Korra vs. Zaheer, Ghazan & Ming Hua

Zaheer, Ghazan and Ming-Hua ambush Korra. Jinora, Ikki & Meelo have been taken hostage, and the only way to get them back is to beat the Red Lotus.

• No avatar state; Korra can bend 4 elements
• Win by KO
• Start 50 metres apart
• Ming-Hua is restricted to two arms
• Zaheer cannot fly
• Korra has 30 mins prep; she's aware of their bending capabilities

Fight take place in the crystal in the crystal catacombs

Can Korra take down all three powerful red lotus benders without going into the avatar state?

@pooty @koays@etheral_dreams@lunacyde@arcus@princearagorn1@juiceboks@killerwasp @metaljimmor @wbr17 @lvenger @nighthunder@rogueshadow@kidphillip@deathhero61@knightofzero@dextersinister@norrinboltagonprime21@solidwall211@scouter @thevivas @rijehu @comicstooge@redbird3rdboywonder@kaang_the_watcher@dreadpool10@arcus@hyperlight

Honestly I don't see her pulling this off. She could last for a while, probably get some shots in, but she's not winning

She maybe could take 1 down but not all four

She's not winning without the Avatar state.

Noob Zaheer + Ghazan who's restricted by the area + Ming Hua who's restricted to minimal water bending.

If Tenzin kept up pretty well vs the three of them I don't see why Korra couldn't give an even better fight...

That being said. I can't really think of a way how she'd win in character.

@redbird3rdboywonder: Think she could beat 3? Cause that's what the OP has against her...

@knightofzero: Zaheer had flight and they were fighting out in the open.

i dont think she can take this. she had problems with zhaeer (though she was poisoned, it didnt start affecting her ability to fight until later in the fight) and he could dodge almost all of her attacks

@knightofzero: she was dying from the start, how does that not affect your ability to fight?

P'Li is not a part of this. Its 3 v 1

@gxrevolution96: @boringperson: Well she could potentially pull it off if she fights smart, it will be extremely hard for her though

@arcus if you watched the fight, she was fighting like a brute though out a majority of the fight. there were no visible signs of it affecting her until later on

@knightofzero: even when she was still fighting how do we know it wasn't affecting her performance-her power, her accuracy, etc?

Honestly without P'li, Ghazan's lava being useless; air bending is lava's krytonite, and Zaheer being in a restricted area. Korra could very well do this. Not a full 10/10 mind you, but she takes the majority IMO.

@arcus there would have been visible hints that she was being affected. you could see when the poison was affecting her enough for it to interfere with her ability to fight

Still. Having that much toxic poison causing through your veins would have still had an effect on her body regardless. Keep in mind that most of the avatar state energy was keeping her alive. She may not have been able to channel the avatar state's maximum power at the time as it was also trying to keep her alive.

Korra's not winning this if she's not allowed to bring anyone in the 30 min. of prep..

She could probably take out 1 maybe 2 of the members if she can overpower them, but definitely not all 3. The RL are a formidable team with formidable team work.

Z'

@gxrevolution96 even then, avatar state is still pretty powerful otherwise. lets say that it uses 75% of its power. and there were about 1000 avatars before korra showed up. that is still the power of 250 avatars being channeled through her, and zhaeer managed to out maneuver and do well against her, taking very little damage. throw in the rest of his team (minus p'li) and they can do some serious damage to her

I don't think the Avatar state is cumulative in terms of pure power... Plus, didn't most of the Avatar experience get erased? (Thus the lack of Avatar Wan Wind Sphere?)

@gxrevolution96: Non-jobbing i feel they could actually take her, while jobbing well u saw what happened lol.

@boringperson the avatar state was cumulative because it is current avatar gaining access to the knowledge and power of the past avatars. so it stands to reason that the 10,000th avatar would have more power than the 3rd avatar

although you do bring a very good point with the past avatars being erased. i didnt even think about that. depending if that "weakened" the avatar state, then she would defiantly lose, though the show never really said anything about that one way or the other

The avatar state power comes from Raava, so the amount of power she could channel with the past lives is a little irrelevant.

Yeah, due to the fact that the fight took place in a wide open sky. He doesn't have that advantage here.

Lol.....um this is just type of situation you see Korra walk into heroically and think she might have a shot right before she gets overwhelmed and taken down.

Lotus wins

@knightofzero: There was not 1000 Avatars before Korra because the first Avatar appeared 10,000 years ago and that would mean every Avatar only lived to be 10. Kyoshi herself lived well beyond 200 so we know those numbers don't add up. I say there have probably been a few hundred.

Korra take this with hight difficulty. If P'Li were involved, It would be a complete different story. Korra would easily be able off Zaheer using 4 elements. He struggled against the metal clan guards and struggled against a handicapped Korra and Tanraq with limited water. Furthermore, Korra is already a much better airbender than him. Adding 3 more elements will secure it. Then it is just 2 v 1. Ghazan's lava will ineffective against Korra as airbending negates lava completely and turns it back into rock. Korra can then out manoeuvre Ghazan and KO him. Korra proceeds to stomp Ming Hua.

There is a reason why Korra was handicapped every time she went up against the red lotus. Tranquillised, stuck in the spirit world, cuffed, being poisoned. Coincidence. I think not.

Tenzin dominated Zaheer and held his own against the three of them, before P'Li shot him. Bloodlusted Korra, determined to save her little brother and sisters easily takes this,

Korra waterbending>Ming-Hua

Korra airbending > Zaheer

Korra earth and firebending>Ghazan

Korra stomps

Korra takes it with difficult in my opinion. She is already an aggressive fighter and her "go get em" attitude would be a perfect counter for the intimidation tactics of the Red Lotus.

Korra has shown herself to be a very powerful bender of Fire, Earth, and Water even outside of the Avatar State. Air is her newest element but even with that, she can create powerful and concussive bursts to knock back opponents.

Her favorite choice, (probably due to her personality) is Fire. Korra is already more than agile enough to deal with Ming Hua's movement and the fast and dexterous way she uses fire will eventually overwhelm Ming Hua who usually blocks with her arms and those eventually need to be restored, in which case Korra can subdue her with any element. Even if Ming Hua fights from within the water source, I don't see her overpowering Korra because of Korra's own control of water and her aggression in battle.

Ghazan has been shown to be weak against simultaneous attacks when he fought Mako and Bolin. Korra can easily evade his lava because she is always moving about anyway and she can pull water from the streams to cool the lava, and to attack Ghazan. Because she can bend all 4 elements, Korra will most likely switch up the one she manipulates to throw Ghazan off and subdue him by catching him off guard with her. She is also a pretty powerful earth bender herself and can probably outdo him with just the element, though it won't be easy because of Ghazan's skill.

Though still formidable, Zaheer already proved he isn't as much of a threat to her when he isn't flying. Korra was still giving him trouble even when she was chained at the Air Temple. Him being limited to the ground means he is susceptible to the earth and water in the environment. Even with his fast and powerful wind blasts and gusts, I don't see him being able to counter Korra's own fast bending techniques or the different elements she can use at any given time. Not to mention the fact that we saw Korra tank a point blank explosion by creating an air shield that not only protected her, but the other members of the team as well. Her Air bending is pretty powerful when it needs to be and even though Zaheer may be the most agile of the group, he is surrounded by Korra's playground due to her being able to bend anything he is near including the air. He too will eventually be subdued.

The thing Korra has over any of the benders is variety and the power packed behind that variety with the aggression she fights with is what ultimately gives her the win against the Red Lotus in my opinion. Sure she will get scuffed up and roughed up, but the way I see it, Korra likes that kind of challenge. Then the fact that Korra has a reason to fight, such as Tenzin's children being held hostage, she is definitely going to give it all she has, which I think will be enough.

And because P'Li isn't here, I feel that this gives her an even greater advantage. If Tenzin was tossing these three around with just air, and Korra has access to all 4 elements with her mobility and fierce fighting style, I definitely think she takes the Red Lotus down after a good, good fight.

@knightofzero:

The fact that she was in the Avatar state is an effect of the poison, since it was only to keep her alive

Also she didn't have access to her past lives

I don't think Korra can win this, for several reasons.

1) The Red Lotus team has a lot of teamwork and experience on their side. Even if Korra has prep, there's not much she can do with it. She's not exactly a tactical genius.

2) Nobody ever really managed to match Ghazan 1v1 until Bolin learned lavabending. Before then, he was pretty much the powerhouse of the team.

3) Tenzin didn't nearly beat the three of them, as some have been saying. He took on Zaheer in an equal match, but it was all he could do to survive for a few minutes when it became 3v1.

4) Korra couldn't beat Zaheer alone when she was bloodlusted in the Avatar State. I mean, yeah, he had an extra power then he doesn't have in this fight, and Korra was being weakened by the poison, but I don't think those two facts totally discount this point.

@gxrevolution96 the video says that the avatar state is "designed to empower you with the skill and knowledge of all the past avatars" and that "it is a combination of all of your past lives". nothing about raava. ie, more past lives=more power. if korra cant acess her past lives, that would only maker her avatar state weaker and easier for the team to win

@arcus the avatar state was triggered by the poison. Its purpose was to keep the poison at bay, and from the looks of it, it was doing a pretty good job at doing that. Up until later, its affects on her were minimal. You can see that when it actually starts to affect her that she starts to feel extreme pain and and inability to concentrate enough to bend. However, before that part, she was flying around, hurling giant bolder like it was nothing. if the poison was affecting her performance throughout that fight, it was very minor.

2A, He only went 1 on 1 with Bolin and Bumi.

2B Air>Lava, Aang already proved this. Also Lava bending would be the worst thing to do in such a closed environment, especially so near his allies.

3. Tenzin and Zaheer's fight was not under any circumstance equal. All Zaheer could do was run, and had it not been for P'li he would have been put down.

Look at 0:49

3. 1:00 - 1:10, look how's he's only surviving *Note P'li had just shot him down, and had to do so again to really put hem down.

4) Korra couldn't beat Zaheer alone when she was bloodlusted in the Avatar State. I mean, yeah, he had an extra power then he doesn't have in this fight, and Korra was being weakened by the poison, but I don't think those two facts totally discount this point.

But they totally do though, she was being poisoned with freakin mercury, and yet again all he really could do was run, and he was only able to do that do to the battle enviroment. He doesn't have that here. Quite the opposite really.

@knightofzero:

Considering we've never seen her in full, bloodlusted Avatar State like that we have no way to compare for sure, however imo it seems illogical to assume that she was at peak condition during any part of that fight

@arcus if it wasnt her peak, then it was pretty close

@knightofzero: we don't know for sure. Even if her power was good, that doesn't mean she was thinking clearly (imo she wasn't coherent at all), attacking accurately, etc

@thatguywithheadphones:

He only went 1 on 1 with Bolin and Bumi.

Nevertheless, nobody all season even came close to beating him until Bolin learned lavabending.

Air>Lava, Aang already proved this.

When? Aang never fought a lavabender.

Also Lava bending would be the worst thing to do in such a closed environment, especially so near his allies.

That environment is actually relatively open. Aang, Katara, Toph, Zuko, Azula, the Dai Lee, and Iroh were all fighting in there in Book 2, and it wasn't crowded.
Besides, it's not like they've had a problem being in close proximity to his lava before.

Tenzin and Zaheer's fight was not under any circumstance equal. All Zaheer could do was run, and had it not been for P'li he would have been put down.

Yes, Zaheer spent the first part of the fight running. I think it was because he was picking where he wanted to fight. He didn't want to play into Tenzin's hands. After he stopped running, their fight was pretty equal.

look how's he's only surviving *Note P'li had just shot him down, and had to do so again to really put hem down.

Yeah. P'li shot him down. Then he got surrounded, dodged a few attacks, hit one person with an air blast, and got shot down again. You really can't say those three seconds of fighting is an accurate representation of how a full-on 3v1 fight would have gone.

But they totally do though, she was being poisoned with freakin mercury, and yet again all he really could do was run, and he was only able to do that do to the battle enviroment. He doesn't have that here. Quite the opposite really.

Yeah, she was poisoned, but some of her bending feats in that fight are among the most impressive bending feats she's ever had. The Avatar State had her 'roided out Hulk-mode. She didn't feel any serious effects of the poison until a few minutes into the fight. But before she started feeling the effects, that was Korra like we've never seen her before.
So you really can't say the mercury was seriously effecting her bending abilities from the very beginning, when some of her best bending feats come from that fight.

And, like I said, the crystal catacombs are actually relatively spacious.

@

Now this is just my opinion but...

You have to take those quotes with a grain of salt because technically speaking, it wouldn't make much sense for every new Avatar to have the combined power of the previous Avatars, that would be RIDICULOUSLY overpowered due to there being hundreds of Avatars before Aang and Korra. Using that logic, any Avatar from at least Yang Chin would have the power to literally shift the planet as whole. Any Avatar in the past several lives would be able to solo the planet with one element, let alone all 4.

For example, If Wan could blast fire that was a large as Vaatu, then the second Avatar should have been able to shoot blasts at least TWICE as large as Vaatu and so on...If Kyoshi could spilt an island sized chunk of land from the mainland, then Roku should have been able to do AT LEAST twice the powerful display of that feat whil Aang can triple that and Korra could quadruple it. Yet we see that the bending isn't progessing on that massive level and infact Kyoshi who is now 3 Avatars back, still has the most impressive display of power that dwarfs any others we have seen as far as raw power and apllication goes, yet she is not conidered the "most powerful avatar" because of the skills and knowledge those after her gined form her own lifetime.

I don't think the Avatar's power level is "stacked" or multiplied in the way we would like to think it is. A "combination of the past lives" doesn't mean a stacking of power in that manner.

The Avatar him or herself, is just a unique individual who can bend all 4 elements, and who is the only one capable of containing Raava within themselves. That bender, however, is literally just an Avatar: a means by which Raava can interact in the physical realm, and the personification of the Earth. Althout they are one in body, Raava is still an individual spirit who happens to bond with every new Avatar.

It is Raava that grants the power boost to the Avatar, and within Raava, is the experiences, knowledge, and skill of the past Avatars, but their "bending power" is not simply carried over and stacked onto the new one. Because of the experiences and knowledge gained from a previous life, every new Avatar is more "powerful" in the sense that they have a 1 UP on the previous life and can search within themselves, such as Aang did, to manifest this kowledge an use it to their bidding. This is also why Aang had to learn how to "control" the Avatar State because although he and Raava were bonded, they are still two different spirits that had to learn to work in unison.

That Avatar State (The actual Avatar Being) is activated when Raava merges with the spirit of the Avatar vessel and grants it her own power and enhancements. The "level" of bending we see is all Raava, NOT the a combination of the past Avatars. However, the dynamics of the bending and the ways in which it can be applied and utilized is the "power, skill, and experience" that is spoken of. Not to mention that the current Avatar can find news ways to apply bending like discovering subskills, this is what makes them more "powerful". They possess a spirit that contains all the life experiences of indiivudals who themselves had new and different experiences than the last.

Each new Avatar is automatically more experienced than the last, and can also add to to that with their own life expereinces. This is what makes the more "powerful".

@kaang_the_watcher

Nobody ever really managed to match Ghazan 1v1 until Bolin learned lavabending. Before then, he was pretty much the powerhouse of the team.

Airbending completely counters lava bending, so it is more a less a non factor

Nevertheless, nobody all season even came close to beating him until Bolin learned lavabending.

Because he never went about against anyone remotely on his level, or a master airbender who can easily counter his lava. Remember, Ghazan's lavbending is big aspect of his abilities and is very reliant in it. Without Lavabending, Bolon would beat him effortlessly

When? Aang never fought a lavabender.

He fought lava when he battle the volcano in Aunt Wu's village. Way more lava than Ghazan has ever bent.

Yes, Zaheer spent the first part of the fight running. I think it was because he was picking where he wanted to fight. He didn't want to play into Tenzin's hands. After he stopped running, their fight was pretty equal.

Tenzin was superior than Zaheer in every way. For instance, If you watch the part where they're scaling the wall, Tenzin gets so much more elevation than Zaheer because his technique is just flat out better. Zaheer was using airbending to augment his normal jumps, which meant he had to clamber up the roofs. Tenzin was did it effoertlell and was using spiralling movements and was letting the air carry him. He became the leaf and used his robes to let the air take him up entirely. Tenzin incorporates the teaching of airbending completely, he goes with the flow, he circles around the opponent, he goes with the wind, it is natural. Zaheer just added it to his already existing fighting stile. style creating straight jets of air.

Zaheer is a good natural bender and great fighter. But the reason he always looks great against other benders is because no one he faces has fought an air bender or has any idea what to expect, so Zaheer is able to overpower them pretty quickly.

@rijehu: well said @kaang_the_watcher:

Tenzin vs Zaheer was never even

Obviously Korra would have some impressive bending feats from her fight with Zaheer, it was the only time we've seen her in extended Avatar State. It doesn't make sense that dying wouldn't hinder her at all

@rijehu Wow. You really hit the nail on the head. I completely agree. Wan mentioned something along the lines of "When you pass through me, I feel an incredible rush of power". The avatar state is just a state where the human's spirit is completely in sync with Raava's essence. It is why Korra has to enter the avatar state to open/close the portals. In the AS, Raava's immense spiritual energy is channeled through the human's body all at once, which augments their bending capabilities, giving them the power to move large landmasses and erupt volcanoes.

Though Raava may provide unrivalled power, the power itself is so immense that can strain the human's body. It requires patience and discipline to control it, which is what Roku's teacher stressed the importance of. The Avatar needs to remain composed, which is why entering the state in such an emotional way is not recommended.

@avatarreiko:

Without Lavabending, Bolon would beat him effortlessly

There is no evidence to back that up. Ghazan is very relient on lavabending, but his basic earthbening abilities are good too. In the final fight, when he face Bolin 1v1 for the second time, they were equally matched even in the beginning when Ghazan was just using regular rocks.

He fought lava when he battle the volcano in Aunt Wu's village. Way more lava than Ghazan has ever bent.

Taking on lava and taking on a lavabender are very different things. Aang once used airbending to shatter a giant rock missle from a Fire Nation ship. Does that mean airbending completely counters earthbending too?
The lava Aang 'fought' wasn't being controlled, manipulated, and thrown around by somebody else.

For instance, If you watch the part where they're scaling the wall, Tenzin gets so much more elevation than Zaheer because his technique is just flat out better. Zaheer was using airbending to augment his normal jumps, which meant he had to clamber up the roofs. Tenzin was did it effoertlell and was using spiralling movements and was letting the air carry him. He became the leaf and used his robes to let the air take him up entirely. Tenzin incorporates the teaching of airbending completely, he goes with the flow, he circles around the opponent, he goes with the wind, it is natural. Zaheer just added it to his already existing fighting stile. style creating straight jets of air.

Well yeah, Tenzin was better. I'm not saying he wasn't.
However, Tenzin wasn't stomping Zaheer. He would have beaten him, had the fight gone on interrupted long enough, but Zaheer was making it a hard fight for him.

Zaheer is a good natural bender and great fighter. But the reason he always looks great against other benders is because no one he faces has fought an air bender or has any idea what to expect, so Zaheer is able to overpower them pretty quickly.

He beat Kya and Korra. Korra was an airbender herself (meaning she had experience sparring with Tenzin) and Kya grew up with an airbending father and brother.

@kaang_the_watcher

He beat Kya and Korra. Korra was an airbender herself (meaning she had experience sparring with Tenzin) and Kya grew up with an airbending father and brother.

In all fairness, Korra was handicapped on both occasions.

@arcus: They fought briefly at the Air Temple before P'li interrupted.
The fight didn't last long at all, but Zaheer didn't appear to be severly outmatched.

@gxrevolution96 The poison didn't seem to really start effecting her until a few minutes into the fight. Before that point, I don't think we can really say she was very handicapped, since she had some of the greatest bending feats we've ever seen from her in that fight.

Korra will end up like Tenzin when he lost against the three.

Except that Korra has more options in that she can bend 4 elements

Each one of the red lotus gang are masters of their bending, and Korra isn't the best at fire bending, so we can leave that out. Ming Hua would be the least threat to her. Zaheer would be enough of trouble. Add Ghazan, and Ming Hua, then that's just too much for a non avatar state Korra. If they were closer by meters then Korra can maybe catch at least one of them by surprise, but there at enough distance to defend themselves, and to compose a formation.

@kaang_the_watcher:

Umm yeah he kinda did. Tenzin landed multiple hits, and Zaheer couldn't touch him.

The first half of their fight was Zaheer running to try to change the battlefield. Then they got up on the bridge and went through a few seconds of mutual blast-dodge-blast-dodge. Then Zaheer got tricky with his agility. Then Tenzin hit him with a solid blast. Then P'li butted in and blindsided Tenzin.