Kizaru vs Blackbeard ( Read OP )

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Khael

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#1  Edited By Khael

Rule :

All stats are equal

Start 30 feet apart from each other

If this is a stomp Blackbeard army is allow to help

Win by any mean except BFR

Let the battle of light and darkness begin

I'm sorry if this a mismatch ( i found this battle in another site :P)

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PantyPolice

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Making all stats equal kind of ruins the point of "who would win"

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roronuffy

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I think you mean Kizaru, but I'd say BB takes this. He's had two years now to master two DF and even before that he was on par with WB's strongest crew members. Plus he scarred Shanks' face and was enough of a threat that Shanks warned WB not to send Ace after him. I think two years to train with two of the most powerful DF's is enough for him to take Kizaru.

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Khael

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#4  Edited By Khael

@roronuffy said:

I think you mean Kizaru, but I'd say BB takes this. He's had two years now to master two DF and even before that he was on par with WB's strongest crew members. Plus he scarred Shanks' face and was enough of a threat that Shanks warned WB not to send Ace after him. I think two years to train with two of the most powerful DF's is enough for him to take Kizaru.

Crap i mean Kizaru, lol.

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ALMIGHTY

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Making all stats equal kind of ruins the point of "who would win"

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PantyPolice

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@khael said:
@roronuffy said:

I think you mean Kizaru, but I'd say BB takes this. He's had two years now to master two DF and even before that he was on par with WB's strongest crew members. Plus he scarred Shanks' face and was enough of a threat that Shanks warned WB not to send Ace after him. I think two years to train with two of the most powerful DF's is enough for him to take Kizaru.

Crap i mean Kizaru, lol.

Pre timeskip Powerscale

Marco > Kizaru = Aokiji = Jozu > Vista = Doflamingo = Mihawk > Ace = Blackbeard

Blackbeard was Ace level, which is weaker than Vista which is weaker than Jozu which is weaker than Marco.

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roronuffy

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@pantypolice: I don't agree with any of that so let's start at the bottom and work our way up.

• Ace lost to Blackbeard outright and was the reason for the WB war so that's completely wrong. http://m.mangatown.com/manga/one_piece/v46/c441/17.html

•I don't want to give any spoilers away but recent events show that Doffy is not anywhere close to the highest tier.

• Mihawk has the title of greatest swordsman so that automatically puts him above Vista. Shanks is also a swordsman so it is plausible that he is even stronger than him. Lastly WB even stated Shanks and Mihawk shook the Grand Line with their fights and Mihawk even tells Shanks he isn't worth settling with without both his arms implying their fights had no clear winner. All that is evidence that he is at least equal to Shanks, which puts him above all of WB's captains. https://www.opbforums.com/manga/mangas/One%20Piece/096%20-%20Greatest%20Evil%20of%20the%20East/One_Piece_v11_121.png

•Kizaru thoroughly whooped Jozu and froze him and cut off his arm. He did that while sustaining no visible damage himself so they are certainly nowhere close to equal. http://www.mangastream.to/one-piece-chapter-569-page-8.html

•Marco also never put any visible damage on Kizaru though he himself got shot three times after being caught and handcuffed by a lowly vice admiral.

http://www.mangastream.to/one-piece-chapter-569-page-7.html

•Lastly in the manga (not anime) Akainu basically takes out Whitebeard 1 on 1 and even tanks WB's strongest hit after delivering the fatal blow to WB with little more than a mouth bleed. Then Aokiji fought Akainu for a week straight. Basically Akainu beat the strongest in the world and Aokiji isn't too far behind.

So basically none of that is right. Here is a more accurate assessment.

Akainu>=BB>=Aokiji=Kizaru>Marco>Ace>Jozu=Vista>=Doflamingo

Mihawk is somewhere between Akainu and Kizaru

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Ratava

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@khael said:
@roronuffy said:

I think you mean Kizaru, but I'd say BB takes this. He's had two years now to master two DF and even before that he was on par with WB's strongest crew members. Plus he scarred Shanks' face and was enough of a threat that Shanks warned WB not to send Ace after him. I think two years to train with two of the most powerful DF's is enough for him to take Kizaru.

Crap i mean Kizaru, lol.

Pre timeskip Powerscale

Marco > Kizaru = Aokiji = Jozu > Vista = Doflamingo = Mihawk > Ace = Blackbeard

Blackbeard was Ace level, which is weaker than Vista which is weaker than Jozu which is weaker than Marco.

wait what? what did Marco do to put him anywhere near an admiral?

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#10  Edited By Khael

@almighty said:
@pantypolice said:

Making all stats equal kind of ruins the point of "who would win"

If i didn't make them equal, this match will be one-sided.

By the way Kizaru can teleport, so he still has speed advantage.

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Sy8000

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#11  Edited By Sy8000

Kizaru. Black Beard's only speed feat is reacting to and tagging Luffy who wasn't near as fast as Kizaru then.

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Khael

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Kizaru. Black Beard's only speed feat is reacting to and tagging Luffy who wasn't near as fast as Kizaru then.

All stats are equal ( I know something like this will happen, that's why I make the stats equal )

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@khael: Then Kizaru spams lasers into Black Beard's chest.

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loumast

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@khael: Dude, you can change the name! *eyetwitch* full edit option.

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Khael

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@loumast said:

@khael: Dude, you can change the name! *eyetwitch* full edit option.

Done, better :D

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Keikai

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Equalised stats are stupid, it defeats the purpose of this battle. If you know one character is certainly stronger than the other character then you don't make a battle thread.

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Khael

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#17  Edited By Khael

@deus said:

Equalised stats are stupid, it defeats the purpose of this battle. If you know one character is certainly stronger than the other character then you don't make a battle thread.

In one piece stats doesn't always give you the win, like i think Aokiji and Akainu are equal in stats but it doesn't mean Akoiji and Akainu are equal that's because Magma > Ice.

I'm just curious which one is superior, Blackbeard darkness or Kizaru light.

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PantyPolice

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@khael said:
@deus said:

Equalised stats are stupid, it defeats the purpose of this battle. If you know one character is certainly stronger than the other character then you don't make a battle thread.

In one piece stats doesn't always give you the win, like i think Aokiji and Akainu are equal in stats but it doesn't mean Akoiji and Akainu are equal that's because Magma > Ice.

I'm just curious which one is superior, Blackbeard darkness or Kizaru light.

Akainu was fighting off the entire whitebeard crew minus whitebeard and 1 v 1'd whitebeard albeit hurt, aokiji was getting standstilled by Jozu.

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PantyPolice

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@ratava said:
@pantypolice said:
@khael said:
@roronuffy said:

I think you mean Kizaru, but I'd say BB takes this. He's had two years now to master two DF and even before that he was on par with WB's strongest crew members. Plus he scarred Shanks' face and was enough of a threat that Shanks warned WB not to send Ace after him. I think two years to train with two of the most powerful DF's is enough for him to take Kizaru.

Crap i mean Kizaru, lol.

Pre timeskip Powerscale

Marco > Kizaru = Aokiji = Jozu > Vista = Doflamingo = Mihawk > Ace = Blackbeard

Blackbeard was Ace level, which is weaker than Vista which is weaker than Jozu which is weaker than Marco.

wait what? what did Marco do to put him anywhere near an admiral?

Winning versus an admiral before one of the strongest vice admirals blinsided him while the two were fighting. Marco had the clear advantage against Kizaru.

Being listed along the yonkou as someone who had the ability to stop blackbeard.

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Ratava

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@ratava said:
@pantypolice said:
@khael said:
@roronuffy said:

I think you mean Kizaru, but I'd say BB takes this. He's had two years now to master two DF and even before that he was on par with WB's strongest crew members. Plus he scarred Shanks' face and was enough of a threat that Shanks warned WB not to send Ace after him. I think two years to train with two of the most powerful DF's is enough for him to take Kizaru.

Crap i mean Kizaru, lol.

Pre timeskip Powerscale

Marco > Kizaru = Aokiji = Jozu > Vista = Doflamingo = Mihawk > Ace = Blackbeard

Blackbeard was Ace level, which is weaker than Vista which is weaker than Jozu which is weaker than Marco.

wait what? what did Marco do to put him anywhere near an admiral?

Winning versus an admiral before one of the strongest vice admirals blinsided him while the two were fighting. Marco had the clear advantage against Kizaru.

Being listed along the yonkou as someone who had the ability to stop blackbeard.

marco never won against anyone, those little skirmishes doesnt count as real fights, he didnt put a single scratch on an amdiral. all marco did was block kizarus attack and getting stomped by Garp. he was mentioned by the Gorosei because he now leads the wb pirates not because of individual strength.

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Khael

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#22  Edited By Khael

@ratava said:
@pantypolice said:
@ratava said:
@pantypolice said:
@khael said:
@roronuffy said:

I think you mean Kizaru, but I'd say BB takes this. He's had two years now to master two DF and even before that he was on par with WB's strongest crew members. Plus he scarred Shanks' face and was enough of a threat that Shanks warned WB not to send Ace after him. I think two years to train with two of the most powerful DF's is enough for him to take Kizaru.

Crap i mean Kizaru, lol.

Pre timeskip Powerscale

Marco > Kizaru = Aokiji = Jozu > Vista = Doflamingo = Mihawk > Ace = Blackbeard

Blackbeard was Ace level, which is weaker than Vista which is weaker than Jozu which is weaker than Marco.

wait what? what did Marco do to put him anywhere near an admiral?

Winning versus an admiral before one of the strongest vice admirals blinsided him while the two were fighting. Marco had the clear advantage against Kizaru.

Being listed along the yonkou as someone who had the ability to stop blackbeard.

marco never won against anyone, those little skirmishes doesnt count as real fights, he didnt put a single scratch on an amdiral. all marco did was block kizarus attack and getting stomped by Garp. he was mentioned by the Gorosei because he now leads the wb pirates not because of individual strength.

He block Kizaru attack and kick him. if it didn't count that as a battle then you should not count Marco getting stomped by Garp.

You have to give this guy a credit, although Admirals never take him seriously i think he never go all out either so maybe he is on Admiral level but i can't judge since his Battle never last more than three minutes.

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Ratava

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@khael said:

Winning versus an admiral before one of the strongest vice admirals blinsided him while the two were fighting. Marco had the clear advantage against Kizaru.

Being listed along the yonkou as someone who had the ability to stop blackbeard.

marco never won against anyone, those little skirmishes doesnt count as real fights, he didnt put a single scratch on an amdiral. all marco did was block kizarus attack and getting stomped by Garp. he was mentioned by the Gorosei because he now leads the wb pirates not because of individual strength.

He block Kizaru attack and kick him. if it didn't count that as a battle then you should not count Marco getting stomped by Garp.

You have to give this guy a credit, although Admirals never take him seriously i think he never go all out either so maybe he is on Admiral level but i can't judge since his Battle never last more than three minutes.

marcos kick hat zero effect on kizaru. marco and vista couldnt even hurt akainu with an haki imbued attack. he is nowhere near admiral level, at least not with shown feats. people hype him because of his df

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Ratava

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#25  Edited By Ratava

@leo-343 said:

*Stalemates an Admiral*

*But he's no where near Admiral level*

Seems legit.

stalemate? you mean that little skirmish. marco couldnt put a scratch on kizaru and failed to do anything against akainu and that with vistas help. then he got stomped by garp.

yeah, he is nowhere near admiral level.

or did he have a real fight against an admiral where he stalemated, one that i dont know off?

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Nathaniel_Christopher

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I don't understand the purpose of making all stats equal.

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Ratava

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@leo-343 said:

@ratava: Well duh, in that little skirmish there was neither a winner or loser and they didn't damage each other. It was obviously a stalemate.

again, that was no real fight. he couldnt even put a scratch on a admiral, his kick had no effect on kizaru and his combined attack with vista had zero effect on akainu. for someone who is on admiral level, at least i expect him to push an admiral to his limits.

but just lets agree to diasgree

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Khael

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I don't understand the purpose of making all stats equal.

Current Blackbeard ain't strong or speed enough to do anything to Kizaru since I never see him after time skip

But i heard Oda confirm that Blackbeard will be the next King of pirate then Strawhat pirate will confront Blackbeard Pirate in a epic Battle to determine who is the true king of pirate , but I'm not really sure.

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Ratava

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#31  Edited By Ratava

@leo-343 said:

@ratava: Kizaru wasn't pushed to his limits against Rayleigh, just forced to take the fight seriously, so I guess Rayleigh isn't admiral level?

old Rayleigh? Rayleigh was panting for air after a couple of minutes fighting with kizaru whereas he didnt showed any signs of strain at all.

how are these two instances even comparable? all what marco did was tanking attacks and didnt receive any damage thanks to his df but nothing he did against the admirals had any effect at all, not even his combined attack with vista.

so Marco and another wb-commander couldnt put a single scratch on an admiral but marco is admiral-level? nope, not without sufficient feats.

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PantyPolice

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#32  Edited By PantyPolice

@ratava said:
@pantypolice said:
@ratava said:
@pantypolice said:
@khael said:
@roronuffy said:

I think you mean Kizaru, but I'd say BB takes this. He's had two years now to master two DF and even before that he was on par with WB's strongest crew members. Plus he scarred Shanks' face and was enough of a threat that Shanks warned WB not to send Ace after him. I think two years to train with two of the most powerful DF's is enough for him to take Kizaru.

Crap i mean Kizaru, lol.

Pre timeskip Powerscale

Marco > Kizaru = Aokiji = Jozu > Vista = Doflamingo = Mihawk > Ace = Blackbeard

Blackbeard was Ace level, which is weaker than Vista which is weaker than Jozu which is weaker than Marco.

wait what? what did Marco do to put him anywhere near an admiral?

Winning versus an admiral before one of the strongest vice admirals blinsided him while the two were fighting. Marco had the clear advantage against Kizaru.

Being listed along the yonkou as someone who had the ability to stop blackbeard.

marco never won against anyone, those little skirmishes doesnt count as real fights, he didnt put a single scratch on an amdiral. all marco did was block kizarus attack and getting stomped by Garp. he was mentioned by the Gorosei because he now leads the wb pirates not because of individual strength.

1) Garp is potentially stronger than Whitebeard due to the fact that they rivaled in strength in their prime and whitebeard had to deal with sickness AND a stab wound in the battle at marineford.

2) Kizaru and Marco fought for all of like 10 seconds and Marco had the clear advantage, also Marco > Jozu and Jozu was Aokiji's match until Marco was double teamed and Jozu turned his attention to Marco and then was hit. You seem to either not remember how the battles went down or you are avoiding the facts because you don't want what I'm saying to be true.

3) Garp did the same thing to Marco that Marco did to Kizaru so you can't say Garp stomped Marco without saying that Marco stomped Kizaru.

I consider Jozu the normal yonkou first mate strength and Marco is stronger due to being Whitebeard's first mate and being a special exception.

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https://12dimension.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/one_piece_ch784_p010-011.png

This is pretty much what Marco did to Kizaru, the difference being that Kizaru turned intangible so that he wouldn't suffer any crash damage because he's a logia.

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Mortein

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Pre timeskip Powerscale

Marco > Kizaru = Aokiji = Jozu > Vista = Doflamingo = Mihawk > Ace = Blackbeard

How could you be wrong on so many levels?

Pre timeskip Powerscale

Admiral lv characters>Marco>BB(after eating second DF)>Doflamingo>Jozu>Vista>BB>Ace

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Ratava

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@ratava said:
@pantypolice said:
@ratava said:
@pantypolice said:

@roronuffy said:

I think you mean Kizaru, but I'd say BB takes this. He's had two years now to master two DF and even before that he was on par with WB's strongest crew members. Plus he scarred Shanks' face and was enough of a threat that Shanks warned WB not to send Ace after him. I think two years to train with two of the most powerful DF's is enough for him to take Kizaru.

Crap i mean Kizaru, lol.

Pre timeskip Powerscale

Marco > Kizaru = Aokiji = Jozu > Vista = Doflamingo = Mihawk > Ace = Blackbeard

Blackbeard was Ace level, which is weaker than Vista which is weaker than Jozu which is weaker than Marco.

wait what? what did Marco do to put him anywhere near an admiral?

Winning versus an admiral before one of the strongest vice admirals blinsided him while the two were fighting. Marco had the clear advantage against Kizaru.

Being listed along the yonkou as someone who had the ability to stop blackbeard.

marco never won against anyone, those little skirmishes doesnt count as real fights, he didnt put a single scratch on an amdiral. all marco did was block kizarus attack and getting stomped by Garp. he was mentioned by the Gorosei because he now leads the wb pirates not because of individual strength.

1) Garp is potentially stronger than Whitebeard due to the fact that they rivaled in strength in their prime and whitebeard had to deal with sickness AND a stab wound in the battle at marineford.

2) Kizaru and Marco fought for all of like 10 seconds and Marco had the clear advantage, also Marco > Jozu and Jozu was Aokiji's match until Marco was double teamed and Jozu turned his attention to Marco and then was hit. You seem to either not remember how the battles went down or you are avoiding the facts because you don't want what I'm saying to be true.

3) Garp did the same thing to Marco that Marco did to Kizaru so you can't say Garp stomped Marco without saying that Marco stomped Kizaru.

I consider Jozu the normal yonkou first mate strength and Marco is stronger due to being Whitebeard's first mate and being a special exception.

and then marco teamed up with vista and they couldnt put a single scratch on Akainu with a combined haki imbued attack....... and btw: Jozu at least was capable of hurting an admiral lol (yeah i know sucker punch boohoo)

marco is not on admiral level, i dont care about his df-hype, he simply doesnt have the feats

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PantyPolice

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@mortein said:
@pantypolice said:

Pre timeskip Powerscale

Marco > Kizaru = Aokiji = Jozu > Vista = Doflamingo = Mihawk > Ace = Blackbeard

How could you be wrong on so many levels?

Pre timeskip Powerscale

Admiral lv characters>Marco>BB(after eating second DF)>Doflamingo>Jozu>Vista>BB>Ace

It's cute that you don't know what you're talking about.

But hey, let's just ignore the fact that an admiral in a one on one was unable to beat Jozu yet the same admiral had a clear advantage out of the starting gate against Doflamingo.

You're ignoring fact and just filling in the list with whatever you want with no evidence and saying I'm wrong for no reason.

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PantyPolice

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#37  Edited By PantyPolice

@ratava said:
@pantypolice said:
@ratava said:
@pantypolice said:
@ratava said:
@pantypolice said:
@roronuffy said:

I think you mean Kizaru, but I'd say BB takes this. He's had two years now to master two DF and even before that he was on par with WB's strongest crew members. Plus he scarred Shanks' face and was enough of a threat that Shanks warned WB not to send Ace after him. I think two years to train with two of the most powerful DF's is enough for him to take Kizaru.

Crap i mean Kizaru, lol.

Pre timeskip Powerscale

Marco > Kizaru = Aokiji = Jozu > Vista = Doflamingo = Mihawk > Ace = Blackbeard

Blackbeard was Ace level, which is weaker than Vista which is weaker than Jozu which is weaker than Marco.

wait what? what did Marco do to put him anywhere near an admiral?

Winning versus an admiral before one of the strongest vice admirals blinsided him while the two were fighting. Marco had the clear advantage against Kizaru.

Being listed along the yonkou as someone who had the ability to stop blackbeard.

marco never won against anyone, those little skirmishes doesnt count as real fights, he didnt put a single scratch on an amdiral. all marco did was block kizarus attack and getting stomped by Garp. he was mentioned by the Gorosei because he now leads the wb pirates not because of individual strength.

1) Garp is potentially stronger than Whitebeard due to the fact that they rivaled in strength in their prime and whitebeard had to deal with sickness AND a stab wound in the battle at marineford.

2) Kizaru and Marco fought for all of like 10 seconds and Marco had the clear advantage, also Marco > Jozu and Jozu was Aokiji's match until Marco was double teamed and Jozu turned his attention to Marco and then was hit. You seem to either not remember how the battles went down or you are avoiding the facts because you don't want what I'm saying to be true.

3) Garp did the same thing to Marco that Marco did to Kizaru so you can't say Garp stomped Marco without saying that Marco stomped Kizaru.

I consider Jozu the normal yonkou first mate strength and Marco is stronger due to being Whitebeard's first mate and being a special exception.

and then marco teamed up with vista and they couldnt put a single scratch on Akainu with a combined haki imbued attack....... and btw: Jozu at least was capable of hurting an admiral lol (yeah i know sucker punch boohoo)

marco is not on admiral level, i dont care about his df-hype, he simply doesnt have the feats

1) Akainu is beyond a doubt the strongest admiral

2) Marco and Vista had just lost a loved one and their spirit was massively broken, spirit and focus are two things directly related to haki ability which that clash was ENTIRELY based on

3) Haki ability variances don't mean strength variances, luffy was beating haki users before he had it himself.

4) Who said their attacks failed? Akainu wasn't dead but he was cut into pretty heavily, he's a logia so he can revive back, also it's not like when both attacked it was Vista + Marco's haki versus Akainu's haki, both attacks were independent but at the same time.

Aokiji suckerpunched Jozu when he was distracted.

Marco had the clear advantage against Kizaru.

Everyone at marineford lacks feats, jozu vs aokiji, vista vs mihawk, and marco vs kizaru were mainly off panel and not shown, we actually only saw a few seconds of each of their fights before ultimately other things happened. I mean in the manga akainu and whitebeard barely actually fought, I mean aokiji and kizaru each only attacked whitebeard once before running away to fight someone else.

Marineford shouldn't be taken as "oh look, this is good showings" as much as "oh these are the top dogs and this is how they compare versus each other"

So yeah, your argument kind of falls apart, marco was grabbed by a vice admiral who is apparetly one of the strongest vice admirals and he didn't know he was there and was distracted by kizaru, all that states is that characters of top tier status can be blindsided by decent enough characters, I mean crocodile almost blindsided whitebeard before luffy fought him off and none of the whitebeard pirates or admirals were the wiser because they weren't paying attention. Is pre timeskip crocodile > whitebeard by the logic?

Jozu was untouched and both him and aokiji were more bantering back and forth while fighting and being unable to hurt each other without blinsided each other (jozu in entrance and aokiji when jozu got clearly distracted and looked away mid fight, which kizaru remarked was a clear mistake, so it's pretty damn clear that's why he was beat), it took marco getting double teamed with seastone handcuffs from a vice admiral who surprised him from behind (probably the strongest non garp vice admiral as well) and kizaru.

Marco had a minor advantage against Kizaru, Jozu and Aokiji were equal, Doflamingo had a disadvantage against Aokiji, Vista is seen as lower than jozu who is admiral level. Vista was standstilling Mihawk and him being the best swordsman in title doesn't mean anything since Vista and Mihawk haven't fought before.

So it's safe to assume that since Marco is higher ranked than jozu and had an advantage versus kizaru that he's > admiral, though maybe not akainu, most likely a substantial gap post skip since akainu is being led up to be the final villain of luffy even after eos blackbeard.

Jozu proved he's admiral level.

Vista is lower than jozu so he and mihawk are lower than admiral level. Doflamingo is somewhere around that level since he proved capable of fighting admirals but not of actually matching them, he might be weaker than vista and mihawk but he's likely in their range if not on par with them.

so there you go.

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Ratava

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@ratava said:
@pantypolice said:
@ratava said:
@pantypolice said:
@ratava said:
@pantypolice said:
@roronuffy said:

I think you mean Kizaru, but I'd say BB takes this. He's had two years now to master two DF and even before that he was on par with WB's strongest crew members. Plus he scarred Shanks' face and was enough of a threat that Shanks warned WB not to send Ace after him. I think two years to train with two of the most powerful DF's is enough for him to take Kizaru.

Crap i mean Kizaru, lol.

Pre timeskip Powerscale

Marco > Kizaru = Aokiji = Jozu > Vista = Doflamingo = Mihawk > Ace = Blackbeard

Blackbeard was Ace level, which is weaker than Vista which is weaker than Jozu which is weaker than Marco.

wait what? what did Marco do to put him anywhere near an admiral?

Winning versus an admiral before one of the strongest vice admirals blinsided him while the two were fighting. Marco had the clear advantage against Kizaru.

Being listed along the yonkou as someone who had the ability to stop blackbeard.

marco never won against anyone, those little skirmishes doesnt count as real fights, he didnt put a single scratch on an amdiral. all marco did was block kizarus attack and getting stomped by Garp. he was mentioned by the Gorosei because he now leads the wb pirates not because of individual strength.

1) Garp is potentially stronger than Whitebeard due to the fact that they rivaled in strength in their prime and whitebeard had to deal with sickness AND a stab wound in the battle at marineford.

2) Kizaru and Marco fought for all of like 10 seconds and Marco had the clear advantage, also Marco > Jozu and Jozu was Aokiji's match until Marco was double teamed and Jozu turned his attention to Marco and then was hit. You seem to either not remember how the battles went down or you are avoiding the facts because you don't want what I'm saying to be true.

3) Garp did the same thing to Marco that Marco did to Kizaru so you can't say Garp stomped Marco without saying that Marco stomped Kizaru.

I consider Jozu the normal yonkou first mate strength and Marco is stronger due to being Whitebeard's first mate and being a special exception.

and then marco teamed up with vista and they couldnt put a single scratch on Akainu with a combined haki imbued attack....... and btw: Jozu at least was capable of hurting an admiral lol (yeah i know sucker punch boohoo)

marco is not on admiral level, i dont care about his df-hype, he simply doesnt have the feats

1) Akainu is beyond a doubt the strongest admiral

2) Marco and Vista had just lost a loved one and their spirit was massively broken, spirit and focus are two things directly related to haki ability which that clash was ENTIRELY based on

3) Haki ability variances don't mean strength variances, luffy was beating haki users before he had it himself.

4) Who said their attacks failed? Akainu wasn't dead but he was cut into pretty heavily, he's a logia so he can revive back, also it's not like when both attacked it was Vista + Marco's haki versus Akainu's haki, both attacks were independent but at the same time.

Aokiji suckerpunched Jozu when he was distracted.

Marco had the clear advantage against Kizaru.

Everyone at marineford lacks feats, jozu vs aokiji, vista vs mihawk, and marco vs kizaru were mainly off panel and not shown, we actually only saw a few seconds of each of their fights before ultimately other things happened. I mean in the manga akainu and whitebeard barely actually fought, I mean aokiji and kizaru each only attacked whitebeard once before running away to fight someone else.

Marineford shouldn't be taken as "oh look, this is good showings" as much as "oh these are the top dogs and this is how they compare versus each other"

So yeah, your argument kind of falls apart, marco was grabbed by a vice admiral who is apparetly one of the strongest vice admirals and he didn't know he was there and was distracted by kizaru, all that states is that characters of top tier status can be blindsided by decent enough characters, I mean crocodile almost blindsided whitebeard before luffy fought him off and none of the whitebeard pirates or admirals were the wiser because they weren't paying attention. Is pre timeskip crocodile > whitebeard by the logic?

Jozu was untouched and both him and aokiji were more bantering back and forth while fighting and being unable to hurt each other without blinsided each other (jozu in entrance and aokiji when jozu got clearly distracted and looked away mid fight, which kizaru remarked was a clear mistake, so it's pretty damn clear that's why he was beat), it took marco getting double teamed with seastone handcuffs from a vice admiral who surprised him from behind (probably the strongest non garp vice admiral as well) and kizaru.

Marco had a minor advantage against Kizaru, Jozu and Aokiji were equal, Doflamingo had a disadvantage against Aokiji, Vista is seen as lower than jozu who is admiral level. Vista was standstilling Mihawk and him being the best swordsman in title doesn't mean anything since Vista and Mihawk haven't fought before.

So it's safe to assume that since Marco is higher ranked than jozu and had an advantage versus kizaru that he's > admiral, though maybe not akainu, most likely a substantial gap post skip since akainu is being led up to be the final villain of luffy even after eos blackbeard.

Jozu proved he's admiral level.

Vista is lower than jozu so he and mihawk are lower than admiral level. Doflamingo is somewhere around that level since he proved capable of fighting admirals but not of actually matching them, he might be weaker than vista and mihawk but he's likely in their range if not on par with them.

so there you go.

how is any of that important?

fact is Marco couldnt put a scratch on a single admiral, his kick against kizaru had zero effect, his combined attack with vista against akainu had zero effect. he didnt have any "minor" advantage. they hadnt even a real fight that were all little skirmishes,for the admirals especially Akainu he and vista werent more than a nuisance.

so without feats marco is not admiral level. iam not hyping someone who didnt do anything besides tanking attacks ,thanks to his df, to admiral level.

simple as that.

but you can believe what you want. for me he doesnt have the feats.

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PantyPolice

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@ratava said:
@pantypolice said:
@ratava said:
@pantypolice said:
@ratava said:
@pantypolice said:
@ratava said:
@pantypolice said:
@roronuffy said:

I think you mean Kizaru, but I'd say BB takes this. He's had two years now to master two DF and even before that he was on par with WB's strongest crew members. Plus he scarred Shanks' face and was enough of a threat that Shanks warned WB not to send Ace after him. I think two years to train with two of the most powerful DF's is enough for him to take Kizaru.

Crap i mean Kizaru, lol.

Pre timeskip Powerscale

Marco > Kizaru = Aokiji = Jozu > Vista = Doflamingo = Mihawk > Ace = Blackbeard

Blackbeard was Ace level, which is weaker than Vista which is weaker than Jozu which is weaker than Marco.

wait what? what did Marco do to put him anywhere near an admiral?

Winning versus an admiral before one of the strongest vice admirals blinsided him while the two were fighting. Marco had the clear advantage against Kizaru.

Being listed along the yonkou as someone who had the ability to stop blackbeard.

marco never won against anyone, those little skirmishes doesnt count as real fights, he didnt put a single scratch on an amdiral. all marco did was block kizarus attack and getting stomped by Garp. he was mentioned by the Gorosei because he now leads the wb pirates not because of individual strength.

1) Garp is potentially stronger than Whitebeard due to the fact that they rivaled in strength in their prime and whitebeard had to deal with sickness AND a stab wound in the battle at marineford.

2) Kizaru and Marco fought for all of like 10 seconds and Marco had the clear advantage, also Marco > Jozu and Jozu was Aokiji's match until Marco was double teamed and Jozu turned his attention to Marco and then was hit. You seem to either not remember how the battles went down or you are avoiding the facts because you don't want what I'm saying to be true.

3) Garp did the same thing to Marco that Marco did to Kizaru so you can't say Garp stomped Marco without saying that Marco stomped Kizaru.

I consider Jozu the normal yonkou first mate strength and Marco is stronger due to being Whitebeard's first mate and being a special exception.

and then marco teamed up with vista and they couldnt put a single scratch on Akainu with a combined haki imbued attack....... and btw: Jozu at least was capable of hurting an admiral lol (yeah i know sucker punch boohoo)

marco is not on admiral level, i dont care about his df-hype, he simply doesnt have the feats

1) Akainu is beyond a doubt the strongest admiral

2) Marco and Vista had just lost a loved one and their spirit was massively broken, spirit and focus are two things directly related to haki ability which that clash was ENTIRELY based on

3) Haki ability variances don't mean strength variances, luffy was beating haki users before he had it himself.

4) Who said their attacks failed? Akainu wasn't dead but he was cut into pretty heavily, he's a logia so he can revive back, also it's not like when both attacked it was Vista + Marco's haki versus Akainu's haki, both attacks were independent but at the same time.

Aokiji suckerpunched Jozu when he was distracted.

Marco had the clear advantage against Kizaru.

Everyone at marineford lacks feats, jozu vs aokiji, vista vs mihawk, and marco vs kizaru were mainly off panel and not shown, we actually only saw a few seconds of each of their fights before ultimately other things happened. I mean in the manga akainu and whitebeard barely actually fought, I mean aokiji and kizaru each only attacked whitebeard once before running away to fight someone else.

Marineford shouldn't be taken as "oh look, this is good showings" as much as "oh these are the top dogs and this is how they compare versus each other"

So yeah, your argument kind of falls apart, marco was grabbed by a vice admiral who is apparetly one of the strongest vice admirals and he didn't know he was there and was distracted by kizaru, all that states is that characters of top tier status can be blindsided by decent enough characters, I mean crocodile almost blindsided whitebeard before luffy fought him off and none of the whitebeard pirates or admirals were the wiser because they weren't paying attention. Is pre timeskip crocodile > whitebeard by the logic?

Jozu was untouched and both him and aokiji were more bantering back and forth while fighting and being unable to hurt each other without blinsided each other (jozu in entrance and aokiji when jozu got clearly distracted and looked away mid fight, which kizaru remarked was a clear mistake, so it's pretty damn clear that's why he was beat), it took marco getting double teamed with seastone handcuffs from a vice admiral who surprised him from behind (probably the strongest non garp vice admiral as well) and kizaru.

Marco had a minor advantage against Kizaru, Jozu and Aokiji were equal, Doflamingo had a disadvantage against Aokiji, Vista is seen as lower than jozu who is admiral level. Vista was standstilling Mihawk and him being the best swordsman in title doesn't mean anything since Vista and Mihawk haven't fought before.

So it's safe to assume that since Marco is higher ranked than jozu and had an advantage versus kizaru that he's > admiral, though maybe not akainu, most likely a substantial gap post skip since akainu is being led up to be the final villain of luffy even after eos blackbeard.

Jozu proved he's admiral level.

Vista is lower than jozu so he and mihawk are lower than admiral level. Doflamingo is somewhere around that level since he proved capable of fighting admirals but not of actually matching them, he might be weaker than vista and mihawk but he's likely in their range if not on par with them.

so there you go.

how is any of that important?

fact is Marco couldnt put a scratch on a single admiral, his kick against kizaru had zero effect, his combined attack with vista against akainu had zero effect. he didnt have any "minor" advantage. they hadnt even a real fight that were all little skirmishes,for the admirals especially Akainu he and vista werent more than a nuisance.

so without feats marco is not admiral level. iam not hyping someone who didnt do anything besides tanking attacks ,thanks to his df, to admiral level.

simple as that.

but you can believe what you want. for me he doesnt have the feats.

Marco sent Kizaru flying across the battlefield.

Marco cut halfway into Akainu's body.

Marco drived his foot into Aokiji's side.

Without feats, Kizaru isn't admiral leveled by that logic. Marco did much more than "tank attacks", he sent Kizaru flying into the ground.