Legion vs. Raven

Battle of telepaths. Who wins?

@Killemall: Does Raven even have any notable telepathy feats?

@Killemall: Disappointing. Legion wins.

@Illuminatus said:

@Killemall: Disappointing. Legion wins.

Yeah fairly obvious isnt it.  
I really hope this  is not fight a fight at full powers though that would be perhaps the biggest curbstomp in comicvine. 

Trigon's daughter really can't be as weak as you are making her to be..... this is ridiculous guys.

Trigon's daughter really can't be as weak as you are making her to be..... this is ridiculous guys.

I think the biggest curbstomp I've ever seen was Ultron vs. Albert Wesker.

Trigon's daughter really can't be as weak as you are making her to be..... this is ridiculous guys.

I always thought Raven was more of an empath.

I always thought Raven was more of an empath.

@Illuminatus said:

@_Black said:

I always thought Raven was more of an empath.

She's like the only empath in DC.

There are very few, indeed.

Legion slaughterhouse.

@_Black said:

@Illuminatus said:

@_Black said:

I always thought Raven was more of an empath.

She's like the only empath in DC.

There are very few, indeed.

Mainly due to they are hard to write, it is an odd power, and hard for a good chunk of people to grasp, people tend to think she is a TP/TK person most empaths in comics have that problem

@Nefarious said:

Legion slaughterhouse.

unfair fight is unfair

Legion.

As a side note, I feel I should comment on Legion's telepathy. It's true that Xavier once said (in Uncanny X-Men #319) that Legion had "a mind perhaps more powerful than my own....a mind whose limits have never been fully gauged, if indeed they exist at all" but I really don't believe that Legion is better at telepathy than Xavier or other high-level telepaths like Nate Grey. I think his absolute best telepathy feats, in terms of how they compare to other telepaths, would come from X-Men Legacy #250, where he manipulates Chain's copies with ease even though Xavier struggled with them, and then from X-Factor #109, where he mindrapes Mystique despite Nate Grey not being able to do so in Dark X-Men because of her psychic baffles. However, it has been noted by Xavier before that Legion's lack of finesse and experience with his TP can be exploited, and he has done so. Legion has the raw telepathic power to compete with Xavier or Nate, but they have skill and experience and are thus on average better telepaths than he is.

@_Black said:

@Illuminatus said:

@_Black said:

I always thought Raven was more of an empath.

She's like the only empath in DC.

There are very few, indeed.

How many does Marvel have apart from Meggan? I honestly don't know.

@CitizenBane said:

@_Black said:

@Illuminatus said:

@_Black said:

I always thought Raven was more of an empath.

She's like the only empath in DC.

There are very few, indeed.

How many does Marvel have apart from Meggan? I honestly don't know.

None are coming to mind..

Edit: Mantis actually just popped into my head. Also, I believe it's one of Norrin's many abilities.

@Illuminatus said:

@CitizenBane said:

@_Black said:

@Illuminatus said:

@_Black said:

I always thought Raven was more of an empath.

She's like the only empath in DC.

There are very few, indeed.

How many does Marvel have apart from Meggan? I honestly don't know.

None are coming to mind..

They did have VOID with empathy control. They had this spiderman villian, Queen , with similar control. Apart from that none comes to mind.

@CitizenBane said:

@_Black said:

@Illuminatus said:

@_Black said:

I always thought Raven was more of an empath.

She's like the only empath in DC.

There are very few, indeed.

How many does Marvel have apart from Meggan? I honestly don't know.

Isn't Madame Web an Empath?

@CitizenBane said:

Legion.

As a side note, I feel I should comment on Legion's telepathy. It's true that Xavier once said (in Uncanny X-Men #319) that Legion had "a mind perhaps more powerful than my own....a mind whose limits have never been fully gauged, if indeed they exist at all" but I really don't believe that Legion is better at telepathy than Xavier or other high-level telepaths like Nate Grey. I think his absolute best telepathy feats, in terms of how they compare to other telepaths, would come from X-Men Legacy #250, where he manipulates Chain's copies with ease even though Xavier struggled with them, and then from X-Factor #109, where he mindrapes Mystique despite Nate Grey not being able to do so in Dark X-Men because of her psychic baffles. However, it has been noted by Xavier before that Legion's lack of finesse and experience with his TP can be exploited, and he has done so. Legion has the raw telepathic power to compete with Xavier or Nate, but they have skill and experience and are thus on average better telepaths than he is.

Well Legion is weighed down by being insane as well so legion usually not using much skill or experience just raw power. .

@JediXMan said:

@CitizenBane said:

@_Black said:

@Illuminatus said:

@_Black said:

I always thought Raven was more of an empath.

She's like the only empath in DC.

There are very few, indeed.

How many does Marvel have apart from Meggan? I honestly don't know.

Isn't Madame Web an Empath?

Both Madame Webs are telepaths. I suppose they might also be empaths but they are both fully functional telepaths.

@Skaddix said:

@CitizenBane said:

Legion.

As a side note, I feel I should comment on Legion's telepathy. It's true that Xavier once said (in Uncanny X-Men #319) that Legion had "a mind perhaps more powerful than my own....a mind whose limits have never been fully gauged, if indeed they exist at all" but I really don't believe that Legion is better at telepathy than Xavier or other high-level telepaths like Nate Grey. I think his absolute best telepathy feats, in terms of how they compare to other telepaths, would come from X-Men Legacy #250, where he manipulates Chain's copies with ease even though Xavier struggled with them, and then from X-Factor #109, where he mindrapes Mystique despite Nate Grey not being able to do so in Dark X-Men because of her psychic baffles. However, it has been noted by Xavier before that Legion's lack of finesse and experience with his TP can be exploited, and he has done so. Legion has the raw telepathic power to compete with Xavier or Nate, but they have skill and experience and are thus on average better telepaths than he is.

Well Legion is weighed down by being insane as well so legion usually not using much skill or experience just raw power. .

Be that as it may, in a telepathic fight either Xavier or Nate would take at least a slim majority over him.

@CitizenBane said:

Be that as it may, in a telepathic fight either Xavier or Nate would take at least a slim majority over him.

Just curious where do you see Kid Omega in this list, where would he be at.. below Legion or above him?

@Killemall said:

@CitizenBane said:

Be that as it may, in a telepathic fight either Xavier or Nate would take at least a slim majority over him.

Just curious where do you see Kid Omega in this list, where would he be at.. below Legion or above him?

As far as I know he'd be below, I don't recall Kid Omega doing anything to be above or equal to Xavier. If he was, he wouldn't have needed to hit him on the head with a baseball bat; he could have just KO'd him telepathically.

@CitizenBane said:

@_Black said:

@Illuminatus said:

@_Black said:

I always thought Raven was more of an empath.

She's like the only empath in DC.

There are very few, indeed.

How many does Marvel have apart from Meggan? I honestly don't know.

There is Empath from the Hellions/empath/29-2173/ and Cordelia Frost/cordelia-frost/29-10571/. A lot of Marvel's most powerful telepaths, such as Jean Grey, Charles Xavier and Emma Frost, had displayed this ability as part of their telepathic feats, as well.

In DC it is pretty limited in the empath department, Raven is the best known and probably the most versatile/powerful, but Wonder Woman has a lower form of it that makes her instantly buddy-buddy with wild animals, Phobia is another limited empath since her power is to read and control the fears of others, then there are the Sons of Trigon that all wielded one specific emotion each, Raven mentioned the Wyld was also an empath when they first encountered each other. The problem is that people often mistakes it for telepathy of a lower/different kind.

As for the battle itself...I would say Legion is more likely to endure whatever he might experience when bridgeing his mind with that of Raven, something that has knocked people out in the past. But that has less to do with telepathy than it does that Raven is a half-demon at constant war with herself.

Raven DESTROYS Legion with ease!

There is nothing in powers set that she hasn't fought, survived, and even won!

Legion's telepathy and other psionic abilities won't even work on Raven since she's immune to it all!

Even if he has access to his full personalities' powers set, Raven would still outclass him on the very basis of her Soul-Self! It will effortlessly heal Legion back to his pre-mutant form. Considering that she's a pacific like Silver Surfer, she's not known to fight unless extremely provoked, possessed, or threatened.

If he dares to enter Raven's already chaotic mind, then he will answer to Trigon's wrath!

So, what I gather is He has control over time as well and can teleport attacks through time.Also, Time sink is his personality that manipulates time. However,Majik also destroyed some of his personalities cause a personality is a soul essentially.All His different powers come from his personalities. Having said This, Xavier has tore down the defenses in his mind before he was expelled and that was an early feat. Emma and the cuckoos were taking him down mentally cause he lacks the control and experience that someone like Jean has.

Not sure if were using new 52 or more 52 Raven here

 Legion does not have that great of reaction speed, while Raven actually does IRC )  Now, If Magik can casually stroll around his mind, doing as she pleases without trying, he'll have hell with Jean and Raven.  Time sink happens to be his personality that happens to manipulate time, but Magik destroyed some of his personality, and that's part of his soul. Magik is weaker than Raven, and Raven happens to be a soul manipulator with magic based psionic /divine abilities and time manipulation as well. ( She has access to every time stream and her ports transverse time and space itself ). If you wish to counter Raven having time manipulation, I have a counter that won't end very well for Legion. In addition to this said new 52 Raven has blocked out a telepathic attack on Trigons level and Pre 52 Trigon protects her mind . Raven can casually summon the pain of 8 billion people on whim and can manipulate souls on a multi-universal level ....

Not to mention he cannot manipulate her soul, because hers is a nexus/gateway .... and she's immune to warping

there are several 'but' and 'what if' for this question, because david is a little vulnerable and his personalities need to agree, if I'm not mistaken, but if he's in control, he can give raven some work (but nothing that she don't do it). raven, besides being a high-level telepath, is an extremely powerful empath capable of manipulating the emotions of an entire continent. obviously, david does not depend solely on his telepathy either, just as raven does not depend solely on his empathy. david has more than 200 skills at the omega level and those skills include pyrokinesis, telepathy, telekinesis, reality manipulation and more. raven has something david hasn't shown yet is magic, but either way, i think she could handle him (and if he's with the king of shadows, who knows he might even win).

Raven