardly redeems the stupidity of Ahsoka's circumstances.

Truth be told, I've ignored TCW. But I'll eat my words and watch the show if the Palpatine vs Maul and Opress fight is good (and by good, I mean a stomp)

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#18 Posted by JediXMan (30618 posts) - - Show Bio

@JamesKM716 said:

@ShootingNova said:

Pre-TCW Grievous is much better.... in everything, quite literally. And now I'm scared of what TCW might throw out in regards to Sidious vs. Maul and Savage.

They're doing Sidious vs Maul and Savage? WHAT

http://youtu.be/WWaLxFIVX1s

Yup.

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#19 Edited by ShootingNova (17199 posts) - - Show Bio

@JediXMan: I was going to show that same video to @JamesKM716: .... no fair!

Truth be told, I've ignored TCW. But I'll eat my words and watch the show if the Palpatine vs Maul and Opress fight is good (and by good, I mean a stomp)

It kind of already seems like Palpatine was toying with them. And if it did turn out he was toying with them..... what would you say? And what if it turned out to be the other way around? If Maul and Savage somehow obtained "the blessing of the Force" and won....... LOL. I sincerely hope that the latter never comes true.

Also.... on a side note, when you haven't clicked on the video and it shows Palpatine with one saber ignited and about to ignite the other...... it somehow looks very much like Kreia.........

#20 Posted by JediXMan (30618 posts) - - Show Bio

@ShootingNova said:

Also.... on a side note, when you haven't clicked on the video and it shows Palpatine with one saber ignited and about to ignite the other...... it somehow looks very much like Kreia.........

... huh. Didn't notice that, but yeah, he kinda does.

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#21 Posted by ShootingNova (17199 posts) - - Show Bio

@JediXMan: LOL, now TCW is ripping off KotOR II........ what is wrong with the world.......

TBH, the only thing in Season 5 that will ever interest me is Palpatine's duel with Savage and Maul, and if Palpatine has any other duels.

#22 Posted by JamesKM716 (1992 posts) - - Show Bio

@JediXMan: To quote Darth Vader: "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO"

*Admitedly, that fight scene did look super awesome

@ShootingNova: Thanks for trying.

And it wouldn't surprise me if Sidious was just toying with them.

#23 Posted by ShootingNova (17199 posts) - - Show Bio

@JamesKM716: Agreed with all.

#24 Posted by JamesKM716 (1992 posts) - - Show Bio

@ShootingNova: I'm curious to see how they handle Darth Maul.

#25 Posted by ShootingNova (17199 posts) - - Show Bio

@JamesKM716: Moreso with Palpatine.

#26 Posted by G1d3on (96 posts) - - Show Bio

@JediXMan said:

@ShootingNova said:

@guttridgeb: As usual, TCW wrecks continuity. Ventress has consistently given Obi-Wan and Anakin trouble, and even stalemated Obi-Wan once.

Ahsokha is just...... ridiculous. She spits on continuity. Regardless, Ahsoka lasting even a while against Ventress would be PIS. TCW is simply full of PIS, WIS, and CIS.

You can refer to @JediXMan: to reinforce my point. At times, TCW is alright, or even good. But that hardly redeems the stupidity of Ahsoka's circumstances.

Truth be told, I've ignored TCW. But I'll eat my words and watch the show if the Palpatine vs Maul and Opress fight is good (and by good, I mean a stomp)

According to the text for Darth Maul: Shadow Conspiracy, the only time Sidious struggles is one point when he holds their blades in saber lock. Opress is visibly shocked at Sidious's "prodigious strength", being able to hold their two handed strikes at bay with one hand and one blade each. (Presumably, this is the scene we see in the trailer.) The rest of the fight is strongly suggested to be a complete and utter curbstomp.

#27 Posted by JediXMan (30618 posts) - - Show Bio

@G1d3on:

Hardly seems like he's struggling. If it's anything like the novelization of the fight, from what I have read from the sample I got, Palpatine is just playing around the entire time.

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#28 Posted by ShootingNova (17199 posts) - - Show Bio

@JediXMan said:

@G1d3on:

Hardly seems like he's struggling. If it's anything like the novelization of the fight, from what I have read from the sample I got, Palpatine is just playing around the entire time.

Yeah, i thought so too.

@G1d3on: I'm curious as to how Sidious would struggle in the lock.

#29 Posted by JediXMan (30618 posts) - - Show Bio

@ShootingNova said:

@JediXMan said:

@G1d3on:

Hardly seems like he's struggling. If it's anything like the novelization of the fight, from what I have read from the sample I got, Palpatine is just playing around the entire time.

Yeah, i thought so too.

If memory serves, it's described as Maul and Opress fighting hard throughout, and Palpatine just playing around casually until he finishes them in the end.

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#30 Posted by G1d3on (96 posts) - - Show Bio

@JediXMan:

I have scans of the book's fight scene. The text does note that he struggles, but as I said, it's only when he holds their blades in saberlock simultaneously. The rest strongly implies that he's screwing with them.

#31 Edited by shroudofsorrow (3163 posts) - - Show Bio

So much to say, so little time...

First off, can we please stop bashing the CG Clone Wars show? Everyone keeps saying it "stomps on continuity" or "ruins continuity" but I still haven't been given one shred of evidence to support such claims. Whenever I ask for evidence, all I get is something along the lines of "Ahsoka sucks". That doesn't cut it. Ahsoka's inclusion does not "spit on continuity" with the exception that how Anakin got her as a padawan is admittedly ridiculous. But her inclusion in the SW canon does nothing to ruin continuity. So what if she wasn't mentioned in anything before the CG Clone Wars show? A character introduced in 2008 is not going to be in something that came out in 2007 or earlier. Just like how all of the important Prequel-Era Jedi (along with other important characters from the Prequel Era) didn't ever show up or be mentioned in anything in SW that came out pre-1999 because they didn't exist yet. That is an invalid argument. That her inclusion ruins Anakin's relationship with Obi-Wan is also rubbish to me. Anakin and Obi-Wan are still a pair and a duo and their eventual fight against one another still tragic. The only thing that has changed is that Anakin now has an apprentice of his own and thus another person in his life. Big deal. I'm no big fan of Ahsoka, but I don't believe she "spits on continuity".

@ShootingNova: And no, the CG Clone Wars show does not "ruin continuity", nor is it filled with any kind of PIS, CIS, or "WIS" (whatever the last one means). So Sidious is fighting Maul and Savage. So what? He fought Mace evenly even though he's better than Mace. There is an explanation for that. Who's to say there isn't one for Maul and Savage. Perhaps Maul is being amped too. Or perhaps Sidious was toying with them. It certainly looked that way. So no, that's not PIS or CIS either. And considering that the episode featuring that fight hasn't even aired yet I don't think we should be saying anything about that because we don't know the context behind it. There could be unique circumstances, same for Palpatine's fight against Mace Windu or Anakin beating Dooku when Mace never did even though Mace>Anakin. In all of the episodes I have seen I have not seen any PIS, CIS, or "WIS" of any kind. Nothing. The only retcons to pre-existing continuity that I have seen are Adi Gallia and Even Piell's earlier deaths. And those earlier deaths do not render the entirety of the stories containing their original deaths non-canon. So no, until given some actual substantial evidence that I can buy, I maintain my belief that the CG Clone Wars show does not "ruin continuity".

But despite me saying all of this, I also know that I won't be changing anyone's minds. So how about we all not waste time debating this and agree to disagree? Especially considering that none of this has any relevance to the fight I posted whatsoever. And as such I will not be responding to any response I get to this. Just putting in my two cents. No more no less.

@ShootingNova said:

It kind of already seems like Palpatine was toying with them. And if it did turn out he was toying with them..... what would you say? And what if it turned out to be the other way around? If Maul and Savage somehow obtained "the blessing of the Force" and won....... LOL. I sincerely hope that the latter never comes true.

Also.... on a side note, when you haven't clicked on the video and it shows Palpatine with one saber ignited and about to ignite the other...... it somehow looks very much like Kreia.........

They're not going to. Do you really think if Maul would let his old master live if by some miracle he won? Trust me: Sidious ain't losing this fight. I see it as being like Mace Vs. Sidious, where Maul gets a big amp that allows him to hold his own but ultimately not be able to win.

And yeah, I see that similarity too. In fairness though, I've always considered Kreia to be a female Palpatine. So it is a fitting comparison.

Man I am dying to see that episode. I'll be rooting for Maul and Savage even though I know they'll lose.

Regarding the fight itself, I'd say Mara wins, since doing well against Darth Caedus is better than doing well against Anakin and Obi-Wan and also losing to Obi-Wan at one point. But I do think its a somewhat close lightsaber duel. Who is superior Force-wise? I know Ventress has some pretty good TK feats. Does Mara have any Force feats of note?

#32 Edited by ShootingNova (17199 posts) - - Show Bio

@G1d3on: Could you please post said scan? Not that I don't trust you, just so I can clarify.

@shroudofsorrow: Yes, the Clone Wars does spit on continuity, please don't try to argue. It's not just Ahsoka's circumstances (which alone spit on continuity) , but many, many more things. Yes, retcons to deaths, Darth Maul easily goading Obi-Wan despite the fact how that type of wording should not have been sufficient to goad him, and so on. And now this is horribly off-topic.

LOL, I was kind of kidding. Honestly, even if they do win a battle of sabers (they won't unless Palpatine lets them) Palpatine curbstomps via the Force. I am both curious and nervous as to that episode. Also, the amp thing is ridiculous. If it's true, it'll spit on continuity again. How would Maul get a similar amp? He could get a minor amp, but honestly, I don't see him getting anything at all.

#33 Posted by G1d3on (96 posts) - - Show Bio

@ShootingNova said:

@G1d3on: Could you please post said scan? Not that I don't trust you, just so I can clarify.

@shroudofsorrow: Yes, the Clone Wars does spit on continuity, please don't try to argue. It's not just Ahsoka's circumstances (which alone spit on continuity) , but many, many more things. Yes, retcons to deaths, Darth Maul easily goading Obi-Wan despite the fact how that type of wording should not have been sufficient to goad him, and so on. And now this is horribly off-topic.

LOL, I was kind of kidding. Honestly, even if they do win a battle of sabers (they won't unless Palpatine lets them) Palpatine curbstomps via the Force. I am both curious and nervous as to that episode. Also, the amp thing is ridiculous. If it's true, it'll spit on continuity again. How would Maul get a similar amp? He could get a minor amp, but honestly, I don't see him getting anything at all.

Check your inbox.

#34 Edited by shroudofsorrow (3163 posts) - - Show Bio

@ShootingNova said:

@shroudofsorrow: Yes, the Clone Wars does spit on continuity, please don't try to argue.

I don't believe this and I have a right to disagree and offer up an argument as to why. Again, I have not gotten a shred of evidence. Nothing, save you mentioning things I already covered. Until I get some serious inconsistencies I stand by my views. And there is a difference between one story being rendered partially non-canon to "all of continuity being ruined"

@ShootingNova said:

Ahsoka's circumstances

Circumstances of Anakin getting her as a padawan? Yes, I agree, they could and should have found a better way. Everything else? Nope.

@ShootingNova said:

Also, the amp thing is ridiculous.

An amp for Maul would be no more ridiculous than the one Mace got. It allows a cool fight to happen when it shouldn't. Gotta keep the plot moving after all. I'd rather it be done with amps then just straight up PIS. Although I suppose if you consider amps to be PIS...

@ShootingNova said:

If it's true, it'll spit on continuity again. How would Maul get a similar amp? He could get a minor amp, but honestly, I don't see him getting anything at all.

One word: hatred. Maul survived being cut in two because of his hatred of Obi-Wan Kenobi. I imagine he'd be pretty resentful of his old master too, since that's how things work with the Sith and Palpatine hung Maul out to dry. I see the amp in question being Maul's intense hatred of Sidious reaching a boiling point and giving him the same level of determination Mace had concerning the safety of the Republic. Especially since its been shown in the past that giving into your hatred in SW can lead to amps.

And again, considering that A: Maul's hatred has already allowed him to survive when he should have died, B: We know Palpatine will not lose, and C: Palpatine could still very well stomp, I see no reason to be concerned personally. And besides: you already hate the Clone Wars show and think its ruined continuity beyond salvation, so how can things get any worse?

And how does an amp "spit on continuity"? Again, you keep making these claims, but have given no evidence.

And I say again...

@shroudofsorrow said:

Who is superior Force-wise? I know Ventress has some pretty good TK feats. Does Mara have any Force feats of note?
#35 Posted by ShootingNova (17199 posts) - - Show Bio

@shroudofsorrow: This is horribly off-topic now, so I question the need to even respond. And the amp of Windu was different. It was channeled through Vaapad as well, Maul cannot do that, having no ability to use Vaapad. Hatred itself can only get you so far.

On-topic, I am inclined to say Ventress wins in a Force fight.