Kenshiro would win, the guy had a skyscraper fall on his head and he didn't even flinch and just continued walking, Luffy's durability is also meaningless against Kenshiro because of Hokuto Shin Ken.
Kenshiro would win, the guy had a skyscraper fall on his head and he didn't even flinch and just continued walking, Luffy's durability is also meaningless against Kenshiro because of Hokuto Shin Ken.
Kenshiro would win, the guy had a skyscraper fall on his head and he didn't even flinch and just continued walking, Luffy's durability is also meaningless against Kenshiro because of Hokuto Shin Ken.
Kenshiro would win, the guy had a skyscraper fall on his head and he didn't even flinch and just continued walking, Luffy's durability is also meaningless against Kenshiro because of Hokuto Shin Ken.
What's that?
The martial art Kenshiro uses.
But how would it nullify Luffy's durability?
Because it involves instant kill attacks.
What does that mean? Anything physical is just going to bounce off Luffy. Unless Kenshiro is using chi or energy or something, attacking Luffy in a vital won't do anything. A Shigan/Finger Pistol to the throat should be classified as an "instant kill attack", yet when Lucci tried that Luffy suffered no damage.
Kenshiro's moveset involves the Nanto martial arts, which allows him to cut and pierce opponents at a distance.
Loading Video...
Here, Kenshiro uses a move by Yuda to attack Shuu from a distance. The same video implies that Kenshiro knows the techniques of every person he's every fought in Fist of the North Star. Hokuto Shinken has attacks that allow attacks from a distance as well.
Loading Video...
This attack is lethal, and allows Kenshiro to hit Luffy's pressure points from a fair amount of distance away.
Kenshiro would win, the guy had a skyscraper fall on his head and he didn't even flinch and just continued walking, Luffy's durability is also meaningless against Kenshiro because of Hokuto Shin Ken.
What's that?
The martial art Kenshiro uses.
But how would it nullify Luffy's durability?
Because it involves instant kill attacks.
What does that mean? Anything physical is just going to bounce off Luffy. Unless Kenshiro is using chi or energy or something, attacking Luffy in a vital won't do anything. A Shigan/Finger Pistol to the throat should be classified as an "instant kill attack", yet when Lucci tried that Luffy suffered no damage.
Kenshiro uses attacks that target pressure points that are on every living being, he's demonstrated these kind of attacks working on beings with abnormal bodies like Luffys. Even though Luffy has an elastic body it does not mean that when he is attacked no pressure is applied to him, Kenshiro's attacks don't require any real force to work either.
@mayan_fist: Those cuts didn't look very powerful, I don't think they'll be enough to injure Luffy substantially. During the Captain Kuro fight in East Blue, Jango's pendulum was slicing an entire forest down, it went through large trees like butter, yet Luffy stopped it with his head.
Gallery
So his cutting durability is pretty good. He's also able to dodge Rankyakus/Tempest Kicks pretty easily even without going into Second Gear, so it's possible he'd just dodge that attack.
The other technique looks pretty deadly, but is it blunt force or piercing? If it's blunt force it won't do any damage, every part of Luffy's body is rubber - flesh, hair, organs, AND pressure points, so the attack would just bounce off. If it's piercing, I still don't think it's strong enough to injure him considering Luffy can stand up to Shigans/Finger Pistols pretty well.
How is Kenshiro's durability? Since Luffy can oneshot Pacifistas post-timeskip, he might be able to end this fight quickly.
Kenshiro would win, the guy had a skyscraper fall on his head and he didn't even flinch and just continued walking, Luffy's durability is also meaningless against Kenshiro because of Hokuto Shin Ken.
What's that?
The martial art Kenshiro uses.
But how would it nullify Luffy's durability?
Because it involves instant kill attacks.
What does that mean? Anything physical is just going to bounce off Luffy. Unless Kenshiro is using chi or energy or something, attacking Luffy in a vital won't do anything. A Shigan/Finger Pistol to the throat should be classified as an "instant kill attack", yet when Lucci tried that Luffy suffered no damage.
Kenshiro uses attacks that target pressure points that are on every living being, he's demonstrated these kind of attacks working on beings with abnormal bodies like Luffys. Even though Luffy has an elastic body it does not mean that when he is attacked no pressure is applied to him, Kenshiro's attacks don't require any real force to work either.
What do you mean by abnormal bodies? Again unless Kenshiro uses some form of energy that can be considered an equivalent to haki, or he has feats of injuring a rubber body, then there's no reason to believe he'll be able to injure Luffy. Like I said above, EVERY part of Luffy's body is rubber. His hair and insides have been shown to be elastic, there's no reason to believe his pressure points aren't. He was able to survive getting punched and stomped on by Gekko Moriah after he absorbed 1,000 shadows, which made him strong enough to split an entire island in half with one punch, and Luffy just stood back up totally fine, so Kenshiro probably isn't strong enough to injure him by conventional means.
It's piercing. Although the depiction can be interpreted as a chi attack, as the original series showed a laser-like energy projection coming out of his fingers. Also, it wouldn't matter what the pressure points would be made of, as he's even found pressure points in objects such as tanks.
Loading Video...
As for durability and strength? The video below shows that he's able to collapse tall skyscrapers with a single punch. Notice how Kenshiro allows each skyscraper to fall on him, while he displays no reaction. Using his own body strength, he walks through each building, the pace of his walk unimpeded. Also notice that at 1:36 the entire building's weight is concentrated on Kenshiro's body before finally collapsing.
Loading Video...
This same video shows how acute Kenshiro's hearing and senes are, as he's able to hear a distressed Lin's voice from across the city.
It's piercing. Although the depiction can be interpreted as a chi attack, as the original series showed a laser-like energy projection coming out of his fingers. Also, it wouldn't matter what the pressure points would be made of, as he's even found pressure points in objects such as tanks.
As for durability and strength? The video below shows that he's able to collapse tall skyscrapers with a single punch. Notice how Kenshiro allows each skyscraper to fall on him, while he displays no reaction. Using his own body strength, he walks through each building, the pace of his walk unimpeded. Also notice that at 1:36 the entire building's weight is concentrated on Kenshiro's body before finally collapsing.
This same video shows how acute Kenshiro's hearing and senes are, as he's able to hear a distressed Lin's voice from across the city.
he did not use pressure-point attacks against the tank, he simply damaged it so much that the tank was malfunctioning. Kenshrio cant just miraculously find pressure-points and proof is the fight against Souther.
yeah the famous skyscraper feat..... if people think that building level durability is impressive they havent seen much from One Piece and Luffy is busting buildings since Arlong park...
ATATATATATATATATATATATA. Kenshiro has a technique that works on people of Luffy's body type (short of)
no, the guy was extremly FAT and claimed Kenshiros techniques wont work against him without any feats. thats not the same as someone who has body composed of rubber
Kenshiro would win, the guy had a skyscraper fall on his head and he didn't even flinch and just continued walking, Luffy's durability is also meaningless against Kenshiro because of Hokuto Shin Ken.
What's that?
The martial art Kenshiro uses.
But how would it nullify Luffy's durability?
Because it involves instant kill attacks.
What does that mean? Anything physical is just going to bounce off Luffy. Unless Kenshiro is using chi or energy or something, attacking Luffy in a vital won't do anything. A Shigan/Finger Pistol to the throat should be classified as an "instant kill attack", yet when Lucci tried that Luffy suffered no damage.
Kenshiro uses attacks that target pressure points that are on every living being, he's demonstrated these kind of attacks working on beings with abnormal bodies like Luffys. Even though Luffy has an elastic body it does not mean that when he is attacked no pressure is applied to him, Kenshiro's attacks don't require any real force to work either.
What do you mean by abnormal bodies? Again unless Kenshiro uses some form of energy that can be considered an equivalent to haki, or he has feats of injuring a rubber body, then there's no reason to believe he'll be able to injure Luffy. Like I said above, EVERY part of Luffy's body is rubber. His hair and insides have been shown to be elastic, there's no reason to believe his pressure points aren't. He was able to survive getting punched and stomped on by Gekko Moriah after he absorbed 1,000 shadows, which made him strong enough to split an entire island in half with one punch, and Luffy just stood back up totally fine, so Kenshiro probably isn't strong enough to injure him by conventional means.
It seems that you're under the impression that Kenshiro attacking pressure points is basically the same as him attacking a weak point with blunt force to do some sort of critical strike or something, and this simply isn't the case. By hitting his opponents pressure points Kenshiro can essentially make people self destruct, it's nothing to do with how much force Kenshiro has attacked the pressure point with.
Kenshiro would win, the guy had a skyscraper fall on his head and he didn't even flinch and just continued walking, Luffy's durability is also meaningless against Kenshiro because of Hokuto Shin Ken.
What's that?
The martial art Kenshiro uses.
But how would it nullify Luffy's durability?
Because it involves instant kill attacks.
What does that mean? Anything physical is just going to bounce off Luffy. Unless Kenshiro is using chi or energy or something, attacking Luffy in a vital won't do anything. A Shigan/Finger Pistol to the throat should be classified as an "instant kill attack", yet when Lucci tried that Luffy suffered no damage.
Kenshiro uses attacks that target pressure points that are on every living being, he's demonstrated these kind of attacks working on beings with abnormal bodies like Luffys. Even though Luffy has an elastic body it does not mean that when he is attacked no pressure is applied to him, Kenshiro's attacks don't require any real force to work either.
What do you mean by abnormal bodies? Again unless Kenshiro uses some form of energy that can be considered an equivalent to haki, or he has feats of injuring a rubber body, then there's no reason to believe he'll be able to injure Luffy. Like I said above, EVERY part of Luffy's body is rubber. His hair and insides have been shown to be elastic, there's no reason to believe his pressure points aren't. He was able to survive getting punched and stomped on by Gekko Moriah after he absorbed 1,000 shadows, which made him strong enough to split an entire island in half with one punch, and Luffy just stood back up totally fine, so Kenshiro probably isn't strong enough to injure him by conventional means.
It seems that you're under the impression that Kenshiro attacking pressure points is basically the same as him attacking a weak point with blunt force to do some sort of critical strike or something, and this simply isn't the case. By hitting his opponents pressure points Kenshiro can essentially make people self destruct, it's nothing to do with how much force Kenshiro has attacked the pressure point with.
Kenshiro never encountered someone with Luffys body, (he is not extremly FAT like the guy from FotNS who claimed to be immune to Kenshiros techs without any feats - luffys body is compossed of rubber), so lets assume his pp-technique works then what should happen to luffy?
eg the famous head-exploding - in G3 luffy expands his bodyparts to Giant size, without any problems so why should we assume luffys head would simply explode, in a tie-in to "One Piece Movie Z" someone with the ability to change sizes goes inside luffy and then expands his hole body to the size of a giant and again with no problems. in G2 luffy increases his blood flow to such limits that je starts to emit smoke.
by using G2/G3 luffy does worse things to his body than any of Kenshiros techniques would do.
but not only that Kenshiro doesnt have feats to assume his technqiues would work on a rubber body, even in strength/speed Luffy is above him and we shouldnt forget that Luffy has precog + the ability to increase his durability/destructive capabilities even further thanks to haki.
@ratava: btuh it doesn't matter. Ken is hax. He'll use his anti dumb anime technique to beat luffy. GG
nah, he is not that hax, people simply overestimate Kenshiro because 95% of his time he is fighting fodder or they are using feats that never happened in the manga, like stopping the train with a finger or the fight against Joker or using Muso Tensei as a nfl, a technique that he used three times in the entire manga run and even those feats are not that impressive
It's piercing. Although the depiction can be interpreted as a chi attack, as the original series showed a laser-like energy projection coming out of his fingers. Also, it wouldn't matter what the pressure points would be made of, as he's even found pressure points in objects such as tanks.
Loading Video...
As for durability and strength? The video below shows that he's able to collapse tall skyscrapers with a single punch. Notice how Kenshiro allows each skyscraper to fall on him, while he displays no reaction. Using his own body strength, he walks through each building, the pace of his walk unimpeded. Also notice that at 1:36 the entire building's weight is concentrated on Kenshiro's body before finally collapsing.
Loading Video...
This same video shows how acute Kenshiro's hearing and senes are, as he's able to hear a distressed Lin's voice from across the city.
According to Ratava, Kenshiro wasn't using pressure points on the tank, he just punched it until it broke. It's basically your word against his now, I haven't watched Fist of The North Star so I really have no idea what to believe. I'm still pretty unclear on what exactly Kenshiro's ability even is. His style allows him to find the weak points in objects and opponents? I think I get that, but if his only means of damage is punching and kicking, or otherwise blunt force, he still can't injure Luffy.
The skyscraper feat is a pretty radical showing of strength, but without the means to put Luffy down, I still have to side with the pirate on this one.
Kenshiro would win, the guy had a skyscraper fall on his head and he didn't even flinch and just continued walking, Luffy's durability is also meaningless against Kenshiro because of Hokuto Shin Ken.
What's that?
The martial art Kenshiro uses.
But how would it nullify Luffy's durability?
Because it involves instant kill attacks.
What does that mean? Anything physical is just going to bounce off Luffy. Unless Kenshiro is using chi or energy or something, attacking Luffy in a vital won't do anything. A Shigan/Finger Pistol to the throat should be classified as an "instant kill attack", yet when Lucci tried that Luffy suffered no damage.
Kenshiro uses attacks that target pressure points that are on every living being, he's demonstrated these kind of attacks working on beings with abnormal bodies like Luffys. Even though Luffy has an elastic body it does not mean that when he is attacked no pressure is applied to him, Kenshiro's attacks don't require any real force to work either.
What do you mean by abnormal bodies? Again unless Kenshiro uses some form of energy that can be considered an equivalent to haki, or he has feats of injuring a rubber body, then there's no reason to believe he'll be able to injure Luffy. Like I said above, EVERY part of Luffy's body is rubber. His hair and insides have been shown to be elastic, there's no reason to believe his pressure points aren't. He was able to survive getting punched and stomped on by Gekko Moriah after he absorbed 1,000 shadows, which made him strong enough to split an entire island in half with one punch, and Luffy just stood back up totally fine, so Kenshiro probably isn't strong enough to injure him by conventional means.
It seems that you're under the impression that Kenshiro attacking pressure points is basically the same as him attacking a weak point with blunt force to do some sort of critical strike or something, and this simply isn't the case. By hitting his opponents pressure points Kenshiro can essentially make people self destruct, it's nothing to do with how much force Kenshiro has attacked the pressure point with.
I get that how much force he applies doesn't matter, but if the means of inflicting the damage is still force in the first place, then it will not harm Luffy. I haven't watched North Star and there already seems to be a lot of conflicting opinions in this thread about Kenshiro's ability and what he can do, but from what I've read, I still don't see any indication that Kenshiro's attacks are anything other than blunt, concussive force. But enough about defense, let's not act like all Luffy can do is rely on his rubber anatomy. His speed and striking force are both nuts, Kenshiro might have a hard time keeping up with his acrobatic and fluid fighting style. I'm not caught up on the Timeskip yet, but during Ennies Lobby, most CP9 members were completely unable to see Luffy at all. That says a lot when the weakest member, Kalifa, was able to react to lightning.
It's piercing. Although the depiction can be interpreted as a chi attack, as the original series showed a laser-like energy projection coming out of his fingers. Also, it wouldn't matter what the pressure points would be made of, as he's even found pressure points in objects such as tanks.
Loading Video...
As for durability and strength? The video below shows that he's able to collapse tall skyscrapers with a single punch. Notice how Kenshiro allows each skyscraper to fall on him, while he displays no reaction. Using his own body strength, he walks through each building, the pace of his walk unimpeded. Also notice that at 1:36 the entire building's weight is concentrated on Kenshiro's body before finally collapsing.
Loading Video...
This same video shows how acute Kenshiro's hearing and senes are, as he's able to hear a distressed Lin's voice from across the city.
According to Ratava, Kenshiro wasn't using pressure points on the tank, he just punched it until it broke. It's basically your word against his now, I haven't watched Fist of The North Star so I really have no idea what to believe. I'm still pretty unclear on what exactly Kenshiro's ability even is. His style allows him to find the weak points in objects and opponents? I think I get that, but if his only means of damage is punching and kicking, or otherwise blunt force, he still can't injure Luffy.
The skyscraper feat is a pretty radical showing of strength, but without the means to put Luffy down, I still have to side with the pirate on this one.
the proof that he doesnt simply "know" pressure points of objects or people is the fight with Souther. Kenshiro attacked him a couple of times with his pp-techs but with no effect and he couldnt explain why they wont work. then after some time fighting Kenshiro burried his finger in Southers chest and noticed that his blood flow is inverted and thus came to the conclusion that all his organs are inverted and it was revealed that Souther was born with http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Situs_inversus.
later i can post pictures if you want, im on my phone atm.
i cant remember anything in the manga to assume Kenshiro can use his pp techniques against Objects.
Okay so after reading nearly every response to this topic, I just realized that almost none of you are opening your eyes up to the possibilities of each side. One side is purely on FoTNS and the other is purely on One Piece. This is why I hate arguing with fans, as I try to get into a nice fun arguement but then they seem to not want to open there eye's to anything possible for both sides. In all honesty, I think character fights are only fun and interesting when you are dealing with people that have watched and or read about both sides fully, not just one side goes with One Piece and knows ABSOLUTELY nothing about FoTNS other that youtubing a few clips and making an assumption based on not even looking at 1% of the series content. Before I begin, I am a fan of FoTNS and a fan of One Piece. I like both a lot as they are very creative and both have badass protagonist, but, in short, I do believe that Kenshiro would win this and with good reason and I am responding simply due to the fact that it seems that everyone on Luffy's side seem to have no clue to Kenshiro's powers, how they work, or what they even are. How I will set this up is I will list common arguement's against Kenshiro and respond to them. Now then, let's begin.
One common arguement for Luffy's side is that he is made of Rubber so the PP attacks won't work. This would be true, but everyone has forgotten one small thing: Hokuto Shin Ken can penetrate any body type. This was revealed in the FoTNS movie when Roah, who also uses the same MA as Ken, was able to strike a power point in a man made of a sort of steel and was able to make him explode. I'm no scientist, but I am fairly sure that Steel is way stronger and more durable than Rubber, so the whole "He's made of Rubber" thing is pretty much thrown out the window and if we want to get the closer to Kenshiro penetrating something Rubber-like, then Ken Vs. Heart was one as well. Many say that doesn't count, but it should and does because it has shown that he can and will penetrate any body type. Steel is a lot harder to penetrate than Rubber so I am sure that Kenshiro will have no problem pressing a power point on Luffy. Kenshiro can use these attacks amazing fast too so it is possible that if Kenshiro lands even a finger on him literally, Luffy will explode. This means Kenshiro can one shot kill Luffy, BUT, Luffy will not just stand there too and allow Kenshiro to hit him like that. Ken is gonna have to attack Luffy, but, throughout this fight, I am sure Kenshiro will land a punch or kick on Luffy, and if it happens to be a PP attack, then yes, Luffy is fucked I'm afraid, so Luffy better have his guard up a lot in this fight as one hit from Ken could end it I'm afraid. Kenshiro has fought against many opponents with unusual body types, so I'm sure that Rubber should be just as easy as some of the others. Another arguement is that "Luffy is immune to physical/blunt attacks". I will admit that Luffy has an EXETREMLY high pain resistance but he is not completely immune and also, Kenshiro has a way higher pain resistance than Luffy such as the skyscraper feat, taking countless blows from many without a scratch, ETC check out the respect thread on that if you want to see more, but anyway, the fight between Luffy and Lucci prove this as Lucci was able to beat him down pretty badly and hurt him with some physical attacks alone. Also, most claim Luffy is immune to blunt attacks. Not true, Ussop's impact dial was proven in the fight between him and Luffy to have enough blunt force to even hurt and, as a result wound Luffy. He has also been knocked out before by Nami in the fight between him and Zoro in one of the earlier episodes (Forgive me, I forgot which episode number though). Kenshiro can press your power points without even appearing to move too which is quite insane meaning to achieve such a thing means that Ken is moving so fast you can't even see him, so if Luffy let's his guard down for even a second, all it takes is for one finger anywhere on Luffy's body and Ken's famous "Omae Wa Mou Shindeiru" before poor Luffy explodes into bloody rubbery bits which would be a sad day indeed :(
The thing about the power points which not many people seem to understand is that they are not hit by Kenshiro with purely blunt, excessive, concussive force. They are actually hit through both the spiritual energy of Hokuto Shin Ken and the positioning of said move. This was revealed countless times in many fights with Ken and when he first fought Souther, whose power points were reversed and Ken didn't know yet at the time but, even with Souther having his power points reversed, Kenshiro still went for a PP attack and it actually still affected Souther despite Ken not hitting it right, and it still gave Souther some damage, but, since Ken didn't hit it right, Souther was able to block out said attack before it could do anymore damage to him. Just look up Ken vs Souther on youtube for the evidence. It is true though THAT, like many have said, Kenshiro did not hit a power point on the tank and destroy it or attempt any special shit to destroy it. That was just him unleashing a can of whoop-ass on a tank. Inanimate objects like the skyscrapers, buidlings, cliffs, ETC. that he hits do NOT have power points. That is just Kenshiro's raw strength alone doing it's job. The power points he hits though in living things rely purely on what point he hits, and how much spiritual energy he puts into it, which he has mastered HNK so well; this is why he doesn't even look like he is trying when he pushes someones power point. And many times, he doesn't hit power points when he is fighting, he will just beat your ass up, and maybe, if you're lucky, he will spare you from the horrible power point attack that may await you. And he can also use blasts from HNK to touch power points as well, as revealed by his Heaven blast and from Roah when he shot a blast (I don't know the name of) at a man completely made of steel and made him explode which I have mentioned before. So therefore, the rubber arguement, which seems to be the most common is not a good one at all. Kenshiro can still use HNK on Luffy, and as a result, could result in a gruesome nasty death. For those not understanding what I meant by the whole Power point thing still, look at it like this XD:
Loading Video...
Arguement #3: "Kenshiro is not that fast"...It is debatable if Kenshiro is faster than Luffy, or if Luffy is faster than Kenshiro, but, Kenshiro has been shown various times being able to instantly teleport and reappear at nearly hypersonic speed. He is also seen many times throughout both the Manga and the show to be able to strike power points without even being visible or shown doing said attack. This was revealed first in the Rei arc when Kenshiro was able to strike one of Yuda's bandits without even moving. Kenshiro was also proven to be able to travel miles away to save Lin in nearly 20 seconds in the movie. Luffy is incredibly fast too, especially with both 2nd, 3rd, and even Nightmare Luffy, but Kenshiro can surely hold his own with his speed. With both his hypersonic teleportation and his pure speed alone, I'm sure he can stack up against Luffy. And Mosuo Tensei increases his speed to reality breaking feats incredibly, but I won't pull out the "Mosuo Tensei" card YET. Kenshiro has also been able to dodge many attacks are near the speed of light with ease. One in particular being him being able to catch Hyoh's punches with ease and being able to avoid almost any Nanto attack thrown at him (The Martial Art of slicing people up at hypersonic speed). Kenshiro has reflexes that seem to far surpass Luffy and also has a higher awareness of his senses when fighting. Luffy has remarkable Reflexes too I will admit such as him being able to dodge Ussop's ninja stars with ease, and with the Gears on, they improve greatly, but, to say he becomes faster than Kenshiro's is pushing it, though Luffy's reflex and awareness can surely help him hold his own in this fight too, but not by much. Kenshiro's kinetic vision alone can allow him to catch arrows and shoot them back with his bare fingers with incredible force. His eyesight has also been proven to see the aura of anything in any setting, be it a completely dark room to the open wasteland he lives in itself. He has leg speed that is able to be move 100m in 9 seconds, also said by creators and the wiki. In "New Fist Of The North Star" a 3-episode OVA, he was able to fight Sanga who was very deadly and claimed to have the Martial Art of a god. Kenshiro dodged most of Sanga's blindingly fast attacks with ease to which Kenshiro then responds "You trained well, I will give you that, but, even with all your precognitive, you've merely been keeping up with my AFTER-image". Luffy is pretty fast too though, especially with 2nd and 3rd Gear, but it is very debatable if Luffy is faster than Ken. But both have more than enough speed to keep up with one another.
Arguement #4: "Luffy is made of Rubber and is way more durable than Kenshiro"...Another small thing here is that Kenshiro can turn his skin into steel. Revealed when he was fighting against his brother Jagi, Kenshiro revealed that he was able to use HNK and it's rage to turn his body harder than steel. Kenshiro has been able to walk through a toppling Sky scraper on his head before the building itself broke in two and left Kenshiro without a scratch. Jagi attacked Kenshiro with large blocks of concrete and it broke into many pieces and left Kenshiro without a scratch. Both are exetremly durable and Luffy still can use his amazing durability as well to hold his on, I agree, but to say that it overpowers Kenshiro is quite a stretch with that alone as Luffy has seen to get hurt by far weaker attacks like some of Sanji's kicks and the impact dial. Kenshiro also had his body attack by a steel building part which simply bent against his body. There are many other feats displaying his durability, especially in the FoTNS Manga. People will also say that any attack will bounce off Luffy due to his body being made of Rubber from the gum gum fruit, which is simply not true. Again, Luffy has been hurt, beaten, and nearly killed many times through out One Piece, so if we follow that logic, then that means things like Lucci should not have been able to hurt Luffy and that Ussop's impact dial would have blasted off of Luffy and fly right back at Ussop and hurt him, NOT Luffy...which it didn't, it did in fact, not only hit Luffy, but made him go flying backwards. Zoro's tornado would not work on Luffy then, and also, the running gag of Sanji constantly kicking Luffy due to his annoyance towards Sanji like when he nearly told Ussop to get off the Strawhat crew then would have not sent Luffy back and smashing into the box...So again, the whole "Any attack will bounce off of Luffy and not hurt him" is not true at all. I think that would be taking Toon-force to a whole new level than it already has with One Piece, because, and let's be honest, the Toon-force in One Piece is nearly insane haha. The following video clip is not even a fraction of how strong and durable Kenshiro is.
Loading Video...
This video also shows me disregarding the whole "Monkey is Rubber so attacks would bounce off of him thing"
Loading Video...
Arguement #5: "Luffy is stronger than Kenshiro"...This is pushing it now. Kenshiro has shown to have INCREDIBLE strength that, in my opinion, far surpasses Luffy by a ton. Luffy is very strong despite his rather slender and skinny build, yes. Luffy was able to move two buildings away, Punch Lucci through a wall, being able to tackle down doors, he was even able to hold a huge brick square from squishing him before and managed to escape, and even kicked a ship's mast into oblivion...Luffy and his strength cannot be looked down upon, but Kenshiro has shown far greater feats through out again, both Manga and the show. A few would be being able to punch a hole through part of an entire cliffside, being about to then cut down said part of the cliffside and then throw it in an exploded damn to stop the hole. Another would be him punching a Skyscraper down and being able to walk through it. Another would be him lifting Fudo, a man who weighed over 2000 pounds and two kids which Fudo was holding out of Quicksand with purely a rope and his left hand ONLY with little struggle. Him kicking guys into space during a twisted version of post apocalyptic olympics alone is also another. Him breaking a man's arm in arm wrestling who had his strength upgraded x10 from a fake "Toki" is another. It's also said that HNK's strength is infinite and even has the power to rival a god alone. (Not implying Luffy is a god) And it's said by the creators itself that Kenshiro's strength overall is unmeasurable due to HNK being nearly infinite in power. A few other strength feats of Ken's is stopping a train with two fingers. Punching the top of a building and making it collapse. Kicking a 200kg man over 25m into the air. Another would be holding a boulder than weighs a shit load of tons in HNK 2. But that's in the Anime itself alone. What's scarier is that Kenshiro is way stronger in the Magna O_O. Check out Kenshiro's respect thread to see his countless other feats of strength, speed, agility, ETC. Some even say Kenshiro is so strong that he could take on and possibly kill Superman...but that's another battle for another day.
Arguement #6: "Luffy can use 2nd or 3rd gear and Haki"...For those familiar with FoTNS, Kenshiro has fought opponents that are pretty much the equivalent of 2nd and 3rd gear. A few would be Souther, Kaioh, Roah, and Falco. FoTNS is a brutally fucked up world filled with super natural Martial Arts that rely on light/super/hypersonic speed, strength, durability, ETC. to win. In other words, and I'm not trying to diss my fellow One Piece fans in anyway, but, 2nd or 3rd Gear to Kenshiro is pretty much a standard Monday to him. Those gears aren't anything new to Kenshiro or anything he hasn't seen as he has fought many opponents that already have incredible speed, strength, and agility alone. Hyoh is a prime example of this, which Ken was able to catch his punches; over 1,000 punches per second, not letting one single punch land on him. It's said he would have caught 10,000 is it weren't for Hyoh being betrayed later on. and Kaioh too, who is quite possibly the strongest of enemies that Kenshiro had to face, right next to Roah and Souther. They all had light to nearly hypersonic attacks and techniques that Kenshiro was able to overpower and win against. 2nd and 3rd gear and/or Haki would give Kenshiro some trouble though and I am sure that Luffy will damage Kenshiro up quite a bit with those, but Luffy doesn't punch as constant or as fast of some of them do, but I'm sure he may be able to damage Ken somewhat like I already said because his Gomu Gomu No is just that badass with 2nd or 3rd gear on haha. Kenshiro will have a challenge as well, but he has been able to conquer these traits of the Gears before, some with ease.
Arguement #7: "Kenshiro would win at close range but not at long range"...Again, those familiar with FoTNS should know that Kenshiro doesn't just have close range physical attacks. Kenshiro has been shown to be able to shoot blasts from long range before. A couple of examples would be his Heaven Blast in Hokuto No Ken 2 and in the FoTNS movie where Ken was able to fly in the air and shoot a powerful blast that exploded a crater in the ground when he threw a punch at Roah from far away. Kenshiro, as I have mentioned, can also float with his spiritual energy and can jump incredibly high too. But, I am sure Luffy can dodge a few of his Ki blasts but will still have some trouble trying to dodge them all and there blast radius I will admit. But Kenshiro can fight at both close, and long range too. And let's not forget that thanks to Mosuo Tensei, he can use many other styles too, including the Hard Fist style (Mastered by Roah), Nanto, ETC.
Arguement #8 "Luffy is smarter than Ken"...No. Just No. I did say at the start of my reply that you need to open your mind to the both sides for even chances of events but that is something that doesn't sit right with me. Luffy is a character I love due to his somewhat nature of stupidity. He's a hand-to-hand beast, yes, but Kenshiro is really more intelligent all around. Kenshiro is a genius in fighting and uses many tactics against his opponents, and while you can say that Luffy completely improvises his attacks which could possibly give him the edge, Kenshiro improvises most of his tactics as well. Kenshiro is smart enough to plan tactics simply by looking at you and can you read your movements in an instant, and therefore can determine ways to take you down. He's seriously one of the smartest people you could meet when it comes to fighting, and that can be a danger to Luffy, despite how deadly Luffy can be. Kenshiro holds no morals when it comes to fighting. He will kill you if he has too and therefore, is one of the most brutal characters in anime, while Luffy is somewhat of the opposite as he does hold strong morals when fighting such as nearly showing Ussop mercy when he tricked Luffy into thinking he was badly wounded by spewing nearly a gallon of blood all over (Which was really ketchup). Meanwhile, if Kenshiro saw a bandit doing that, he would still kill them with no remorse...
Arguement #9: "Mosuo Tensei will not work on Luffy"...I didn't really wanna use this card until I read that because this is just silly now. When I read that, I felt like I was reading the roleplaying between a couple of children: "I use invisibility!" Other Kid: "Nuh uh, I have a magical power that makes your invisibility useless and now I slice you in two!". Mosuo Tensei or Hoktuo Renkitoza, for those that don't know, is a powerful and ultimate technique in Hokuto Shin Ken. Mosuo Tensei lets him tap into nothingness, and can use even the power from the ENTIRE universe when he taps into that state. This allows Kenshiro to defy all laws of physics and science itself such as being able to split up his very atoms and instantly teleport within a milisecond to his opponents from any distance, he can also float right through any and all attacks, making him intangible, or in other words: no attack can work or hurt Kenshiro in this state. And it's unlimited time wise. Yep, Mosuo Tensei has no time limit and can be used once mastered, at any moment for any amount of time. Mosuo Tensei also allows Kenshiro to use techniques from everybody he has fought and been affected by. He can take any style he has seen and been hit with and make it his own.Yes, this includes that it is possible for Kenshiro to steal Luffy's awesome "Gomu Gomu No" and many of his other moves, and yes, the same goes for many of the top tier opponents of FoTNS like Shin, Jagi, Roah, Toki, Souther, Hyoh, Kaioh, Falco, Fudo, Rei and countless others. He can take any attack thrown against him too and use it. For those still unsure, it's kinda like Ussop's impact dial, throw an attack at Kenshiro in this state and now he has said move in his arsenal. Mosuo Tensei is also matter destroying, meaning Luffy's Haki shield could possibly be destroyed by Mosuo Tensei since it can destroy anything including any type of matter in it's path due to it's incredible force. I know it's sound exetremly overpowered, and I agree that it is, but in this state of spirtual awareness, Ken is pretty much a god himself. Being able to defy science itself, becoming invincible to all attacks, being able to travel nearly past hypersonic speed, can destroy anything in it's path, and so on, and so on pretty much makes him a god. To say that Mosuo Tensei would not be a threat against Luffy is really just pushing it even more. There are moves that can counter Mosuo Tensei, but this is only from people like Roah that were strong enough and Roah was able to counter it himself because he also mastered Mosuo Tensei through Yuria...though I won't spoil the rest of that for those trying to catch up on the series :). And I'm sure Luffy doesn't have any moves that can counter Mosuo Tensei unless he himself is even more of a badass then I thought and somehow also mastered HNK...though that sounds pretty awesome I will admit haha.
So in short, I love One Piece. It's a great show with a colorful and vast world and quite possibility the most charming cast of characters I've ever seen and Luffy is by far one of the most powerful characters in all of Anime history. Monkey D. Luffy could take down many of my favorite Anime characters alone such as Afro Samurai, Possibly Vash the Stampede, Naruto, Jin and Mugen, ETC. But, unfortunately in my opinion, Kenshiro is not one of them. Luffy is a hand to hand beast and is not a someone to be taken lightly, but, Kenshiro in my opinion has honestly shown himself to be too much for Luffy. The way I see this fight going down is that Luffy would surely bruise Kenshiro up quite a bit, but, judging from what I've seen Kenshiro do, nothing is impossible for him. From me watching the entire Anime and reading all the Manga alone, he's been shown to be able to do the impossible. He's unpredictable, he's cunning, he's fast, amazingly strong, and is always coming up with new moves and techniques. He has defeated people who can bend reality literally themselves and has conquered many amazing feats that outnumber Luffy a bit too much. While it is true that since One Piece isn't done yet and probably nowhere close to being over which means Luffy can get more powerful over time, I still believe Kenshiro is still way above Luffy in my opinion. Luffy isn't anything Kenshiro hasn't seen and or fought against already and I am sure while yes, it will be an epic fight, in the end, I could only see Kenshiro winning this fight. And I'm not even talking about Kenshiro going into Mosuo Tensei yet, if he used that for the fight, I'm sorry but as much as I love Luffy, he is going to die. There's a reason that Kenshiro was ranked number 3 for the most powerful anime character of all time and with good reason. In all honesty, I think the only anime character that could give Kenshiro a run for his money and could even kill Ken would be Goku. Kenshiro vs. Goku would be amazing as well haha. So the way I see it, Kenshiro is the winner here. Again, no hate please as I love One Piece, but I just can't see Luffy beating Kenshiro. I've seen Luffy get beaten up and nearly killed more times than Kenshiro ever would, in fact, the only time I considered Kenshiro nearly dead was against Shin (The start of the series), Souther, Roah, and Kaioh, but again, he has beaten all of them in the end. And if people like Lucci can beat up Luffy without a devil fruit, and Zoro, who held his own fairly well against Luffy early in the series, and the fact that there are characters in One Piece stronger than Luffy, a prime one being Barthalowmew Kuma...anyway I'm sure Kenshiro will be the one walking away in the end. And don't think I am just a Kenshiro fan boy as I can well put up a fight if I were on Luffy side vs. someone I know Luffy could take on and beat. But here, sorry, but Luffy can't beat Kenshiro I'm afraid. Kenshiro is in the top tier, right next to Goku in my opinion, so the Winner in my book: Ken!
One common arguement for Luffy's side is that he is made of Rubber so the PP attacks won't work. This would be true, but everyone has forgotten one small thing: Hokuto Shin Ken can penetrate any body type. This was revealed in the FoTNS movie when Roah, who also uses the same MA as Ken, was able to strike a power point in a man literally made of steel and was able to make him explode. I'm no scientist, but I am fairly sure that Steel is way stronger and more durable than Rubber, so the whole "He's made of Rubber" thing is pretty much thrown out the window and if we want to get the closer to Kenshiro penetrating something Rubber-like, then Ken Vs. Heart was one as well. Many say that doesn't count, but it should and does because it has shown that he can and will penetrate any body type. Steel is a lot harder to penetrate than Rubber so I am sure that Kenshiro will have no problem pressing a power point on Luffy. Kenshiro can use these attacks amazing fast too so it is possible that if Kenshiro lands even a finger on him literally, Luffy will explode. This means Kenshiro can one shot kill Luffy, BUT, Luffy will not just stand there too and allow Kenshiro to hit him like that. Ken is gonna have to attack Luffy, but, throughout this fight, I am sure Kenshiro will land a punch or kick on Luffy, and if it happens to be a PP attack, then yes, Luffy is fucked I'm afraid, so Luffy better have his guard up a lot in this fight as one hit from Ken could end it I'm afraid. Kenshiro has fought against many opponents with unusual body types, so I'm sure that Rubber should be just as easy as some of the others. Another arguement is that "Luffy is immune to physical/blunt attacks". I will admit that Luffy has an EXETREMLY high pain resistance but he is not completely immune and also, Kenshiro has a way higher pain resistance than Luffy such as the skyscraper feat, taking countless blows from many without a scratch, ETC check out the respect thread on that if you want to see more, but anyway, the fight between Luffy and Lucci prove this as Lucci was able to beat him down pretty badly and hurt him with some physical attacks alone. Also, most claim Luffy is immune to blunt attacks. Not true, Ussop's impact dial was proven in the fight between him and Luffy to have enough blunt force to even hurt and, as a result wound Luffy. He has also been knocked out before by Nami in the fight between him and Zoro in one of the earlier episodes (Forgive me, I forgot which episode number though). Kenshiro can press your power points without even appearing to move too which is quite insane meaning to achieve such a thing means that Ken is moving so fast you can't even see him, so if Luffy let's his guard down for even a second, all it takes is for one finger anywhere on Luffy's body and Ken's famous "Omae Wa Mou Shindeiru" before poor Luffy explodes into bloody rubbery bits which would be a sad day indeed :(
The movie is not canon, it doesnt follow the manga correctly.
Kiba Daiō uses a technique that hardens his body like the cp9 Tekkei, so completely different as shown in the Movie where a thin layer of metal protects his skin after he activates his technique, so body hardening is not the same as "literally made of steel".
Heart is a bad example as countless times mentioned in this thread, HE IS FAT and claims that he is immune to Kenshiros but doesnt have any feats. so completely different like Luffys body composed of rubber, you cant possibly compare fat with rubber, that doesnt make any sense.
Kenshiros Pain Resistance > Luffy? i doubt that (eg. Impel Down/Marineford) and the skyscraper is not impressive for the tier we are talking here, it would be pretty unimpressive if Kenshiros durability is < building level
lucci doesnt really matter, we are talking about current Luffy or am i mistaken? after the time skip Lucci is nothing more than fodder.
Luffy knocked out by Nami? i really really hope you are not serious, thats the same as if i post a scan where kenshiro got pierced by an arrow thrown by Raoh as a feat. lol
Arguement #3: "Kenshiro is not that fast"...It is debatable if Kenshiro is faster than Luffy, or if Luffy is faster than Kenshiro, but, Kenshiro has been shown various times being able to instantly teleport and reappear at nearly hypersonic speed. He is also seen many times throughout both the Manga and the show to be able to strike power points without even being visible or shown doing said attack. This was revealed first in the Rei arc when Kenshiro was able to strike one of Yuda's bandits without even moving. Kenshiro was also proven to be able to travel miles away to save Lin in nearly 20 seconds in the movie. Luffy is incredibly fast too, especially with both 2nd, 3rd, and even Nightmare Luffy, but Kenshiro can surely hold his own with his speed. With both his hypersonic teleportation and his pure speed alone, I'm sure he can stack up against Luffy. And Mosuo Tensei increases his speed to reality breaking feats incredibly, but I won't pull out the "Mosuo Tensei" card YET. Kenshiro has also been able to dodge many attacks are near the speed of light with ease. One in particular being him being able to catch Hyoh's punches with ease and being able to avoid almost any Nanto attack thrown at him (The Martial Art of slicing people up at hypersonic speed). Kenshiro has reflexes that seem to far surpass Luffy and also has a higher awareness of his senses when fighting. Luffy has remarkable Reflexes too I will admit such as him being able to dodge Ussop's ninja stars with ease, and with the Gears on, they improve greatly, but, to say he becomes faster than Kenshiro's is pushing it, though Luffy's reflex and awareness can surely help him hold his own in this fight too, but not by much. Kenshiro's kinetic vision alone can allow him to catch arrows and shoot them back with his bare fingers with incredible force. His eyesight has also been proven to see the aura of anything in any setting, be it a completely dark room to the open wasteland he lives in itself. He has leg speed that is able to be move 100m in 9 seconds, also said by creators and the wiki. In "New Fist Of The North Star" a 3-episode OVA, he was able to fight Sanga who was very deadly and claimed to have the Martial Art of a god. Kenshiro dodged most of Sanga's blindingly fast attacks with ease to which Kenshiro then responds "You trained well, I will give you that, but, even with all your precognitive, you've merely been keeping up with my AFTER-image". Luffy is pretty fast too though, especially with 2nd and 3rd Gear, but it is very debatable if Luffy is faster than Ken. But both have more than enough speed to keep up with one another.
sorry i thought you are not the typcial kenshiro fanboy but i guess i was wrong. musuo tensi realtiy breaking feats? kenshiro dodges attack near the speed of light? wtf
Arguement #5: "Luffy is stronger than Kenshiro"...This is pushing it now. Kenshiro has shown to have INCREDIBLE strength that, in my opinion, far surpasses Luffy by a ton. Luffy is very strong despite his rather slender and skinny build, yes. Luffy was able to move two buildings away, Punch Lucci through a wall, being able to tackle down doors, he was even able to hold a huge brick square from squishing him before and managed to escape, and even kicked a ship's mast into oblivion...Luffy and his strength cannot be looked down upon, but Kenshiro has shown far greater feats through out again, both Manga and the show. A few would be being able to punch a hole through part of an entire cliffside, being about to then cut down said part of the cliffside and then throw it in an exploded damn to stop the hole. Another would be him punching a Skyscraper down and being able to walk through it. Another would be him lifting Fudo, a man who weighed over 2000 pounds and two kids which Fudo was holding out of Quicksand with purely a rope and his left hand ONLY with little struggle. Him kicking guys into space literally alone is also another. Him breaking a man's arm in arm wrestling who had his strength upgraded x10 from a fake "Toki" is another. It's also said that HNK's strength is infinite and even has the power to rival a god alone. (Not implying Luffy is a god) And it's said by the creators itself that Kenshiro's strength overall is unmeasurable due to HNK being nearly infinite in power. A few other strength feats of Ken's is stopping a train with two fingers. Punching the top of a building and making it collapse. Kicking a 200kg man over 25m into the air. Another would be holding a boulder than weighs a shit load of tons in HNK 2. But that's in the Anime itself alone. What's scarier is that Kenshiro is way stronger in the Magna O_O. Check out Kenshiro's respect thread to see his countless other feats of strength, speed, agility, ETC. Some even say Kenshiro is so strong that he could take on and possibly kill Superman...but that's another battle for another day.
again a lot of non canon crap. like the train stop that never happened in the manga. kicking guys into space..... no comment. you think lifting a 2000 POUND guy is impressive? i thought you have read One Piece, in Skypiea Luffy was running around and striking with a 100 TON goldball attached to his arm, before arlong park he hurled giant sea monsters around.
and again the scyscraper feat is not that impressive for the tier we are talking here, especially not for Luffy.
superman agains kenshiro? again i hope you are not serious
i would like to continue but there is so much nonsense in the rest of your reply its not funny anymore
@ratava: Good, good, let the butthurt flow. Seriously though, get mad, it helps! Anyways, the movie is pretty much a summary of the first and second season of HNK. So it can be counted as cannon to follow the events. And both the anime and the Manga can be counted here just as others have been doing with Luffy. Another thing, the whole Nami knocked out Luffy was just me joking around to add some light-heart sarcasm when she punched both Luffy and Zoro to the ground...Did she knock them out? No, but she did send them to the ground, but again, that whole thing was not to be taken seriously, but to also support the claim of Luffy having attacks bounce right off of him. Just skip towards the end of the video for Nami
Loading Video...
Heart many say is a bad example, I figured I would get that, but In my opinion, it's accountable due to the fact that he was massively fat to an almost rubbery like state. Are they the same in comparison? Of course not, which is why I said if we were to get the closest to said scenario of both.
Mosuo Tensei is in a way reality breaking. Forgive me please but I don't see how using the dead spirits of people you have fought to be able to use to your advantage, being able to teleport faster than the eye, and using the entire power of the universe to be perfect in reality? And the skyscraper feat is also very impressive in an act of durability and strength. I know Luffy has done many amazing things with Strength too such as the 100 ton Ball thing but I found Kenshiro's feats to be far greater than that. You may not agree so, but it's my opinion. Didn't except you to get this hot-headed and serious over fictional characters haha. And to call me a fan boy even though I stated I'm not? I mean, come on, even I admitted Luffy is powerful enough to take on some my all time favorites, just not Kenshiro because the way I see it, Kenshiro could beat Luffy. And the Kiba Daio; I said this to show that the power HNK can penetrate any said body type and used it as an example to showing the possibility of Ken being able to penetrate any type of body completely possible in this scenario. And yes, we are talking about current Luffy, to which I pretty much my point there is that Ken is pretty much the upgraded Lucci to Luffy at this point. The way I see it, the fight between Lucci and Luffy in the early One Piece is pretty much how I would see it go down now, just with Second and Third gear added. Luffy has become vastly powerful over time to insane ways and Luffy also has reality breaking feats too. I mean come on 2nd and 3rd gear are reality breaking in many ways man.
My Kenshiro kicking guys into space was also a light-hearted joke not meant to be taken seriously. In one episode where a guy was playing a sick olympic type game with innocent human's, Kenshiro kicked two of henchmen exetremly high into the sky to the point where they even did the whole "Team Rocket blasting off again!" star thing haha. And lastly, you're reading out of context to what I said about the superman thing. I said that OTHER people said that...did I agree with it? No, that's why I said with an implication of me calling bullshit on that by saying "Thats another battle for another day..."
Loading Video...
So in short, chill out man, these are fictional characters that are put into a scenario for fun where people can come along and read and respond to many opinions. No need to get so mad over it. And I'm not even dissing Luffy at all, I gave Luffy quite a few credits in my response and I do believe that Luffy is one of the most powerful characters ever, and I even did admit that Luffy would give Ken some trouble...If I was a "Fan-boy" I would purely stick to Mosuo Tensei and just deny any claim of Luffy being able to hurt Ken. I did read a lot of the One Piece Manga (Not all because I can't afford many volumes) and I watch the show a lot and even have it in my queue on Crunchy Roll man. Calling me a fan-boy seemed to show that you got a little too mad over something not even that serious. My opinion is that Kenshiro would win, you're opinion is that Luffy would win. I simply stated why I thought Ken would win. My intentions were not to insult anybody but to simply have some fun yet you took it to the heart and got super-pissed as if all your pride and all the respect you have to your name lies within you defending One Piece. It's not that serious man, get over it. Jesus. And yes, I still think Kenshiro would win, but that is just my opinion. But again, it's not that serious as well man...
But, I guess judging by your aggresive response towards me, I think it's safe to assume that you're a fanboy/girl of Luffy then eh ;)?
Just an update: A few other reasons why Luffy may lose is like I said before, Kenshiro even admitted that his fighting spiritual energy can make his flesh harder than steel with his fight with Souther. This explains a lot about his durability. And if you guys are wondering why Souther could cut through Kenshiro so easily, it is because Souther also revealed that his fists alone can punch through steel and anything harder than it. Not only that but Kenshiro has tons of secret techniques he can use on his opponents like Heaven Impalement secret technique which is said to have enough power to destroy heaven itself and can allow Ken to touch his opponents power points without even touching them. Another Technique would be his Water Reflection technique which he used first against Shu; He can reflect attacks and use them on his opponents too, without the help of Mosuo Tensei. And Nanto if Ken uses it is blindingly fast, and while Luffy has amazing reflexes, I don't think he'll be able to dodge Nanto much and I am sure that Nanto can cut through Luffy, and if Kenshiro uses any of Souther's, Kaioh, ETC. moves against Luffy, he'll be in for some trouble. Even in one of the One Piece movies, during the final fight, despite Luffy fighting on strong like a badass, even he collapsed from exhaustion and pain after awhile too.
Now that I also think about it, I'm trying to wonder if things like Bullet will work on Kenshiro since his skin is already harder than steel, though I am sure it may do some damage, though I am not certain...And even if Luffy can throw punches blindingly fast, remember, in FoTNS, that pretty much what Kenshiro and all of his enemies do anyway. I'm sure Kenshiro can dodge with ease if he tries and hell, even catch a few. Seriously, if Ken can catch almost 10,000 punches so fast and not having a single one hit him, I am sure he can dodge Luffy's attacks. And even if Luffy goes into 3rd gear and pulls out that huge fist of his, I think that is all just one power point just waiting to be pressed, and Kenshiro can still use Heaven Impalement, which, like I said, can touch power points instantly without Kenshiro having to press them. I am sure despite Luffy's unusual body, he has still bled, been knocked out, bruised, wounded, ETC. which leads me to believe that Luffy does in fact have power points so Heaven Impalement can end it almost instantly. And again, with Mosuo Tensei, he can take any Martial art he see's, and can use it. This means that Luffy doesn't even have to hit Kenshiro to get some of Luffy's abilities, so Mosuo Tensei and 3rd gear on Kenshiro's side combined is even more insane.
And I have already been over Mosuo Tensei heavily so I've already said why it is so deadly in the first place. Seriously, Ken is just too powerful. And Luffy, even with 2nd or 3rd gear on, Ken has already seen and can probably dodge quite a bit of it with ease now that I'm looking back on the series again. I am not surprised though, Kenshiro was literally born to kill. He was kicking guys x10 his size when he was little.
And also, after doing a bit of research, Kenshiro may actually be faster than Luffy as many wiki's and officials say that Kenshiro is at hypersonic speed (Without Mosuo Tensei active, with MT on, Kenshiro becomes Massively hypersonic+) due to him catching 1109 punches per second and nearly caught 10,000. In order to do this, this feat alone puts Kenshiro at mach 20-45 possibly. This adds to Kenshiro's destruction, while Luffy has the destruction capacity of Building level (0.25) tons, Kenshiro (Again, without MT on) is at Town/City level (5.8 kilotons/considered a nuclear attack) and can go even higher with Ki blasts on to possibly country level and with MT on, even higher. It is true that Luffy does go to Hypersonic with Gear second and third on, but Kenshiro is already at that current state with MT off, and with MT on, he goes to Massively hypersonic+ (Credited to the HNK wiki). Add this to the fact that Kenshiro can read his opponents movements before they even happen too makes Ken even deadlier than he already is. And Kenshiro is literally one hit-kill. If Luffy gets hit even once, it may very well be his death. So Luffy better have his guard up the best he can, but, even if Luffy does do so and keep a great defense going, Kenshiro I am sure can still land many hits, blows, and ki blasts on Luffy, so if Luffy gets hit by anything Ken throws at him, just once, Luffy will die.
As for @ratava hate to break it to you buddy, but the Luffy lifting a 100 ton ball feat...Kenshiro's strength is listed as over 1000+ tons to infinite since it is revealed that Hokuto Shin Ken's strength is infinite towards the end of HNK 1. After he lifted a special rock with ease that was estimated to be exactly a 300 ton rock. And the scary part is that his strength is still unmeasurable beyond that point like the creators said since HSK is infinite in power...Not only that, but, as mentioned, he is a range fighter too meaning he can keep a good distance away from Luffy and still win the fight.
His stamina is also incredible as he can go without food for long amounts of time and can breathe in many environmental situations such as under water for long amounts of time and can fight for very long times and not become tired. This contributes to many of his moves such has Hokuto Senjukai Ken which allows him to hit an enemy in a split second with 1000 punches. Tenha Kassesu is another that fires ki blasts that can hit pressure points in any body type from long range. Ganzan Ryozan Ha which can karate chop a person's skull in half. And a big disadvantage to Luffy is water. While Ken can survive even longer in water than humanly possible, Luffy is in deep trouble and can become completely immobilized in water thanks to his Rubber body. Though I will not lie, this shouldn't be a huge problem for Luffy since he can stretch his bodies to insane lengths meaning that this fight doesn't have to be taken to the water, but it is a possibility.
As for some of Ken's move, the deadly moves of Ken's include Kentou Shadan, which, when pressed upon, can disable an opponents fist and can make said opponent unable to move just by passing his hand through it. Hokuto Gosha Ha which also fires an exetremly powerful ki blast that can inflict massive damage on his opponents...and of course...the ultimate of moves, Mosuo Tensei which can disable Luffy's Haki shield if he has one because it is matter destroying and can destroy matter simply by him passing through it. There is a massively large list of his moves that can be found all over the internet and the creators said that Ken has many, many moves, techniques, and abilities that he can use that he never used in both show and the Manga. So we still don't even know what Ken is capable of still meaning he has tons of secret techniques that he can pull out at any moment. And again, with Mosuo Tensei, it is revealed that he can turn into massively hypersonic+ as well. He can also use moves that can take away ones sight, limit their strength from a fraction of what it was to completely disabling it, can take away one's perception, balance, stamina, durability, ETC. Which Ken can press easily and can still press using the special ki blasts that I have mentioned. And with Mosuo Tensei, Kenshiro can seriously just speed right through Luffy and destroy Luffy from a molecular level due to the matter/all destroying aspect of Musuo Tensei. And combine with the fact that Mosuo Tensei lets Kenshiro uses the entire power of the universe, this makes Kenshiro at a tier level of Universal+ power then.
I will not also forget the fact that Kenshiro can use his fighting energy to heal his wounds instantly when enough fighting energy is present too. In the Manga, it gets even more badass, though I will not spoil the Manga as in my opinion, I actually enjoyed it more than the actual show, though both are great. But in the end, Kenshiro is still the ultimate victor in my book. Even in the "vsbattles" wiki, it is said that one of Luffy's notable losses are against Kenshiro...In my eyes, I still see Kenshiro as the winner man. Luffy is badass too and is not a force to be taken lightly too, but Kenshiro is just too much for Luffy in my book. Again, and as always, my Winner: Kenshiro! Besides dude, this post has already determined Kenshiro as the winner when you go to "vsbattles" wiki and click on Kenshiro for Luffy's notable losses; it takes you to this forum dude. Sorry man, but Kenshiro wins. I love Luffy, but Kenshiro stomps in this fight. It is true that Luffy can get more powerful overtime, but these are just the latest stats for Luffy though they can surely get deadlier over time since One Piece isn't over yet. Luffy can destroy MANY anime characters, but Kenshiro is just not one of them. So again, The Winner is: Kenshiro!
nothing new proved with scans, so luffy still stomps
cool
Just as I thought: You're exactly one of those people I mentioned before that don't even attempt to open their eyes up to possibilities. I'm still confused on how MT, a technique that uses the ENTIRE power of the universe which makes Ken at a tier level of Universal+ destruction power, matter destroying which can destroy any and all Haki shields, turns Ken into Massively Hypersonic+, can use any move, Martial Art, or technique just by seeing it or being attacked by it, (Which again, means Ken can steal Luffys' 2nd and 3rd Gear powers, can steal any Gomu Gomu No move of his, including Red Hawk) makes him intangible completely to all attacks, and can do things that defy the laws of physics and science as a whole such as destroying enemies simply by moving at hypersonic speed literally right through them and destroying them from molecular levels...to simply not being able to work on Luffy? This is why I hate arguing with fans that are one sided, it's pointless when the fanboy's will hear stuff like "Kenshiro can use MT *Lists all the impressive things that MT can do*" and next thing you know, people like you go "It wouldn't work, that's invalid, Luffy still stomps!". And since that's the only response you can formulate, Imma just go ahead and say that Kenshiro wins again still. I am an avid One Piece fan and I am also an avid FoTNS fan. I know how powerful both can be, and as much as I love Luffy and One Piece as a whole, Kenshiro just wins this.
You seem to be also forgetting that Luffy isn't even considered Top Tier in his verse as well...The Shanks, Yonkou's, and even the Admirals are still walking about which are all considered to be deadly in Top Tier. I doubt Luffy can still take down an Admiral. In the Maineford arc, as much as I hate to say this, Luffy was practically useless. And he did lose a fight with Kuzan as well as Kuzan seriously ate Luffy's kick and showed no sign of damage to it whatsoever, and Kuzan is also faster than Luffy too. Like I said, I've seen Luffy lose, get beat up, and knocked out more than Kenshiro has ever been...Anybody remember the fight between Luffy Vs Z in the film? As mentioned, while Luffy did fight on strong, even he passed out from both pain and exhaustion.
Kenshiro is already faster than Luffy at his original current state (Luffy is Supersonic without 2nd and 3rd gear on while Kenshiro without MT on is already at Hypersonic+, and with MT on, Kenshiro goes to Massively Hypersonic+ due to the complete universal power it gives him, while Luffy will be only at Hypersonic+ with 2nd and 3rd gear on which is still incredibly fast, but not faster than Ken), Ken is also much stronger than Luffy due to his...O, I don't know...maybe his infinite strength?? Ken is also way more intelligent, has a MUCH, MUCH larger arsenal of moves, secret techniques, ETC. (Sorry but Gomu Gomu Gatling is an impressive example of Luffy's speed and power, but Ken can do the same, except more powerful and way faster as he can punch an enemy 1000 times in a SPLIT second which is beyond amazing which also means that Ken was WAY faster than Hyoh, the same guy who could throw almost 10,000 punches in only 6 seconds. Luffy may be fast, but he's not faster than Ken, a guy who can throw 1000 punches on a guy in not even a full 1 second, but a SPLIT second), and has exetreme durability which was also proven to be tiers higher than Luffy's durability due to Kenshiro being harder than steel (Credited to many wiki's on Luffy and Kenshiro). Ken can read his opponents movements before they even make it too, and just tons of other impressive feats and abilities of Ken including the fact that Ken can do things like take away one's strength, speed, agility, durability, ETC just by touching them...Again, Luffy will still put up a great fight I am sure, but Kenshiro just wins this fight because he is just way too powerful for Luffy in my book. Luffy can destroy many anime characters as mentioned before. He has won almost every debate fight against all characters in Hunter X Hunter, he can beat Vash The Stampede (Possibly), can beat Afro Samurai, Naruto, Jin and Mugen, Samurai Jack ETC. But again, Kenshiro, is just not one of them. He is just too powerful for Luffy to handle, even with 2nd and 3rd gear on and even Nightmare Luffy. You may say things like Luffy can punch incredibly fast, which is true, but remember, Kenshiro has seen that, and done that already. Like I said, the catching of Hyoh's almost 10,000 punches in only 1-6 seconds without letting a single one hit him is still just way to impressive, so I am sure he won't have any problem catching Red Hawk (Possibly), Gomu Gomu Gatling, Bullet, ETC. and let's not forget that in many of Ken's fights, Ken sometimes seems to teleport behind many of his enemies who are attacking from the front and killing them. Just imagine Luffy in 3rd gear using Gomu Gomu Gatling and punching at Ken, and soon, Ken seems to just disappear and then appears from behind Luffy while Luffy has his mouth dropped and his eyes widened in dumbfoundment as Ken does a PP attack. A scenario like that seems possible, especially if Ken has MT on since, again, he is already at Massively Hypersonic+ anyway. Hyoh's punch speed was at 15,240 meters/second. This actually could put Kenshiro at an approximate speed of Mach 45 without MT which is still Hypersonic+. This means in order for Hyoh to do the said nearly 10,000 punches, this could have only taken Hyoh 1-6 seconds at most to do this. So I could see Kenshiro having no problem catching many of Luffy's moves like Gatling and Bullet. And keep in mind that the gears still have a limited time even after the Time Skip while MT is completely unlimited and has no negative effects on Ken's body unlike Luffy's. And Luffy really only uses Third gear on much, much larger opponents so he can assualt them with Third Gear attacks, but this also has negative effects on Luffy's body, even after the Time Skip such as Luffy's shrinkage. And even if he does attack Ken with third gear, Ken still can use MT, which, like I said, makes him intangible/invincible to all attacks. This means that yes, Ken can stand completely still and can get hit by Luffy's massive fist to no avail as it will have no effect on Kenshiro due to the intangibility effect, and, as mentioned before, Kenshiro can now use said move because he has already saw it, and has been hit by it, though I am sure he won't have to rely on stealing Luffy's moves to beat him anyway, but he can steal them and make them his own if he wants too. And keep in mind that Nightmare Luffy has severe consequences with the whole shadow aspect falling into play here, and if you watch One Piece, you should know what I am talking about then XD.
But besides, as already stated, this forum has already chose Kenshiro as the winner anyway, so I don't see why I am still debating haha. I think a much more fair fight would for sure would be Goku in SSJ4, or Superman vs Kenshiro. So again, sorry, but I still see a fight between Luffy and Kenshiro to be awesome, but I'm afraid that Luffy will die and I do believe Kenshiro can, and will kill Luffy. And even if Luffy is bloodlusted, Kenshiro is already like that anyway when fighting against his enemies. Seriously, Kenshiro is brutal as fuck and will kill if he has too, and I am sure even if Luffy is just a young adult that wants to be Pirate King and doesn't want to die...I'm sure Kenshiro wouldn't care and would still kill him. Seriously, check the FoTNS respect thread for more awesomeness.
So in short, Ken is: Way faster, MUCH, MUCH stronger, more durable, way smarter, has WAYY more power (Again dude, Ken has Universal+ destruction power here, come on now), much Sharper reflexes, Jumps way higher, (Proven due to countless Wiki's of Luffy and Ken) more agile, and much more of a combat genius than Luffy will ever be. Kenshiro badly outmatches Luffy in almost every aspect here except for his stretching. And again, the dude can become invincible to all attacks, and can steal ANY attack he wants. And I may not be the smartest, but Ken's speed of Massively Hypersonic+ is just incredible. And unlike Luffy's gears that have a limited time and negative after-effects on Luffy, Kenshiro's MT doesn't. Sorry man, but the way I see it, Luffy should NOT pick a fight with Kenshiro, in fact, why not just invite Kenshiro to join the Straw Hat's instead or at least ask for Ken to tag along for awhile? Come on, if Kenshiro joined the Straw Hat's, they would be the most unstoppable force in the world :D! Kenshiro would pretty much be the new and improved Sanji, and that sounds pretty awesome! Kenshiro and Luffy kicking ass side by side XD.
So again, I find the winner, as always, and so did this forum which ALREADY determined this guy to be the winner is: Kenshiro. Again, no hate to One Piece and Luffy as I love OP, but even I am not afraid to admit that Luffy would get his ass handed to him by Kenshiro. I mean come on, the FoTNS Universe alone won a debate battle against the Bleach Verse, Naruto Verse, and One Piece verse single handedly. And that's because FoTNS isn't really a joking, light hearted show. It's a dark, brutal, gorefest, fucked up, manly show. They even say that Fist Of The North Star puts the "Man" in "Manga" haha. And even in a survery study, people voted Kenshiro to be the third strongest Anime/Manga character ever. Number 1 was Goku of course but I forgot who number 2 was, but it for sure wasn't Luffy. Though I would also put Luffy in my top 10 Anime character list if I ever had one. But anyway, like I said: If you can't beat em', Join em'. So Luffy, instead of fighting Ken should just invite him to join the crew man hahaha. That's the best outcome of this fight. Imagine it, Luffy on the ropes bleeding out and realizes that he can't beat Ken, and ask's Ken to join him and Ken agree's. Best. Ending. Ever.
Please stop using drugs : Kenshiro can at max do 50 punches in 3 seconds in the case of the Hokuto Hyaku Retsu Ken and the Muso Tensei is not "matter disrupting" nor "reality warping", he can pass through attacks unarmed and hit his opponent... It's a kind of intagibility, not much.
Kenshiro can definitely hit some of Luffy's pressure points. The big issue will be how Luffy's body will react to it. At the very least, his body may go haywire and could prevent him from attacking...a bit like his fight with Blueno.
I feel like the majority of people who support Kenshiro either consider him stronger from some bs non canon anime feats or haven't actually read the manga.
For starters the only speed feat Kenshiro has to support that he's even close to Luffy's speed tier (which he isn't even with this one) is the block 10k fists which is just a massive outlier and is inconsistent frankly. It feels like one of those feats where the author just didn't get how fast blocking 10k fists is or just a hyperbole that people misunderstood.
Secondly Muso Tensei while really cool and pretty powerful is not as perfect as people say seen in his fight with Kaioh where all Kaio does is disrupt the ground underneath Kenshiro and the technique is completely nullified (how many attacks does Luffy have that disrupt the ground? A lot). Also although he gains Muso Tensei like halfway through the series for his fight with Raoh he only actually uses the technique like 3 times out of the many many battles he has had with the technique available.
Another thing highly stressed in Kenshiro's favor is his pressure point tech which demonstrated in his fight with Souther can also be completely nullified by having a wierd body which Luffy just so happens to have.
Kenshiro also has one really good Strength feat where he carries the big rock (which is much bigger looking in the anime than the manga) where Luffy has many crazy strength feats.
Luffy just beats Kenshiro all over except in fighting skills which Luffy overcomes for days with sheer fighting power and speed.
Whip feat. He's able to tie two whips in a knot, without Uighur realizing that the whip was travelling back to him.
Gallery
Hyoh's 10,000 punch attack, which, Kenshiro is able to dodge without getting hit, making him at least as fast as Hyoh. Again, he's moving his arms at Mach 29.
Kenshiro uses a ranged attack to hit Souther's pressure points.
Gallery
Raoh punches a guy so hard that it distorts the air and destroys several buildings. Keep in mind, by the end of Fist of the North Star, Kenshiro was stronger than Raoh. And the next and final feat shows:
Gallery
Kenshiro can punch up to 1 - 4 kilotons of force. Think about all of that energy compressed into the space of a single fist. With that kind of force, Kenshiro should at least be able to hit Tony's pressure points.
Whip feat. He's able to tie two whips in a knot, without Uighur realizing that the whip was travelling back to him.
Gallery
Hyoh's 10,000 punch attack, which, Kenshiro is able to dodge without getting hit, making him at least as fast as Hyoh. Again, he's moving his arms at Mach 29.
Kenshiro uses a ranged attack to hit Souther's pressure points.
Gallery
Raoh punches a guy so hard that it distorts the air and destroys several buildings. Keep in mind, by the end of Fist of the North Star, Kenshiro was stronger than Raoh. And the next and final feat shows:
Gallery
Kenshiro can punch up to 1 - 4 kilotons of force. Think about all of that energy compressed into the space of a single fist. With that kind of force, Kenshiro should at least be able to hit Tony's pressure points.
that was already debunked in the other thread
but nobody could proof that Kenshiro is able to even do something with Luffys pressure point because he has never encountered someone with a body made out of rubber
no showings = no feats
+ with precog/g2 luffy is way too fast for Kenshiro to hit him but everything was already stated in this thread
What was already debunked? I proved that the kiloton punch was a legitimate feat in the other thread. Nobody even questioned the other feats.
I think that a guy who can bend steel would be able to at least depress rubber, don't you think? The problem doesn't lie in activating the pressure points, but rather how Luffy's body will react to them.
Without going so far than the guys above : Musou Tensei = Short teleportations : the body is destroyed to be recreated somewhere.
Kenshiro can kill Luffy without touching him, just with his battle aura :
Kenshiro is by far out of his league.
Sueishin > Haki
Musou Tensei > Luffy's attack and can't be negated by the Haki who is used to cancel powers of the Logia users...
And we can add techniques like the Dragon Breath which amp Kenshiro strenght, durability and striking strenght to unmeasurable levels.
Kenshiro base striking strenght allows him to destroy a 5 cm thick metal wall. He can do some piercing or slash damage at will with his hands, even at distance.
We can add the fact that Kenshiro learn assassination techniques since his birth, and according to him he is the heir of the clan Kasumi who has a 2000 years old tradition of assassination.
In clear Kenshiro wins.
PS : I don't know where comes from those delusions about "matter disruption" in the musou tensei but that's never stated in the manga and have read it numerous times since 13 years. :)
@deannunaki: It is just a side effect of the Battle Aura. It is the same against Han and he don't use the Musou Tensei. ^^
I guess it is a misconception. :)
I only refer to the manga because the anime is non-canon: particularly the battle against Joker, the time when Kenshiro is shoot by a whole army when he is in the boat and the one-shot of the train, they never appear in the Manga.
Yeah, I realize that Kenshiro is a fair bit more limited when using manga feats only. A lot of people like to use feats from both sources interchangeably, and it seems to be the norm.
Yeah, I realize that Kenshiro is a fair bit more limited when using manga feats only. A lot of people like to use feats from both sources interchangeably, and it seems to be the norm.
Yes :)
The anime is non-canon. But some of the feats are the same in the anime (serie) and the manga.
Here is the best site (in french) about Hokuto No Ken (the webmaster is from Belgium as I remember).
@ratava: You tell me it's non canon and give me no evidence to back this up, give me evidence please, you need to back things up or else your argument has no foundation and therefore invalid.
Log in to comment