Kingpin vs Constantine Drakon

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This would probably end up a decent battle from what I've learned of this Drakon fellow.  I'll decide who I'll go for after I see a few more posts.  *goes to find evidence for both*

But he has tagged Daredevil, Spider-Man, and Punisher.  Ok, I agree Punisher is not in Drakon's league, but I digress. 

"
Classic Kingpin tagged classic Spider-Man.  Current couldn't even touch Spider-Man.  There's quite a difference. And you're right in saying Frank isn't even close to Drakon's league, because he's not.  Also, my point was he's had difficulty tagging Daredevil, where-as Drakon is significantly faster than Daredevil and has displayed having a very impressive knowledge of hand-to-hand combat. "

Sorry, I meant to put "classic" in there as the current Kingpin has failed hugely in the feats department. 
SO, classic Kingpin = good fight, 50/50 or better chance of  win.  Current = 30% chance...maybe. 
 
 
Why did Kingpin think he had a chance against Spidey in that prison fight when DD took him out to put him there?

"
Classic Kingpin tagged classic Spider-Man.  Current couldn't even touch Spider-Man.  There's quite a difference. And you're right in saying Frank isn't even close to Drakon's league, because he's not.  Also, my point was he's had difficulty tagging Daredevil, where-as Drakon is significantly faster than Daredevil and has displayed having a very impressive knowledge of hand-to-hand combat. "

" Sorry, I meant to put "classic" in there as the current Kingpin has failed hugely in the feats department. SO, classic Kingpin = good fight, 50/50 or better chance of  win.  Current = 30% chance...maybe.   Why did Kingpin think he had a chance against Spidey in that prison fight when DD took him out to put him there? "

" @Deadcool: Actually, there's a  significant difference.  Kingpin was displayed as being more powerful back then.  He laughed off shield strikes and overpowered Spider-Man.  It was bad writing, but that's how classic Kingpin was. "

I do so miss the old days :^} 
 
@Deadcool: Yea, I've only seen the scans of the Spidey prison fight so I wasn't totally aware of the circumstances.  Thanks for the clarification :)  I have seen "recent" Kingpin be stabed multiple times and all in DD, but then he took that brutal beating from Matt, so yea.......anyway, he's still a nasty brute and I would hate to go against him. 
 
How does he fare against Drakon here, in your opinion?

"@Deadcool: Yea, I've only seen the scans of the Spidey prison fight so I wasn't totally aware of the circumstances.  Thanks for the clarification :)  I have seen "recent" Kingpin be stabed multiple times and all in DD, but then he took that brutal beating from Matt, so yea.......anyway, he's still a nasty brute and I would hate to go against him.  How does he fare against Drakon here, in your opinion? "

" @Deadcool: Right now I can only go by what's on his page here, but I think his hand speed is his biggest strength in this battle. Both are highly skilled in martial arts and that's most likely what it will come to here.  With the OP so vague all we really know is it's in Fisk's office so I kinda have to lean in his favor in this one.  I'm just waiting for a Drakon supporter so I can get more informed on his abilities.  *Waits for k4tzm4n to come back and school us  ;^}* "

" @OmegaDynasty: Your point? "

" @OmegaDynasty: There's an entire debate about classic Kingpin's showings on the previous page.  Drakon's speed just puts him on a whole different level when it comes to street level threats.  Connor Hawke couldn't tag him once in hand-to-hand during their two battles, one of which he had help, too.  That combined with his strength and knowledge of nerve strikes should allow him to drop Fisk. "

" @Deadcool: Bad writing in terms of the character's set abilities and limitations.  "

" @Deadcool:  
1) No, those levels don't fit with the current.  Kingpin has no powers, he's meant to be a physically impressive man...Not someone capable of overpowering Spider-Man, and as their latest encounter showed, he should by no means even be allowed to touch Parker.  
2)Question: Why would you say Kingpin wins when it's clear you have no knowledge of Drakon.  Should you ask about him BEFORE saying the opponent wins? Why jump to the conclusion? "

1. His levels FIT with the current, but the way he used those levels in that issue are dumb, happy? Also he is strong enough to destroy a human body, that feat has been always consistent in the character, if the Kingpin is able to reach you, he is able to destroy you, the Kingpin has also awesome feats in speed, and he has only won against people that is near to him, Daredevil and Spider-man  are able to move so fast (At least that in the common attribute in both) for that reason they are able to win against the Kingpin.
2. Well, I know  the elements that need Drakon to win, and I know what makes the Kingpin so dangerous and I don't have a real anwer for that reason I am asking you.
   

" @Deadcool: 
1) The Kingpin is fast for a man his size, but he's not on par with characters like Wolverine in terms of speed.  Simply put, Kingpin IS impressive, but the classic showings were exaggerated. 
2) If you don't know Drakon, why would you say Kingpin wins? That's my question.  As for Drakon, he has at least peak human strength (or so it appears) and is definitely faster than Daredevil. "

1. Of course not Wolverine is SO fast, but his pain tolerance to pain+speed+strength are a good combination that would help to get near to anyone.
2. I haven't said that, I said the conditions for Kingpin's win, and What does Drakon needs to win?, I am asking you for feats, that is all I need to know who is going to win.
3. How skilled is he?
   

I think Kingpin has enough durability to last a while, Drakon will eventually win though.

" 1) I'm talking about speed alone, not other factors.  Just speed, Wolverine IS faster than Kingpin.  As is Captain America.
2) Yes, you did. You said Kingpin wins if the fight is in his office.  Despite not knowing Drakon.  And even if it IS in Fisk's office, Drakon wins.
3) Very.  Like I said, he flawlessly toyed with Connor Hawke twice, flawlessly beat Green Arrow, and could move faster than some people could see.  He wins. "

1. Yeah I already said that wolverine is OBVIOUSLY faster than the Kingpin.
2. In the REST of my comment I clearly said
   

   I think that the Kingpin would win in his office because his size, speed and strength , BUT I need to know how fast in Drakon to move from one place to another, and his strength feats, If he is almost as strong as Bane and faster than Daredevil, I think that Drakon could win.

   In that part I am obviously asking for more info and I said a couple of comments before
   

   the Kingpin is only dangerous to Drakon, if he is able to reach him, most of the victories of the Kingpin were in small places and the oponents are near to the Kingpin, the only way to defeat him is with fast attacks (Obviously faster than him).

3. I see, then he wins, he seems to be at Batman's level.
   

"@Deadcool: 
1. I'm aware what you said, I'm capable of reading.   It doesn't matter if you LATER said "Drakon can win IF he's fast or strong enough," which was just you posing the question to find out if he is.  You still started off by saying if it's in Kingpin's office, he wins.  My point? Don't give the outcome of a match if you don't know both characters. 
2.  Batman is probably more skilled, but Drakon has a significant speed advantage.
 
@Donovan Montgomery: Drakon would wipe the floor with Batman in hand-to-hand combat.  Let's see how many blind fanboys get pissed with that one. "

"@Deadcool: 
1. I'm aware what you said, I'm capable of reading.   It doesn't matter if you LATER said "Drakon can win IF he's fast or strong enough," which was just you posing the question to find out if he is.  You still started off by saying if it's in Kingpin's office, he wins.  My point? Don't give the outcome of a match if you don't know both characters. 
2.  Batman is probably more skilled, but Drakon has a significant speed advantage.
 
@Donovan Montgomery: Drakon would wipe the floor with Batman in hand-to-hand combat.  Let's see how many blind fanboys get pissed with that one. "

" @k4tzm4n said:

"@Deadcool: 
1. I'm aware what you said, I'm capable of reading.   It doesn't matter if you LATER said "Drakon can win IF he's fast or strong enough," which was just you posing the question to find out if he is.  You still started off by saying if it's in Kingpin's office, he wins.  My point? Don't give the outcome of a match if you don't know both characters. 
2.  Batman is probably more skilled, but Drakon has a significant speed advantage.
 
@Donovan Montgomery: Drakon would wipe the floor with Batman in hand-to-hand combat.  Let's see how many blind fanboys get pissed with that one. "

Batman stomps the shit out of drakon. "

"@k4tzm4n said:

"@Deadcool: 
1. I'm aware what you said, I'm capable of reading.   It doesn't matter if you LATER said "Drakon can win IF he's fast or strong enough," which was just you posing the question to find out if he is.  You still started off by saying if it's in Kingpin's office, he wins.  My point? Don't give the outcome of a match if you don't know both characters. 
2.  Batman is probably more skilled, but Drakon has a significant speed advantage.
 
@Donovan Montgomery: Drakon would wipe the floor with Batman in hand-to-hand combat.  Let's see how many blind fanboys get pissed with that one. "

Batman stomps the shit out of drakon. "

" @Deadcool: 
1. I'm aware what you said, I'm capable of reading.   It doesn't matter if you LATER said "Drakon can win IF he's fast or strong enough," which was just you posing the question to find out if he is.  You still started off by saying if it's in Kingpin's office, he wins.  My point? Don't give the outcome of a match if you don't know both characters. 
2.  Batman is probably more skilled, but Drakon has a significant speed advantage.

1. Because is a little place and I already said the resons and, Does that bothers you? I mean, you are being anoying for me, I was asking for more info, I NEVER stated  my post as a fact, a real answer. Yes I am mad.
   
2. I see.
   

" @Deadcool: Did you see Kingpins battle with Batman?  May not be "cannon" but it was written by DC. I still think the only chance Drakon has is he keeps his distance and doesn't get in close.  Kingpin will get his hands on him and crush him. "

" @Deadcool: 
You don't get it, and I'm sorry you don't.  Perhaps I'm not elaborating enough. 
Exhibit A: You stated Kingpin wins if it's in his office. 
Exhibit B: You stated you need to learn about Drakon, proving you have no sound knowledge of him. 
 
Why does this make me facepalm? I'll tell you. 
1) You stated Kingpin wins if it's in his office, despite not knowing the opposing character.  That's like me having no knowledge of Galactus, then jumping into a Galactus VS Gambit thread and going: "Gambit wins if it's in New Orleans."  Despite knowing one character well, I wouldn't know squat about the other.  Therefore, even if I ask for information on Galactus, me saying "Gambit wins if it's in New Orleans" is just stupid.  
2) The moral of the story? Learn about both characters before saying someone wins under certain circumstances.  Because I'd dispute that even in his office, Kingpin loses. 
 
PS. 
There's a lot in life to get upset about.  Debating on the internet shouldn't be one of them.

1. Sorry, but I think I needed to explain Why an office is the Pefect place for Kingpin's win, being a little place Is easy to reach the oponent, that is What I mean, Daredevil lose his first fight against the Kingpin in a little place, wheere the Kingpin was able to reach him despite his speed, and I posted What does Drakon needs to win, all I needed is info from you.
   I never believed in my answer as a fact.
2. I just wanted to say the conditions that I would acept for Drakon's win, that wasn't a real answer, and I will post Whatever I want to post, this is not a formal discussion, I just added some points, some posibilities NOT A REAL ANSWER, Why are we talking about this? I never said that the Kingpin wins because he is in his office, he wins because the lack of space and movements that you can execute in a little room, that the Kingpin's SIZE and PAIN TOLERANCE would help to reach Drakon if he wasnt that fast enough, but you said that he was faster than Batman, so Drakon has an awesome feat, so he wins.
3. I am mad, because I don't know if you are actually reading my comments, because I am saying the same things once and once again, we shuld stop talking about this, is stupid and we already agree about the win, I rarely post in a battle When I don't know all the elements of the character, and If that is the case, I just posted to add some points, that I what I did in this thread.
   

 
 
Simply put, you're allowed to post whatever you wish (as long as it follows the rules), but to say someone wins without knowing the other character is just...Well, silly.  You can get mad and upset all you like, or you can realize I'm trying to help you become a better debater.  Learn about both parties before assuming posting one character can win, regardless of location.  I've said all I wanted to.  I understand your mindset, and I hope I've elaborated enough for you to understand my complaints regarding your style of debating.

" @entropy_aegis said:

" @k4tzm4n said:

"@Deadcool: 
1. I'm aware what you said, I'm capable of reading.   It doesn't matter if you LATER said "Drakon can win IF he's fast or strong enough," which was just you posing the question to find out if he is.  You still started off by saying if it's in Kingpin's office, he wins.  My point? Don't give the outcome of a match if you don't know both characters. 
2.  Batman is probably more skilled, but Drakon has a significant speed advantage.
 
@Donovan Montgomery: Drakon would wipe the floor with Batman in hand-to-hand combat.  Let's see how many blind fanboys get pissed with that one. "

Batman stomps the shit out of drakon. "

I dunno, Drakon had some pretty impressive feats for the entire 7 comics he appeared in.  I don't think that Batman can beat Connor Hawke so easily in hand to hand combat.  Maybe Batman can win with proper equipment, in hand to hand I see Drakon taking it. "

" @Deadcool:
1. I understand you saying why a certain environment would help.  There's no issue there.  My issue is with what you said will be in point #2. 
2. I understand why you said Kingpin wins if he's in his office.  I'm not a two year old, I can understand why a certain environment would benefit a man of his physical abilities and combat style.  My issue is people on this site attempting to "debate" and declaring winners without even knowing the opposition.  
 
This is your post below.  See if you can spot the contradiction.
 
 "I think that the Kingpin would win in his office because his size, speed, strength and" 
You say you think Kingpin wins because you're aware of his physical capabilities....The problem? You know NOTHING about who he's fighting, so saying he can even win in that scenario is meaningless considering the lack of knowledge on his opponent. 
   
Then you, in the same sentence, confess you don't know Drakon, and need to lean about him.  It's good that you're attempting to learn about him, though.
"But I need to know how fast in Drakon to move from one place to another, and his strength feats, If he is almost as strong as Bane and faster than Daredevil, I think that Drakon could win. "

 
 
Simply put, you're allowed to post whatever you wish (as long as it follows the rules), but to say someone wins without knowing the other character is just...Well, silly.  You can get mad and upset all you like, or you can realize I'm trying to help you become a better debater.  Learn about both parties before assuming posting one character can win, regardless of location.  I've said all I wanted to.  I understand your mindset, and I hope I've elaborated enough for you to understand my complaints regarding your style of debating.

"