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#1 Posted by Racob7 (5372 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm not very knowlegable on either character so I'm just going to ask who's overall stronger in a random encounter with standard gear. We will go with the versions who are about midway as far as power with no Nine Tails forms. Sorry for being so vauge.

#2 Posted by UltimateHero0406 (2167 posts) - - Show Bio

Naruto should still win.

#3 Posted by OmgOmgWtfWtf (6946 posts) - - Show Bio

Link wins.

#4 Posted by McHotcakes (438 posts) - - Show Bio

What do you consider standard gear for Link? His arsenal can vary quite a lot from game to game.

#5 Posted by Racob7 (5372 posts) - - Show Bio

@mchotcakes: I said standard gear because I don't know enough to specify.

#6 Edited by Dextersinister (5769 posts) - - Show Bio

@mchotcakes said:

What do you consider standard gear for Link? His arsenal can vary quite a lot from game to game.

Bow, a sharp sword, a shield, boomerang, bombs. Any of the classic things that are in almost every game.

Link gets horribly stomped, he is a base human with no feats.

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#7 Posted by New_World_Order (12520 posts) - - Show Bio

Naruto.

#8 Posted by Clark_EL (2459 posts) - - Show Bio
#9 Posted by onilordasmodeus (2529 posts) - - Show Bio

@mchotcakes said:

What do you consider standard gear for Link? His arsenal can vary quite a lot from game to game.

Bow, a sharp sword, a shield, boomerang, bombs. Any of the classic things that are in almost every game.

Link gets horribly stomped, he is a base human with no feats.

What? No feats?

First off Link is Hylian; a human but with a strong affinity for magic; and at base he's an expert swordsman and archer, with great endurance and strength.

Standard gear for Link is: Hylian shield, Master Sword, Bombs, Bow, Magic, Boomerag, and Hook shot

With his Hylian shield, Link would be able to push back most of Naruto's attacks easy, and his 360 spin coupled with his magic can keep any number of Naruto clones at bay. Link beats Naruto at range out right with his bow as well (which he's an excellent shot with), and his bomb and such.

The only real advantage Naruto has is in numbers (which Link can defend against), and if he can go Sage, then strength too.

With the True Master Sword, Link should even be able to reflect/match a Rasengan/Rasenshuriken.

IDK who'd win as it is laid out in the OP, they seem fairly even, but I'm leaning towards Link...better defense.

#10 Posted by jaywray (631 posts) - - Show Bio

What? No feats?

First off Link is Hylian; a human but with a strong affinity for magic; and at base he's an expert swordsman and archer, with great endurance and strength.

Standard gear for Link is: Hylian shield, Master Sword, Bombs, Bow, Magic, Boomerag, and Hook shot

With his Hylian shield, Link would be able to push back most of Naruto's attacks easy, and his 360 spin coupled with his magic can keep any number of Naruto clones at bay. Link beats Naruto at range out right with his bow as well (which he's an excellent shot with), and his bomb and such.

The only real advantage Naruto has is in numbers (which Link can defend against), and if he can go Sage, then strength too.

With the True Master Sword, Link should even be able to reflect/match a Rasengan/Rasenshuriken.

IDK who'd win as it is laid out in the OP, they seem fairly even, but I'm leaning towards Link...better defense.

Yes, no feats.
Magic doesn't matter when he isn't 1/10th the speed of Naruto.
It says no 9 tails, not no sage, so sage stomps. Hard.

#11 Edited by onilordasmodeus (2529 posts) - - Show Bio

@jaywray:

How fast is Naruto with no Kyubi cloak or Sage mode?

The OP says random encounter and Naruto doesn't walk around in Sage mode.

#12 Posted by jaywray (631 posts) - - Show Bio

@jaywray:

How fast is Naruto with no Kyubi cloak or Sage mode?

No Sage, I can't personally remember any impressive speed showings from Naruto, despite recently watching the entire series.

I'm pretty sure via power scaling he'd have something, but I don't think it'd be anything ridiculously impressive.

#13 Edited by onilordasmodeus (2529 posts) - - Show Bio

@jaywray said:

@onilordasmodeus said:

@jaywray:

How fast is Naruto with no Kyubi cloak or Sage mode?

No Sage, I can't personally remember any impressive speed showings from Naruto, despite recently watching the entire series.

I'm pretty sure via power scaling he'd have something, but I don't think it'd be anything ridiculously impressive.

Exactly. Naruto has no clear speed advantage unless he's given time to gather the chakra to go sage mode (if that is even allowed in this fight). Either way, if Naruto gets sage mode, Link should get a spell or 2; Dins fire (area of affect fire shield), Farore's wind (teleportation), Naru's love (invinciblity). Link's magic can even the playing field even if we loosen the reigns on their abilities a bit.

Like I said, they are pretty even.

#14 Posted by Racob7 (5372 posts) - - Show Bio
#15 Edited by jaywray (631 posts) - - Show Bio

@jaywray said:

@onilordasmodeus said:

@jaywray:

How fast is Naruto with no Kyubi cloak or Sage mode?

No Sage, I can't personally remember any impressive speed showings from Naruto, despite recently watching the entire series.

I'm pretty sure via power scaling he'd have something, but I don't think it'd be anything ridiculously impressive.

Exactly. Naruto has no clear speed advantage unless he's given time to gather the chakra to go sage mode (if that is even allowed in this fight). Either way, if Naruto gets sage mode, Link should get a spell or 2; Dins fire (area of affect fire shield), Farore's wind (teleportation), Naru's love (invinciblity). Link's magic can even the playing field even if we loosen the reigns on their abilities a bit.

Like I said, they are pretty even.

He doesn't need Chakra to go Sage mode, he just needs nature, so I guess that'd be dependant on the location.
Either way it just got taken out by the OP.

I'm still saying Naruto takes this, he kept up with Neji who has some considerable speed feats (He's considered speed of sound pretimeskip, although I'm not sure which feat people use for that.)

#16 Edited by Dextersinister (5769 posts) - - Show Bio

@onilordasmodeus said:
@dextersinister said:

@mchotcakes said:

What do you consider standard gear for Link? His arsenal can vary quite a lot from game to game.

Bow, a sharp sword, a shield, boomerang, bombs. Any of the classic things that are in almost every game.

Link gets horribly stomped, he is a base human with no feats.

What? No feats?

First off Link is Hylian; a human but with a strong affinity for magic; and at base he's an expert swordsman and archer, with great endurance and strength.

Standard gear for Link is: Hylian shield, Master Sword, Bombs, Bow, Magic, Boomerag, and Hook shot

With his Hylian shield, Link would be able to push back most of Naruto's attacks easy, and his 360 spin coupled with his magic can keep any number of Naruto clones at bay. Link beats Naruto at range out right with his bow as well (which he's an excellent shot with), and his bomb and such.

The only real advantage Naruto has is in numbers (which Link can defend against), and if he can go Sage, then strength too.

With the True Master Sword, Link should even be able to reflect/match a Rasengan/Rasenshuriken.

IDK who'd win as it is laid out in the OP, they seem fairly even, but I'm leaning towards Link...better defense.

Those are just listed abilities he goes up against bosses or monsters that move in a predictable manner and his actions are dictated purely by game mechanics meaning he has no feats on how he can react.

Naruto has high end reflex feats so could simply punch out Link.

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#17 Posted by UltimateHero0406 (2167 posts) - - Show Bio

Not seeing how anything in Link's normal arsenal saves him from 50 clones coming at him.

#18 Posted by onilordasmodeus (2529 posts) - - Show Bio

@jaywray:

You are right. My point though was that Naruto has to stay still for some time in order to go Sage.

Link with a bow = standing still a bad idea.

@dextersinister:

There are many quick and agile fighters in the Zelda series that Link has been able to react to and defeat. There are many fast spells and projectiles that are in the Zelda series that Link has reacted too / reflect, and overcome.

Regardless of whether you, or I, or anyone else is playing Ocarina of Time, it was "Link" that defeated Ghoma; and Link who defeated Volvagia. It was Link's skill and fighting ability that defeated Ganon. The story is what it is, and the story says that Link, with the Triforce of courage and all the other skills and abilities he amassed, overcame many great obstacles and defeated many powerful and skilled foes. Those are feats.

Players may dictate the small details (which direction Link swung his sword), but the broad strokes are what count (Link defeated Ganon).

Downplaying the bosses and monsters by saying they are "predictable" (thus acknowledging game-play as a viable method of judging the characters and how they fight/move) and then in the same sentence saying that Link has no feats because of everything he does is game-play and thus inadmissible (thus discounting game-play as a viable method for anything) doesn't fly. You might as well have said that video-game vs threads are inadmissible, and if you feel that way, you should just not comment.

Not seeing how anything in Link's normal arsenal saves him from 50 clones coming at him.

Links spin attack is one way...

Din's fire is another...

#19 Posted by Dextersinister (5769 posts) - - Show Bio

@jaywray:

You are right. My point though was that Naruto has to stay still for some time in order to go Sage.

Link with a bow = standing still a bad idea.

@dextersinister:

There are many quick and agile fighters in the Zelda series that Link has been able to react to and defeat. There are many fast spells and projectiles that are in the Zelda series that Link has reacted too / reflect, and overcome.

Regardless of whether you, or I, or anyone else is playing Ocarina of Time, it was "Link" that defeated Ghoma; and Link who defeated Volvagia. It was Link's skill and fighting ability that defeated Ganon. The story is what it is, and the story says that Link, with the Triforce of courage and all the other skills and abilities he amassed, overcame many great obstacles and defeated many powerful and skilled foes. Those are feats.

Players may dictate the small details (which direction Link swung his sword), but the broad strokes are what count (Link defeated Ganon).

Downplaying the bosses and monsters by saying they are "predictable" (thus acknowledging game-play as a viable method of judging the characters and how they fight/move) and then in the same sentence saying that Link has no feats because of everything he does is game-play and thus inadmissible (thus discounting game-play as a viable method for anything) doesn't fly. You might as well have said that video-game vs threads are inadmissible, and if you feel that way, you should just not comment.

@ultimatehero0406 said:

Not seeing how anything in Link's normal arsenal saves him from 50 clones coming at him.

Links spin attack is one way...

Din's fire is another...

Video game characters are much harder to debate for especially ones with limited cutscenes such as Link. In game wins against bosses that move mechanically is little better than backstory but Naruto's wins against established characters who use attacks that we can picture with depictions of in world consequences and reactions, these are much more reliable feats than defeating a boss that moves slow enough for a player to beat while controlling the character.

Those cut scenes from brawl are some of his best movement feats but are still unimpressive against a normal comic book character let alone one with enhanced reflexes.

He did defeat Ganon yes we assume by gutting him with the magical sword that could hurt him but even if Link had a sword that cut cut through anything he simply doesn't have any reaction feats worth a damn.

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#20 Posted by onilordasmodeus (2529 posts) - - Show Bio

@onilordasmodeus said:

@jaywray:

You are right. My point though was that Naruto has to stay still for some time in order to go Sage.

Link with a bow = standing still a bad idea.

@dextersinister:

There are many quick and agile fighters in the Zelda series that Link has been able to react to and defeat. There are many fast spells and projectiles that are in the Zelda series that Link has reacted too / reflect, and overcome.

Regardless of whether you, or I, or anyone else is playing Ocarina of Time, it was "Link" that defeated Ghoma; and Link who defeated Volvagia. It was Link's skill and fighting ability that defeated Ganon. The story is what it is, and the story says that Link, with the Triforce of courage and all the other skills and abilities he amassed, overcame many great obstacles and defeated many powerful and skilled foes. Those are feats.

Players may dictate the small details (which direction Link swung his sword), but the broad strokes are what count (Link defeated Ganon).

Downplaying the bosses and monsters by saying they are "predictable" (thus acknowledging game-play as a viable method of judging the characters and how they fight/move) and then in the same sentence saying that Link has no feats because of everything he does is game-play and thus inadmissible (thus discounting game-play as a viable method for anything) doesn't fly. You might as well have said that video-game vs threads are inadmissible, and if you feel that way, you should just not comment.

@ultimatehero0406 said:

Not seeing how anything in Link's normal arsenal saves him from 50 clones coming at him.

Links spin attack is one way...

Din's fire is another...

Video game characters are much harder to debate for especially ones with limited cutscenes such as Link. In game wins against bosses that move mechanically is little better than backstory but Naruto's wins against established characters who use attacks that we can picture with depictions of in world consequences and reactions, these are much more reliable feats than defeating a boss that moves slow enough for a player to beat while controlling the character.

Those cut scenes from brawl are some of his best movement feats but are still unimpressive against a normal comic book character let alone one with enhanced reflexes.

He did defeat Ganon yes we assume by gutting him with the magical sword that could hurt him but even if Link had a sword that cut cut through anything he simply doesn't have any reaction feats worth a damn.

Very true...but that isn't what you did. You discounted everything in said game and said it was inadmissible. Though it may be harder to debate (or envision), it is very much possible.

What is a "normal comic book character"? Anyway, base Naruto, what are his "more-than-human" speed showings? Strength showings? Naruto only has "enhanced reflexes" in Sage mode" and beyond, and like I said, if Naruto gets SM then Link should get farore's wind. Also, like I said before, how is he going to get into sage mode in the first place when Link can attack him at range with extreme ease?

We don't assume Link beat Ganon by any means. There are many cutscenes of Link stabbing him in the face or gut in many Zelda game endings, and Ganon is a very fomidable fighter great power, range, and versatility.

Someone pointed out that Naruto beat Neji and said that Neji was the "speed of sound." That win isn't applicable to this fight. The only reason Naruto won that fight was because the kyubi's chakra helped him out since Naruto couldn't keep up with Neji, which is banned from this fight off top. Regardless, Neji underestimated Naruto, and because of it Naruto was able to get him by surprise, that is how and why he won that fight.

#21 Posted by Equonox (964 posts) - - Show Bio

Naruto crushes - Shadowclone Jutsu alone would overwhelm the crap out of Link...

#22 Edited by Dextersinister (5769 posts) - - Show Bio

@onilordasmodeus: If you look at some of the more popular video game character threads you will see that most of their feats are taken from scenes, strength feats are acceptable from game mechanics but durability is highly debatable. Link even has the added weakness of only having the feats of one incarnation.

Link beating Ganon is a feat but it isn't worth very much he is the big bad of that universe but he too has no real feats of speeds.

I would not say that Neji moves at the speed of sound or at least not then but Naruto's base Chakra is higher than it was when he was a child with the 3 tails form and he is far more skilled remember you are debating against a powerscaling character who has feats of being able to casually leap up cliffs, outmaneuver people with enhanced reflexes via chakra and stop multiple projectiles from hitting other people. Even with a generous amount of positive speculation you would be hard pressed to justify how a character who is as enhanced as a main character in a Shonen series couldn't dance around Link.

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#23 Posted by Sherlock (7240 posts) - - Show Bio

There is a lot falsehoods being played up here

.First of all Link has plenty of feats to fall back on.A huge portion of the bosses in some of the more recent zelda games have super strength and speed.When I'm not on my phone ill give some examples.

Link has also taken on an entire army before (The army was in the upper hundreds and likely getting close to a thousand) Complete with archers and kamikaze bombers.That is by no means a low end feat.Hell there aren't many comic characters that can boast doing something like that.How about we put batman up against 1000 random street thugs with sticks.How do you think that is going to end?

Also brought up was the multiple shadow clone jutsu.As already stated link can take on multiple opponents without much issue.Not to mention Narutos track record using sheer numbers.There aren't many instances (if any) where making an army of clones has really worked in the past is there?Fact is his enemies usually take down every clone he makes with little to no trouble at all

#24 Edited by Dextersinister (5769 posts) - - Show Bio

@sherlock: Batman actually has him trumped with fighting larger groups at the same time clearing out prison wards with hundreds of convicts. Link never fights more than around 10 of those Goblins that take an hour to swing their sword.

Naruto on the other hand can challenge hundreds of ninjas all of which have magical powers and enhanced stats.

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#25 Posted by onilordasmodeus (2529 posts) - - Show Bio

@onilordasmodeus: If you look at some of the more popular video game character threads you will see that most of their feats are taken from scenes, strength feats are acceptable from game mechanics but durability is highly debatable. Link even has the added weakness of only having the feats of one incarnation.

Link beating Ganon is a feat but it isn't worth very much he is the big bad of that universe but he too has no real feats of speeds.

I would not say that Neji moves at the speed of sound or at least not then but Naruto's base Chakra is higher than it was when he was a child with the 3 tails form and he is far more skilled remember you are debating against a powerscaling character who has feats of being able to casually leap up cliffs, outmaneuver people with enhanced reflexes via chakra and stop multiple projectiles from hitting other people. Even with a generous amount of positive speculation you would be hard pressed to justify how a character who is as enhanced as a main character in a Shonen series couldn't dance around Link.

Taking VG character feats soley from cutscenes handicaps the character. Within reason gameplay can be looked at as a basis of what a character can do as in most instances gameplay feats are back by cutscenes and lore. The only time GP can't be used in when i goes against the world's/story's logic (ex - a character surviving a mortal wound they shouldn't be able to), and none of the Zelda gameplay does that (except may Link walking on lava). Again, you're writting off canon facts thus discounting them.

In terms of speed, Ganondorf's magical bolts are very fast, and in his beast mode his physical speed has been shown to be pretty quick. Ganon has also employed teleportation on many an occasion, coupled with various other abilites, and his combat prowess has been established many times over in the series.

Neji doesn't move the speed of sound. Neji's taijutsu strikes are indeed very quick in cqc, so quick that Naruto couldn't keep up, but that say nothing other than he's really fast.

Running up inclined surfaces and walking on water, while superhuman in the real world, is easily done by everyone in the Naruto-verse who has trained to do so (even Rock Lee). Simply having chakra and knowing how to use it doesn't make Naruto super-human any more than having the Triforce and magic does for Link.

Anyway, most of Naruto's wins in the series come from prep and knowing the opponent. I am a HUGE Naruto fan, but i know and realize that I'm watching an anime (exageration much?). Naruto characters a human (established from the beginning); trained humans. Their reflexes are human as is their durability, speed, and strength. There are ninja who learn to push themselves beyond human limitations by the use of chakra techniques or natural bloodline gifts (ex - Sage mode, the Jinchuuriki chakra, the Kage techniques, Blood limits, S-ranked ninja, etc), but Naruto at base isn't in that category in this thread. In a way it is next to imposible to strip Naruto completely of his Kyubi chakra (it gives him an inherent healing factor), but still Naruto without Sage mode or any level Kyubi cloak still isn't super-human.

Another thing, by saying that Naruto is a "power-scaling" character since he's gotten older and stronger through the series, but discounting the progression Link has had through out his various adventures, you are AGAIN limiting Link as a character. Regardless of if you want to derectly equate Link's "hearts" to his durability and stamina, through his adventures he has/does get stronger, more durable, and more skillful as the story progresses, it's just that the player get to share in this progression in a way one could never do in a Naruto manga or anime. Though Link's progression is soley gameplay, it provides a clear gauge of how much he as a character grows.

...Then there's the idea that Link is just the embodiment of a continuously reincarnated hero's spirit, which would imply his has the experience of multiple lifetimes to pull from, but i won't go there.

#26 Edited by Shikarenji (1688 posts) - - Show Bio

Link

#27 Posted by Dextersinister (5769 posts) - - Show Bio

@onilordasmodeus: As I agreed that some feats can be taken from gameplay but Links feats of speed are not one of them. There needs to be something to compare with and those are normally cutscenes or real life examples for instance a character dodging bullets in game would be a bullet dodger but putting your shield up to block energy balls from bosses or simply walking out of their path is not comparable.

I agreed that I don't believe that Neji could run at the speed of sound at least not then but that was an impressive display and Neji was known for being superior to Rock Lee who could move faster than Sasuke could visually follow and that's when Naruto was significantly weaker.

Chakra is an entire advantage of the Naruto verse the same way chi is the advantage of dragonball verse and the Godwave is what allows DC to defy physics. Chakra grants superhuman agility leaping up tall buildings to durability, surviving being smashed into a cliff face. Naruto at base is from a clan that is known for being more durable, healing faster, longer lived and having a base amount of Chakra that dwarfs your typical ninjas, it was higher than Kakashis from the start.

The problem with Link is that Zelda games have always been story lite so Links abilities are heavily steeped in fan speculation. Even if we where to give him legendary sword skills by DC standards and he could dodge gunfire like Batman by predicting where his opponents would fire he still doesn't have any decent way to go beyond being a standard human like those in the Naruto verse who are amped with chakra.

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#28 Edited by Vaeternus (9410 posts) - - Show Bio

Link imo, plus isn't the triforce in Zelda Universe like the ultimate power?

Given what the games have said what he's capable of, I'm going Link here. I know some folks complain "video game characters are vague, unlike comics etc" but of course, they don't have unlimited time like comics do to write 30 page story, but only a few hours time per game...

#29 Posted by UltimateHero0406 (2167 posts) - - Show Bio

@jaywray:

You are right. My point though was that Naruto has to stay still for some time in order to go Sage.

Link with a bow = standing still a bad idea.

@dextersinister:

There are many quick and agile fighters in the Zelda series that Link has been able to react to and defeat. There are many fast spells and projectiles that are in the Zelda series that Link has reacted too / reflect, and overcome.

Regardless of whether you, or I, or anyone else is playing Ocarina of Time, it was "Link" that defeated Ghoma; and Link who defeated Volvagia. It was Link's skill and fighting ability that defeated Ganon. The story is what it is, and the story says that Link, with the Triforce of courage and all the other skills and abilities he amassed, overcame many great obstacles and defeated many powerful and skilled foes. Those are feats.

Players may dictate the small details (which direction Link swung his sword), but the broad strokes are what count (Link defeated Ganon).

Downplaying the bosses and monsters by saying they are "predictable" (thus acknowledging game-play as a viable method of judging the characters and how they fight/move) and then in the same sentence saying that Link has no feats because of everything he does is game-play and thus inadmissible (thus discounting game-play as a viable method for anything) doesn't fly. You might as well have said that video-game vs threads are inadmissible, and if you feel that way, you should just not comment.

@ultimatehero0406 said:

Not seeing how anything in Link's normal arsenal saves him from 50 clones coming at him.

Links spin attack is one way...

Din's fire is another...

Neither of those will save him. They aren't all just going to run into his sword. Plus Naruto is faster and has more moves. If all of those clones come at him, Link will get overwhelmed. These aren't stupid moblins. They are thinking, fast, strong and tricky. Anymore than 5 is way more than Link can handle. Nevermind more than 20.

#30 Posted by onilordasmodeus (2529 posts) - - Show Bio

@dextersinister:

You are saying that Link's speed isn't enough to keep up with Naruto...I ask again, when and where has Naruto shown any overwhelming speed at base?

Link isn't slow. Nobody said he could dodge bullets, but we all know he can dodge, parry, and block sword strikes, energy blasts, arrow shots, and much more. Now, what has Naruto done that would say "Link has no counter for this..." because nothing has been shown yet, and I say that as soon as Naruto pauses to go Sage mode he catches an arrow in the chest.

@ultimatehero0406:

"They aren't all just going to run into his sword" just like Link isn't going to stand there at let them hit him. Naruto is faster? How? At base when has Naruto done anything speed wise? Naruto, really, is just now really coming into his own in the series and showing any real skill. Throughout the series up through shippuden, Naruto has succeeded by getting lucky, his opponent underestimating him, his friends jumping in to help, and/or having an abundance of intel and prep on who he is fighting.

Naruto's fight against Pein was his true coming party, and for that fight he came out with Sage Mode, had 2 other Sage Mode clones waiting in the wind, and had the 9-tails in his corner. Don't get me wrong I love Naruto, but Link isn't some random dude walking into the arena for his first fight ever.

#31 Posted by Dextersinister (5769 posts) - - Show Bio

@onilordasmodeus: 99% of fictional protagonists who wield a sword can dodge, parry and block they are basic maneavers but he has no actual showings of doing anything remotely impressive. Master swordsman is a throwaway title given to a mook that someone like Katana would go through like paper.

When Naruto goes against dog guy he has impressive feats of speed and agility, against Neji he has feats of speed and agility, Naruto vs Sasuke all of these when he was a child and had much less power.

Of course Naruto is behind the current arc villain what with some of the main villains, how rubbish would it be if he got his next upgrade early and was always a step ahead of them but what puts Link ahead of any of these characters? nothing.

Link isn't some random dude in his universe he is the adventurer that takes down giant monsters in the same vein as adventure movies based on Greek mythology but he is completely outclassed in a world where people cause tsunami's with hand gestures and shatter things from boulders to mountains depending on how much spiritual energy they can channel and Naruto has obscene amounts.

People project more on to game characters so they often get a lot more credit than they deserve.

Below the most skilled version of Link.

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#32 Edited by onilordasmodeus (2529 posts) - - Show Bio

@dextersinister:

Lol! I mean seriously...are you ever going to make a real argument? Tsunamis, boulder and mountan busting, blah, blah, blah.

When has Naruto done any of these things?

You might as well conceed since you have nothing to add to this debate rather than downplaying Link and up-playing Naruto by way of other character's feats and abilities.

#33 Edited by Dextersinister (5769 posts) - - Show Bio

@onilordasmodeus:Way to be dismissive and ignore points. I gave a list of characters that Naruto has beaten all of who have established feats when he was much weaker but I guess it was easier for you to ignore that.

Naruto has been capable of cratering the ground since the start of Shippuden and wiping out tree lines, leaping up cliffs, have one clone with the strength to support the weight of dozens of others and that's when his energy is divided and an alomost tireless amount of stamina.

Have you got anything for Link beyond fanboyism?

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#34 Posted by Racob7 (5372 posts) - - Show Bio

@dextersinister: His gauntlets let him lift enormous stones. They are not used in combat but I see no evidence that Naruto has ever used strength like that in combat either even if he has it.

#35 Edited by Shikarenji (1688 posts) - - Show Bio
#36 Edited by UltimateHero0406 (2167 posts) - - Show Bio

@onilordasmodeus: Well there is the fact that Naruto as well as even the basic ninja can run and jump through trees at high speed for long periods of time. Something Link has never shown the ability to do in any of his incarnations. Naruto's base stats are on a whole other level than Link. Even kid Naruto could jump from the ground up into trees in 1-2 seconds with ease. And an even younger Naruto could sprint up and down mountain trail in a short amount if time multiple times without rest. Hell, in the very first episode, he was jumping around crazy fast and outpacing 2 Chunin somehow. And then, he can go from the Leaf village to the Sand village on foot in a day. Going from a forest environment to a desert environment is quite the distance. And then, he's jumped out of the way of a giant fire ball jutsu. Naruto easily has speed and stamina over Link.

And then, like I said, Naruto's versatility outclasses Links. Naruto can get very tricky with his clones and spring Link when he thinks he is safe like with Neji. And then, like I said, Link is not holding off a barrage of Naruto's. Remember that the people who held off Naruto's clones were extremely powerful. Sasuke was a combat/h2h/speed/skill dynamo with the sharingan and Kimimaro, well, if you've seen him you know. And all the times that Naruto mobbed were in part 1 when he had no h2h. He actually has some in Shippuden, especially by the Pain arc.

And what is Link gonna do when Naruto comes at him with 1-5 rasengans? Block it with his shield? Nope. It will send him and his shield flying.

And rasen shuriken? Link's body turns to ground beef.

And then, Naruto also has durability over Link as well. I'm not saying that Link is a lightweight. I know how much punishment he takes per game. But in part 1, Naruto took a head first pile driver off a cliff. His head should have exploded like a watermelon but he was still alive. His first rasengan violently exploded in his face and sent him flying maybe a dozen yards. But he survived. And then he rode the raging Gamabunta for hours until he passed out.

All of these things happened 3 years before the Naruto we are talking about so his endurance and stuff should be much higher.

I'm not saying that Link is weak or slow or "just human". I'm saying that all of the actual stats I've been able to compile from Link just don't quite add up to Naruto's.

#37 Posted by onilordasmodeus (2529 posts) - - Show Bio

@dextersinister: Again, Lol!

Me a Link/Zelda fanboy? Hardly. While I have yet to play any handheld Zelda game, or any console Zelda game other than OoT, WW, or TP, I've seen every Naruto / Shippuden episode, and so I know for a fact that you are looking at Naruto through rose tinted glasses.

In your previous post you didn't say or show anything worth noting which is why I didn't even acknowledge it. The highest end feats you were refering to all involved Kyubi chakra (which is barred form this thread), and in base Naruto hasn't shown the level of power and speed you are trying to pass off for him. As the representing force for Naruto you should know this.

The best case that can be made for Naruto (IMO) is that with a Rasengan he can do hella damage to Link, and that if he got into Sage mode he'd most likely win. Depending on the setting I can see Sage mode happening but most likely not as Link's bow controls this match. As soon as Naruto stays still he's dead via head shot. But as I said in previous posts already, if Naruto get Sage the Link should get some of his higher end magic to match.

On the clone topic, I'll add that the only time a Naruto clone has EVER done anything worth noting is when one of them beat the 3rd Raikage...but that was when the real naruto was using the kyubi cloak so it's chakra was insanely augmented. Bombs, arrows, and magic are all viable options for Link vs one-shot-able clone.

Stop deflecting and start producing. If you think Naruto wins, show why and stop posting crap...but remember the stipulations...

#38 Posted by Dextersinister (5769 posts) - - Show Bio

@racob7: I mentioned earlier that strength feats via game mechanics are fine but strength has never been the issue. There's nothing to show that Link could stop a single Naruto from simply knocking him out given his vastly superior showings of speed and agility let alone an army of clones.

I haven't even needed to resort to other skills or enhancements.

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#39 Posted by Shikarenji (1688 posts) - - Show Bio

@ultimatehero0406: Naruto survived that fall because of kyuubi . he can't use kyuubi in this fight . as for the five rasengans nayru's love makes him impervious to damage by way of protective barrier . he could use din's fire to hold him back or farore's wind to teleport to another preset point . that's just a few possibilities

#40 Edited by UltimateHero0406 (2167 posts) - - Show Bio

@shikarenji: I know but his head should have exploded since he wasn't using the cloak yet. Yeah, the chakra lets him heal faster and such but that fall should have killed him instantly.

And the power bracelets only increase lifting power. Not striking power.

And like I said, even those won't save Link for long. Between Naruto's large numbers and ninja trickery, Link won't be able to aviod it all.

#41 Posted by Shikarenji (1688 posts) - - Show Bio

@shikarenji: I know but his head should have exploded since he wasn't using the cloak yet. Yeah, the chakra lets him heal faster and such but that fall should have killed him instantly.

And the power bracelets only increase lifting power. Not striking power.

There is really nothing to suggest he had such durability , i always counted it as PIS or somehow kyuubi saved him but i digress . the 3 spells would help link immensely in this fight and there is nothing to suggest that the gauntlets only increase lifting. "You found the Golden Gauntlets! You can feel even more power coursing through your arms! Grab with (A) and lift stuff up!" text from game suggests it increases power . not that it really matters . and link falls off mountains all the time and takes very minimal damage

#42 Posted by UltimateHero0406 (2167 posts) - - Show Bio

@shikarenji: I don't really see it as PIS. I think they established Naruto's durability before hand in the series.

And if that was true, he should have one shotted every enemy he had from that point on. But, it still took multiple hits to kill enemies. Even in Wind Waker, it is the same. The power bracelets only let you pick up heavy objects. If it really increased all around power, then both Links should have sliced every enemy in half like butter.

And if your talking about when the player messes up and dies and you respawn, I don't think that counts. Things like that are game mechanics based on the player's choices and don't effect the plot or else, Link would be able to swim in lava.

#43 Edited by onilordasmodeus (2529 posts) - - Show Bio

@ultimatehero0406:

FINALLY! Someone comes with a real argument.

Movement in the Naruto series is highly suspect as sometimes they are jumping through trees effortlessly (basically flying), and in others they are running on trails/the ground and moving a more normal pace. What really matters though is combat, and base Naruto doesn't show speed like that when fighting. More times than not naruto is seen charge an opponent at full speed and never has he been shown to blitz people when not in one of his higher modes.

Naruto is versatile and very tricky no doubt, but it would be a stretch to say he is more versatile than Link. The fight with Neji is a bad example to use for Naruto as Neji won that fight outright. It was only because of the fact that Naruto is a Jinchuuriki, that the kyubi's chakra help him, that he was able to get a second wind. There is also something to be said about the fact that Neji underestimated Naruto at every turn in that fight.

Though I don't doubt Narut'so ability to dodge an arrow or a sword strike, an arrow from Link is different that a kunai thrown from randoms, just a take a punch in a fight is not the same a getting slashed with the MS. In terms of combat versatility, Link beats Naruto in range off top, he rivals him in the mid range, and up close Link can hold his own. Naruto's only chance is to get in close and overwhelm, which is possible, but that tactic has rarely if ever worked for naruto in the past. 1v1, or him with only 1 or 2 clones is where he shines.

5 Rasengans? A rasenshuriken? A magically charged spin attack, a full powered skyward strike, Din's fire, Nayru's love, or even multiple bomb would be a viable move against those attacks.

Even durability is suspect in the Naruto series, especially when it comes to Naruto himself. What is consistent is that Naruto can take more punishment than any other character pound for pound. Me personally, I'd write of Naruto being pile-drived into a mountain on him being completely consumed (or at least partially consumed in a chakra cloak) by the 9-tailes' influence at the time, but hey, if we wanna count it, Link has been knock off of and/or jumped off of high ledges with minimal damage as well.

#44 Edited by UltimateHero0406 (2167 posts) - - Show Bio

@onilordasmodeus: Thank you. I never make claims unless I can back them up.

Now, as for the speed, while he hasn't blitzed, I still believe that his movement speed has some carry over into his combat speed. Plus he could fight Lee to a draw in part 1 iirc who was still very fast in close combat.

And I used the Neji example on purpose. The actual fight wasn't my point. It was that nasty little trick he pulled at the end. Almost no one could have seen that coming. And then he used a similar trick on Kiba and even took into account and fooled his heightened senses. He came up with those two plans in the heat of battle on the spot. He is very smart when using his clones. So you stated my exact point. Neji had Naruto beat in almost every aspect. But Naruto still won due to that trick he pulled which required digging a tunnel with his bare hands in minutes somehow. And this Naruto would be able to make an even more devastating attack. Iirc, in his fight with Kakuzu, or someone, he attacked with clones only to distract from the rasengan he was launching from elsewhere. If Link gets caught even once, he won't shake it off so easily.

And doesn't Nayru's Love require magic power and or last for a second or two. I don't see how he will last an entire fight and block everything with a few seconds of protection from that or a spin which can't be used without full health. And the Skyward strike isn't all that devastating. Not the ones I did anyway.

Also, Naruto's kunai/shuriken should be better in battle. Not only are they quicker to use than arrows but Naruto has great accuracy. In part 1, he could knock other kunai out of the air with his.

And he there was no cloak. Only the chakra. The argument can be made that his healing factor helped with the fall but he still took a pile driver off the cliff to the head. It should have killed him before the healing took effect but it didn't. And I believe Link falling off mountains is a game mechanic. He also fall into lava and bottomless pits and drowns so you would have to say that he can resist all of that which isn't realistic. I have fallen of of Valoo's mountain a lot of times. The peak is in the clouds. How would a puny moblin's attack hurt him when a fall like that can't?

EDIT: Oh you said ledges. Yeah, I guess that counts but he always lands on his feet. Naruto jumps down from high places all the time and takes no damage. Trees, buildings, that pillar in ep 1. So actually, what would normally hurt Link wouldn't hurt Naruto at all.

#45 Posted by onilordasmodeus (2529 posts) - - Show Bio

@ultimatehero0406:

In part 1 Lee embarassed Naruto pretty bad, just as he did to Sasuke in there first encounter.

I see your point about Naruto's ninja tricks. I would have to agree that that is something Naruto would hold over Link. That is actually his best trait IMO.

Nayryu's love (iirc) lasts as long as Link's magic holds up, and i think in-game you could turn it off and on at will. If Link has it he can turn it on in a pinch and turn it off as needed, but it has to be a concious decision.

Whether you can see the cloak or not, Naruto was partially transformed. They have never gone into true detail of the transformation Naruto goes under when the 9-tail's chakra is being used, but Naruto physically changes to where his eyes are completely different, his face has some sort of wisker thing going on, and his nails are elongated. In that mode (cloak or not) Naruto is stronger, faster, and more resiliant to punishment. Sasuke too was "more-than-human" in that fight being partially transformed himself by the curse mark.

#46 Edited by Dextersinister (5769 posts) - - Show Bio

@onilordasmodeus said:

@dextersinister: Again, Lol!

Me a Link/Zelda fanboy? Hardly. While I have yet to play any handheld Zelda game, or any console Zelda game other than OoT, WW, or TP, I've seen every Naruto / Shippuden episode, and so I know for a fact that you are looking at Naruto through rose tinted glasses.

In your previous post you didn't say or show anything worth noting which is why I didn't even acknowledge it. The highest end feats you were refering to all involved Kyubi chakra (which is barred form this thread), and in base Naruto hasn't shown the level of power and speed you are trying to pass off for him. As the representing force for Naruto you should know this.

The best case that can be made for Naruto (IMO) is that with a Rasengan he can do hella damage to Link, and that if he got into Sage mode he'd most likely win. Depending on the setting I can see Sage mode happening but most likely not as Link's bow controls this match. As soon as Naruto stays still he's dead via head shot. But as I said in previous posts already, if Naruto get Sage the Link should get some of his higher end magic to match.

On the clone topic, I'll add that the only time a Naruto clone has EVER done anything worth noting is when one of them beat the 3rd Raikage...but that was when the real naruto was using the kyubi cloak so it's chakra was insanely augmented. Bombs, arrows, and magic are all viable options for Link vs one-shot-able clone.

Stop deflecting and start producing. If you think Naruto wins, show why and stop posting crap...but remember the stipulations...

Incorrect he beat Dog Guy without NT Chakra, he beat Sasuke without NT Chakra but then lost with NT chakra when Sasuke had the mark, and finally he beat Neji thanks to NT chakra. What do all these fights have in common he did them when he was a child I've been giving examples when Naruto was at his weakest and his current base Chakra would be higher than when he was using 3 tails as a child. Read the OP it says no nine tails mode that's it anything below that is fine which includes the chakra he used in a fight..

Naruto is a powerscaling manga so of course his current clone won't take out the current villain who is up to date with the current power level but they would massacre any villain before the most current upgrade but there is examples of him taking down multiple Jonin's with clones.

He can use shadow clone techniques, rasengan, summoning, has enhanced stats with base chakra, actual feats of agility, has defeated multiple named opponents, can shapeshift, has been slammed into cliff faces or cratered against the ground and there's abilities I can't remember off the top of my head and I haven't even needed to mention sage form.

Link gets massacred.

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#47 Posted by Rainquility (66 posts) - - Show Bio

@onilordasmodeus said:

@dextersinister: Again, Lol!

Me a Link/Zelda fanboy? Hardly. While I have yet to play any handheld Zelda game, or any console Zelda game other than OoT, WW, or TP, I've seen every Naruto / Shippuden episode, and so I know for a fact that you are looking at Naruto through rose tinted glasses.

In your previous post you didn't say or show anything worth noting which is why I didn't even acknowledge it. The highest end feats you were refering to all involved Kyubi chakra (which is barred form this thread), and in base Naruto hasn't shown the level of power and speed you are trying to pass off for him. As the representing force for Naruto you should know this.

The best case that can be made for Naruto (IMO) is that with a Rasengan he can do hella damage to Link, and that if he got into Sage mode he'd most likely win. Depending on the setting I can see Sage mode happening but most likely not as Link's bow controls this match. As soon as Naruto stays still he's dead via head shot. But as I said in previous posts already, if Naruto get Sage the Link should get some of his higher end magic to match.

On the clone topic, I'll add that the only time a Naruto clone has EVER done anything worth noting is when one of them beat the 3rd Raikage...but that was when the real naruto was using the kyubi cloak so it's chakra was insanely augmented. Bombs, arrows, and magic are all viable options for Link vs one-shot-able clone.

Stop deflecting and start producing. If you think Naruto wins, show why and stop posting crap...but remember the stipulations...

Incorrect he beat Dog Guy without NT Chakra, he beat Sasuke without NT Chakra but then lost with NT chakra when Sasuke had the mark, and finally he beat Neji thanks to NT chakra. What do all these fights have in common he did them when he was a child I've been giving examples when Naruto was at his weakest and his current base Chakra would be higher than when he was using 3 tails as a child. Read the OP it says no nine tails mode that's it anything below that is fine which includes the chakra he used in a fight..

Naruto is a powerscaling manga so of course his current clone won't take out the current villain who is up to date with the current power level but they would massacre any villain before the most current upgrade but there is examples of him taking down multiple Jonin's with clones.

He can use shadow clone techniques, rasengan, summoning, has enhanced stats with base chakra, actual feats of agility, has defeated multiple named opponents, can shapeshift, has been slammed into cliff faces or cratered against the ground and there's abilities I can't remember off the top of my head and I haven't even needed to mention sage form.

Link gets massacred.

This ^

#48 Edited by isaac_clarke (5448 posts) - - Show Bio

@jaywray said:

@onilordasmodeus said:

@jaywray:

How fast is Naruto with no Kyubi cloak or Sage mode?

No Sage, I can't personally remember any impressive speed showings from Naruto, despite recently watching the entire series.

I'm pretty sure via power scaling he'd have something, but I don't think it'd be anything ridiculously impressive.

Re-watch his fight with Sasuke before the two left to train with the Sanin. He was blitzing the hell out of him before Sasuke unlocked his pre-cog eyes before his first appearance of the cloak. This was the same Sasuke that was blitzing the hell out of Gaara.

#49 Posted by Sherlock (7240 posts) - - Show Bio

I said id be back with videos.

@sherlock: Batman actually has him trumped with fighting larger groups at the same time clearing out prison wards with hundreds of convicts. Link never fights more than around 10 of those Goblins that take an hour to swing their sword.

Naruto on the other hand can challenge hundreds of ninjas all of which have magical powers and enhanced stats.

First off thats not ten by any means the first wave alone is 30-50.Even going by cannon fodder (And a good portion of them were not) thats a lot of bodies and would overwhelm a lot of comic characters.I dont recall that batman instance when was it?Im merely curious here.

Link has fought stronger enemies than Naruto before and some damned fast ones as well.Not to mention again when Naruto uses hundreds of clones they usually just stand there he get killed without doing jack.

Ghirrahim is outrageously fast as shown here.Hes also a proficient swordsman magician and teleporter with an added ability of telekinesis.The powers he has alone are credentials for him.Link beat him 3 times over the coarse of the game.Anyone wants to argue the point throw some feats out that dont have to do with the nine tails.Sorry but Narutio lost to Neji pure and simple.He only managed to jerk out a win because of the nine tails chakra.Its an inadmissible feat in relation to this battle

#50 Edited by onilordasmodeus (2529 posts) - - Show Bio

@dextersinister: Wrong.

Naruto vs Kiba was simply a genin beating another inexperience genin; a genin who underestimated him and got surprised because he was fooled multiple times. Naruto tricked Kiba like 4 times in that fight, but all the experienced people watching followed Naruto's every move. Lol! Naruto beat Kiba by farting in his face (accidentally) and then capitalizing while his was standing still.

Naruto never beat Sasuke...ever; every time they fought Sasuke beat Naruto at every turn until the final fight when they were even, and even then Naruto lost.

Naurto vs Neji was naruto getting his butt handed to him until the 9-tail helped him...and then he tricked him for the win.

You keep talking about powerscaling but the context you are trying to use it in doesn't fly. All the genin fight's that you keep citing don't "scale up" so I don't know what you are talking about. Naruto's feats as a child are just that, him as a child. The only thing that was exceptional about Naruto as a child was his will and durability as in every single fight he had he got his butt handed to him. That doesn't scale.

Example. Could 1 tailed Naruto, the one that fought Sasuke, beat anybody in Shippuden? The answer is no. Most Chunin or Jonin level fighters would take out 1 tailed Naruto, and it would take upwards of 4 tails for him to be beat the S-ranked fighters. Sage mode Naruto equals about 3-4 tails; base shippuden Naruto is no where even near 1-tail speed and durability.

Lol! Now who's listing abilities?

I will whole heartedly agree that Naruto's ability to take abuse against blunt force attacks is beyond Link, but an arrow could put him down, just as a well placed sword strike would end him.