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#1 Edited by dawsey28 (217 posts) - - Show Bio

Loki vs Flash

Round 1:

Loki vs Barry Allen

Location: Abandoned city unfamiliar to both.

Rules: Both get 2 days Preptime, No BFRs/Ringouts, They start the battle at opposite sides of the city.

Loki powers:( Loki's powers include but are not limited to: Transmutation, Making copies of himself, Illusions, Cloaking, Phasing, Size and Shape shifting, Teleportation, Matter/Temporal/Energy manipulation, Psionic abilities, Hypnosis, Mental Projections, Telekinesis, Telepathy, Summoning, Binding, Enchanting objects, Cursing, Strength Sapping and Transfer, Mastery of Elements, Distortion Spells, Intelligence)

Barry Allen powers:(Barry Allen's powers include but are not limited to: Super speed, Phasing, Creating winds/tornadoes, Speed Force, Intelligence, Invisibility)

____________________________________________________________________________________

Round 2:

Loki vs Wally West

Location: Abandoned city unfamiliar to both.

Rules: Both get 2 days Preptime, No BFRs/Ringouts, They start the battle at opposite sides of the city.

Loki powers:( Loki's powers include but are not limited to: Transmutation, Making copies of himself, Illusions, Cloaking, Phasing, Size and Shape shifting, Teleportation, Matter/Temporal/Energy manipulation, Psionic abilities, Hypnosis, Mental Projections, Telekinesis, Telepathy, Summoning, Binding, Enchanting objects, Cursing, Strength Sapping and Transfer, Mastery of Elements, Distortion Spells, Intelligence)

Wally West powers:(Wally West's powers include but are not limited to: Super speed, Creating winds/tornadoes, Speed Force, Speed stealing/borrowing/lending, IMP)

#2 Posted by chucknorrisreturned (284 posts) - - Show Bio

Flash.

#3 Posted by RainEffect (3376 posts) - - Show Bio

Whoever drew that image of Loki deserves to be bludgeoned in the face.
 
Repeatedly.

#4 Posted by Dommed_Cannon (509 posts) - - Show Bio

@RainEffect said:

Whoever drew that image of Loki deserves to be bludgeoned in the face. Repeatedly.

But Loki looks so happy!

#5 Posted by GTG12 (1584 posts) - - Show Bio

flash

#6 Posted by Illuminatus (9578 posts) - - Show Bio
@RainEffect said:
Whoever drew that image of Loki deserves to be bludgeoned in the face.  Repeatedly.
He looks like Greg Kinnear's mentally challenged cousin.
#7 Posted by Dark Cloud™ (2805 posts) - - Show Bio

Loki.

#8 Posted by Illuminatus (9578 posts) - - Show Bio
@Dark Cloud™ said:

Loki.

How?
#9 Posted by Dark Cloud™ (2805 posts) - - Show Bio

@Illuminatus said:

@Dark Cloud™ said:

Loki.

How?

Assuming Loki cuts the Flashes off from the source of their power, the Speed Force.

#10 Posted by Illuminatus (9578 posts) - - Show Bio
@Dark Cloud™ said:

@Illuminatus said:

@Dark Cloud™ said:

Loki.

How?

Assuming Loki cuts the Flashes off from the source of their power, the Speed Force.

Do you really think Loki perform such an action with only two days of prep? Flash is arguably a much faster thinker than Loki, and will be able to have far more extensive prep than Loki in the same amount of time. 
 
How does Loki even asses what the Speed Force is?
#11 Posted by dawsey28 (217 posts) - - Show Bio

I am considering to changing the pic. He does look kinda goofy.

#12 Posted by Dark Cloud™ (2805 posts) - - Show Bio

@Illuminatus said:

@Dark Cloud™ said:

@Illuminatus said:

@Dark Cloud™ said:

Loki.

How?

Assuming Loki cuts the Flashes off from the source of their power, the Speed Force.

Do you really think Loki perform such an action with only two days of prep? Flash is arguably a much faster thinker than Loki, and will be able to have far more extensive prep than Loki in the same amount of time. How does Loki even asses what the Speed Force is?

This is only speculation. We know not of what either would do. Both have two days of prep time? Loki would be able to access information beyond the realm of Earth, perhaps retain knowledge of the Speed Force and how to block the Flashes from the source, especially since Loki can manipulate energies. Flashes having a faster working mind doesn't mean they automatically win in that department.

#13 Posted by Illuminatus (9578 posts) - - Show Bio
@Dark Cloud™ said:

@Illuminatus said:

@Dark Cloud™ said:

@Illuminatus said:

@Dark Cloud™ said:

Loki.

How?

Assuming Loki cuts the Flashes off from the source of their power, the Speed Force.

Do you really think Loki perform such an action with only two days of prep? Flash is arguably a much faster thinker than Loki, and will be able to have far more extensive prep than Loki in the same amount of time. How does Loki even asses what the Speed Force is?

This is only speculation. We know not of what either would do. Both have two days of prep time? Loki would be able to access information beyond the realm of Earth, perhaps retain knowledge of the Speed Force and how to block the Flashes from the source, especially since Loki can manipulate energies. Flashes having a faster working mind doesn't mean they automatically win in that department.

Very interesting theory. You don't think that Loki would have a hard time finding a safe way to cut the Flashes from the Speed Force? 
 
And I never inferred that the Flashes having a faster thought process assured them victory by default. I simply stated as something that should be kept in mind when formulating a theory/opinion.
#14 Posted by Dark Cloud™ (2805 posts) - - Show Bio

@Illuminatus said:

@Dark Cloud™ said:

@Illuminatus said:

@Dark Cloud™ said:

@Illuminatus said:

@Dark Cloud™ said:

Loki.

How?

Assuming Loki cuts the Flashes off from the source of their power, the Speed Force.

Do you really think Loki perform such an action with only two days of prep? Flash is arguably a much faster thinker than Loki, and will be able to have far more extensive prep than Loki in the same amount of time. How does Loki even asses what the Speed Force is?

This is only speculation. We know not of what either would do. Both have two days of prep time? Loki would be able to access information beyond the realm of Earth, perhaps retain knowledge of the Speed Force and how to block the Flashes from the source, especially since Loki can manipulate energies. Flashes having a faster working mind doesn't mean they automatically win in that department.

Very interesting theory. You don't think that Loki would have a hard time finding a safe way to cut the Flashes from the Speed Force? And I never inferred that the Flashes having a faster thought process assured them victory by default. I simply stated as something that should be kept in mind when formulating a theory/opinion.

I figure that the Flashes are limited to the knowledge they can acquire while being mortal. Loki has the advantage as I feel he has a broader genre of information to gather, concerning his heritage. I'm certain he'd have a difficult time finding whatever he needed, as nothing is exactly free or quick to receive.

#15 Posted by Deadcool (6919 posts) - - Show Bio

Loki, in the OP says that he would be allowed to have:

Transmutation, Making copies of himself, Illusions, Cloaking, Phasing, Size and Shape shifting, Teleportation, Matter/Temporal/Energy manipulation, Psionic abilities, Hypnosis, Mental Projections, Telekinesis, Telepathy, Summoning, Binding, Enchanting objects, Cursing, Strength Sapping and Transfer, Mastery of Elements, Distortion Spells, Intelligence

Explain me how is Flash going to win against this?

#16 Posted by Illuminatus (9578 posts) - - Show Bio
@Dark Cloud™ said:

@Illuminatus said:

@Dark Cloud™ said:

@Illuminatus said:

@Dark Cloud™ said:

@Illuminatus said:

@Dark Cloud™ said:

Loki.

How?

Assuming Loki cuts the Flashes off from the source of their power, the Speed Force.

Do you really think Loki perform such an action with only two days of prep? Flash is arguably a much faster thinker than Loki, and will be able to have far more extensive prep than Loki in the same amount of time. How does Loki even asses what the Speed Force is?

This is only speculation. We know not of what either would do. Both have two days of prep time? Loki would be able to access information beyond the realm of Earth, perhaps retain knowledge of the Speed Force and how to block the Flashes from the source, especially since Loki can manipulate energies. Flashes having a faster working mind doesn't mean they automatically win in that department.

Very interesting theory. You don't think that Loki would have a hard time finding a safe way to cut the Flashes from the Speed Force? And I never inferred that the Flashes having a faster thought process assured them victory by default. I simply stated as something that should be kept in mind when formulating a theory/opinion.

I figure that the Flashes are limited to the knowledge they can acquire while being mortal. Loki has the advantage as I feel he has a broader genre of information to gather, concerning his heritage. I'm certain he'd have a difficult time finding whatever he needed, as nothing is exactly free or quick to receive.

Very true, and I'm compelled to agree with you. It's entirely conceivable that Loki could either use a spell/item to cut the Speed Force off from the Flashes, or that he could find a spell powerful enough to prevent the Flashes from even moving. 
 
However, if this had been a random encounter between Loki and the Flashes, I would dispute that Loki would not fare well against them.
#17 Edited by Dark Cloud™ (2805 posts) - - Show Bio

@Illuminatus said:

@Dark Cloud™ said:

@Illuminatus said:

@Dark Cloud™ said:

@Illuminatus said:

@Dark Cloud™ said:

@Illuminatus said:

@Dark Cloud™ said:

Loki.

How?

Assuming Loki cuts the Flashes off from the source of their power, the Speed Force.

Do you really think Loki perform such an action with only two days of prep? Flash is arguably a much faster thinker than Loki, and will be able to have far more extensive prep than Loki in the same amount of time. How does Loki even asses what the Speed Force is?

This is only speculation. We know not of what either would do. Both have two days of prep time? Loki would be able to access information beyond the realm of Earth, perhaps retain knowledge of the Speed Force and how to block the Flashes from the source, especially since Loki can manipulate energies. Flashes having a faster working mind doesn't mean they automatically win in that department.

Very interesting theory. You don't think that Loki would have a hard time finding a safe way to cut the Flashes from the Speed Force? And I never inferred that the Flashes having a faster thought process assured them victory by default. I simply stated as something that should be kept in mind when formulating a theory/opinion.

I figure that the Flashes are limited to the knowledge they can acquire while being mortal. Loki has the advantage as I feel he has a broader genre of information to gather, concerning his heritage. I'm certain he'd have a difficult time finding whatever he needed, as nothing is exactly free or quick to receive.

Very true, and I'm compelled to agree with you. It's entirely conceivable that Loki could either use a spell/item to cut the Speed Force off from the Flashes, or that he could find a spell powerful enough to prevent the Flashes from even moving. However, if this had been a random encounter between Loki and the Flashes, I would dispute that Loki would not fare well against them.

I agree. He wouldn't last a millisecond. Haha. Prep-time is his best friend.

#18 Posted by Illuminatus (9578 posts) - - Show Bio
@Dark Cloud™ said:

@Illuminatus said:

@Dark Cloud™ said:

@Illuminatus said:

@Dark Cloud™ said:

@Illuminatus said:

@Dark Cloud™ said:

@Illuminatus said:

@Dark Cloud™ said:

Loki.

How?

Assuming Loki cuts the Flashes off from the source of their power, the Speed Force.

Do you really think Loki perform such an action with only two days of prep? Flash is arguably a much faster thinker than Loki, and will be able to have far more extensive prep than Loki in the same amount of time. How does Loki even asses what the Speed Force is?

This is only speculation. We know not of what either would do. Both have two days of prep time? Loki would be able to access information beyond the realm of Earth, perhaps retain knowledge of the Speed Force and how to block the Flashes from the source, especially since Loki can manipulate energies. Flashes having a faster working mind doesn't mean they automatically win in that department.

Very interesting theory. You don't think that Loki would have a hard time finding a safe way to cut the Flashes from the Speed Force? And I never inferred that the Flashes having a faster thought process assured them victory by default. I simply stated as something that should be kept in mind when formulating a theory/opinion.

I figure that the Flashes are limited to the knowledge they can acquire while being mortal. Loki has the advantage as I feel he has a broader genre of information to gather, concerning his heritage. I'm certain he'd have a difficult time finding whatever he needed, as nothing is exactly free or quick to receive.

Very true, and I'm compelled to agree with you. It's entirely conceivable that Loki could either use a spell/item to cut the Speed Force off from the Flashes, or that he could find a spell powerful enough to prevent the Flashes from even moving. However, if this had been a random encounter between Loki and the Flashes, I would dispute that Loki would not fare well against them.

I agree. He wouldn't last a millisecond. Haha. Prep-time is his best friend.

Prep-time and plot protection.
#19 Posted by Lance Uppercut (23226 posts) - - Show Bio

@Deadcool said:

Loki, in the OP says that he would be allowed to have:

Transmutation, Making copies of himself, Illusions, Cloaking, Phasing, Size and Shape shifting, Teleportation, Matter/Temporal/Energy manipulation, Psionic abilities, Hypnosis, Mental Projections, Telekinesis, Telepathy, Summoning, Binding, Enchanting objects, Cursing, Strength Sapping and Transfer, Mastery of Elements, Distortion Spells, Intelligence

Explain me how is Flash going to win against this?

By punching Loki in the face repeatedly before he has time to react.

#20 Posted by Deadcool (6919 posts) - - Show Bio

@Lance Uppercut said:

By punching Loki in the face repeatedly before he has time to react.

In a random encounter you would be right my friend, but not here...

In two days of preptime what is Flash going to learn abot Loki, with matter/temporal/energy manipulation he could just stop the flash, with trasmutation he could transform Flash into air, with 2 days of prep-time he is able to travel and learn about Flash using someone from the DC universe that knows about the Speed Force, with Summoning he could just summon a threat to stop or distract Flash, etc.

#21 Posted by Killemall (18771 posts) - - Show Bio

@Deadcoolsaid:

@Lance Uppercut said:

By punching Loki in the face repeatedly before he has time to react.

In a random encounter you would be right my friend, but not here...

In two days of preptime what is Flash going to learn abot Loki, with matter/temporal/energy manipulation he could just stop the flash, with trasmutation he could transform Flash into air, with 2 days of prep-time he is able to travel and learn about Flash using someone from the DC universe that knows about the Speed Force, with Summoning he could just summon a threat to stop or distract Flash, etc.

  • The best i have seen loki do with Transmutation on a person, during a battle was, when he transmutated Kangs weapons into ice. Never seen him transmutate a living person into air at least not in a battle man i have highly skeptical about it.
  • He might be able to cut flash off the speed force if thats what you are thinking. but that would be the only way out.

#22 Posted by Lance Uppercut (23226 posts) - - Show Bio

@Deadcool said:

@Lance Uppercut said:

By punching Loki in the face repeatedly before he has time to react.

In a random encounter you would be right my friend, but not here...

In two days of preptime what is Flash going to learn abot Loki, with matter/temporal/energy manipulation he could just stop the flash, with trasmutation he could transform Flash into air, with 2 days of prep-time he is able to travel and learn about Flash using someone from the DC universe that knows about the Speed Force, with Summoning he could just summon a threat to stop or distract Flash, etc.

In the time it takes to cast a spell, Flash would have crossed that city a dozen times over. Loki doesn't have the reaction time or speed to fight either Flash.

#23 Posted by Deadcool (6919 posts) - - Show Bio

@Killemall said:

  • The best i have seen loki do with Transmutation on a person, during a battle was, when he transmutated Kangs weapons into ice. Never seen him transmutate a living person into air at least not in a battle man i have highly skeptical about it.
  • He might be able to cut flash off the speed force if thats what you are thinking. but that would be the only way out.

  1. He transmuted Bor (a Skyfather) into ice (It seems that loki loves Ice) and Thor into a frog.
  2. Yeah, Dark Cloud already said that.

@Lance Uppercut said:

In the time it takes to cast a spell, Flash would have crossed that city a dozen times over. Loki doesn't have the reaction time or speed to fight either Flash.

He is able to make copies from himself, and he is a shapeshifter, he can be another thing like a fly or a bacteria (Who knows?), and Flash would be attacking his copies.

#24 Posted by Lance Uppercut (23226 posts) - - Show Bio

@Deadcool: He turned Bor to ice when his mystical defenses were down. That being said, Bor isn't really as fast as the Flash. More durable most likely, but not nearly as fast.

I'm well aware of Loki's abilities. I'm incredibly partial to the character, and he has a lot of mystical prowess. But I don't see it being enough when you have an enemy who can strike you before you finish a sentence.

#25 Posted by Deadcool (6919 posts) - - Show Bio

@Lance Uppercut said:

@Deadcool: He turned Bor to ice when his mystical defenses were down. That being said, Bor isn't really as fast as the Flash. More durable most likely, but not nearly as fast.

I'm well aware of Loki's abilities. I'm incredibly partial to the character, and he has a lot of mystical prowess. But I don't see it being enough when you have an enemy who can strike you before you finish a sentence.

Question: Does Flash has mystical defeanses?

Well, Slade has defeated Flash, and the Rogues are able to fight him, if mere mortals are able to fight Flash, why can't a God?

#26 Posted by Lance Uppercut (23226 posts) - - Show Bio

@Deadcool said:

@Lance Uppercut said:

@Deadcool: He turned Bor to ice when his mystical defenses were down. That being said, Bor isn't really as fast as the Flash. More durable most likely, but not nearly as fast.

I'm well aware of Loki's abilities. I'm incredibly partial to the character, and he has a lot of mystical prowess. But I don't see it being enough when you have an enemy who can strike you before you finish a sentence.

Question: Does Flash has mystical defeanses?

Well, Slade has defeated Flash, and the Rogues are able to fight him, if mere mortals are able to fight Flash, why can't a God?

You know he doesn't. But I doubt he needs any.

Slade beating Flash is poor writing. I could only imagine you're talking about the occurrence back in the nineties which had Slade utilizing distraction. Flash has destroyed Slade before. You're kind of going in a really weird logical direction. The Rogues have nothing to do with Loki. Some of them are actually incredibly difficult to beat.

#27 Posted by Deadcool (6919 posts) - - Show Bio

@Lance Uppercut said:

You know he doesn't. But I doubt he needs any.

Slade beating Flash is poor writing. I could only imagine you're talking about the occurrence back in the nineties which had Slade utilizing distraction. Flash has destroyed Slade before. You're kind of going in a really weird logical direction. The Rogues have nothing to do with Loki. Some of them are actually incredibly difficult to beat.

They do nothing that Loki can't...

#28 Posted by yumyumbubblegum (633 posts) - - Show Bio

Loki is even more devilish than Mephisto

#29 Posted by dawsey28 (217 posts) - - Show Bio

#30 Posted by termiteone4ever (9518 posts) - - Show Bio

FLASH got this . Too much foolishness from both ends but flash has more foolishness feats under his belt to lose

#31 Posted by DCHERO15 (66 posts) - - Show Bio

From the DC wiki:

The Speed Force is a vaguely defined extra-dimensional energy force from which most superspeed-powered heroes draw their powers.
He has been able to casually move beyond the speed of thought, easily move so fast that even an attack moving at the speed of light seems to be standing still and at the same time scans the face of over five hundred thousand people for a specific expression in less than a picosecond.and even move so fast, that he exists everywhere at once.His speed is so immeasurable that he has moved and reacted by the attosecond (an attosecond is one quintillionth of a second.His ability to alter his own perception of time is so great, that if he wishes, the tick between a second can pass for millions of years

It's impossible to move faster than the flash, he can move faster than thought, even a God's thought, because we know that Loki is not omnipotent, and can not move at any speed he wishes. I also think that Barry Allen will win first round, most likely because he tends to take situations a lot more seriously, while Wally is more laid back and use his prep time with less care. The speed force only exists in the DC Universe, so Loki couldn't use his prep time to destroy it. Before you say, "then flash cant run fast when he fights loki then", Barry Allen created the Speed Force after speedsters like Jay Garrick, and that is possible because the Speed Force exists in all time in space. It also doesn't matter if he fights his copies, because the time it will take him to destroy all the copies will be a millisecond, if he fights with his full speed, which his prep time should tell him to do. None of Loki's mind control powers should work because Speedster's minds move a incredibly fast rate, which in mind control should not work.

"Flashes are able to avoid telepathic thought manipulation when he accelerates their brain activity."

#32 Posted by Exodu (30 posts) - - Show Bio

Flash FTW

#33 Posted by Montaq (944 posts) - - Show Bio

@Lance Uppercut said:

@Deadcool said:

@Lance Uppercut said:

@Deadcool: He turned Bor to ice when his mystical defenses were down. That being said, Bor isn't really as fast as the Flash. More durable most likely, but not nearly as fast.

I'm well aware of Loki's abilities. I'm incredibly partial to the character, and he has a lot of mystical prowess. But I don't see it being enough when you have an enemy who can strike you before you finish a sentence.

Question: Does Flash has mystical defeanses?

Well, Slade has defeated Flash, and the Rogues are able to fight him, if mere mortals are able to fight Flash, why can't a God?

You know he doesn't. But I doubt he needs any.

Slade beating Flash is poor writing. I could only imagine you're talking about the occurrence back in the nineties which had Slade utilizing distraction. Flash has destroyed Slade before. You're kind of going in a really weird logical direction. The Rogues have nothing to do with Loki. Some of them are actually incredibly difficult to beat.

I think what Deadcool is saying, or at least what I'm thinking, is that the Flash has been hit by non-speedsters before. You are saying that Loki can't hit him and he would just run up on him in a millisecond, but the Flash has had fights and been threatened by people much slower than him, and Loki, before. If Mirror Master can keep Flash busy for a few seconds than so can Loki and that's all the time he would need to cast a spell to take away his speed.

#34 Posted by Deadcool (6919 posts) - - Show Bio

@Montaq: EXACTLY!

#35 Posted by DCHERO15 (66 posts) - - Show Bio

@Montaq said:

@Lance Uppercut said:

@Deadcool said:

@Lance Uppercut said:

@Deadcool: He turned Bor to ice when his mystical defenses were down. That being said, Bor isn't really as fast as the Flash. More durable most likely, but not nearly as fast.

I'm well aware of Loki's abilities. I'm incredibly partial to the character, and he has a lot of mystical prowess. But I don't see it being enough when you have an enemy who can strike you before you finish a sentence.

Question: Does Flash has mystical defeanses?

Well, Slade has defeated Flash, and the Rogues are able to fight him, if mere mortals are able to fight Flash, why can't a God?

You know he doesn't. But I doubt he needs any.

Slade beating Flash is poor writing. I could only imagine you're talking about the occurrence back in the nineties which had Slade utilizing distraction. Flash has destroyed Slade before. You're kind of going in a really weird logical direction. The Rogues have nothing to do with Loki. Some of them are actually incredibly difficult to beat.

I think what Deadcool is saying, or at least what I'm thinking, is that the Flash has been hit by non-speedsters before. You are saying that Loki can't hit him and he would just run up on him in a millisecond, but the Flash has had fights and been threatened by people much slower than him, and Loki, before. If Mirror Master can keep Flash busy for a few seconds than so can Loki and that's all the time he would need to cast a spell to take away his speed.

Flash's speed just can't be "taken away". The speed force is not a mystical part of the universe. It exists in all of reality, all of time, space and all universes. It's a part of Physics, not a magical being. Also, you are also overestimating Loki's power. If Loki had the power to erase large force's like the speed force, then he would be a lot more powerful than people give him credit for, almost omnipotent. Now, I can see Flash's leg being broken by a spell, if that's what you mean. Also, people like mirror master are built to give speedster's a challenge. Mirror master can travel through dimensions, and see 20 seconds into the future.

#36 Posted by Montaq (944 posts) - - Show Bio

@Deadcool: I know right, its like no one understands the difference between theoretical Flash and comic Flash.

#37 Posted by Montaq (944 posts) - - Show Bio

@DCHERO15: He doesn't need to destroy the speed force, just Flash's connection to it.

#38 Posted by gravitypress (2102 posts) - - Show Bio

Loki would win.

#39 Posted by Deadcool (6919 posts) - - Show Bio

@Montaq: People is not even thinking at all, the OP gives to Loki time control, and people still saying that Flash would win.

#40 Posted by Montaq (944 posts) - - Show Bio

@Deadcool: I know, Loki is one of the toughest villains in marvel and with prep he is a monster and people are treating him like a sandbag for Flash to wail on. He is a super powerful sorcerer by god standards, hell he could accelerate his own time field and go zoom on his @$$.

#41 Posted by Deadcool (6919 posts) - - Show Bio

@Montaq: Man, where have you been? We need more users with common sense!

#42 Posted by difficlus (10659 posts) - - Show Bio

@DCHERO15 said:

From the DC wiki:

The Speed Force is a vaguely defined extra-dimensional energy force from which most superspeed-powered heroes draw their powers.
He has been able to casually move beyond the speed of thought, easily move so fast that even an attack moving at the speed of light seems to be standing still and at the same time scans the face of over five hundred thousand people for a specific expression in less than a picosecond.and even move so fast, that he exists everywhere at once.His speed is so immeasurable that he has moved and reacted by the attosecond (an attosecond is one quintillionth of a second.His ability to alter his own perception of time is so great, that if he wishes, the tick between a second can pass for millions of years

It's impossible to move faster than the flash, he can move faster than thought, even a God's thought, because we know that Loki is not omnipotent, and can not move at any speed he wishes. I also think that Barry Allen will win first round, most likely because he tends to take situations a lot more seriously, while Wally is more laid back and use his prep time with less care. The speed force only exists in the DC Universe, so Loki couldn't use his prep time to destroy it. Before you say, "then flash cant run fast when he fights loki then", Barry Allen created the Speed Force after speedsters like Jay Garrick, and that is possible because the Speed Force exists in all time in space. It also doesn't matter if he fights his copies, because the time it will take him to destroy all the copies will be a millisecond, if he fights with his full speed, which his prep time should tell him to do. None of Loki's mind control powers should work because Speedster's minds move a incredibly fast rate, which in mind control should not work.

"Flashes are able to avoid telepathic thought manipulation when he accelerates their brain activity."

lol at he moves faster than God's thought.

#43 Posted by Lance Uppercut (23226 posts) - - Show Bio

@Montaq said:

@Lance Uppercut said:

@Deadcool said:

@Lance Uppercut said:

@Deadcool: He turned Bor to ice when his mystical defenses were down. That being said, Bor isn't really as fast as the Flash. More durable most likely, but not nearly as fast.

I'm well aware of Loki's abilities. I'm incredibly partial to the character, and he has a lot of mystical prowess. But I don't see it being enough when you have an enemy who can strike you before you finish a sentence.

Question: Does Flash has mystical defeanses?

Well, Slade has defeated Flash, and the Rogues are able to fight him, if mere mortals are able to fight Flash, why can't a God?

You know he doesn't. But I doubt he needs any.

Slade beating Flash is poor writing. I could only imagine you're talking about the occurrence back in the nineties which had Slade utilizing distraction. Flash has destroyed Slade before. You're kind of going in a really weird logical direction. The Rogues have nothing to do with Loki. Some of them are actually incredibly difficult to beat.

I think what Deadcool is saying, or at least what I'm thinking, is that the Flash has been hit by non-speedsters before. You are saying that Loki can't hit him and he would just run up on him in a millisecond, but the Flash has had fights and been threatened by people much slower than him, and Loki, before. If Mirror Master can keep Flash busy for a few seconds than so can Loki and that's all the time he would need to cast a spell to take away his speed.

I get what he's saying, but he's had a lot of showings that pretty much destroy the idea of him getting hit by slower opponents. And where is this whole "take away his speed" thing coming from? What's to stop Flash from just stealing Loki's speed (which he can actually do, as opposed to a theory about Loki doing it) and leaving him a statue?

#44 Posted by Montaq (944 posts) - - Show Bio

@Lance Uppercut said:

@Montaq said:

@Lance Uppercut said:

@Deadcool said:

@Lance Uppercut said:

@Deadcool: He turned Bor to ice when his mystical defenses were down. That being said, Bor isn't really as fast as the Flash. More durable most likely, but not nearly as fast.

I'm well aware of Loki's abilities. I'm incredibly partial to the character, and he has a lot of mystical prowess. But I don't see it being enough when you have an enemy who can strike you before you finish a sentence.

Question: Does Flash has mystical defeanses?

Well, Slade has defeated Flash, and the Rogues are able to fight him, if mere mortals are able to fight Flash, why can't a God?

You know he doesn't. But I doubt he needs any.

Slade beating Flash is poor writing. I could only imagine you're talking about the occurrence back in the nineties which had Slade utilizing distraction. Flash has destroyed Slade before. You're kind of going in a really weird logical direction. The Rogues have nothing to do with Loki. Some of them are actually incredibly difficult to beat.

I think what Deadcool is saying, or at least what I'm thinking, is that the Flash has been hit by non-speedsters before. You are saying that Loki can't hit him and he would just run up on him in a millisecond, but the Flash has had fights and been threatened by people much slower than him, and Loki, before. If Mirror Master can keep Flash busy for a few seconds than so can Loki and that's all the time he would need to cast a spell to take away his speed.

I get what he's saying, but he's had a lot of showings that pretty much destroy the idea of him getting hit by slower opponents. And where is this whole "take away his speed" thing coming from? What's to stop Flash from just stealing Loki's speed (which he can actually do, as opposed to a theory about Loki doing it) and leaving him a statue?

Because he almost never does that. People always bring that up like as if its Flash's go-to power, but he wouldn't do that. He would just try to punch Loki, however, it is totally in character for Loki to cut someone off from their power source, especially if he knows that its his best bet, which he would find out with his preptime.

#45 Posted by Lance Uppercut (23226 posts) - - Show Bio

@Montaq said:

@Lance Uppercut said:

@Montaq said:

@Lance Uppercut said:

@Deadcool said:

@Lance Uppercut said:

@Deadcool: He turned Bor to ice when his mystical defenses were down. That being said, Bor isn't really as fast as the Flash. More durable most likely, but not nearly as fast.

I'm well aware of Loki's abilities. I'm incredibly partial to the character, and he has a lot of mystical prowess. But I don't see it being enough when you have an enemy who can strike you before you finish a sentence.

Question: Does Flash has mystical defeanses?

Well, Slade has defeated Flash, and the Rogues are able to fight him, if mere mortals are able to fight Flash, why can't a God?

You know he doesn't. But I doubt he needs any.

Slade beating Flash is poor writing. I could only imagine you're talking about the occurrence back in the nineties which had Slade utilizing distraction. Flash has destroyed Slade before. You're kind of going in a really weird logical direction. The Rogues have nothing to do with Loki. Some of them are actually incredibly difficult to beat.

I think what Deadcool is saying, or at least what I'm thinking, is that the Flash has been hit by non-speedsters before. You are saying that Loki can't hit him and he would just run up on him in a millisecond, but the Flash has had fights and been threatened by people much slower than him, and Loki, before. If Mirror Master can keep Flash busy for a few seconds than so can Loki and that's all the time he would need to cast a spell to take away his speed.

I get what he's saying, but he's had a lot of showings that pretty much destroy the idea of him getting hit by slower opponents. And where is this whole "take away his speed" thing coming from? What's to stop Flash from just stealing Loki's speed (which he can actually do, as opposed to a theory about Loki doing it) and leaving him a statue?

Because he almost never does that. People always bring that up like as if its Flash's go-to power, but he wouldn't do that. He would just try to punch Loki, however, it is totally in character for Loki to cut someone off from their power source, especially if he knows that its his best bet, which he would find out with his preptime.

Where as people are bringing up transmutation and something about cutting off the speed force as though they're go to abilities/strategies? He steals peoples speed more often than Loki trying to cut anyone off from their power source. Ever. It's not like the Flash is Namor and you can just douse him in fire to weaken his abilities. Everyone's putting their eggs in a basket that no one can even prove he can or will.

#46 Posted by dawsey28 (217 posts) - - Show Bio

Not really sure if these count as "cutting [someone] from their power source," but I will post them for relevance.

Power Syphon/Sapping/Draining/Transfer:

Granted none of these are the Speed Force, but...

Transmutation:

#47 Posted by cyberninja (10527 posts) - - Show Bio

Flash

#48 Posted by Deadcool (6919 posts) - - Show Bio

@Lance Uppercut said:

Where as people are bringing up transmutation and something about cutting off the speed force as though they're go to abilities/strategies? He steals peoples speed more often than Loki trying to cut anyone off from their power source. Ever. It's not like the Flash is Namor and you can just douse him in fire to weaken his abilities. Everyone's putting their eggs in a basket that no one can even prove he can or will.

We don't have to prove that he can, the OP already said that he is allowed and would have that power, and yeah, Loki would do it, he always defeat someone as fast as he has the chance to defeat someone he does, he doesn't toy with anyone, and more important he never fights directly against someone, but he OP actially needs to mention if the Morals are on or off, because I w as thinking in the answer of this thread as Morals-on...

#49 Posted by Lance Uppercut (23226 posts) - - Show Bio

@Deadcool said:

@Lance Uppercut said:

Where as people are bringing up transmutation and something about cutting off the speed force as though they're go to abilities/strategies? He steals peoples speed more often than Loki trying to cut anyone off from their power source. Ever. It's not like the Flash is Namor and you can just douse him in fire to weaken his abilities. Everyone's putting their eggs in a basket that no one can even prove he can or will.

We don't have to prove that he can, the OP already said that he is allowed and would have that power, and yeah, Loki would do it, he always defeat someone as fast as he has the chance to defeat someone he does, he doesn't toy with anyone, and more important he never fights directly against someone, but he OP actially needs to mention if the Morals are on or off, because I w as thinking in the answer of this thread as Morals-on...

It most certainly does not.

#50 Posted by Billy Batson (59391 posts) - - Show Bio

the Flash
BB