Lord Voldemort and Death Eaters vs Sauron's Army

@Kingjohnrocks

Why do you avoid the argument I was comenting on the scale not if they are able to do it,I know they are,but agains tens of thousands of arrows AND trebuchets.

I can say the Witch King has never faced Avada Kedavra either, Bellatrix can cast it at him if "no man can kill him". Tired? The Death Eaters have thrown spells like nothing and has teleported by thought while fighting. If that didn't drain them I don't think firing a few spells to take out the army would be of any trouble.

A few spells?Even if all of them could conjure the same kind of fire Dumbledore did it would still take hours(and wouldn't do nothing against the ring wraiths or the Balrog).

Also prove that Avada Kedavra can "kill" intangible spirits.Especially ones bound to the mortal world by very powerful magical items.

Prove that they can fight for hours and hours and not get tired,prove that they can keep up with being brutally attacked by melee enemies.Prove that most of them are not a bunch of newbs that can be defeated by teens.

Teleportation only use will be to run away.

Now on the Witch King thing as Laucurus said above unless the Death Eaters can get their hands on one of those blades they will have to fight an invisible and intangible enemy who can kill them with their Breaths.

Again the weight is on you to prove Avada Kedavra even works on non-corporeal beings(I think it can be argued that using a metal shield strong enough will be able to protect someone).

You are comparing beings that aren't even human(or corporeal for that matter),to a spell only shown to work on humans and animals.

I think it's pretty obvious Voldemort would win.

As far as the army goes, their warriors are all just fodder, even arrows won't have a chance of doing anything. If Sauron's army has siege weaponry (i.e. catapults) with them even that wouldn't be a problem for the Death Eaters.

Trolls and the like are just as vulnerable as the orcs are. Maybe more durable, but still vulnerable.

The nine and the Witch King are not just invulnerable... Their flying beasts would be easily killed or otherwise enchanted. The army likewise would be easily destroyed, nullified, and defended against. The Nazgul themselves stand no chance against the Death Eaters.

explanations below

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Melee goblins and trolls would have no chance of ever reaching the Death Eaters to deal damage. Among hundreds of things that could be done defensively, the Death Eaters could render themselves completely invisible the the army, protective forcefields against arrows, collapse the ground like what happened in the movie when Sauron died, not to mention their teleportation which makes them incredibly mobile... offensively, they could do the exact same thing Dumbledore did to the Inferi in the movie, or what Voldemort did against Dumbledore... anything

For siege weaponry, simple forcefields would be fine enough, or they could just enchant all of the siege weaponry to catch fire, and even if a large rock were somehow going to hit them a simple telekinesis spell would knock it away.

Trolls aren't specially invulnerable and thus would be just as destroyed by the Death Eaters' devastating magic

The Witch King is not physically nor magically invulnerable. It's possible he's spiritually invulnerable, like Voldemort, Gandalf or Sauron.

The Nazgul are not physically nor magically invulnerable. It's possible they're spiritually invulnerable, like Voldemort, Gandalf, or Sauron.

Their flying beasts were fended off easily by arrows and killed easily by swords.

Their army is less efficient than a human army which would likewise be slaughtered by the Death Eaters.

@Kingjohnrocks said:

@sentryman555 said:

@Kingjohnrocks: I'll give you vampires and Inferi but I was talking about immortal beings not different magical creatures. The dementors count but only one spell works on them and that spell was made specifically to fight dementors. All of which are different from the nine, especially the witch-king. Also while magic does hurt dragons in HP I should point out that it takes a whole team of wizards to take down a dragon. You could make the argument that Voldemort is powerful enough to take one down by himself but I doubt he could take on more than one at a time.

I love how you try to downgrade these creatures even though there's clear discriptions.

You agreed with me that the Death eaters could win. Why continue an arguement?

Voldemort could take down a dragon, so could Dumbledore.

I haven't agreed that Voldemort and the death eaters could take down Sauron's army just the nine and I argued they would take them down with difficulty. You still have the rest of sauron's army to deal with. 500 orcs is not something Voldemort can just flick his wand at while battling dragons at the same time. My original comment on this debate was actually that Voldemort would lose due to the sheer numbers against him.

Also, even though wizards can kill those creatures with spells, almost every creature you listed can be killed by a sword. So I don't really see that as the wizards accomplishing something that Sauron's army couldn't.

@sentryman555 said:

@Kingjohnrocks said:

@sentryman555 said:

@Kingjohnrocks: I'll give you vampires and Inferi but I was talking about immortal beings not different magical creatures. The dementors count but only one spell works on them and that spell was made specifically to fight dementors. All of which are different from the nine, especially the witch-king. Also while magic does hurt dragons in HP I should point out that it takes a whole team of wizards to take down a dragon. You could make the argument that Voldemort is powerful enough to take one down by himself but I doubt he could take on more than one at a time.

I love how you try to downgrade these creatures even though there's clear discriptions.

You agreed with me that the Death eaters could win. Why continue an arguement?

Voldemort could take down a dragon, so could Dumbledore.

I haven't agreed that Voldemort and the death eaters could take down Sauron's army just the nine and I argued they would take them down with difficulty. You still have the rest of sauron's army to deal with. 500 orcs is not something Voldemort can just flick his wand at while battling dragons at the same time. My original comment on this debate was actually that Voldemort would lose due to the sheer numbers against him.

Also, even though wizards can kill those creatures with spells, almost every creature you listed can be killed by a sword. So I don't really see that as the wizards accomplishing something that Sauron's army couldn't.

I'd love to see a human kill a Dementor before it's soul can be stolen.

You really love to downgrade HP to your likings don't you? I am tired of this LOTR fanboyism.

@Kingjohnrocks said:

@sentryman555 said:

@Kingjohnrocks said:

@sentryman555 said:

@Kingjohnrocks: I'll give you vampires and Inferi but I was talking about immortal beings not different magical creatures. The dementors count but only one spell works on them and that spell was made specifically to fight dementors. All of which are different from the nine, especially the witch-king. Also while magic does hurt dragons in HP I should point out that it takes a whole team of wizards to take down a dragon. You could make the argument that Voldemort is powerful enough to take one down by himself but I doubt he could take on more than one at a time.

I love how you try to downgrade these creatures even though there's clear discriptions.

You agreed with me that the Death eaters could win. Why continue an arguement?

Voldemort could take down a dragon, so could Dumbledore.

I haven't agreed that Voldemort and the death eaters could take down Sauron's army just the nine and I argued they would take them down with difficulty. You still have the rest of sauron's army to deal with. 500 orcs is not something Voldemort can just flick his wand at while battling dragons at the same time. My original comment on this debate was actually that Voldemort would lose due to the sheer numbers against him.

Also, even though wizards can kill those creatures with spells, almost every creature you listed can be killed by a sword. So I don't really see that as the wizards accomplishing something that Sauron's army couldn't.

I'd love to see a human kill a Dementor before it's soul can be stolen.

You really love to downgrade HP to your likings don't you? I am tired of this LOTR fanboyism.

Okay I said ALMOST every creature you listed, Dementors are obviously part of the exception. I like Harry Potter WAY WAY more than LOTR! I actually think its your fanboyism for HP that's clouding your judgment here. Its just like how people have their favorite superhero and refuse to think they'll lose to anyone. While I like Harry Potter more, again I've read the potter books but I've only seen the lotr movies so from this knowledge, I have to conclude that Voldemort would lose. Bellatrix, Voldemort's right hand, lost to Molly Weasley and I highly doubt Molly could take down a dragon, so Bellatrix doesn't really stand much of a chance. Basically no matter how great voldemort is he is still the only heavy hitter on the death eater's side. Combine the 9 with the rest of Sauron's army and I just don't see it happening.

I came back and hell has come to this forum battle... the re-interpretation of LOTR to ensure it wins is freakin' amazing... now man is a race not a sex? Which movies or books are you guys watching/reading?? Then how did Eowyn kill the nazgul leader? geez... if no MAN can kill him then why did he die, if man cannot kill him then a woman can... as shown by both movies and Tolkien himself by having a woman kill him. LOTR magical beings can't be affected by magic from HP universe? what the hell, its a battle ain't it?

@sentryman555 said:

@Kingjohnrocks said:

@sentryman555 said:

@Kingjohnrocks said:

@sentryman555 said:

@Kingjohnrocks: I'll give you vampires and Inferi but I was talking about immortal beings not different magical creatures. The dementors count but only one spell works on them and that spell was made specifically to fight dementors. All of which are different from the nine, especially the witch-king. Also while magic does hurt dragons in HP I should point out that it takes a whole team of wizards to take down a dragon. You could make the argument that Voldemort is powerful enough to take one down by himself but I doubt he could take on more than one at a time.

I love how you try to downgrade these creatures even though there's clear discriptions.

You agreed with me that the Death eaters could win. Why continue an arguement?

Voldemort could take down a dragon, so could Dumbledore.

I haven't agreed that Voldemort and the death eaters could take down Sauron's army just the nine and I argued they would take them down with difficulty. You still have the rest of sauron's army to deal with. 500 orcs is not something Voldemort can just flick his wand at while battling dragons at the same time. My original comment on this debate was actually that Voldemort would lose due to the sheer numbers against him.

Also, even though wizards can kill those creatures with spells, almost every creature you listed can be killed by a sword. So I don't really see that as the wizards accomplishing something that Sauron's army couldn't.

I'd love to see a human kill a Dementor before it's soul can be stolen.

You really love to downgrade HP to your likings don't you? I am tired of this LOTR fanboyism.

Okay I said ALMOST every creature you listed, Dementors are obviously part of the exception. I like Harry Potter WAY WAY more than LOTR! I actually think its your fanboyism for HP that's clouding your judgment here. Its just like how people have their favorite superhero and refuse to think they'll lose to anyone. While I like Harry Potter more, again I've read the potter books but I've only seen the lotr movies so from this knowledge, I have to conclude that Voldemort would lose. Bellatrix, Voldemort's right hand, lost to Molly Weasley and I highly doubt Molly could take down a dragon, so Bellatrix doesn't really stand much of a chance. Basically no matter how great voldemort is he is still the only heavy hitter on the death eater's side. Combine the 9 with the rest of Sauron's army and I just don't see it happening.

Snape is a heavy hitter in terms of Occlumency and Legilimens. Snape can take control of someone's body, use them as a puppet, etc without saying a word. I would say that's "Heavy Hitting". Also I honestly am getting tired of you mentioning Bellatrix. A full blood witch vs a full blood witch, anyone's game, molly happened to win that game. There's no shame in losing to another pure blood witch, none at all. Now if it was someone like Draco, then I would say there'd be shame.'

Multiple people would kill Voldemort. Superman, Zatanna, Dr Fate, Dr Strange, Flash, Zoom, Darkseid, Wonder woman etc etc.

Plus, as Voldemort is occupied trying to solo the army, can't he just summon dementors to help him against the Dragons?

@Kingjohnrocks said:

@sentryman555 said:

@Kingjohnrocks said:

@sentryman555 said:

@Kingjohnrocks said:

@sentryman555 said:

@Kingjohnrocks: I'll give you vampires and Inferi but I was talking about immortal beings not different magical creatures. The dementors count but only one spell works on them and that spell was made specifically to fight dementors. All of which are different from the nine, especially the witch-king. Also while magic does hurt dragons in HP I should point out that it takes a whole team of wizards to take down a dragon. You could make the argument that Voldemort is powerful enough to take one down by himself but I doubt he could take on more than one at a time.

I love how you try to downgrade these creatures even though there's clear discriptions.

You agreed with me that the Death eaters could win. Why continue an arguement?

Voldemort could take down a dragon, so could Dumbledore.

I haven't agreed that Voldemort and the death eaters could take down Sauron's army just the nine and I argued they would take them down with difficulty. You still have the rest of sauron's army to deal with. 500 orcs is not something Voldemort can just flick his wand at while battling dragons at the same time. My original comment on this debate was actually that Voldemort would lose due to the sheer numbers against him.

Also, even though wizards can kill those creatures with spells, almost every creature you listed can be killed by a sword. So I don't really see that as the wizards accomplishing something that Sauron's army couldn't.

I'd love to see a human kill a Dementor before it's soul can be stolen.

You really love to downgrade HP to your likings don't you? I am tired of this LOTR fanboyism.

Okay I said ALMOST every creature you listed, Dementors are obviously part of the exception. I like Harry Potter WAY WAY more than LOTR! I actually think its your fanboyism for HP that's clouding your judgment here. Its just like how people have their favorite superhero and refuse to think they'll lose to anyone. While I like Harry Potter more, again I've read the potter books but I've only seen the lotr movies so from this knowledge, I have to conclude that Voldemort would lose. Bellatrix, Voldemort's right hand, lost to Molly Weasley and I highly doubt Molly could take down a dragon, so Bellatrix doesn't really stand much of a chance. Basically no matter how great voldemort is he is still the only heavy hitter on the death eater's side. Combine the 9 with the rest of Sauron's army and I just don't see it happening.

Snape is a heavy hitter in terms of Occlumency and Legilimens. Snape can take control of someone's body, use them as a puppet, etc without saying a word. I would say that's "Heavy Hitting". Also I honestly am getting tired of you mentioning Bellatrix. A full blood witch vs a full blood witch, anyone's game, molly happened to win that game. There's no shame in losing to another pure blood witch, none at all. Now if it was someone like Draco, then I would say there'd be shame.'

Multiple people would kill Voldemort. Superman, Zatanna, Dr Fate, Dr Strange, Flash, Zoom, Darkseid, Wonder woman etc etc.

Plus, as Voldemort is occupied trying to solo the army, can't he just summon dementors to help him against the Dragons?

Are we counting Snape as part of the Death Eaters? But even counting Snape thats only one other person. I've only mentioned Bellatrix once. Okay so to clarify when you say Voldemort and his death eaters, your including his other allies then? Dementors, trolls, giants, etc. because I've been under the impression that its just Voldemort and his death eaters, meaning just him and the other dark wizards.

Sauron and his army should win although Voldemort, and his Death Eaters have a good chance due to superiority in magic.

@theONEtaichou said:

I came back and hell has come to this forum battle... the re-interpretation of LOTR to ensure it wins is freakin' amazing... now man is a race not a sex? Which movies or books are you guys watching/reading?? Then how did Eowyn kill the nazgul leader? geez... if no MAN can kill him then why did he die, if man cannot kill him then a woman can... as shown by both movies and Tolkien himself by having a woman kill him. LOTR magical beings can't be affected by magic from HP universe? what the hell, its a battle ain't it?

I know this post is 5 days old, but I felt like commenting on it anyway.

If you've actually read the books, the Witch King wasn't killed by Eowyn, he was killed by Merry. Merry struck him with the Blade of Westernesse given to him by Tom Bombadil. That one shotted him. Peter Jackson horribly misinterprets many scenes. This isn't even his biggest lore mistake. His biggest mistake by far was Aragorn receiving Anduril from Elrond before entering the Paths of the Dead. First off, by the timeline, Elrond was in Mirkwood sieging Dol Guldur at that time, so he couldn't have been there. Aragorn did however get a package from some Dunedain rangers. A long thin object wrapped in cloth. Somehow, Peter Jackson misinterpreted that as being Anduril, even though Aragorn has had Anduril with him for years, or at least part of it, he shows Sam the hilt in the Prancing Pony, and it gets reforged when they go to Rivendell. It's never directly explained what they gave him, but in the battle of Pelennor Fields when Aragorn takes the southerners ships he just so happens to have a banner that has the mark of Elendil on it, the symbol that the true king of Gondor had returned. This was pretty much the main point of the first book in Return of the King, and it went completely over Peter Jackson's head.

And Man is a race in LOTRs. You should read the books again.

@Laurcus said:

@theONEtaichou said:

I came back and hell has come to this forum battle... the re-interpretation of LOTR to ensure it wins is freakin' amazing... now man is a race not a sex? Which movies or books are you guys watching/reading?? Then how did Eowyn kill the nazgul leader? geez... if no MAN can kill him then why did he die, if man cannot kill him then a woman can... as shown by both movies and Tolkien himself by having a woman kill him. LOTR magical beings can't be affected by magic from HP universe? what the hell, its a battle ain't it?

I know this post is 5 days old, but I felt like commenting on it anyway.

If you've actually read the books, the Witch King wasn't killed by Eowyn, he was killed by Merry. Merry struck him with the Blade of Westernesse given to him by Tom Bombadil. That one shotted him. Peter Jackson horribly misinterprets many scenes. This isn't even his biggest lore mistake. His biggest mistake by far was Aragorn receiving Anduril from Elrond before entering the Paths of the Dead. First off, by the timeline, Elrond was in Mirkwood sieging Dol Guldur at that time, so he couldn't have been there. Aragorn did however get a package from some Dunedain rangers. A long thin object wrapped in cloth. Somehow, Peter Jackson misinterpreted that as being Anduril, even though Aragorn has had Anduril with him for years, or at least part of it, he shows Sam the hilt in the Prancing Pony, and it gets reforged when they go to Rivendell. It's never directly explained what they gave him, but in the battle of Pelennor Fields when Aragorn takes the southerners ships he just so happens to have a banner that has the mark of Elendil on it, the symbol that the true king of Gondor had returned. This was pretty much the main point of the first book in Return of the King, and it went completely over Peter Jackson's head.

And Man is a race in LOTRs. You should read the books again.

I'm sorry but the WK was killed by Eowyn not Merry... who dealt the killing blow on the WK? Was it not Eowyn... Tolkien is the one who put that in his books. Unless we say that even after Merry stabbed him the Wk, who did not die by the way, any man could have come up and slain him! I know the many mistakes of the Jackson movies, I have no quarrel with them just the unfair disposition of this thread to ensure a win for the LOTR side...

@theONEtaichou said:

@Laurcus said:

@theONEtaichou said:

I came back and hell has come to this forum battle... the re-interpretation of LOTR to ensure it wins is freakin' amazing... now man is a race not a sex? Which movies or books are you guys watching/reading?? Then how did Eowyn kill the nazgul leader? geez... if no MAN can kill him then why did he die, if man cannot kill him then a woman can... as shown by both movies and Tolkien himself by having a woman kill him. LOTR magical beings can't be affected by magic from HP universe? what the hell, its a battle ain't it?

I know this post is 5 days old, but I felt like commenting on it anyway.

If you've actually read the books, the Witch King wasn't killed by Eowyn, he was killed by Merry. Merry struck him with the Blade of Westernesse given to him by Tom Bombadil. That one shotted him. Peter Jackson horribly misinterprets many scenes. This isn't even his biggest lore mistake. His biggest mistake by far was Aragorn receiving Anduril from Elrond before entering the Paths of the Dead. First off, by the timeline, Elrond was in Mirkwood sieging Dol Guldur at that time, so he couldn't have been there. Aragorn did however get a package from some Dunedain rangers. A long thin object wrapped in cloth. Somehow, Peter Jackson misinterpreted that as being Anduril, even though Aragorn has had Anduril with him for years, or at least part of it, he shows Sam the hilt in the Prancing Pony, and it gets reforged when they go to Rivendell. It's never directly explained what they gave him, but in the battle of Pelennor Fields when Aragorn takes the southerners ships he just so happens to have a banner that has the mark of Elendil on it, the symbol that the true king of Gondor had returned. This was pretty much the main point of the first book in Return of the King, and it went completely over Peter Jackson's head.

And Man is a race in LOTRs. You should read the books again.

I'm sorry but the WK was killed by Eowyn not Merry... who dealt the killing blow on the WK? Was it not Eowyn... Tolkien is the one who put that in his books. Unless we say that even after Merry stabbed him the Wk, who did not die by the way, any man could have come up and slain him! I know the many mistakes of the Jackson movies, I have no quarrel with them just the unfair disposition of this thread to ensure a win for the LOTR side...

Eowyn did not deal the killing blow to the Witch King. In the books, Merry stabbed him in the foot, the enchant on his blade killed the Witch King, then as he fell Eowyn noticed the gap in his defenses and stabbed him through the vizor, but he was already dead. Eowyn alludes to this in chapter 9 The Last Debate when she complains that Aragorn wishes for her to stay behind in Gondor, saying that she hasn't yet had a chance to earn any glory for herself in this war, and because of that she didn't want to miss the final battle, especially if it was a suicide mission.

@Laurcus said:

@theONEtaichou said:

@Laurcus said:

@theONEtaichou said:

I came back and hell has come to this forum battle... the re-interpretation of LOTR to ensure it wins is freakin' amazing... now man is a race not a sex? Which movies or books are you guys watching/reading?? Then how did Eowyn kill the nazgul leader? geez... if no MAN can kill him then why did he die, if man cannot kill him then a woman can... as shown by both movies and Tolkien himself by having a woman kill him. LOTR magical beings can't be affected by magic from HP universe? what the hell, its a battle ain't it?

I know this post is 5 days old, but I felt like commenting on it anyway.

If you've actually read the books, the Witch King wasn't killed by Eowyn, he was killed by Merry. Merry struck him with the Blade of Westernesse given to him by Tom Bombadil. That one shotted him. Peter Jackson horribly misinterprets many scenes. This isn't even his biggest lore mistake. His biggest mistake by far was Aragorn receiving Anduril from Elrond before entering the Paths of the Dead. First off, by the timeline, Elrond was in Mirkwood sieging Dol Guldur at that time, so he couldn't have been there. Aragorn did however get a package from some Dunedain rangers. A long thin object wrapped in cloth. Somehow, Peter Jackson misinterpreted that as being Anduril, even though Aragorn has had Anduril with him for years, or at least part of it, he shows Sam the hilt in the Prancing Pony, and it gets reforged when they go to Rivendell. It's never directly explained what they gave him, but in the battle of Pelennor Fields when Aragorn takes the southerners ships he just so happens to have a banner that has the mark of Elendil on it, the symbol that the true king of Gondor had returned. This was pretty much the main point of the first book in Return of the King, and it went completely over Peter Jackson's head.

And Man is a race in LOTRs. You should read the books again.

I'm sorry but the WK was killed by Eowyn not Merry... who dealt the killing blow on the WK? Was it not Eowyn... Tolkien is the one who put that in his books. Unless we say that even after Merry stabbed him the Wk, who did not die by the way, any man could have come up and slain him! I know the many mistakes of the Jackson movies, I have no quarrel with them just the unfair disposition of this thread to ensure a win for the LOTR side...

Eowyn did not deal the killing blow to the Witch King. In the books, Merry stabbed him in the foot, the enchant on his blade killed the Witch King, then as he fell Eowyn noticed the gap in his defenses and stabbed him through the vizor, but he was already dead. Eowyn alludes to this in chapter 9 The Last Debate when she complains that Aragorn wishes for her to stay behind in Gondor, saying that she hasn't yet had a chance to earn any glory for herself in this war, and because of that she didn't want to miss the final battle, especially if it was a suicide mission.

Merry stabbed him in the knee, Eowyn thus killed him by stabbing him between crown and visor... Again the killing blow still came from Eowyn, did the Wk die after merry stabbed him or after Eowyn stabbed him! If before then Merry did, if after then Eowyn did.

Here is quote from the Return...

Merrys sword had stabbed him from behind, shearing through the black mantle, and passing up beneath the hauberk had pierced the sinew behind his mighty knee. Eowyn! Eowyn! cried Merry. Then tottering, struggling up, with her last strength she drove her sword between crown and mantle, as the great shoulders bowed before her. The sword broke sparkling into many shards. The crown rolled away with a clang. Eowyn fell forward upon her fallen foe.

Voldemort and Death Eaters win... they can just create a whole bunch of flying fire monsters and send them to eat up all of Sauron's army while hiding behind a giant magical barrier.

Witch King? You've got to be joking. Let's see how he fares against an army of giant flying fire snakes... he'll be completely toast. If he gets close enough to Volde he'll be smited with a Mind Control curse or turned into a ferret.

Sauron has almost zero feats in the books or the movies... just a big scary reputation for being ''unstoppable (and yet still somehow getting defeated by a mere mortal with a sword and zero magic in combat).''

Really? Gandalf, an istari(or a limited maia who is according to most less powerful than Sauron even as olorin) is able to use his magic to break staves, set swords on fire and leave legolas' arms dangling at his sides without even touching any of them. Also, he is able to use fire and shields and he can use his staff to thump the ground and it sends thousands of orcs( or any being of any army for that matter) flying into the air instantly destroying them! Suppose he did this to the death eaters and voldy. They would also go flying and supposing voldy is even half as powerful in body as all of you say he is gravely injured( instead of destroyed) while the other death eaters are destroyed. Voldy's wand most certainly slips and I can bet that he will be too damaged to do any kind of sorcery. Now imagine the witch king who also has these abilities( maybe they wont be as effective as when gandalf does it but they'll be quite effective) He did after all break the solid gates of minas tirith without touching them. So all nine of the Nazgul and Sauron who has no limitations on his full maia power? They would absolutely rape Voldemort and his death eaters! No contest here what so ever! More of a match for Voldemort and his death eaters would be I don't know maybe one of the very powerful elves who have no such aggressive magical abilities but are quick and skilful. But even so, Voldy and death eaters would be hard pressed to win.

Voldemort was defeated by a 17 year old....Sauron is practically a god and his army is almost infinite due to the fact that they can make more Uruk-hai, Sauron stomps.

" There befell the battle of Huan and Wolf-Sauron, and the howls and baying echoed in the hills, and the wathers on the walls of Ered Wethrin across the valley heard it afar and were dismayed. "

From Ered Wethrin to Tol Sirion is approximately 150 miles.

"They took Dol Guldur, and Galadriel threw down its walls and laid bare its pits, and the forest was cleansed.” - She's capable of destroying Dol Guldur and Sauron's even more powerful than her.

"Then Morgoth sent forth a terrible cry, that echoed in the mountains. Therefore that region was called Lammoth; for the echoes of his voice dwelt there ever after, so that any who cried aloud in that land awoke them, and all the waste between the hills and the sea was filled with a clamour as of voices in anguish. The cry of Morgoth in that hour was the greatest and most dreadful that was ever heard in the northern world; the mountains shook, and the earth trembled, and rocks were riven asunder. Deep in forgotten places that cry was heard. Far beneath the ruined halls of Angband, in vaults to which the Valar in the haste of their assault had not descended, Balrogs lurked still, awaiting ever the return of their Lord; and now swiftly they arose, and passing over Hithlum they came to Lammoth as a tempest of fire." - Morgoth's scream reaches all the way to Angband/Thangorodrim, calling for Balrogs, and freeing Morgoth from Ungoliant. From the gates in that picture all the way to Lammoth is at least over 300 miles. They arrived in time to save Morgoth. Sauron is a maia as well, and could very well move at such speeds himself.

Sauron will likely speed blitz all of them.

Witch king solos, his black magic literally dwarfs any other from harrypotter, he will enslave voldermorts forces and bend voldermorts to his will

I think we are all forgetting the Nazguls' powers:

The Nazgûl were untouchable to mortal men, unless attacked with enchanted weapons. Their own weapons included long swords of steel, daggers, and poisonous darts. Their leader possessed a powerful black mace and a large flail as well. Their arsenal of deadly armaments was not confined to physical means; they also had powerful voices, which brought terror into the hearts of mortals. They wore hauberks of silver mail and had enhanced senses, the greatest of which was their sense of smell.

The Nine could communicate telepathically. They do not see during the day as mortals do; instead they see shadowy forms. During the night they see many signs and forms invisible to mortal eyes; it is at night that they are to be feared most. They can smell the blood of living things, and they desire and hate it. Their presence can be felt as a troubling of the heart, and they can more keenly feel the presence of others. At all times, they sense the presence of the Ring and are drawn to it.

They were surrounded by an aura of terror, which affected all living creatures; their aura (called the Black Breath) could be toxic to those hapless enough to come near them. Of course, their horrible cries put many a battle-hardened warrior to flight as well. Some of the Nazgûl appear to have been accomplished sorcerers and used magic to devastating effect. The fear the Nine inspired was one of their greatest strengths. According to Gandalf, if Sauron regained the One, they would become vastly more powerful. However, it is unclear as to how. However, as Sauron's strength grew through the books, the Nazgûl became obviously more powerful. In the Fellowship of the Ring, the Nazgûl's cries were simply unnerving to the hobbits (this may possibly be explained because it was important that the Hunt of the Ring remained in secrecy so they might have diminished their auras, and they did not have the rings of power), and they appeared to be physically weak, as five of them were driven off by Aragorn with two burning sticks. Additionally, Gandalf the Grey managed to hold off the entire Nine single handedly on Weathertop. In The Return of the King however, their cries are powerful enough to send all but the most stout-hearted of Gondor's defenders into a state of helpless terror, and the Witch King in particular has become so powerful that he is a match for Gandalf the White (which of the two is the more powerful is not revealed).

-http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/Nazg%C3%BBl

As a Nazgûl, the Witch King had a wide arsenal of powers. Besides from the common Black Breath any weapon that touched the Witch-King should be destroyed (a fate that both Éowyn's sword and Merry's sword shared), and its bearer should be poisoned. The Witch-King was also a feared sorcerer, having powers over the physical world, breaking Frodo's sword with just a move of his hand, or weakening the Gates of Minas Tirith allowing Grond to break them. He was stronger at nighttime.

His power has fluctuated over the centuries, with the two peaks of his power being his campaign against Arnor and the final battle at Minas Tirith.

-http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/Witch-king_of_Angmar

Not to mention Sauron:

Like his master Morgoth, he is capable of altering the physical substance of the world around him by mere effort of will.

-http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/Sauron

Not to mention has powers like a god. Voldemort and the Death Eaters would crumble to the ground before Sauron. Also, in Middle-Earth everything evil naturally obeys and goes to Sauron. So yeah.

Riddle solo stomps!

Team Potter all rounds

I don't think people realize the sheer numbers in Sauron's army. We are talking about 100,000+ orcs, trolls, fell beasts, Nazgul, Easterlings, haradrim, and so on. The Wizards do not have superhuman stamina, they can only fight for so long before they will be overwhelmed.

Wizards are actually just humans. As pointed out above, they are impossibly outnumbered. They can't possibly do more than kill a little more than half of Sauron's army, if they are lucky.

Sauron

"Doubtless the Orcs despoiled them, but feared to keep the knives, knowing them for what they are: work of Westernesse, wound about with spells for the bane of Mordor." - Aragorn

So passed the sword of the Barrow-downs, work of Westernesse. But glad would he have been to know its fate who wrought it slowly long ago in the North-kingdom when the Dúnedain were young, and chief among their foes was the dread realm of Angmar and its sorcerer king. No other blade, not though mightier hands had wielded it, would have dealt that foe a wound so bitter, cleaving the undead flesh, breaking the spell that knit his unseen sinews to his will.

from Appendix A, The Kings of the Mark,

38 For her shield-arm was broken by the mace of the Witch-king; but he was brought of nothing, and

thus the words of Glorfindel long before to King Eärnur were fulfilled, that the Witch-king would not fall by the hand of man.

For it is said in the songs of the Mark that in this deed Éowyn had the aid of Théoden's esquire, and that he also was not a Man but a halfling out of a far country, though Éomer gave him honour in the Mark and the name of Holdwine. ([This Holdwine was none other than Meriadoc the Magnificent who was Master of Buckland.)


The prophecy had nothing to do with killing. It was that the Witch King wouldn't fall by the hand of man, and he didn't. Merry, a Hobbit not man (Man refers to mankind; I.E. humans); utilizing a blade of Westernesse (blades enchanted with magic to combat the forces of Mordor; I.E. the 9), struck the blow that unwound the Witch King. Eowyn simply stabbed him in the head after Merry took him down.

@rpottage: Really?!?! Please read comment #63 where I quote what actually happened in the battle and not accolades. Thank you

good day

Movie versions or book versions? Movie versions= Death eaters win. Book versions= Nazgul and Sauron Solo (not really but Sauron will take a much larger majority.)

@misterguyman:

the witch king could solo this entire fight

@neongamewave:

ummm no just no haha read the books of middle earth the nazgul out match voldermort

Round 1) Voldemort

Round 2) Sauron's army

Round 3) Voldemort

Round 4) Sauron's army

it seems to be easy to beat Sauron if you got the numbers.

Vold probably is stronger then Gand the White and only loses in his movie because of destiny

Voldemort lost to a baby and a 17 year old, Gandalf beat a balrog.

I don't get all the "Movie Sauron loses but Books Sauron stomps". There is nothing in the books, except implied power, that tells us that Sauron is immensely more powerful than what is shown in the movies.

I agree with this, and also happened to learn quite a bit from this post.

Eowyn and Merry killed the Witch King. It is because the Witch King is not dead when Eowyn drives "her sword between crown and mantle" that the sword breaks and that her sword arm is stricken by the Black Breath (or Black Shadow). It is pretty obvious when you read the scene and pretty obvious that it was Tolkien's intentions. The Witch King states the prophecy "Hinder me? Thou fool. No living man may hinder me!" and Eowyn immediately reveals that she is a woman, not a man: "'But no living man am I! You look upon a woman." So much for man being used by Tolkien as a species and not a gender...

At the Houses of Healing, Eowyn does not complain to Faramir (not Aragorn) because she has gotten no glory during the battle but because she did not die "But I cannot lie in sloth, idle, caged. I looked for death in battle. But I have not died, and battle still goes on."

and "I wish to ride to war like my brother Éomer, or better like Théoden the king, for he died and has both honour and peace."And nothing suggests that the daggers of Westerness had that "special enchantment designed to kill the Witch King instantly should one ever cut him". Come on, who can believe that the smiths of Arnor put that kind of spell on the weapons they were forging ? "Hey, here is our enemy, he is very very powerful so let's just put an enchantment on the swords that will one shot him, even if we strike him in the ankle".

Is this 3rd age Sauron, second age Sauron, or 1st age Sauron?

B/c 1st age Sauron was definitely the strongest, even as a trusted lieutenant of Morgoth's army because of his allies. 2nd Age Sauron had millions of troops while 3rd age Sauron only had 100s of thousands.

1 voldemort

2 sauron

3 sauron

4 sauron

Having read both series, I gotta go with Sauron and his army, particularly if he has the ring. And don't forget his ability to dominate. Look at how he turned Saruman. I think it ends up with Voldemort being manipulated into the ranks.

round one goes to voldemort

round 2 the army because of nazguls

round 3 harder this time and with huge casualties but still army

round 4 lol death eaters run away like b$%@&es before nazgul

"Witch king was killled by a WOMAN with SWORD". Hmm heah, but before he was weakened by magic dagger from Tom Bombadil - probably the strongest and eldest magic being in Middle-earth. If its books versions that Witch King can break their wands by just moving his hand. And with all that "Avada kadavra nazgul is dead", you know that Sauron can resurrect nazguls in one second?

Sauron could potentially solo if he has One Ring, even if not Sauron's army still stomps.

@manofmanynames2: I don't think the army stomps by itself, especially with prep.

Voldemort can go invisible and mow down the approaching army with Fiendfyre, if he so chooses. Grindelwald, who is roughly comparable, was gonna burn down all of Paris, which would be more than enough for the Orcs and their beasts.

Nazgul are pretty featless tbh. Witch King supposedly can't die to a man's hand, but that's more of 'he won't die to a man'. A telling of the future, so it were.

For the same reason we can't say 'only Harry Potter can beat Voldemort', I wouldn't say the Witch King is invincible here. Even if he was, they have counters and ways to restrain him.

Magic is on its way out in Lord of the Rings. They simply lack abilities to harm things like Nazgul.

There's no reason to assume people who have spells against things like Dementors wouldn't be able to harm a Nazgul with similar, if not exact magic. And Sauron, though powerful, was not at the height of power and didn't manifest at all in Lord of the Rings. He wasn't even strong enough yet to manifest in his own realm and retrieve the ring when it was but a few miles from him. And I'm fairly certain it was specifically mentioned that he COULD see the ring when it was that close to him.

At the end of the day, the movie orcs were more powerful than the orcs in the book. Who were basically fodder. Even with armies upward of 10-20 times the size of the heroes, they consistently failed. No matter how many siege weapons, mythological beasts, or monsters were thrown into their midst. Even with the homefield advantage and against a damaged army, they failed to defend themselves and were ultimately wiped out.

I would side with the Potterverse. Granted, I've only read Lord of the Rings, the Hobbit and Sir Gawain, the Green Knight. But a lot of the Silmarillion happened long, long before the events of the Lord of the Rings. And it is later discussed that many of the beings of power were fleeting or losing power/interest in the mortal world.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

People keep saying "avada kadabra gg" but isn't AK useless if blocked? Would it be able to get through the orcs' armor?

And which army are we talking about? Movie time line or all together? Because other than being immeasurably massive... they also have all the crap from shadow of mordor games

Also saurumon is on sauron's side with his many spells.

Team voldermort, @hayabusa77: Theres always the lightning spell that destroyed the barrier surrounding hogwarts, the wizards fly faster (their ability to maneuver in air is also better and spells fly faster than arrows) than nazguls and spells like petrificus totallus, imperior, Confringo, and crusio can't be tanked.

@zuriel-el: i know other spells work. Im saying avada kadabra is useless against people in armor with shields and weapons blocking it.

Plus it helps to say which army of sauron. Each movie that shows an army, sauron pretty much outnumbers the death eaters. If we are only using movie armies that means: the battle of helms deep, the battle of minas tirith, sarumon's forces and tower, the goblins in the mountain, the brlrog and orcs, the battle of the five armies.... you see how massive that alone is right? Then if we add every other version. From the games to the books to the lore. Those forces dwarf all fantasy armies combined.

Then sarumon shook mountains with just his voice, and sauron is superior to him

@hayabusa77: Their numbers aren't enough to give an advantage, a hundred babies won't beat an adult. Voldermort has better quality, and they can cast spells all together to take out large portions of saurons army in one go. Imagine everyone of team HP casting a spell like confringo at the same time, not to mention they can form a similar barrier to the one uswd by the professors at Hogwarts, a dome that eviscerates enemies on contact around themselves. The orca simply get vapourized if they come near, and most of them aren't smart.

Saruman got beaten by an army of walking trees... Serously.

@hayabusa77: Also Aurelius Dumbledore actually broke a mountain with a random spell in fantastic beasts, crimes of grindelwald, we both Know he can't take on voldermort.