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#1 Edited by The Man of Yesteryear (5502 posts) - - Show Bio
Molecule Man
Living Tribunal
#2 Posted by warlock360 (28040 posts) - - Show Bio

LT, he is beyond molecules

#3 Posted by King Saturn (223812 posts) - - Show Bio
The Living Tribunal wins. Molecule Man had great power to manipulate matter in nearly any universe... BUT   the Living Tribunal has control over every universe in the MU... Molecule Man goes down here... but it would be an interesting fight
#4 Edited by Perfect Cell (3470 posts) - - Show Bio

LOL the Living Tribunal is not made out of molecules. He's more of a presence. Like a Specter. It's like saying a ghost is made out of matter. Molecule Man looses by default in every single way.

#5 Posted by Vrakmul (23398 posts) - - Show Bio

The ability to control Molecules is nothing in a multiverse ruled by Quantum Physics, as In Smaller than an atom, which is smaller than a Molecule.   So Molecule man's powers are very rough and unprecise.  A Really Powerful Matter warper can affect Neutrino's, Gluons, Photons, and Gravitons not just something as relatively gargantuan as molecules.

#6 Posted by King Saturn (223812 posts) - - Show Bio
I think I see what the Original Poster was trying to do here though. Remember when the Classic Beyonder was above all the beings within the entire Multiverse ? ( during Secret Wars I believe )... well Molecule Man was able to go head to head with the Classic Beyonder... so the Classic Molecule Man may actually be closer to Living Tribunal than we give him credit for...
#7 Posted by Vrakmul (23398 posts) - - Show Bio
King Saturn said:
"I think I see what the Original Poster was trying to do here though. Remember when the Classic Beyonder was above all the beings within the entire Multiverse ? ( during Secret Wars I believe )... well Molecule Man was able to go head to head with the Classic Beyonder... so the Classic Molecule Man may actually be closer to Living Tribunal than we give him credit for...
"
Still his powers are relatively clumsy for a matter warper, most matter warpers can now manipulate matter at the Atomic or Sub atomic or Super Sub atomic * my word for crap like quarks* or Even Quantum Level *my word for crap like photons, gluons, neutrinos, gravitons and other really tiny crap* ,  So Molecule man's powers are outdated and are rather weak.
#8 Posted by King Saturn (223812 posts) - - Show Bio
Dreadnaught said:
"King Saturn said:
"I think I see what the Original Poster was trying to do here though. Remember when the Classic Beyonder was above all the beings within the entire Multiverse ? ( during Secret Wars I believe )... well Molecule Man was able to go head to head with the Classic Beyonder... so the Classic Molecule Man may actually be closer to Living Tribunal than we give him credit for...
"
Still his powers are relatively clumsy for a matter warper, most matter warpers can now manipulate matter at the Atomic or Sub atomic or Super Sub atomic * my word for crap like quarks* or Even Quantum Level *my word for crap like photons, gluons, neutrinos, gravitons and other really tiny crap* ,  So Molecule man's powers are outdated and are rather weak."
They werent that weak when he went up against Pre Retcon Beyonder...
#9 Posted by Perfect Cell (3470 posts) - - Show Bio
Dreadnaught said:
"King Saturn said:
"I think I see what the Original Poster was trying to do here though. Remember when the Classic Beyonder was above all the beings within the entire Multiverse ? ( during Secret Wars I believe )... well Molecule Man was able to go head to head with the Classic Beyonder... so the Classic Molecule Man may actually be closer to Living Tribunal than we give him credit for...
"
Still his powers are relatively clumsy for a matter warper, most matter warpers can now manipulate matter at the Atomic or Sub atomic or Super Sub atomic * my word for crap like quarks* or Even Quantum Level *my word for crap like photons, gluons, neutrinos, gravitons and other really tiny crap* ,  So Molecule man's powers are outdated and are rather weak."

Nicely put. In other words; Molecule manipulation < Reality manipulation

#10 Posted by King Saturn (223812 posts) - - Show Bio
How is Classic Molecule Man so much weaker than Living Tribunal when he was considered to be second to Classic Beyonder who is more powerful than Living Tribunal ?
#11 Posted by Perfect Cell (3470 posts) - - Show Bio
King Saturn said:
"Dreadnaught said:
"King Saturn said:
"I think I see what the Original Poster was trying to do here though. Remember when the Classic Beyonder was above all the beings within the entire Multiverse ? ( during Secret Wars I believe )... well Molecule Man was able to go head to head with the Classic Beyonder... so the Classic Molecule Man may actually be closer to Living Tribunal than we give him credit for...
"
Still his powers are relatively clumsy for a matter warper, most matter warpers can now manipulate matter at the Atomic or Sub atomic or Super Sub atomic * my word for crap like quarks* or Even Quantum Level *my word for crap like photons, gluons, neutrinos, gravitons and other really tiny crap* ,  So Molecule man's powers are outdated and are rather weak."
They werent that weak when he went up against Pre Retcon Beyonder..."

I have that comic book somewhere. Molecule Man had to fight Ultron. Dr. Doom prep-timed it because he was afraid of Ultron during the time. Even Galactus was in the Secret War; and he stood no chance against Dr. Doom. In fact; the entire Secret Wars was just based to see on how Dr. Doom owns everyone. Even the Beyonder so some extent.
#12 Posted by Vrakmul (23398 posts) - - Show Bio
King Saturn said:
"Dreadnaught said:
"King Saturn said:
"I think I see what the Original Poster was trying to do here though. Remember when the Classic Beyonder was above all the beings within the entire Multiverse ? ( during Secret Wars I believe )... well Molecule Man was able to go head to head with the Classic Beyonder... so the Classic Molecule Man may actually be closer to Living Tribunal than we give him credit for...
"
Still his powers are relatively clumsy for a matter warper, most matter warpers can now manipulate matter at the Atomic or Sub atomic or Super Sub atomic * my word for crap like quarks* or Even Quantum Level *my word for crap like photons, gluons, neutrinos, gravitons and other really tiny crap* ,  So Molecule man's powers are outdated and are rather weak."
They werent that weak when he went up against Pre Retcon Beyonder..."
That's because that comic was printed before the day when Quantum physics truly came onto their own, back when no one knew what Neutrons were made out of. 
#13 Posted by Perfect Cell (3470 posts) - - Show Bio
Dreadnaught said:
"King Saturn said:
"Dreadnaught said:
"King Saturn said:
"I think I see what the Original Poster was trying to do here though. Remember when the Classic Beyonder was above all the beings within the entire Multiverse ? ( during Secret Wars I believe )... well Molecule Man was able to go head to head with the Classic Beyonder... so the Classic Molecule Man may actually be closer to Living Tribunal than we give him credit for...
"
Still his powers are relatively clumsy for a matter warper, most matter warpers can now manipulate matter at the Atomic or Sub atomic or Super Sub atomic * my word for crap like quarks* or Even Quantum Level *my word for crap like photons, gluons, neutrinos, gravitons and other really tiny crap* ,  So Molecule man's powers are outdated and are rather weak."
They werent that weak when he went up against Pre Retcon Beyonder..."
That's because that comic was printed before the day when Quantum physics truly came onto their own, back when no one knew what Neutrons were made out of. "
Nor Gravitons.
#14 Posted by King Saturn (223812 posts) - - Show Bio
But what if the fight is Classic Molecule Man vs Classic Living Tribunal ? How would you then be able to say the LT wins so easy ?
#15 Posted by Perfect Cell (3470 posts) - - Show Bio
King Saturn said:
"But what if the fight is Classic Molecule Man vs Classic Living Tribunal ? How would you then be able to say the LT wins so easy ?
"
Well for one. The Living Tribunal is PRESENCE. He is not made out of matter in any shape or form. How is Classic Molecule Man going to warp the Living Tribunal where there are no mass presents? It would be like shooting a missile at a ghost or like Magneto trying to manipulate air.

#16 Posted by Vrakmul (23398 posts) - - Show Bio
Perfect Cell said:
"Dreadnaught said:
"King Saturn said:
"Dreadnaught said:
"King Saturn said:
"I think I see what the Original Poster was trying to do here though. Remember when the Classic Beyonder was above all the beings within the entire Multiverse ? ( during Secret Wars I believe )... well Molecule Man was able to go head to head with the Classic Beyonder... so the Classic Molecule Man may actually be closer to Living Tribunal than we give him credit for...
"
Still his powers are relatively clumsy for a matter warper, most matter warpers can now manipulate matter at the Atomic or Sub atomic or Super Sub atomic * my word for crap like quarks* or Even Quantum Level *my word for crap like photons, gluons, neutrinos, gravitons and other really tiny crap* ,  So Molecule man's powers are outdated and are rather weak."
They werent that weak when he went up against Pre Retcon Beyonder..."
That's because that comic was printed before the day when Quantum physics truly came onto their own, back when no one knew what Neutrons were made out of. "
Nor Gravitons."
No one even knew Gravitons even existed back then.  :P, I forget what's the particle for magnetism?  If I'm right they are photons?  And Gluons are the Strong atomic force, and The weak atomic force is neutrinos?  Or is this list wrong?
#17 Posted by Tevnoba (3494 posts) - - Show Bio
Perfect Cell said:
"King Saturn said:
"But what if the fight is Classic Molecule Man vs Classic Living Tribunal ? How would you then be able to say the LT wins so easy ?
"
Well for one. The Living Tribunal is PRESENCE. He is not made out of matter in any shape or form. How is Classic Molecule Man going to warp the Living Tribunal where there are no mass presents? It would be like shooting a missile at a ghost or like Magneto trying to manipulate air.

"
Owen Reece's power is not limited to Molecules.  He named himself that because that is what he thought he was limited to.

Dreadnaught said:
"Perfect Cell said:
"Dreadnaught said:
"King Saturn said:
"Dreadnaught said:
"King Saturn said:
"I think I see what the Original Poster was trying to do here though. Remember when the Classic Beyonder was above all the beings within the entire Multiverse ? ( during Secret Wars I believe )... well Molecule Man was able to go head to head with the Classic Beyonder... so the Classic Molecule Man may actually be closer to Living Tribunal than we give him credit for...
"
Still his powers are relatively clumsy for a matter warper, most matter warpers can now manipulate matter at the Atomic or Sub atomic or Super Sub atomic * my word for crap like quarks* or Even Quantum Level *my word for crap like photons, gluons, neutrinos, gravitons and other really tiny crap* ,  So Molecule man's powers are outdated and are rather weak."
They werent that weak when he went up against Pre Retcon Beyonder..."
That's because that comic was printed before the day when Quantum physics truly came onto their own, back when no one knew what Neutrons were made out of. "
Nor Gravitons."
No one even knew Gravitons even existed back then.  :P, I forget what's the particle for magnetism?  If I'm right they are photons?  And Gluons are the Strong atomic force, and The weak atomic force is neutrinos?  Or is this list wrong?"
There is no particle for magnetism.  Magnetic forces are not a particle-wave, just a wave form.


OWEN REECE WINS HERE


There is a reason in secret wars II, that the Living Tribunal did not interfere with the Beyonder conflict (HE WAS NOT STRONG ENOUGH AND HE KNEW IT!).

Molecule Man is not limited to manipulating Molecules.  He can manipulate every form of matter, energy (including thought), time and space.

Tier 1: (Omniversal, Omnipotent, Omniscient, Omnitemporal Entities)

  • The One Above All
  • Anyone with the Heart of the Universe (Location/Item)
  • Beyonder(Pre-Retcon)

Tier 1.5: (Pre-Retcon Only – Neigh Omnipotent Being)

  • Molecule Man (Owen Reece)

Tier 2: (Omniversal, Neigh – Omnipotent, Neigh – Omniscient, Omnitemporal Entity)

  • The Living Tribunal

Tier 2.5: (Neigh – Omnipotent, Neigh – Omniscient, Neigh – Omnitemporal Entity)

  • Anyone with The Infinity Gauntlet (When it could be used in Unison)

Tier 3: (Omniversal/Omnitemporal Entities)

  • Eternity/Infinity (Same Being – Two Sides of the Same Coin)
#18 Posted by Perfect Cell (3470 posts) - - Show Bio
Tevnoba said:
"Perfect Cell said:
"King Saturn said:
"But what if the fight is Classic Molecule Man vs Classic Living Tribunal ? How would you then be able to say the LT wins so easy ?
"
Well for one. The Living Tribunal is PRESENCE. He is not made out of matter in any shape or form. How is Classic Molecule Man going to warp the Living Tribunal where there are no mass presents? It would be like shooting a missile at a ghost or like Magneto trying to manipulate air.

"
Owen Reece's power is not limited to Molecules.  He named himself that because that is what he thought he was limited to.

Dreadnaught said:
"Perfect Cell said:
"Dreadnaught said:
"King Saturn said:
"Dreadnaught said:
"King Saturn said:
"I think I see what the Original Poster was trying to do here though. Remember when the Classic Beyonder was above all the beings within the entire Multiverse ? ( during Secret Wars I believe )... well Molecule Man was able to go head to head with the Classic Beyonder... so the Classic Molecule Man may actually be closer to Living Tribunal than we give him credit for...
"
Still his powers are relatively clumsy for a matter warper, most matter warpers can now manipulate matter at the Atomic or Sub atomic or Super Sub atomic * my word for crap like quarks* or Even Quantum Level *my word for crap like photons, gluons, neutrinos, gravitons and other really tiny crap* ,  So Molecule man's powers are outdated and are rather weak."
They werent that weak when he went up against Pre Retcon Beyonder..."
That's because that comic was printed before the day when Quantum physics truly came onto their own, back when no one knew what Neutrons were made out of. "
Nor Gravitons."
No one even knew Gravitons even existed back then.  :P, I forget what's the particle for magnetism?  If I'm right they are photons?  And Gluons are the Strong atomic force, and The weak atomic force is neutrinos?  Or is this list wrong?"
There is no particle for magnetism.  Magnetic forces are not a particle-wave, just a wave form.


OWEN REECE WINS HERE


There is a reason in secret wars II, that the Living Tribunal did not interfere with the Beyonder conflict (HE WAS NOT STRONG ENOUGH AND HE KNEW IT!).

Molecule Man is not limited to manipulating Molecules.  He can manipulate every form of matter, energy (including thought), time and space.

Tier 1: (Omniversal, Omnipotent, Omniscient, Omnitemporal Entities)

  • The One Above All
  • Anyone with the Heart of the Universe (Location/Item)
  • Beyonder(Pre-Retcon)

Tier 1.5: (Pre-Retcon Only – Neigh Omnipotent Being)

  • Molecule Man (Owen Reece)

Tier 2: (Omniversal, Neigh – Omnipotent, Neigh – Omniscient, Omnitemporal Entity)

  • The Living Tribunal

Tier 2.5: (Neigh – Omnipotent, Neigh – Omniscient, Neigh – Omnitemporal Entity)

  • Anyone with The Infinity Gauntlet (When it could be used in Unison)

Tier 3: (Omniversal/Omnitemporal Entities)

  • Eternity/Infinity (Same Being – Two Sides of the Same Coin)
"


Hmm.. TOAA = President of the United State.
Beyonder = Vice President
Molecule Man = Condolisa Rice
The Living Tribunal = The Supreme Court


#19 Posted by Theracles (1366 posts) - - Show Bio

Lt wins here, he is only second to One-Above-All, the Living Tribunal is a prescence of power, he could easily beat Molecule Man as stated on LT's bio that when Thanos gained the Infinity Gauntlet, LT could have stopped him but didn't and Molecule Man probably can't beat Thanos with IG. It would still be an interesting fight.

#20 Posted by SeSAW (3677 posts) - - Show Bio

Molecule Man did fight the beyonder so he could be just as powerful as LT but LT wins cause hes mentally unstable.

#21 Posted by Tevnoba (3494 posts) - - Show Bio
Theracles said:
"Lt wins here, he is only second to One-Above-All, the Living Tribunal is a prescence of power, he could easily beat Molecule Man as stated on LT's bio that when Thanos gained the Infinity Gauntlet, LT could have stopped him but didn't and Molecule Man probably can't beat Thanos with IG. It would still be an interesting fight."
MM could beat Thanos with the Infinity Gauntlet.  He is above LT!!!!!!!!!!
#22 Posted by Theracles (1366 posts) - - Show Bio
Tevnoba said:
"Theracles said:
"Lt wins here, he is only second to One-Above-All, the Living Tribunal is a prescence of power, he could easily beat Molecule Man as stated on LT's bio that when Thanos gained the Infinity Gauntlet, LT could have stopped him but didn't and Molecule Man probably can't beat Thanos with IG. It would still be an interesting fight."
MM could beat Thanos with the Infinity Gauntlet.  He is above LT!!!!!!!!!!"
Really?
#23 Posted by One-Above-All (485 posts) - - Show Bio
Tevnoba said:

OWEN REECE WINS HERE


There is a reason in secret wars II, that the Living Tribunal did not interfere with the Beyonder conflict (HE WAS NOT STRONG ENOUGH AND HE KNEW IT!).
The Living Tribunal not interfering doesn't mean he is weaker than Molecue Man.

He did not interfere when Thanos had the IG, but he could have easily stopped him. The Living Tribunal only acts if a cosmic crime is being committed.
#24 Posted by Tevnoba (3494 posts) - - Show Bio
One-Above-All said:
"Tevnoba said:

OWEN REECE WINS HERE


There is a reason in secret wars II, that the Living Tribunal did not interfere with the Beyonder conflict (HE WAS NOT STRONG ENOUGH AND HE KNEW IT!).
The Living Tribunal not interfering doesn't mean he is weaker than Molecue Man.

He did not interfere when Thanos had the IG, but he could have easily stopped him. The Living Tribunal only acts if a cosmic crime is being committed."
He did not interfere when the Beyonder was going to destroy the universe or when he eliminated Death.  No he was with the group asking MM for help.  The Beyonder's entrance to our Actuality was a cosmic imbalance - just one to big for LT to handle.

Also, he was petitioned to handle Thanos with the gauntlet but refused the petition because it was not a cosmic imbalance just a change.  The elimination of the entire Actuality would be a cosmic imbalance because LT would go with it and even if he somehow survived he would no longer have a purpose.
#25 Posted by Adidas Demon (169 posts) - - Show Bio

Living Tribunal probably knows what's going to happen. He's just around. And the main thing is He doesn't care about anything. Because he's not a humanoid or an anything. In the secret wars II panel. Living tribunal is just there. And it all worked out. stuff ended well. He didn't even have to interfere.

Winner: Living Tribunal

#26 Posted by Tevnoba (3494 posts) - - Show Bio
Adidas Demon said:
"Living Tribunal probably knows what's going to happen. He's just around. And the main thing is He doesn't care about anything. Because he's not a humanoid or an anything. In the secret wars II panel. Living tribunal is just there. And it all worked out. stuff ended well. He didn't even have to interfere.

Winner: Living Tribunal"
Are you people missing the VERY important facts:

1. Beyonder said the Living Tribunal was insignificant to him, Yet Own was actually able to stand up to him for a time.
2. The Watcher said Owen Reece and the Beyonder were the two most powerful beings in the Actuality.
3. When Marsha (Owen's Girlfriend) asked why the cosmic entities would not stop him (included in the list was the Living Tribunal).  Owen said that they could not stop him!
#27 Edited by Lunacyde (17872 posts) - - Show Bio

Generally you cannot go agaisnt the Living Tribunal....LT is omnipotent ...unless you have the heart of the universe or such.

#28 Posted by King Saturn (223812 posts) - - Show Bio
Lunacyde said:
"

Generally you cannot go agaisnt the Living Tribunal....LT is omnipotent ...unless you have the heart of the universe or such.

"
Do you realize how powerful Molecule Man was when Classic Beyonder was existing ?
#29 Posted by Lunacyde (17872 posts) - - Show Bio

Yes and I also realize that generally LT is considered the most powerful being in the MU.....The Living Tribunal possesses infinite power and near-absolute control over the Marvel multiverse, second only to the

#30 Posted by Tevnoba (3494 posts) - - Show Bio
Lunacyde said:
"Yes and I also realize that generally LT is considered the most powerful being in the MU.....The Living Tribunal possesses infinite power and near-absolute control over the Marvel multiverse, second only to the One-Above-All in station, authority and power"
Not just Multiverse, but the Actuality of Marvel.

Lunacyde said:
"

Generally you cannot go agaisnt the Living Tribunal....LT is omnipotent ...unless you have the heart of the universe or such.

"
Omnipotence is relative.  MM and Classic Beyonder were above him.
#31 Posted by King Saturn (223812 posts) - - Show Bio
Lunacyde said:
"Yes and I also realize that generally LT is considered the most powerful being in the MU.....The Living Tribunal possesses infinite power and near-absolute control over the Marvel multiverse, second only to the One-Above-All in station, authority and power"
True. But this concept was not so before Classic Beyonder was Retcon... Molecule Man was stronger than Living Tribunal in yesteryear...
#32 Posted by mr.superior (134 posts) - - Show Bio

No one messes with the LT he's the second most powerful being in the Marvel U. He wins easy.

#33 Posted by Tevnoba (3494 posts) - - Show Bio
mr.superior said:
"No one messes with the LT he's the second most powerful being in the Marvel U. He wins easy."
Not when your talking about MM from Classic Beyonder Era.
#34 Posted by Alpha (7322 posts) - - Show Bio

The Living Tribunal is only second to The One Above All. The only person that surpassed him was Thanos when he had the Heart of the Universe.

Know one beats him without that.

#35 Posted by Ball Buster (2041 posts) - - Show Bio

LT wins..

#36 Posted by Adidas Demon (169 posts) - - Show Bio

Ok. I should have freshened up before posting. I was only debating if Living Tribunal was in any actual trouble during Secret Wars II. I would say no. But It was pretty much a fact that Beyonder and Molecule Man. Were the 2 most powerful beings in existence. this has since been fixed. I love the beyonder, and Molecule Man.  Characters that are too powerful for any ones good.  Nowadays Molecule man gets defeated by his emotions and insecurities.  Why do we do these battles of the unbeatables, Living tribunal, Beyonder, Molecule Man, TOA.  Can't they all be winners?

Winner: Stan Lee

#37 Posted by King Saturn (223812 posts) - - Show Bio
I dont even care anymore... no one is budging on there stances... or even for that fact showing that LT could actually beat Classic MM or even Vice Versa... so whats the point of even keeping up the discussion here ?
#38 Posted by Alpha (7322 posts) - - Show Bio

Some are not seeing clear.

#39 Posted by Hedatary (3768 posts) - - Show Bio
King Saturn said:
"I dont even care anymore... no one is budging on there stances... or even for that fact showing that LT could actually beat Classic MM or even Vice Versa... so whats the point of even keeping up the discussion here ? "
This is the reason why i never even bothered to enter this thread lol
#40 Posted by Perfect Cell (3470 posts) - - Show Bio

Living Tribunal Wins. He is the LAW of the universe.

The reason why Living tribunal didn't do anything in the Secret War, is because it had nothing to do with the multiverse. Eternity wasn't even effected by it because during the Secret Wars, Beyonder summoned all of the contendents to his made up little world. It was more of poketed dimension than anything else. Living Tribunal wins.

#41 Posted by lordraiden (6948 posts) - - Show Bio
Tevnoba said:
"Lunacyde said:
"Yes and I also realize that generally LT is considered the most powerful being in the MU.....The Living Tribunal possesses infinite power and near-absolute control over the Marvel multiverse, second only to the One-Above-All in station, authority and power"
Not just Multiverse, but the Actuality of Marvel.

Lunacyde said:
"

Generally you cannot go agaisnt the Living Tribunal....LT is omnipotent ...unless you have the heart of the universe or such.

"
Omnipotence is relative.  MM and Classic Beyonder were above him.
"

Well put Tev, and all correct! People need to stop looking at it from today's perspective and realize that at that period of time, Beyonder & MM>everyone from LT downwards! I've posted this pic before, and i'll do so again, for all those who think LT had any sought of chance, here he is with the rest of the Marvel pantheon pleading to reason with the Beyonder:

#42 Posted by Man Without Fear (219 posts) - - Show Bio

Living Tribunal

#43 Posted by Alpha (7322 posts) - - Show Bio
lordraiden said:
"Tevnoba said:
"Lunacyde said:
"Yes and I also realize that generally LT is considered the most powerful being in the MU.....The Living Tribunal possesses infinite power and near-absolute control over the Marvel multiverse, second only to the One-Above-All in station, authority and power"
Not just Multiverse, but the Actuality of Marvel.

Lunacyde said:
"

Generally you cannot go agaisnt the Living Tribunal....LT is omnipotent ...unless you have the heart of the universe or such.

"
Omnipotence is relative.  MM and Classic Beyonder were above him.
"

Well put Tev, and all correct! People need to stop looking at it from today's perspective and realize that at that period of time, Beyonder & MM>everyone from LT downwards! I've posted this pic before, and i'll do so again, for all those who think LT had any sought of chance, here he is with the rest of the Marvel pantheon pleading to reason with the Beyonder:

"
How did come to that notion? What was shown at that period to make you think that? LT has always been a hearld of the One Above All adnonly his power was greater.
#44 Posted by Tevnoba (3494 posts) - - Show Bio
Alpha said:
"lordraiden said:
"Tevnoba said:
"Lunacyde said:
"Yes and I also realize that generally LT is considered the most powerful being in the MU.....The Living Tribunal possesses infinite power and near-absolute control over the Marvel multiverse, second only to the One-Above-All in station, authority and power"
Not just Multiverse, but the Actuality of Marvel.

Lunacyde said:
"

Generally you cannot go agaisnt the Living Tribunal....LT is omnipotent ...unless you have the heart of the universe or such.

"
Omnipotence is relative.  MM and Classic Beyonder were above him.
"

Well put Tev, and all correct! People need to stop looking at it from today's perspective and realize that at that period of time, Beyonder & MM>everyone from LT downwards! I've posted this pic before, and i'll do so again, for all those who think LT had any sought of chance, here he is with the rest of the Marvel pantheon pleading to reason with the Beyonder:

"
How did come to that notion? What was shown at that period to make you think that? LT has always been a hearld of the One Above All adnonly his power was greater."
Because the Beyonder is equal to TOAA (Stan Lee once said so!)  Also, I sure that everyone can agree that LT would stand no chance against TOAA, correct?  Well if Beyonder=TOAA and TOAA>>>>>>>>LT and would have no chance against him, yet MM actually stood against The Beyonder (doing the math . . .. ) MM>>>LT.
#45 Posted by Perfect Cell (3470 posts) - - Show Bio

As Jesus is the right hand of God; Beyonder is the right hand of TOAA... But the Living Tribunal represents the Bible.

However... Molecule Man will stand no chance against the Law of the Universe unless he has the Heart of the Universe.

#46 Posted by Tevnoba (3494 posts) - - Show Bio
Perfect Cell said:
"As Jesus is the right hand of God; Beyonder is the right hand of TOAA... But the Living Tribunal represents the Bible.

However... Molecule Man will stand no chance against the Law of the Universe unless he has the Heart of the Universe."
Where did you get that?  Beyonder is not the right hand of TOAA.  He is TOAA of his own Actuality.
#47 Posted by oldmagic (5295 posts) - - Show Bio

bha, The Presence comes and spanks them for being bad and destroying the entire omniverse just for finding out who is stronger then the other.

#48 Edited by lordraiden (6948 posts) - - Show Bio
Perfect Cell said:
"As Jesus is the right hand of God; Beyonder is the right hand of TOAA... But the Living Tribunal represents the Bible.

However... Molecule Man will stand no chance against the Law of the Universe unless he has the Heart of the Universe."

Beyonder is NOT the right hand of TOAA, Beyonder is a TOAA himself! So to put it mildly, TOAA=Beyonder!
#49 Posted by Ego (2324 posts) - - Show Bio

wth!? how is the beyonder toaa?? in illuminati xavior said that the beyonder hinted him that beyonder was just a inhuman with extra ordinary powers. the beyonder is omnipotent, but onmipotant only! he is not omniscience nor omniexistant nor omniversal.

#50 Posted by Alpha (7322 posts) - - Show Bio
Tevnoba said:
"Alpha said:
"lordraiden said:
"Tevnoba said:
"Lunacyde said:
"Yes and I also realize that generally LT is considered the most powerful being in the MU.....The Living Tribunal possesses infinite power and near-absolute control over the Marvel multiverse, second only to the One-Above-All in station, authority and power"
Not just Multiverse, but the Actuality of Marvel.

Lunacyde said:
"

Generally you cannot go agaisnt the Living Tribunal....LT is omnipotent ...unless you have the heart of the universe or such.

"
Omnipotence is relative.  MM and Classic Beyonder were above him.
"

Well put Tev, and all correct! People need to stop looking at it from today's perspective and realize that at that period of time, Beyonder & MM>everyone from LT downwards! I've posted this pic before, and i'll do so again, for all those who think LT had any sought of chance, here he is with the rest of the Marvel pantheon pleading to reason with the Beyonder:

"
How did come to that notion? What was shown at that period to make you think that? LT has always been a hearld of the One Above All adnonly his power was greater."
Because the Beyonder is equal to TOAA (Stan Lee once said so!)  Also, I sure that everyone can agree that LT would stand no chance against TOAA, correct?  Well if Beyonder=TOAA and TOAA>>>>>>>>LT and would have no chance against him, yet MM actually stood against The Beyonder (doing the math . . .. ) MM>>>LT."

The beyonder was the only life in his universe. A universe that is still part of the greater universe (ex: Microverse) that The One Above All is master. Why would he be as strong? Doesn't make sense. Either way, the Molecule Man would be nothing to LT @ anytime in his existence.