Kyle Katarn VS Mara Jade Skywalker

Combatant 1

Combatant 2

@shootingnova@jkbart@maxburgiv@playa1 Thoughts, guys?

@wollfmyth209: Looking back, Kyle Katarn was really overpowered in Jedi Outcast. When I got the stronger weapons, none of the stormtroopers caused me any trouble. And don't even get me started on his force powers.

That's common sense. Any Force user that's Knight level is going to have no trouble with Stormtroopers. Even Jedi less powerful and less skilled than either Katarn or Mara Jade have replicated this feat:

Gallery

Go ahead and talk about his Force powers.

@wollfmyth209: It seems that in no matter what context Katarn is in, his force powers seem to come in handy. Hell, a lot of times I managed to level 4 mind control Tavion with no repercussions. I know I'm only talking about game mechanics here, but I don't know much about Katarn beyond Jedi Outcast.

@wollfmyth209: The fact that he could canonically defeat Desann is, in my perspective, pretty impressive, if you consider that he can hold off Luke Skywalker and pretty much block any attack you throw at him (not counting Force Lightning), AND that Katarn retired from being a Jedi after Jedi Academy. What's more, he was able to defeat Jerec and all of his Dark Jedi, one by one.

It's impressive, especially seeing as how Desann managed to hold his own against Luke. But Mara Jade has bested Lumiya, a Sith Lady superior to Desann by a good margin. To give you a better perspective, here's what happened when Desann dueled Luke:

Desann holds his own briefly and then escapes, fleeing the fight.

This is what happened when Lumiya faced Luke:

Gallery

It's simple to conclude from this that Mara is the more skilled duelist of the two.

This is a decent feat of skill on his side. But not so much that he'd be placed above Mara Jade Skywalker. The Dark Jedi, besides Jerec, are low-levelers.

Mara Jade, however, while hindered and weakened by spore coombs, has bested multiple Vong. And Vong were noted Jedi killers with limited resistance to the Force. There's also people like Alema Rar and the aformentioned Lumiya, who have good skill feats under their belts, that Mara bested or at least stalemated.

Care to talk about Force abilities now?

@wollfmyth209: I think that KK is one of the only Jedi who can use F. Lightning (shown below). Like I said earlier, his F. Powers are very useful in Jedi Outcast, and without them I'm pretty sure I'd never beat Desann. I'm not sure if other Jedi can do the same, but Kyle Katarn can use Force Heal on the go, which gives him a huge advantage in direct combat.

@wollfmyth209: Luke fought Lumiya around 4 ABY, and Desann around 12 ABY. Within that gap, Thrawn campaign happened, Dark Empire, Jedi Academy Trilogy.

That, and Mara defeated Lumiya by ground and pounding her, not in a saber fight. The feat only really helps in situations like this if you can justify Lumiya's physical robustness and prove that Mara can turn this into an MMA match.

I forgot the time difference.

I am aware. But dueling someone of Lumiya's caliber is a decent skill feat, even if she did have to resort to unarmed combat to best her in the end.

@maxburgiv Well my post got deleted for some reason...

Kyle Katarn.

More adroit duelist, better physical capabilities, and at least loosely comparable in the Force.

Katarn wins imo. Although I never studied Jade in depth, Kyle is very strong in the force and one of the wittiest Jedi.

I'll give most of the NJO era-novels a read this summer so I can provide more in-depth answers in topics like these. But my initial impression is that Mara would win.

@wollfmyth209:

It's simple to conclude from this that Mara is the more skilled duelist of the two.

I'm not sold on this, tbh. Katarn fighting his way through a horde of Jedi-level warriors, equipped with cortisis armor, in en-rout to defeating an amped Dasann is something I would put up against what Mara has done. Not to mention, Kyle, with no formal training whatsoever was able to best the 7 best Dark Jedi in the galaxy - and his technical skill with a blade in being fluid in over & different lightsaber styles is also above anything I've seen from Mara.

Obviously, different view points can be made, but I see Kyle as the more skilled duelist out of the two.

Mara quite solidly

Katarn lacks skill feats in general, he had the aid of Qu Rahn when beating those Dark Jedi (in the novels at least), beating Nom Anor/Yomin Carr, and beating Alema and outfighting Lumiya impress me more than anything he'se done. Those Dark jedi are pretty inept as well tbh, Qu Rahn stomped all seven before being destroyed by Jerec, and in the novel one of them even kills himself with his blaster.

@burnface:

Mara quite solidly

Don't be silly.

Katarn lacks skill feats in general

No he doesn't.

he had the aid of Qu Rahn when beating those Dark Jedi.

Only in terms of instructing, tbh. He didn't actually amp Kyle Katarn with Force as far as I know. Unless you can post evidence showing he did.

beating Nom Anor/Yomin Carr.

Besting Dassan is just as good a besting Carr, to be honest.

and beating Alema

Alema hasn't done anything that puts her above Valin Horn - someone Kyle is above by a decent degree.

and outfighting Lumiya impress me more than anything he'se done.

Yeah, in a UFC like MMA match. If Mara tries that on Kyle, she won't have the same success, seeing as how Kyle physical abilities outstrip Jade in terms of strength and pain soak.

Edit: Kyle's eccentric dueling style, and technical skill is still an edge over Jade.

Ah, Jedi Academy. Have a lot of memories from the multiplayer. basejka and ja+. I was in the top 10 of ESL 1on1 ladder, bow down peasants.

It's impressive, but last time I checked Desann wasn't anything that special. He briefly held his own against Luke and then made debris fall on him and escaped. Besting him is something Mara could pull off.

He defeated them with Rahn instructing him, IIRC. And while a good feat, Jerec is the only one actually skilled or powerful out of those Dark Jedi. Outside of getting bested by an inexpirienced, out of prime Katarn, they don't have any feats to their name.

So he's more skilled because he knows more styles of fighting? Then by that logic Drallig should beat Anakin, but that's not what happened. Knowing more styles does give versatility in combat, but if your opponent is more skilled then it won't help.

True. But Mara was hindered by a fatal desease when she dueled Carr, and had to consistently draw upon her strength in the Force to keep her going.

What has Valin Horn done, exactly, to place on par with someone capable of holding off Leia while injured, and then stalemating Leia under normal circumstances? Plus, Mara would've ended the fight quickly, but she was overconfident and reckless. Hence why Alema proved a decent challenge.

As overconfidence always does, Mara’s proved costly. Alema dropped her lightsaber and stretched out her arm, driving her sharp Twi’lek finger talons into Mara’s throat and twisting aside so that the short lightsaber slipped past without hitting anything.

Source: Legacy of the Force: Tempest

@dccomicsrule2011 said:

Yeah, in a UFC like MMA match. If Mara tries that on Kyle, she won't have the same success, seeing as how Kyle physical abilities outstrip Jade in terms of strength and pain soak.

They engaged in a duel before the MMA match, and Mara fought evenly. And didn't Lumiya also have a strength/endurance advantage over Mara Jade? Lumiya is a Sith Lady with cybernetically enhanced limbs after all. She should have a reasonable amount of strength and durability. But I'll bite, what are Katarn's strength durability feats?

@dccomicsrule2011 said:

Obviously, different view points can be made, but I see Kyle as the more skilled duelist out of the two.

Indeed they can. And I see Jade as the superior duelist of the two. And she's the more powerful Force user, tbh. But then again, you're the expert, I'm just an idiot who set up a thread.

Tbh reading through the DF novels, Kyle was kinda of lucky in his few fights. Though let's not forget that ontop of his short training with Tal, he also had his Stormtrooper training which they did train in CQC combat with bladed weaponry.

But considering were obviously using a prime Kyle, it's rather moot. But just something I thought I'd bring up.

Tanking a crashing shuttle without getting knocked off his feet... and without shielding himself with the Force. It's a purely physical feat.

Caedus reached out a hand as if intending to hurl Katarn away from him. The Master raised his own hand, a deflecting gesture. But Caedus exerted himself against the oncoming GAG speeder, yanking it down toward all of them.

A moment’s inattention or focus elsewhere. That’s all it took. But the time Katarn felt the speeder coming toward him – spinning, its stern a mere two meters from his back – it was already too late for him to send a command even to Force-augmented nerves and muscles. His face changed with the awareness of the danger.

Then the speeder’s port quarter hit his back, hurling him forward to slam into Caedus. The speeder, continuing its out-of-control motion, slid through the location of the other Jedi, knocking Hu’lya to the permacrete, causing Horn and Mithric to leap to safety.

Katarn now stood so close to Caedus that every facial feature was visible, every scar and line in his weathered face, every hair on his brow, mustache, and beard.

Kyle isn't winning. He has no edges over Mara except a strength edge of insufficient margin to be of consequence.

@jedixman: According to the quote, it was a speeder, not a shuttle. And it did knock him forward, hurling him to slam into Caedus.

Caedus reached out a hand as if intending to hurl Katarn away from him. The Master raised his own hand, a deflecting gesture. But Caedus exerted himself against the oncoming GAG speeder, yanking it down toward all of them.

...

Then the speeder’s port quarter hit his back, hurling him forward to slam into Caedus. The speeder, continuing its out-of-control motion, slid through the location of the other Jedi, knocking Hu’lya to the permacrete, causing Horn and Mithric to leap to safety.

It's still impressive to endure something like a speeder hitting you on the back, though.

oh, how i've missed Jedi Outcast... i need to re-install it and play through again.

idk much about Mara, except she's a badass, so i won't presume to know who'd win in a fight, but i'm sure it would be awesome to watch. :)

No one here has proved Mara Jade has any edges here either - or that she actually wins. I'm unconvinced she is more skilled with a blade, and the Force difference between the two isn't big enough for Mara to grab a win their.

@dccomicsrule2011: Every little edge counts. Mara is more powerful, probably about equally skilful with a blade, better at turning fights into unarmed combat/fighting in an unconventional manner, and quite possibly faster/more agile. I'd giver her the slight edge over Kyle.

mara

Damn DC, you gonna take that bro?

@wollfmyth209:

It's impressive, but last time I checked Desann wasn't anything that special. He briefly held his own against Luke and then made debris fall on him and escaped. Besting him is something Mara could pull off.

You speak as if holding off a Luke that wanted him captured is a small feat. Remember - this Luke was far and away more powerful than the one in Dark Empire according to Corran Horn. Desann not only fending him off, but knocking him t the ground with his blows a couple of times, is not something to scoff at, tbh.

Can Mara replicate it, after chopping through Stormtroopers, Shadow Troopers and Reborn? I don't now, but I don't think any of Mara feats are as impressive as the above.

He defeated them with Rahn instructing him, IIRC.

...sure. But he only instructed him on a few moves here or there. He wasn't aped, and the actual dueling was all Katarn, tbh.

And while a good feat, Jerec is the only one actually skilled or powerful out of those Dark Jedi. Outside of getting bested by an inexperienced, out of prime Katarn, they don't have any feats to their name.

I'd suggest you read this TBH. http://www.comicvine.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/jerec-and-his-dark-jedi-respect-thread-1684787/ While they weren't great, they were at least somewhat skilled. Aside from that though, the point is to scale off the feat. If an n00b Katarn could pull of such a feat, imagine what a far more skilled (both technical combativley speaking and and powerful Katarn would do?

So he's more skilled because he knows more styles of fighting?

Technically speaking? Sure he is.

Then by that logic Drallig should beat Anakin, but that's not what happened.

False Equivalent, to be honest. Anakin is more skilled as a duelist as a whole, but in terms of technical adroitness, I would say yes, Draling is Anakin's superior.

Knowing more styles does give versatility in combat, but if your opponent is more skilled then it won't help.

Strawman. I clearly was referring to technical skill, only, which I would give to Kyle given his ability to master more forms, create his own unique forms among other things.

What has Valin Horn done, exactly, to place on par with someone capable of holding off Leia while injured, and then stalemating Leia under normal circumstances?

Giving Corran a decent due tbh.

Plus, Mara would've ended the fight quickly, but she was overconfident and reckless. Hence why Alema proved a decent challenge.

Good for her.

They engaged in a duel before the MMA match, and Mara fought evenly.

Their "duel" was very brief tbh. Before Mara went all Ronda Rousey on Lumiya, tbh.

And didn't Lumiya also have a strength/endurance advantage over Mara Jade?

I dunno.

Lumiya is a Sith Lady with cybernetically enhanced limbs after all. She should have a reasonable amount of strength and durability. But I'll bite, what are Katarn's strength durability feats?

Kicking Yuuzhan Vong the distance of explosions, harming Darth Caedus with a kick, and tanking Speeder hitting his back without the Force augmenting his physical abilities surpass anything we've see from Lumiya or Jade. Not to mention, his H2H feats, far surpass either.

Indeed they can. And I see Jade as the superior duelist of the two.

Fair enough. I'm still not sold on that idea but I won't knock anyone that does.

And she's the more powerful Force user, tbh.

I can agree there at least until I finish Outcast and going through Kyle's Force feats.

But then again, you're the expert, I'm just an idiot who set up a thread.

Ehh. None of our words are canon, so we're more or less on the same plane in these threads; nerds who love Star Wars. Though I find it flattering you think that abut me. :D

@i_like_swords:

Damn DC, you gonna take that bro?

@shootingnova said:

Every little edge counts.

Sure it does. That's why Kyle enjoys most of the.

Mara is more powerful

Maybe so. Then again,Kyle is more versatile as a Force user. Abilities such as Darkshear, Force Lightning and quite possibly even Force Drain is at his disposal. He also fluid in Force Barrier and Force Absorption, though Mara is also highly deft in the latter as well.

probably about equally skilful with a blade

I'm not sold on that yet, tbh. Kyle feat of cutting through several Stormtroopers, Shadowtroopers troopers, and Reborn both by himself and alongside other Jedi, then proceeding to beat an amped Dessan is more impressive than anything I've see from Mara. And his technical skill with a blade in being adept in over 7 lightsaber forms and making his own unique fencing style is likewise more impressive tha anything from Jade on that level.

better at turning fights into unarmed combat/fighting in an unconventional manner

I don't know why you think a unarmed confrontation would favor Jade. Kyle strength, durability and pain tolerance feats far outstrip her own, and he himself is a skilled H2H combatant. Jade performing that against Lumiya (someone who's not as adept in H2H as Kyle nor as durable or strong).

Katarn was able to defeat one of the greatest Imperial Stormtroopers in H2H Ram Mohc. Ram was heavily decorated and specialized in slaying droids:

A ground-pounder serving under the decorated Republic Grand Army General Locus Geen during the Clone Wars, Rom Mohc saw action in the Coruscant Insurrection of the Separatist's cortosis droid army. A cybernetics specialist obsessed with personal combat, Trooper Mohc fought the droids mano-a-mano, exploiting the weaknesses he had observed in the battle droids' designs. For his bravery, Mohc was touted as a hero all over the HoloNet.

An eccentric intelligence prone to violence, Mohc's mania for personal combat continued into his service with the Galactic Empire, earning him numerous commendations, including three Imperial Medals of Valor and the Distinguished Medal of Imperial Honor. Over the years, Mohc also set up a trophy room full of battle droids he had personally defeated in man-to-droid match ups, including a prototype IG97, a deadly ZQ infantry droid, and Mark IX-XI Executioners. It was thus during his time as a Zero-G Imperial Spacetroooper that Mohc became increasingly convinced he could build a warbot superior to anything the galaxy had ever seen. To this end, he studied the designs of mechanical soldiers throughout history, from Xim to the Sith to the Iron Knights of the Old Republic. The ultimate result was General Mohc's awesome Dark Trooper project.

--Excerpt from Dark Forces Saga Part 1

Yet, Kyle still defeated him in strict H2H combat, while he donned the most powerful Dark Trooper Exosuit created:

Mohc at last met his match when the Imperial traitor Kyle Katarn, whom Mohc had last seen receiving the prized Medal of Valor, confronted him on the Arc Hammer. Despite donning one of the only Phase Three Dark Trooper exosuits produced aboard the massive craft, Mohc was defeated by the Rebel in hand-to-hand combat. The general was atomized along with the rest of the Dark Trooper project when Kyle destroyed the mobile production facility.

---Excerpt from Dark Forces Saga Part 1

So yeah, turning this into a MMA like bout, would end in Mara getting her sexy body rocked so bad, Luke would latter kill Katarn, because he'd consider it cheating.

and quite possibly faster/more agile.

Agile, possibly but what the heck have she does to give her an edge in the speed department?

I'd giver her the slight edge over Kyle.

I"ll still go with that, tbh.

Also the Dark Force Saga has plenty of information on Kyle Katarn, Jerec, Desann and the 6 the other Dark Jedi Kyle bested. Since I'm too lazy to get quotes from myself, you guys can look over it yourselves in the links below:

@dccomicsrule2011:

Sure it does. That's why Kyle enjoys most of the.

Not really.

Maybe so. Then again,Kyle is more versatile as a Force user. Abilities such as Darkshear, Force Lightning and quite possibly even Force Drain is at his disposal. He also fluid in Force Barrier and Force Absorption, though Mara is also highly deft in the latter as well.

As I recall, he's only shown Darkshear on a nexus, but regardless it's a dark side power he'll almost certainly avoid in a battle like this unless he was utterly desperate. Mara has Lightning as well, along with defensive powers - and far more. A range of telepathic abilities, Alter Environment, Listening, Stun, Heal, Breath Control, Concealment, Morichro, Deflection, Meld, etc.

Kyle won't be using Drain in battle either because of morals. As it stands, Mara is both more versatile with the Force and more powerful with telekinesis, which is probably the only thing that matters here apart from Barrier.

I'm not sold on that yet, tbh. Kyle feat of cutting through several Stormtroopers, Shadowtroopers troopers, and Reborn both by himself and alongside other Jedi, then proceeding to beat an amped Dessan is more impressive than anything I've see from Mara. And his technical skill with a blade in being adept in over 7 lightsaber forms and making his own unique fencing style is likewise more impressive tha anything from Jade on that level.

Where is it stated that he's a master of the seven forms? I only recall him knowing Ataru and Djem So, as well as the Fast/Strong/Medium styles, his own style, and some ancient ritualistic swordfighting.

Regarding actual skill feats, Mara's ability to defeat a Vong when encountering one for the first time and suffering from what was a fatal disease to others is at least as good as anything you mentioned, particularly if you look at the track record of others against Vong (Shado Vao, Cade Skywalker, etc.)

I'd also say Corran Horn conceding to her superiority makes her at least as skilled as Kyle in sabers. As I recall, the disparity between the two in terms of showings against Vong isn't that great.

I don't know why you think a unarmed confrontation would favor Jade. Kyle strength, durability and pain tolerance feats far outstrip her own, and he himself is a skilled H2H combatant. Jade performing that against Lumiya (someone who's not as adept in H2H as Kyle nor as durable or strong).

Katarn was able to defeat one of the greatest Imperial Stormtroopers in H2H Ram Mohc. Ram was heavily decorated and specialized in slaying droids:

Yet, Kyle still defeated him in strict H2H combat, while he donned the most powerful Dark Trooper Exosuit created:

Based on what is Kyle's durability and pain tolerance far and away superior to Mara's? She had Lumiya's metal jaw cut right into her forehead, was repeatedly slammed into stone by Jacen, etc. and kept on fighting.

So yeah, turning this into a MMA like bout, would end in Mara getting her sexy body rocked so bad, Luke would latter kill Katarn, because he'd consider it cheating.

lol

Agile, possibly but what the heck have she does to give her an edge in the speed department?

The fact that Jacen held her speed in high regard and implied that it was comparable to his, the fact that she could dodge Lightning from point-blank range, and the fact that she was continually repelling Lightning on her blade decades before her prime.

@shootingnova:

Not really.

...yeah. The dueling edge, martial ability, strength, durability, versatility in the Force, etc, etc.

As I recall, he's only shown Darkshear on a nexus.

Sure it was, but nowhere was it stated he actually needed it to perform the feat.

but regardless it's a dark side power he'll almost certainly avoid in a battle like this unless he was utterly desperate.

Kyle's morals and such,in regards to the Darkside powers and lightside powers - is fluff to him. As Jaden Korr reiterated in Crosscurrent - to Kyle it's about how you use the power and your intent for using the power that matters. He doesn't believe one Force power is a "good" one or "bad" one. That was at least how Jaden worded it in Crosscurrent. I'll dig for the quote when i stop being lazy.

Mara has Lightning as well.

Which she doesn't use nearly as often as Kyle does tbh.

along with defensive powers - and far more.

Great.

A range of telepathic abilities.

So does Kyle.

Alter Environment.

Fair enough

Listening.

Okay? This ain't really going to help out in singles combat, and Katarn has that as well.

Stun.

Solid. But won't really help in a duel, tbh.

Heal, Breath Control,

Useless in duels. And Kyle has those as well.

Concealment

Kyle knows that.

Morichro.

LAL.

Deflection

Kyle knows, this as well, IIRC.

Kyle won't be using Drain in battle either because of morals.

Maybe, maybe no. It's all context and intent that matters for Katarn.

As it stands, Mara is both more versatile with the Force

Yeah...no. Irrelevant powers are irrelevant. Kyle knows more abilities that can actually help in duels such as deflection, Barrier, absorption, Darkshear, and drain (the latter is probably game mechanics, though, so you can ignore it You can argue he won't use some of them - but than again, Kyle's morals aren't exactly concrete, at least that's how Jaden put it.

and more powerful with telekinesis.

By a fairly small amount, tbh. Nothing that would alter the duel much at all, really.

which is probably the only thing that matters here apart from Barrier.

If that's what you say.

Where is it stated that he's a master of the seven forms? I only recall him knowing Ataru and Djem So, as well as the Fast/Strong/Medium styles, his own style, and some ancient ritualistic swordfighting.

When did I ever say he was a master in all seven lightsaber forms? I said he was adept at over 7 - which he is. The ones you've named, plus Shii-Cho (per the Legacy of the Force Preview 5).

Regarding actual skill feats, Mara's ability to defeat a Vong when encountering one for the first time and suffering from what was a fatal disease to others is at least as good as anything you mentioned. particularly if you look at the track record of others against Vong (Shado Vao, Cade Skywalker, etc.)

Not really. Desann, under normal circumstances, was able to fend of Luke Skywalker, who was actively trying to stop him (it makes no sense for Luke not to try when the Jedi order hangs in the balance, tbh) and knocking him down a couple of times during the duel, all the while escaping him.

Kyle beat an amped Desaan that absorbed the power of the Yavin nexus into his person, after fighting his way through a horde of Shadowtroopers, Reborn and Stormtroopers (some Reborn troopers are masters of 3 lightsaber styles and the Shadowtroopers are above Reborn, objectively, and they can utilize abilities such as Lightning, along with a Cortisis armor.)

Truth be told, I consider Desaan to be superior to Carr, and while Mara was working with several unfavorable circumstances going against her, Kyle himself had to fight through a bunch of Dark Jedi, and troopers before reaching an amped Desaan. Those aren't exactly favorable circumstances either.

I'd also say Corran Horn conceding to her superiority makes her at least as skilled as Kyle in sabers.

Horn is noticeably below Kyle, IMO, so no. Not by a huge amount, but I certainly see a gap there.

As I recall, the disparity between the two in terms of showings against Vong isn't that great.

Both have wrecked Vong, tbh.

So I don't know if you can actually draw much from that. Shadowtroopers are comparable to Jenesarri in regards to the fact they both sport armor that can repel lightsaber strikes and overall hype and such, and Kyle's performance against the Troopers are more impressive than Horn's against the Jenesarri. Technical skill and versatility, is in Katarn's favor, as well - obviously more showing and stuff can be drawn between these two, but I'm too lazy to delve into it, tbh.

Based on what is Kyle's durability and pain tolerance far and away superior to Mara's? She had Lumiya's metal jaw cut right into her forehead, was repeatedly slammed into stone by Jacen, etc. and kept on fighting.

Getting smacked by a Speedster without calling the the Force to enhance his physical fortitude, or tanking Ragnos Scepter comes to mind. I would put those above a forehead cut by a lot to be frank. Getting slammed through stone is good, but I think getting hit by a vessel the size of a speeder hurled at you (at speeds fast enough that he wasn't able to call on the Force to aid him), is a tiny bit better.

The fact that Jacen held her speed in high regard and implied that it was comparable to his

I sorry, but the underline is utter garbage. Jacen is someone who matched Luke's speed - someone who's speed severely outmatch people on Mara's level, who should be around the Obi-Wan/Maul level in speed, if not below. If we take something like that at face value, we much acknowledge that Jade is one fo the fastest characters in the mythos, and her feats doesn't back it up in the slightest.

The fact that Jacen held her speed in high regard and implied that it was comparable to his, the fact that she could dodge Lightning from point-blank range, and the fact that she was continually repelling Lightning on her blade decades before her prime.

Fair enough. But I'd argue Kyle throwing several blows in the span of seconds, and perceiving blaster bolts in a slowed down time perception, is just as good as the above.

@dccomicsrule2011:

...yeah. The dueling edge, martial ability, strength, durability, versatility in the Force, etc, etc.

I disagree, but whatever.

Sure it was, but nowhere was it stated he actually needed it to perform the feat.

It was an incredible nexus, because, as I recall, it was in the Valley of the Jedi. The fact that Kyle has never shown it again supports such the idea of him not being able to use it out of such powerful nexuses.

Kyle's morals and such,in regards to the Darkside powers and lightside powers - is fluff to him. As Jaden Korr reiterated in Crosscurrent - to Kyle it's about how you use the power and your intent for using the power that matters. He doesn't believe one Force power is a "good" one or "bad" one. That was at least how Jaden worded it in Crosscurrent. I'll dig for the quote when i stop being lazy.

And yet Kyle has never used or mentioned it ever again. Nothing suggests he has a good chance of using it in this battle, either.

Which she doesn't use nearly as often as Kyle does tbh.

That's irrelevant. Both of them can avoid getting hit by Lightning pretty easily.

LAL.

As I recall, Morichro is the slowing or disabling of any bodily functions, which would include heat and sweat emissions, no?

Yeah...no. Irrelevant powers are irrelevant. Kyle knows more abilities that can actually help in duels such as deflection, Barrier, absorption, Darkshear, and drain (the latter is probably game mechanics, though, so you can ignore it You can argue he won't use some of them - but than again, Kyle's morals aren't exactly concrete, at least that's how Jaden put it.

That's ridiculous. Mara has Deflection and Barrier as well and as far as I know, she's considerably superior in the latter (which is probably the only one that's going to turn up). Kyle has never used or even mentioned Darkshear or Drain on neutral ground.

When did I ever say he was a master in all seven lightsaber forms? I said he was adept at over 7 - which he is. The ones you've named, plus Shii-Cho (per the Legacy of the Force Preview 5).

Fair enough.

Not really. Desann, under normal circumstances, was able to fend of Luke Skywalker, who was actively trying to stop him (it makes no sense for Luke not to try when the Jedi order hangs in the balance, tbh) and knocking him down a couple of times during the duel, all the while escaping him.

Kyle beat an amped Desaan that absorbed the power of the Yavin nexus into his person, after fighting his way through a horde of Shadowtroopers, Reborn and Stormtroopers (some Reborn troopers are masters of 3 lightsaber styles and the Shadowtroopers are above Reborn, objectively, and they can utilize abilities such as Lightning, along with a Cortisis armor.)

Truth be told, I consider Desaan to be superior to Carr, and while Mara was working with several unfavorable circumstances going against her, Kyle himself had to fight through a bunch of Dark Jedi, and troopers before reaching an amped Desaan. Those aren't exactly favorable circumstances either.

Not sure I'm convinced of the Desann feat, but then again, considering the potency of Yavin's nexus and the fact that Kyle was still so far from his prime, that seriously suggests that Kyle, in the peak of his ability, was at least as good as RotJ Luke.

Both have wrecked Vong, tbh.

So I don't know if you can actually draw much from that. Shadowtroopers are comparable to Jenesarri in regards to the fact they both sport armor that can repel lightsaber strikes and overall hype and such, and Kyle's performance against the Troopers are more impressive than Horn's against the Jenesarri. Technical skill and versatility, is in Katarn's favor, as well - obviously more showing and stuff can be drawn between these two, but I'm too lazy to delve into it, tbh.

None of this suggests greater skill than Mara. His ability to switch between forms is noted, but as I recall, he tends to fight with just his own personal style, as opposed to switching between multiple forms mid-duel like others might.

Getting smacked by a Speedster without calling the the Force to enhance his physical fortitude, or tanking Ragnos Scepter comes to mind. I would put those above a forehead cut by a lot to be frank. Getting slammed through stone is good, but I think getting hit by a vessel the size of a speeder hurled at you (at speeds fast enough that he wasn't able to call on the Force to aid him), is a tiny bit better.

Being cut by durasteel in the head is comparable to the speeder thing (he has inherently enhanced durability levels as well, so it's not like he'd be a normal human), but I did forget about Ragnos' Scepter.

It's not a tiny bit better, and besides, if it was, it wouldn't be "far superior" to Mara's like you claimed earlier.

I sorry, but the underline is utter garbage. Jacen is someone who matched Luke's speed - someone who's speed severely outmatch people on Mara's level, who should be around the Obi-Wan/Maul level in speed, if not below. If we take something like that at face value, we much acknowledge that Jade is one fo the fastest characters in the mythos, and her feats doesn't back it up in the slightest.

Jacen doesn't need to match Luke's speed to compete with him, but. I meant he suggested comparable levels of speed to his injured self in Sacrifice, though he did make a note of her speed and athleticism, which suggests it was her foremost trait. I think that, combined with the fact that he didn't note Kyle to be particularly fast, suggests that Mara was probably somewhat faster.

Fair enough. But I'd argue Kyle throwing several blows in the span of seconds, and perceiving blaster bolts in a slowed down time perception, is just as good as the above.

No, not really. Every Jedi throws several blows in several seconds, any peak human could do that, to be honest.

I seem to recall Mara perceiving blaster bolts in slow motion in one of the early NR novels, which I have yet to add to my respect thread.