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#1 Edited by Kingjohnrocks (1995 posts) - - Show Bio

1 hours prep, full knowledge

Battle ends in death.

Battle takes place in a Forest.

No speedblitzing.

Who wins?

#2 Posted by Shavo (2061 posts) - - Show Bio

voldemort stomps

#3 Posted by MirrorWave4 (1099 posts) - - Show Bio

Voldemort Curbes.

#4 Posted by RBT (4189 posts) - - Show Bio

Edward couldn't speedblitz anyway. Voldy will murder Edward in his most creative function.

#5 Edited by Inconvenient_Truth (2362 posts) - - Show Bio

@rbt said:

Edward couldn't speedblitz anyway. Voldy will murder Edward in his most creative function.

thats true. i forgot about his speed

#6 Edited by Kingjohnrocks (1995 posts) - - Show Bio

Anymore consensus on this?

#7 Edited by PrinceAragorn1 (17328 posts) - - Show Bio

@inconvenient_truth said:

@rbt said:

Edward couldn't speedblitz anyway. Voldy will murder Edward in his most creative function.

thats true. i forgot about his speed

even without speedblitz, I haven't seen anything from voldemort that says he can tag someone as fast as edward. (Assuming it's the book version for edward)

Add that edward can read his mind, and it's pretty much whether edward can catch voldemort or not.

#8 Edited by Baron_von_Santa (4333 posts) - - Show Bio

@princearagorn1: actually, i doubt he can. voldmort is an accomplished mind reader himself, and he knows ways to block, just saying.

#9 Posted by MetalJimmor (1066 posts) - - Show Bio

Removing speedblitz from a character with superspeed is kind of silly isn't it? Do you mean he isn't allowed to use his speed or that he just can't use his speed offensively? Or is he just suppose to not blitz Voldermort at the start of the fight but can use his speed accordingly for the remainder?

At any rate, Voldermort should be able to hide his thoughts from Edward, especially if he has prep and full knowledge on his opponent. Voldermort can also teleport which can help him deal with Edward's speed, though I don't think Voldermort will be landing any conventional curses on him. He's much too fast and Voldermort has a consistent difficulty with hitting average humans running away from him.

That said, Edward is vulnerable to fire, and since this is full knowledge Voldermort knows that weakness. A fiendfyre should be able to make life a nightmare for Edward. Especially if Voldermort decides to just set fire to the forest as he ports around.

Of course if Edward does catch him it's all over. Edward's fist would go through Voldermort's pale, sickly looking body like jello.

So it really comes down to what the OP means by "No speed blitzing" and what the starting distance is. Voldermort would dominate if he starts far enough away that he can see and react before he gets hit, but if Edward can close the distance it's all over.

At the moment I am heavily leaning toward Voldermort for the win.

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#10 Edited by PrinceAragorn1 (17328 posts) - - Show Bio

@baron_von_santa said:

@princearagorn1: actually, i doubt he can. voldmort is an accomplished mind reader himself, and he knows ways to block, just saying.

nope. Harry potter's mind reading is entirely different from voldemort's. Voldemort can, with a spell, see flashes of your memory. Cullen, on the other hand, can read the thoughts of everyone in the area simultaneously, each and every thought your mind is currently having continuously. It's not a matter of probing into your mind to read something, he's like a radio that keeps receiving without meaning to, just all frequencies.

I don't recall voldemort, or anyone in HP, showing continuous mental defense.

#11 Posted by SSJDarthPlagueis (2550 posts) - - Show Bio

Even with speedblitz Edward can't kill Voldemort due to his Horcux's. Not too sure just how the Horcux works does it make Voldemort have infinite durability or let say if you rip his head off he will still be alive?

Don't know if the killing curse would work, but his fire spells will burn Edward to ash.

#12 Posted by RBT (4189 posts) - - Show Bio

@inconvenient_truth said:

@rbt said:

Edward couldn't speedblitz anyway. Voldy will murder Edward in his most creative function.

thats true. i forgot about his speed

even without speedblitz, I haven't seen anything from voldemort that says he can tag someone as fast as edward. (Assuming it's the book version for edward)

Add that edward can read his mind, and it's pretty much whether edward can catch voldemort or not.

How fast is book Edward exactly?

#13 Posted by MetalJimmor (1066 posts) - - Show Bio

Even with speedblitz Edward can't kill Voldemort due to his Horcux's. Not too sure just how the Horcux works does it make Voldemort have infinite durability or let say if you rip his head off he will still be alive?

Don't know if the killing curse would work, but his fire spells will burn Edward to ash.

The Horcruxes stop his soul from passing on after death. He's still quite squishy and vulnerable to being killed. He also can't ressurect after he gets killed on his own. He's reduced to a meager spirit that has no presence in the world, and survives by taking possession of lowly critters like snakes and spiders.

For all intents and purposes, Voldermort is dead if his physical body is destroyed. Horcruxes don't need to be destroyed for someone to beat him.

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#14 Edited by PrinceAragorn1 (17328 posts) - - Show Bio

@rbt said:

@princearagorn1 said:

@inconvenient_truth said:

@rbt said:

Edward couldn't speedblitz anyway. Voldy will murder Edward in his most creative function.

thats true. i forgot about his speed

even without speedblitz, I haven't seen anything from voldemort that says he can tag someone as fast as edward. (Assuming it's the book version for edward)

Add that edward can read his mind, and it's pretty much whether edward can catch voldemort or not.

How fast is book Edward exactly?

Try here:

battle level of twilightverse

It has some of the speed feats from the book.

#15 Posted by RBT (4189 posts) - - Show Bio

@rbt said:

@princearagorn1 said:

@inconvenient_truth said:

@rbt said:

Edward couldn't speedblitz anyway. Voldy will murder Edward in his most creative function.

thats true. i forgot about his speed

even without speedblitz, I haven't seen anything from voldemort that says he can tag someone as fast as edward. (Assuming it's the book version for edward)

Add that edward can read his mind, and it's pretty much whether edward can catch voldemort or not.

How fast is book Edward exactly?

Try here:

battle level of twilightverse

It has some of the speed feats from the book.

That 20ft "teleportation" was impressive. There is no way to exactly deduce his feats but I'm guessing he should be over 150mph. Anything below that can be perceived by human eye.

#16 Edited by PrinceAragorn1 (17328 posts) - - Show Bio

@rbt said:

@princearagorn1 said:

@rbt said:

How fast is book Edward exactly?

Try here:

battle level of twilightverse

It has some of the speed feats from the book.

That 20ft "teleportation" was impressive. There is no way to exactly deduce his feats but I'm guessing he should be over 150mph. Anything below that can be perceived by human eye.

150 mph is the minimum limit. Not the maximum.

And Encircling an entire meadow in half a second is far more impressive that covering twenty feet lol.

Either way, I don't voldemort tagging him. At all.

#17 Edited by RBT (4189 posts) - - Show Bio

@rbt said:

@princearagorn1 said:

@rbt said:

How fast is book Edward exactly?

Try here:

battle level of twilightverse

It has some of the speed feats from the book.

That 20ft "teleportation" was impressive. There is no way to exactly deduce his feats but I'm guessing he should be over 150mph. Anything below that can be perceived by human eye.

150 mph is the minimum limit. Not the maximum.

And Encircling an entire meadow in half a second is far more impressive that covering twenty feet lol.

Either way, I don't voldemort tagging him. At all.

That's what I said.

How big was the meadow he encircled? I have only seen bits and pieces of movies so I have no idea.

Problem for Edward is, Voldy can fly(levitate). And has a very good shield. Teleportation. Not to mention the unforgivables. Edward's TP won't work on Voldy seeing that how accomplished Legilimance he is. He must know occulumency too.

#18 Edited by OfficialRikudouSennin (631 posts) - - Show Bio

Voldermort wins

#19 Edited by Eisenfauste (8273 posts) - - Show Bio

voldie

#20 Posted by icyhassan (8 posts) - - Show Bio

Lord Voldemort already was depicted to have vampires and Werewolves under his control. so Edward Cullen, and even all Cullenses would make a good seasoning for his mushsroom+Jacob soup! lol

Avada Kedavra Bitches ! xD

#21 Edited by PrinceAragorn1 (17328 posts) - - Show Bio

@rbt said:

@princearagorn1 said:

@rbt said:

@princearagorn1 said:

@rbt said:

How fast is book Edward exactly?

That's what I said.

How big was the meadow he encircled? I have only seen bits and pieces of movies so I have no idea.

Can't say exactly. You can hardly expect me to give you the dimensions 0_0

But you could say it was a standard/smallish if you want to take low end meadow, it was a part of a jungle. Still, it's fast as hell. Much faster than 20 ft teleport thing.

Problem for Edward is, Voldy can fly(levitate).

Problem for voldemort is, he is not going to tag edward at all. And edward doesn't breathe, nor does he get tired.

It's just a matter of whether he can stay out of edward's reach forever, or BFR himself. And in a forest, he'll either keep flying above the trees, or stand on the ground/in range. Considering the vampires can jump over 100 feet...

And has a very good shield.

And what has the shield taken to say he can take blows from edward, or stop a tree-trunk thrown at him fast enough to shatter on impact?

Edward's TP won't work on Voldy seeing that how accomplished Legilimance he is. He must know occulumency too.

Not really. There is no reason why his TP won't work. Harry potter mind reading is done on a person by a spell, it's a limited time deal. They can access your memories.

Edward can mind read many people simultaneously for days with a vast range, and he doesn't have anything to do with memories. He only reads thoughts, which isn't something you can do in HP. Aro's skills with memory were far higher, he could literally read every thought your mind ever has, to the point he knew you better than yourself. Still, edward kept up with that telepathic information flow. I haven't seen anything from voldemort to say he can block edwards telepathy at all.

Teleportation. Not to mention the unforgivables.

All of which need for him to be tagged. And if by chance voldemort appears anywhere within 20 feet of edward, it's game over for him. *snap*

#22 Posted by Funsiized (3716 posts) - - Show Bio

Ed

#23 Edited by kyrees (5073 posts) - - Show Bio

@icyhassan: voldemort never controlled them as you implied but were generally given a better option by voldemort than their current states. vampires in the series are not ostracized compared to werewolves nor he was casting imperious on them

and how do you kill a being that is already dead ? twilight vampires's heart don't beat and all avada does is basically stop a heart from beating. it's like casting avada on an inferni

#24 Posted by RBT (4189 posts) - - Show Bio

@rbt said:

@princearagorn1 said:

@rbt said:

@princearagorn1 said:

@rbt said:

How fast is book Edward exactly?

That's what I said.

How big was the meadow he encircled? I have only seen bits and pieces of movies so I have no idea.

Can't say exactly. You can hardly expect me to give you the dimensions 0_0

But you could say it was a standard/smallish if you want to take low end meadow, it was a part of a jungle. Still, it's fast as hell. Much faster than 20 ft teleport thing.

Problem for Edward is, Voldy can fly(levitate).

Problem for voldemort is, he is not going to tag edward at all. And edward doesn't breathe, nor does he get tired.

It's just a matter of whether he can stay out of edward's reach forever, or BFR himself. And in a forest, he'll either keep flying above the trees, or stand on the ground/in range. Considering the vampires can jump over 100 feet...

And has a very good shield.

And what has the shield taken to say he can take blows from edward, or stop a tree-trunk thrown at him fast enough to shatter on impact?

Edward's TP won't work on Voldy seeing that how accomplished Legilimance he is. He must know occulumency too.

Not really. There is no reason why his TP won't work. Harry potter mind reading is done on a person by a spell, it's a limited time deal. They can access your memories.

Edward can mind read many people simultaneously for days with a vast range, and he doesn't have anything to do with memories. He only reads thoughts, which isn't something you can do in HP. Aro's skills with memory were far higher, he could literally read every thought your mind ever has, to the point he knew you better than yourself. Still, edward kept up with that telepathic information flow. I haven't seen anything from voldemort to say he can block edwards telepathy at all.

Teleportation. Not to mention the unforgivables.

All of which need for him to be tagged. And if by chance voldemort appears anywhere within 20 feet of edward, it's game over for him. *snap*

Shields by weaker wizards can block multiple stunners. Though I'm not sure how much damage stunners can do to physical world.

Many spells like "Levicorpus" "Crucio" or "Petrificus Totalus" doesn't have a beam or something. You just have to aim in general direction of target.

Voldemort doesn't need wand to perform legilimency or occulumency. Snape could only decieve him because he was probably best occulemens in the series. Edward had TP, but that doesn't mean Voldy can't use legilimency on him.

#25 Edited by PrinceAragorn1 (17328 posts) - - Show Bio

@rbt:

Shields by weaker wizards can block multiple stunners. Though I'm not sure how much damage stunners can do to physical world.

I know. Basically, it doesn't have the feats to say it can block edward's damage output.

Many spells like "Levicorpus" "Crucio" or "Petrificus Totalus" doesn't have a beam or something. You just have to aim in general direction of target.

Levicorpus and liberacorpus both have a flash of light, they just kind of decide targets close to them. crucio is similar to other curses, and it can be dodged. Same for the body bind curse, it can be dodged/it can miss.

None of them are doing anything to someone who's clearly above peak human in speed.

Voldemort doesn't need wand to perform legilimency or occulumency. Snape could only decieve him because he was probably best occulemens in the series. Edward had TP, but that doesn't mean Voldy can't use legilimency on him.

As far as I recall, voldemort can't use legilimency without wand. And what's the mechanism then? legilimency is literally performed by a spell. Whether or not he can use it without a wand, edward has more than enough speed needed to dodge whatever thrown at him.

#26 Posted by Baron_von_Santa (4333 posts) - - Show Bio

@princearagorn1: all of you forgot about the sort of spells voldemort can use. one in particular. i will not say what it is though. it is powerful enough to destroy a horcrux.

#27 Posted by Carter_esque (6447 posts) - - Show Bio

Voldemort stomps hard.

#28 Posted by The_Flash_Too_Fast (278 posts) - - Show Bio

Edward uses his speed and easily wins.

#29 Posted by algorhythm511 (528 posts) - - Show Bio

Voldemort is capable of mind raping and flying. Given that Edward is a pretty much a radio receiver that can't turn off, this is not a good thing.

As for them being, faster than the eye can see, which is in the wiki. It also says that is in excess of 100 mph. Which makes sense, since a small mass object would blur so much that you wouldn't see it if you weren't focused.

For example, if I am standing there at a bus stop listening to music, just staring into space. Then say a Hyabusa flies by me @ 100 mph, you would probably take off your headphones and say what was that?

Now take a High School Baseball player, you train in the batting cage ball flying at you at 106 mph. That player can still see the ball, he can still either hit the ball or move that out of the way even though the ball is.coming at you from 4 meter away.

Now that is a feat that a rookie high school baseball player could do. Unless Edward gets lucky, by the time he gets up to Voldemort he is going to be up in the air or Edward is going to be mind raped.

#30 Posted by RogueShadow (10683 posts) - - Show Bio

@baron_von_santa said:

@princearagorn1: actually, i doubt he can. voldmort is an accomplished mind reader himself, and he knows ways to block, just saying.

nope. Harry potter's mind reading is entirely different from voldemort's. Voldemort can, with a spell, see flashes of your memory. Cullen, on the other hand, can read the thoughts of everyone in the area simultaneously, each and every thought your mind is currently having continuously. It's not a matter of probing into your mind to read something, he's like a radio that keeps receiving without meaning to, just all frequencies.

I don't recall voldemort, or anyone in HP, showing continuous mental defense.

Snape did, he utilised occlumency permanently to block Voldemort, just in case he ever used legilimens.

Having said that, I don't think Edward needs his tp to win and even if Voldemort could legilimens Edward, he's just too quick for Voldy and with one hit, it's all over.

#31 Edited by Baron_von_Santa (4333 posts) - - Show Bio

@rogueshadow: all voldemort needs to do is think, and he will teleport to the sky, where he can levitate there, and use feindfyre. beings like him and dumbledore can even turn invisible.

#32 Edited by RogueShadow (10683 posts) - - Show Bio

@baron_von_santa said:

@rogueshadow: all voldemort needs to do is think, and he will teleport to the sky, where he can levitate there, and use feindfyre. beings like him and dumbledore can even turn invisible.

Edward's reaction speeds are far faster. His fist would be in Voldy's head before he could react.

EDIT: Yeah it says no speedblitzing, Voldemort wins.

#33 Posted by Baron_von_Santa (4333 posts) - - Show Bio

@rogueshadow: so edward can move faster than someone can think huh.

#34 Edited by Kingjohnrocks (1995 posts) - - Show Bio

@princearagorn1: Your anaylsis CONTINUES to dissapoint me.

Let's go through what Voldemort CAN do to mister Cullen.

Snape mentions Voldemort being extremely skilled at it:

Snape looked back at him for a moment and then said contemptuously, 'Surely even you could have worked that out by now, Potter? The Dark Lord is highly skilled at Legilimency --'

'What's that? Sir?'

'It is the ability to extract feelings and memories from another person's mind--'

'He can read minds?' said Harry quickly, his worst fears confirmed.

'You have no subtlety, Potter,' said Snape, his dark eyes glittering. 'You do not understand fine distinctions. It is one of the shortcomings that makes you such a lamentable potion-maker.'

Snape paused for a moment, apparently to savour the pleasure of insulting Harry, before continuing.

'Only Muggles talk of "mind-reading". The mind is not a book, to be opened at will and examined at leisure. Thoughts are not etched on the inside of skulls, to be perused by any invader, the mind is a complex and many-layered thing, Potter-- or at least, most minds are.' He smirked. 'It is true, however, that those who have mastered Legilimency are able, under certain conditions, to delve into the minds of their victims and to interpret their findings correctly. The Dark Lord, for instance, almost always knows when somebody is lying to him.

-Taken from: Chapter 24, Occlumency, Harry Potter and the order of the phoenix.

So, he can extract memories and feelings from the mind. What does extract mean?

Definition of Extract

Remove or take out, esp. by effort or force. -Taken from Google.com.

So, Cullen can just punch through Voldemort's mind and read his thought,s right?

Well, I don't like that argument. So let's hit the mega-center of where it says Voldemort CAN invade, control, and take the mind without a spell and with Legilimency and possibly block his mind from invasion.

I looked in the books and got something just for you, Aragorn..

Severus Snape: "It appears there is a connection between the Dark Lord's mind and your own. Whether or not he is aware of this connection is for the moment unclear. Pray he remains ignorant."
Harry Potter: "You mean if he knows about it, then he'll be able to read my mind?"
Severus Snape: "Read it, control it, unhinge it. In the past it was often the Dark Lord's pleasure to invade the minds of his victims, creating visions designed to torture them into madness. Only after extracting the last exquisite ounce of agony, only when he had them literally begging for death would he finally...kill them."
-Taken from: Chapter 24, Occlumency, Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix.
Now, let's get through this.
"Read it, control it, unhinge it" - Snape, Taken from Chapter 24, Occlumency, Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix.
Now, it does validly mention that there is a special connection, which one can factually assume only Harry is subjected to his mind being taken over. Right? Yeah, wrong.
Snape has something else to say.
" In the past it was often the Dark Lord's pleasure to invade the minds of his victims, creating visions designed to torture them into madness. Only after extracting the last exquisite ounce of agony, only when he had them literally begging for death would he finally...kill them." -Taken from: Chapter 24, Occlumency, Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix.
Wait, so did he have a connection with his victims? Harry is the ONLY person in the Rowlingverse that he had a mental link with, yet he invaded the minds, controlled the minds and unhinged the minds of many victims before Harry.
I'm just trying to ensure this isn't a spite, I'm not arguing for Voldemort, but your anaylsis given your knowledge of HP.
So please, don't spout out lies that Voldemort can only see "flashes" of the mind, because evidence says otherwise.
#35 Edited by Experio (15970 posts) - - Show Bio

Voldemort.

#36 Posted by PrinceAragorn1 (17328 posts) - - Show Bio

@kingjohnrocks:

Let's go through what Voldemort CAN do to mister Cullen.

Wait, so did he have a connection with his victims? Harry is the ONLY person in the Rowlingverse that he had a mental link with, yet he invaded the minds, controlled the minds and unhinged the minds of many victims before Harry.I'm just trying to ensure this isn't a spite, I'm not arguing for Voldemort, but your anaylsis given your knowledge of HP.So please, don't spout out lies that Voldemort can only see "flashes" of the mind, because evidence says otherwise.

I know. If you actually read the remaining part of the chapter, they actually showed how legilimency works:

1.

You will find that similar powers are needed for this…brace yourself, now. Legilimens!”

Snape had struck before Harry was ready, before he had even begun to summon any force of resistance. The office swam in front of his eyes and vanished; image after image was racing through his mind like a flickering film so vivid it blinded him to his surroundings.

He was five, watching Dudley riding a new red bicycle, and his heart was bursting with jealousy…he was nine, and Ripper the bulldog was chasing him up a tree and the Dursleys were laughing below on the lawn…he was sitting under the Sorting Hat, and it was telling him he would do well in Slytherin…Hermione was lying in the hospital wing, her face covered with thick black hair…a hundred Dementors were closing in on him beside the dark lake…Cho Chang was drawing nearer to him under the mistletoe…

-Harry Potter and the order of the phoenix.

-----

2.

“Did you see everything I saw?” Harry asked, unsure whether he wanted to hear the answer.

“Flashes of it,” said Snape, his lip curling. “To whom did the dog belong?”

“My Aunt Marge,” Harry muttered, hating Snape.

-Harry Potter and the order of the phoenix.

------

3.

Harry raised his own wand.

“Protego!”

Snape staggered – his wand flew upwards, away from Harry – and suddenly Harry’s mind was teeming with memories that were not his: a hook-nosed man was shouting at a cowering woman, while a small dark-haired boy cried in a corner…a greasy-haired teenager sat alone in a dark bedroom, pointing his wand at the ceiling, shooting down flies…a girl was laughing as a scrawny boy tried to mount a bucking broomstick –

“ENOUGH!”

Harry felt as though he had been pushed hard in the chest; he staggered several steps backwards, hit some of the shelves covering Snape’s walls and heard something crack. Snape was shaking slightly, and was very white in the face.

-Harry Potter and the order of the phoenix.

I looked in the books and got something just for you, Aragorn..

See? If you had just looked a little further, you'd have understood the mechanism of legilimency.

Using the spell, he can only see flashes of a person's memories. Harry clearly recognized the dog, snape was unable to read the thought.

Can voldemort control his victims? Yes. Imperio.

Can he torture them? Yes. Crucio.

Can he see flashes of their memory? Yes. Legilimency.

Is a he reasonable telepath? No.

We don't even know what he did to other people. Did it involve prep? potions? something he could set up in his base? We don't know that either. In harry's case, he could overcome all kinds of restrictions due to a shared mind. That includes the restriction of space.

Besides, the legilimence spell, like normal spells, can be blocked, dodged, or reflected. It's not even a factor in this battle.

I still haven't seen anything from voldemort that says he can keep out a telepath powerful enough to read minds of everyone around him simultaneously and continuously without feeling slightest mental fatigue.

Your anaylsis CONTINUES to dissapoint me.

Likewise.

@princearagorn1 said:

@baron_von_santa said:

@princearagorn1: actually, i doubt he can. voldmort is an accomplished mind reader himself, and he knows ways to block, just saying.

nope. Harry potter's mind reading is entirely different from voldemort's. Voldemort can, with a spell, see flashes of your memory. Cullen, on the other hand, can read the thoughts of everyone in the area simultaneously, each and every thought your mind is currently having continuously. It's not a matter of probing into your mind to read something, he's like a radio that keeps receiving without meaning to, just all frequencies.

I don't recall voldemort, or anyone in HP, showing continuous mental defense.

Snape did, he utilised occlumency permanently to block Voldemort, just in case he ever used legilimens.

Having said that, I don't think Edward needs his tp to win and even if Voldemort could legilimens Edward, he's just too quick for Voldy and with one hit, it's all over.

They don't have permanent legilimency to begin with, other than harry-voldemort. It's more like an exchange. (I added quote of snape blocking harry above)

I know edward doesn't need his TP, too. Either way, I don't see any reason vodemort could block it out.

@princearagorn1: all of you forgot about the sort of spells voldemort can use. one in particular. i will not say what it is though. it is powerful enough to destroy a horcrux.

We didn't. It's useless against someone as fast as cullen.

Even without the speedblitz at the start of the battle, he could literally wait till avada kedavra reaches five feet from him and then take rip tom's head off. The speed difference is way too large to be overcome.

Only thing that can change things is prep, but voldemort doesn't utilize it. He just attacks people one on one.

#37 Edited by Quanchi (281 posts) - - Show Bio

Is this the movie versions for both ?

#38 Posted by PrinceAragorn1 (17328 posts) - - Show Bio

@quanchi said:

Is this the movie versions for both ?

generally, unless anything is mentioned, it's primary canon version for both. (books)

#39 Posted by Kingjohnrocks (1995 posts) - - Show Bio

@princearagorn1:

Let me start out by saying that I was wrongabout legilimens, but that wasn't even the main core of my argument.

My argument is that Voldemort has the ability to control, read, and unhinge the minds of his victims completely. Snape never said anything about imperio, EVEN THOUGH he can use that curse.

Can voldemort control his victims? Yes. Imperio.

Without it, too. IF we go by what Snape was saying.

Can he torture them? Yes. Crucio.

You make it seem like that is the only spell to torture people in Harry Potter. There are other curses, jinxes, and there is FIRE

Can he see flashes of their memory? Yes. Legilimency.

The evidence shows he can do much more then just see flashes of their mind.

"t. In the past it was often the Dark Lord's pleasure to invade the minds of his victims, creating visions designed to torture them into madnes"

What spells creates a vision in someone's head? None. Voldemort is using his power over their mind to do that.

Is a he reasonable telepath? No.

This is purely your opinion.

We don't even know what he did to other people. Did it involve prep? potions? something he could set up in his base? We don't know that either. In harry's case, he could overcome all kinds of restrictions due to a shared mind. That includes the restriction of space.

I could ask multiple questions in pretaining to Edward about that. Evidence is evidence, take it or leave it.

Besides, the legilimence spell, like normal spells, can be blocked, dodged, or reflected. It's not even a factor in this battle.

I agree, so explain this to me my friend:

1. What spell creates visions inside people's heads?

2. Does imperio allow voldemort to read, control, and unhinge the minds of his victims?

3. How can you make the claim that crucio is the only way to torture someone in the H.P universe?

4. The speed factor has been removed to make this battle fair. So, can you please give me a non-biased answer?

#40 Posted by GodTriggerHulk (1998 posts) - - Show Bio

@kingjohnrocks:

By removing the speed factor the fight has been made unfair. Edward's only prayer was speed blitzing Voldemort before he could magic him up.

#41 Posted by GodTriggerHulk (1998 posts) - - Show Bio

@kingjohnrocks:

Actually even with speed blitz Voldy still wins (magic shields FTW).

#42 Posted by PrinceAragorn1 (17328 posts) - - Show Bio

@kingjohnrocks:

Let me start out by saying that I was wrong about legilimens,

I know. Btw, I'm rearranging parts of your post, as some of them have to be answered together.

My argument is that Voldemort has the ability to control, read, and unhinge the minds of his victims completely. Snape never said anything about imperio, EVEN THOUGH he can use that curse.

Which I disagree with. Possible, but not probable.

Can voldemort control his victims? Yes. Imperio.

Without it, too. IF we go by what Snape was saying.

Not really. The only spell snape mentions doesn't show anything remotely like mind control.

Can he torture them? Yes. Crucio.

You make it seem like that is the only spell to torture people in Harry Potter. There are other curses, jinxes, and there is FIRE

I know. But it is by far the most effective method we've seen. I was giving a clearly mentioned method of magical torture. You can hardly expect voldemort to use the bucktooth hex on his victims lol.

Can he see flashes of their memory? Yes. Legilimency.

The evidence shows he can do much more then just see flashes of their mind.

"t. In the past it was often the Dark Lord's pleasure to invade the minds of his victims, creating visions designed to torture them into madnes"

What spells creates a vision in someone's head? None. Voldemort is using his power over their mind to do that.

Yes, and does it say how? no. The spell snape mentions is doing nothing like that.

Is a he reasonable telepath? No.

This is purely your opinion.

Which I can back up with quotes from books.

We don't even know what he did to other people. Did it involve prep? potions? something he could set up in his base? We don't know that either. In harry's case, he could overcome all kinds of restrictions due to a shared mind. That includes the restriction of space.

I could ask multiple questions in pretaining to Edward about that. Evidence is evidence, take it or leave it.

Like what? His telepathy is perfectly clear and consistent through the books.

Besides, the legilimence spell, like normal spells, can be blocked, dodged, or reflected. It's not even a factor in this battle.

I agree, so explain this to me my friend:

1. What spell creates visions inside people's heads?

2. Does imperio allow voldemort to read, control, and unhinge the minds of his victims?

3. How can you make the claim that crucio is the only way to torture someone in the H.P universe?

Sure. Here you go:

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now let me make it clearer:

What does legilimency spell do? Shows flashes of a person's memory.

Does it do any of the stuff mentioned? No.

Is there any canonically mentioned spell that telepathically gives the effects shown? No.

Are there examples of other magical means that accomplish the said effects? YES.

1. Driving people to madness by torture:

“No,” said Dumbledore, his voice full of a bitterness Harry had never heard there before. “They are insane. They are both in St. Mungo’s Hospital for Magical Maladies and Injuries. I believe Neville visits them, with his grandmother, during the holidays. They do not recognize him.”

-Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire.

2. Showing people horrifying visions by means of a potion, to the point they beg to be killed:

Dumbledore began to cower as though invisible torturers surrounded him; his flailing hand almost knocked the refilled goblet from Harry’s trembling hands as he moaned, “Don’t hurt them, don’t hurt them, please, please, it’s my fault, hurt me instead…”

“Here, drink this, drink this, you’ll be all right,” said Harry desperately, and once again Dumbledore obeyed him, opening his mouth even as he kept his eyes tight shut and shook from head to foot.

......He supported Dumbledore’s shoulders and again, Dumbledore drained the glass; then Harry was on his feet once more, refilling the goblet as Dumbledore began to scream in more anguish than ever, “I want to die! I want to die! Make it stop, make it stop, I want to die!”

-Harry Potter and The Goblet of fire.

That was sad, one of the saddest pages I've read in HP T_T

The evidence clearly shows potions can be used to cause effect described on someone's mind. Literally.

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Basically, what snape is saying is, 'he can invade the minds of his victims, create visions, torture them to madness, and control them'.

What you are saying is, he can do all of that telepathically. Can you show the evidence of him doing all of it telepathically? Nope.

What I'm saying is, he can do that using various means, like spells and potions. Can I provide evidence backing it up? Yes.

Clear?

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4. The speed factor has been removed to make this battle fair. So, can you please give me a non-biased answer?

Without speed factor, edward isn't even in the battle. That's practically one of his only superpowers. Voldemort wins in the case, but only against an extremely nerfed edward. (nerfing is against the rules btw)

#43 Posted by algorhythm511 (528 posts) - - Show Bio

Seems to me if Edward reads surface thought, cannot control it, and hears people thoughts involuntarly. That would indicate his power works like a radio receiver. Now with that being said, if someone has mental defenses to keep one from entering their mind, then it working like a firewall, a faraday cage. The important note is like a gate, it keeps a person from coming in but prevents me from going out.

One could argue, the only person that Edward couldn't read was Bella. However, all that tells me is, besides Bella, no one in the Twilight Universe has any psi-resistance feats no one has figured out how to do it--considering Jane in her 1000 years on Earth has never had anyone besides Ms. Swan that could resist her, except Bella. But it seems that plenty of people do have the ability to resist telepathy in the Harry Potter universe. From what the other posters have said, it seems Voldemort does and that is why Ed's telepathy won't work.

I have a rebuttel, for the speed and strength argument, but I am going to bed. Night!

#44 Posted by Baron_von_Santa (4333 posts) - - Show Bio

@princearagorn1: i was to talking about the killing curse! i was talking about feindfyre

#45 Posted by PrinceAragorn1 (17328 posts) - - Show Bio
#46 Posted by dondave (37380 posts) - - Show Bio

Voldemort

#47 Posted by Transformers1024 (1901 posts) - - Show Bio

Voldermort

#48 Edited by Baron_von_Santa (4333 posts) - - Show Bio

@princearagorn1: then why is your reply like this? it is right here, and still you say you know. embarrassing bro, this is really embarrassing

@princearagorn1: all of you forgot about the sort of spells voldemort can use. one in particular. i will not say what it is though. it is powerful enough to destroy a horcrux.

We didn't. It's useless against someone as fast as cullen.

Even without the speedblitz at the start of the battle, he could literally wait till avada kedavra reaches five feet from him and then take rip tom's head off. The speed difference is way too large to be overcome.

Only thing that can change things is prep, but voldemort doesn't utilize it. He just attacks people one on one.

#49 Posted by PrinceAragorn1 (17328 posts) - - Show Bio

@princearagorn1: then why is your reply like this? it is right here, and still you say you know. embarrassing bro, this is really embarrassing

@princearagorn1: all of you forgot about the sort of spells voldemort can use. one in particular. i will not say what it is though. it is powerful enough to destroy a horcrux.

We didn't. It's useless against someone as fast as cullen.

Even without the speedblitz at the start of the battle, he could literally wait till avada kedavra reaches five feet from him and then take rip tom's head off. The speed difference is way too large to be overcome.

Only thing that can change things is prep, but voldemort doesn't utilize it. He just attacks people one on one.

that was before speed was equalized. And tell me, why exactly won't anyone with superspeed simply outrun it?

#50 Posted by Baron_von_Santa (4333 posts) - - Show Bio

@princearagorn1: it can burn forever, and is hard to contain. he can outrun it by using his speed, yes, but it is forever burning, and soon all the ground would be covered by it, and speed will not help at all