Legion vs Ben 10

@princearagorn1: how about creating? Paradox has created many parralel realities in his attempt to find a solution to a problem. Multiverse level. Remember, he substituted the space inside the forge of creation.

No, definitely multiversal. One of the chronosapien bombs even destroyed the better half of the multiverse.

"That is nice. What you're neglecting is, a universe is universal, not multiversal. lol."

A timestream inhibiting multiverses in definitely not universal.

"When did he do that? 0_o"

Eon almost did, using Paradox's device. Paradox can do the same if he wants to.

"Anyone past universe level. But paradox has to run away from celestialsapiens, remember?"

He's shown that he can survive just fine. Remember, he forced Ben out of Alien X transformation, before Serena and Bellicus could act.

"...because capability of creating/destroying a universe is the new definition megaversal level?"

....and timestream. Why Maltraunt was unable to use his powers, they were not in the timestream. The latest version created a timestream. A TIMESTREAM, not a UNIVERSE, but a MULTIVERSE!

And the ship and the shield can casually tank this kind of blast. Multi-versal technology. Take that GALACTUS!

lol. I meant his time manipulation powers.

Seems to me that everyone is very focused on comparing reality-warping capabilities in round 2.

How do Ben's Aliens stack up against Legion's powers in round 1, keeping in mind that mindrape is blocked by the Omnitrix's fail safes.

@lowlaville: Even Paradox has limits he can't reach the beginning of time

@lowlaville:

how about creating? Paradox has created many parralel realities in his attempt to find a solution to a problem. Multiverse level.

Where, if I may ask?

Remember, he substituted the space inside the forge of creation.

So...?

No, definitely multiversal. One of the chronosapien bombs even destroyed the better half of the multiverse.

He destroyed all versions alternate versions of ben, basically a poor man's version of God bomb.

Eon almost did, using Paradox's device. Paradox can do the same if he wants to.

Where did anyone in the episode deal with a multiverse? They were talking about the universe.

He's shown that he can survive just fine. Remember, he forced Ben out of Alien X transformation, before Serena and Bellicus could act.

Yes, he can survive by fleeing a universe level character who takes a while to implement his decisions.. Not really Impressive.

....and timestream. Why Maltraunt was unable to use his powers, they were not in the timestream. The latest version created a timestream. A TIMESTREAM, not a UNIVERSE, but a MULTIVERSE! A timestream inhibiting multiverses in definitely not universal

Annhilarg is, was, and always will be universal. And of course it had a timestream, without it the universe will be.. just space. Idk where you got the idea of multiverse being involved, when they explicitly and repeatedly say 'universe' in the situation. Since it looks like it has been a while since you watched the episode, I'll remind you of some dialogues: (all from the conversation on in the ship)

1. Contemelia: we are about to create a universe. The countdown has already begun.

2. Rook: They travel from universe to universe, destroying them!

3. Rook: I suspect if a universealready exists in this dimension, the annihilarg will destroy it!

4. Maltruant: He failed! *blah* .. The entire universe! in my image!

And the ship and the shield can casually tank this kind of blast. Universal+ technology.

Fixed.

Take that GALACTUS!

Hm.

@princearagorn1: there were talking of all realties and timelines

all realties and timelines = multiverse

The chronosapien timebomb destroyed the multverse except no wacth Ben's timeline.

@lowlaville: @princearagorn1: @atomix

Legion and Alien X have both been shown to have similar creation feats (creating a brand new universe)

How about destruction? Legion has erased the Elder Gods from existence with a thought. When Ben recreated his universe, did he destroy his world's equivalents? (Diagon, Eon, Paradox, etc.)

@tadpoleon: He destroyed the hand of another Celestialsapien with multiversal or even ( omniversal ) durabilty

And all Celestialsapien are more powerful than Diagon, Paradox, God Rex, Sugelite etc.

@atomix: I assume you're referring to this?

We're talking about alternate versions of ben. Basically a low level of God-Bomb, that thor redirected.

@princearagorn1: What?

When a Chronosapien Time Bomb is activated, it will unleash a blast that will entirely wipe out targeted timelines in the multiverse along with anyone or anything from them. The Time Bomb can apparently be programmed to either wipe out all of the timeline it is currently in according to Eon, or to leave that dimension untouched and erase the rest of the multiverse according to Vilgax

God bomb can kill all lives in the universe

multiverse is a lot bigger than a universe

Legion.

@mysticmedivh: Please, no more one word comments. I like people commenting on my posts as much as the next guy, but this is just taking up space that could be used for debate.

@atomix: ...chronosapien time bomb was used to erase all alternate versions of ben, instead of a timeline. Basically what gorr was trying to do with the God Bomb, except God-Bomb was designed to kill all the Gods across the multiverse.

@princearagorn1: But you mentioned earlier that Watchless Ben was left alone. (Ben from the Gwen 10 timeline?). Was it honed in on Omnitrix wielders only, or was that a mistake?

Speaking of god bombs, Legion erased the Elder Gods from existence, making him a living psuedo-god bomb.

@princearagorn1: What are you saying?

Vilgax has used the Chronsapien time bomb for erase all the alternate version of Ben and their timeline in the entire multiverse

According to Paradox all of the multiverse except for No Watch Timeline was briefly erased from the existence by Vilgax via Chronsapien Time bomb, but restored by Clorckwork used by No Watch Timeline.

Clorckwork is my new favourite alien.

@tadpoleon: legin a erase only the elder gods of earth not in the multiverse correct me if I'm wrong

and Alien x is more powerful than the elder gods

They haven't popped up in any other Marvel Universes after legion erased them.

Gods are pretty hard to erase from existence, as they have a nasty habit of re manifesting themselves.

Legion completely erased the very concept of the gods themselves.

@tadpoleon: The Elder gods are just first generation of Earths gods

Did they ever traveled in other universes?

@atomix:They created alternate planes of existence, and one was banished to an alternate dimension.

@tadpoleon: thanks

@atomix: Don't mention it? (What am I being thanked for?)

@tadpoleon: For have telling me that they created altenate plane of existence

But the planes of existence aren't real universes

@atomix: So what is the difference between dimensions and universes?

@tadpoleon: Dimension and Universe are the same thing

A plane of existence is for example the Heaven

@atomix: Sorry, that was me being a sillybum. Lemme rephrase; After the gods began eating each other, Gaia created Atum, god of the sun, to keep them in check. Then he started eating other gods and became Demigorge, the God Eater.

After that the remaining gods decided that Earth was screwed and escaped to different dimensions of their own creation.

http://www.comicvine.com/elder-gods/4060-52790/

Here ya go!

This has a list of the different dimensions the gods created for themselves, and describes their capabilities as "near multiversal".

@tadpoleon: Thor live in Asgard another dimension

Asgard isn't a universe, the definition of dimension is completely different in Marvel Universe

@atomix: But a dimension operates on different rules of physics, and has a separate timeline, correct?

Just think of the dimensions the Elder Gods create as alternate universes where instead of a large void of empty space dotted with planets, there is an endless stretching realm.

Btw, is it just me, or is this thread dead except for us?

Legion wins 1st round, and potentially 2nd round.

@kingant27: 'Ave ye not been readin' what I've been saying?

If you want to comment on the battle, great! Just include some flippin' reasoning.

@tadpoleon: No need to if the answer is obvious.

@kingant27: Please do anyway.

It's kind of wild how Ben has some many aliens and not a single one has TP or TP resistance.

That alone gives Legion the win here

The Omnitrix gives the user resistance to TP and Ben has some Aliens who should be completely immune to TP due to them lacking a mind

Ben has no business fighting an omega level mutant, especially one with TP. He gets his brain fried instantly.

@omega7373663: Post feats or these alien's with TP or TP resistance

1) Well we have Ghostfteak not being able to mind hax Four arms which also happened with frakenstrike

2) iirc the Omnitrix prevented Dagon from controlling Ben's mind (still don't have the scan for this one)

3) Aliens such as Goop don't have a mind so they should be immune to TP by Default

4) Ghostfteak failed to to take over Humungousaur body and mind

TP ain't doing anything ^

Like I didn't know what you were referring to. Ben not being able to be possessed by alien ghosts when he's already an alien has nothing to do with actually Telepathy that messes with your mind without any form of physical contact or overshadowing.

Not to mention this guy literally contends with xavier's TP powers that blow any ben 10 character's out the galaxy.