Living Tribunal vs Molecule Man

LT, he is beyond molecules

LOL the Living Tribunal is not made out of molecules. He's more of a presence. Like a Specter. It's like saying a ghost is made out of matter. Molecule Man looses by default in every single way.

The ability to control Molecules is nothing in a multiverse ruled by Quantum Physics, as In Smaller than an atom, which is smaller than a Molecule.   So Molecule man's powers are very rough and unprecise.  A Really Powerful Matter warper can affect Neutrino's, Gluons, Photons, and Gravitons not just something as relatively gargantuan as molecules.

"I think I see what the Original Poster was trying to do here though. Remember when the Classic Beyonder was above all the beings within the entire Multiverse ? ( during Secret Wars I believe )... well Molecule Man was able to go head to head with the Classic Beyonder... so the Classic Molecule Man may actually be closer to Living Tribunal than we give him credit for...
"

"King Saturn said:

"I think I see what the Original Poster was trying to do here though. Remember when the Classic Beyonder was above all the beings within the entire Multiverse ? ( during Secret Wars I believe )... well Molecule Man was able to go head to head with the Classic Beyonder... so the Classic Molecule Man may actually be closer to Living Tribunal than we give him credit for...
"

Still his powers are relatively clumsy for a matter warper, most matter warpers can now manipulate matter at the Atomic or Sub atomic or Super Sub atomic * my word for crap like quarks* or Even Quantum Level *my word for crap like photons, gluons, neutrinos, gravitons and other really tiny crap* ,  So Molecule man's powers are outdated and are rather weak."

"King Saturn said:

"I think I see what the Original Poster was trying to do here though. Remember when the Classic Beyonder was above all the beings within the entire Multiverse ? ( during Secret Wars I believe )... well Molecule Man was able to go head to head with the Classic Beyonder... so the Classic Molecule Man may actually be closer to Living Tribunal than we give him credit for...
"

Still his powers are relatively clumsy for a matter warper, most matter warpers can now manipulate matter at the Atomic or Sub atomic or Super Sub atomic * my word for crap like quarks* or Even Quantum Level *my word for crap like photons, gluons, neutrinos, gravitons and other really tiny crap* ,  So Molecule man's powers are outdated and are rather weak."

"Dreadnaught said:

"King Saturn said:

"I think I see what the Original Poster was trying to do here though. Remember when the Classic Beyonder was above all the beings within the entire Multiverse ? ( during Secret Wars I believe )... well Molecule Man was able to go head to head with the Classic Beyonder... so the Classic Molecule Man may actually be closer to Living Tribunal than we give him credit for...
"

Still his powers are relatively clumsy for a matter warper, most matter warpers can now manipulate matter at the Atomic or Sub atomic or Super Sub atomic * my word for crap like quarks* or Even Quantum Level *my word for crap like photons, gluons, neutrinos, gravitons and other really tiny crap* ,  So Molecule man's powers are outdated and are rather weak."

They werent that weak when he went up against Pre Retcon Beyonder..."

"Dreadnaught said:

"King Saturn said:

"I think I see what the Original Poster was trying to do here though. Remember when the Classic Beyonder was above all the beings within the entire Multiverse ? ( during Secret Wars I believe )... well Molecule Man was able to go head to head with the Classic Beyonder... so the Classic Molecule Man may actually be closer to Living Tribunal than we give him credit for...
"

Still his powers are relatively clumsy for a matter warper, most matter warpers can now manipulate matter at the Atomic or Sub atomic or Super Sub atomic * my word for crap like quarks* or Even Quantum Level *my word for crap like photons, gluons, neutrinos, gravitons and other really tiny crap* ,  So Molecule man's powers are outdated and are rather weak."

They werent that weak when he went up against Pre Retcon Beyonder..."

"King Saturn said:

"Dreadnaught said:

"King Saturn said:

"I think I see what the Original Poster was trying to do here though. Remember when the Classic Beyonder was above all the beings within the entire Multiverse ? ( during Secret Wars I believe )... well Molecule Man was able to go head to head with the Classic Beyonder... so the Classic Molecule Man may actually be closer to Living Tribunal than we give him credit for...
"

Still his powers are relatively clumsy for a matter warper, most matter warpers can now manipulate matter at the Atomic or Sub atomic or Super Sub atomic * my word for crap like quarks* or Even Quantum Level *my word for crap like photons, gluons, neutrinos, gravitons and other really tiny crap* ,  So Molecule man's powers are outdated and are rather weak."

They werent that weak when he went up against Pre Retcon Beyonder..."

That's because that comic was printed before the day when Quantum physics truly came onto their own, back when no one knew what Neutrons were made out of. "

"But what if the fight is Classic Molecule Man vs Classic Living Tribunal ? How would you then be able to say the LT wins so easy ?
"

"Dreadnaught said:

"King Saturn said:

"Dreadnaught said:

"King Saturn said:

"I think I see what the Original Poster was trying to do here though. Remember when the Classic Beyonder was above all the beings within the entire Multiverse ? ( during Secret Wars I believe )... well Molecule Man was able to go head to head with the Classic Beyonder... so the Classic Molecule Man may actually be closer to Living Tribunal than we give him credit for...
"

Still his powers are relatively clumsy for a matter warper, most matter warpers can now manipulate matter at the Atomic or Sub atomic or Super Sub atomic * my word for crap like quarks* or Even Quantum Level *my word for crap like photons, gluons, neutrinos, gravitons and other really tiny crap* ,  So Molecule man's powers are outdated and are rather weak."

They werent that weak when he went up against Pre Retcon Beyonder..."

That's because that comic was printed before the day when Quantum physics truly came onto their own, back when no one knew what Neutrons were made out of. "

Nor Gravitons."

"King Saturn said:

"But what if the fight is Classic Molecule Man vs Classic Living Tribunal ? How would you then be able to say the LT wins so easy ?
"

Well for one. The Living Tribunal is PRESENCE. He is not made out of matter in any shape or form. How is Classic Molecule Man going to warp the Living Tribunal where there are no mass presents? It would be like shooting a missile at a ghost or like Magneto trying to manipulate air.

"

"Perfect Cell said:

"Dreadnaught said:

"King Saturn said:

"Dreadnaught said:

"King Saturn said:

"I think I see what the Original Poster was trying to do here though. Remember when the Classic Beyonder was above all the beings within the entire Multiverse ? ( during Secret Wars I believe )... well Molecule Man was able to go head to head with the Classic Beyonder... so the Classic Molecule Man may actually be closer to Living Tribunal than we give him credit for...
"

Still his powers are relatively clumsy for a matter warper, most matter warpers can now manipulate matter at the Atomic or Sub atomic or Super Sub atomic * my word for crap like quarks* or Even Quantum Level *my word for crap like photons, gluons, neutrinos, gravitons and other really tiny crap* ,  So Molecule man's powers are outdated and are rather weak."

They werent that weak when he went up against Pre Retcon Beyonder..."

That's because that comic was printed before the day when Quantum physics truly came onto their own, back when no one knew what Neutrons were made out of. "

Nor Gravitons."

No one even knew Gravitons even existed back then.  :P, I forget what's the particle for magnetism?  If I'm right they are photons?  And Gluons are the Strong atomic force, and The weak atomic force is neutrinos?  Or is this list wrong?"

OWEN REECE WINS HERE

Tier 1: (Omniversal, Omnipotent, Omniscient, Omnitemporal Entities)

• The One Above All
• Anyone with the Heart of the Universe (Location/Item)
• Beyonder(Pre-Retcon)

Tier 1.5: (Pre-Retcon Only – Neigh Omnipotent Being)

• Molecule Man (Owen Reece)

Tier 2: (Omniversal, Neigh – Omnipotent, Neigh – Omniscient, Omnitemporal Entity)

• The Living Tribunal

Tier 2.5: (Neigh – Omnipotent, Neigh – Omniscient, Neigh – Omnitemporal Entity)

• Anyone with The Infinity Gauntlet (When it could be used in Unison)

Tier 3: (Omniversal/Omnitemporal Entities)

• Eternity/Infinity (Same Being – Two Sides of the Same Coin)

"Perfect Cell said:

"King Saturn said:

"But what if the fight is Classic Molecule Man vs Classic Living Tribunal ? How would you then be able to say the LT wins so easy ?
"

Well for one. The Living Tribunal is PRESENCE. He is not made out of matter in any shape or form. How is Classic Molecule Man going to warp the Living Tribunal where there are no mass presents? It would be like shooting a missile at a ghost or like Magneto trying to manipulate air.

"

Owen Reece's power is not limited to Molecules.  He named himself that because that is what he thought he was limited to.

Dreadnaught said:

"Perfect Cell said:

"Dreadnaught said:

"King Saturn said:

"Dreadnaught said:

"King Saturn said:

"I think I see what the Original Poster was trying to do here though. Remember when the Classic Beyonder was above all the beings within the entire Multiverse ? ( during Secret Wars I believe )... well Molecule Man was able to go head to head with the Classic Beyonder... so the Classic Molecule Man may actually be closer to Living Tribunal than we give him credit for...
"

Still his powers are relatively clumsy for a matter warper, most matter warpers can now manipulate matter at the Atomic or Sub atomic or Super Sub atomic * my word for crap like quarks* or Even Quantum Level *my word for crap like photons, gluons, neutrinos, gravitons and other really tiny crap* ,  So Molecule man's powers are outdated and are rather weak."

They werent that weak when he went up against Pre Retcon Beyonder..."

That's because that comic was printed before the day when Quantum physics truly came onto their own, back when no one knew what Neutrons were made out of. "

Nor Gravitons."

No one even knew Gravitons even existed back then.  :P, I forget what's the particle for magnetism?  If I'm right they are photons?  And Gluons are the Strong atomic force, and The weak atomic force is neutrinos?  Or is this list wrong?"

There is no particle for magnetism.  Magnetic forces are not a particle-wave, just a wave form.

OWEN REECE WINS HERE

There is a reason in secret wars II, that the Living Tribunal did not interfere with the Beyonder conflict (HE WAS NOT STRONG ENOUGH AND HE KNEW IT!).

Molecule Man is not limited to manipulating Molecules.  He can manipulate every form of matter, energy (including thought), time and space.

Tier 1: (Omniversal, Omnipotent, Omniscient, Omnitemporal Entities)

• The One Above All
• Anyone with the Heart of the Universe (Location/Item)
• Beyonder(Pre-Retcon)

Tier 1.5: (Pre-Retcon Only – Neigh Omnipotent Being)

• Molecule Man (Owen Reece)

Tier 2: (Omniversal, Neigh – Omnipotent, Neigh – Omniscient, Omnitemporal Entity)

• The Living Tribunal

Tier 2.5: (Neigh – Omnipotent, Neigh – Omniscient, Neigh – Omnitemporal Entity)

• Anyone with The Infinity Gauntlet (When it could be used in Unison)

Tier 3: (Omniversal/Omnitemporal Entities)

• Eternity/Infinity (Same Being – Two Sides of the Same Coin)

"

Lt wins here, he is only second to One-Above-All, the Living Tribunal is a prescence of power, he could easily beat Molecule Man as stated on LT's bio that when Thanos gained the Infinity Gauntlet, LT could have stopped him but didn't and Molecule Man probably can't beat Thanos with IG. It would still be an interesting fight.

Molecule Man did fight the beyonder so he could be just as powerful as LT but LT wins cause hes mentally unstable.

"Lt wins here, he is only second to One-Above-All, the Living Tribunal is a prescence of power, he could easily beat Molecule Man as stated on LT's bio that when Thanos gained the Infinity Gauntlet, LT could have stopped him but didn't and Molecule Man probably can't beat Thanos with IG. It would still be an interesting fight."

"Theracles said:

"Lt wins here, he is only second to One-Above-All, the Living Tribunal is a prescence of power, he could easily beat Molecule Man as stated on LT's bio that when Thanos gained the Infinity Gauntlet, LT could have stopped him but didn't and Molecule Man probably can't beat Thanos with IG. It would still be an interesting fight."

MM could beat Thanos with the Infinity Gauntlet.  He is above LT!!!!!!!!!!"

OWEN REECE WINS HERE

There is a reason in secret wars II, that the Living Tribunal did not interfere with the Beyonder conflict (HE WAS NOT STRONG ENOUGH AND HE KNEW IT!).

"Tevnoba said:

OWEN REECE WINS HERE

There is a reason in secret wars II, that the Living Tribunal did not interfere with the Beyonder conflict (HE WAS NOT STRONG ENOUGH AND HE KNEW IT!).

The Living Tribunal not interfering doesn't mean he is weaker than Molecue Man.

He did not interfere when Thanos had the IG, but he could have easily stopped him. The Living Tribunal only acts if a cosmic crime is being committed."

Living Tribunal probably knows what's going to happen. He's just around. And the main thing is He doesn't care about anything. Because he's not a humanoid or an anything. In the secret wars II panel. Living tribunal is just there. And it all worked out. stuff ended well. He didn't even have to interfere.

Winner: Living Tribunal

"Living Tribunal probably knows what's going to happen. He's just around. And the main thing is He doesn't care about anything. Because he's not a humanoid or an anything. In the secret wars II panel. Living tribunal is just there. And it all worked out. stuff ended well. He didn't even have to interfere.

Winner: Living Tribunal"

Generally you cannot go agaisnt the Living Tribunal....LT is omnipotent ...unless you have the heart of the universe or such.

"

Generally you cannot go agaisnt the Living Tribunal....LT is omnipotent ...unless you have the heart of the universe or such.

"

Yes and I also realize that generally LT is considered the most powerful being in the MU.....The Living Tribunal possesses infinite power and near-absolute control over the Marvel multiverse, second only to the

"Yes and I also realize that generally LT is considered the most powerful being in the MU.....The Living Tribunal possesses infinite power and near-absolute control over the Marvel multiverse, second only to the One-Above-All in station, authority and power"

"

Generally you cannot go agaisnt the Living Tribunal....LT is omnipotent ...unless you have the heart of the universe or such.

"

"Yes and I also realize that generally LT is considered the most powerful being in the MU.....The Living Tribunal possesses infinite power and near-absolute control over the Marvel multiverse, second only to the One-Above-All in station, authority and power"

No one messes with the LT he's the second most powerful being in the Marvel U. He wins easy.

"No one messes with the LT he's the second most powerful being in the Marvel U. He wins easy."

The Living Tribunal is only second to The One Above All. The only person that surpassed him was Thanos when he had the Heart of the Universe.

Know one beats him without that.

LT wins..

Ok. I should have freshened up before posting. I was only debating if Living Tribunal was in any actual trouble during Secret Wars II. I would say no. But It was pretty much a fact that Beyonder and Molecule Man. Were the 2 most powerful beings in existence. this has since been fixed. I love the beyonder, and Molecule Man.  Characters that are too powerful for any ones good.  Nowadays Molecule man gets defeated by his emotions and insecurities.  Why do we do these battles of the unbeatables, Living tribunal, Beyonder, Molecule Man, TOA.  Can't they all be winners?

Winner: Stan Lee

Some are not seeing clear.

"I dont even care anymore... no one is budging on there stances... or even for that fact showing that LT could actually beat Classic MM or even Vice Versa... so whats the point of even keeping up the discussion here ? "

Living Tribunal Wins. He is the LAW of the universe.

The reason why Living tribunal didn't do anything in the Secret War, is because it had nothing to do with the multiverse. Eternity wasn't even effected by it because during the Secret Wars, Beyonder summoned all of the contendents to his made up little world. It was more of poketed dimension than anything else. Living Tribunal wins.

"Lunacyde said:

"Yes and I also realize that generally LT is considered the most powerful being in the MU.....The Living Tribunal possesses infinite power and near-absolute control over the Marvel multiverse, second only to the One-Above-All in station, authority and power"

Not just Multiverse, but the Actuality of Marvel.

Lunacyde said:

"

Generally you cannot go agaisnt the Living Tribunal....LT is omnipotent ...unless you have the heart of the universe or such.

"

Omnipotence is relative.  MM and Classic Beyonder were above him.
"

Living Tribunal

"Tevnoba said:

"Lunacyde said:

"Yes and I also realize that generally LT is considered the most powerful being in the MU.....The Living Tribunal possesses infinite power and near-absolute control over the Marvel multiverse, second only to the One-Above-All in station, authority and power"

Not just Multiverse, but the Actuality of Marvel.

Lunacyde said:

"

Generally you cannot go agaisnt the Living Tribunal....LT is omnipotent ...unless you have the heart of the universe or such.

"

Omnipotence is relative.  MM and Classic Beyonder were above him.
"

Well put Tev, and all correct! People need to stop looking at it from today's perspective and realize that at that period of time, Beyonder & MM>everyone from LT downwards! I've posted this pic before, and i'll do so again, for all those who think LT had any sought of chance, here he is with the rest of the Marvel pantheon pleading to reason with the Beyonder:

"

"lordraiden said:

"Tevnoba said:

"Lunacyde said:

"Yes and I also realize that generally LT is considered the most powerful being in the MU.....The Living Tribunal possesses infinite power and near-absolute control over the Marvel multiverse, second only to the One-Above-All in station, authority and power"

Not just Multiverse, but the Actuality of Marvel.

Lunacyde said:

"

Generally you cannot go agaisnt the Living Tribunal....LT is omnipotent ...unless you have the heart of the universe or such.

"

Omnipotence is relative.  MM and Classic Beyonder were above him.
"

Well put Tev, and all correct! People need to stop looking at it from today's perspective and realize that at that period of time, Beyonder & MM>everyone from LT downwards! I've posted this pic before, and i'll do so again, for all those who think LT had any sought of chance, here he is with the rest of the Marvel pantheon pleading to reason with the Beyonder:

"

How did come to that notion? What was shown at that period to make you think that? LT has always been a hearld of the One Above All adnonly his power was greater."

As Jesus is the right hand of God; Beyonder is the right hand of TOAA... But the Living Tribunal represents the Bible.

However... Molecule Man will stand no chance against the Law of the Universe unless he has the Heart of the Universe.

"As Jesus is the right hand of God; Beyonder is the right hand of TOAA... But the Living Tribunal represents the Bible.

However... Molecule Man will stand no chance against the Law of the Universe unless he has the Heart of the Universe."

bha, The Presence comes and spanks them for being bad and destroying the entire omniverse just for finding out who is stronger then the other.

"As Jesus is the right hand of God; Beyonder is the right hand of TOAA... But the Living Tribunal represents the Bible.

However... Molecule Man will stand no chance against the Law of the Universe unless he has the Heart of the Universe."

wth!? how is the beyonder toaa?? in illuminati xavior said that the beyonder hinted him that beyonder was just a inhuman with extra ordinary powers. the beyonder is omnipotent, but onmipotant only! he is not omniscience nor omniexistant nor omniversal.

"Alpha said:

"lordraiden said:

"Tevnoba said:

"Lunacyde said:

"Yes and I also realize that generally LT is considered the most powerful being in the MU.....The Living Tribunal possesses infinite power and near-absolute control over the Marvel multiverse, second only to the One-Above-All in station, authority and power"

Not just Multiverse, but the Actuality of Marvel.

Lunacyde said:

"

Generally you cannot go agaisnt the Living Tribunal....LT is omnipotent ...unless you have the heart of the universe or such.

"

Omnipotence is relative.  MM and Classic Beyonder were above him.
"

Well put Tev, and all correct! People need to stop looking at it from today's perspective and realize that at that period of time, Beyonder & MM>everyone from LT downwards! I've posted this pic before, and i'll do so again, for all those who think LT had any sought of chance, here he is with the rest of the Marvel pantheon pleading to reason with the Beyonder:

"

How did come to that notion? What was shown at that period to make you think that? LT has always been a hearld of the One Above All adnonly his power was greater."

Because the Beyonder is equal to TOAA (Stan Lee once said so!)  Also, I sure that everyone can agree that LT would stand no chance against TOAA, correct?  Well if Beyonder=TOAA and TOAA>>>>>>>>LT and would have no chance against him, yet MM actually stood against The Beyonder (doing the math . . .. ) MM>>>LT."