#1 Edited by Thedarklordpandamonium (4825 posts) - - Show Bio

Combatants:

Strongest Knightmare Frame (whichever one you think it is, lot of controversy here) w/best Pilot

vs

Strongest Iron Man (Bleeding Edge, Hulkbuster...whichever.)

Rules:

No prep (different universes)

Battleground is neutral territory

Suzaku is Geass-boosted

If using Lelouch, he isn't dead

Iron Man is immune to EMPs

No FLEIJAs

#2 Edited by New_World_Order (13189 posts) - - Show Bio

Bump.

#3 Posted by JediXMan (30618 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm a major Code Geass fan. I want that to be clear.

Tony stomps.

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#4 Edited by JediXMan (30618 posts) - - Show Bio

Also, the Guran SEITEN is the strongest Knightmare frame. Second is the Lancelot Albion. Third is probably the Shen Hu.

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#5 Posted by Thedarklordpandamonium (4825 posts) - - Show Bio

Why do you think Tony stomps?

Most people see the Guren SEITEN as more powerful, but the Lancelot Albion as more versatile. Basically the same with their pilots.

#6 Posted by Superbot400 (420 posts) - - Show Bio

Why do you think Tony stomps?

Most people see the Guren SEITEN as more powerful, but the Lancelot Albion as more versatile. Basically the same with their pilots.

You are using the Strongest Iron Men.

You know like Extremis Iron Man which technopathy powers. There is also anti-transformer version of Iron Man, when Iron Man creates armor that take on Megatron, and has extremis armor overlayed on that.

There S.K.I.N which is low grade adamantium armor Iron Man.

Hulkbuster can fight WWH, and can do fight WWH, and hit across miles. Which has his Extremis armor on top of that.

Thor Buster which is capable of going toe to toe with King Thor. Which he has classic red and gold armor over-layed on the Thorbuster, if Thorbuster is destroyed.

Destroyer Iron Man, who is power enough to beat the Serpent's worthy. AKA A worthy can beat up Rulk, and give Thor trouble. It's made out of Uru, stuff that made Thor's hammer. It's essentially bleeding edge coated with Asgardian metal.

Hyperveolocity Iron Man, which is a super computer Iron Man with superhuman speed. The type that can speedblitz people, and reaction at a faster timeframe than everybody. The idea is that he can think at a hyper velocity rate. He can percieve everything faster than a normal human would.

#7 Edited by Thedarklordpandamonium (4825 posts) - - Show Bio

Yeah, I don't know all the different suits...I mean, if it's going to have some sort of unobtanium layered over it, I'd stop there.

But technopathy and things like that -I mean, you could make the argument that you could just put Lelouch in the Sigfried and have him technopath Iron Man. Since they're from different universes, technopathy is iffy at best.

#8 Posted by JediXMan (30618 posts) - - Show Bio

Why do you think Tony stomps?

Most people see the Guren SEITEN as more powerful, but the Lancelot Albion as more versatile. Basically the same with their pilots.

Suzaku and Kallen outright said that the upgraded S.E.I.T.E.N. has better specs than the Albion.

Also, I don't know how the Albion is necessarily more versatile. Guren has range, strength, melee, and speed that all match the Albion. They each moved faster than any other Knightmare on the battlefield.

The reason is that Tony has greater agility, more intelligence, and the potential ability to hack the Knightmare suits.

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#9 Posted by Superbot400 (420 posts) - - Show Bio

Yeah, I don't know all the different suits...I mean, if it's going to have some sort of unobtanium layered over it, I'd stop there.

I just saying that most "Buster" models have external gear on top of Iron Man regular suits. So when he wears Hulkbuster, Thor Buster, Transformer Buster,etc. Like if you see Hulkbuster art, you see Iron Man's face within a mask. He is pretty much prepared for the worst.

Technopathic powers, it's just rather or not Knightmares have defensive for it. He can hack alien tech if he wants, he can hack the entire world worth, and even call satellites down on people.

#10 Edited by Thedarklordpandamonium (4825 posts) - - Show Bio

@jedixman said:

@thedarklordpandamonium said:

Why do you think Tony stomps?

Most people see the Guren SEITEN as more powerful, but the Lancelot Albion as more versatile. Basically the same with their pilots.

Suzaku and Kallen outright said that the upgraded S.E.I.T.E.N. has better specs than the Albion.

Also, I don't know how the Albion is necessarily more versatile. Guren has range, strength, melee, and speed that all match the Albion. They each moved faster than any other Knightmare on the battlefield.

The reason is that Tony has greater agility, more intelligence, and the potential ability to hack the Knightmare suits.

Well, the thing is that the Guren SEITEN literally has one job, which is one-on-one knightmare frame combat; they said as much. It consumes a ridiculous amount of power, while the Albion is more of an actual war machine. I mean, Suzaku was fighting for hours before their fight whereas Kallen was more or less fresh off the boat and they lost power at the same time...

(moreover, in the manga it's stated that Lelouch's Shinkirou would easily defeat the Guren SEITEN b/c Lelouch could very easily block every attack due to his superior mind and the SEITEN would easily lose power)

Also, superbot -like I don't deny that Tony COULD be able to hack the frames, but without any prep (which this fight is)...?

I honestly really doubt he'd be able to hack them on the fly.

And the Guren SEITEN and Lancelot Albion seem more powerful (freaking hadron cannons) than anything Stark has. Moreover, Lelouch just seems waaaay smarter.

#11 Posted by JediXMan (30618 posts) - - Show Bio

@thedarklordpandamonium:

The thing is, you asked in the OP which was the strongest / most powerful. That doesn't have to do with how long they last, necessarily. The SEITEN has greater power output, speed and agility that matches the Albion. Yes, the Lancelot Albion may last longer and probably has better shields, but the question as to which is more powerful goes to the SEITEN.

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#12 Edited by Superbot400 (420 posts) - - Show Bio


Also, superbot -like I don't deny that Tony COULD be able to hack the frames, but without any prep (which this fight is)...?

I honestly really doubt he'd be able to hack them on the fly.

And the Guren SEITEN and Lancelot Albion seem more powerful (freaking hadron cannons) than anything Stark has. Moreover, Lelouch just seems waaaay smarter.

What makes you think Tony Stark can't hack on the fly? This dude could summon satellites on Dr.Doom's castle, while fighting Dr.Doom at the same time. Recently has summon Jupiter's sallties on Magneto in their AvsX. This is the same dude that could fight at super speed, while doing other tasks. His brain isn't human, his arc reactor grants super intelligence due to that arc reactor powers his armor. Iron Man isn't just a guy in a suit, he is essentially a cyborg now a days due to his arc reactor.

He has computer A.I like Jarvis, Peppers,etc to hack the computer systems of frames for him. Tony Stark is known to be a guy that always fights on the fly. That always make up solution while being the underdog a lot of times. This is the same guy that could beat Namor while losing his intelligence and being unable to use his advanced armors. This is the guy that made could hack Dr.Doom's castle when he he found out in seconds that King Thor vs Iron Man was a set-up by Doom? Or He could hack Reed Richard's Cloc that he created for Sentry.

As Extremis he is a biological super computer, he doesn't even need to put much effort. He just needs to think, and he will try to control the armor suits. He can control anything due to him being technopathy. . As for Leouch being smarter I doubt it, given that Tony Stark is one of the few men in the world that could beat Reed Richard in chess. Or the fact that arc reactor/extremis grants Stark superhuman brain power.

#13 Edited by Thedarklordpandamonium (4825 posts) - - Show Bio

@superbot400 said:

@thedarklordpandamonium said:


Also, superbot -like I don't deny that Tony COULD be able to hack the frames, but without any prep (which this fight is)...?

I honestly really doubt he'd be able to hack them on the fly.

And the Guren SEITEN and Lancelot Albion seem more powerful (freaking hadron cannons) than anything Stark has. Moreover, Lelouch just seems waaaay smarter.

What makes you think Tony Stark can't hack on the fly? This dude could summon satellites on Dr.Doom's castle, while fighting Dr.Doom at the same time. Recently has summon Jupiter's sallties on Magneto in their AvsX. This is the same dude that could fight at super speed, while doing other tasks. His brain isn't human, his arc reactor grants super intelligence due to that arc reactor powers his armor. Iron Man isn't just a guy in a suit, he is essentially a cyborg now a days due to his arc reactor.

He has computer A.I like Jarvis, Peppers,etc to hack the computer systems of frames for him. Tony Stark is known to be a guy that always fights on the fly. That always make up solution while being the underdog a lot of times. This is the same guy that could beat Namor while losing his intelligence and being unable to use his advanced armors. This is the guy that made could hack Dr.Doom's castle when he he found out in seconds that King Thor vs Iron Man was a set-up by Doom? Or He could hack Reed Richard's Cloc that he created for Sentry.

As Extremis he is a biological super computer, he doesn't even need to put much effort. He just needs to think, and he will try to control the armor suits. He can control anything due to him being technopathy. . As for Leouch being smarter I doubt it, given that Tony Stark is one of the few men in the world that could beat Reed Richard in chess. Or the fact that arc reactor/extremis grants Stark superhuman brain power.

Hm...however, Dr.Doom's castle was at least of his own planet. From what we've seen of FRAME techology, the Yggdrasil drive and especially the Siegfried, I find it hard to believe that he'd be able to hack it while being pressured by constant Hadron cannon bursts.

And I agree that Stark and Lelouch are the smartest in their respective universes, but they are from separate universes. :/

@jedixman: Well...more powerful, in this case, just meaning better I guess.

#14 Posted by The Stegman (24407 posts) - - Show Bio

Tony in my opinion wins. He's more agile and maneuverable, plus I think his standard gear is stronger than most Knightmare's standard gear (not counting F.L.E.I.J.As)

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#15 Edited by Superbot400 (420 posts) - - Show Bio

My point is that Tony was battling Dr.Doom, and was his computer were summoning orbital strikes at Doom's castle at the same time. He can do two things at once, Extermis does not make Tony's a normal human being.


He has multi-tasking powers.

http://i1235.photobucket.com/albums/ff425/superbot400/Iron%20Man/Imagebot/Intelligence%20%20Extermis/img009.jpg

He is essentially a human super computer.

http://s1235.photobucket.com/user/superbot400/media/Iron%20Man/Imagebot/eDbcV.jpg.html

It's not hard to believe that Tony could be beating FRAME mechs, and at the same time is sub-consciously trying to hack somebody.

#16 Posted by JediXMan (30618 posts) - - Show Bio

Hm...however, Dr.Doom's castle was at least of his own planet. From what we've seen of FRAME techology, the Yggdrasil drive and especially the Siegfried, I find it hard to believe that he'd be able to hack it while being pressured by constant Hadron cannon bursts.

And I agree that Stark and Lelouch are the smartest in their respective universes, but they are from separate universes. :/

Hadron Can...

What Knightmare are you using? The SEITEN, the Albion, the Mordred... what?! Please be consistent. If it's the Guren, the Guren never had a Hadron cannon. While I did read that the Lancelot Albion was equipped with a Hadron cannon, I have seen no proof of this; what it had did not look like a Hadron Cannon. The beam from the Hadron Cannon is red and black, not blue and white. I have seen no official proof that what the Albion was equipped with was anything more than a stronger version of the VARIS blaster.

Lelouch is tactical. He can't design equipment and he's a rather bad pilot; his best feat is his ability to control the shields on the Shinkiro (not counting his calculations involving the FLEIJA, since I'm not counting that as a piloting feat). Tony is essentially a combination of Lelouch's tactical abilities and Lloyd's / Rakshata's ability to invent technology - though Tony figured out flight stabilization much quicker than they did. Tony is more similar to Lloyd if we're comparing universes.

Also, the Siegfried is not a Knightmare Frame, at least not in the typical sense. It's an offshoot of the Knightmare, but it is designated as a Knight Giga Fortress. Knightmares are mechs, whereas the Siegfried is, simply put, a flying tank in every sense.

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#17 Posted by Thedarklordpandamonium (4825 posts) - - Show Bio

@jedixman said:

@thedarklordpandamonium said:

Hm...however, Dr.Doom's castle was at least of his own planet. From what we've seen of FRAME techology, the Yggdrasil drive and especially the Siegfried, I find it hard to believe that he'd be able to hack it while being pressured by constant Hadron cannon bursts.

And I agree that Stark and Lelouch are the smartest in their respective universes, but they are from separate universes. :/

Hadron Can...

What Knightmare are you using? The SEITEN, the Albion, the Mordred... what?! Please be consistent. If it's the Guren, the Guren never had a Hadron cannon. While I did read that the Lancelot Albion was equipped with a Hadron cannon, I have seen no proof of this; what it had did not look like a Hadron Cannon. The beam from the Hadron Cannon is red and black, not blue and white. I have seen no official proof that what the Albion was equipped with was anything more than a stronger version of the VARIS blaster.

Lelouch is tactical. He can't design equipment and he's a rather bad pilot; his best feat is his ability to control the shields on the Shinkiro (not counting his calculations involving the FLEIJA, since I'm not counting that as a piloting feat). Tony is essentially a combination of Lelouch's tactical abilities and Lloyd's / Rakshata's ability to invent technology - though Tony figured out flight stabilization much quicker than they did. Tony is more similar to Lloyd if we're comparing universes.

Also, the Siegfried is not a Knightmare Frame, at least not in the typical sense. It's an offshoot of the Knightmare, but it is designated as a Knight Giga Fortress. Knightmares are mechs, whereas the Siegfried is, simply put, a flying tank in every sense.

Flip, I forgot the SEITEN uses some wacky radiation thingy that just happens to look more or less exactly like a Hadron cannon.

Lelouch isn't actually a very bad pilot; his mind is incredibly advanced. As they've shown, he's the only being, mechanical or otherwise, capable of inputting the necessary sensory data in for the Shinkiro's absolute defense system, and as well for the FLEIJA thing...

...the FLEIJA feat has never really been compounded on. What Lelouch essentially did was create a nuclear fission reaction exactly opposite that of the FLEIJA at that exact nanosecond in those exact environmental factors -which is more than any supercomputer we have or will have for hundreds of years could do. That shows that his mind is easily on par with, if not by far more capable, than that of Stark's.

And I count the Siegfried as a Knightmare Frame; 'knight giga fortress' is pretty much just a cool name to me. The reason that I bring it up is that it basically needed a nuclear explosion to the face to even get through its armor, and that while facing full assault from dozens of other FRAMEs -and that was with a really bad pilot. With Lelouch manning it, it would easily decimate Stark, I'm thinking.

#18 Posted by JediXMan (30618 posts) - - Show Bio

Flip, I forgot the SEITEN uses some wacky radiation thingy that just happens to look more or less exactly like a Hadron cannon.

Lelouch isn't actually a very bad pilot; his mind is incredibly advanced. As they've shown, he's the only being, mechanical or otherwise, capable of inputting the necessary sensory data in for the Shinkiro's absolute defense system, and as well for the FLEIJA thing...

...the FLEIJA feat has never really been compounded on. What Lelouch essentially did was create a nuclear fission reaction exactly opposite that of the FLEIJA at that exact nanosecond in those exact environmental factors -which is more than any supercomputer we have or will have for hundreds of years could do. That shows that his mind is easily on par with, if not by far more capable, than that of Stark's.

And I count the Siegfried as a Knightmare Frame; 'knight giga fortress' is pretty much just a cool name to me. The reason that I bring it up is that it basically needed a nuclear explosion to the face to even get through its armor, and that while facing full assault from dozens of other FRAMEs -and that was with a really bad pilot. With Lelouch manning it, it would easily decimate Stark, I'm thinking.

Radiant Wave. The difference is that the color of the Wave is red/orange and the Hadron Cannon is red/black.

He's a bad pilot. Who has he ever beaten, aside from cannon fodder - who, mind you, he only beat at long range with the Hadron cannon or the Shinkiro's central beam. He had the Gawain, an extremely advanced suit, and still got owned by Cornelia (a bloodlusted Cornelia, but she was still in a Knightmare that was vastly inferior). I acknowledge his ability to make the necessary calculations to control the shield, but that has more to do with his personal intellect than piloting abilities.

Stark's mind is a literal super computer, who was capable of making calculations that exceed super computers. He also managed to beat Reed Richards in, I believe, 6 games of Chess at once. He has tactical, mathematical, industrial, and scientific knowledge. Lelouch just has the tactical and mathematical, which might even be surpassed by Stark.

Are you referring to the Siegfried, piloted by V.V., or the Sutherland, which was piloted by Jeremiah? Either way, neither needed a "nuclear explosion" to destroy it. The Hadron Cannon =/= nuke. The Mordred destroyed the Sutherland, the the Siegfried was destroyed by surface-to-air cannons combined with Lelouch's forces. Back when Jeremiah used the Siegfried, it was incapacitated when C.C. crashed it into the Pacific.

Still, neither can compare to the Albion's or SEITEN's abilities. The only area that they might surpass it is in the durability department, but their shields might be stronger than the Sutherland armor.

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#19 Posted by Thedarklordpandamonium (4825 posts) - - Show Bio

@jedixman said:
@thedarklordpandamonium said:

Flip, I forgot the SEITEN uses some wacky radiation thingy that just happens to look more or less exactly like a Hadron cannon.

Lelouch isn't actually a very bad pilot; his mind is incredibly advanced. As they've shown, he's the only being, mechanical or otherwise, capable of inputting the necessary sensory data in for the Shinkiro's absolute defense system, and as well for the FLEIJA thing...

...the FLEIJA feat has never really been compounded on. What Lelouch essentially did was create a nuclear fission reaction exactly opposite that of the FLEIJA at that exact nanosecond in those exact environmental factors -which is more than any supercomputer we have or will have for hundreds of years could do. That shows that his mind is easily on par with, if not by far more capable, than that of Stark's.

And I count the Siegfried as a Knightmare Frame; 'knight giga fortress' is pretty much just a cool name to me. The reason that I bring it up is that it basically needed a nuclear explosion to the face to even get through its armor, and that while facing full assault from dozens of other FRAMEs -and that was with a really bad pilot. With Lelouch manning it, it would easily decimate Stark, I'm thinking.

Radiant Wave. The difference is that the color of the Wave is red/orange and the Hadron Cannon is red/black.

He's a bad pilot. Who has he ever beaten, aside from cannon fodder - who, mind you, he only beat at long range with the Hadron cannon or the Shinkiro's central beam. He had the Gawain, an extremely advanced suit, and still got owned by Cornelia (a bloodlusted Cornelia, but she was still in a Knightmare that was vastly inferior). I acknowledge his ability to make the necessary calculations to control the shield, but that has more to do with his personal intellect than piloting abilities.

Stark's mind is a literal super computer, who was capable of making calculations that exceed super computers. He also managed to beat Reed Richards in, I believe, 6 games of Chess at once. He has tactical, mathematical, industrial, and scientific knowledge. Lelouch just has the tactical and mathematical, which might even be surpassed by Stark.

Are you referring to the Siegfried, piloted by V.V., or the Sutherland, which was piloted by Jeremiah? Either way, neither needed a "nuclear explosion" to destroy it. The Hadron Cannon =/= nuke. The Mordred destroyed the Sutherland, the the Siegfried was destroyed by surface-to-air cannons combined with Lelouch's forces. Back when Jeremiah used the Siegfried, it was incapacitated when C.C. crashed it into the Pacific.

Still, neither can compare to the Albion's or SEITEN's abilities. The only area that they might surpass it is in the durability department, but their shields might be stronger than the Sutherland armor.

I'm sticking to the idea that Lelouch's processing power is higher than that of Stark's because of the FLEIJA feat. :/

I have no idea where I got the nuclear explosion thing from. The Siegfried by VV, was only destroyed after it was hit by a plot-device weak point which VV only exposed because he could. Other than that, a building fell on it and it survived literally without a scratch, it wasn't at all affected by going a thousand feet down into the ocean, and it got bombarded by hadron cannon blasts and didn't care whatsoever. Its durability is off the charts, the defensive capabilities easily more than the Shinkirou. Moreover, the agility that it displayed was obscene -probably more than that of Iron Man, honestly.

#20 Posted by JediXMan (30618 posts) - - Show Bio

I have no idea where I got the nuclear explosion thing from. The Siegfried by VV, was only destroyed after it was hit by a plot-device weak point which VV only exposed because he could. Other than that, a building fell on it and it survived literally without a scratch, it wasn't at all affected by going a thousand feet down into the ocean, and it got bombarded by hadron cannon blasts and didn't care whatsoever. Its durability is off the charts, the defensive capabilities easily more than the Shinkirou. Moreover, the agility that it displayed was obscene -probably more than that of Iron Man, honestly.

We don't see the Siegfried for a solid year after it went into the ocean. You don't know how damaged it was; damaged enough that Jeremiah didn't come back for a year, either. Considering how deranged he was, what other explanation is there that he didn't continue the attack? Seems obvious that he was incapable.

No, the Sutherland cannot take a Hadron cannon. It was destroyed by a Hadron cannon.

The fact that he has an emergency "ejection Knightmare" is not a testament to durability. And honestly, the entire feat is about Jeremiah's durability and not the Sutherland's. It's not that agile. It doesn't do anything that is in the least comparable to other Knightmare Frames in that category. All it does is dodge missiles and... well, get hit by Anya

In no way is it more durable than the Shinkiro. The Sutherland was destroyed from one hit of the Hadron Cannon, whereas the shields on the Shinkiro were able to deflect Anya's Hadron Cannon for an extended period of time at point blank range (the exact same cannon on the exact same Knightmare piloted by the exact same person).

8:45

It's implied that she would have overwhelmed him, had she continued. However, he lasted far longer against the Hadron Cannon than the Sutherland did. Once more: the Shinkiro has much greater defensive capabilities.

Iron Man's suit, specifically the Extremis suit, I believe, is strong enough to take a nuke.

Tony's mind and the suit itself have the processing power to attach the suit to Tony's body from across the room after a nearby explosion was triggered (this is before the suit became a literal part of him. The suit was literally in a suitcase across the room). Essentially, he reacted faster than the human mind should be able to respond.

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#21 Posted by Superbot400 (420 posts) - - Show Bio

[quote] ...the FLEIJA feat has never really been compounded on. What Lelouch essentially did was create a nuclear fission reaction exactly opposite that of the FLEIJA at that exact nanosecond in those exact environmental factors -which is more than any supercomputer we have or will have for hundreds of years could do. That shows that his mind is easily on par with, if not by far more capable, than that of Stark's.[/quote]

Tony has no problem with channeling data across every Military, Law Enforcement, Intelligence service across the world ... his brain.

http://i1235.photobucket.com/albums/ff425/superbot400/Iron%20Man/Imagebot/Intelligence%20%20Extermis/img019.jpg

Hell during that time he could put picobytes of information in his head. He could even pilot 5 Iron Men, and while doing something else in the office. Or even control 30 drones with His head at once.

That he can control armor down to binary codes.

http://i1235.photobucket.com/albums/ff425/superbot400/Iron%20Man/Imagebot/Intelligence%20%20Extermis/IronMan31Zone-Meganpg08.jpg

He can also can control nanobots.

http://i1235.photobucket.com/albums/ff425/superbot400/Iron%20Man/Imagebot/tZv4x.jpg

There was even issues of Tony difusing bombs the sizes of a nanobot, and he was to physically repair the bombs. Of course there examples of Iron Man assembling his armor before a explosion hit. Or how his mind can process information in less than a 100th of a second.

Again. I don't see how Leouch has more processing power than a CEO of a industry that could control/program all satellites in the world in his brain. Or somebody that could download a picobyte of Informations.

#22 Posted by darkhunter89 (528 posts) - - Show Bio

Iron Man