Living Tribunal vs. White Phoenix of the Crown.

" @Red_Blade said:

" @lord_oraculous016 said:

" @Dolph_Zigglar said:

"Who said he had to destroy her to win? He could easily contain it, the Celestials were able to contain the more powerful Goblin Force.  There isn't any reason why the Tribunal couldn't just separate Jean from the PF and then tell the bird to screw off. "

The Goblin Force is no where near the power of the Phoenix Force.. Those who claimed the the 1.Goblin Force "devoured" the Phoenix Force is true, but there is more into the story, which i explained in the previous parts of this thread.. 2. plus the Celestials are no where the Phoenix, as Jean Grey calling back the insignificant remnants of the power of the Phoenix destroyed the hand of the Celestial Arishem the Judge.. plus the Goblin force's power is finite for it needs to feed to the energy of other cosmic beings, no cosmic energy, no food, no power.. the Phoenix's is limitless..3. the Tribunal cannot seperate the Force from Jean because they are one of the same being.. 4.plus the Tribunal could not order the Force as if it is his pet.. from the scans from the previous parts of this thread, it is shown that he holds great great respect for the Force and the two commune in a language without words.. 5. plus the Tribunal knows how powerful the Phoenix is, as he, as well as the Phoenix itself knows that for the sake of the Multiverse, the Phoenix must not return to a human host for no human can safely contain such power.. "

1. Because it's more powerful then the Phoenix Force is, there is nothing more to that part of the story other then the PF getting eaten alive.  2. You are right the Celestials are no where near the Phoenix force, but that doesn't mean they can't contain it, they have the technology to do so.   3. Where is this once ever stated, I recall Jean always being the host of the Phoenix Force that had it within her, she can be seperated from it. 4. Why wouldn't he be able to? He ranks up far higher then she does, and holding respect for someone means nothing. Galactus respects Reed Richards, doesn't make them equals or close to each other in power.   5. The same thing can be said about Eternity, Death, Oblivion, Infinity and the other cosmic entities that are vital, being important does not make you powerful.  The Phoenix Force is powerful, but she is way below the LT in rank and in power, she does not have the power or the showings to even give the LT a fight.  "

1. it is not.. the simple fact is that the Goblin force needs energy to consume which by chance compose the 'Firebird" form the Phoenix Force manifest into.. when the Goblin Force "devoured" the manifestation of the Phoenix Force, it absorbed the cosmic energy that gives it shape.. the Phoenix Force like i stated is not an abstract like Eternity and Death nor a cosmic being like Galactus and the Celestials, it is a Force.. when the Goblin Force "devoured" the Phoenix Force, the true form of the being is still unaffected.. for if by any reason may the force be "destoryed", grave consequences should arise.. such as the "complete extinction of life in the cosmos", like when Galactus tried to seperate the Phoenix from Rachel.. even cosmic beings such as Galactus is doomed fro destruction, but as the Celestials themselves managed to imprison the Goblin Force, the continued burning of the stars and existence of life, such claims is very much false..  2. Thank you for agreeing with me, though in a very miniscule possiblity correct, one cannot completely seal of life and creation itself.. for the Phoenix is TOAA's tool to ensure life and creation.. denying her purpose, is denying the will of TOAA himself.. plus i would just like to add a quote from the character of Dr. Ian Malcolm from Jurassic Park.. he said:  " If there is one thing the history of evolution has taught us it's that life will not be contained. Life breaks free, expands to new territory, and crashes through barriers, painfully, maybe even dangerously."  which i quite true, no one can ever contain much more destroy life itself.. for life has no origins.. it sprung from the cold nothingness of oblivion, from which also came the idea of death.. so in others words, such folly will only deemed to be a complete failure..  3. she can probably if she wills it.. but not permanently, for she is the living embodiment of the force as stated by Death itself.. she did not chose too for it is a matter of fate.. the force is her by right, and they are one of the same being.. i don't the Tribunal can take the Force out of her, for it is outside his sphere of influence.. the Force once conceded with the Tribunal's request for both of them know that no human can safely contain the force.. but Jean Grey is an a simple avatar or a host for the force.. for as fate dictated, it is her by right and they are one of the same being..  4. he does rank above her in authority over the entire Marvel Continuity, but it does not mean, she possess less power.. as for Galactus and Reed, Galactus respects Reed for his achievements, not for who he is.. do you think if Reed tells Galactus not to devour a living planet, the other will concede.. respect yes, but equal i guess not.. as for the Tribunal and the Phoenix, it is a very much different scenario.. the two seem to possess a deep connection with the other.. both of these beings had seen countless universes destroyed and created with their very eyes.. but the fact still points as the Tribunal being higher in the h ierarchy and the Phoenix is probably in a league of her own, but still subjects to the Tribunal's judgement if she deems it as "for the sake of all creation".. but that compromise will end when the Phoenix sees its time for a new creation.. this time, the Tribunal must concede with the Phoenix's authority over the matter..  5. yes, but those abstracts you mentioned are under the grace of the phoenix itself.. the abstracts mention comprises the very foundations of creation.. but Phoenix is creation itself.. these beings have died and re-created countless times under the good grace of the Phoenix, which is the ressurection force of the cosmos.. you are correct though that being being important does not necessarily make you powerful, but the fact that these mention abstracts are doomed to be destroyed on the upcoming destruction of the universe due to the judgement of the Phoenix, save the Tribunal, it shows that these cosmic beings are far beyond the Phoenix..  she maybe lower than the Tribunal in rank, but she certainly is not weaker, for she who wield all the power of creation is not to be underestimated, even by the likes of the Living Tribunal himself.. her showns feats may not be enough to defeat the Tribunal, but the Tribunal himself does not possess the power destroy the Phoenix.. that is why i claimed this battle, a STALEMATE.. "

Marvel has already clearly written that LT is 2nd only to TOAA
 
Beyonder and Molecule Man were retconned, Protege was absorbed into LT, and Scathan just disappeared so LT is ranked #2. 
 
No incarnation of Phoenix comes remotely close.

" Marvel has already clearly written that LT is 2nd only to TOAA   Beyonder and Molecule Man were retconned, Protege was absorbed into LT, and Scathan just disappeared so LT is ranked #2.   No incarnation of Phoenix comes remotely close. "

Living Tribunal

" @Prince CortSether said:

" Marvel has already clearly written that LT is 2nd only to TOAA   Beyonder and Molecule Man were retconned, Protege was absorbed into LT, and Scathan just disappeared so LT is ranked #2.   No incarnation of Phoenix comes remotely close. "

Wrong read the scans and the post of @lord_oraculous016 what Phoenix Force represents.  This now established in Marvel.  "

" @Prince CortSether said:

" Marvel has already clearly written that LT is 2nd only to TOAA   Beyonder and Molecule Man were retconned, Protege was absorbed into LT, and Scathan just disappeared so LT is ranked #2.   No incarnation of Phoenix comes remotely close. "

Wrong read the scans and the post of @lord_oraculous016 what Phoenix Force represents.  This now established in Marvel.  "

@lord_oraculous016: I agree with you 100% .... The Phoenix Force is life and creation itself, if it was to be destroyed so would life as we know it.

living tribunal wins easily, im tired of hearing about this worthless white phoenix character that has no feats and is insanely overpowered

Living Tribunal Stomps 

LT

Is WPOTC holding a universe. Also she wins.

living tribunal over rated but i believe he could beat white phoenix

unless she can use magiccc

p.s white phoenix force is hooot

i'd motor boat that

@HAVICKGREEN said:

living tribunal over rated but i believe he could beat white phoenix

This

@menaceforever said:

Is WPOTC holding a universe. Also she wins.

Are you saying WPOTC wins against LT because she was holding a universe? o_O

You do realize (albiet in a crossover) LT has held entire DC multiverse on his hand?

and yes that was explained as universe in Here Comes Tomorrow but i still dont see how she could hold the universe in her own hand.

@Killemall: no im just half- bias

@Killemall said:

@menaceforever said:

Is WPOTC holding a universe. Also she wins.

Are you saying WPOTC wins against LT because she was holding a universe? o_O

You do realize (albiet in a crossover) LT has held entire DC multiverse on his hand?

and yes that was explained as universe in Here Comes Tomorrow but i still dont see how she could hold the universe in her own hand.

What? Don't tell me you're referring to the amalgam brothers.

phoenix isnt even close to pre-retcon molecule man let alone LT

LT stomps

@chriskalaani: actually pre retcon molecule man>LT

@justleader: well i dont know about that. hes definitely on levels of LT but i dont know if he could beat him. i do know that he would easily erase white phoenix from the tip of his finger. i dont know about you but i find WPOC overrated as hell

@lord_oraculous016: you are insanely stupid and a huge phoenix fanboy. who cares if she held a universe? eternity and frank richards did that. doesnt mean she has any other feats even worth considering. phoenix is a very overrated character that would get stomped by a lot more people than you think

@chriskalaani: LT couldnt stand to the beyonder only MM can.

yeah i find WCP overrated very much

LT a mega-curb stomp

@justleader: i think we can at least agree their all extremely powerful and far beyond wpoc

did you know some phoenix fanboy actually said she could stalemate LT? fucking priceless. her best feat was repairing 1 universe. she isnt even a multiversal threat, let alone an omniversal threat

Just because WPOTC held a universe doesn't mean much.  LT ("the most supreme power", below) is said to be able to delete universes whenever necessary.  I'm not totally convinced by LordOraculous, but I think they're very interesting ideas and fun reading.  I always appreciate when people put time and thought into their posts whether I agree with them or not.  Very educational.
 

@chriskalaani said:

@lord_oraculous016: you are insanely stupid and a huge phoenix fanboy. who cares if she held a universe? eternity and frank richards did that. doesnt mean she has any other feats even worth considering. phoenix is a very overrated character that would get stomped by a lot more people than you think

yes, there have been many characters who have been shown holding a universe.. from the likes of Eternity, Franklin Richards, the Watcher and Legion.. the major difference is how the WPOTC peformed the feat.. she took out the 616 universe from the multiverse and cut away its future thus preventing the whole HCT future from happening and while simultaneously controlling the entire 616 universe at a sub-atomic scale, she created a new time-line by telepathically pushing Scott to continue on with his life.. probably less than amazing to some people such as yourself, but amazing nevertheless.. and saying that the PF has no other feats implies that you probably know almost nothing about the character.. the PF is not overrated at all.. its just a complicated character that needs a deep understanding of its character to truly appreciate its power and significance..

and fyi, i am not a fanboy.. i have been in this site for more than 3 years and many may not share the same thoughts as i do, but nevertheless, i am not such.. fanboys are those fighting blindly at a lost cause, i am simply stating the facts that few individuals fail to comprehend.. if you do not share my thoughts, its all fine and dandy but please let us not refer to each other with harsh words and labeling.. this is a friendly forum.. let us debate civilly..

@Owie said:

Just because WPOTC held a universe doesn't mean much. LT ("the most supreme power", below) is said to be able to delete universes whenever necessary. I'm not totally convinced by LordOraculous, but I think they're very interesting ideas and fun reading. I always appreciate when people put time and thought into their posts whether I agree with them or not. Very educational.

wow.. thank you.. ^_^

here is another scan you all..

please interpret the scan on your own.. thanks ^_^

Doth mine eye deceive me? There are fleshlings who believe that Phoenix is comparable in power to the Living Tribunal? - - Preposterous I say!

@lord_oraculous016: look you dont understand what im saying. your assuming too much from a character that has shown very little. there are many characters that have down what she has on a much higher scale and actually have the feats to prove it.

I hate to agree with a certain person on this page ^ but LT takes this.

@chriskalaani said:

@lord_oraculous016: look you dont understand what im saying. your assuming too much from a character that has shown very little. there are many characters that have down what she has on a much higher scale and actually have the feats to prove it.

and base on what on my good sir? based on your claims alone? LT himself has acknowledge that the the power of the PF is a threat to the multiverse.. also, in the previous universe where Galen of Taa existed before he was created Galactus, it was the PF who saved all life fro eternal damnation and promised everyone that they will soon be reborn in a new universe (which is the current 616 reality).. you haven't proven me wrong.. all you have done is share your thought to the matter.. sorry but battle forums don't work that way..

@lord_oraculous016: are you denying there are characters beyond pheonix? pre-retcon MM and beyonder and thanos have proven their feats to be much higher than what phoenix has done. titles and assumptions arent everything, and that is mostly what phoenix is. all im saying is based on feats we havent seen much. this could change, but for now i dont see her anywhere near the Living Tribunal. you can think what you want

@chriskalaani said:

@lord_oraculous016: are you denying there are characters beyond pheonix? pre-retcon MM and beyonder and thanos have proven their feats to be much higher than what phoenix has done. titles and assumptions arent everything, and that is mostly what phoenix is. all im saying is based on feats we havent seen much. this could change, but for now i dont see her anywhere near the Living Tribunal. you can think what you want

no.. i am not saying that.. by laws of semantics, yes Pre-Retcon Beyonder and MM are well above her.. as for Thanos with HOTU, yes without doubt.. though i'm a bit sceptic with the IG for the fact that there exist many IG's in alternate realities as well.. i am not claiming most of what i believe in just mere titles and all.. Phoenix has feats on her own.. she created an energy matrix which was threatened to be abused by Necrom to compress all alternate realities to singularity.. if is true that most of its power is not yet revealed and virtually unknown.. but this not just goes with the Phoenix.. what was Eternity's greatest feat? why was he defeated by a mere fear lord like Nightmare? what has Oblivion done? many abstracts are virtually featless and yet they are respected because of their status and the concept they represent.. yes, i have my opinions and so does you.. so let's just respect each others opinions until the other is proven otherwise.. no need for bashing or calling names which is really unnecessary civilize debates in battle forums..

@lord_oraculous016: well i believe thats fair enough. i have to admit your probably one of the more reasonable phoenix fans. most of ive seen just make her into something shes not which is really annoying and is mostly the reason i dont like the character, but i will respect your thoughts

@Owie said:

Just because WPOTC held a universe doesn't mean much. LT ("the most supreme power", below) is said to be able to delete universes whenever necessary. I'm not totally convinced by LordOraculous, but I think they're very interesting ideas and fun reading. I always appreciate when people put time and thought into their posts whether I agree with them or not. Very educational.

wow.. thank you.. ^_^

here is another scan you all..

please interpret the scan on your own.. thanks ^_^

@chriskalaani said:

@lord_oraculous016: well i believe thats fair enough. i have to admit your probably one of the more reasonable phoenix fans. most of ive seen just make her into something shes not which is really annoying and is mostly the reason i dont like the character, but i will respect your thoughts

thank you.. ^_^

@Owie said:

No problem! Can you tell me what your scan above, and the one on page 2 with Jean in the middle and the Stranger next to her, are from?

it was from X-Men Forever.. it was when the Stranger sought to obtain the power of the PF to jump start evolution and usurp the position of the great powers of the the fabric of reality.. that is why you see Eternity, Infinity, Death, Oblivion and even the Living Tribunal kneeling in front of the Stranger.. the thing is, most consider this as non-canon.. but one interesting thought is that the Living Tribunal is there.. and wherever the Living Tribunal is, as a singleton across the omniverse, his apperance in a issue is canon on his part.. well, it all goes down on how one precieves the story i guess..

@lord_oraculous016: really, just stop. your making yourself look very fanboyish. her power comes no where near the likes of LT. she is only the spark of life in the multiverse, not the omniverse, so her power doesnt even apply here. LT hand waves her from existence

LT wins this. There is a reason he is second to TOAA.

@jimroote99: Would you stop looking for WPOTC threads please. Its a very childish thing to do.

@menaceforever: im pretty sure i can do whatever i want on this site. now go away

@jimroote99: Oh you little piece of garbage. Read the Rules, read my series, be a better person, or STFU.

Fools - - fools, all of you!

@menaceforever: im pretty sure the rules dont say anything about not being able to comment on a thread. i think thats the whole point of the site anyway. and why are you ranting like that? annoyance...