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#51 Posted by UltimateHero0406 (2171 posts) - - Show Bio

@onilordasmodeus: I definitely remember later on in part 1, Naruto fought Lee to a draw so his skills did improve quite a bit.

And after a while, even using it sparringly, Link will run out of magic. But Naruto will keep coming so he will have to use that quite a bit so we can't say it will last the whole fight. Link's options will run out fast.

And I'm not sure what kind of transformation happened to his skull but wever. But Link still doesn't have any basic durability feats that put him past Naruto.

#52 Posted by onilordasmodeus (2549 posts) - - Show Bio

@ultimatehero0406:

I don't remember that, and I looked for a second match with them and I couldn't find anything. If you could provide a link I'd be grateful. Honestly from what I remember, Lee was put up in a hospital for some time after his Garra fight and when he did fight against Kimimaru I don't think he was at 100%. Was it after that or before the Kimimaru fight?

Good point about the magic. Naruto's high chakra level definately makes a longer fight with Link a problem for Link.

I agree that Naruto's ability to take blunt force trauma at base is beyond Link's at base, but a sword or an arrow would still take him out. Even though that is the case, Naruto's durability limits are kind of sketchy since the 9-tails is such an integral part of him. I'd direct you back to the Sasuke-Naruto fight in part 1. In that fight Naruto might as well had died aleast twice in that fight but for the 9-tails. The 9-tails protected Naruto and healed him up many times over the course of that fight, in particular was once after the Chidori through his shoulder (the 9-tails healed him and gave him power), and again after that pile driver (Naruto was knocked out/dead and the kyubi revived him and gave him more power).

#53 Posted by Dextersinister (6343 posts) - - Show Bio

@sherlock said:

I said id be back with videos.

@dextersinister said:

@sherlock: Batman actually has him trumped with fighting larger groups at the same time clearing out prison wards with hundreds of convicts. Link never fights more than around 10 of those Goblins that take an hour to swing their sword.

Naruto on the other hand can challenge hundreds of ninjas all of which have magical powers and enhanced stats.

First off thats not ten by any means the first wave alone is 30-50.Even going by cannon fodder (And a good portion of them were not) thats a lot of bodies and would overwhelm a lot of comic characters.I dont recall that batman instance when was it?Im merely curious here.

Link has fought stronger enemies than Naruto before and some damned fast ones as well.Not to mention again when Naruto uses hundreds of clones they usually just stand there he get killed without doing jack.

Ghirrahim is outrageously fast as shown here.Hes also a proficient swordsman magician and teleporter with an added ability of telekinesis.The powers he has alone are credentials for him.Link beat him 3 times over the coarse of the game.Anyone wants to argue the point throw some feats out that dont have to do with the nine tails.Sorry but Narutio lost to Neji pure and simple.He only managed to jerk out a win because of the nine tails chakra.Its an inadmissible feat in relation to this battle

Actually it was capped, the rest where simply background graphics because of the wii's limitations and Batman foes utilized proper tactics and didn't simply run at him to die Even then Batman is a terrible example you would have been better picking someone like Katana, Daredevil, Deadpool, Elektra or any of the other multiple heroes who have blades and go through scores of men normally trained assasins and not useless moblins.

I will only give the initial launch which was fast but is unimpressive by Naruto standards but look again at his sword swings they aren't very good or fast.

I've addressed the Naruto clones they where incredibly effective at the start and are brutally effective against anyone but the current arc bads, funnily enough a repeat move doesn't auto-win in a powerscaling series when the current enemy is normally always stronger than the protagonist. Imagine how incredibly easy past fights would be if he had his current powers even without the nine tails.

Link doesn't scale, there is no showing him of being better than human I still have seen nothing to show that he is better than a standard swordsman and how this isn't a stomp.

#54 Edited by UltimateHero0406 (2171 posts) - - Show Bio

@onilordasmodeus: Well son of a gun, I can't find it either but I know it happened. It was after the Kimimaro fight. But until I can find it, I won't use that. Instead I'll just use this:

Some pretty good speed, reaction, agility, and clever fighting here.

And I don't see Link's arrows hitting Naruto. This video partly shows why.

#55 Posted by Reincarnated_Justice (14 posts) - - Show Bio

Isn't Naruto faster and stronger?

It's not like Link has some serious thing to damage Naruto, why is this such a big fight?

#57 Posted by Kyuujin (2 posts) - - Show Bio

Which Naruto? Because if we're talking current Naruto, than this is a TOTAL FUCKING RAPE. Current Naruto dodged the previous fastest character in his universe at POINT BLANK. In his full Bijuu State he destroys link, and in his Kyuubi Chakra state, he easily dodged anything and everything Link could ever possibly throw at him.

You guys also forget that he can use his clones to gather natural chakra for him, so he can fight Link while a clone is storing chakra and then go sage. Link is completely outclassed here.

#58 Edited by jaywray (631 posts) - - Show Bio

@onilordasmodeus: just in reply to your sage mode taking a while stuff, regardless of the fact I already stated that the op has taken sage mode out of the battle.
You surely don't think that 1 Naruto would instantly go down to Link right? regardless it'd be a minute or 2 fight, Naruto may not have any amazing speed feats or anything, but lets just say Link would definitely win regardless, why wouldn't Naruto just make 5 Shadow clones to distract link while he prepares his Sage mode and then proceeds to stomp Link into nothingness.

Regardless, as I've already said, Sage was taken out by OP so it's a non-factor.

You seem to like the idea that Link can just block any and all of Naruto's attacks, please again tell me how link would stop 100+ Kunai flying at him from the shadow clones all at ones? hell even some big ass one's thrown in for good measure, lets say, SOMEHOW, link manages to stop them all being thrown at him.
How does link stop 5 Naruto's at the same time attacking him with Kunai or Rasengans? If you dare say "Shield block" please just leave, please come up with something reasonable instead.

Facts are, Link by himself doesn't have any speed feats of note, you used a couple of cut-scenes in other posts to try and make up for that, regardless of the fact that they weren't really impressive or anything really beyond human, so I've difficulty believing that he can stop more that at most 3 Naruto's at 1 time.

Also just to tap in on this - "Example. Could 1 tailed Naruto, the one that fought Sasuke, beat anybody in Shippuden? The answer is no. Most Chunin or Jonin level fighters would take out 1 tailed Naruto, and it would take upwards of 4 tails for him to be beat the S-ranked fighters."

4 tails plus? Son please, 4-tails was difficult for Jiraiya to handle, Jiraiya, you know him right? one of the greatest Shinobi of all time, most accomplished Ninja of all time etc.

#59 Edited by SpideyPresence (1906 posts) - - Show Bio

People saying that Naruto isn't fast clearly haven't read the manga. Two words, Speed Blitz. He was moving faster than anything Link has ever shown, Pre timeskip.

#60 Edited by NeonGameWave (7951 posts) - - Show Bio

Probably Link.

#61 Edited by jaywray (631 posts) - - Show Bio
#62 Posted by NeonGameWave (7951 posts) - - Show Bio

@jaywray: If Link has the Triforce he could win but it wasn`t specified in terms of the version or equipment. Naruto can beat the weaker and lesser equipped Links but he will probably lose to the more powerfully equipped versions however since it is standard Link probably won`t have access to his more powerful gear but I think he can win with summons and strategy.

#63 Posted by jaywray (631 posts) - - Show Bio

@jaywray: If Link has the Triforce he could win but it wasn`t specified in terms of the version or equipment. Naruto can beat the weaker and lesser equipped Links but he will probably lose to the more powerfully equipped versions however since it is standard Link probably won`t have access to his more powerful gear but I think he can win with summons and strategy.

He doesn't, standard gear, eg what's in almost every game. Bow, sword, shield, boomerang, bombs.

If you're going to give him the beast stuff he gets late game then surely 9-tails should be allowed and he'd get blitzed in a random encounter, hell even Sage mode would blitz him.

#64 Posted by Simon_the_digger (3064 posts) - - Show Bio

Naruto stomps.

#65 Posted by Sherlock (7273 posts) - - Show Bio

Isn't Naruto faster and stronger?

It's not like Link has some serious thing to damage Naruto, why is this such a big fight?

Naruto is overflowing with the demon fox chakra.Even though he cant use it in this fights its still there.Link has the master sword which is majorly effective against evil characters which the nine tails is.So in reality he does have something to seriously damage Naruto

@dextersinister:Did you watch the video at all?Just try to count up the total number of the little craps in the gameplay.Being gamplay the way it gets done in the video is irrelevant.The total number of them is cannon though.No matter what kind of cannon fodder it is thats a crap ton of bodies to go through.No only that but Link has no enhanced durability here and would be finished by any good sword strike.That adds even more to the skill level needed to accomplish that.

How are you going to measure skill in fighting if there isnt some renown fighter in your universe?Its not like he can fight wolverine so we can gauge it since Wolverine doesnt exist in Zelda.Instead we go by how much in the way of cannon fodder he can take down at once,and that is in the upper hundreds lower thousands,making his skill level extremely high.

On a side note the video you posted was from Arkham City which is non cannon and inadmissible to my point.Not to mention if the thugs batman was fighting were properly skilled then they would all rush Bruce at once instead of huddling back letting him take them down one by one.Not to mention it would be so dismally obvious when they are attacking.That knife cuts both ways.

#66 Edited by Dextersinister (6343 posts) - - Show Bio

@sherlock: I mentioned how that guys swordskills are remarkably unimpressive which you ignored so you are well aware that I watched the video and most likely you did too to confirm that I was right.

Exactly, how do you measure Links fighting skills when he is featless and has only fought people with in game mechanics who have no confirmed fighting skills beyond being good in there own particular universe. Yes cannon fodder moblins against my better examples of comic book swordsmen all of who have taken on armies of trained ninja.

Arkham city is cannon within the Arkham verse and yes it is obvious when they are attacking but that's nothing on the moblins who don't seem to attack at all, knife cuts both ways and all that.

#67 Edited by onilordasmodeus (2549 posts) - - Show Bio

@jaywray said:

@onilordasmodeus:

just in reply to your sage mode taking a while stuff, regardless of the fact I already stated that the op has taken sage mode out of the battle.

You surely don't think that 1 Naruto would instantly go down to Link right? regardless it'd be a minute or 2 fight, Naruto may not have any amazing speed feats or anything, but lets just say Link would definitely win regardless, why wouldn't Naruto just make 5 Shadow clones to distract link while he prepares his Sage mode and then proceeds to stomp Link into nothingness.

Regardless, as I've already said, Sage was taken out by OP so it's a non-factor.

You seem to like the idea that Link can just block any and all of Naruto's attacks, please again tell me how link would stop 100+ Kunai flying at him from the shadow clones all at ones? hell even some big ass one's thrown in for good measure, lets say, SOMEHOW, link manages to stop them all being thrown at him.

How does link stop 5 Naruto's at the same time attacking him with Kunai or Rasengans? If you dare say "Shield block" please just leave, please come up with something reasonable instead.

Facts are, Link by himself doesn't have any speed feats of note, you used a couple of cut-scenes in other posts to try and make up for that, regardless of the fact that they weren't really impressive or anything really beyond human, so I've difficulty believing that he can stop more that at most 3 Naruto's at 1 time.

Also just to tap in on this - "

Example.

Could 1 tailed Naruto, the one that fought Sasuke, beat anybody in Shippuden?

The answer is no

.

Most Chunin or Jonin level fighters would take out 1 tailed Naruto

, and it would take upwards of 4 tails for him to be beat the S-ranked fighters."

4 tails plus? Son please, 4-tails was difficult for Jiraiya to handle, Jiraiya, you know him right? one of the greatest Shinobi of all time, most accomplished Ninja of all time etc.

I didn't see that you took Sage mode out. Nice to know.

You (basically) asked if I thought Link one-shots Naruto? Hell no, but I don't think Naruto speed blitzes Link for an easy win, and I think people who say he could are basing their opinions not on Naruto and his feats as according to the OP, but on the characters around him and their feats. In truth, Naruto gets speed blitzed regularly when not amped by SM or Kyubi chakra, all I want is for someone to produce something that backs up their claims on how/why Naruto would win instead of hiding behind the "Link's a VG character so he has no feats" argument, or other baseless claims.

It's really funny that you think I'm being unreasonable with my argument, never have I said Link wins by a land slide, or that Naruto is out classed in anyway (exactly the opposite of the case against Link). My belief is that Link can hold his own in close combat, and if the fight was long range Link has the advantage. The fact of the matter is that while Naruto can use multiple clones in combat, his clones for the most part, only serve as minor distractions while he tests his opponent or tries to keep them busy. I repeat what I said before, Link has more than enough skill to take out one-shot-able clones.

Your comment about Naruto distracting Link with clones then going Sageis ridiculously funny because it's so obvious and nobody else thought to mention it (or at least put it in the thread). I was thinking the same thing, that, along with that depending on the setting, Naruto could could make things really hard on Link. Going by how Naruto fights though (his character), with no prep or intel (random encounter) Naruto wouldn't go Sage first thing, he'd rush Link down himself first and get a feel for how he fights; second he'd throw in a few clones, and third is when he'd start thinking. When Naruto starts thinking and using outside the box strategies is when things start getting hairy for Link, before then Link can handle himself and would probably have the upper hand. Link has a deep well of strats and items that he can use, but Naruto is insanely creative when it comes to using and putting together his skills.

(Side note: the Lens of Truth could potentially help link find the right Naruto if it's in.)

How does Link stop multiple Kunai being thrown at him? Dodging would be the first thing I think of, but Link's spin attack is an area of technique that he can whip out very quickly, and so it Din's fire and Nayru's love which would just block everything.

About my example...that was my point, and you seemed to have missed it.

The point wasn't to show how powerful Naruto became later on, it was to show how weak he was back then in the examples being present for why he would "massacre" Link. The belief that Naruto's feats in part one scale in the slightest is ludicrous because his speed, skill, and durability from then really don't apply to Ship Naruto. Kakashi would thrash one tail Naruto...so would Jiraiya, Asuma, Pein, and everybody else. Part 1 Naruto's showings, regardless of how they were drawn and presented (anime style), were weak showings because they were of a kid with no real skill going up against other kids with slightly more skill. Young Link would hold his own against young Naruto (no Kyubi) as he's seen more action than him and survived greater odds.

All the kids in Part one (for the most part) were nothings in comparison to the/a "real" fighter, as all though they were all geniuses in their own right and had/have the potential to be something special, they weren't at the time.

#68 Posted by xlab3000 (3316 posts) - - Show Bio

Naruto

#69 Edited by jaywray (631 posts) - - Show Bio

@onilordasmodeus said:

I didn't see that you took Sage mode out. Nice to know.

You (basically) asked if I thought Link one-shots Naruto? Hell no, but I don't think Naruto speed blitzes Link for an easy win, and I think people who say he could are basing their opinions not on Naruto and his feats as according to the OP, but on the characters around him and their feats. In truth, Naruto gets speed blitzed regularly when not amped by SM or Kyubi chakra, all I want is for someone to produce something that backs up their claims on how/why Naruto would win instead of hiding behind the "Link's a VG character so he has no feats" argument, or other baseless claims.

It's really funny that you think I'm being unreasonable with my argument, never have I said Link wins by a land slide, or that Naruto is out classed in anyway (exactly the opposite of the case against Link). My belief is that Link can hold his own in close combat, and if the fight was long range Link has the advantage. The fact of the matter is that while Naruto can use multiple clones in combat, his clones for the most part, only serve as minor distractions while he tests his opponent or tries to keep them busy. I repeat what I said before, Link has more than enough skill to take out one-shot-able clones.

Your comment about Naruto distracting Link with clones then going "Going by how Naruto fights though (his character), with no prep or intel (random encounter) " When Naruto starts thinking and using outside the box strategies is when things start getting hairy for Link, before then Link can handle himself and would probably have the upper hand. Link has a deep well of strats and items that he can use, but Naruto is insanely creative when it comes to using and putting together his skills.

(Side note: the Lens of Truth could potentially help link find the right Naruto if it's in.)

How does Link stop multiple Kunai being thrown at him? Dodging would be the first thing I think of, but Link's spin attack is an area of technique that he can whip out very quickly, and so it Din's fire and Nayru's love which would just block everything.

About my example...that was my point, and you seemed to have missed it.

The point wasn't to show how powerful Naruto became later on, it was to show how weak he was back then in the examples being present for why he would "massacre" Link. The belief that Naruto's feats in part one scale in the slightest is ludicrous because his speed, skill, and durability from then really don't apply to Ship Naruto. Kakashi would thrash one tail Naruto...so would Jiraiya, Asuma, Pein, and everybody else. Part 1 Naruto's showings, regardless of how they were drawn and presented (anime style), were weak showings because they were of a kid with no real skill going up against other kids with slightly more skill. Young Link would hold his own against young Naruto (no Kyubi) as he's seen more action than him and survived greater odds.

All the kids in Part one (for the most part) were nothings in comparison to the/a "real" fighter, as all though they were all geniuses in their own right and had/have the potential to be something special, they weren't at the time.


I didn't take it out lol OP did.
The only time I said Naruto would speed blitz is when he's in Sage (he can in Kyubi as well), i was just continuing our conversation by explaining how easily Naruto could buy time to go into Sage mode pretty easily.

You seem to have gotten what I said mixed up lol, I never accused you of any of that, I was simply using them as an example.

My point is, as you said link is able to take out 1 shot able clones, and that's fine, the only issue is he isn't going to insta-win against 3 of them at the same time, all of whom could easily have Rasengans, that's my issue, Link may be able to take out a shadow clone easy enough, but he isn't going to take 3 on at the same time with Rasengans and not get hit by one, and 1 Rasengan WILL finish Link.

"Sageis ridiculously funny because it's so obvious and nobody else thought to mention it (or at least put it in the thread). I was thinking the same thing, that, along with that depending on the setting, Naruto could could make things really hard on Link."

Haha, I can see why you wouldn't bring it up lol, but Sage is out of this, so it doesn't matter lol.

"Naruto wouldn't go Sage first thing, he'd rush Link down himself first and get a feel for how he fights; second he'd throw in a few clones, and third is when he'd start thinking."

Yeah, and the second part, the part with the clones, is where he dies, seriously, Naruto is reckless sure, but you cant think he's just going to run in and not think about the fact that Link is using a sword and be ready for that?

Naruto is perfectly capable of dodging link for a while and he'd be able to escape, it's only really Narutos clones that ever actually are really reckless since Part 2 really.
Ship Naruto himself is often quite cautious in fights when it's him fighting, he's not getting hit with link, he'll jump back, then the clones come out and Link is finished with a single Rasengan.

"he would "massacre" the only time I said that was when talking about Sage mode link.

" Kakashi would thrash one tail Naruto...so would Jiraiya, Asuma, Pein, and everybody else."

Are you really saying that as if it's a bad thing? they'd all mash Link like he wasn't even there as well.

You can't just say how it was shown doesn't count in part 1 because you don't like to think that it was impressive, we calculate feats based on on panel showing all the time.

I mean if you want a pretty solid Naruto feat for part one, it'd be surviving many Gaaras sand shuriken that were slicing clean through trees.
Again, this was in base.

Durability wise that's much more than Links arrows can do.
Hell part 2 Naruto could take large ground shattering attacks in base from Pain.

If Naruto is really desperate even in part one he could summon Gamabunta (that fricken huge frog) who'd simply crush Link. It'd be out of character though so we'll not use it, since he doesn't have to.

"How does Link stop multiple Kunai being thrown at him? Dodging would be the first thing I think of, but Link's spin attack is an area of technique that he can whip out very quickly, and so it Din's fire and Nayru's love which would just block everything."

Link doesn't have the speed to dodge so many thrown. Links spin attack doesn't have in-game mechanics, Naruto can attack from all angles, Links sword doesn't create a barrier or anything of the like for all over coverage.
The Hurricane spin in WW would be an excellent example of this.

To accurately debate this we'd need more specifics since Link has so much variation per game, some of links forms I wouldn't be surprised if there is a spin attack with all angle defense, but a lot don't, at least from what I've seen.

Continue this in a bit - (computer issues)

#70 Posted by onilordasmodeus (2549 posts) - - Show Bio

@jaywray:

My bad. I wasn't paying attention; though the OP hasn't been updated if that is the case anyway.

My argument has revolved around Naruto not being able to blitz at base, not in SM or Kyubi.

Regardless, I hope my argument is clearer to anyone reading.

#71 Posted by sandiego008 (3283 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm not voting one way or another, but I think the naruto people are thinking naruto clones overwhelm link. Can they? No idea not voting. But it is odd that no one even seems to mention narutos clever use of his clones. Any big person naruto tends to take out is because he uses the clones as a distraction, or poses as a clone himself (he cloned himself to be a huge throwing star at one point and his clones threw him at the villian).

The clones tend to serve more as a way to trick the opponent(slight of eye) to give naruto an open hit more than a overwhelming tool. Only other thing is naruto has a tendacy for enemies to like him and to think 3-4 steps ahead of opponent ... none of which is mentioned in any argument.

Again I am not voting basically due to lack of knowledge of Link and because the evidence shown ... link is pretty badass.

#72 Posted by isaac_clarke (5448 posts) - - Show Bio

All the clones are sporting the same stats Naruto is sporting - they just go poof when they take lethal damage and said knowledge they have of the experience goes straight to Naruto. I haven't seen anything in this thread posted that suggests Link has Pre-Shippuden Naruto stats, much-less the current counter part that can switch straight into Sage Mode - which was dodging the third Raikage pretty well.

This isn't a fair fight without ridiculously steep restrictions on Naruto, which kind of defeats the purpose of this thread.

#73 Posted by UltimateHero0406 (2171 posts) - - Show Bio
#74 Posted by Nuffs (714 posts) - - Show Bio

Composite Link for win.

#75 Edited by Sherlock (7273 posts) - - Show Bio

@sherlock: I mentioned how that guys swordskills are remarkably unimpressive which you ignored so you are well aware that I watched the video and most likely you did too to confirm that I was right.

Exactly, how do you measure Links fighting skills when he is featless and has only fought people with in game mechanics who have no confirmed fighting skills beyond being good in there own particular universe. Yes cannon fodder moblins against my better examples of comic book swordsmen all of who have taken on armies of trained ninja.

Arkham city is cannon within the Arkham verse and yes it is obvious when they are attacking but that's nothing on the moblins who don't seem to attack at all, knife cuts both ways and all that.

Yes i am in fact ignoring that because it has no basis whatsoever.You can say it forever and you still wont be right.Either i am completely misunderstanding what your talking about or you are genuinely being bias as all getout.It could be the former though i do tend to align my thought process otherwise

An army of trained ninjas in comics is 20-30.Trained ninjas in comics also put up about as much of a fight as a random idiot with a baseball bat.Where does the basis of saying that Hand Ninjas are even remotely skilled?Have they ever done anything other than get the piss knocked out of them by the good guys?Cannon fodder is cannon fodder.If you can swing a weapon and not kill yourself in the process than you qualify.

And Arkham City is not cannon in the comicverse so until you bring proof to the table from comic Batman (Or to be honest any comic character im not really picky in this instance)Tehn my point still stands.While your at it if you feel so inclined you can get some showing of the highly traine3d ninjas that kicked beat up by random kids in spandex on a regular basis

#76 Posted by onilordasmodeus (2549 posts) - - Show Bio

All the clones are sporting the same stats Naruto is sporting - they just go poof when they take lethal damage and said knowledge they have of the experience goes straight to Naruto. I haven't seen anything in this thread posted that suggests Link has Pre-Shippuden Naruto stats, much-less the current counter part that can switch straight into Sage Mode - which was dodging the third Raikage pretty well.

This isn't a fair fight without ridiculously steep restrictions on Naruto, which kind of defeats the purpose of this thread.

That's not accurate. Naruto clones get one-shotted regularly by punches to the face, or kicks to the gut, that would only serve to knock back or knock down the real Naruto. Lethal strength isn't necessary to dispatch a clone, a shield bash would do it, let alone a spin attack.

#77 Edited by jaywray (631 posts) - - Show Bio

@jaywray:

My bad. I wasn't paying attention; though the OP hasn't been updated if that is the case anyway.

My argument has revolved around Naruto not being able to blitz at base, not in SM or Kyubi.

Regardless, I hope my argument is clearer to anyone reading.

I was never confused, I knew what you meant man lol, I was just saying Naruto WOULD blitz in SM, because you and I were talking about it before and I was replying to then lol.

I edited my previous message, and addressed some of your points.
Tbh I think there may as well be a better thread where the specifics are known.

#78 Posted by isaac_clarke (5448 posts) - - Show Bio

Point out to me where anyone in this series has "regular" anything in this series in regards to physical stats, at least not the ones running a Ramen Noodle Shop. Trying to hold over situations as when he fought Neji before the time skip, over the current batch of clones that are fighting Kage level opponents is simply ridiculous. The Third Raikage was defeated by a damn clone, which was creating more clones and switching into Sage Mode during their fight.

Trying to reduce the current batch of clones to being susceptible to shield bashes or spin attacks isn't even in the ballpark of accuracy.

#79 Posted by onilordasmodeus (2549 posts) - - Show Bio

Point out to me where anyone in this series has "regular" anything in this series in regards to physical stats, at least not the ones running a Ramen Noodle Shop. Trying to hold over situations as when he fought Neji before the time skip, over the current batch of clones that are fighting Kage level opponents is simply ridiculous. The Third Raikage was defeated by a damn clone, which was creating more clones and switching into Sage Mode during their fight.

Trying to reduce the current batch of clones to being susceptible to shield bashes or spin attacks isn't even in the ballpark of accuracy.

The latest batch of clones Naruto sent out have WAY more chakra than the normal, base clones Naruto normally uses. OP says no Kyubi chakra (which was used to create the clones in question), so that feat / those clones are out. Point to another case in which a clone has taken damage, any damage, and not faded away.

#80 Edited by jaywray (631 posts) - - Show Bio

@onilordasmodeus said:

The latest batch of clones Naruto sent out have WAY more chakra than the normal, base clones Naruto normally uses. OP says no Kyubi chakra (which was used to create the clones in question), so that feat / those clones are out. Point to another case in which a clone has taken damage, any damage, and not faded away.

If you're going to go that far we basically cant use any ninjutsu for Naruto, we never really know when the Kyubi is helping him other than when he's got a cloak or some other form of physical change, that doesn't mean it doesn't happen other wise for any ninjutsu, asking for the Kyubi to be completely taking out is like saying calculate the answer to a math question without any of the numbers.

EDIT : Hmm, I may take this back, as it seems that other guy was talking about while he's in his form of Bijuu mode?

#81 Posted by isaac_clarke (5448 posts) - - Show Bio

The one that fought the Raikage ran out of juice (after throwing multiple Rasen Shurikens) and was returned to his normal state - which then went into Sage Mode and started making his own clones.

The thread's rules say no "nine-tailed forms" not "no use of the nine-tails chakra" - otherwise this debate would be a lot more tricky given Naruto has been using it for all of showings - directly or indirectly, as with that minor healing factor or the fact said chakra gradually becomes his (namely his large resource of it). Trying to argue he can't generate the chakra for clones to be even be a factor in a fight is silly. Even Kakashi's clones sporting half his resource carried on a fight with Pein without any issue or exploding and Kakashi isn't exactly known for having a large pool of Chakra to begin with.

Examples:

Neji vs Naruto Part One:

Notice how he starts with four clones, that take multiple hits from Neji before they go down?

Part Two:

Notice the clone standing up after a strike that has him bleeding quite a bit from the mouth?

Sasuke vs Naruto:

How about the lone clone with Naruto channeling a Rasengan after Sasuke blasts him with fire?

As far back as I remember, the only instant *poofs* from clones are from folks either stabbing them or them getting annihilated by an attack. Your turn, time to post some scans of clones that go down in a single hit through a punch or kick - preferably from shippuden.

#82 Posted by GhostofOnyx (656 posts) - - Show Bio
#83 Edited by Dextersinister (6343 posts) - - Show Bio

@sherlock said:

@dextersinister said:

@sherlock: I mentioned how that guys swordskills are remarkably unimpressive which you ignored so you are well aware that I watched the video and most likely you did too to confirm that I was right.

Exactly, how do you measure Links fighting skills when he is featless and has only fought people with in game mechanics who have no confirmed fighting skills beyond being good in there own particular universe. Yes cannon fodder moblins against my better examples of comic book swordsmen all of who have taken on armies of trained ninja.

Arkham city is cannon within the Arkham verse and yes it is obvious when they are attacking but that's nothing on the moblins who don't seem to attack at all, knife cuts both ways and all that.

Yes i am in fact ignoring that because it has no basis whatsoever.You can say it forever and you still wont be right.Either i am completely misunderstanding what your talking about or you are genuinely being bias as all getout.It could be the former though i do tend to align my thought process otherwise

An army of trained ninjas in comics is 20-30.Trained ninjas in comics also put up about as much of a fight as a random idiot with a baseball bat.Where does the basis of saying that Hand Ninjas are even remotely skilled?Have they ever done anything other than get the piss knocked out of them by the good guys?Cannon fodder is cannon fodder.If you can swing a weapon and not kill yourself in the process than you qualify.

And Arkham City is not cannon in the comicverse so until you bring proof to the table from comic Batman (Or to be honest any comic character im not really picky in this instance)Tehn my point still stands.While your at it if you feel so inclined you can get some showing of the highly traine3d ninjas that kicked beat up by random kids in spandex on a regular basis

I pointed out that the villain shows no swordmanship skill whatsoever, it's that simple therefore Link is still featless in terms of actual showings against a decent swordsman.

The problem here is that your saying group fights against mook ninjas aren't that great but apparently fighting Moblins who are Skywards version of the goombas is really impressive. Both aren't that great but an human swordsman or even a guy with a baseball bat is much more of a challenge than a bloody moblin grunt.

I said Batman and why would you be so against Arkham verse Batman as a video game character himself it's easier to compare and every licensed version of Batman is situated within their own universe within the DC multiverse.

So far all we have for Link is beating groups of Moblins and fighting unestablished characters in terms of combat feats. How does that possibly translate into a win against Naruto with his 600+ chapters of showings who would be capable of leveling that entire valley with the Moblins within moments?

You may think I'm bias in favour of Naruto but it's very common for people to greatly exaggerate the feats of silent protagonists despite most of it being speculation as was intended because they've projected on to the character.

#84 Edited by onilordasmodeus (2549 posts) - - Show Bio

@isaac_clarke:

The latest batch of clones came from a Naruto who was overflowing with 9-tails chakra. That one showing of him using the kyubi cloak then doing some new and incredible things cannot trump all the other showings of his clones from earlier on in the series especially since kyubi anything is banned from this fight. I get your point that dividing the 9-tails from Nartuo's is tricky (which is the crux of my argument) but I didn't make the OP so...

In any case, 9-tails chakra is a form of the 9-tails. That is what I'm going by.

I can't post vids for some reason so i can't introduce any "new" Naruto showings but I can discuss yours.

The Neji fight, the one panel that stood out is the bleeding from the mouth one. You said the clone got hit and stood back up. No. Neji's hit damaged it (not a lethal strike, not a strike that would topple Naruto), and the clone stood for a couple moment longer then went poof. In a few of the panels you've proven that a clone can take multiple hits before hitting the ground once and going poof, but still one strong hit, not enough to one shot Naruto, not a lethal strike, can still take out a clone.

In the Sasuke fight you pointed to the one clone still standing after his fire attack (which 1-shotted all of them but wouldn't have killed Naruto) but didn't mention all the clones he was fighting before that attack (which he was one shotting with punches and kicks i believe). Anyway, after the fire attack Naruto summoned another clone while the smoke cleared so he could catch Sasuke off guard.

When I get some more time and figure out how to post vids on this new format I so some examples.

#85 Posted by isaac_clarke (5448 posts) - - Show Bio

@onilordasmodeus said:

@isaac_clarke:

The latest batch of clones came from a Naruto who was overflowing with 9-tails chakra. That one showing of him using the kyubi cloak then doing some new and incredible things cannot trump all the other showings of his clones from earlier on in the series especially since kyubi anything is banned from this fight. I get your point that dividing the 9-tails from Nartuo's is tricky (which is the crux of my argument) but I didn't make the OP so...

In any case, 9-tails chakra is a form of the 9-tails. That is what I'm going by.

But that Chakra was drained after repeated Rasen Shuriken. That clone had to go into Sage Mode to continue fighting and from their had access to another resource of chakra to let him spit clones and have you. Trying to argue the only reason this clone did so well, despite using that energy, is the result of being generated by Naruto after unlocking the Kyuubi's power (which in this case is actually his power, given he stole it from the Kyuubi).

It's an additional resource, that Naruto has had access to for much of his carrier. Under the argument you're sporting Naruto is a form of the Nine-Tails given it's been adding to his power gradually simply being inside him.

I can't post vids for some reason so i can't introduce any "new" Naruto showings but I can discuss yours.

The Neji fight, the one panel that stood out is the bleeding from the mouth one. You said the clone got hit and stood back up. No. Neji's hit damaged it (not a lethal strike, not a strike that would topple Naruto), and the clone stood for a couple moment longer then went poof. In a few of the panels you've proven that a clone can take multiple hits before hitting the ground once and going poof, but still one strong hit, not enough to one shot Naruto, not a lethal strike, can still take out a clone.

He was struck Neji, was bleeding from the mouth, actually said some dialogue before letting out a grin and dispersing himself. If we ran under the same logic that just any generic bit of damage took these clones down, he wouldn't remained there past the actual attack. Instead he bleeds and even talks to Neji directly before Naruto attacked him. Generally most showings where the clones are destroyed are against attacks that aren't going to be something Naruto can tank, at least not easily without himself being in a very vulnerable position.

Its less than them being one shotted and more so them likely willingly going poof (which is an option for the clones) so Naruto could go for the Rasengan. It wouldn't make much sense that the clone dead center of the attack survives over the lot of them. After the attack? It was during the attack, namely why the Rasengan was already ready and dispersing the flames around them.

#86 Posted by Sherlock (7273 posts) - - Show Bio

I pointed out that the villain shows no swordmanship skill whatsoever, it's that simple therefore Link is still featless in terms of actual showings against a decent swordsman.


Im unfortunately not entirely sure what makes him good to your mind.He has enough stats to make him a formidable opponent.Not to mention his other abilities.if you really want me to i can post every other boss fight in the Zelda series though i tend to think youll have a reason why all of them are inferior as well.


The problem here is that your saying group fights against mook ninjas aren't that great but apparently fighting Moblins who are Skywards version of the goombas is really impressive. Both aren't that great but an human swordsman or even a guy with a baseball bat is much more of a challenge than a bloody moblin grunt.


I have no qualms about fighting mook ninjas.Difference here is that the standard cape fights 20 mook ninjas, Link fought nearly 1000 bokoblins at once.See the difference there 1000>>>>20.


I said Batman and why would you be so against Arkham verse Batman as a video game character himself it's easier to compare and every licensed version of Batman is situated within their own universe within the DC multiverse.


Thats not really relevant.By your logic because ingame feats of the bokoblins are poor then the same is true for the grunts Bats takes on.Who exactly has he fought in game that has established feats?No one has feats from the comics so by and large the Artkham verse batman has no feats either.All he has is the name batman going for him.Hes in the same boat as link by your logic

#87 Posted by SSJLozza (1528 posts) - - Show Bio

Naruto stomps. I much much prefer Link as a character though.

#88 Posted by Schmalzel (353 posts) - - Show Bio

@onilordasmodeus: If it is "midway" with no nine tails Link Destroys Naruto with Ease. This was well before sage mode and since he can't use the nine tails that limits his clones and ability to use so many. Honestly if it was with Sage mode it would be a solid battle and I think Naruto would be able to take it with prep since his battle skills have increased a ton as well, but to much favors in Links favor early on. With or without the Master Sword. He has magic, magic shield, boomer rang, bow and arrows.

#89 Edited by onilordasmodeus (2549 posts) - - Show Bio

@schmalzel:

I agree for the most part with what you said. Sage Naruto would most likely win in the end, but short of that I think Link would win.

#90 Edited by Dextersinister (6343 posts) - - Show Bio

@sherlock: Why would you post every boss fight, that is effectively a different character. Actually having displays of basic swordsmanship, reflexive showings, durability, not asking for much simply the basics but he doesn't have these.

Taking on Moblins in groups who take forever to attack, run at you and die in a sword swing is not the best example when as I've stated before his opponent could destroy that entire area, Hawkeye has showings against oncoming unkillable swordsmen, Daredevil has showings against the hundreds of the hands the difference is all their opponents went in attacking.

Actually Arkham verse Batman and his foes have feats from a series of tie in comics and detailed scenes from 2 games. Link has fan speculation based on game mechanics and enemies that don't really do much with in game scenes.

#91 Posted by xlab3000 (3316 posts) - - Show Bio
#92 Edited by Cor_Tsar (1255 posts) - - Show Bio

@xlab3000: Hey man, why'd that happen. Put alot of effort into that post. Meh, screw it, Link wins imo.

#93 Edited by Noone301994 (5570 posts) - - Show Bio

Pre-time skip Naruto would beat him

#94 Posted by Cjdavis103 (9575 posts) - - Show Bio

Naruto crushes Link in an instant Biju mode smashes mountains with ease Link not even close

#95 Edited by Cor_Tsar (1255 posts) - - Show Bio

@noone301994: No. If Naruto had Bijuu mode and sage mode, then yeah, but only because link would be restricted to standard gear. Link here wins. Naruto has no way to win.

#96 Posted by GrandSymbiote94 (11667 posts) - - Show Bio

Naruto crushes Link in an instant Biju mode smashes mountains with ease Link not even close

Have you read the OP?

#97 Posted by Cjdavis103 (9575 posts) - - Show Bio
#98 Edited by Noone301994 (5570 posts) - - Show Bio

@cor_tsar: Most Naruto characters are supersonic or hypersonic and can create clones and substitutions. As far as I know Link has average durability so I'm pretty sure Naruto could run circles around him and potentially beat him without even using chakra. If he had to he could just spam rasengans.

#99 Posted by Tohoma (1517 posts) - - Show Bio
@cor_tsar said:

@noone301994: No. If Naruto had Bijuu mode and sage mode, then yeah, but only because link would be restricted to standard gear. Link here wins. Naruto has no way to win.

How does Naruto have no way of winning.

#100 Posted by Cor_Tsar (1255 posts) - - Show Bio

@noone301994: Average durability? He essentially takes hits from giant monsters, demons, and evil reincarnate with the triforce of power. Speed wise, i've never seen anything from Naruto without the kyuubi chakra/ sage mode. Some of his enemies, some of his friends, but speed wasn't one of his attributes until the upgrades. His clones are strong, but not durable enough to take strikes from evil bane. If they assault Link from all directions, that might be Link's only problem. IC he hasn't done that in a while, and he would have to spam it, as Link could easily get rid of them.