Liara and Commandos vs Master Chief and Spartans

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Liara T'Soni (ME3) and 5 Asari Commands. Full access to all Biotic abilities. Commandos and Liara have full Access to Pistols and Rifles.

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Master Chief (Halo 4) and 5 Spartan 3s. They have full acess to UNSC Rifles,Machine Guns, Shotgun, and Pistol. No Covenant Tech!

Battle here.

Battle is a Extermination scenario.

Start out of sight Half a Mile Away

@cadencev2: Fantastic battle mate! Love the set-up! Just to avoid confusion though, the picture you posted of the SPARTANS are actually SPARTAN-II's not III's :) Regardless, if I may inquire you as to what level Biotics the Commando's are? Are the proficiently skilled to the level of say Liara or the average skill level?

Also, what are the conditions to win? How far apart are they starting off? Any knowledge pre-battle?

Based off what you have given thus far, I'd say John is the most capable soldier on the battlefield. He's faster, stronger and more skilled than anyone here. His reaction time alone would put him on a level above even Liara, allowing him to safely dodge her biotics at a safe distance while pegging her team with pin-point accuracy.

ALTHOUGH! John's team is a loss in two factors. SPARTAN-III's are relatively weaker in every physical category and are less equipped to work in small teams than a SPARTAN-II such as John would be. Depending on the standard armour they are given, they are at a loss due to the outdated shielding tech as well.

Adding on to that, the Asari have a SEVERE advantage in terms of weaponry. Not only do the weapons fire different types of ammunition, but it's also universal while the Spartans are limited to UNSC tech, which is still efficient, but easily overcome by the Mass Effect array of weaponry.

With that being said, I'll move on the basics. The average SPARTAN-III against a sole Asari commando can go either way but the SPARTAN-III's will be more equipped as working as a singular unit than the commando's will. Their tactics will utilize surprise attacks that might take advantage of the Asari who are less inclined to combine their efforts and split them apart. Although, they can make up for it in terms of biotics. Depending on the vicinity of the attack, a SPARTAN-III may or not be able to avoid the attack and if hit, render them open for a wide-spread attack.

John vs Liara is a completely different story though. Liara is about average in terms of physical capabilities which is why she is rather adept with her biotics. She is also a respectable marksman but nothing to boast about in terms of the Mass Effect universe. John's best bet would be to keep a distance from Liara as she can amplify her biotic abilities to land a severely damaging blow in close quarters as seen in the Shadow Broker DLC. John on the other hand is regarded as one of the most tactically brilliant minds of the SPARTAN-II's and that would aid him greatly with his team here. Liara on the other hand, isn't a very capable leader, preferring to work more by her lonesome and in the shadows.

It's a tough call but if John were to take Liara out of the equation, the Commando's would quickly fall apart as the SPARTAN-III's as a team would be a greater fighting force due to their enhanced senses, training and physical stats.

@deranged_midget: Thanks alot. Also I been really have a hard time telling the Difference between 2 and 3s. I played Halo 1-4 but the 2s and 3s are featured in Halo Reach yes? Anyway what is the key difference in Armor looks?

As for skills of Commandos, they are adepts in Biotics and if you look at people like Aria (ME Comics) as well Mordrith (ME2), well the Commandos are very tough. In Mass Effect 3 they have impressive feats in battling the Reapers on their Home Planet.

Inputed Start Distance and Win Conditions.

I think Spartans can win this uf it's Spartan 2's but any other Spartan type loses especially 4's.

@ultrastarkiller: There Spartan 3s

@cadencev2: Then they lose.

Halo Reach sports SPARTAN-III's yes, but Noble Squad is the only group of SPARTAN-III's to ever receive a higher grade of MJOLNIR armour, Mark IV in fact. This is the first armour John and the other SPARTAN-II's wore before the tech became outdated and they switched over to MJOLNIR Mark V which is what John uses throughout the original Halo. Mark VI is what John sports throughout the remaining Halo games.

You mean Morinth? She's an exception as she's actually an Ardrat-Yakshi meaning that she grows smarter and more powerful each time she... "hooks up" with another partner. Having said that, the average Asari Biotic doesn't display skill over their power as well as the higher level Asari's showcased in Shepard's squad such as Liara, Samara or even Morinth (who in fact was Samara's daughter).

Nonetheless, that doesn't mean they aren't capable soldiers. Quite the opposite, but SPARTAN-III's are bred for the sole purpose of battle, and despite being physically inferior to John or the SPARTAN-II's, their training remains largely the same.

@cadencev2: Oh by the way! The picture you posted showcasing the UNSC weaponry really only shows two different rifles: The MA5D Standard issue Assault rifle and the BR85HB Battle Rifle. Everything else is just a different concept art for the two rifles! To make it more fair, seeing is the Asari have a HUGE advantage in weaponry, add in the M395 DMR and possibly the M6H Magnum with either a M45D Shotgun or 99 Series Sniper Rifle.

Yeah, I need to find a Picture with just all the UNSC Weapons. I can Individual put in the Images tho.

I'm pretty sure the Asari mega stomp. People underestimate just how viciously overpowered Biotics are.

No, people overestimate the average biotic and assume that everyone is as powerful as Samara or Jack, who were the two most powerful biotics to appear during Shepard's story. :)

@deranged_midget: Irrelevant, really. Stasis op. Just lock up all the spartans and put some beads on their heads. Drop a singularity in there for giggles while they pointlessly shoot at your artillery level biotic fields.

Jack has some pretty crazy feats but Samara never actually did anything that put her over Liara, and gameplay wise she's completely inferior.

@deranged_midget: Your name is awesome.

Liara has average physical stats and besides being stated to be a skilled biotic at best, she has never done anything significant to put her anywhere near the level of an Asari Justicar such as Samara or the true Biotic powerhouse that Jack is. Both of which showcased more biotic feats in ME2 than Liara did in the entirety of the trilogy.

Statsis requires that a target be hit for it to be of any use. John alone can dodge any of Liara's biotic attacks with ease considering the starting distance as he's dodged a banshee's plasma shots from a distance of only 500m away with ease. As for singularity, it has a rather small radius for it become effective and it's a pretty visible attack that can be avoided rather easily. Liara's a scientist, not a solider. She's severely outclassed by John.

Thanks for the response!

Give me a feat for Samara. I've played the games, the only thing I remember her doing was beating up an Eclipse merc (hardly impressive) and battling with her daughter, who has featless and unstated levels of biotic strength. In ME3 she shows up and does basically nothing but run around a monastery while you do all the work. I agreed that Jack is more powerful, but lacks finite control and ability for stuff like Stasis and Singularity (which are really the most OP biotic abilities)

Stasis has no travel time. You can't dodge it. It's not like warp or shockwave where you see a big blue energy ball coming your way, the mass effect field instantly forms around the target. That's why it's so damned OP in battles like this. Can't see it coming, get instantly locked up, and if it's Mass Effect 3 Stasis (which Liara has), you can hurt the target while stasised AND it forms a giant bubble around the target that stasises anyone near them. If you remember the ME1 cutscene with Benezia, she just points her hand at the target and they're locked up, instantly, if you need a non-gameplay example.

Liara is a soldier, the heck you talking about? She takes out Cerberus and Shadow Broker forces, by herself. Rescues her operatives from slaughter, invades the shadow broker base, and is with Shepard every step of the way for the reaper invasion. She's more of a solider than many despite her origins as a scientist. This is an absurd thing to bring up. I guess Iron Man can't do crap in a fight because he's a scientist? It's a pointless distinction to make, she's a scientist that spends the entire series kicking everyone's ass with you.

Hey mate, sorry for the late response! Back to it! :D

Fair point, besides the fact that she's stated to be one of the oldest Asari's still alive and one of the deadliest at that, most of her feats are on paper. So, point to you my good sir!

Indeed, but stasis still needs a target to it does it not? And on top of that, it takes for her to recharge the power. She can't constantly toss it out as she wishes. Considering that the two teams start a half mile away and are both out of sight, that gives no advantage to Liara in regards to using stasis. John, on the other hand is extremely adept at fighting and avoiding attacks from a distance, even those that move almost instantaneously such as a Banshee's plasma blasters, which John was shown avoiding at a distance of 500 metres, at a younger age and with weaker armour. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say that it will be more effective on the likes of the SPARTAN-III's as they are no where near as effective by their lonesome as John is.

Even WITHOUT the armour and only a mere few months after his augmentation, John had recorded reaction speeds of 20 milliseconds -- 10 times faster than that of an average human and it only increased with age and during combat as their adrenaline pumped. The MJOLNIR Mark VI armour amplifies John's reaction speed by a factor of five and all of his other physical stats by that same factor.

Additional to that, if the Sniper rifle is available for the Spartan team as it states all UNSC rifles, then that's only adding fuel to the fire for John as he, and almost all other SPARTAN-II's were expert marksman with pin-point accuracy.

Yes, Liara fights alongside Shepard in the war against the Reapers, I never stated against that. But what is her main profession I ask you? She was a scientist, albeit a very combat skilled scientist at that as well, but still a scientist. Is she capable of murdering and laying waste to her opponents? Heck yeah she is! She's one of the more reliable squad mates available to you in Mass Effect, I never disputed that.

But to quickly re-iterate. John is a straight up soldier. He was trained mercilessly since the age of six, being taught NOTHING else but the tactics of war, being prepared to be the UNSC's greatest and final hope in the war against the rebels and Covenant. Liara is good, I'll give her that, but John is nearly unparalleled. He murdered thousands of Covenant soldiers alike by his lonesome, wrestled against Brutes after surviving a near-orbital drop and suffering brain damage, internal bleeding, and muscle failure and still came out the victor.

Most of everything that Liara has done was with the assistance of Shepard, particularly in the case of taking down the Shadow Broker.

@deranged_midget: No problem, pal. I'm not keeping a timer for responses, lol.

Hey mate, sorry for the late response! Back to it! :D

Fair point, besides the fact that she's stated to be one of the oldest Asari's still alive and one of the deadliest at that, most of her feats are on paper. So, point to you my good sir!

Yeah, I mean speculatively Samara should be more powerful because of her age and history, but there's just nothing to show for it. For all we know she's spent her life fighting inferior foes to Liara, who has to deal with crazy advanced Reapers, Cerberus, Shadow Broker and Collector forces. Gohan was stronger than Goku even if he was younger :P Potential!

Indeed, but stasis still needs a target to it does it not? And on top of that, it takes for her to recharge the power. She can't constantly toss it out as she wishes. Considering that the two teams start a half mile away and are both out of sight, that gives no advantage to Liara in regards to using stasis. John, on the other hand is extremely adept at fighting and avoiding attacks from a distance, even those that move almost instantaneously such as a Banshee's plasma blasters, which John was shown avoiding at a distance of 500 metres, at a younger age and with weaker armour. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say that it will be more effective on the likes of the SPARTAN-III's as they are no where near as effective by their lonesome as John is.

Even WITHOUT the armour and only a mere few months after his augmentation, John had recorded reaction speeds of 20 milliseconds -- 10 times faster than that of an average human and it only increased with age and during combat as their adrenaline pumped. The MJOLNIR Mark VI armour amplifies John's reaction speed by a factor of five and all of his other physical stats by that same factor.

Additional to that, if the Sniper rifle is available for the Spartan team as it states all UNSC rifles, then that's only adding fuel to the fire for John as he, and almost all other SPARTAN-II's were expert marksman with pin-point accuracy.

True, it does need a target, but the only requirement is line of sight, and even then you can fire it into shadows/unseen terrain like when Cerberus use their smoke bombs, it's just blind firing. Line of sight is quite the range, sniper rifles or not.

The thing about Biotics is that they're more than "close to instant" -- there's no travel time or visible animation of it until you're already caught. Mass Effect fields allow FTL capability so there's no reason to even think it's limited to light speed en route to a target. It just can't be dodged by any reasonable estimation.

Many of the assault rifles have sniper capabilities in the ME arsenal, also. You can also increase your line of sight and use your powers through the scope's increased range in the game, so any long distance advantage should be mitigated by that. I'd also rate Mass Effect weaponry above UNSC weaponry (though probably below Forerunner tech).

Yes, Liara fights alongside Shepard in the war against the Reapers, I never stated against that. But what is her main profession I ask you? She was a scientist, albeit a very combat skilled scientist at that as well, but still a scientist. Is she capable of murdering and laying waste to her opponents? Heck yeah she is! She's one of the more reliable squad mates available to you in Mass Effect, I never disputed that.

But to quickly re-iterate. John is a straight up soldier. He was trained mercilessly since the age of six, being taught NOTHING else but the tactics of war, being prepared to be the UNSC's greatest and final hope in the war against the rebels and Covenant. Liara is good, I'll give her that, but John is nearly unparalleled. He murdered thousands of Covenant soldiers alike by his lonesome, wrestled against Brutes after surviving a near-orbital drop and suffering brain damage, internal bleeding, and muscle failure and still came out the victor.

Most of everything that Liara has done was with the assistance of Shepard, particularly in the case of taking down the Shadow Broker.

You might want to brush up on your Mass Effect story, Liara was tangling with the shadow broker while Shepard was dead after the collectors attacked Normandy SR-1. She, canonically, fought off Shadow Broker forces and got Shepard's body to Cerberus on her own and fought off an asari spectre (which should be leagues above any commando) on even terms (despite shepard's presence, most of the cutscenes involved Shepard lagging behind Liara in the chase and fight). The entire comic series with her is about her going around kicking ass on her own time while Shepard is off fighting collectors or being revived by Cerberus. John doeas have better training than her, but I don't think it's really an issue given how viciously effective Liara has been ever since you release her from the bubble. Training can only account for so much when your opponent can use energy attacks with their brains, lol. Like I said, the commandos are also capable of stuff like erecting Artillery proof barriers for their comrades while they fire their own Biotic attacks. Biotics are op in this scenario.

Yeah, true enough! I mean, she COULD be more powerful at this point, but evidently the focus was drawn on Liara rather than on Samara. It matters not!

In regards to the weaponry, I already stated in my opening argument that the Spartan team is utterly outmatched. Mass Effect weaponry and the ones listed in the OP are INSANE! The M-99 Saber alone is a powerhouse of a weapon and basically a sniper rifle with a faster rate of fire! If it came down to it, I'd be inclined to give an overall edge to the Asari solely based on the fact that weaponry is that superior to the UNSC's tech.

Fair enough in regards to only needing a line of sight, but the Chief nor the Spartans will be standing still waiting to get hit by Stasis. On top of that, it doesn't have a large radius to help attribute to its instantaneous detection. So while you state it can't be dodged, I'd say that'd be far more applicable when in close quarters if the Spartans or any other other opponent were limited in space and/or cover.

Thank you for sharing but yes, I knew that much, but canonically, she didn't hold up against the Shadow Broker WITH Shepard's assistance, so it feels as if the comic was made to reprimand that fact but the former still stands. Like I said, I never downplayed any of Liara's feats nor her capabilities but she has never fought an opponent of John's physical capabilities nor is there really anyone in the Mass Effect universe really comparable to him. The closest you'd get is possibly Thane in terms of speed whilst in his prime.

As I stated before, in a 1v1 fight, I'd say the Commando's are more than capable of over-powering a SPARTAN-III due to their inferior physical stats and armour (in comparison to John), but as a team, they operate far better than that seen of an Asari spec ops unit. In that regard, I still believe John has an advantage over Liara by being a ridiculous amount faster than her, far more capable and skilled with a weapon and could overcome her quicker than she'd be able to react, but in the long run, the SPARTAN-III's would fall to the biotic superiority of the Asari, leaving John by his lonesome, in which he might not be able to come out victorious.

That's also because I'm attributing a LARGE advantage to the weaponry the Asari are in possession of. I'd say the Asari would take a small majority of the Spartans in this bout.

Honestly, I just see John getting Stasis'd and having a few grenades tossed as his feet. Guess I just rate Spartans less than you do.

Jorge-052 is the only SPARTAN-II in Halo : Reach (other than Master Chief who makes a small cameo as an easter egg). All the other SPARTAN's are SPARTAN-III's.

Also giving Forerunner weapons for the SPARTAN-III's would be an interesting factor.

Giving anything other than simply UNSC weaponry would be interesting. As it stands, it's easily the most inferior of the bunch.

@deranged_midget said:

True. Even in the year 2550 and onward, humanity still has pretty pathetic weaponry compared to any other alien race xD

But hey, the SPARTAN-II's are the best weapons in my opinion :P

Spartans, but in a close match

The commando's are pretty much equal with the exception of physical stats but the biotics make up for it.

Indeed! It's sad that so few are left :(

Equal to who in terms of physical stats? Most definitely not John. The SPARTAN-III's might be inferior to SPARTAN-II's like John to a certain degree, but they are still slightly superior to Asari Commando's. Although you are correct in stating that the biotics will more than make up for it.

@deranged_midget: no I meant superior to the Asari's

overall in the Halo series the Spartan variants are like this

Spartan II's>>>>III's>>>>>IV's>>>I's

That is true. Who is your favorite SPARTAN-II (other than John)? Mine would be Kurt-051.

@omegablast452: Sorry, I misread your comment then!

@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek: Oooh good question! Kurt was a brilliant commander, sacrificing his own life to save his fellow Spartans. He died an honorable death.

To be honest though, it'd have to be either Samuel-034.

So many Spartans!

I also did not want to give Forunner tech at all.

Also I steated this is Halo 4 jhon, no one brought up the Halo 4 Suit Upgrades? Like Cloak, Jet Pack, ect..

;) Forerunner tech would be equivalent or greater to the Mass Effect weaponry. It depends though.

As for the suit upgrades, they aren't built into the MJOLNIR Armour, they are merely pick-ups (from a game-play stand-point). It's up to you if you want to add in armour upgrades for John and the Spartans as it might help counter the Asari's biotics.

@deranged_midget: Pretty much. I added Halo 4 John for the purpose.

Hey that's the beauty of debating mate, it's a learning experience! :)

@deranged_midget: What? I've debated against Chief before on this forum, nothing I'm seeing here was new, lol. Like I said, I just don't see a reasonable counter to stasis.

@dredeuced: When did I say that you were ignorant to the topic at hand? I merely stated the true purpose behind debating; learning and passing on knowledge to one another.

@deranged_midget: ...What? I never said you thought I was ignorant. You just said it was a learning experience when I didn't really learn anything, lol. Just a debate about a couple of teams I'm well versed on.

*sighs*

Forget what I even said anything, this isn't going anywhere.

@cadencev2: Halo 4's John is no different than the one seen in Halo 3 with the small exception of somehow being affected by the Forerunner Librarian, which never truly helped him in any way (yet).

If you feel as if adding armour abilities may aid the Spartans in battle, feel free to add them. Frankly, I feel as a boost in weaponry would make a more drastic difference.

Liara isn't exactly the best, if this was Samara, Halo team wouldnt have a chance

Actually Feat wise in comics and Game, Liara is proven leagues beyond Samara. The only reason people think Samara is boss is because her title of Justicar. yet her Feats are inferior to Liara.

how do the comics feat in cannon? never read them I admit. but Im still not sure Liara is that beyond Samara. same level i guess, but seriously? leagues beyond?

Comics are 100% Cannon and exist in between the Events of ME1-ME2 and ME2-ME3.

Also Smara only 2 real feats is one cutscene of fighting a Eclipse Lt., needing Sheperd's help to kill Morinth, and a Bitotic Barrier to keep out the Swarms. That it....

Liara has made a Biotic Barrier that keeps out tons of Ocean Pressure and 1000000 thousands of Gallons of Sea Water.

Liara has bested a Rogue Cerebus Phantom one on one.

Liara has blitz and beaten Blue son Mercs byherself 3 seperate Times, two times had Tavitz with them! Tavitz is the Shadow Brokers best Hitman.

Liara has Evaded and killed many Ceberus soldiers after they took the Mars base.

Liara Cnnonly took out the Shadow Broker without Sheperd's help as well a Asari Specter.

So yes... Liara is far Superior by feats.

@cadencev2: actually on my run of the games, she did get my help for some of those, like Shadow Broker. hmm, I need to check out those comics

I guess Im just biased against Liara because she rarely helps me as a squadmate while Samara is uber helpful

You have to remember the DLC pakages are uncannon. Like Lair of the Shadow Broker.

That's not entirely true mate. Most of the DLC's attribute in some way to the main story at hand. ME3 assumes that players have played Lair of the Shadow Broker considering that Liara is indeed still the Shadow Broker.

@deranged_midget: Liara is the Shadow Broker if you do the DLC or not. Neither is more canon than the other -- if you didn't buy the DLC then Liara was perfectly capable of defeating the Shadow broker base (and the Spectre who came after her) with no help from Shepard at all. That's why I brought up that she could defeat an Asari Spectre -- if she didn't, then she'd be dead as balls in ME3 if you didn't have the Shadow Broker DLC.

Yes I know, hence why I brought that up. The only difference being whether or not Shepard was involved or not. The game automatically assumes that Liara went through Shadow Broker mission and took the position with or without your help, which is what I stated.

I thought you were saying that Liara's feats of the Shadow Broker ordeal such as storming the base and dealing with a spectre weren't attributable to her. My mistake if that wasn't your intention.

Well then, it seems that we are constantly misinterpreting each other haha. No worries though, I was just trying to establish that Liara still goes the through the process of the Shadow Broker mission with or without Shepard's help and ME3 assumes that the player knows that.

I wanna participate since I'm such a huge Mass Effect fan but I'm just dumbfounded since I don't know enough about the Spartans. :(

Oh yeas, the shadow Broker Ordeal is cannon, however as a DLC it is not Cannon with sheperd being there. That is what I meant. lol