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#1 Posted by IZZR (4289 posts) - - Show Bio

Vs.

 

Rules

  • Random encounter
  • Start 50 ft apart
  • Standard equipment (2 handguns each, 1 hunting knife, 2 handgranades)
  • Morals off
  • Bloodlusted

Location: Outside Diner

#2 Posted by IZZR (4289 posts) - - Show Bio

bump

#3 Posted by Carter_esque (6447 posts) - - Show Bio

Agent 47 stomps

#4 Edited by russellmania77 (14570 posts) - - Show Bio

Leon beat giganties, agent 47 wouldn't stand a chance

#5 Posted by MrPhoenix (312 posts) - - Show Bio

Leon has taken on zombie hordes,Giants and all manner of powerful creatures. To believe that agent 47 has any chance is a joke.

#6 Posted by Carter_esque (6447 posts) - - Show Bio

Leon has taken on zombie hordes,Giants and all manner of powerful creatures. To believe that agent 47 has any chance is a joke.

Leon beat giganties, agent 47 wouldn't stand a chance

We're not talking about supernatural mediums (most of which can't reason like human beings) here. We're talking about one of the most calculating killers in video game history. Both are very skilled but 47 is more experienced and ruthless. He's performed hundreds of contract killings efficiently without hesitation. Plus, who's to say that he wouldn't have survived all of those same horrific scenarios that Leon had been placed in?

#7 Posted by russellmania77 (14570 posts) - - Show Bio

@carter_esque: he wouldn't, he wouldn't have survived raccoon city, none the less super humanoid monsters that can use weapons

#8 Posted by jimmy11 (171 posts) - - Show Bio

Mr. 47

#9 Posted by KiD_iNSaNitY (16 posts) - - Show Bio

Leon....He's damn near superhuman based of some of his feats and the shit he manages to pull off.

#10 Posted by Carter_esque (6447 posts) - - Show Bio

@carter_esque: he wouldn't, he wouldn't have survived raccoon city, none the less super humanoid monsters that can use weapons

What are you basing your assumption off of exactly? The fact that 47 hasn't proven that he can take on supernatural threats? Or is it that you simply believe that Leon is that much better a combatant than 47? Leon's feats against monsters don't give him any kind of edge in a fight with a living, breathing assassin who's very capable of killing him.

#11 Posted by russellmania77 (14570 posts) - - Show Bio

@carter_esque: feats over assumptions. Giganties>>>>>>>>>>>>>>humans

#12 Edited by MrPhoenix (312 posts) - - Show Bio

@carter_esque: Perhaps if Leon was caught unaware its possible he could be killed, but in a face off? no way, and i'm not doubting the skill of Agent 47, but he hasn't accomplished anything close to what Leon has, i don't think he would last 5 minutes.

#13 Posted by SheenLantern (6223 posts) - - Show Bio

Hitman wins.

Point Shooting would mean an instant win.

Online
#14 Posted by Carter_esque (6447 posts) - - Show Bio

@carter_esque: Perhaps if Leon was caught unaware its possible he could be killed, but in a face off? no way, and i'm not doubting the skill of Agent 47, but he hasn't accomplished anything close to what Leon has, i don't think he would last 5 minutes.

How can Leon's monster-killing feats possibly help him in this battle?

#15 Posted by Carter_esque (6447 posts) - - Show Bio

Hitman wins.

Point Shooting would mean an instant win.

Finally! a logical answer.

@carter_esque: feats over assumptions. Giganties>>>>>>>>>>>>>>humans

Naw it's actually more like this:

Profound logic>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>ABC logic. Giganties>>>>>>>>>>>>>>humans -- Doesn't help Leon at all in a gunfight with another human who's just as skilled (if not more) than he is.

If you're picking the winner based off feats in this particular battle then I think you're goin' about it all wrong. Claiming that 47 "can't" kill supernatural enemies just bc he's part of a game series that excludes them isn't really fair. We don't that he couldn't survive and we probably never will unless the developers of the Hitman games decide to make some major changes in the future. Leon is still just a high end paragon of a human going against another who's in the same class. It could really go either way but I'm goin' with 47 bc he's a more hardened killer of his own species -- something that Leon isn't..

#16 Edited by russellmania77 (14570 posts) - - Show Bio

@carter_esque: ok so ur choosing agent 47 cuz he is a killer? Mkay whatever. It's not like Leon has never gone foot with a high class assassin and not win (jack krauser???)

#17 Posted by NeonGameWave (7700 posts) - - Show Bio

Leon takes him down with an awesome strategy and due to his sharp shooting keeps him at bay for a good enough time to formulate a countermeasure.

#18 Posted by Carter_esque (6447 posts) - - Show Bio

@carter_esque: ok so ur choosing agent 47 cuz he is a killer? Mkay whatever. It's not like Leon has never gone foot with a high class assassin and not win (jack krauser???)

No, I'm choosing 47 bc I think he's better combatant. Krauser was tough and I'm definitely not taking that away from him seeing as how his boss battle made wanna throw my PS2 controller at my tv screen after the many, many times I lost to him... but he's no 47. I'm assuming you've played the Hitman games as well?

#19 Posted by DeathByAnts (400 posts) - - Show Bio

Agent 47 stomps

Leon was a rookie force member before the outbreak and has gained experience in killing undead/infected enemies. 47 is a genetically manufactured assassin who specializes in killing humans. There is literally nothing different from Leon being just another target.

#20 Edited by russellmania77 (14570 posts) - - Show Bio
#21 Posted by Carter_esque (6447 posts) - - Show Bio

It's a good battle featuring two great characters but I think that 47 has this due to his experience factor.

#22 Edited by jojjimbo (2472 posts) - - Show Bio

Leon wins.

#23 Edited by MrPhoenix (312 posts) - - Show Bio

@carter_esque: I used feats because its shows Leon can handle, and adapt to almost any situation, I would venture a guess that Leon has better training, and as for this point shooting,Leon is known to be a great marksman with his handgun.

I know Agent 47 is the best at what he does but i don't think he can take this, but that's just my opinion.

#24 Posted by Pr0metheus (4942 posts) - - Show Bio

Leon should win because he has more high end feats but he never really has to kill humans. I never played resident evil 4 (I watched someone else play it a while back) But i dont remember him having to kill humans. I know if they both were aiming at each other would Leon pull the trigger without hesitation? 47 wouldn't hesitate a second to shoot if he had a chance. Can you prove that Leon would shoot without hesitation? 47 Is a Engineered clone. He is a peak psychical human. He was born with other sets of clones and these clones were already smart,He was shown to be much smarter then the rest. Even if Leon has 47 outclassed in gunskill,47 is trained to adapt and calculate all options. I believe 47 to be smarter (IMO) and much more ruthless.

Online
#25 Edited by DeathByAnts (400 posts) - - Show Bio

Leon cannot win this fight


Leon's feats prove one thing: that he can kill undead,Infected,Monsters...etc 100% more efficiently than 47.

47's feats prove one thing: that he can kill Mercenaries, Soldiers, Assassins ..etc 100% more efficiently than Leon.

47 was genetically created to kill people like Leon S Kennedy. On top of this 47's point shooting is an instant win.

People don't know anything about 47.

#26 Posted by sync1 (2823 posts) - - Show Bio

@deathbyants: You realize that Leon has shown feats of h2h combat? He also has speed advantage.

He has shown to be on par with Chris, good in knife fights, etc. His marksmanship is amazing. He can very much win this.

#27 Posted by MrPhoenix (312 posts) - - Show Bio

@deathbyants: Leon took on a small army of infected soldiers which were considerably more effective than normal humans, Leon is generally good at killing, he has had the best training the world has to offer, he is an extremely gifted marksman, a master of acrobatics and hand to hand combat, he is also very intelligent.

Also Leon used to be a soldier with Krauser before he was the right hand of the president, he would have killed many humans.

#28 Posted by JinSlayerX (129 posts) - - Show Bio

^ Exactly. RE4 Leon would stomp. Damnation and Degeneration Leon murderstomps

JSX

#29 Posted by russellmania77 (14570 posts) - - Show Bio

@deathbyants: your forgetting jack krauser isn't just an undead person, he is an elite assassin with super powers to add on, not taking anything away from his knowledge and skill, so he was basically made to kill humans like agent 47 but a lot more powerful n Leon still won

#30 Edited by Carter_esque (6447 posts) - - Show Bio

@deathbyants said:

Leon cannot win this fight

Leon's feats prove one thing: that he can kill undead,Infected,Monsters...etc 100% more efficiently than 47.

47's feats prove one thing: that he can kill Mercenaries, Soldiers, Assassins ..etc 100% more efficiently than Leon.

47 was genetically created to kill people like Leon S Kennedy. On top of this 47's point shooting is an instant win.

People don't know anything about 47. -- That's basically what it boils down to lol

@mr_ingenuity: I know you're a Hitman fan but you're still able to make unbiased judgments, which is apparently something that RE fanboys can't seem to do. Who do you think wins this?

#31 Edited by Carter_esque (6447 posts) - - Show Bio

@sync1 said:

@deathbyants: You realize that Leon has shown feats of h2h combat? He also has speed advantage.

He has shown to be on par with Chris,

Using other RE characters as a template doesn't help your argument one bit. Chris would probably get his ass slapped by 47 too.

good in knife fights,

47 has a proven mastery of all types of firearms and melee weapons.

etc. His marksmanship is amazing.

47 has "point-shooting". Doesn't get anymore accurate than that. Do you know anything about 47?

He can very much win this.

Maybe so, it's pretty close. I think 47's experience will help him though.

#32 Posted by OhItsThatGuy (791 posts) - - Show Bio

Leon's killed several Tyrants in his career. This guy is not a threat.

#33 Posted by MrPhoenix (312 posts) - - Show Bio

@deathbyants: 47 was genetically created to kill people like Leon S Kennedy?

He has never met anyone like Leon. Ever.

#34 Posted by KiD_iNSaNitY (16 posts) - - Show Bio

Leon is very smart he can adopt to any and all situations his survival rating is through the roof and he has faced humans/monsters all types of shit...47 is just some assassin to him and I would go out on a limb and say he is more agile then 47 also. 47 is great in stealth when his targets don't know he's there but in a face to face I would give it to Leon..If they were to switch rolls in there respected games Leon would do fine...Can't say the same for Agent tho.

#35 Posted by MrPhoenix (312 posts) - - Show Bio

@kid_insanity: Very true, Agent 47 would have died in the laser grid in Resi 4, let alone the rest.

#36 Posted by Carter_esque (6447 posts) - - Show Bio

Leon's killed several Tyrants in his career. This guy is not a threat.

Monster-killing feats aren't going to help him in this fight so your point is invalid..

@deathbyants: 47 was genetically created to kill people like Leon S Kennedy?

He has never met anyone like Leon. Ever.

And vice-versa

Leon is very smart he can adopt to any and all situations his survival rating is through the roof and he has faced humans/monsters all types of shit...47 is just some assassin to him and I would go out on a limb and say he is more agile then 47 also. 47 is great in stealth when his targets don't know he's there but in a face to face I would give it to Leon..If they were to switch rolls in there respected games Leon would do fine

-- How could you even know that. No, you just want to believe that Leon would do fine if their "roles" were reversed. You don't really know what would happen if Leon had to take on armed human assailants bc he's never had to do it; truthfully, he might get murked. He's more agile than 47 but that's about the only clear advantage he has. Could 47 thrive against supernatural assailants? Who really knows but saying that "he can't" with no knowledge to support the claim is a biased assessment.

...Can't say the same for Agent tho.

Exactly, you can't just like you can't say that Leon would fair any better against the threats that 47 has had to face..

@deathbyants: Leon took on a small army of infected soldiers which were considerably more effective than normal humans, Leon is generally good at killing, he has had the best training the world has to offer, he is an extremely gifted marksman, a master of acrobatics and hand to hand combat, he is also very intelligent.

Also Leon used to be a soldier with Krauser before he was the right hand of the president, he would have killed many humans.

{Sigh} Being on the Secret Service detail doesn't doesn't include killing anyone. They protect the pres... that's it.

#37 Posted by MrPhoenix (312 posts) - - Show Bio

(sigh)..that's not what i'm saying, if you read it properly, it clearly says he was a soldier that had to kill..before he became the presidents aid.

#38 Edited by Carter_esque (6447 posts) - - Show Bio

@mrphoenix said:

(sigh)..that's not what i'm saying, if you read it properly, it clearly says he was a soldier that had to kill..before he became the presidents aid.

How do you know he killed anyone prior to becoming a Secret Service agent? Unless it was depicted or clearly stated that he took human lives within the canon, it's speculation and is therefore disregarded.

#39 Posted by DeathByAnts (400 posts) - - Show Bio

@sync1 said:

@deathbyants: You realize that Leon has shown feats of h2h combat? He also has speed advantage.

He has shown to be on par with Chris, good in knife fights, etc. His marksmanship is amazing. He can very much win this.

H2H and Speed mean absolutely nothing against 47. Leon isn't fast enough fast enough to dodge a bullet and the fight wont come down to H2H.

@deathbyants: Leon took on a small army of infected soldiers which were considerably more effective than normal humans, Leon is generally good at killing, he has had the best training the world has to offer, he is an extremely gifted marksman, a master of acrobatics and hand to hand combat, he is also very intelligent.

Also Leon used to be a soldier with Krauser before he was the right hand of the president, he would have killed many humans.

Yes, but Leon has absolutely no experience fighting an Assassin, which is exactly what 47 is(the worlds best at that). He could kill 2 armies worth of undead soldiers and still lose to 47 due to lack of experience.

@deathbyants: your forgetting jack krauser isn't just an undead person, he is an elite assassin with super powers to add on, not taking anything away from his knowledge and skill, so he was basically made to kill humans like agent 47 but a lot more powerful n Leon still won

No, Krauser wasn't an assassin at all let alone an "elite" one. Krauser was an elite soldier with everything you just said.

Basically the most likely scenario for this fight is this:

  1. Leon spots 47 and vice versa.
  2. They both take cover.
  3. 47 point shoots from cover and kills Leon behind his cover.
  4. Leon dies

Leon could kill 37 undead armies, and be able to adapt to fights like taskmaster and still lose. Leon could be be the most acrobatic, experienced H2H fighter in the world and still die in the same way. Leon could kill Tyrant 99 times and still lose. Leon cant "react" to something he cant see, he will be dead in the first 10 seconds of the fight. You guys don't realize is that his feats mean nothing in this type of fight.

#40 Edited by MrPhoenix (312 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't see how killing humans is relevant anyway, but ok fine, you don't become a cop if you wouldn't be prepared to kill, or a soldier, or the presidents right hand man, would he always carry a gun if he wouldn't kill, would he be trained to kill if he wouldn't kill, the first guy you kill in Resident evil 4 is a villager, one that Leon didn't even know was infected, and guess what..Leon killed him. If agent 47 is trying to kill him then Leon wouldn't even hesitate.

#41 Edited by Carter_esque (6447 posts) - - Show Bio

@sync1 said:

@deathbyants: You realize that Leon has shown feats of h2h combat? He also has speed advantage.

He has shown to be on par with Chris, good in knife fights, etc. His marksmanship is amazing. He can very much win this.

H2H and Speed mean absolutely nothing against 47. Leon isn't fast enough fast enough to dodge a bullet and the fight wont come down to H2H.

@mrphoenix said:

@deathbyants: Leon took on a small army of infected soldiers which were considerably more effective than normal humans, Leon is generally good at killing, he has had the best training the world has to offer, he is an extremely gifted marksman, a master of acrobatics and hand to hand combat, he is also very intelligent.

Also Leon used to be a soldier with Krauser before he was the right hand of the president, he would have killed many humans.

Yes, but Leon has absolutely no experience fighting an Assassin, which is exactly what 47 is(the worlds best at that). He could kill 2 armies worth of undead soldiers and still lose to 47 due to lack of experience.

@russellmania77 said:

@deathbyants: your forgetting jack krauser isn't just an undead person, he is an elite assassin with super powers to add on, not taking anything away from his knowledge and skill, so he was basically made to kill humans like agent 47 but a lot more powerful n Leon still won

No, Krauser wasn't an assassin at all let alone an "elite" one. Krauser was an elite soldier with everything you just said.

Basically the most likely scenario for this fight is this:

  1. Leon spots 47 and vice versa.
  2. They both take cover.
  3. 47 point shoots from cover and kills Leon behind his cover.
  4. Leon dies

Leon could kill 37 undead armies, and be able to adapt to fights like taskmaster and still lose. Leon could be be the most acrobatic, experienced H2H fighter in the world and still die in the same way. Leon could kill Tyrant 99 times and still lose. Leon cant "react" to something he cant see, he will be dead in the first 10 seconds of the fight. You guys don't realize is that his feats mean nothing in this type of fight.

Brah, that's what I've been trying tell everyone who has brought up his feats from the very beginning of this debate. Smh RE fans are a stubborn bunch though.

#42 Posted by MrPhoenix (312 posts) - - Show Bio

@carter_esque: So are Hitman fans apparently, the only single argument is "point shooting"Leon is also and expert marksman but its not as if Leon is just gonna stick his head up to get shot.

I have played all of the Hitman games and i never found the character that impressive, spent most of my time poisoning peoples drinks and shit, and he would have been killed already if people noticed his bar code.

#43 Posted by Carter_esque (6447 posts) - - Show Bio

@carter_esque: So are Hitman fans apparently, the only single argument is "point shooting"Leon is also and expert marksman but its not as if Leon is just gonna stick his head up to get shot.

I have played all of the Hitman games and i never found the character that impressive, spent most of my time poisoning peoples drinks and shit, and he would have been killed already if people noticed his bar code.

I'm actually a fan of both game series and I've been an RE fan for much much longer. RE 4 is one of my fav. games and I beat it 4 times if that proves anything. I'm just one of those users who can make unbiased decisions about characters which is something that the lot of you other RE fans can't (or won't) seem to do. @deathbyants has made the best case for 47 so read his post.

#44 Posted by MrPhoenix (312 posts) - - Show Bio

@carter_esque: I am a fan of Resident Evil,a lot more than i am a Hitman fan but i will never go into a debate one sided, if i thought Leon would lose with good reason i would say so, i just Don't see Leon losing just because Hitman is an Assassin, in fact i don't see how that is even a valid argument at all.

#45 Edited by ColaNicole (572 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't particularly like Leon that much, and I love the Hitman games, but this is ridiculous. Leon would kick his ass all day long. 47 kills people who aren't expecting him, Leon fights bloodlusted nasties who would tear him limb from limb in seconds. Of course Agent 47 has a chance, but only in the sense that he has a gun and might get off a lucky sh....nah fuck it, Leon wins 10/10.

#46 Edited by Carter_esque (6447 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't particularly like Leon that much, and I love the Hitman games, but this is ridiculous. Leon would kick his ass all day long. 47 kills people who aren't expecting him, Leon fights bloodlusted nasties who would tear him limb from limb in seconds.

-- Again, how do any of you know that 47 wouldn't fair just as well in Leon's world?? This is a weak argument that has absolutely no validity and is entirely built on speculation. For the last time: LEON'S MONSTER KILLING FEATS CANNOT HELP HIM IN "THIS FIGHT".

Of course Agent 47 has a chance, but only in the sense that he has a gun and might get off a lucky sh....nah fuck it, Leon wins 10/10.

-- Based on him killing supernatural creatures, right? I've been shooting down this argument every time it's been brought up so I don't mind doing it repeatedly.

#47 Posted by ColaNicole (572 posts) - - Show Bio

@carter_esque: It's still my opinion. I don't believe for a second Agent 47 has a chance.

#48 Edited by russellmania77 (14570 posts) - - Show Bio

@deathbyants: wow Mkay how bout I use your own logic.

-agent 47 n Leon see each other

-both take cover

-Leon kills agent 47

It doesn't matter how many people agent 47 has killed, it doesn't matter how they mutated 47 to be a killing machine, that is just a daily bases for Leon

#49 Posted by nickzambuto (12919 posts) - - Show Bio

@carter_esque: While I agree with you that Leon killing generally tougher opponents doesn't automatically make him superior to Agent 47, superpowered monsters are still a good indication of his skill level. Over 300,000 citizens of Raccoon City fell to the zombie apocalypse when it was still fresh, but Leon, as a rookie cop on his very first day, took on the entire city after it had already become totally overrun. To give you an idea of how impossible the odds were against him, Leon was one of the 0.004% of Raccoon denizens to survive the incident. Not only that, but he was going up against Lickers, Tyrants, and a giant alligator, while everyone else fell to regular zombies on the city streets. That is a testament to his quickness, both mentally and physically, as well as general talent over everyone else.

You say Leon has only fought mindless monsters and never went against enemies with intelligence - that is completely false. Leon singlehandedly took on an entire army of virally enhanced super soldiers. The Ganado are superior to humans in every conceivable way by miles, and after infiltrating the island of RE4, Leon alone defeated one of the most highly trained special forces groups across the planet (yes the island Ganado were indeed a highly trained army in addition to their physical enhancements. Saddler even implied that he could initiate a hostile takeover of the entire friggin United States of America with them) So in terms of cannon fodder, Leon generally has a much tougher time. However in addition to the grunts, Leon regularly fights against other highly skilled agents, and wins. Guys like Ada, Krauser, and Chris Redfield all have actual FEATS to backup their status as super soldiers. To my knowledge, Agent 47 takes on strictly cannon fodder.

Fights evenly with president Svetlana Belikova, the greatest military instructor of her entire country.

Stalemates Chris Redfield despite being at a physical disadvantage.

Also, in close quarters combat, Leon has a stark advantage against Agent 47.

That being, he is an expert knife fighter.

Enough to fight on even ground with the infamous special forces veteran Jack Krauser, again, despite being at a severe physical disadvantage (Jack Krauser crushed steel in his grasp and moved in a blur)

All these guys have feats of extraordinary skill in addition to their feats of extraordinary physical ability. 47 has never fought someone as good as Ada, Chris, OR Krauser, and he's CERTAINLY never fought someone as good as Leon.

And if this ends up being a shootout instead of fist fight, have no worries, Leon is a 100% certifiable bullet timer. Can the same be said about Agent 47? I think we can both agree that neither of these super soldiers are really going to miss when they shoot each other. They both have more than enough superhuman accuracy to place their bullets right at the other's forehead - the only difference is, Leon has the speed to move out of the way after 47's bullets are fired.

Agent 47 however, doesn't.

#50 Posted by Carter_esque (6447 posts) - - Show Bio

@deathbyants: wow Mkay how bout I use your own logic.

-agent 47 n Leon see each other

-both take cover

-Leon kills agent 47

It doesn't matter how many people agent 47 has killed, it doesn't matter how they mutated 47 to be a killing machine, that is just a daily bases for Leon

This is sensible enough to actually agree with bc this is exactly how the battle could play out or vice versa. I still don't see it goin down like this bc of 47's experience advantage but this a much better argument than the "Leon stomps bc he's killed monsters and zombies" debate.