Lord Commander Dante (40k) vs Master Chief

@wut: who are u referring to? With the right gear yes, he can challenge and win against a Space marine if u read my post, he couldn't win against a space marine if it came down to UNSC weapons ( unless already stated the spartan laser ( which is a big IF ) )

@killerwasp: Give MC the equivalent 40k gear and put him against a Space Marine, and he is going to lose the majority of the time unless the OP stacks it by giving MC prep time and information on the Space Marines. It would be something like 8/10 in favor of the Space Marine.

Could he win? Sure. But it is unlikely.

@wut: who said about giving him 40k gear? If it's a bunch of no body space marines hes gonna win, if its some famous SM chapter he's going to lose, if its the covenant weapons he could win, if its forerunner weapons he's got a lot higher chances depending on what weapons are given to him. All in short Mc has the feats that can give him the win, and those two feats u showed are not the only feats hes got compared to a bunch of nobodies. Anyway as i said, hes losing to LCD regardless a chapter master is too much for him, and a veteran space marine is still too much for him.

@killerwasp: There is no such thing as feats for a 'nobody' marine. In order to find out what a 'nobody' marine can do, you look at other Space Marines and then create a 'baseline'.

Covenant weaponry isn't nearly as impressive as I think you believe. Giving him Imperium 40k gear would be helping him out.

The two feats I showed were his best armor feats.

@wut: Covenant weaponry is though, don't doubt it, and his best armor feats sure, but that doesn't mean he's losing to a few rounds when he's taken damage from heavy weapons both covenant, promethean and of course UNSC (aka really non factor for most guns).

also "Space Marines and then create a 'baseline'" <- wrong the space marines are inconsistent on this, it'd be like saying a baseline black templar is going to win against a base line space wolf or a base line Dark Angel is going to lose to a Angels of Iron space marine. Their too different the basic training mite be the same, but doesn't mean it is. Its similar to that of the IG ( not training but the difference between the space marines ).

@killerwasp: Not really. By 'nobody' marine, I would assume we are taking the most generic and 'baseline' space marine possible which would be an Ultramarine thanks to being the most 'popular' of Space Marines but also their geneseed is also the most numerous and 'stable'.

Covenant weaponry is not that tough as far as plasma goes in Sci-Fi. A bolter would be a far more generous gift then a plasma rifle. Not to mention Space Marine armor is great at dispersing heat which is what most of the Covenant weaponry revolves around.

There are very few book feats that have MC tanking weaponry fire.

@wut: incorrect, they still get affected by plasma fire and tau firepower, am i saying covenant weapons = tau no, that's just silly. but the covenant isnt just all about heat its about its weight, people seem to think simply that the plasma rifle = all covenant weapons and get their picture in their head and base it from there, which is not true.

Anyway "Not really. By 'nobody' marine, I would assume we are taking the most generic and 'baseline' space marine possible which would be an Ultramarine thanks to being the most 'popular' of Space Marines but also their geneseed is also the most numerous and 'stable'." <--- Which is what we are talking about, the very basics, the training that comes after depends. Just because u amp someone doesnt = they know what their doing. However, space marines do, just like spartans. Now am i saying that spartans = space marines no. However, mc has luck on his side which could give him the edge he needs to win a fight. Anyway if you want to see a great debate between the space marine and spartan feel free to go here and check it out.

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/yncg-master-chief-vs-cadencev2-space-marine-741103/

@killerwasp: Not even close to Tau or Imperial plasma fire as those plasma shots are hotter then suns. Not at all, some covenant weaponry, like the needler is impressive against unarmored foes and is very much a troll weapon to use in multiplayer. Others, such as the Fuel Rod cannon, is also a good weapon, however, 'standard' gear does not normally include heavy weaponry or anti-tank weaponry. I did not mean to sound like all covenant weaponry are equivalent to the Plasma rifle, merely that it is the 'most common' along with the plasma pistol. (The bolter to the boltpistol when compared to Space Marines most common weaponry.)

Funny enough, for 'standard' gear it is odd that MC was given forerunner weaponry. I have read numerous MC/Spartan IIs vs Space Marines. And participated in numerous. I know this debate very well. The fact he said that a Daemon Prince is nothing a Spartan II can't beat and that the Halo universe has tougher opponents and then talks about brutes does worry me a little as the example the Space Marine debater used (The one Titus killed) was not a full Daemon Prince and was halfway through his transformation. A Fully fledged Daemon Prince would stomp both of them at the same time.

Luck is that plot device/Plot Shields that have kept him alive. And while they should be taken into account as it is a crucial part to his character, but in order for him to win, he has to be given weapons that equal, or surpass, the space marines, so he can have that chance to overcome the Space Marines superior physique and armor. Which comes down to what I talked about before, stacking the OP.

Unless in special circumstances, Space Marine > Master Chief. Can Master Chief win? Sure. But it is not as likely as the Space Marine winning unless we cherry pick the feats allowed.

Kharn didn't "die" per se on Terra he passed out from exhaustion and his many wounds and went into a sort of coma. While he was in this coma the Khorne Champions were fighting about who was gonna lead and as soon as one of them drew blood Kharn was back on his feat.

Don't get me wrong i'm not saying Kharn would stand a chance in a fair fight Vs Angron. Angron would destroy Kharn. However Kharn went up against Angron without his power armor took a right beating from Angron who isn't known for self-control or holding back.

@wut: again your applying game stuff not lore, their weapons are considered to be extremely hot, around the heat of a sun yes... and unarmored people? neddlers do wonders to both... Anyway my point is i brought up the thread for u to look at, i really dont feel like debating this i've said my 2 cents and so on.

@killerwasp: No, the needler doesn't. Master Chief tanks needlers without his shields. Does not visibly hurt or slow him down. Covenant plasma is no where near as hot as the sun. You can see this from the way it is described in the novels as well as the damage it does to flesh.

I have seen the debate, and I just pointed out why showing another debate isn't a method of answering. The fact that the MC supporter said that a Daemon Prince is something a Spartan II could handle and that there are stronger things in Halo (Short of some Forerunner EU weaponry, there isn't) then uses that as a basis to describe brutes gives me a lot of doubts about the debate.

If you don't want to debate, then all you must do is say so.

I disagree that he's superior in speed. Space Marines even bog standard ones are really fast so fast infact they cause an effect called Transhuman dread:

Transhuman dread. Aximand had heard iterators talk of the condition. He’d heard descriptions of it from regular Army officers too. The sight of an Adeptus Astartes was one thing: taller and broader than a man could ever be, armoured like a demigod. The singularity of purpose was self-evident. An Adeptus Astartes was designed to fight and kill anything that didn’t annihilate it first. If you saw an Adeptus Astartes, you knew you were in trouble. The appearance alone cowed you with fear.

But to see one move. Apparently that was the real thing. Nothing human-shaped should be so fast, so lithe, so powerful, especially not anything in excess of two metres tall and carrying more armour than four normal men could lift. The sight of an Adeptus Astartes was one thing, but the moving fact of one was quite another. The psychologists called it transhuman dread. It froze a man, stuck him to the ground, caused his mind to lock up, made him lose control of bladder and bowel. Something huge and warlike gave pause: something huge and warlike and moving with the speed of a striking snake, that was when you knew that gods moved amongst men, and that there existed a scale of strength and speed beyond anything mortal, and that you were about to die and, if you were really lucking, there might be just enough time to piss yourself first.

-Age Of Darkness Page 163

Heck a bog standard Marine did this:

They came out from behind the trees around her, two, then three, then five, all told: five primuls in a circle around her, their eyes like murder for what she had done to their kin.

They threw themselves at her.

For many years afterwards, for the rest of her life, in fact, Perdet Suiton Antoni often wondered how none of them heard him coming. He was just there, suddenly. How could something that big move so fast and so silently, and appear without notice? Between the moment when the primuls began to spring and the moment when they would have fallen upon her, the giant appeared and interposed himself between her and the foul, pouncing creatures. It was almost as if he had stopped the flow of time and edited himself into that particular frame of it.

What followed lasted about three seconds.

-Brothers Of the Snake Page 62

Tactics again is also debateable a Marine averages about 150 years of age. They have enhanced brains that run through combat situations at incredible speed:

His battle-hardened mind assessed the relative strengths and weakness of the six soldiers without conscious thought: armament, distance, levels of combat effectiveness, routes of attack and escape calculated in less than a few panicked beatings of their hearts.

-Imperial Armor Vol 9 Page 46

or

Barsabbas counted the numbers with a cursory auspex sweep. He calculated the readout in his head, subtracting an estimation of noncombatant families and livestock signatures. The total, even with a generous estimate, would be no more than twenty thousand fighters. Twenty thousand men would amount to little more than a speed bump against a well drilled company of Chaos Space Marines.

-Blood Gorgons Page 95

or

The Word Bearer is almost unrecognisable. For a nanosecond, the figure registers to Luciel as an unknown, a threat.

Transhuman responses are already there, unbidden. Adrenaline spikes to heighten an already formidable reaction time. Muscle remembers. Luciel wears his boltgun, an oiled black pit bull of a weapon, in his thigh holster. He can draw, aim and fire in less than a second. The range is six metres, the target unobstructed. There is no chance of missing. Maximus plate, frontally augmented, might stop a mass-reactive shell, so Luciel will fire two and aim for the visor slits. The airgate skin-sleeve is self-repairing, and will survive las-fire damage, but a bolter shot will shred it open, so Luciel also braces for the explosive decompression of a ricochet or a miss-hit. At a simple, subconscious neural urge, boot-sole electromagnets charge to clamp onto the deck plates.

He can make a clean kill headshot in less than a second and a half, two rounds for kill insurance, and probably protect the atmospheric integrity of the airgate.

All this, all this decided, unbidden, instinctive, in less than a nanosecond.

-Dawn Of War Omnibus Page 258

Skill is also something that is debatable an average Marine trains for 21 hours a day in every single form of combat the Imperium has to offer.

If you want to learn about Space Marines here's a respect thread:

Space Marine Respect Thread (ignore the feat performed by Veq I can't edit the topic cuz for some reason it erases everything but Veq isn't a standard Marine so that feat doesn't count)

Ok, looks like Master Chief was put way out of his league.

Hmm, Sigmar vs Conan, could that be a thread worth of creating?

Jmarshmallow

@raestlin86: sigmar from warhammer fantasy?

@killerwasp: Yeah, that one

@raestlin86: bad match up, Sigmar would wreck, however +A for thinking outside the box though Its rare to see Fantasy being used its usually 40k

@killerwasp: How so? Haven't Conan killed some pretty tough opponents too?

@raestlin86: Yes and so had Sigmar, Simgar's opponents are tougher by a long shot being amped by four chaos gods, whom would wreck conan's universe alone, and of course fighting daemons whom are fighting at faster than the human eye, dealing with other races that are in the thousands on an everyday basis. their was a reason why he was called the god emperor, a legend, and i believe had a church after him for a reason

@killerwasp: True, having killed Nagash who is one of the most powerful beings in Old World even tho he is only a fraction now compared what he used to be.

Hmm, got any ideas who would be a good adversary for Nagash? I think i am going to say that Voldemort would be no match for him

@raestlin86: mhhh not sure, honestly im sure u can come up with something though ^^

@killerwasp: Gandalf at full power is out of the question as he would obliterate him.

Hmm, maybe Raistlin from Dragonlance?

The heavier UNSC weaponry can take down a space marine even without lasers.....

But this is no ordinary space marine. Dante takes this the majority 8/10's out of 10.

@raestlin86: mhhhh maybe, i'd check it with some people.

@jmarshmallow: If you want, I can show a feats showing Space Marine reaction times as well as move speed. They go from 60-100 kph.

EDIT: A more ludicrous one that I refuse to use has 45 kph as a walking speed. But that is... well... nonsensical.

@draciosv: No. Only a direct hit from the rocket launcher or Spartan Laser has any chance of killing a Space Marine if we use UNSC weaponry. The basic Space Marine weapon fires 20mm self-propelled diamatine tipped rockets that explode after penetration... this is their assault rifle and pistols. Space Marines have numerous different variants of the shell including one that instead of a secondary exploding charge is filled with adamantium to give it more weight and armor penetration. I can post feats of Space Marine armor tanking this bolter fire as well as autocannon fire.

@raestlin86: In all fairness, Sigmar was losing his fight with Nagash. His armor and the Nagash's crown that he was wearing gave him a boost and made him immune to Nagash's eye lasers, but in H2H, Nagash was beating him. Sigmar won by tossing Nagash's crown away which contains part of his soul which forced Nagash to drop his defenses and bend down to pick it up which opened him up to Sigmar's hammer.

@killerwasp: Maybe i should go with utter mismatch and pit Edward Cullen against Abhorash of the Blood Dragons :D

@wut: Where i can find that story about the duel between Sigmar and Nagash? I would like to read it.

@raestlin86: Time of Legends: God King.

There is a trilogy on Sigmar. The first one is when he fights the Orc at Blackfire pass and establishes the Empire. Second is when he fights a Chaos Invasion, last one is also his greatest feat which is fighting Nagash.

@wut: Thanks, going to check it out. So far i have been reading Old World related books about Gotrek and Mathias Thulman.

What do you think that would happen between Edward and Abhorash?

@raestlin86: Nothing, because they are nothing compared to Khorne and his Khorne flakes huehueheuhueheue XD

and Abhorash would smash Edward book or not. Warhammer is really amped up for both Fantasy and 40k. Things like a one book series is doubtful that they could win against a main character in Old world. I mean the guy is a beast. lol

@killerwasp: Indeed, i think there is very few things that could match Abhorash equally in Old World. Being one of the first generation of vampires ( I remember that in old army book he was given the Elixir of life to drink, not Neferata's blood). Also i doubt that Edward has ever killed anything in power like immense red dragon.

@raestlin86: biggest thing is Abhorash is very skilled and very deadly. Because of how long he has lived and what he has done ( even killing a dragon ) puts him on a very tough lvl for things like Twilight to take place, and agreed. However as i said don't let me stop you from creating ideas like so your more than welcome to ask others opinions on it as well. If you create a spite thread it wont be the end of the world especially with people whom many don't even know( of course WITHIN reason using like Queen Bee( the first one ) against Damian Wayne is very silly) , imo though it shows effort it shows you are trying to create an interesting fight without using many main stream characters.

Conan's universe is set in the same one as the Cthulhu Mythos

@raestlin86: The trilogy on Nagash are good reads. I enjoyed them. Detail his life from learning magic to the big spell of doom.

Anyways, hm... Abhorash doesn't appear much in lore. He is the patriarch of the Blood Dragon lineage which are the greatest of all Vampire warriors, and in turn, the greatest of all mortal warriors. We know that, as a younger vampire, he held off an entire Khemri army on the steps, but he did have to pull back, and I can't recall on how long he held.

We would have to use other vampires and power-scale them to see how strong Abhorash would be. We know he killed an ancient red dragon which are.... gigantic. Ancient dragons are... insane in the membrane large and powerful. We know he was the greatest of the Khemri warriors when he was alive and has only grown immensely more powerful because he is a vampire.

It is also important to note that every generation of vampire grows weaker as the 'curse' dilutes. The Original 13 are the mightiest, but Abhorash does have one glaring weakness. He will die in sunlight. The older the generation of Vampire, the weaker they are to sunlight thanks to Nagash's curse with the younger, and weaker, generations just being weakened in sunlight. But Abhorash no longer needs to feed on blood unlike Edward.

Skill wise, Abhorash will dominate Edward.

Speed? We would have to use a lot of power scaling to match or beat out Edward who isn't slow by any stretch of the imagination.

Strength is another one we would have to do a lot of power scaling for.

Anyways, I firmly believe Abhorash would win, but honestly, I think it would be a lot of work to prove it as all Edward debaters have to do is go to youtube while Abhorash debaters have to scour armybooks, novels, and google for insight into his power.

@jonny_anonymous: and? Cthulhu Mythos can't match this...

so in the end

and

'

XD

Seriously? Because that is just....like how is that even possible?

Jmarshmallow

@jmarshmallow: Yep, that is why I toss it out as nonsensical. It is in the Dawn of War omnibus which is full of... just... just... ugh. I mean... how in the world can they walk that fast?

If you want I can find it, but the one I like to use puts them at 80ish kph running, granted marine in question was injured, but it fits right in the middle which is 60-100 kph from various sources.

Space Marines may look big, but they are very, very fast.

Interesting...that's still only travel speed though, I need combat and reaction speed.

Jmarshmallow

@detrolord: LOL?

@jmarshmallow: I asked if you wanted reaction feats. I posted plenty already.

I'm just bored its so obvious Dante Stomp this

@detrolord: im laughing right now cause its hilarious xD. If your bored get back to work peon! XD

Haha but last one and serious probably?

@detrolord:

@wut: lol with that speech he reminds me of mayor west in family guy Lol.

@wut said:

@detrolord:

True True Hahahaa

@detrolord:

@detrolord: @killerwasp: There are a few others. They are all really good.

Magnus:

Mortarion:

@wut: lol but not as good as the IG XD LOL that would be something they'd say XD

However those are pretty funny stories mortarion is pretty funny. O and i almost forgot XD