#1 Edited by Omnicrono (2190 posts) - - Show Bio

Forgive me if this has been done before recently. I did a battle thread "search" and didn't find anything similar.

UPDATED (3-17)

Scenario 1: Battle of wits on an uninhabited planet. each combatant is equipped with a standard TNG phaser only. may use the resources of the land. zero prep time.

Scenario 2: Battle of ships - both teams' ships have the exact same armaments and defensive capabilities. 24 hours of prep.

Scenario 3: Fisticuffs, zero prep time.

Picard /Data

Spock/Kirk
#2 Posted by JohnnyZ256 (2656 posts) - - Show Bio

Picard and Data definitely win scenarios 1 and 3---Spock and Kirk have no chance of beating an android in fisticuffs, and have a slim chance in a battle of wits.

Spock's mind meld and nerve pinch won't affect Data, and Data can one-shot either of them.

I could see scenario 2 going to either team. Data is a computer but Spock is essentially a walking computer, also. I'd give the edge to Picard over Kirk in commanding a ship in battle, though.

#3 Posted by McHotcakes (583 posts) - - Show Bio

@JohnnyZ256 said:

Picard and Data definitely win scenarios 1 and 3---Spock and Kirk have no chance of beating an android in fisticuffs, and have a slim chance in a battle of wits.

Spock's mind meld and nerve pinch won't affect Data, and Data can one-shot either of them.

I could see scenario 2 going to either team. Data is a computer but Spock is essentially a walking computer, also. I'd give the edge to Picard over Kirk in commanding a ship in battle, though.

What he said

#4 Posted by spiderpool94 (467 posts) - - Show Bio

Picard and Data win on board the modern enterprise, they are set further in the future. Picard and Data would also probably beat them in a battle of wits due to Data being an android and Spok's logic being flawed due to being half human. The only one Kirk and Spok could win is the H2H, Picard isn't known for being a H2H fighter, Spok can do that death grip thing that knocks everyone out but Data has shown some impressive H2H feats so could go either way.

#5 Posted by comic_book_fan (5969 posts) - - Show Bio

picard and data.

#6 Posted by JohnnyZ256 (2656 posts) - - Show Bio

@spiderpool94:

The OP states that the two ships have the same armament and capabilities.

There is zero chance for Kirk and Spock to defeat Picard and Data in H2H. Data could easily solo by himself. Kirk and Spock cannot harm Data, no matter how many times they hit him, and Data can KO and possibly kill them with one hit.

#7 Posted by JohnnyZ256 (2656 posts) - - Show Bio

bump

#8 Posted by Batman242 (4862 posts) - - Show Bio

@JohnnyZ256 said:

bump

I guess you have a fetish for Data?

#9 Posted by JohnnyZ256 (2656 posts) - - Show Bio

No.

#10 Posted by Betatesthighlander1 (7510 posts) - - Show Bio

Scenario 1:Kirk and Spock seem to outsmart their enemies a lot more, I'm going with those two

Scenario 2: I'm saying Kirk and Spock, Kirk always seemed like more of a military commander than Picard, who, while creative, is only really spectacular against the Borg

Scenario 3: Data wins, Spock and Kirk, collectively, have nothing on him

#11 Posted by Shawnbaby (10869 posts) - - Show Bio

Battles of Wits are not strictly about Intelligence...They are about the application of that intelligence. Data and Spock are huge brains...but when it comes to creativity...both are rather lacking. What they bring to the table is their ability to crunch the numbers....and Data has Spock completely outclassed in that capacity. On the other side though...people often forget about Spock's human half...which can occasionally surprise his opponents when he does something that isn't very Vulcan. An example of this is in Wrath of Khan when Spock, knowing that Khan is likely listening in on the conversation he is having with Kirk, deliberately exaggerates the damage the enterprise took and inflates the time required to complete repairs. Khan suspects nothing because it's well-established that Vulcans do not lie.

Both Kirk and Picard have great examples of Quick thinking in Combat. Kirk, in Wrath of Khan, knowing that The Enterprise is too badly damaged to survive direct conflict with the Reliant...lures Khan into the Mutari Nebula...where neither ships shields or scanners will function...thus evening the odds.

Picard, when in command of The Stargazer totally outgunned and badly damaged, devised that by accelerating to High Warp Speed directly at the Ferengi vessel attacking him. By doing so it created an after image of the Stargazer which appeared to the ferengi sensors to be another ship. The Ferengi fired at the Sensor Doubled and Picard Fired a full volley of Phasers and Torpedos at the Ferengi ship...destroying it. The technique is now taught in Starfleet Academy as "The Picard Maneuver"

#12 Posted by Betatesthighlander1 (7510 posts) - - Show Bio

@Shawnbaby: But Kirk seemed a lot more experience with bluffs, like Fizzbin or Corbomite

#13 Posted by Shawnbaby (10869 posts) - - Show Bio

@Betatesthighlander1 said:

@Shawnbaby: But Kirk seemed a lot more experience with bluffs, like Fizzbin or Corbomite

Picard is no stranger to Bluffing.

#14 Posted by Betatesthighlander1 (7510 posts) - - Show Bio

@Shawnbaby: I can't really think of a time where he just came up with an effective bluff just out of the blue

#15 Posted by Shawnbaby (10869 posts) - - Show Bio

@Betatesthighlander1 said:

@Shawnbaby: I can't really think of a time where he just came up with an effective bluff just out of the blue

I can think of a couple. One, When Nagillum was going to kill half of his Crew...Picard was set to use the Auto-Destruct on the Ship...Nagillum eventually backed down and let the Enterprise leave.

Another time Picard Bluffed a Romulan commander into backing down by stating he would take any action needed to rescue an Ambassador the Romulans had abducted...including starting a war.

#16 Posted by Darrius (72 posts) - - Show Bio

Scenario 1 - Kirk and Spock win. - Androids aren't very smart. They are just very good with math and memory. When it comes to high level thinking they're actually kind of slow.

Scenario 2 - Kirk and Spock win - Both Kirk and Spock have more command experience than Picard, and that's saying something. Data is wayyyy back.

Scenario 3 - Picard sits down and has a drink while Data solos.

#17 Posted by Floopay (8721 posts) - - Show Bio

Picard and Data all rounds.

They are smarter, and more survivable.

Better strategists and prep masters.

And Data makes this a stomp in their favor in a hand to hand situation.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

#18 Posted by Betatesthighlander1 (7510 posts) - - Show Bio

@Shawnbaby: @Shawnbaby said:

@Betatesthighlander1 said:

@Shawnbaby: I can't really think of a time where he just came up with an effective bluff just out of the blue

I can think of a couple. One, When Nagillum was going to kill half of his Crew...Picard was set to use the Auto-Destruct on the Ship...Nagillum eventually backed down and let the Enterprise leave.

eh, Kirk did the exact same thing in his Let That be Your Last Battlefield quite a few years earlier, i kinda presumed taht by that point it was a standard last resort for Starfleet captains by that point

@Shawnbaby said:

Another time Picard Bluffed a Romulan commander into backing down by stating he would take any action needed to rescue an Ambassador the Romulans had abducted...including starting a war.

sorry, there were a lot of TNG episodes, to which one are you referring?

#19 Posted by Omnicrono (2190 posts) - - Show Bio

@Shawnbaby said:

Battles of Wits are not strictly about Intelligence...They are about the application of that intelligence. Data and Spock are huge brains...but when it comes to creativity...both are rather lacking. What they bring to the table is their ability to crunch the numbers....and Data has Spock completely outclassed in that capacity. On the other side though...people often forget about Spock's human half...which can occasionally surprise his opponents when he does something that isn't very Vulcan. An example of this is in Wrath of Khan when Spock, knowing that Khan is likely listening in on the conversation he is having with Kirk, deliberately exaggerates the damage the enterprise took and inflates the time required to complete repairs. Khan suspects nothing because it's well-established that Vulcans do not lie.

Both Kirk and Picard have great examples of Quick thinking in Combat. Kirk, in Wrath of Khan, knowing that The Enterprise is too badly damaged to survive direct conflict with the Reliant...lures Khan into the Mutari Nebula...where neither ships shields or scanners will function...thus evening the odds.

Picard, when in command of The Stargazer totally outgunned and badly damaged, devised that by accelerating to High Warp Speed directly at the Ferengi vessel attacking him. By doing so it created an after image of the Stargazer which appeared to the ferengi sensors to be another ship. The Ferengi fired at the Sensor Doubled and Picard Fired a full volley of Phasers and Torpedos at the Ferengi ship...destroying it. The technique is now taught in Starfleet Academy as "The Picard Maneuver"

Nice! Good examples. :)

#20 Posted by JohnnyZ256 (2656 posts) - - Show Bio

@Darrius said:

Scenario 1 - Kirk and Spock win. - Androids aren't very smart. They are just very good with math and memory. When it comes to high level thinking they're actually kind of slow.

Scenario 2 - Kirk and Spock win - Both Kirk and Spock have more command experience than Picard, and that's saying something. Data is wayyyy back.

Scenario 3 - Picard sits down and has a drink while Data solos.

Androids aren't very smart? When it comes to high-level thinking they're actually kind of slow? This is certainly news to me.

#21 Posted by catofellow (263 posts) - - Show Bio

1. Kirk and Spock - Data was not very witty, and would be confused by human strategy.

2. Kirk and Spock - I have never seen any impressive feats with Data.

3. Picard and Data - Data too powerful physically.

#22 Posted by comic_book_fan (5969 posts) - - Show Bio

1. data and picard.

2.kirk and spock could take this one.

3.data solos.

#23 Edited by xtreme1 (177 posts) - - Show Bio

1. Kirk and Spock

2. Kirk and Spock

3. Data solos

#24 Edited by NervesOfTin (10 posts) - - Show Bio

@catofellow said:

2. Kirk and Spock - I have never seen any impressive feats with Data.

Watch the Episode where Data takes command of a ship to blockade the Romulans, detects their cloaked fleet and foils their plans basically by himself. Data is no slouch as a Commander.