Lex Luthor Vs Astonishing X-Men

King of Kings says:

"How long does it take to kill? Cause it seems Beast, even if he was sick, would be able to come up with a cure real quick for something like that. Wouldnt Lex have to be careful not to infect himself or the population? Sounds like it would be harmful to human's as well."

nano tech is hideously scary stuff because it would be able to kill so quickly... it could easily attack someones DNA, or simply build up in the blood vessels around the heart stopping the blood reaching it.

M

King of Kings says:

"Of course Beast was able to gather Mutant DNA, he lives in a mansion full of em (sorry, couldn't help it) if Lex is such a master at the art of genetic warfare, he's had Superman's DNA on countless occasions, why has he never performed this attack on him? And I still don't believe this virus would have any affect on Wolverine at all. "

he's tried a few times, but Kryptonian tech is far superior and can render the nanotech inert... thats why Braniac has a problem with it

M

Buckshot says:

"King of Kings says:

"Buckshot says:

"To give people superpowers he's getting into genetics. Altering DNA. That's *totally* unconnected to how one might turn off superpowers that stem from DNA right?"

He's getting into specific DNA. DNA he created. How would he know anything about the X-Gene?"

Why don't you think Lex could find out anything about the X-Gene? What do you think prep time is? When we say "whomever with however long prep" do you think they prepare blindly for anything and everything? My understanding of it was always they get time to prepare for the specific threat they're facing, meaning he'd know about them and that they're mutants. I'm not saying he has instant access to every single thing about them (their DNA for example) but Beast was able to get loads of mutant genetic samples in a very short time when he was looking for a cure, why can't Luthor do the same with his prep? You don't think Lex does research? And even if Lex decided not to do anything regarding the X-Gene, he could still attack the rest of them with a virus. There's an X-Gene, not everything is mutated. He could infect them with a virus designed to destroy any part of DNA that wasn't the x-gene.
Post Edited:2007-11-07 05:00:38"

So basically its the Legacy Virus story arc, but instead of Stryfe, its Lex Luthor.

Of course Beast was able to gather Mutant DNA, he lives in a mansion full of em (sorry, couldn't help it) if Lex is such a master at the art of genetic warfare, he's had Superman's DNA on countless occasions, why has he never performed this attack on him? And I still don't believe this virus would have any affect on Wolverine at all.

don't look at me... i'm listing realworld nanotech as examples of what it can do... i can't explain how DC writers deal with it lol

M

Methos says:

"King of Kings says:

"Of course Beast was able to gather Mutant DNA, he lives in a mansion full of em (sorry, couldn't help it) if Lex is such a master at the art of genetic warfare, he's had Superman's DNA on countless occasions, why has he never performed this attack on him? And I still don't believe this virus would have any affect on Wolverine at all. "

he's tried a few times, but Kryptonian tech is far superior and can render the nanotech inert... thats why Braniac has a problem with it

M"

But if its air born, its not like Superman walks around with Kryptonian tech on all the time. He would be breathing it in and not even know it. Unless your saying he has time to get sick, and use the tech to cure himself. In which case I ask again, how long does it take to kill.

Lmao

King of Kings says:

"So basically its the Legacy Virus story arc, but instead of Stryfe, its Lex Luthor.Of course Beast was able to gather Mutant DNA, he lives in a mansion full of em (sorry, couldn't help it) if Lex is such a master at the art of genetic warfare, he's had Superman's DNA on countless occasions, why has he never performed this attack on him? And I still don't believe this virus would have any affect on Wolverine at all. "

Reread Endangered Species, Beast got samples from more than just the mutants in the mansion (though Lex could find mutants too). When did I say he was a master? I said he had experience with it. This is not the method I would say is Luthor's best bet, but it was brought up and I think he could do it, so I'm defending it. As for Superman, he's had problems with Kryptonian DNA, and I'm pretty sure he's tried but Superman's Superness (tech, other people, writing) saved him. It doesn't need to affect Wolverine (though if he were successful in creating something that attacked mutant DNA, I think it might since his healing comes from his mutant powers, well, that was before...) for him to win. Why does he have to use a virus for it to count? He could chuck him into space or drop him in an ocean or something.

King of Kings says:

"Why not just say he uses his government contacts and Nukes the Institute?"

I thought about saying that... but it seemed too much overkill

M

Post Deleted.

Ya know what, you guys convinced me. I actually think with two weeks prep time, Luthor could find a way to take out the X-Men.

King of Kings says:

"First, let me start by saying, clearly this isnt the curb stump I believed it was at the beginning. Lex has a few tricks up his sleeve. But with that said, I still don't see Lex created a virus in two weeks. Even if he did, how would he use it? He's just gonna release a virus he never tested into the air? And if they see him coming he's done before he even gets a chance. First it was a virus that would kill only mutants, and now its a virus that only attacks there powers? Why not just say he uses his government contacts and Nukes the Institute?I never got into the ways he could or would take out Logan, only that I don't believe a virus would have any affect on him.
Post Edited:2007-11-07 05:31:39"

You are so stuck on that stupid virus. Anyway, when did it change from a virus that would kill only mutants to a virus that only attacks their powers? I went into it thinking about a virus that acted on them by shutting down the x-gene (which would, in the case of wolverine, take away his healing ability) and then killing the person who carried it. The virus never changed in my mind. He could nuke the institute, but you were focused on the virus so I was going with that.

? First, I deleted that post and try'd to agree with ya, but okay, I'll play your game. I was responding to Methos's post about biological warfare. He was the one who brought up the virus. In his posts, the virus didn't affect there powers or there mutation, it simply killed. Your virus, focused on shutting down there X-Gene and killing them, two different virus's.

The nuke was a joke. Like the United States government is going to allow some bald guy from another Universe to walk in, claiming to be someone important and hand him the launch codes? WTF? Thats another thing, were does this battle take place? You said he would have access to other mutants, so I'm assuming its in the Marvel U (where his contacts mean jack)

Wouldn't a more likely scenrio by, he starts researching mutants, and words like Registration, Sentinel, Stryker, Magneto, Decimation M, Genoshia, and 198 keep showing up. Wouldn't it be more likely he finds out about Wanda and the No more Mutants episode and thus tries to use her?

King of Kings says:

"? First, I deleted that post and try'd to agree with ya, but okay, I'll play your game. I was responding to Methos's post about biological warfare. He was the one who brought up the virus. In his posts, the virus didn't affect there powers or there mutation, it simply killed. Your virus, focused on shutting down there X-Gene and killing them, two different virus's."

Game? I was typing while you posted, I didn't see what you wrote until I after I posted. Wouldn't have mattered though, I was responding to your statement. And does it matter what kind of virus it is? Methos talked about "creating a nanotech virus to attack only mutations". Is that so different from a virus that finds the x-gene (a mutation) and destroys it and the carrier?

King of Kings says:

"The nuke was a joke. Like the United States government is going to allow some bald guy from another Universe to walk in, claiming to be someone important and hand him the launch codes? WTF? Thats another thing, were does this battle take place? You said he would have access to other mutants, so I'm assuming its in the Marvel U (where his contacts mean jack)"

May have been a joke, but he could do it. And I really don't think it's Lex vs the X-Men + the US Government. Plus, he probably has his own WMDs. As for where it takes place, I thought it would have to be a hypothetical DC/Marvel Universe where everything that existed in one before, exists simultaneously. The same way we can have Flash fight Marvel guys when there's no Marvel Speed Force, or how we generally don't talk about magic from Marvel not being a valid weapon against Superman since he should be immune to magic from other dimensions like SBP was. It's fiction. Pretend.

King of Kings says:

"Wouldn't a more likely scenrio by, he starts researching mutants, and words like Registration, Sentinel, Stryker, Magneto, Decimation M, Genoshia, and 198 keep showing up. Wouldn't it be more likely he finds out about Wanda and the **No more Mutants** episode and thus tries to use her?"

I was just going by my own take on the virus scenario you and methos thought up. You didn't mention any of that before so it didn't play a part.

1. Yes, one killed, while the other stripped powers and killed. Its a big difference. Would a virus have any affect on Iceman? I'm guessing thats why you went with thee virus attacking there X-Gene, which I still don't see how he gets his hands on a sample of mutant DNA, maybe what you read in Endangered Species could help me out there.

2. Ohhh, I've never operated on the dual Universe system. But even so, the Sentinels outside the Institute would pick up a nuke well before it ever got into range. They could shoot it down, or give the X-Men a heads up and they would go down into the sub levels.

3. Well its brought up now.

ok, i didn't mean to start all this lol

M

I think the biggest threat would be Kitty. If she wanted to kill him she could turn intangible and phase shift a tree branch in his head.
Post Edited:2007-11-07 06:14:29

King of Kings says:

"1. Yes, one killed, while the other stripped powers and killed. Its a big difference. Would a virus have any affect on Iceman? I'm guessing thats why you went with thee virus attacking there X-Gene, which I still don't see how he gets his hands on a sample of mutant DNA, maybe what you read in Endangered Species could help me out there."

Really? What is the big difference? Why does it matter if the first step of one is to destroy the mutant gene? If it just kills then they're dead. If it stops the x-gene first, then they're basically human and can't use any powers to stop the virus anyway, and then they're dead. Iceman is one of those special cases, and he's not on the team anyway. There's plenty of mutant DNA in the remains of Genosha, the places where mutants were tortured/experimented on, in government facilities, etc. He could go to any of these places or just find mutants still living in mutant town or in the Morlock tunnels.

King of Kings says:

"2. Ohhh, I've never operated on the dual Universe system. But even so, the Sentinels outside the Institute would pick up a nuke well before it ever got into range. They could shoot it down, or give the X-Men a heads up and they would go down into the sub levels."

You would have to for a fair amount of cross company fights. Anyway, Lex could teleport (using a machine or a superhuman) nukes inside or just disable the sentinels before attacking. And if he nukes them at the start of the actual fight (not before), then there are no sentinels anyway.

King of Kings says:

"3. Well its brought up now."

If he's so intent on going the virus route which is the basis of this part of the discussion, why would any of this matter? What about the Registration would change how he came up with a virus? Also, since Wanda has no clue (or claims not to) about who she is, she wouldn't be much help. Plus, she's a lot less predictable than some DNA on a slide. Why would he use something living if DNA is easier and safer to get?

LegendaryKYJ says:

"I think the biggest threat would be Kitty. If she wanted to kill him she could turn intangible and phase shift a tree branch in his head.
Post Edited:2007-11-07 06:14:29"

Since when does Kitty fly? Lex in his suit is flight capable. Anyway, I threw out some ways he could get rid of her already.

1. Cause if it only kills, then Wolverine's healing factor can fight it, if it strips there powers then kills em, then his healing factor wouldn't matter.

Registration would matter, cause as you pointed out, DNA is easier then dealing with Wanda, and Registration would be thee easiest route of all, get em rounded up and now he has the Government on his side.

During all this mutant research, no one's going to alert the X-Men that some human has taken a sudden interest in everything mutant? As you pointed out, the Morlocks, wouldnt they send someone to tell the X-Men that a team of humans are digging around Genosha or in there tunnels? Come on.

Plus, can you show me any prove that Lex can research and develop an effective virus? I mean this was already done with the Legacy Virus and they survived that. He cant figure out Superman's DNA but he would automatically be able to figure out the X-Gene? This is almost laughable.
Post Edited:2007-11-07 06:44:38

LegendaryKYJ says:

"I think the biggest threat would be Kitty. If she wanted to kill him she could turn intangible and phase shift a tree branch in his head.
Post Edited:2007-11-07 06:14:29"Since when does Kitty fly? Lex in his suit is flight capable. Anyway, I threw out some ways he could get rid of her already."

She can walk on air molecules, she doesn't need to fly. Lex better be able to hold off the other X men if he doesn't want to be singing "I wish I had a brain"

King of Kings says:

"1. Cause if it only kills, then Wolverine's healing factor can fight it, if it strips there powers then kills em, then his healing factor wouldn't matter."

So it only matters because of Wolverine? Fine, he kills Wolverine another way.

King of Kings says:

"Registration would matter, cause as you pointed out, DNA is easier then dealing with Wanda, and Registration would be thee easiest route of all, get em rounded up and now he has the Government on his side. "

Registration deals with people who are alive and can choose to do whatever they want. Orchestrating something like that would be hard for the same reason dealing with Wanda would be hard. To may variables when dealing with living thinking creatures. Besides, he's not going to supplant the government in two weeks.

King of Kings says:

"During all this mutant research, no one's going to alert the X-Men that some human has taken a sudden interest in everything mutant? As you pointed out, the Morlocks are going to send someone to tell the X-Men that a team of humans are digging around Genosha or in there tunnels? Come on."

It's called one-sided prep.

King of Kings says:

"Plus, can you show me any prove that Lex can research and develop an effective virus? I mean this was already done with the Legacy Virus and they survived that. He cant figure out Superman's DNA but he would automatically be able to figure out the X-Gene? This is almost laughable."

Alien DNA is something totally different from mutant DNA. Mutant DNA is human DNA with a twist, while alien DNA is something else entirely. Of course I can't prove without a doubt that he can whip up a virus, he hasn't done it yet, but I do think him being able to take normal humans and alter their genetic code to give them powers (showing his knowledge of superhuman genetics) along with his established genius, vast resources, and advanced technology make it plausible. And the mutants survived the Legacy virus because they had Beast and time. They have neither in this fight.

LegendaryKYJ says:

"She can walk on air molecules, she doesn't need to fly. Lex better be able to hold off the other X men if he doesn't want to be singing "I wish I had a brain""

Walking is not as fast as flying. She'd never touch him. And that's ignoring what I already said about how he could take her out of the fight.

Why wouldn't they have Beast? He's on the team.

Emma Frost, Cyclops, Shadowcat, Beast, Colossus, Wolverine, and Armor

And what other way? Wolverine isn't just going to let Luthor kill him you know. Like its that easy, haven't you been paying attention to Wolverine for the last two years?

Forgot they had Beast. Oh wait, it doesn't matter. He's not going to have time (or a lab) to sit down and figure out a virus. Lex has prep, the X-Men don't.

Haven't you been paying attention? He dies easy, it's just that he won't stop coming back. Lex could toss him in the sun or the ocean (I like those two) and if/when he comes back, the battle will have already finished.

Actually, he doesn't die, he comes right back. That scan you keep showing of him being tossed in the molten pot shows that.

And again, how fast does this virus kill? It doesn't really matter, since its a fabricated virus in a made up scenario, you could make it as lethal as you wanted to, correct? In which case this is pointless. There's nothing I can say thats gonna change your mind.

He doesn't come right back. It's explained that he dies, fights the angel of death, then comes back to life (after healing) if he wins. Wasn't instantaneous if after Nitro, it was measured as some good amount of time (I wanna say hours) when he died in the Helicarrier, and it's not instant in the scans you're talking about either. His hand comes up out of the molten junk but he doesn't just pop out and start slashing. The scene is changed and he doesn't reappear until later that night. And his rate of healing doesn't matter if he's physically displaced.

So Nitro stood around for hours after he burned Wolverine up? Thats weak. Anyway, it doesn't change anything.

Buckshot says:

" She can walk on air molecules, she doesn't need to fly. Lex better be able to hold off the other X men if he doesn't want to be singing "I wish I had a brain""

Of course he <i>could</i> perform said attack, but he's not fighting a bunch of chumps. Not only did more then half of the X-roster grow up with each other, Lex is fighting a team that have been psychically linked to train for what seems like months in mere hours. Like I said, to say it's a curb stomp is a huge underestimation of the X-Team. Lex would need to modify his battle suit to keep from malfunctioning if Kitty was to phase shift through it, make himself immune to Emmas psychic attacks, learn to adapt and fight cyclops should he decide to take his visor off and give Lex an entire dose of optic blast, fend off the annoyance of Lockheed, and withstand Wolvies adamentium assault should Colossus decide to fastball special.

I'm done.

King of Kings says:

"So Nitro stood around for hours after he burned Wolverine up? Thats weak. Anyway, it doesn't change anything."

Wasn't hours, but it wasn't instant either.

LegendaryKYJ says:

"Of course he could perform said attack, but he's not fighting a bunch of chumps."

So they would need to be chumps for powerful sound based attacks to work on Kitty? Didn't know that.

LegendaryKYJ says:

"Not only did more then half of the X-roster grow up with each other, Lex is fighting a team that have been psychically linked to train for what seems like months in mere hours."

So? They've never trained to fight Lex Luthor before.

LegendaryKYJ says:

"Like I said, to say it's a curb stomp is a huge underestimation of the X-Team. Lex would need to modify his battle suit to keep from malfunctioning if Kitty was to phase shift through it, make himself immune to Emmas psychic attacks, learn to adapt and fight cyclops should he decide to take his visor off and give Lex an entire dose of optic blast, fend off the annoyance of Lockheed, and withstand Wolvies adamentium assault should Colossus decide to fastball special."

Already addressed Kitty. And Emma. And Cyclops. Lockheed dies quickly. You really think Lex can't dodge a fastball special?

Buckshot says: So they would need to be chumps for powerful sound based attacks to work on Kitty? Didn't know that. LegendaryKYJ says:

"Not only did more then half of the X-roster grow up with each other, Lex is fighting a team that have been psychically linked to train for what seems like months in mere hours."

"Like I said, to say it's a curb stomp is a huge underestimation of the X-Team. Lex would need to modify his battle suit to keep from malfunctioning if Kitty was to phase shift through it, make himself immune to Emmas psychic attacks, learn to adapt and fight cyclops should he decide to take his visor off and give Lex an entire dose of optic blast, fend off the annoyance of Lockheed, and withstand Wolvies adamentium assault should Colossus decide to fastball special. "

LegendaryKYJ says:

"Actually you insinuated Lex making a Virus from thin air that would only attack beings with the X-gene. Two weeks is hardly enough time to learn about the X-team (and their teamwork, no matter how you think they would be sized up like ordinary street thugs), learn about the biology of the X-gene, and make some bogus virus to make them human. How would Lex dodge any of their attacks since they coordinate so well? You didn't address anything, you implied Lex wiping out the X-team with biological warfare. How is Kitty going to be harmed by said sound if she's underground? If Lex takes to the sky, all Cyke has to do is open his eyes, problem solved. Lex lands on the floor, he's phase shifted into the ground, problem solved. It's plausible for Lex to win (the whole reason I agreed he could, what you're suggesting is him actually going to battle with the X-men, laughable) because with two weeks of prep time he could build a bomb, meet the X-men, teleport the bomb in his location, and port away from the blast. THAT is plausible, not "well Lex might be able to render the X-gene useless," bull!
Post Edited:2007-11-07 08:42:36"

The virus thing was just something I was playing with. If you'll look at my first post you'll see what I'm talking about. For Kitty I suggested sound or light based weapons (since she still sees and hears while phased) as a start. He can probably make other weapons to hurt her when phased, but that should do. And if she goes underground, she takes herself out of the fight. If he's flying and she's underground, he's fine. Lex's suit can take Superman's beams and his punches. Unless you're saying that Cyclops' vision hits harder than Superman, there's nothing more we need to hear about Scott. I think I wrote something about Emma as well. Before you go telling me what I have and have not said, please make sure you've read it. He can face them in battle just as easily as he can bomb them.

Buckshot says:

"LegendaryKYJ says:

"Actually you insinuated Lex making a Virus from thin air that would only attack beings with the X-gene. Two weeks is hardly enough time to learn about the X-team (and their teamwork, no matter how you think they would be sized up like ordinary street thugs), learn about the biology of the X-gene, and make some bogus virus to make them human. How would Lex dodge any of their attacks since they coordinate so well? You didn't address anything, you implied Lex wiping out the X-team with biological warfare. How is Kitty going to be harmed by said sound if she's underground? If Lex takes to the sky, all Cyke has to do is open his eyes, problem solved. Lex lands on the floor, he's phase shifted into the ground, problem solved. It's plausible for Lex to win (the whole reason I agreed he could, what you're suggesting is him actually going to battle with the X-men, laughable) because with two weeks of prep time he could build a bomb, meet the X-men, teleport the bomb in his location, and port away from the blast. THAT is plausible, not "well Lex might be able to render the X-gene useless," bull!
Post Edited:2007-11-07 08:42:36"

The virus thing was just something I was playing with. If you'll look at my first post you'll see what I'm talking about. For Kitty I suggested sound or light based weapons (since she still sees and hears while phased) as a start. He can probably make other weapons to hurt her when phased, but that should do. And if she goes underground, she takes herself out of the fight. If he's flying and she's underground, he's fine. Lex's suit can take Superman's beams and his punches. Unless you're saying that Cyclops' vision hits harder than Superman, there's nothing more we need to hear about Scott. I think I wrote something about Emma as well. Before you go telling me what I have and have not said, please make sure you've read it. He can face them in battle just as easily as he can bomb them. "

Cyclops's power isn't heat based, it's concussion based. You don't think his beams at full power could harm Lex? "Could punch a hole through a mountain," that hyperbole doesn't even do him justice since he's never really used his blasts at full power. I did read what you wrote, you made a fallicious comparison between Emma, WW, JLU, and the X-Men. MM has a lot of psychic capabilities (some of which even surpass Prof. X) but it hardly compares to the OFFENSIVE power that Emma and Professor X have, especially if they're together. MM can turn intangible, has he ever phase shifted another being into solid concrete or wood? Can his armor withstand being cut by adamentium?

LegendaryKYJ says:

"Cyclops's power isn't heat based, it's concussion based. You don't think his beams at full power could harm Lex? "Could punch a hole through a mountain," that hyperbole doesn't even do him justice since he's never really used his blasts at full power. I did read what you wrote, you made a fallicious comparison between Emma, WW, JLU, and the X-Men. MM has a lot of psychic capabilities (some of which even surpass Prof. X) but it hardly compares to the OFFENSIVE power that Emma and Professor X have, especially if they're together. MM can turn intangible, has he ever phase shifted another being into solid concrete or wood? Can his armor withstand being cut by adamentium?"

I know it's a beam of concussive force, which is why when I compared it to Superman I mentioned his heat vision and his physical blows. Cyke can "punch a hole through a mountain" while Superman can (and did) "punch a hole through a moon". Which requires more force? Of course then we get into the thing Forever and I frequently bump into with "how can you tell how hard someone is hitting", and while I don't believe Superman uses his planet crushing strength against Lex, I still think he hits harder than Cyclops' beams on average. What fallacious comparison did I make? When did I mention WW? Or the JLU? Are you making stuff up now? I didn't compare Emma to WW, I said that Lex has faced off against the JLA, which includes Martian Manhunter and Aquaman, two telepaths and not been overrun by their powers. He's also allied with people like Grodd before and has made devices to protect him from mind control. I'm simply saying that he can do it again. And what do you mean by "it hardly compares to the OFFENSIVE power that Emma and Professor X have" and why is Professor X included at all? He's not on the Astonishing team as specified by the OP. I was using MM to compare psychic abilities, not phasing, because the way he phases, though similar in some ways to Kitty's, is not the same. But to answer your question anyway, I can't recall him phasing someone into something. I think Lex's armor and force fields could protect him from adamantium unless there was sufficient force (like a fastball special, which I think he could avoid anyway) behind it. I don't think Wolverine could slash him up with help, but I don't see how he'd get the chance anyway unless Lex chose to stay on the ground and in his range, something I don't see him doing. On the ground leaves him open to Kitty, Beast, Colossus, Wolverine, Diamond Emma and Armor. In the air, only Emma, Cyclops, and a FBS have a hope of harming him. It makes a lot more sense for him to attack from the air.

Still going strong I see.

Goooooooooooooooood Morning Gambler! I'll be heading to class in less than an hour, had to get this in.

Its a nice post.

Thanks.

Wow, still going....

Yup yup

Terminal Velocity says:

"I'm on page 3 and i'm gonna skip alot of posts and just say, if Lex had the prep time, he'd abduct a few mutants (non x-men mutants) and perform experements on them. He's not a nice guy he would let them die to further his research into his new enemy.Then when he has found a way to isolate the x-gene he will be able to create his nano virus or whatever you want.I doubt beast could cure a nano virus, the closest to doing that would be forge, because they are technology, not biology."

shakes head this debate is sooooo far past that stage man.

I'm on page 3 and i'm gonna skip alot of posts and just say, if Lex had the prep time, he'd abduct a few mutants (non x-men mutants) and perform experements on them. He's not a nice guy he would let them die to further his research into his new enemy.

Then when he has found a way to isolate the x-gene he will be able to create his nano virus or whatever you want.

I doubt beast could cure a nano virus, the closest to doing that would be forge, because they are technology, not biology.

Methos says:

"Terminal Velocity says:

"I'm on page 3 and i'm gonna skip alot of posts and just say, if Lex had the prep time, he'd abduct a few mutants (non x-men mutants) and perform experements on them. He's not a nice guy he would let them die to further his research into his new enemy.Then when he has found a way to isolate the x-gene he will be able to create his nano virus or whatever you want.I doubt beast could cure a nano virus, the closest to doing that would be forge, because they are technology, not biology."

yeah... sorry...

i got a bit carried away with the science

M"

It was good stuff though.

Terminal Velocity says:

"I'm on page 3 and i'm gonna skip alot of posts and just say, if Lex had the prep time, he'd abduct a few mutants (non x-men mutants) and perform experements on them. He's not a nice guy he would let them die to further his research into his new enemy.Then when he has found a way to isolate the x-gene he will be able to create his nano virus or whatever you want.I doubt beast could cure a nano virus, the closest to doing that would be forge, because they are technology, not biology."

yeah... sorry...

i got a bit carried away with the science

M

scary stuff... the more i researched it and found out how much of it was "now" technology, the more afraid i am of it lol

M

I didnt see this thread until now. I see why Buck was falling fanboy for himself.

Buckshot says:

"LegendaryKYJ says:

" Cyclops's power isn't heat based, it's concussion based. You don't think his beams at full power could harm Lex? "Could punch a hole through a mountain," that hyperbole doesn't even do him justice since he's never really used his blasts at full power. I did read what you wrote, you made a fallicious comparison between Emma, WW, JLU, and the X-Men. MM has a lot of psychic capabilities (some of which even surpass Prof. X) but it hardly compares to the OFFENSIVE power that Emma and Professor X have, especially if they're together. MM can turn intangible, has he ever phase shifted another being into solid concrete or wood? Can his armor withstand being cut by adamentium?"

I know it's a beam of concussive force, which is why when I compared it to Superman I mentioned his heat vision *and* his physical blows. Cyke can "punch a hole through a mountain" while Superman can (and did) "punch a hole through a moon". Which requires more force? Of course then we get into the thing Forever and I frequently bump into with "how can you tell how hard someone is hitting", and while I don't believe Superman uses his planet crushing strength against Lex, I still think he hits harder than Cyclops' beams on average. What fallacious comparison did I make? When did I mention WW? Or the JLU? Are you making stuff up now? I didn't compare Emma to WW, I said that Lex has faced off against the JLA, which includes Martian Manhunter and Aquaman, two telepaths and not been overrun by their powers. He's also allied with people like Grodd before and has made devices to protect him from mind control. I'm simply saying that he can do it again. And what do you mean by "it hardly compares to the OFFENSIVE power that Emma and Professor X have" and why is Professor X included at all? He's not on the Astonishing team as specified by the OP. I was using MM to compare psychic abilities, not phasing, because the way he phases, though similar in some ways to Kitty's, is not the same. But to answer your question anyway, I can't recall him phasing someone into something. I think Lex's armor and force fields could protect him from adamantium unless there was sufficient force (like a fastball special, which I think he could avoid anyway) behind it. I don't think Wolverine could slash him up with help, but I don't see how he'd get the chance anyway unless Lex chose to stay on the ground and in his range, something I don't see him doing. On the ground leaves him open to Kitty, Beast, Colossus, Wolverine, Diamond Emma and Armor. In the air, only Emma, Cyclops, and a FBS have a hope of harming him. It makes a lot more sense for him to attack from the air. "

LegendaryKYJ says:

"I didn't make up squat, I went by what you wrote on the first page."

You mentioned at least two things I never brought up (WW and JLU) and used other things incorrectly (MM as an example of phasing when I was talking about psychic power). I didn't see any of that in my posts on the first page.

LegendaryKYJ says:

"You suggested since Aquaman has telepathic powers he would be just another psychic, but it wouldn't be that easy since we're not talking about two telepaths that talk to fish, THAT is a logical fallacy called a strawman argument. "

First, Aquaman has used his abilities on humans, and I also mentioned Martian Manhunter and Grodd. Lex has at least rudimentary defenses for the psychic powers of these three (and probably other psychics). What I'm saying is, if he can create something to protect his mind from them, why can't he do it again (or just use the same stuff) to deal with Emma?

LegendaryKYJ says:

"You also said Lex took on the JLA in his suit, suggesting that would suffice for a concrete reason why he could beat the X-men, entirely different powers with hardly a sufficient amount of time to prepare (Lex would still win, but not in a brawl)."

When I talked about the suit it was in response to attacks coming from Cyclops. Where did I suggest that because he can take on the JLA he can take on the X-Men solely because of the suit? I think he could take most of them out without using most of his prep time and just going off what he already has. Specialized weapons for Kitty, psychic defenses for Emma, extremely powerful lasers or explosives for Beast, Cyclops, Armor, Colossus, and Emma (if diamond). Any who survive can be teleported into space or something.

LegendaryKYJ says:

"Yeah, Superman flew through a moon, did you know the biggest moon on Saturn is a FOURTH the size of Earth? Cykes blasts haven't even been fully measured, when he was hitting Juggernaut with the full force of his beams he made a comparison of the power he was using being enough to pulverize a small planet. That kind of power would keep Lex out of the air."

One fourth the size of Earth is still bigger than a mountain, my man. Has Cyclops pulverized a small planet before? How would he know what his blasts would do to a planet? Any real evidence to support his statement?

LegendaryKYJ says:

"Additionally, Prof X IS on the Astonishing team since the vines roster is outdated."

I didn't see Xavier up in space with the rest of the team of Astonishing X-Men. Did you? Regardless, the OP chose to use the team that was on that page when he posted. If Xavier wasn't on that team then, then he's not in the fight now.

LegendaryKYJ says:

"If you want to go by specifics maybe we should go by what we see in the pictures as well, Lex in his buisness suit breaking chains against a field responsive X-team? Dude, there is no way his technology could prevent a psychic onslaught from two of the most powerful telepaths in the Marvel U.
Post Edited:2007-11-08 03:36:26"

First, I'm just going by what the OP stated. Second, there's only one telepath on the team Shazam specified. And third, MM is a better telepath than Xavier and Emma. If Lex can protect himself from MM, I think he can handle Xavier. If Tony Stark can make psychic shields (he has), so can Lex.

BANG

You just got buckshot.

thats a hideous amount of ownage in one post...

possibly the best i've seen in months :D

M

You got to admit when buck wants to put you down, You got two choices argue and look like a fool, Or put up your hands and say "yep yep I was wrong sorry guys"

Its so beautiful. The trick is to never give him that much ammunition to use against you. You better bring your A game son, and your A game better be top notch.