Liara and Commandos vs Master Chief and Spartans

what? since when and says who? please explain

Read my past few posts. DLC were fun things added. Characters like the last Promethean and other Special characters were just fun. Cannon wise they did not exist nor proceede or mention in the Comics.

They are uncannon.

Lair of the Shadow Broker is not cannon in that Sheperd was there. If you did not buy the DLC pakage, Liara beats the SB and a Asari Specter on her own. Thats cannon with the Original ME3 Game and Dark Horse Comics.

@cadencev2: Mass Effect is a game made on choices and possibilites, who determines what's cannon or not? in my game she did it with my help, so on my parallel universe that's the cannon. you simple cannot dismiss DLC stuff because some comics are not matching the continuity of that DLC. DLC's are not just "fun things", they add to the universe and story

and it's not last Promethean (you got that probably from Prometheus, that Alien franchise movie), it's the last Prothean, Javik. I dont see how he is not cannon either, if in thousands of parallel universes from several people that played with DLC he existed and was active on ME3

Commandos take this due to Biotics, ME weaponry and, most importantly, biotic barriers. The biotic barriers of the Commandos stand up against hypersonic projectiles on a regular basis. The UNSC weaponry can't deliver that kind of force, meaning that the Commando's barriers will perform better in this battle and likely offer much greater protection. The Spartan III shielding will be supremely outmatched not only by the barriers of the Commandos but by the ME weapons as well. Considering that the Commandos have access to energy weapons in the form of the Particle Rifle, Collector Rifle and the Arc Pistol, the Spartan shields should go down fairly quickly. Even the projectile weapons of the Commandos should be capable of delivering more force than the Spartan shields are built to take.

Like Deranged Midget said in the first post, Spartans,if working together, can almost seem unstoppable but then again the commandos have better tech AND they are very adept at biotics not to mention Liara herself. Still I say under John's leadership I think the spartans can pull a narrow victory IF they use effective tactics such as an ambush of some sort. And if Liara should fall then yes the commandos will fall.

The cannon is when you play the Game fresh each time. With no choices made the Game auto follows the CANNON route. People have not played the 1st or 2nd game. The Third Game sets up the establish CANNON anyway.

You really dont know this?

Also the Movie, Books, and Novels establish CANNON of the Decisions the creators decided would be the CANNON of the games.

@cadencev2: what are you talking about? only ME3 had auto play, the first ones didn't. also

what movies and books? i knew there was comics but movies and books? and who says the creators can decide in a franchise solely based on multiple chances and decisions what parallel universe is cannon? they are all cannon

if in one playthrough Liara takes down the Yagh by herself, that's possible, it proves she can do it. if on another playthrough she does it with Shep's help, it doesn't contradict the previous scenario, it's just a different context, she still takes him out, but with help, even though she could've done it without - and we know this because there are multiple possibilities, in this case, one being Liara taking down the Lair and the rogue asari spectre by herself.

OMG have you ever played the 2nd Game without the first?

Cannon Facts.

1) Council is killed.

2) Ashley Lives.

3) Wrex Dies on Virmire.

4) Garrus is on your team (you can chose not to have him in the 1st)

5) Udina is Councilman

6) All Side Missions of the Thorian, Vimire, ect characters will not appear.

7) You battle the rogue AI on the moon, this leads to EDI.

8) You battled Cerberus on a side mission as stated in the 2nd game.

9) You saved the Rachni Queen

Ect, ect, These are all the CANNON crap that happens if you did not play the first game. Its a fact. Its the Game Creators pre set establish facts. Just as John Sheperds name is John Sheperd and his face looks like his face.

This is the Cannon of the game.

DLC are not, they are merely for fun and added missions.

I think the main point of ME is that no version is truly canon, but all versions are possible. All that means is that all Liara feats for any scenario are applicable -- for the purposes of this thread, that means she beat the shadow broker and the asari spectre on her own, which are big feats.

Yet that is bull crap as there is a establish Cannon of events. Game purpose all possibilities are possible. However 99% of the choices made do not affect the ending of the game in ANYWAY. The Choices are filler, period.

The Auto Quick Starts of Mass Effect 2 and Mass Effect 3 Establish Cannon Events.

The Mass Effect Comics establish further Cannon Facts from ME1 and ME2.

There is no inffinit choices of cannon or pre story in the Dark Horse Comics or movie Paragon Lost.

In terms of other characters, the DLC serves no purpose in establishing canon. It only serves to establish Shepard's canon in the Mass Effect universe. As stated by dredeuced, Liara goes through the Shadow Broker mission regardless of Shepard's help, but the DLC helps establish what would've happened if Shepard was indeed present.

Exactly.

actually no, I've seen the calcs in fact pile

ME infantry weapons and shields are not as powerful as they are claimed to be (they are still powerful, but not as you would think)

team Halo's weapons are perfectly capable of taking down their shields with moderate difficulty, mean while the Spartans will be using their speed to avoid the biotic attacks.

Could you elaborate on these calculations? Or post the link to where you found the information?

@coltnelson:

around post 84 and than the next few pages

http://www.factpile.com/1482-halo-vs-mass-effect/

makes sense to me, I'm not dishing ME equipment or anything but I believe Halo has what it takes to harm them with out too much difficulty

Info on Shields and Mass Effect weapons.

Gallery

Mass Accelerators in Weapons.

Gallery

Mass Effect Kinetic Barrier.

Gallery

This describes what Mass Effect is and how they use it to make Denser Materials in basic armor that the UNSC has no way in doing.

@omegablast452:

I read the posts. It seems Kinetic Barrier are pretty Superior from what i was reading. Bullets will widdle them down, however Mass Accelerator Weapons are made to fire at Hyper Sonic Velocities (Mach 5+) Standard. UNSC Weapons are Barely Mach 1+. It will be difficult.

The main problem with this is the biotic attacks which are undodgeable.

@cadencev2:true, but my point remains (as long as the spartans don't get tag, I do know that ME weapons would utterly destroy the spartans with a few shots) as long as they don't get tagged they can widdle down the shields and take em out.

@omegablast452: They both have pretty solid Defense.

@dredeuced: I disagree, if the spartans can get enough distance from the projectiles or just go for a speed blitz in theory they can avoid it

Asari's haven't shown any super human speed reaction feats or movement in game, they can't tag the Spartans if they can't target them well.

Liara has super human feats such as destroying steel machinery with her bare fists and dodging point blank fire from multiple people. They technically have super human "ability" by just using their biotics to amp their speed and strength.

It's irrelevant as some Biotic powers such as Lift and Stasis are instant -- there's no projectile or travel time to dodge, the target is instantly lifted into the air or put into a bubble of space time warping mass effect energy. Spartans don't run faster than bullets, they can't just blitz them that easily.

@dredeuced: lol I never saw her doge point blank gun fire, scans?

p.s: I never said they were as fast as bullets but Spartans are still greater in speed than humans with out their suits and even faster with them.

She easily Blitz these 4 mercs. They could barely React to her Biotic Up.

Here she Blitz 3 Blues sons before they can fire back. Only the Hitman of the shadow Broker Tavitz reacts.

@cadencev2 said:

@omegablast452 said:

@dredeuced: lol I never saw her doge point blank gun fire, scans?

p.s: I never said they were as fast as bullets but Spartans are still greater in speed than humans with out their suits and even faster with them.

She easily Blitz these 4 mercs. They could barely React to her Biotic Up.

Here she Blitz 3 Blues sons before they can fire back. Only the Hitman of the shadow Broker Tavitz reacts.

Ah, this is During ME 2 right?

where she kills the shadow broker?

@omegablast452: I believe it's between ME 1 and ME 2 when Liara is hunting down the Shadow Broker, I'm pretty sure Feron shows up in the comics, so it has to be before ME 2 as he spent the entirety of ME2 locked up in the Shadow Broker's base until Liara busts him out.

@omegablast452: Both these Scans was right after Sheperd died. She had 2 more Years to developed her powers and skills before ME2 and the Shadow Broker.

@dredeuced: @cadencev2:

Okay I conceded.

who says that? you keep stating it, but who says you choose what's cannon or not? the devs, obviously needed to have something established for players who didn't import save files, that's a no brainer, but it does not deem it cannon.

I completelly agree with @dredeuced the whole poiint of the ME franchise is that there is no true universe, you make your own story
and the comics need to have a common ground otherwise they would be all over the place, but just like super hero comics, they are just one universe. since we cannot go in a battle thread and say: wrex vs master chief - wrex is the one that survived virmire with a paragon shepard who select the destroy ending and had the DLC packs, because that would be unpractical, every feat is acceptable, because althought they are different parallel universes, they difer only in small details when it comes to the characters capabilities.

and I dont even know why are you shoving this cannon crap all over everyone's throats when pretty much everyone except Citizenbane, who you are argumenting against, have agreed that Liara did and is capable of beating the Shadow Broker and the rogue asari on her own

@cadencev2: Exactly how fast is Miss T'soni moving and reacting in these scans?

@xlr87t3: She is at point blank range against ME3 weaponry, which is mach5+ in muzzle velocity, she's shown dodging after the guy fires, as well, so she's capable of reacting to those levels of speeds with her biotic amps up.

@jorgevy: well if you truly belive that, after all the evidence of the Establish Cannon, of the Comics, the Devolopers and Writer Establish Game Choices, and Movie... then I really have nothing left to say. Enjoy the world where everything is cannon as well contradicting.

@deranged_midget: Also I been replaying my ME games. Info on Asari Combat Doctrine.

There is that.

Asari commandos are heavily train in decades of combat Experience and best at Guerrila Tactics. They are Masters at special Forces Missions. Also noted is only Powerful Biotics are used. Weaker ones being turned away.

<p>I would say that the outcome is extremely easy to imagine. The spartan III's, while weaker, are equipped with camouflage armor, trained with and in it, and to put the cherry on top, have sniper rifles. Yes, stasis field is instant, but requires line of sight. You can't kill what you can't see. Master chief has energy shields and is augmented as hell, as are the rest if them. In fact, the Spartan III project had an unexpected factor added in, thanks to a certain lieutenant Ambrose (Spartan 051-Kurt), who added in a mutagen that alters the key regions of their frontal lobes, making the animal part of the mind more accessible in times of stress, allowing them to draw upon extreme reserves of strength and endurance that no human could ever use. With this they can( and have if you've read halo: ghosts of onyx) fight while bleeding out or getting burned by a plasma bolt. They've also been training since the age of six. When did the commandos start training? Sixteen? Twenty? The Spartans truly deserve their name. You could sent maybe 10 squads against these guys and they'd be like," Awwwww! Dead already?! It was just getting fun!"</p>

@gavgnome: Except the Asari have Biotic Powers that enhance their own Speed, Strength, and are far more durable.

Also as I posted Asari Commandos are the most feared Special Forces Every day of their lives is honing their skill. They train for 30 years before seeing combat alone in Alien Martial arts and Covert Tactics. Added to this they live up to 1000 years, 300 of it honing their skill and battle experience.

So Asari commandos have WAY more combat Experience and Training time than any Spartan 3. Thats a sad fact.

I believe the Asari have more training time than the Spartans have life expectancy.

Spartans have a major advantage in leadership. But even if they didn't, I'd give this fight to the spartans.

Asari are just... lesser soldiers. Except Justicars, at least Samara.

I dont know where it's contradicting, when there's plenty of parallel universes to go around. all those feats are possible to be used, but whatever.

I only got into this to support your claim that Liara could defeat the SB and the asari spectre. who says she only didn't do it by herself in my (and other people's) run of the game in the DLC, because she was afraid to go all out and hit Shepard? Specially against the yahg Shadow Broker, it made sense, it was a confined space

So basically, she can twitch at hypersonic speeds?

Twitch might be a good word for it. it would be short burst only.

@cadencev2: Yeah you're right. Hmm, I think I am going to post on the Thought Speed, Combat Speed, Reaction Speed thread tomorrow. I have some math questions to ask...