#1 Posted by WillPayton (9455 posts) - - Show Bio

vs

Random encounter, win by KO, death, or permanent incapacitation.

Who wins?

#2 Posted by HellionVulcan (3779 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm gonna say stalemate since i don't think each has the means to win .

#3 Posted by homicidalmaniac (7605 posts) - - Show Bio

Might be a stalemate

#4 Posted by pooty (11151 posts) - - Show Bio
#5 Posted by oceanmaster21 (8037 posts) - - Show Bio

might be a stalemate

#6 Posted by XiiX (8262 posts) - - Show Bio

Stalemate, or Void/Sentry.

#7 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17174 posts) - - Show Bio

Magic was hurting Void and Sentry before, but they don't seem to be able to take away Kuurth's powers. Sooner or later Kuurth will win.

#8 Posted by eternityx (2778 posts) - - Show Bio

Kuurth

#9 Posted by Blacharrt1 (751 posts) - - Show Bio

Kuurth

#10 Posted by sophia89 (3821 posts) - - Show Bio

in siege,void was taking thor's blasts without a scratch,it wasn't until the norn stones that he started to get hurt,kuurth was about to lose to colousel,when the serpant bfref him to save him,void will win via molecule maniplation

#11 Edited by fiodestromus (1025 posts) - - Show Bio

Can either of them even be truly harmed by each other?

the battle would be epic no doubt!!

#12 Posted by Blacharrt1 (751 posts) - - Show Bio

@sophia89 said:

in siege,void was taking thor's blasts without a scratch,it wasn't until the norn stones that he started to get hurt,kuurth was about to lose to colousel,when the serpant bfref him to save him,void will win via molecule maniplation

that was after Kuurth lost his Juggernaut powers, not before. The one pictures is the one with the Juggernaut powers, which Sentry would lose to, badly.

#13 Posted by dondave (37436 posts) - - Show Bio
Online
#14 Posted by sophia89 (3821 posts) - - Show Bio

@blacharrt1: he didnt lose it,it was taken away,when colosul said he would take it,after avx his sister said she could have taken it away with ease she just did that to show peter there were no snowflakes in hell,so kuurth is nowhere near a high lv demon,void should win easy,after scattering his molecules

#15 Posted by Killemall (18573 posts) - - Show Bio

Magic was hurting Void and Sentry before, but they don't seem to be able to take away Kuurth's powers. Sooner or later Kuurth will win.

A very special kind of magic, one from , lack of better terms, cosmic cube lites. Norm stones can pretty much do anything.

Beyond that, Dr. Strange magic didnt fair much against Sentry, neither did Doom's mystic shield. Even Morganna while capable of killing him once could do nothing to either prevent him from coming back, or actually killing her. She had to go back in time, plan specifically for Sentry and come back.

Magic as itself has never been Sentry;s kryptonite unless its well of insanely powerful order.

#16 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17174 posts) - - Show Bio

@czarny_samael666 said:

Magic was hurting Void and Sentry before, but they don't seem to be able to take away Kuurth's powers. Sooner or later Kuurth will win.

A very special kind of magic, one from , lack of better terms, cosmic cube lites. Norm stones can pretty much do anything.

Beyond that, Dr. Strange magic didnt fair much against Sentry, neither did Doom's mystic shield. Even Morganna while capable of killing him once could do nothing to either prevent him from coming back, or actually killing her. She had to go back in time, plan specifically for Sentry and come back.

Magic as itself has never been Sentry;s kryptonite unless its well of insanely powerful order.

1.Norn Stones.

2.Strange spell was only psionic attack that really had effect on Sentry. Strange's illusion was succesfull pretty long.

3.Doom's attack stunned Sentry until Doom released him from it.

4.Morgana erased him with one move.

4 different examples of Void being more than just hurt by magic. Until we belive that Void can cut off Kuurth from his power source, Void's enemy will just keep coming until Void will go down.

#17 Posted by TheWitchingHour (1340 posts) - - Show Bio

If Kuurth had his Juggernaut powers while fighting Void/Sentry he would have a decisive victory. He was able to counter every single strategy the X-Men threw at him without batting an eye. While Void/Sentry might have the raw power to challenge him I don't think he has the ingenuity to figure out a way to defeat him. Void/Sentry seemed to be flailing in the wind in Seige and that would mean absolutely nothing when it comes to Kuurth (due to his extreme power and more importantly extreme adaptability).

However if Kuurth does not have Cytorrak's blessing then Void/Sentry should win. While Kuurth is fueled by magic he is not a adept Magic user which seems to be the only thing to really have affected the Sentry in any form. Also Sentry was going toe to toe with Thor so there's that.

Kuurth/Juggernaut beats Void/Sentry but plain Kuurth loses to Void/Sentry.

#18 Posted by Killemall (18573 posts) - - Show Bio

1.Norn Stones.

Ta-ma-to.. Ta-may-to :p

hehehe

2.Strange spell was only psionic attack that really had effect on Sentry. Strange's illusion was succesfull pretty long.

Only affected him a while, and Strange outright admit, Sentry has always been too powerful for that kind of magic.

Now i suppose we could make an argument that he was only too strong for "this" particular kind of magic, although it was made pretty clearly from earlier conversation (Sentry vol 1 # 3) that Dr. Strange wouldnt really fare much better against the Void.

In a different issue, Dr. Strange even mentions once again that he is outright scared of the Void.

When Void manifested himself, Dr. Strange was one of the person trying to stop him, yet he could do nothing but hope Sentry comes back and calms himself down.

I see plenty of evidence suggesting Magic isnt his kryptonite.

Now for Kuurth do really be able to do anything significant, he has to , somehow, use magic beyond the likes of Dr. Strange which he cant.

3.Doom's attack stunned Sentry until Doom released him from it.

Depends on which instance you look at, and either instance you look at, Dr. Doom magic hasnt been enough to actually take down Sentry, let alone his more powerful, Void counterpart.

Furthermore its not like Kuurth is packing any better magic than Dr. Doom really.

Mighty Avengers # 09, Dr. Doom puts much magic and shield, having Avengers helpless, but Sentry clearly blitzes through the Shield with extreme impunity.

Again on Mighty Avengers # 11, Dr. Doom starts calling in Magik, but Sentry just grabs him and rips apart him armor rather casually.

Again the point i am trying to bring forward is, in order to actually take down Void, you would need some serious magic. Not that Sentry/ Void is immune to magic, but rather it doesnt fare any better than other kind of attack, it has to be sufficiently large in terms of maginitude to do something meaningful to Sentry.

Kuurth doesnt have enough magic in him to actually have Sentry in trouble neither does he have enough strength or cosmic powers to actually take Void down.

4.Morgana erased him with one move.

Morgana went into the past, came back prepped this time, to finally take down Sentry.

Even then Sentry just came back to life.

Why would Kuurth magic being anywhere close to as potent to Morgana, let alone more powerful.

4 different examples of Void being more than just hurt by magic. Until we belive that Void can cut off Kuurth from his power source, Void's enemy will just keep coming until Void will go down.

Firstly point was Kuurth magic itself is really very inadequate to really do anything against the Void.

As per could Void cut off Kuurth power source, perhaps. Not sure what takes to cut off power source from the Serpent, other than actually killing the Serpent, you might he able to cut off power source from Cyttorak.

Onslaught ripped the very gem out of his chest and imprisoned Juggernaut into the very gem, and we have also seen Juggernaut himself actually taken down by brute force so yeah there is that too.

Although my argument was more towards a possible stalemate.

Void isnt as vulnerable to magic as you expect, and Juggernaut isnt immune to harm himself. Both heal and heal at an incredible rate when they want to.

I see very little advantage for Juggernaut here.

#19 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17174 posts) - - Show Bio

@killemall:

1.LOL, I haven't even seen that You made a mistake, I was just pointing out which magic attacks were working on Void :-D

2.I am not denying Your arguments, but they didn't have as much time, as Kuurht will have. Void can't put him down in any means, but Kuurth still can affect Void. Void can't really be taken down by physical force nor telepathy. He can't be BFRd or manipulated in any means (matter or energy manip.). Only thing that can stun or even completly put him down is magic. In this case - magic attacks. My logic is going down to 2 facts: 1.Kuurth can't hurt of BFRd by any means. 2.Void can be hurt by Kuurth and he was defeated in this way before. Which leads me to conclusion, that sooner or later - Void will be defeated (even if he will back after some time, like when he came back after fight with Morgana).

#20 Edited by infectedhero (69 posts) - - Show Bio
#21 Posted by sophia89 (3821 posts) - - Show Bio

again in siege,he was only hurt after loki used the norn stones.

in fear itself thor beat both null,and angrir,and captain america with mjolnir beat sin,so the worthy werent stronger than thor,which the void was overpowering.

so kuurth's magic wont hurt void,on the other hand,void has mm,which will kill kuurth

#22 Posted by Blacharrt1 (751 posts) - - Show Bio

@sophia89 said:

@blacharrt1: he didnt lose it,it was taken away,when colosul said he would take it,after avx his sister said she could have taken it away with ease she just did that to show peter there were no snowflakes in hell,so kuurth is nowhere near a high lv demon,void should win easy,after scattering his molecules

you realize you just stated the exact same thing i just said... you're not correcting me you're agreeing with me...

#23 Posted by green_skaar (4415 posts) - - Show Bio

My money would be Void/Sentry.

#24 Posted by Killemall (18573 posts) - - Show Bio

@killemall:

1.LOL, I haven't even seen that You made a mistake, I was just pointing out which magic attacks were working on Void :-D

I understand, my point was thats insanely powerful mystical abilities, capable of warping entire time and reality, and even destroying them, if used wrongly. Look at Thor: Viking Saga, even with prep Dr. Strange knew there was nothing in his magic arsenal to actually overcome the magic of norn stones and all he could do was let the curse play itself out, that was the only way.

Its a very insanely powerful plot device used against Sentry/ Void, normally magic itself cant harm Void , let alone be seen as a viable way of victory when its not as powerful.

2.I am not denying Your arguments, but they didn't have as much time, as Kuurht will have. Void can't put him down in any means, but Kuurth still can affect Void. Void can't really be taken down by physical force nor telepathy. He can't be BFRd or manipulated in any means (matter or energy manip.). Only thing that can stun or even completly put him down is magic. In this case - magic attacks. My logic is going down to 2 facts: 1.Kuurth can't hurt of BFRd by any means. 2.Void can be hurt by Kuurth and he was defeated in this way before. Which leads me to conclusion, that sooner or later - Void will be defeated (even if he will back after some time, like when he came back after fight with Morgana).

1. Why cant Kuurth be hurt at all, Juggernaut has never really been completely immune to physical harm (i have been tracking down Juggernaut's appearence from last week.. just finishes his appearences up to 1997). He (Juggernaut) has been made to bleed, something i assume isnt possible without being able to hurt. Hulk, Prof Hulk, at that has actually knocked him flat out, i assume that was a bit PISy but well that happened. Onslaught has no problem putting him down, twice. Captain Universe knocked him out just as well.

And a totally non-canon instance, Wonder Woman defeated Juggernaut in Unlimited Access # 1.

Even going by Kurth, they did actually manage to burn his entire blood, so maybe he could have been hurt who knows.

2. There is a big difference between being hurt and being beaten, specially when the person in question is perfectly capable of actually healing. The dude brought his whole body back in the sun under Bendis, now under Rick Remender, Sentry was broken down into nothing but atoms and he still regenerated, constantly, till Void broke away.

Given he actually has pretty good durability, ability to heal, i dont really see Kuurth being able to put him down.

I see this more as a stalemate.

#25 Edited by sophia89 (3821 posts) - - Show Bio

@killemall: i dont understand,why do you think this is a stalemate?

#26 Posted by Killemall (18573 posts) - - Show Bio

@sophia89 said:

@killemall: i dont understand,why do you think this is a stalemate?

Well the power of Juggernaut, specially when Cyttorak is happy about what he is doing, is pretty scary. It is going to be pretty damn hard for Void to actually put him down.

#27 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17174 posts) - - Show Bio

@killemall:

0.I don't know NS too much TBH. Thx for info.

1.He was teleported to center of sun and black hole, he wasn't even hurt. You have to remember that from time to time Juggy was depowered and that Onslaught warped reality. And Cap Universe is Eternity's avatar, it is rather feat for him, that he can cut part of Cyttorak's power from MArko. And IMO it comes from his control over reality.

2.I am the last person who would say that there is no difference between that two things. I am talking about it a lot in battle threads, point was that Void can't actually hurt someone who can hurt him. Void's body can't really be hurt, but his essence, something beyond body was hurt by magic and he was already putted down by this way in the past. Imagine fight between indestructible Spider-Man and Hercules. No matter how Hercules will try, he won't KO Spider, but sooner or later Spider has to be able to KO Hercules. Let it be months or even a year, but he will win.

#28 Posted by sophia89 (3821 posts) - - Show Bio

so is this thread dead,or a result has been established,if it did then which one.

void curbstomp.

void wins baley.

kurth curbstomp.

kurth wins barley.

stalemate.

#29 Edited by SlimJ87D (9931 posts) - - Show Bio

Kuurth at full power meaning he still has Cytorak power should theoretically probably win.

Kuurth with only the hammers power will lose for sure.

#30 Edited by WillPayton (9455 posts) - - Show Bio

@sophia89 said:

so is this thread dead,or a result has been established,if it did then which one.

void curbstomp.

void wins baley.

kurth curbstomp.

kurth wins barley.

stalemate.

From the responses it looks to me like a stalemate... unless the pro-Void people want to further argue their point.

#31 Posted by sophia89 (3821 posts) - - Show Bio

i still havent seen any proof that kurth can stop being taken apart on a molecule lvl.

#32 Posted by pooty (11151 posts) - - Show Bio

@sophia89: @killemall: Killemall correct my memory. Didn't Dispayre try to reduce juggs to nothing but couldn't. I'm trying to determine if juggs can prevent molecular manipulation

#33 Posted by dum529001 (1624 posts) - - Show Bio

Seems like a stalemate. Both are pretty unstoppable.

#34 Posted by RetconCrisis (3855 posts) - - Show Bio

@czarny_samael666 said:

Magic was hurting Void and Sentry before, but they don't seem to be able to take away Kuurth's powers. Sooner or later Kuurth will win.

#35 Posted by green_skaar (4415 posts) - - Show Bio

What was Kuurth's best feats? Better than Void/Sentry's:

  • Having greater molecule manipulation raw power than Molecule Man
  • Can't die and be conscious while regenerating from a single atom.
  • Effortlessly contain Hulk and break every bone in his body.
  • Rip Ares in half
  • Kill Loki
#36 Edited by New_World_Order (13189 posts) - - Show Bio

Stalemate

#37 Posted by sophia89 (3821 posts) - - Show Bio

@pooty: molecule man>>>>>>>dispayre.

molecule man can create and destroy galaxies,fought and beat kubik.

dispayre is a demon that can induce fear,and gain power from that,he doesnt have any huge feats,dispayre is also vurnable to physical harm.

#38 Edited by Sebast_Allen (1477 posts) - - Show Bio

feats of kuurth

#39 Posted by lowlaville (4438 posts) - - Show Bio

Sentry is one of those god op guys. Still though, statemate? Or void stomps;

#40 Posted by Floopay (8721 posts) - - Show Bio

Void has telepathy last I checked, as well as immense speed, strength, and molecular manipulation. I don't really see Kuurth holding up to someone who can regenerate from complete molecular disintegration.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

#41 Posted by Experio (16029 posts) - - Show Bio
Online
#42 Edited by pooty (11151 posts) - - Show Bio

@sophia89: No one is questioning who is more powerful between MM and Despayre. I was asking does Juggs have ANY feats involving Molecular manipulation.

#43 Posted by sophia89 (3821 posts) - - Show Bio

@pooty: like you said the demon despayre absorbed his power and burned him to a skelton,juggernut healed,however he cant come back from total molecule destruction,if u dont belive me,here is what his offical marvel page says:

Immortality and Immunity: Cain is immortal[5]. He is not a millisecond past his absolute physical prime[5], and is immune to aging[5]. Nothing except perhaps total molecular disintegration, can kill Cain[5]. The Juggernaut is also immune to all toxins, poisons, and disease[5].

#44 Edited by sophia89 (3821 posts) - - Show Bio

although it also says if molecules from juggernut's body is in contact with the gem,he should heal.

so if he is taken apart on molecule lvl,he wont have enough to heal.

#45 Edited by pooty (11151 posts) - - Show Bio

@sophia89: Ok. Until further arguments are made then Void Sentry should win.

#46 Edited by sophia89 (3821 posts) - - Show Bio
#47 Posted by Killemall (18573 posts) - - Show Bio

@pooty said:

@sophia89: @killemall: Killemall correct my memory. Didn't Dispayre try to reduce juggs to nothing but couldn't. I'm trying to determine if juggs can prevent molecular manipulation

Sorry for the late reply, and yes D'spare did, and failed, so Juggernaut is likely resistent to molecular manipulation, although his history is very inconsistent and he was officially depowered less than a year from this point.

The issue in question is from Juggernaut Volume # 1 issue 1 (one shot) published in April 1997, but i wont be able to post scans until i get home (i am current away on work related issues so dont have access to my hard drive with all the details in it). I get back on Friday, if you want to scan just tag me by Friday and i can post the scans you are looking for.

#48 Posted by sophia89 (3821 posts) - - Show Bio

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/7/70453/1510444-136718_136696_nothingcnstpthjuggernaut_super_super.jpg

is this what you are talking about,he healed from skelton,and like his bio says aslong as he is in contact with the cyrstal he can heal,but getting destroyed on a molecule lvl is diff thing.