Liu Kang vs Chun Li H2H

Liu Kang from Mortal Kombat vs Chun Li from Street Fighter

-H2H Only

-No Prep

-Morals On in Character

Battle Takes place in a Martial Arts Dojo Starting 10 feet Apart

VS

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't Chun-Li's signature moves involving the legs?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't Chun-Li's signature moves involving the legs?

@The_Last_Son_of_Czarnia said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't Chun-Li's signature moves involving the legs?

Yes.

In that case, I would back Kang. Chun-Li's special got nerfed and she's up against the champion of Mortal Kombat.

Kang probably.

Kang wins after toying around with her for 20 minutes.

In that case, I would back Kang. Chun-Li's special got nerfed and she's up against the champion of Mortal Kombat.

Kang wins after toying around with her for 20 minutes.

@Vance Astro said:

@MonsterStomp said:

Kang wins after toying around with her for 20 minutes.

Based on what? Do you think he's a far better fighter than her because he's the focal point of MK or has he done something to make you think this?

Pretty much, he's won the MK tornerment more times then anyone else. Meaning Liu Kang can hang with heavier hitters then her.

@Vance Astro:

Lui Kang is just an overall better fighter. He is faster and is way more disciplined and skilled than Chun Li (has trained with monks all his life). Let's also not forget not Lui Kang fights to kill.

Chun Li for overall sexiness, did you see wut she did to vega?!

@Vance Astro:

Lui Kang is just an overall better fighter. He is faster and is way more disciplined and skilled than Chun Li (has trained with monks all his life). Let's also not forget not Lui Kang fights to kill.

Pretty much, he's won the MK tornerment more times then anyone else. Meaning Liu Kang can hang with heavier hitters then her.

@Vance Astro said:

@MonsterStomp said:

Pretty much, he's won the MK tornerment more times then anyone else. Meaning Liu Kang can hang with heavier hitters then her.

I don't think this necessarily means he's a better fighter. I don't think you know the difference in skill level between who they've fought. As far as "heavy hitters" are concerned...what do you mean Goro? I don't think his hits carry the same destructive force as SF projectiles (sonicbooms,hadoukens etc.)

I didn't necessarily mean "heavy hitters". I mean, Liu Kang has been a consistant threat to Shang Tsung and Shao Khan. Who are, in turn, Earthrealm's greatest threats. Powerful soul sipping scorcerer and the emperor of the Outworld that rivals Raiden.

This is a mismatch, Liu would take this fairly easily.

I didn't necessarily mean "heavy hitters". I mean, Liu Kang has been a consistant threat to Shang Tsung and Shao Khan. Who are, in turn, Earthrealm's greatest threats. Powerful soul sipping scorcerer and the emperor of the Outworld that rivals Raiden.

This is a mismatch, Liu would take this fairly easily.

I'm going with Liu Kang.

I'm going with Liu Kang.

@Vance Astro said:

@MonsterStomp said:

I didn't necessarily mean "heavy hitters". I mean, Liu Kang has been a consistant threat to Shang Tsung and Shao Khan. Who are, in turn, Earthrealm's greatest threats. Powerful soul sipping scorcerer and the emperor of the Outworld that rivals Raiden.

Right, but I don't think this means he can beat Chun-Li. That's really just ABC logic. You're assuming that if the roles were reversed that Shang Tsung and Shao Kahn would beat Chun-Li? I don't know about that. There's also the fact that Liu isn't them. Liu doesn't take souls, he's not a powerful sorcerer and his power doesn't rival Raiden's. Shang Tsung's soul taking wasn't a factor when he fought Liu, he basically fought him h2h and got his ass-kicked and I know Shao Kahn's power is supposed to rival Raiden's but when they engage in Mortal Kombat, I believe that goes out the window because when Lui fought Raiden he was killed in one move.

Shang's magics were a factor in his fight with Liu, Liu Kang is/was just good enough to beat Shang inspite of his abilities. And please note that Kahn IS Shang (to a degree) only FAR more powerful. Kahn can/does everything Shang can, so the same skills and knowledge used to beat Shang can be applied against Kahn only they have to be applied at a much higher level.

When Liu fought Kahn in MK2/MK9, Kahn's magic was in check because of the touney rules and it is a fact that Kahn underestimated Liu from the start of their fight. However, in the OG timeline of MK3 Kang beat Kahn heads up, save for the fact that Raiden was protecting his soul from Kahn's magic, after he witnessed KL get killed in front of him. The MK9 story is a amagumation of the MK3 story and the the underestimation Kahn had of all the Earth warrior in MK2. All that said, given the same opportunities i don't think Chun Liu could do those same things.

- Chun is skilled and focused no doubt, but is she skilled and focused enough to take down Shang? Maybe. Chun hasn't faced a threat like Shang at any point in her story, so who can say for sure.

- Again, Chun Li is skilled, focused, and motivated no doubt, but is she skilled enough, focused enough, and motivated enough to beat Kahn? I'd say no.

In the MK story, Liu was uniquely qualified to take down Shang Tsung, and further-more Shao Kahn, due to knowledge given to him by Bo Rai Cho and Raiden and his over all training with the Shaolin and White Lotus. Gen is an awesome fighter and I don't doubt his ability or his training capabilities, but I think it would be remiss to say Gen's training could supplement training from the Shaolin, White Lotus, Bo Rai Cho, and Raiden.

I wouldn't say this fight is a mismatch, but Chun Li looses all the same. Liu Kang's control and the proven fact that his level of understanding of combat rivals the gods is why I'd give it to Kang.

Shang's magics were a factor in his fight with Liu, Liu Kang is/was just good enough to beat Shang inspite of his abilities. And please note that Kahn IS Shang (to a degree) only FAR more powerful. Kahn can/does everything Shang can, so the same skills and knowledge used to beat Shang can be applied against Kahn only they have to be applied at a much higher level.

When Liu fought Kahn in MK2/MK9, Kahn's magic was in check because of the touney rules and it is a fact that Kahn underestimated Liu from the start of their fight. However, in the OG timeline of MK3 Kang beat Kahn heads up, save for the fact that Raiden was protecting his soul from Kahn's magic, after he witnessed KL get killed in front of him. The MK9 story is a amagumation of the MK3 story and the the underestimation Kahn had of all the Earth warrior in MK2. All that said, given the same opportunities i don't think Chun Liu could do those same things.

Again, Chun Li is skilled, focused, and motivated no doubt, but is she skilled enough, focused enough, and motivated enough to beat Kahn? I'd say no.

Chun is skilled and focused no doubt, but is she skilled and focused enough to take down Shang? Maybe. Chun hasn't faced a threat like Shang at any point in her story, so who can say for sure.

In the MK story, Liu was uniquely qualified to take down Shang Tsung, and further-more Shao Kahn, due to knowledge given to him by Bo Rai Cho and Raiden and his over all training with the Shaolin and White Lotus. Gen is an awesome fighter and I don't doubt his ability or his training capabilities, but I think it would be remiss to say Gen's training could supplement training from the Shaolin, White Lotus, Bo Rai Cho, and Raiden.

I wouldn't say this fight is a mismatch, but Chun Li looses all the same. Liu Kang's control and the proven fact that his level of understanding of combat rivals the gods is why I'd give it to Kang.

This is pretty close I think but would probably go with Liu Kang for the sole reason of him being the Champion of MK, and punching a hole through Shao Kahn's chest defeating him in Mortal Kombat. But I'm sure he boosted his chi power to do so, but taking on Shao Kahn in H2H is pretty impressive imo. Shao Kahn normally isn't quite as powerful as Raiden is, under normal circumstances but is somewhat close to him just not him though.

Since this pure H2H it could be closer perhaps. Is Chun-Li considered top 3 fighter in SFU? Because LK as far as H2H goes is for sure in MKU.

This was a pretty cool feat from LK I thought

Chun-Li.

Liu

@Vance Astro said:

@onilordasmodeus said:

Shang's magics were a factor in his fight with Liu, Liu Kang is/was just good enough to beat Shang inspite of his abilities. And please note that Kahn IS Shang (to a degree) only FAR more powerful. Kahn can/does everything Shang can, so the same skills and knowledge used to beat Shang can be applied against Kahn only they have to be applied at a much higher level.

I didn't say his "magic" wasn't. I said his "soul taking" wasn't because the user I responded to said that Shang Tsung is a powerful "soul sipping sorcerer". If it was that easy to take souls, he would have killed Liu, right?

Yes and no. The comon misconception about Shang's soul drain ability is that he has to "weaken" a person to take their souls. That isn't the case. Shang can completely drain someone "easy" if he catches them by suprise or if they are restrained in some way. In combat his drain has the same properties but since his opponenet can fight back physically and are able to interupt the process (i.e. punch him in the face), that is what makes it "hard" for Shang to drain someone. Shang's "soul taking (sipping)" is the crux of his magical ability and it ranges from reading, to mimicing, to taking a portion of the life force, to taking all of the life force. At all levels it is a factor and poses a threat...

...but just because Liu could beat him doesn't mean Chun Li could.

@Vance Astro said:

@onilordasmodeus said:

When Liu fought Kahn in MK2/MK9, Kahn's magic was in check because of the touney rules and it is a fact that Kahn underestimated Liu from the start of their fight. However, in the OG timeline of MK3 Kang beat Kahn heads up, save for the fact that Raiden was protecting his soul from Kahn's magic, after he witnessed KL get killed in front of him. The MK9 story is a amagumation of the MK3 story and the the underestimation Kahn had of all the Earth warrior in MK2. All that said, given the same opportunities i don't think Chun Liu could do those same things.

Doesn't make sense. If Kahn is as powerful as Raiden then how do you explain what happened between Raiden and Liu? Also, Liu Kang isn't Shao Kahn or Shang Tsung, they have completely different abilities. Liu is essentially a martial artist with a little fire power, nothing out of the ordinary from what Chun-Li has already dealt with.

What happened between Liu and Raiden was Raiden fried him; if Kahn's soul drain wasn't hampered by the Gods, Kang would have been dead with the rest of humanity. Kahn's magic is God-like, and that, among other things, puts him on Raiden's level. But, just like if Raiden chooses to fight in mortal kombat and is bound by the rules, so too is Shao Kahn.

And just to clarify, the only reason I brought up the MK2/MK3/MK9 story-line was because you said you thought she could do what he did, beat Shang and Kahn; that ties into training, which is an intergral part of the story. Plenty of other characters in MK have trained with great masters, just as Chun Li has, and have beaten some stiff competition, but it was said that Kang did, and was capable of doing, more than any of them when it came to combat.

To suggest that Liu is an "ordinary" fighter, with "ordinary" skill, would be discounting the extra-ordinary things he has accomplished.

@Vance Astro said:

@onilordasmodeus said:

Again, Chun Li is skilled, focused, and motivated no doubt, but is she skilled enough, focused enough, and motivated enough to beat Kahn? I'd say no.

Could be? I wouldn't know..but Liu Kang isn't Shao Kahn. I could say Chun-Li defeated Juri and Urien and I don't think Liu could beat them. It's simply ABC logic..that would also have to be proven.

Is it ABC logic? Or is it a feat. You could say Chun Li defeated Juri, but the fact is Juri one shotted her in the SF4 Anime and nothing can be officially confirmed from the SF4 game. You could say Chun beat Urien in SF3, but the fact is that it is non-canonical.

Could Liu beat Juri or Urien? IDK, but Liu has canoncially defeated Shang, Kahn, and Shinnok, feats which Chun Li cannot match.

@Vance Astro said:

@onilordasmodeus said:

Chun is skilled and focused no doubt, but is she skilled and focused enough to take down Shang? Maybe. Chun hasn't faced a threat like Shang at any point in her story, so who can say for sure.

She hasn't faced a shapeshifter, but she has fought powerful characters though.

There is a lot Chun Li hasn't face in comparison to Liu. And the "powerful characters" she has faced aren't on the same level as what Liu has faced.

@Vance Astro said:

@onilordasmodeus said:

In the MK story, Liu was uniquely qualified to take down Shang Tsung, and further-more Shao Kahn, due to knowledge given to him by Bo Rai Cho and Raiden and his over all training with the Shaolin and White Lotus. Gen is an awesome fighter and I don't doubt his ability or his training capabilities, but I think it would be remiss to say Gen's training could supplement training from the Shaolin, White Lotus, Bo Rai Cho, and Raiden.

I don't know what to say about this, I don't really think it matters who trained who, only what they've done with that training.

And what has Chun done with her training? The wins Chun has under her belt can't compare to those of Liu Kang.

@Vance Astro said:

@onilordasmodeus said:

I wouldn't say this fight is a mismatch, but Chun Li looses all the same. Liu Kang's control and the proven fact that his level of understanding of combat rivals the gods is why I'd give it to Kang.

I don't think he really has the edge in any area.

I would simply say you are entitled to you opinion, and you are, and leave just it at that, but I think it is clear that the facts are in his favor. Chun Li is good, but she isn't on Kang's level.

I like how no one is posting on-panel feats of their claims, what has Shao Kahn or Shang Tsung done on-panel wise that would suggest their high-tier. And Shao Kahn soul draining feats are being overplayed, the only time he was seen using was when he absorbed Shang Tsung souls (someone who is dependent on Shao Kahn for power and sustainability) and distributed them to Sindel. He did not absorb all of souls of Earthrealm inhabitants which is clearly seen in the story that the US Military along with the Police Department were engaging hostiles as well as the fighters Raiden was accompanied with, and Shao Kahn even sent his warrior to capture people so they could have their souls ripping out via the soulnados that Quan Chi was opening which would be pointless if he could in fact take billions of souls on a whim.

Yes and no. The comon misconception about Shang's soul drain ability is that he has to "weaken" a person to take their souls. That isn't the case. Shang can completely drain someone "easy" if he catches them by suprise or if they are restrained in some way. In combat his drain has the same properties but since his opponenet can fight back physically and are able to interupt the process (i.e. punch him in the face), that is what makes it "hard" for Shang to drain someone. Shang's "soul taking (sipping)" is the crux of his magical ability and it ranges from reading, to mimicing, to taking a portion of the life force, to taking all of the life force. At all levels it is a factor and poses a threat...

...but just because Liu could beat him doesn't mean Chun Li could.

What happened between Liu and Raiden was Raiden fried him; if Kahn's soul drain wasn't hampered by the Gods, Kang would have been dead with the rest of humanity. Kahn's magic is God-like, and that, among other things, puts him on Raiden's level. But, just like if Raiden chooses to fight in mortal kombat and is bound by the rules, so too is Shao Kahn.

And just to clarify, the only reason I brought up the MK2/MK3/MK9 story-line was because you said you thought she could do what he did, beat Shang and Kahn; that ties into training, which is an intergral part of the story. Plenty of other characters in MK have trained with great masters, just as Chun Li has, and have beaten some stiff competition, but it was said that Kang did, and was capable of doing, more than any of them when it came to combat.

To suggest that Liu is an "ordinary" fighter, with "ordinary" skill, would be discounting the extra-ordinary things he has accomplished.

Is it ABC logic? Or is it a feat. You could say Chun Li defeated Juri, but the fact is Juri one shotted her in the SF4 Anime and nothing can be officially confirmed from the SF4 game. You could say Chun beat Urien in SF3, but the fact is that it is non-canonical.

Could Liu beat Juri or Urien? IDK, but Liu has canoncially defeated Shang, Kahn, and Shinnok, feats which Chun Li cannot match.

I would simply say you are entitled to you opinion, and you are, and leave just it at that, but I think it is clear that the facts are in his favor. Chun Li is good, but she isn't on Kang's level.

@Vance Astro: He seems more skilled. 

@Vance Astrosaid:

@onilordasmodeussaid:

I would simply say you are entitled to you opinion,and you are, and leave just it at that, but I think it is clear that the facts are in his favor. Chun Li is good, but she isn't on Kang's level.

Facts aren't in Liu's favor because I don't think his feats are better. I also think there's stuff being left out in this argument.

If there are things being left out, which I don't think there are, I'm happy to explore whatever. My intent is to be as thorough as possible.

@Vance Astro said:

@onilordasmodeus said:

What happened between Liu and Raiden was Raiden fried him; if Kahn's soul drain wasn't hampered by the Gods, Kang would have been dead with the rest of humanity. Kahn's magic is God-like, and that, among other things, puts him on Raiden's level. But, just like if Raiden chooses to fight in mortal kombat and is bound by the rules, so too is Shao Kahn.

And just to clarify, the only reason I brought up the MK2/MK3/MK9 story-line was because you said you thought she could do what he did, beat Shang and Kahn; that ties into training, which is an intergral part of the story. Plenty of other characters in MK have trained with great masters, just as Chun Li has, and have beaten some stiff competition, but it was said that Kang did, and was capable of doing, more than any of them when it came to combat.

To suggest that Liu is an "ordinary" fighter, with "ordinary" skill, would be discounting the extra-ordinary things he has accomplished.

I know what happened between Liu and Raiden. What i'm not understanding is how people can say Shao Kahn's power is godlike or comparable to that of Raiden when, Liu attacked Raiden and was killed instantly. So if you're saying the MK tournament is bound by rules, then what are the rules that allowed Liu to beat Shao Kahn? There seems to be something missing from this equation because Raiden proved what "god level" power does to a human.

You're saying that alot of characters in MK have trained with great masters but I doubt those characters you are referring to trained with someone any where near as skilled as Gen.

The main rules would be mortal, and kombat. There are other rules to MK tourneys, but I think these are the most apropriete.

- Shao Kahn is an immortal (through magic or otherwise idk), and with his magic in full effect he is nigh-unstoppable (shown throughout his back story, his accomplishments throughout the MK5-7 arch, and the end game of MK9). Fighting as an immortal (with his magics unrestrained) would be a transgression against the rules, hence he is vulnerable.

- Shao Kahn also doesn't have to fight at all, demonstrated in MK3 when he just took all the souls of Earth in his invasion. Doing that in a tournament though would be against the rules.

Kahn's "defeats" in either MK2, MKSM, MK3, or MK9 were all under different circumstances.

- MK2 ultimately ends with Earth's fighters "escaping Outworld". Details around his actual "defeat" are a mistery.

- MKSM had KL and LK fighting Kahn with Raiden joining the fight in the end, ending with Kahn being "killed".

- MK3 had KL and LK (who's souls were protected by Raiden) fighting Kahn either together or consecutively. Either way KL lost his life and that fueled LK with a "rage" and he attacked and defeated Kahn.

- MK9, like I said earlier, was a combination of MK2 and 3.

I'd like to add that after the MK1-3 time frame in the story, Kahn never lost another battle and as such he went on to become the supreme Champion of MK in Armageddon. Canonically, Kang was the only mortal, or immortal, fighter to be beat him (stretching back into Kahn's 10,000+ year reign as Emperor), other than EG infused Raiden.

Also, I cannot give to many specifics on each kombatants master as their isn't enough detail their, but their is one character that I would say was trained by a 2 masters greater than Gen, Li Mei.

Li Mei was trained by Shujinko and Bo Rai Cho, and in the short time she's been around she's defeated Kano, and won a kombat tournament held by Shang Tsung and Quan Chi, though she lost to one of them in the end. She also fought along side Bo Rai Cho in the MKD battle with Onaga's forces, and played her part in the victroy over Onaga himself. There isn't much to say about her Armageddon story.

IDK if she could beat Chun Li, but her training would suggest she is as capable a figher as she is.

@Vance Astro said:

@onilordasmodeus said:

Is it ABC logic? Or is it a feat. You could say Chun Li defeated Juri, but the fact is Juri one shotted her in the SF4 Anime and nothing can be officially confirmed from the SF4 game. You could say Chun beat Urien in SF3, but the fact is that it is non-canonical.

Could Liu beat Juri or Urien? IDK, but Liu has canoncially defeated Shang, Kahn, and Shinnok, feats which Chun Li cannot match.

It's both. It's ABC Logic because where dealing with a bunch of characters that are alot different in comparison. It's a feat because those are powerful characters but obviously when you break it down just because you beat one character doesn't mean you can beat another. Chun-Li defeated Juri in canon and SFIV IS CANON, you've said this before and it wasn't true the first time. You don't have to wait for the next game in storyline for the previous one to be canon, YOU made that up, not Capcom. Also the SF4 anime ISN'T canon. Chun-Li defeated Urien, it happened no matter how you try and take her feats away from her. SF3 is CANON, any denial of that is false.

To be clear, I'm not trying to take anything away from her, but it is a fact that not all endings in SF, or any fighting game, are canon. What proof could you provide that the events in those are?

And I'll conceed that the SF4 Anime isn't canon, even though in Chun's in-game rivalry cutscene Juri asks her if she wants "another beating", but Chun Li defeating Juri in-game is only in her story, not Juri's or anyone elses. How can anyone say definitively that she did anything when it isn't corroborated in any other place in the game or the series?

And the same goes for SF3.

Lastly, not taking into concideration the SF4 anime, how powerful is Juri anyway? And what about Urien makes him such a power house?

Liu kang has beaten more powerful characters than Chun Li

@Vance Astrosaid:

@Nefarioussaid:

@Vance Astro: He seems more skilled.

Based on what feats?

@nick_hero22

said:

I like how no one is posting on-panel feats of their claims, what has Shao Kahn or Shang Tsung done on-panel wise that would suggest their high-tier. And Shao Kahn soul draining feats are being overplayed, the only time he was seen using was when he absorbed Shang Tsung souls (someone who is dependent on Shao Kahn for power and sustainability) and distributed them to Sindel. He did not absorb all of souls of Earthrealm inhabitants which is clearly seen in the story that the US Military along with the Police Department were engaging hostiles as well as the fighters Raiden was accompanied with, and Shao Kahn even sent his warrior to capture people so they could have their souls ripping out via the soulnados that Quan Chi was opening which would be pointless if he could in fact take billions of souls on a whim.

Agreed. Chun Li has feats and skill would kill Kang with her Machine Gun kicks.

Kang is only winning here due to people placing value on Game Mechanics.

The main rules would be mortal, and kombat. There are other rules to MK tourneys, but I think these are the most apropriete.

- Shao Kahn is an immortal (through magic or otherwise idk), and with his magic in full effect he is nigh-unstoppable (shown throughout his back story, his accomplishments throughout the MK5-7 arch, and the end game of MK9). Fighting as an immortal (with his magics unrestrained) would be a transgression against the rules, hence he is vulnerable.

- Shao Kahn also doesn't have to fight at all, demonstrated in MK3 when he just took all the souls of Earth in his invasion. Doing that in a tournament though would be against the rules.

Kahn's "defeats" in either MK2, MKSM, MK3, or MK9 were all under different circumstances.

- MK2 ultimately ends with Earth's fighters "escaping Outworld". Details around his actual "defeat" are a mistery.

- MKSM had KL and LK fighting Kahn with Raiden joining the fight in the end, ending with Kahn being "killed".

- MK3 had KL and LK (who's souls were protected by Raiden) fighting Kahn either together or consecutively. Either way KL lost his life and that fueled LK with a "rage" and he attacked and defeated Kahn.

- MK9, like I said earlier, was a combination of MK2 and 3.

I'd like to add that after the MK1-3 time frame in the story, Kahn never lost another battle and as such he went on to become the supreme Champion of MK in Armageddon. Canonically, Kang was the only mortal, or immortal, fighter to be beat him (stretching back into Kahn's 10,000+ year reign as Emperor), other than EG infused Raiden.

Also, I cannot give to many specifics on each kombatants master as their isn't enough detail their, but their is one character that I would say was trained by a 2 masters greater than Gen, Li Mei.

Li Mei was trained by Shujinko and Bo Rai Cho, and in the short time she's been around she's defeated Kano, and won a kombat tournament held by Shang Tsung and Quan Chi, though she lost to one of them in the end. She also fought along side Bo Rai Cho in the MKD battle with Onaga's forces, and played her part in the victroy over Onaga himself. There isn't much to say about her Armageddon story.

IDK if she could beat Chun Li, but her training would suggest she is as capable a figher as she is.

To be clear, I'm not trying to take anything away from her, but it is a fact that not all endings in SF, or any fighting game, are canon. What proof could you provide that the events in those are?

And I'll conceed that the SF4 Anime isn't canon, even though in Chun's in-game rivalry cutscene Juri asks her if she wants "another beating", but Chun Li defeating Juri in-game is only in her story, not Juri's or anyone elses. How can anyone say definitively that she did anything when it isn't corroborated in any other place in the game or the series?

And the same goes for SF3.

Lastly, not taking into concideration the SF4 anime, how powerful is Juri anyway? And what about Urien makes him such a power house?

Concerning the post speaking of Kahn never stealing/taking souls, that is false he did but they just implemented it in a different way in MK9...also forgot to mention is Raiden pretty much protected the Earth's warriors souls(as he states in the MK3 intro) but their lives are not invulnerable, only when they died were their souls snagged by Quan-Chi(the ones who fell/died to Shang Tsung uber powered Sindel that is...before Nightwolf killed himself and Sindel)

Shao Kahn could and did take Earth's souls except some, thing is in the original MK3 arch he was seen absorbing souls...MK9 toned down a bit you'll notice. Here you'll notice Shao Kahn is clearly absorbing/taking a lot of souls on Earthrealm, but Raiden states he's protected their souls(the fighters chosen warriors of Earth Realm)

The problem with the Shao Kahn/Raiden discussion is both tend to jobber often, especially Raiden...both are bound by rules of the Elder Gods, Raiden has to take a mortal form in order to fight as well as be challenged(unless he defies their rules and takes chances) Shao Kahn can't just invade a realm and take it over without the rules of Mortal Kombat or he faces judgements/penalty of the Elder Gods(as we've seen in MK9) Overall, no power ups, amps, fair play Raiden is overall more powerful then Shao Kahn. Raiden can't fight fairly in Outworld because his powers are severaly compromised and weaker then normal, thus giving Kahn an edge. Earthrealm however, Raiden would mop the floor with Kahn as he did with Shinnok years ago.

MK 9 is a freaking retcon, you can't pull information for MK 3 which was retcon'ed and then pull information from MK 9 like they are apart of the same timeline, MK 9 retcon'ed out what happen in the previous storylines (MK 1,2,3), so I have no idea why what Shao Kahn did in MK 3 is relevant to this thread since it basically never happened. Ed Boon has confirmed this in several interviews and quotes.

"Raiden is about to be killed by Shao Kahn, and just before he delivers the last blow, Raiden sends a mental message to his earlier self by saying that he must win, and the camera rewinds back to Mortal Kombat 1. The Raiden from Mortal Kombat 1 then gets the message and experiences a premonition. The game then spans Mortal Kombat 1, 2, and 3, retelling the story with an enlightened Raiden, who has changed the course of events. Eventually, everything the player has seen happen before — Liu Kang winning, Lin Kuei turning into cybernetic ninjas, has been altered. You might see a cybernetic character who wasn't before, and a different version of events."

Game mechanics have nothing to do with my opinion on who wins. If I'm not mistaken, Chun-Li is not the champion of the tournaments in Street Fighter (correct me if I'm wrong)?

If the MK universe isn't inferior to the SF universe, Liu has won the whole tournament twice.

Liu kang should win this , Chun li as strong as she is , i have seen her get damaged quickly against power characters like liu kang , she cant take too much damage , liu kang however is very durable 

If the MK universe isn't inferior to the SF universe

she cant take too much damage 

@The_Last_Son_of_Czarnia: Thats the point. He champion of MK mutiple times. Yet his showings are way lower than the Champions and NON Champions of SF.

To me being Champion of MK is like being Champs of Minor Leagues when compared to SF who have torunaments like World Series.

Evil Ryu and Akuma showings alone would decimate Shao Khan and Raiden together in power.

So Liu Kang play pee wee baseball and is the best. Now he faces Chun Li who regulary plays in the World Series! Who wins?

Concerning the post speaking of Kahn never stealing/taking souls, that is false he did but they just implemented it in a different way in MK9...also forgot to mention is Raiden pretty much protected the Earth's warriors souls(as he states in the MK3 intro) but their lives are not invulnerable, only when they died were their souls snagged by Quan-Chi(the ones who fell/died to Shang Tsung uber powered Sindel that is...before Nightwolf killed himself and Sindel)

Shao Kahn could and did take Earth's souls except some, thing is in the original MK3 arch he was seen absorbing souls...MK9 toned down a bit you'll notice. Here you'll notice Shao Kahn is clearly absorbing/taking a lot of souls on Earthrealm, but Raiden states he's protected their souls(the fighters chosen warriors of Earth Realm)

The problem with the Shao Kahn/Raiden discussion is both tend to jobber often, especially Raiden...both are bound by rules of the Elder Gods, Raiden has to take a mortal form in order to fight as well as be challenged(unless he defies their rules and takes chances) Shao Kahn can't just invade a realm and take it over without the rules of Mortal Kombat or he faces judgements/penalty of the Elder Gods(as we've seen in MK9) Overall, no power ups, amps, fair play Raiden is overall more powerful then Shao Kahn. Raiden can't fight fairly in Outworld because his powers are severaly compromised and weaker then normal, thus giving Kahn an edge. Earthrealm however, Raiden would mop the floor with Kahn as he did with Shinnok years ago.

@Vance Astro said:

"I actually don't see why Chun-Li couldn't beat Shao Kahn at this point. What magic or special abilities does he have that would allow him to compete? As far as I can tell he's definitely not more skilled than she is. His feats seem to be based on how much more powerful he is than other characters and not his fighting skill. Liu doesn't have the same powers, he's a mortal who has been trained in martial arts and project fire, nothing out of the ordinary for Chun-Li. I don't know why you think Shujinko or Bo Rai Cho are more skilled than Gen but Gen has some pretty good feats and I doubt they are capable of matching up."

If you can't see why Kahn was the most feared warrior in MK by this point, magic or no magic, then I don't know what else to say. Just the fact that he fought his way through the final battle of armageddon, beating everyone in MK in h2h proves that fact. Kahn is on Raiden's level in terms of power through magical prowess, but he is also on his level in terms of h2h skill as well, if not beyond.

And why do I think Shujinko or Bo Rai Cho are beyond Gen? Because they have accomplished more through out their stories, and they have their own feats and feats of their students.

@Vance Astro said:

"It appears that you are. You basically suggested that Chun-Li didn't beat Juri or Urien because those games weren't canon when in actuality many fights depicted in SF ARE canon and the ones that aren't usually have outcomes that obviously never happened based on what else you know about the story or characters. Only one fight outcome was retconned in following games. I don't need to prove to you that SF3 is canon, you're making the claim that it isn't when nothing has been stated or shown otherwise..so it's YOU that has something to prove. Also if you're saying that Chun-Li didn't beat Juri because it's never shown anywhere else in the game, then in that case you're saying that no characters endings are canon and NOTHING shown in cutscenes or anything else actually happened because you know very well endings don't work like that. So you start by saying you're not trying to take anything away from Chun-Li but then you basically suggest she's done nothing in canon. The way I understand it Juri defeated Chun-Li before the tournament, Chun-Li joins it to find Juri and attempts to take her into custody after defeating her, but she got away. The anime isn't canon but it is based on the games and if i'm not mistaken that would depict the first fight in canon that Juri had with Chun-Li and IIRC, Juri was able to win because Chun-Li took her attention off Juri because she realized there was a child very close to where they were fighting and Juri took advantage."

Who chooses what fights are or are not canon?

We know Ryu beat Sagat in SF1. We know Auma beat Gouken after SF1. We know Akuma beat Bison at the end of SF2.

How do we know these outcomes?

Because that is what has been shown (repeatedly) and confirmed through series the series itself.

But let's look at a different fight, the fight between Akuma and Gen in SFA3. They crossed paths in that game, that we know, yet it is still to this day it is not clear who won that fight. The only thing that is clear is that they encountered each other, and they both survived the fight. In that case it would be false to say Gen won, or vise versa.

Chun Li vs Juri is the exact same thing. We can say they crossed paths. We can say they both survived. But to say that Chun deafeated Juri would be false since there is no other info to go on other than Chun Li's side of the story. Juri's ending suggests that she met Bison in the end and that she hadn't met a fighter yet who pushed her. That is a direct contradiction to the outcome Chun's story.

In the end what is obvious is that there are multiple paths that the overall story could take, and that there are different side stories being told simultaneously. Anything can happen still in the aftermath of SF4 because the dust has not settled yet from that game. And likewise the same can be said about SF3.

@Vance Astro said:

"What I can say for sure is that the Feng Shui Engine increases her speed,ki energy,and strength, which is similar to what the Tanden Engine does for Seth. Urien's power rivals that of Gill. If you don't know who Gill is, he's the final boss of SF3. He has pyro and cryokinesis and his physical ability is superhuman.

This is about the best I could find on understand how powerful Juri is."

A few things...

1) So because Kahn has used, or can use, magic in various capacites to defeat various types of opponents, and his magical power has been shown to be great, and at the same time he has also shown that he can defeat everyone in MK though h2h combat without his magicexcept Liu Kang (shown in MK3 and MKA), he still falls behind Juri even though she uses the Feng Shui Engine to augment her own abilities?

2) The scene, or rather the singular event, in the anime you posted where Juri one shotted Chun Li is out of the discussion due to the vid being non-canon, but all the other feats that she did in that anime are fair game and thus can be used to show how strong she is? (I'd like to point out that there is a vast difference in saying something perifery in a non-canon ending is fair game, and something from a non-canon anime film is canon.)

3) Urien's power stems wholly from conjecture and comparison to his brother Gill, both of which have zero credible "feats" to their names, yet you see Urien's defeat as a credible win, while other characters, with actual credible feats, are seen as inferior?

Going by feats alone, Urien is nothing to Shang or Kahn. And going by feats alone, Juri is right there as well. If we are including anything from the anime, then everything from the anime is fair game, including Chun allowing herself to be distracted and getting one shotted by Juri.

If you can't see why Kahn was the most feared warrior in MK by this point, magic or no magic, then I don't know what else to say. Just the fact that he fought his way through the final battle of armageddon, beating everyone in MK in h2h proves that fact. Kahn is on Raiden's level in terms of power through magical prowess, but he is also on his level in terms of h2h skill as well, if not beyond.

Who chooses what fights are or are not canon?

We know Ryu beat Sagat in SF1. We know Auma beat Gouken after SF1. We know Akuma beat Bison at the end of SF2.

How do we know these outcomes?

Because that is what has been shown (repeatedly) and confirmed through series the series itself.

But let's look at a different fight, the fight between Akuma and Gen in SFA3. They crossed paths in that game, that we know, yet it is still to this day it is not clear who won that fight. The only thing that is clear is that they encountered each other, and they both survived the fight. In that case it would be false to say Gen won, or vise versa.

Chun Li vs Juri is the exact same thing. We can say they crossed paths. We can say they both survived. But to say that Chun deafeated Juri would be false since there is no other info to go on other than Chun Li's side of the story. Juri's ending suggests that she met Bison in the end and that she hadn't met a fighter yet who pushed her. That is a direct contradiction to the outcome Chun's story.

In the end what is obvious is that there are multiple paths that the overall story could take, and that there are different side stories being told simultaneously. Anything can happen still in the aftermath of SF4 because the dust has not settled yet from that game. And likewise the same can be said about SF3.

@Vance Astro said:

"What I can say for sure is that the Feng Shui Engine increases her speed,ki energy,and strength, which is similar to what the Tanden Engine does for Seth. Urien's power rivals that of Gill. If you don't know who Gill is, he's the final boss of SF3. He has pyro and cryokinesis and his physical ability is superhuman.

This is about the best I could find on understand how powerful Juri is."

A few things...

1) So because Kahn has used, or can use, magic in various capacites to defeat various types of opponents, and his magical power has been shown to be great, and at the same time he has also shown that he can defeat everyone in MK though h2h combat without his magicexcept Liu Kang (shown in MK3 and MKA), he still falls behind Juri even though she uses the Feng Shui Engine to augment her own abilities?

2) The scene, or rather the singular event, in the anime you posted where Juri one shotted Chun Li is out of the discussion due to the vid being non-canon, but all the other feats that she did in that anime are fair game and thus can be used to show how strong she is? (I'd like to point out that there is a vast difference in saying something perifery in a non-canon ending is fair game, and something from a non-canon anime film is canon.)

3) Urien's power stems wholly from conjecture and comparison to his brother Gill, both of which have zero credible "feats" to their names, yet you see Urien's defeat as a credible win, while other characters, with actual credible feats, are seen as inferior?

Going by feats alone, Urien is nothing to Shang or Kahn. And going by feats alone, Juri is right there as well. If we are including anything from the anime, then everything from the anime is fair game, including Chun allowing herself to be distracted and getting one shotted by Juri.

Just a heads up, Shao Kahn is the most powerful character currently in the MK9 universe. And as it was stated, Shao Kahn was bounded by the tournament's rules to supress his power so that the other realms could stand a fighting chance. This is shown when Shao Kahn entered Earthrealm when he was at full power. He easily beat Raiden who easily beat Liu Kang and he beat Shao Kahn who was forced to hold back his power during the 2nd tournament.

@BloodsunX said:

Just a heads up, Shao Kahn is the most powerful character currently in the MK9 universe. And as it was stated, Shao Kahn was bounded by the tournament's rules to supress his power so that the other realms could stand a fighting chance. This is shown when Shao Kahn entered Earthrealm when he was at full power. He easily beat Raiden who easily beat Liu Kang and he beat Shao Kahn who was forced to hold back his power during the 2nd tournament.

That's not true, Shao Kahn amped himself with souls while Raiden powers were diminishing due to the merger in their final fight. Shao Kahn was shown to be able to use magic in during the Tournament which is seen when Kitana engages in a fight with a monk and refuses to kill him after defeating him which prompts Shao Kahn to kill him with a magic beam from his hand.

@nick_hero22 said:

@BloodsunX said:

Just a heads up, Shao Kahn is the most powerful character currently in the MK9 universe. And as it was stated, Shao Kahn was bounded by the tournament's rules to supress his power so that the other realms could stand a fighting chance. This is shown when Shao Kahn entered Earthrealm when he was at full power. He easily beat Raiden who easily beat Liu Kang and he beat Shao Kahn who was forced to hold back his power during the 2nd tournament.

That's not true, Shao Kahn amped himself with souls while Raiden powers were diminishing due to the merger in their final fight. Shao Kahn was shown to be able to use magic in during the Tournament which is seen when Kitana engages in a fight with a monk and refuses to kill him after defeating him which prompts Shao Kahn to kill him with a magic beam from his hand.

What evidence do you have that Raiden(an god who has infinite amount of energy) tired down, and that Shao Kahn gained the power of the Soulnado, regarding the fact that the ritual failed because the Soldiers were freed by Sub Zero?

@BloodsunX said:

@nick_hero22 said:

@BloodsunX said:

Just a heads up, Shao Kahn is the most powerful character currently in the MK9 universe. And as it was stated, Shao Kahn was bounded by the tournament's rules to supress his power so that the other realms could stand a fighting chance. This is shown when Shao Kahn entered Earthrealm when he was at full power. He easily beat Raiden who easily beat Liu Kang and he beat Shao Kahn who was forced to hold back his power during the 2nd tournament.

That's not true, Shao Kahn amped himself with souls while Raiden powers were diminishing due to the merger in their final fight. Shao Kahn was shown to be able to use magic in during the Tournament which is seen when Kitana engages in a fight with a monk and refuses to kill him after defeating him which prompts Shao Kahn to kill him with a magic beam from his hand.

What evidence do you have that Raiden(an god who has infinite amount of energy) tired down, and that Shao Kahn gained the power of the Soulnado, regarding the fact that the ritual failed because the Soldiers were freed by Sub Zero?

1. Raiden mention while in Outworld that his powers were fluctuating, when he fought Shao Kahn the merger between Outworld and Earthrealm was basically completed.

2. Shao Kahn had harvested many souls in the Earthrealm conflict which was discussed between Quan Chi and Raiden when Raiden said he would offer him the souls of the fallen Earthrealm warriors which prompts Quan Chi to laugh and state that Shao Kahn had already given him the souls of warriors who had died. And it is pretty obvious that Shao Kahn wasn't fighting at normal levels in his final fight with Raiden, Shao Kahn was almost killed by Liu Kang, so it would only make sense that he would need souls to rejuvenate himself and to perform at the level he did against Raiden.

@CadenceV2: Cool. So are you going on record as stating the MK universe is noticably inferior to the SF universe?

@Vance Astro said:

@Vaeternus said:

Concerning the post speaking of Kahn never stealing/taking souls, that is false he did but they just implemented it in a different way in MK9...also forgot to mention is Raiden pretty much protected the Earth's warriors souls(as he states in the MK3 intro) but their lives are not invulnerable, only when they died were their souls snagged by Quan-Chi(the ones who fell/died to Shang Tsung uber powered Sindel that is...before Nightwolf killed himself and Sindel)

Shao Kahn could and did take Earth's souls except some, thing is in the original MK3 arch he was seen absorbing souls...MK9 toned down a bit you'll notice. Here you'll notice Shao Kahn is clearly absorbing/taking a lot of souls on Earthrealm, but Raiden states he's protected their souls(the fighters chosen warriors of Earth Realm)

I don't believe that was ever what the argument was. The argument was that soul taking wasn't a factor in the fight between Liu Kang and SHANG TSUNG. Which is a fact.

@Vaeternus said:

The problem with the Shao Kahn/Raiden discussion is both tend to jobber often, especially Raiden...both are bound by rules of the Elder Gods, Raiden has to take a mortal form in order to fight as well as be challenged(unless he defies their rules and takes chances) Shao Kahn can't just invade a realm and take it over without the rules of Mortal Kombat or he faces judgements/penalty of the Elder Gods(as we've seen in MK9) Overall, no power ups, amps, fair play Raiden is overall more powerful then Shao Kahn. Raiden can't fight fairly in Outworld because his powers are severaly compromised and weaker then normal, thus giving Kahn an edge. Earthrealm however, Raiden would mop the floor with Kahn as he did with Shinnok years ago.

So then if you admit that Kahn jobs, then I guess using Liu Kang's win over him as a fighting skill feat should be out of the question.

That post was actually aimed at someone else ;)

I wouldn't say that though about LK, he still beat him regardless but I do think what Raiden did to LK proves Raiden is more powerful then Kahn. Kahn is NEAR his level but just not quite his level. As you saw, Raiden hardly did anything and killed LK easily...

I was just pointing out that Kahn can and has stolen tons of souls(why he doesn't do this in battle I don't know, therefore why he seems to jobber)

Raiden jobbers due to rules and he actually fears and respects the Elder Gods unlike others who face the judgment of them, should they ignore their will(Shao Kahn, Shinnok etc)

nick, actually no MK 3 wasn't retconned, when did they say this? Not true, MK9 was a re-telling of the SAME story with SOME changes, retelling does NOT equal retconned.

@Vance Astro said:

1. I don't know, I don't know what to make of Liu Kang vs. Shao Kahn...

2.You brought it up in the first place and Juri NEVER one-shotted Chun-Li. KO'ing someone during a fight isn't "one-shotting" them not to mention the variable which allowed it to happen. I only posted that video because you asked how powerful Juri is and obviously the game doesn't show that.

3.Urien and Juri are both powerful characters since they are fairly new to the Street Fighter franchise they don't have alot of feats but Shang Tsung and Shao Kahn don't have alot of credible feats either.

1) All that I can offer is that there were a lot of things going on in the MK3 story that Kahn had to contend with during the time of the invasion.

- Nightwolf was using the "power of the spirits" to protect his native lands from Kahn's magic.

- Raiden had protected the souls of Earth defenders, and was most likely slowing the merger itself by fighting Kahn on that level.

- Shinnok and Quan Chi were working though Noob and Mileena to further there own goals.

...there may be a few other things as well. Not sure.

Also, though during MK3 Kahn did take all the human souls of Earth, there is no evidence that he absorbed those souls into himself to become stronger. Kahn has been known to hold souls in a limbo state and that is a possibility here too since after his defeat humanity did return to normal. Further more, though Kahn has shown that he can manipulate souls, what he truly hungers for and is empowered by is the merging of realms; this has always been his ultimate goal since before MK1. In MK3 Kahn never achieved the power that he did in MKA or MK9 since he never got the chance to complete the merger in MK3. Kahn was attacked and defeated before then.

For the match between Liu and Kahn itself, since this is mortal kombat, their final battle was most likely along those lines. Though Kahn's magics were unrestrained during that time, he was still running an invasion (it has been shown that Kahn "protects" his minions during open combat through magic), he had been fighting Nightwolf, and probably Raiden, in order to force the realm merge, and then he had to deal with Liu and Kung in the midst of all that as well.

2) I brought up the anime, but you shot it down so I dropped it. You posted it after that. Regardless, Chun Li was one shotted in that video.

Juri attacked first with a kick, to which Chun match with her own. Chun then went on the offensive and Juri casually blocked or parried all of her attacks, even holding her and toying with her at one point. After that Chun dropped her guard, to which Juri responded with an attack (her second attack of the fight), and Chun was floored. Chun was one shotted.

I'd like to add that if she had been fighting Shang, or Kahn, or virtually any MK fighter in that fight, and she dropped her guard, Chun Li would have died.

3) New characters, underdeveloped characters, feat-less characters; regularly the vine craps on these characters, ridiculing them to high heaven, yet Urien and Juri are seemingly getting special treatment? Regardless if you like or respect the feats of Shang and Kahn or not, they do have feats that are real, feats that can be weighed, quality feats that count.

Like I said from the outset, I wouldn't say Liu Kang vs Chun Li is a mismatch, but Chun Li looses all the same.

@Vance Astro said:

1. I don't know, I don't know what to make of Liu Kang vs. Shao Kahn...

2.You brought it up in the first place and Juri NEVER one-shotted Chun-Li. KO'ing someone during a fight isn't "one-shotting" them not to mention the variable which allowed it to happen. I only posted that video because you asked how powerful Juri is and obviously the game doesn't show that.

3.Urien and Juri are both powerful characters since they are fairly new to the Street Fighter franchise they don't have alot of feats but Shang Tsung and Shao Kahn don't have alot of credible feats either.

1) All that I can offer is that there were a lot of things going on in the MK3 story that Kahn had to contend with during the time of the invasion.

- Nightwolf was using the "power of the spirits" to protect his native lands from Kahn's magic.

- Raiden had protected the souls of Earth defenders, and was most likely slowing the merger itself by fighting Kahn on that level.

- Shinnok and Quan Chi were working though Noob and Mileena to further there own goals.

...there may be a few other things as well. Not sure.

Also, though during MK3 Kahn did take all the human souls of Earth, there is no evidence that he absorbed those souls into himself to become stronger. Kahn has been known to hold souls in a limbo state and that is a possibility here too since after his defeat humanity did return to normal. Further more, though Kahn has shown that he can manipulate souls, what he truly hungers for and is empowered by is the merging of realms; this has always been his ultimate goal since before MK1. In MK3 Kahn never achieved the power that he did in MKA or MK9 since he never got the chance to complete the merger in MK3. Kahn was attacked and defeated before then.

For the match between Liu and Kahn itself, since this is mortal kombat, their final battle was most likely along those lines. Though Kahn's magics were unrestrained during that time, he was still running an invasion (it has been shown that Kahn "protects" his minions during open combat through magic), he had been fighting Nightwolf, and probably Raiden, in order to force the realm merge, and then he had to deal with Liu and Kung in the midst of all that as well.

2) I brought up the anime, but you shot it down so I dropped it. You posted it after that. Regardless, Chun Li was one shotted in that video.

Juri attacked first with a kick, to which Chun match with her own. Chun then went on the offensive and Juri casually blocked or parried all of her attacks, even holding her and toying with her at one point. After that Chun dropped her guard, to which Juri responded with an attack (her second attack of the fight), and Chun was floored. Chun was one shotted.

I'd like to add that if she had been fighting Shang, or Kahn, or virtually any MK fighter in that fight, and she dropped her guard, Chun Li would have died.

3) New characters, underdeveloped characters, feat-less characters; regularly the vine craps on these characters, ridiculing them to high heaven, yet Urien and Juri are seemingly getting special treatment? Regardless if you like or respect the feats of Shang and Kahn or not, they do have feats that are real, feats that can be weighed, quality feats that count.

Like I said from the outset, I wouldn't say Liu Kang vs Chun Li is a mismatch, but Chun Li looses all the same.

That post was actually aimed at someone else ;)