Kid Flash vs Speed

Is that Bart?

OOps bart

bump

I would have said definately Wally.

Probably Bart.

bump

Speed isn't as fast, and has a much more narrow power set than Kid Flash.  The victory goes to Kid Flash.

Why can't Speed use the speed force?

Speed force only exists in DC verse, so obviously they're in that verse other wise this battle would just be the prologue part of Bully Beatdown. And if Speed Force is reserved for speedsters...Tommy IS a speedster. Everything about his body is for speed. He's more durable and stronger than Bart..Wally..whoever this is. Soo he's a speedster. And if he can hit mach 5(and probably over since he's already shown to have abilities QS doesnt' ahve and he's almost as fast) then he should be pretty darn fast without it correct?

That and since he doesn't have to touch someone to make them explode...

@Spydey said:

Why can't Speed use the speed force?

Speed force only exists in DC verse, so obviously they're in that verse other wise this battle would just be the prologue part of Bully Beatdown. And if Speed Force is reserved for speedsters...Tommy IS a speedster. Everything about his body is for speed. He's more durable and stronger than Bart..Wally..whoever this is. Soo he's a speedster. And if he can hit mach 5(and probably over since he's already shown to have abilities QS doesnt' ahve and he's almost as fast) then he should be pretty darn fast without it correct?

That and since he doesn't have to touch someone to make them explode...

I'm pretty sure there are speedsters who don't use the Speed Force.

Who? Every good speedster I can think of are able to tap into thie Valhalla for speedsters. Something QS and Speed should be worthy of. The only baddy speedsters I know of are Zoom and Inertia, but they're not speedsters, they're time manipulators.

@Spydey said:

Who? Every good speedster I can think of are able to tap into thie Valhalla for speedsters. Something QS and Speed should be worthy of. The only baddy speedsters I know of are Zoom and Inertia, but they're not speedsters, they're time manipulators.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_Force#Non-empowered

Okay, I'll give you that. But have they ever tried though?

@Spydey said:

Okay, I'll give you that. But have they ever tried though?

I don't know, but it's no use speculating. Because the Speed Force isn't necessary for having super speed, simply sufficient.

So there's no use trying to theorize that a speedster from another universe will gain connection to it just by being super fast.

@Jezer said:

@Spydey said:

Okay, I'll give you that. But have they ever tried though?

Speed Force isn't necessary for having super speed, simply sufficient.

Well..what else could possibly be for?

Bart

@Spydey said:

@Jezer said:

@Spydey said:

Okay, I'll give you that. But have they ever tried though?

Speed Force isn't necessary for having super speed, simply sufficient.

Well..what else could possibly be for?

Let me rephrase that: Speed Force is a sufficient path to gaining super speed, but it is not required. There are other ways to have super speed.

Superman has superspeed, but he can't just try to somehow gain the speedforce simply because he has superspeed. That's not how it works.

lol

@Jezer: Superman can't access speed force because he's not a speedster. Superman is not. He's just able to run fast because of his strength. QS and Speed ARE speedsters. So by definition, they COULD access the speed force if they tried to commune with it.

@Spydey said:

@Jezer: Superman can't access speed force because he's not a speedster. Superman is not. He's just able to run fast because of his strength. QS and Speed ARE speedsters. So by definition, they COULD access the speed force if they tried to commune with it.

No on all counts.

@kajitatsu: But he's not a speeedster. Just like most heavy hitters can move at superspeed, it's just his strength. It's the equivalent of a Linebacker and and a relay sprinter.

@Jezer: lol, this debate is going..nowhere

@Spydey said:

@Jezer: Superman can't access speed force because he's not a speedster. Superman is not. He's just able to run fast because of his strength. QS and Speed ARE speedsters. So by definition, they COULD access the speed force if they tried to commune with it.

@Spydey said:

@Jezer: lol, this debate is going..nowhere

Yeah. Because this isn't debatable. It's an objective fact, according to comic canon that

1. Superman is a speedster.

2. Superman doesn't use the Speed Force

3. Not all speedsters can/need to access the Speed Force, for superspeed.

You can't speculate based off incorrect facts.

Kid Flash

The kid

@kajitatsu: Jay garrick doesn't need it, but yea.

@Jezer:A speedster is a fictional character in superhero fiction, particularly comic books, whose primary power is the superhuman ability to perform physical and/or mental acts at impossibly high speeds.

Now, I've looked up several lists of Speedsters and not on one did I see superman. One was dedicated to JUST DC speedsters. If what you say was the case, then we'd see Green Lantern. Spider-man can run pretty damn fast. Hulk hits the 300 mph mark if I'm correct. That's faster than Speed demon and Joystick. Heck that's almost as fast classic quicksilver. Namor and Aquaman can swim preeeeetty darn fast. Apparently magneto can move. Wonder Woman. Cheetah. Ultimate Tony Stark has a pretty fast mind. Ohp, don't forget Thor. And so on.

Bart breaks him.

@Spydey said:

@kajitatsu: Jay garrick doesn't need it, but yea.

@Jezer:A speedster is a fictional character in superhero fiction, particularly comic books, whose primary power is the superhuman ability to perform physical and/or mental acts at impossibly high speeds.

Now, I've looked up several lists of Speedsters and not on one did I see superman. One was dedicated to JUST DC speedsters. If what you say was the case, then we'd see Green Lantern. Spider-man can run pretty damn fast. Hulk hits the 300 mph mark if I'm correct. That's faster than Speed demon and Joystick. Heck that's almost as fast classic quicksilver. Namor and Aquaman can swim preeeeetty darn fast. Apparently magneto can move. Wonder Woman. Cheetah. Ultimate Tony Stark has a pretty fast mind. Ohp, don't forget Thor. And so on.

A speedster is one who can run and react at superspeed. What constitutes as superspeed is up for debate,

But, even supposing your definition is correct, having the primary power of superspeed does not mean that it comes from the Speed Force or they can access the speed force.

You know that post where I brought up Superman not having access to the speed force? Insert any of the below character instead; my point is still valid.

Non-empowered

Other DC Comics heroes with superspeed gained from magic such as Impala, Kid Impala, and Yaguareté of the Super Malon appear to have definite limits on their powers. Metahumans like Reflex (Sovereign 7), Red Shift (Freedom's Ring), Jaculi I, Jaculi II, Mas y Menos, Well-Spoken Sonic Lightning Flash, Blur (White Martian hybrid), Baroness Blitzkrieg, and Pellmell of theHellenders appear to have an upper limit to their speed, and no access to the Speed Force.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_Force#Non-empowered

If you've looked up so many "speedster lists", how come you haven't found the insanely easy to find list of speedsters who don't use the Speed Force? Seriously.

@Spydey: You said Superman ran fast due to his strength which isn't true. He runs fast because he has superspeed.

But on the topic you've been talking about., I think someone explained this to you before. Having a connection with the speed force will make you a speedster. But being a speedster doesn't mean you are connected to the speedforce in anyway.

@vuviper: He has superspeed because he can squat like fifty planets.

Yea, the speed force thing I realized. I mean, I still kinda think if Wally crossed over to the marvel u, then Quicksilver or Speed could be able to commune with it, or something.