Loki vs Mr. Miracle

VS.

Mr Miracle doesn't have access to the Anti-Life Equation, and Loki doesn't have access to any sources of power (magical or technological) other than his own. They receive only a few minutes' prep and the most basic info on their opponents ('by the ringside': "Introducing, in the Marvel Corner, Loki! The God of Mischief, Prince of Evil, Son of All Secrets, Lord of All Liars, etc, etc- no way I'm reading all of these nicknames out- and, in the DC corner, Mr Miracle! The Indomitable God of Escape!") prior to the battle, which takes place in the middle of a deserted Knowhere. Who wins?

Bumping- does anyone have any opinions about the likely outcome? Any feedback at all?

@sundeep:

In a blow for blow type of matchup, these two are pretty close strength wise. But I think that Mr. Miracle may have the edge considering that he was trained by Granny Goodness, Batman, and Black Canary. Not to mention that Orion, his wife Barda, and Lightray are frequent sparring partners of his. Loki is no slouch with a sword, so he does have that going for him.

I say Mr. Miracle 6/10. 10/10 if he can activate his Mother Box to interface with Knowhere...

Maybe Loki.

Loki, he still has his own magic.

True. And Loki's magic is extremely powerful, allegedly all but limitless. But Mister Miracle also still has his Alpha Effect powers, which are also alleged to reach almost unlimited levels.

I'd agree with that in-depth analysis, but I'd still be inclined to go 5/10, 50-50 between the two of them, on account of Mr. Miracle despising violence and being inclined towards pacifism, and Loki being a homicidal psychopath who's prepared to murder anyone on a whim.

But you have to consider that Loki always has a way of screwing people and he may have potions at his sleeve.

@sundeep:

I'd agree with that in-depth analysis, but I'd still be inclined to go 5/10, 50-50 between the two of them, on account of Mr. Miracle despising violence and being inclined towards pacifism, and Loki being a homicidal psychopath who's prepared to murder anyone on a whim.

Fair enough. It does stand to reason though that Mother Box would serve to frustrate/nullify all of Loki's mystical attempts on both Scott's form and life. Meaning that if Loki fired some crazy beam of mystical energy at him he could very likely dodge it, or Mother Box could convert it into something harmless or open up a pocket dimension and have the blast go there instead. Or if he tried to turn Mr. Miracle into a frog (as he is so willing to do to his brother Thor), Scott's Alpha Effect simply wouldn't allow it because transmutation is essentially someone/thing seeking to trap him in a form not his own. It would regard the "Thorfrog" spell (again, just as an example) the same way it would regard an Adamantium and/or Promethium cage or a rear naked choke. If it binds him, he's released from it. It's as simple as that.

Still, even though Scott is indeed his father's son and seeks after peace, it wouldn't take long for him to realize just how much of a threat Loki represents, and cause him to go "all out" to at least score the KO. Would he go for the kill strike? Well his step-brother and his wife certainly would, but I see him exhausting all methods open to him before it came to that (I wouldn't hold that against him though, as both Thor and Odin have a similar [though not identical] hang-up on delivering the deathblow to the Asgardian trickster:).

Loki puts him to sleep.

@darkraiden:

Loki puts him to sleep.

How so? With Mother Box providing a telepathic firewall for him (among many, many other things She's capable of), how does the trickster pull that off?

With....magic. He has sleep spells.

@darkraiden:

With....magic. He has sleep spells.

...... Perhaps I asked the wrong question. The New Gods (and their weapons) are empowered by the Source itself. This gives them the unique distinction among the comic book pantheons of being not just magical, but cosmic as well (since the Source is the literal nexuswhere cosmic energy and magic intersect within the DC Universe). With that said, I don't see Loki pulling off the sleep spell method with Her in the mix, considering just how familiar She is with mystical energy. Not to mention the fact that Scott can run and react at low supersonic speeds on foot. Much, much faster on his Aero-Discs.

Loki better watch himself or he might get beheaded in a single, purpose-minded blow to the throat. At 750 mph. Or faster...

I see him pulling it off just fine. Unless Miracle has feats to suggest otherwise. I mean...Loki's magic affects skyfathers.

Also, Loki moves faster than lightning and still functions/lives/moves after being beheaded. So that wouldn't do anything for Miracle. In fact, with that new info, Loki can beat him to death physically and likely never be touched.

But Mr Miracle's Alpha Effect energy also allows him to reincarnate anyone, including himself- or indeed, to keep anyone alive. So, does that imply that we could be looking at a stalemate?

Eh...more like perpetual torture that will eventually make Miracle just give up on life. That or Loki hypnotizes him or he could possibly bypass his Energy as he's done to the likes of Galactus.

Not sure if Loki's capable of that. After all, if Scott Free's relentless torture throughout his childhood by the cruellest, most depraved torturer on Apokolips wasn't enough to make him give up on life, why should Loki's torture be capable of cracking him? And if Loki finds himself on the back foot, it's pretty clear that he'd crack earlier and far easier than Mr Miracle would.

I think Loki would take this. Scott Free could take a good while to pin down, but most of the time he's presented as basically a street leveler (or low meta-human) with a lot of gadgets. He is agile and resourceful, but tends to lack in the raw power department. Loki is also resourceful, but has plenty of power, and is also just mean as hell.

Do you have any examples of Miracle utilizing this power? I don't really remember him ever doing much with it. And didn't he pretty much give it up anyway?

Nah, Miracle can't even cause Loki pain more than likely.

What feats does Loki have regarding speed and reaction time? Isn't Scott Free's speed and reaction time on foot comparable to that of Thor, and comparable to that of Mjolnir-aided Thor on his Aero-Disks? Surely Loki couldn't beat Thor to death physically and likely never be touched?

Loki turns him into snow

Mr Miracle has plenty of feats where he evaded and nullified mystical attacks, and escaped magical bondage. Somehow, I don't think he's an opponent where it's going to be as simple as Loki pulling off a one-shot victory by casting a single spell.

Lightning+speed and reacted to radio waves. Also unless Miracle has FTL reaction feats like Thor does.....and then remember that Loki's often too fast for Thor and Mjolnir to touch 99.9% of the time and he can't beat Thor to death usually because Thor has planet+++ durability...so yeah Loki can easily beat him to death. Especially if he utilizes his intangibility.

Being able to dodge lightning doesn't mean that you're faster than lightning. You might as well argue that Batman has lightning+speed. And when has Thor ever displayed FTL reaction times? FTL speed, sure, but only when flying with Mjolnir through deep space- and it would appear that Mr Miracle also displays the capability to travel at FTL speeds on his Aero-Disks through deep space. And is Loki too fast for Thor and Mjolnir to touch him 99.9% of the time, or is he simply too smart, too skilled at casting his illusions and misdirecting Thor's attacks? The New Gods of New Genesis are arguably just as strong, resilient and durable as the Asgardians, and Scott Free could be argued to approach or perhaps even surpass Thor's durability levels due to his command of the Alpha Effect- Loki may still be capable of functioning/living/moving after being beheaded, but so can Mr Miracle, just as easily.

I don't think Loki has ever actually dodged lightning. More he was stated and shown moving faster than thought and that same statement said he was faster than lightning.

Thor has shown FTL reactions when hitting and reacting to a blitzing Hyperion and Surfer.

As for Loki being too fast, he literally just dodges Thor's attacks. Not even using illusions. And has many times been stated to be too fast for Thor.

As for surpassing Thor's durability, has Miracle taken planet and star busting attacks as Thor has? doubtful. New Gods being as resilient as Asgardians means nothing since the average Asgardian isn't even close to planet level durability and Loki treats them like fodder.

Loki's too fast/powerful/durable for Miracle to touch or beat.

@darkraiden: 'Thor has shown FTL reactions when hitting and reacting to a blitzing Hyperion and Surfer.' Does that mean that The Wrecker has shown superior FTL reactions when hitting and reacting to a blitzing Thor? :P

Depends....was Thor flying at him with Mjolnir or just moving?

@sundeep:

Like you, I think it's unreasonable to think that a martial artist who can travel, react and fight at supersonic speeds (on foot) that is easily Class 40-45 would be unable to even harm Loki. That's preposterous.

Despite Loki's illusions (which Mother Box would see right through) and his intangibility (which She could neutralize by reconstituting his atoms back into solid form), he will eventually have to face Mr. Miracle and with Scott's indestructible body armor even Loki's swordplay (if indeed he's even allowed a sword here) will eventually fail him when it comes to h2h combat.

I mean, he's been trained in Granny's Orphanage, trains daily with his wife [the former leader of Darkseid's Furies], his step-brother the literal Fourth World God of War, and has also trained with Batman & Black Canary during his tenure with the JLA. He has a very good chance to soundly beat Loki like a drum here, even with the OP restrictions.

Both of those suck compared to Loki. Spidey at class 20 couldn't even get Loki to feel his hits. And Loki's much faster and stronger than that. Much, much. Easily class 100.

@darkraiden:

Both of those suck compared to Loki. Spidey at class 20 couldn't even get Loki to feel his hits. And Loki's much faster and stronger than that. Much, much. Easily class 100.

3 things:

1. Spider-Man's a good kid. Sure, he's been enraged at different points in his career (a.k.a. "going all out" strength wise), but 90+ percent of the time, he holds back his full powered blows out of habit. Remember, he doesn't just fight super-criminals but purse snatchers as well. You'd need to show me a scan of him mentally saying that he is absolutely laying into the Asgardian prince for your point to hold the water you want it to.
2. Spider-Man has only crossed the 20 ton baseline relatively recently. He spent decades hovering at (or slightly above) the Class 10 barrier. It was a big damn dealthat the Lizard (for example) was Class 12 and that Scorpion (again, for example) was Class 15. It illustrated just how much effort he had to exert in order to defeat these guys as well as guys even stronger than they are, but mostly through his cunning and duplicity, NOT overt slugfests. So you'd also have to scanify Spider-Man blasting Loki in the Post-"Other" era to reinforce your position AND show that he is over the top pissed while he's at it for your position to maintain itself.
3. Loki's muscles and superhuman durability are above average by Asgardian standards in that he is Class 30 while your common, garden variety Asgardian is roughly Class 10-20. Impressive. Not as impressive as dear old dad or his step-brother, but impressive nonetheless. He can not, I repeat can not attain Class 100 levels without serious external devices/enchantments like the Norn Stones, the Cask of Eternal Winters, or some other mystical and/or cosmic artifacts. So their (he and Scott's) strength is roughly equivalent in this encounter considering that he wouldn't have any of those artifacts here in this battle.

1. You honestly believe that Spidey was holding back against Loki?

I mean Loki's also been hit by Thor and only dazed if you need other feats

3. Loki's toppled buildings in one hit and KO'd BRB and thor before with physical attacks. He's easily class 100

Look at those scans, Loki's easily class 100 with super durability. people stronger than Miracle have hit him and he's been fine.

@darkraiden:

1. You honestly believe that Spidey was holding back against Loki?

I think that Spider-Man has a 40+ year track record of NOT opening up full throttle against his opponents from the jump. He often hits his opponents with what he hopes is enough force for them to get the message before he starts throwing "I hope Morlun feels these hits" level hits.

I mean Loki's also been hit by Thor and only dazed if you need other feats

This proves what we both have always agreed on: That Loki has astounding blunt force resilience. So does Scott. But Loki doesn't have the benefit of indestructible body armor to further increase his durability, Scott does. He won't be as easily dispatched as you assume.

3. Loki's toppled buildings in one hit and KO'd BRB and thor before with physical attacks. He's easily class 100

Well, so has the Scorpion with a swipe of his tail, but he isn't even in the neighborhood of the "Class 100" club. That said, you don't have to be at that particular strength bracket to cause pain to someone in the C 100 club. How else would Luke Cage KO the Rhino with just physical force? Simple. By knowing WHERE to hit (being best friends with a Black Belt in Kung Fu has its advantages) with all of your might. Scott is a very skilled fighter, complete with pressure point strikes. Loki is not Class 100, but he does have some impressive striking feats. I'll give him that. Though unfortunately, none of the links to the scans you provided led me to their intended destination. Phooey.

Look at those scans, Loki's easily class 100 with super durability. people stronger than Miracle have hit him and he's been fine.

Again, we're back to his resistance to blunt force trauma. None of which will help him with superhuman pressure point strikes and/or submission holds. Don't forget, if he tries to go intangible during this battle it would be an easy task for Mother Box to reassemble his atoms back to solid form again in an instant. Not to mention that the faster an object travels, the more mass it acquires. Scott is very fast with or without his Aero-Discs and combined with his strength and accuracy of attack could do some serious damage here. Hey @ancient_0f_days, @g_man and @matchesmalone21, do you guys have any scans of Mr. Miracle that you can spare?

You're aware that Rhino has been hurt by people much weaker than Luke and that Luke is minimum class 70 and has caused earthquakes with his hits?

You are also aware that when Loki goes intangible, he's in another dimension entirely and Mother Box can't do anything to him right? If mountain shattering hits from Thor can't KO Loki, I don't see Miracle doing much.

The links work btw.

@darkraiden:

You're aware that Rhino has been hurt by people much weaker than Luke and that Luke is minimum class 70 and has caused earthquakes with his hits?

Yes and no:

• Yes, Rhino has indeed been defeated by people weaker than Luke, but that's mostly because of his raging incompetence and being outsmarted.
• No, Luke Cage isn't Class 70. He HAS come a very long way considering that back in the 70's he was a low level superhuman (Class 3), but over the years [and with subsequent treatments] his current strength level is around Class 25. It came down to using the strength deficit as an advantage by knowing WHERE to hit (again, thank you Iron Fist).

You are also aware that when Loki goes intangible, he's in another dimension entirely and Mother Box can't do anything to him right? If mountain shattering hits from Thor can't KO Loki, I don't see Miracle doing much.

One of the many, many, many skills Mother Box has access to is the ability to traverse dimensions. And retrieve people/objects from said dimensions to the destination of Her choice. Scott need not bench as much as Thor to score a win here. And what little I know of Knowhere, it's plausible that Scott and/or Mother Box could possibly manipulate the energies there and weaponize them. Loki could also have his neck broken as an aside.

The links work btw.

Maybe my computer is acting goofy. Hmm...

1. You're completely wrong about Luke. He's oneshotted Thing and She-Hulk and hurt Namor now and NEVER has it been mentioned he knows where to hit. He's class 70 now. period.

2. Loki too can traverse dimensions and force people to teleport to where he wishes. The Motherbox doesn't have feats to do anything to Loki that he can't prevent. We already established that Miracle can't break Loki's neck as he's too weak and that breaking Loki's neck doesn't affect him at all.

There's simply nothing Miracle can do to Loki. He's not durable enough to take his attacks or powerful enough to even make Loki blink nor is he fast enough to touch Loki. Hell, Loki can just go invisible and Miracle can't even see him (worked on Odin and Mephisto). Loki's herald level++, Miracle isn't close.

Mister Miracle would destroy loki i mean destroy him asgard gonna be upset when they see loki head on a platter for thor to cry over

Oh is he more powerful than Silver Surfer, Surtur and Odin? I didn't know that. Enlighten me. Also decapitation would mean Loki's still alive. Just saying.

Loki still stomps

Mister Miracle Wins He stronger faster better tech. Loki some events is pis he and SS or him and Odin. Usally thor can take Loki eventually. Thor takes it easy bc of Family but MM dosent know Loki so why should he care

Loki stomps hard. Tf

Mister Miracle definitely.

Miracle ftw