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#51 Posted by GhostRavage (8396 posts) - - Show Bio

@ratava said:

@ghostravage said:

@ratava said:

Lucci uses piercing/slicing attacks within his Rokushiki boosted by his claws/teeth, to me the whole fight is pretty inconsistent if we don´t consider the possibility that Lucci was using a weak form of Haki. Luffy got hurt by Rokuogan but then he gets hit by an Island splitting attack from Moria and nothing happened.

@incap: and then? holding Luffy in the air all day? ^^ and he won´t have the time to concentrate for this attack as we see he doesn´t do it "on the fly". precog/haki+luffy is too much for Kenshiro.

@Haoshoku Haki: till now its only good for fodder so it won´t be of much help here

Lucci's attacks work in a similar way as Jinbe's Gyojin karate... He proved this when he made his ultimate attack with his 2 fists without touching Luffy. And we all know Jinbe's Gyojin Karate has 100% rate of success in overcoming Luffy's immunity to blunt forces.

yeah i remeber that internatl "shock wave" hurts Luffy thingy - but its still kinda stupid because even his internals are composed of Rubber so why would it hurt him? The explanation is a litte iffy itself.

So why would a shock wave that goes thorugh Luffys internal liquids affect him? In gear3 he expands his Body to giant size and speeds up the blood flow in gear2 and nothing happens to him. The same problem goes to the Impact dial Ussop used on Luffy during their encounter.

@ghostravage said:

@ratava said:

@ratava said:

Luffy wins - i doubt that his tk move will do much damage against someone who is composed of rubber(everytime he uses Gear3 we see what he is doing to his body). His pressure points technique won´t work and Luffy has incredible speed, precog + attack/defense boost due to Busoshoku.

Why not? How come Lucci could hurt him? And it could incap him.

Lucci uses piercing/slicing attacks within his Rokushiki boosted by his claws/teeth, to me the whole fight is pretty inconsistent if we don´t consider the possibility that Lucci was using a weak form of Haki. Luffy got hurt by Rokuogan but then he gets hit by an Island splitting attack from Moria and nothing happened.

@incap: and then? holding Luffy in the air all day? ^^ and he won´t have the time to concentrate for this attack as we see he doesn´t do it "on the fly". precog/haki+luffy is too much for Kenshiro.

@Haoshoku Haki: till now its only good for fodder so it won´t be of much help here


Nope, Conqueror's Haki have worked on high mid tiers as well, Zoro proved this while fighting the Icy Harpy i can't remember her name. He affected her Logia powers by intimidation, which is Conqueror's haki as explained by Rayleigh. Also, we have Shanks instance while visiting WhiteBeard, where he KO'd a bunch of 80,000,000+ bounty pirates, most of them from the Old Era... He actually only left Jozu, Marco, Vista and Whitebeard conscious in the whole ship just by passing by.

Unless Zoros usage of Haoshoku Haki is official confirmed i would say those feats are more likely connected to his "Demon Aura / Killing Intent". If Zoro really has used Haoshoku Haki on Monet i am sure Tashigi would have commented about it.

  • The explanation is a little iffy yeah, however, we can assume it works as a shockwave... Luffy has no real visible damage whatsoever while fighting Jinbe, however, he himself says it hurts him. The same with Rob.
  • Actually, Gear2nd affected him before timeskip, he was putting his life at risk while performing it. Also, Gear3rd affected him as well, he became a midget after using it. The fact that he doesn't suffer from this after-effects its due to his training with Rayleigh.
  • That's actually how Zoro's Conqueror's Haki works. He proved it before in Sabaody in the Supernovas encounter. He induces fear on others, intimidation in other words. Even in the same Enies Lobby he showed some degree of this aswell IIRC.
#52 Posted by Ratava (3372 posts) - - Show Bio

@ratava: One touch and hes dead and dont give me that bullcrap it wont work on luffy.

You also forgot mosui tensei which makes him intangible.

your are right - that "one touch and hes dead" is crap

so he can stay intangible for short amounts of time to avoid getting hit by luffy - so he stays all day in mosui tensei and dances around? nice plan

#53 Posted by Ratava (3372 posts) - - Show Bio

@ratava said:

@ghostravage said:

@ratava said:

Lucci uses piercing/slicing attacks within his Rokushiki boosted by his claws/teeth, to me the whole fight is pretty inconsistent if we don´t consider the possibility that Lucci was using a weak form of Haki. Luffy got hurt by Rokuogan but then he gets hit by an Island splitting attack from Moria and nothing happened.

@incap: and then? holding Luffy in the air all day? ^^ and he won´t have the time to concentrate for this attack as we see he doesn´t do it "on the fly". precog/haki+luffy is too much for Kenshiro.

@Haoshoku Haki: till now its only good for fodder so it won´t be of much help here

Lucci's attacks work in a similar way as Jinbe's Gyojin karate... He proved this when he made his ultimate attack with his 2 fists without touching Luffy. And we all know Jinbe's Gyojin Karate has 100% rate of success in overcoming Luffy's immunity to blunt forces.

yeah i remeber that internatl "shock wave" hurts Luffy thingy - but its still kinda stupid because even his internals are composed of Rubber so why would it hurt him? The explanation is a litte iffy itself.

So why would a shock wave that goes thorugh Luffys internal liquids affect him? In gear3 he expands his Body to giant size and speeds up the blood flow in gear2 and nothing happens to him. The same problem goes to the Impact dial Ussop used on Luffy during their encounter.

@ghostravage said:

@ratava said:

@ratava said:

Luffy wins - i doubt that his tk move will do much damage against someone who is composed of rubber(everytime he uses Gear3 we see what he is doing to his body). His pressure points technique won´t work and Luffy has incredible speed, precog + attack/defense boost due to Busoshoku.

Why not? How come Lucci could hurt him? And it could incap him.

Lucci uses piercing/slicing attacks within his Rokushiki boosted by his claws/teeth, to me the whole fight is pretty inconsistent if we don´t consider the possibility that Lucci was using a weak form of Haki. Luffy got hurt by Rokuogan but then he gets hit by an Island splitting attack from Moria and nothing happened.

@incap: and then? holding Luffy in the air all day? ^^ and he won´t have the time to concentrate for this attack as we see he doesn´t do it "on the fly". precog/haki+luffy is too much for Kenshiro.

@Haoshoku Haki: till now its only good for fodder so it won´t be of much help here


Nope, Conqueror's Haki have worked on high mid tiers as well, Zoro proved this while fighting the Icy Harpy i can't remember her name. He affected her Logia powers by intimidation, which is Conqueror's haki as explained by Rayleigh. Also, we have Shanks instance while visiting WhiteBeard, where he KO'd a bunch of 80,000,000+ bounty pirates, most of them from the Old Era... He actually only left Jozu, Marco, Vista and Whitebeard conscious in the whole ship just by passing by.

Unless Zoros usage of Haoshoku Haki is official confirmed i would say those feats are more likely connected to his "Demon Aura / Killing Intent". If Zoro really has used Haoshoku Haki on Monet i am sure Tashigi would have commented about it.

  • The explanation is a little iffy yeah, however, we can assume it works as a shockwave... Luffy has no real visible damage whatsoever while fighting Jinbe, however, he himself says it hurts him. The same with Rob.
  • Actually, Gear2nd affected him before timeskip, he was putting his life at risk while performing it. Also, Gear3rd affected him as well, he became a midget after using it. The fact that he doesn't suffer from this after-effects its due to his training with Rayleigh.
  • That's actually how Zoro's Conqueror's Haki works. He proved it before in Sabaody in the Supernovas encounter. He induces fear on others, intimidation in other words. Even in the same Enies Lobby he showed some degree of this aswell IIRC.

Yeah - but unsless its official confirmed i say he is not using Conqueror´s Haki. I am sure Tashigi would have said something if Zoro was really using it.

#54 Posted by Chibi_cute (4479 posts) - - Show Bio

@ratava: You do know he can attack while he is in intangible right? also he has a battle aura that disintegrates everything caught in path. Kenshiro can even find pressure points on a freaking tank what makes you think it won't work on luffy?

#55 Edited by GhostRavage (8396 posts) - - Show Bio

@ratava: What does Tashigi has to do with Zoro being able to use Conqueror's Haki? He has already a few instances where he uses it. Also, Conqueror's Haki is not that visible either. People always comment about Conqueror's Haki when someone starts KOing people or when someone that actually posses the ability to exploit it sees another user use it. When Luffy used Conqueror's Haki on the wolves with Bon-chan in Impel Down he didn't commented on what happened rather than "What happened?"... See my point? Tashigi doesn't even posses enough Haki to fight high tiers, even Smoker said so, so how will she know when someone uses Conqueror's Haki when she doesn't even have Observational and Armament of Colors Haki developed, not to mention, for someone as scared as Tashigi it would be pretty unlikely for her to even notice Conqueror's Haki let alone awake it. She couldn't even hurt someone with a Logia ability, and that is >basic< for Haki users.

It's explained by Rayleigh and Zoro did it against the Icy harpy. What else do we need? Why do we need Tashigi to comment on something that everything points out to be Conqueror's Haki?

#56 Posted by Ratava (3372 posts) - - Show Bio

@ratava: You do know he can attack while he is in intangible right? also he has a battle aura that disintegrates everything caught in path. Kenshiro can even find pressure points on a freaking tank what makes you think it won't work on luffy?

Because Luffy is made of Rubber so you can hit him all the time with your pressure point technique - it won´t do anything to his body. Scans please where he disintegrates everything with his battle aura and if its possible against high-tier fighters not the usual fodder Kenshiro fights 95% of his time. When does he attack when he is intangible? (its a while since i read it - or better rushed through the manga) and you know Luffy has precog?

#57 Posted by Ratava (3372 posts) - - Show Bio

It's explained by Rayleigh and Zoro did it against the Icy harpy. What else do we need? Why do we need Tashigi to comment on something that everything points out to be Conqueror's Haki?

I am still waiting for an official statement that he uses CH, or for a clear sign like an aura burst as shown by Rayleigh/Luffy/Ace till then he uses his "Killing Intend" or "Demon Aura" (as mentioned by the Supernova at the archipel) but personally i would prefer that it doens´t get confirmed in the future, as mentioned by Oda he will specialize in Busoshoku and one CH-user on the ship is enough :)

#58 Edited by Chibi_cute (4479 posts) - - Show Bio

@ratava: So just because he is made of rubber it won't work on luffy? i thought you already read the manga? or even watched the anime.. he can find pressure points even on inanimate objects that it doesn't even make sense. He knocked out buildings just by merely knocking them with his fist i guess buildings has pressure points too?

Also luffy's precog will only give him a slight advantage compared to kenshiro who can copy all of luffys techniques just by watching them.

#59 Posted by GhostRavage (8396 posts) - - Show Bio

@ratava said:

@ghostravage said:

It's explained by Rayleigh and Zoro did it against the Icy harpy. What else do we need? Why do we need Tashigi to comment on something that everything points out to be Conqueror's Haki?

I am still waiting for an official statement that he uses CH, or for a clear sign like an aura burst as shown by Rayleigh/Luffy/Ace till then he uses his "Killing Intend" or "Demon Aura" (as mentioned by the Supernova at the archipel) but personally i would prefer that it doens´t get confirmed in the future, as mentioned by Oda he will specialize in Busoshoku and one CH-user on the ship is enough :)

  • Conqueror's Haki doesn't always KO creatures/people, even in the first time it was shown it only made an animal flee, which was Shanks instance with the Sea King while saving Luffy. It is not always showed as a burst unless the animation requests it. That "Killing Intend" or "Demon Aura" is due to Zoro's will which can be directly connected to Conqueror's Haki since it works because of it. He became a total different person after fighting Mihawk the first time, let alone taking Kuma's pain bubble and saving the crew.
  • The CH usage on the crew is inevitable... The crew itself will be too powerful at the end for it to only have 1 user... Even in Gold Roger's crew there were various characters with this ability, Gold, Rayleigh, Shanks... We also have a few people that used it out of nowhere... Dragon, Chinjao, Doflamingo... CH is inevitable. Not to mention, Oda since the very first day pictured Zoro as the 2nd in command. He is actually the other 100% fighter on the crew along with Luffy, im quite sure he will have something planned for Zoro since currently he is FAR above his past rival Sanji.
#60 Edited by Ratava (3372 posts) - - Show Bio

@chibi_cute said:

@ratava: So just because he is made of rubber it won't work on luffy? i thought you already read the manga? or even watched the anime.. he can find pressure points even on inanimate objects that it doesn't even make sense. He knocked out buildings just by merely knocking them with his fist i guess buildings has pressure points too?

What does knocking down buildings or destroying inanimate objects have to do with it, especially with his pressure point techniques? Destroying such things is not really impressive at high-tier. And to what are you refering with "finding pressure points", you mean his fight with Souther? And yes because Luffy is made out of Rubber his pp-techniques won´t work besides the fact that he is immune to blunt physical attacks.

@chibi_cute said:

Also luffy's precog will only give him a slight advantage compared to kenshiro who can copy all of luffys techniques just by watching them.

Slight advantage? He sees what attack the enemie is doing next and in which way it will harm him, thats a pretty big advantage especially combined with Luffys incredible speed and what techniques will Kenchiro Copy? gear2/gear3-techniques i highly doubt that, how is he doing that, by miraculously gaining df-abilites an start stretching?

@ghostravage said:

@ratava said:

@ghostravage said:

It's explained by Rayleigh and Zoro did it against the Icy harpy. What else do we need? Why do we need Tashigi to comment on something that everything points out to be Conqueror's Haki?

I am still waiting for an official statement that he uses CH, or for a clear sign like an aura burst as shown by Rayleigh/Luffy/Ace till then he uses his "Killing Intend" or "Demon Aura" (as mentioned by the Supernova at the archipel) but personally i would prefer that it doens´t get confirmed in the future, as mentioned by Oda he will specialize in Busoshoku and one CH-user on the ship is enough :)

  • The CH usage on the crew is inevitable... The crew itself will be too powerful at the end for it to only have 1 user... Even in Gold Roger's crew there were various characters with this ability, Gold, Rayleigh, Shanks... We also have a few people that used it out of nowhere... Dragon, Chinjao, Doflamingo... CH is inevitable. Not to mention, Oda since the very first day pictured Zoro as the 2nd in command. He is actually the other 100% fighter on the crew along with Luffy, im quite sure he will have something planned for Zoro since currently he is FAR above his past rival Sanji.

Zoro is cool without CH, he doesn´t need it ^^

#61 Posted by Moncole (110 posts) - - Show Bio

When someone hurts Luffys friends he gets mad but never goes all out because he doesnt kill. Now imagine Luffy going all out and doesn't care if he kills. I say Luffy will win.

#62 Edited by Nelomaxwell (10368 posts) - - Show Bio

@ratava said:

@starrk01 said:

@ratava: It's Kenshiro's signature catchphrase. After bombarding an opponent with attacks, he utters the words, "You are already dead." and the enemy dies a painful death.

yeah i know that - but his pressure points "you are already death, your body will explode in 5 seconds" techniques won´t work against Luffy.

I still need you to explain why pressure points won't work on Luffy? And did you read till the end of HNK where Ken constantly displays both long range and short range slicing techs? Remember he copied Rei, Shuu, Shin,Shouther, Toki and Raoh. He's used all of their techs before and with frequency. And bro why are you asking when does he attack while intangible. I showed you the fight twice, are you just forgetting when I showed you. Check the respect thread, which I update pretty frequently. Why are you acting like you've never read the manga?

Respect thread

#63 Edited by Ratava (3372 posts) - - Show Bio

@nelomaxwell said:

@ratava said:

I still need you to explain why pressure points won't work on Luffy? And did you read till the end of HNK where Ken constantly displays both long range and short range slicing techs? Remember he copied Rei, Shuu, Shin,Shouther, Toki and Raoh. He's used all of their techs before and with frequency. And bro why are you asking when does he attack while intangible. I showed you the fight twice, are you just forgetting when I showed you. Check the respect thread, which I update pretty frequently. Why are you acting like you've never read the manga?

Respect thread

Please explain how that pp-technique would work against someone who is composed of Rubber? You hit his pp then what (you cant hurt him with them) - even his internals are made out of rubber. What should happen? His blood pressure starts to increase, he blows up? You know what he does to his body in gear2/3? He stretches body parts to enormous size so why would he just explode - if he is affected by such a technique in the first place?

How does he hit someone when he is intang? He uses mosui tensei for a short time to avoid an attack and then attacks himself. The only Instance i can remember where he damaged someone while using the mt-intang was in the fight when his mt was countered by another mt and they phased through each other.

Your are forgetting Luffys precog, he sees the attack coming and can avoid it or simply strengthen his defense with haki.

Kenshiro is powerful no doubt - but in the opverse he is maybe around luccis level.

#64 Edited by Nelomaxwell (10368 posts) - - Show Bio
#65 Posted by Ratava (3372 posts) - - Show Bio

and? he avoids getting hit and attacks. don´t see a problem for Luffy to avoid that. instead of posting scans pls give the chapter number if it doesn´t bother you. then i can see the whole "context" myself.

#66 Posted by JwwProd (8722 posts) - - Show Bio

Kenshiro.

Online
#67 Edited by Nelomaxwell (10368 posts) - - Show Bio

@ratava:

Why are you also choosing to forget his Nanto techs or his Go No Ha techs which he uses frequently at the end of the series. Nanto techs slice from a distance remember? And Go No Ha techs explode from a distance. We both know how Hokuto Shinken works, you put your toki into another person to disrupt their insides, it's basically the same stuff that Jinbei and Lucci did except there's not Toki in OP and since we haven't correlated it and Haki. The fact that his internal organs are composed of rubber doesn't stop him from feeling pain unless being made of rubber removes nerves. If that's true then I'm gonna need to see the scans or clip that proves that. And what stops him from doing to him what he did to Heart who had a similar make up albeit not by a devil fruit, but there are no devil fruits in the HNK universe. Death by soft strikes worked on him and unless Luffy has no pressure points what so ever (Again I'm gonna need proof) then he can be hit in them.

Here's the TK Ki explosion. Note the man he's killing is Keni who is a Gunsho, that is the class right below Rasho (Han, Hyoh and Kaiho) So he's not fodder Kenshiro is just stronger than him.

And I know you remember this feat.

#68 Edited by Ratava (3372 posts) - - Show Bio

@ratava:

Why are you also choosing to forget his Nanto techs or his Go No Ha techs which he uses frequently at the end of the series. Nanto techs slice from a distance remember? And Go No Ha techs explode from a distance. We both know how Hokuto Shinken works, you put your toki into another person to disrupt their insides, it's basically the same stuff that Jinbei and Lucci did except there's not Toki in OP and since we haven't correlated it and Haki. The fact that his internal organs are composed of rubber doesn't stop him from feeling pain unless being made of rubber removes nerves. If that's true then I'm gonna need to see the scans or clip that proves that. And what stops him from doing to him what he did to Heart who had a similar make up albeit not by a devil fruit, but there are no devil fruits in the HNK universe. Death by soft strikes worked on him and unless Luffy has no pressure points what so ever (Again I'm gonna need proof) then he can be hit in them.

Here's the TK Ki explosion. Note the man he's killing is Keni who is a Gunsho, that is the class right below Rasho (Han, Hyoh and Kaiho) So he's not fodder Kenshiro is just stronger than him.

And I know you remember this feat.

yeah i know them and iam still not impressed - Luffy is to fast to get caught in his tk attack, for which he has to concentrate and he won´t have time for that especially if Luffy sees the attack coming. And i still see no proof that pp-techniques will work against someone who is composed out of Rubber. You cant compare a fat guy who says his body is like "rubber" against someone who is really made of Rubber, internals etc. Again - Luffy won´t just explode, he increases his blood pressure to points that he is steaming and expands body parts to the size of a giant, he wont just explode.

#69 Posted by Nelomaxwell (10368 posts) - - Show Bio

@ratava said:

and? he avoids getting hit and attacks. don´t see a problem for Luffy to avoid that. instead of posting scans pls give the chapter number if it doesn´t bother you. then i can see the whole "context" myself.

I thought you read the manga bro, what happened? I thought you were speaking from some kind of experience after I sent you the link of the reading chronology.

Here you go though

http://mangawall.com/manga/fist-of-the-north-star/131/15

#70 Edited by Nelomaxwell (10368 posts) - - Show Bio

@ratava said:

@nelomaxwell said:

@ratava:

Why are you also choosing to forget his Nanto techs or his Go No Ha techs which he uses frequently at the end of the series. Nanto techs slice from a distance remember? And Go No Ha techs explode from a distance. We both know how Hokuto Shinken works, you put your toki into another person to disrupt their insides, it's basically the same stuff that Jinbei and Lucci did except there's not Toki in OP and since we haven't correlated it and Haki. The fact that his internal organs are composed of rubber doesn't stop him from feeling pain unless being made of rubber removes nerves. If that's true then I'm gonna need to see the scans or clip that proves that. And what stops him from doing to him what he did to Heart who had a similar make up albeit not by a devil fruit, but there are no devil fruits in the HNK universe. Death by soft strikes worked on him and unless Luffy has no pressure points what so ever (Again I'm gonna need proof) then he can be hit in them.

Here's the TK Ki explosion. Note the man he's killing is Keni who is a Gunsho, that is the class right below Rasho (Han, Hyoh and Kaiho) So he's not fodder Kenshiro is just stronger than him.

And I know you remember this feat.

yeah i know them and iam still not impressed - Luffy is to fast to get caught in his tk attack, for which he has to concentrate and he won´t have time for that especially if Luffy sees the attack coming. And i still see no proof that pp-techniques will work against someone who is composed out of Rubber. You cant compare a fat guy who says his body is like "rubber" against someone who is really made of Rubber, internals etc. Again - Luffy won´t just explode, he increases his blood pressure to points that he is steaming and expands body parts to the size of a giant, he wont just explode.

Okay so what about his nanto cuts? Shuu's long range sweeps? Rei's long range cut's? What's the defense for that? We both know or at least I do that Nanto attacks are cutting and piercing. And also as you noticed, Ken had his battle aura up which blocked other KI waves how will Luffy even get through the aura? Since Touki doesn't exist in OP then we can't tell whether or not he can use Haki to break through it, since they're not the same.

#71 Edited by Ratava (3372 posts) - - Show Bio

@nelomaxwell said:

@ratava said:

and? he avoids getting hit and attacks. don´t see a problem for Luffy to avoid that. instead of posting scans pls give the chapter number if it doesn´t bother you. then i can see the whole "context" myself.

I thought you read the manga bro, what happened? I thought you were speaking from some kind of experience after I sent you the link of the reading chronology.

Here you go though

http://mangawall.com/manga/fist-of-the-north-star/131/15

i rushed more or less through the manga because 95% of the time he stomps fodder ^^ so i skipped to the interesting fights :P

@nelomaxwell said:

@ratava said:

@nelomaxwell said:

@ratava:

Why are you also choosing to forget his Nanto techs or his Go No Ha techs which he uses frequently at the end of the series. Nanto techs slice from a distance remember? And Go No Ha techs explode from a distance. We both know how Hokuto Shinken works, you put your toki into another person to disrupt their insides, it's basically the same stuff that Jinbei and Lucci did except there's not Toki in OP and since we haven't correlated it and Haki. The fact that his internal organs are composed of rubber doesn't stop him from feeling pain unless being made of rubber removes nerves. If that's true then I'm gonna need to see the scans or clip that proves that. And what stops him from doing to him what he did to Heart who had a similar make up albeit not by a devil fruit, but there are no devil fruits in the HNK universe. Death by soft strikes worked on him and unless Luffy has no pressure points what so ever (Again I'm gonna need proof) then he can be hit in them.

Here's the TK Ki explosion. Note the man he's killing is Keni who is a Gunsho, that is the class right below Rasho (Han, Hyoh and Kaiho) So he's not fodder Kenshiro is just stronger than him.

And I know you remember this feat.

yeah i know them and iam still not impressed - Luffy is to fast to get caught in his tk attack, for which he has to concentrate and he won´t have time for that especially if Luffy sees the attack coming. And i still see no proof that pp-techniques will work against someone who is composed out of Rubber. You cant compare a fat guy who says his body is like "rubber" against someone who is really made of Rubber, internals etc. Again - Luffy won´t just explode, he increases his blood pressure to points that he is steaming and expands body parts to the size of a giant, he wont just explode.

Okay so what about his nanto cuts? Shuu's long range sweeps? Rei's long range cut's? What's the defense for that? We both know or at least I do that Nanto attacks are cutting and piercing. And also as you noticed, Ken had his battle aura up which blocked other KI waves how will Luffy even get through the aura? Since Touki doesn't exist in OP then we can't tell whether or not he can use Haki to break through it, since they're not the same.

Right after the timeskip Luffy dodges Laser effortless how is he hitting Luffy with a range attack? Now Luffy fights people who are splitting "ice continents (hyperbole :))" with their head. OP is on a whole other Level than FotNS and we haven´t even seen Luffys upper limits yet.

#72 Edited by Nelomaxwell (10368 posts) - - Show Bio

@ratava: You gotta watch the fights where ken get's messed up. Those are the good ones cause he always finds a way to win based on his stoic nature or love. Again though how does Luffy break through the field. I'll admit Luffy is faster, Ken doesn't have very many speed feats because to be honest he usually can hit people while they're hitting hit. But he's been known to tag people faster than himself like Souther.

#73 Posted by Chibi_cute (4479 posts) - - Show Bio

@ratava: Luffy's incredible speed means nothing.. kenshiro is also hypersonic.

#74 Posted by Ratava (3372 posts) - - Show Bio

@ratava: You gotta watch the fights where ken get's messed up. Those are the good ones cause he always finds a way to win based on his stoic nature or love. Again though how does Luffy break through the field. I'll admit Luffy is faster, Ken doesn't have very many speed feats because to be honest he usually can hit people while they're hitting hit. But he's been known to tag people faster than himself like Souther.

yeah - i have so much on my "watch list" ^^ but the bf4 release is coming and no more holiday this year :D so it has to wait.

#75 Edited by Ratava (3372 posts) - - Show Bio

@chibi_cute said:

@ratava: Luffy's incredible speed means nothing.. kenshiro is also hypersonic.

you think Kenshiro is faster then Luffy? it matters a lot with his precog - and kenshiro doesnt have impressive speed feats.

#76 Edited by saiyan_earthling (5378 posts) - - Show Bio

Musou Tensei>Haki. Period

Intangibility and Matter Disintegration>Haki>Logia

Kenshiro is around Massively Hypersonic, as he could react to, and countered ki blasts, and was able to catch 1109 punches per se in an instant, and may have possibly been able to catch 10,000.

#77 Posted by Ratava (3372 posts) - - Show Bio

Musou Tensei>Haki. Period

Intangibility and Matter Disintegration>Haki>Logia

totally unrelated to this fight - and false - any logia would solo the FotNS-verse


Kenshiro is around Massively Hypersonic, as he could react to, and countered ki blasts, and was able to catch 1109 punches per se in an instant, and may have possibly been able to catch 10,000.

that would matter if Luffy just stands in front of Kenshiro and let him hit but he is nowhere near as fast as Luffy so his punching speed would do nothing for him.

#78 Posted by Chibi_cute (4479 posts) - - Show Bio

@ratava said:

@saiyan_earthling said:

Musou Tensei>Haki. Period

Intangibility and Matter Disintegration>Haki>Logia

totally unrelated to this fight - and false - any logia would solo the FotNS-verse

@saiyan_earthling said:

Kenshiro is around Massively Hypersonic, as he could react to, and countered ki blasts, and was able to catch 1109 punches per se in an instant, and may have possibly been able to catch 10,000.

that would matter if Luffy just stands in front of Kenshiro and let him hit but he is nowhere near as fast as Luffy so his punching speed would do nothing for him.

Punching speed would do nothing? kenshiro can punch up to 6000 punches per second or more and luffy has been hit by far more slower enemies. as if he always dodges the attack. and you haven't posted any counter as to what luffy can counter with musoi tensei

http://outskirtsbattledome.wikispaces.com/Character+Profile+-+Kenshiro

Check kenshiro's char profile below in the notable obd victories and you will see hes notable for defeating luffy.

You lost dude.

#79 Edited by Ratava (3372 posts) - - Show Bio

@chibi_cute said:

@ratava said:

@saiyan_earthling said:

Musou Tensei>Haki. Period

Intangibility and Matter Disintegration>Haki>Logia

totally unrelated to this fight - and false - any logia would solo the FotNS-verse

@saiyan_earthling said:

Kenshiro is around Massively Hypersonic, as he could react to, and countered ki blasts, and was able to catch 1109 punches per se in an instant, and may have possibly been able to catch 10,000.

that would matter if Luffy just stands in front of Kenshiro and let him hit but he is nowhere near as fast as Luffy so his punching speed would do nothing for him.

Punching speed would do nothing? kenshiro can punch up to 6000 punches per second or more and luffy has been hit by far more slower enemies. as if he always dodges the attack. and you haven't posted any counter as to what luffy can counter with musoi tensei

http://outskirtsbattledome.wikispaces.com/Character+Profile+-+Kenshiro

Check kenshiro's char profile below in the notable obd victories and you will see hes notable for defeating luffy.

You lost dude.

Because Luffy wouldn´t just stand there like 90% of Kenshiros enemy and let him hit. And you haven´t posted what mosui tensei would do against Luffy. Scans for mt matter disruption?

Here the hand phases through Kenshiro but the hand looks just fine

I think a lot of people are underestimating Luffy

vanishing from everyones sight an blitzing hody on roids

stomping hody with haki

blitzing 3 fishmen simultaneously

and those aren´t even his actual high feats, thats his standard fighting

#80 Posted by GhostRavage (8396 posts) - - Show Bio

@ratava: He may not need it but he has it. And yeah, Zoro is by far the coolest character after Shanks and Kuma IMHO.

#81 Posted by Immortal777 (6941 posts) - - Show Bio

The fact that Luffy bleeds,eats,feels pain(nerves), sleeps, can be KOed and is a living breathing being means he has pressure points.

#82 Posted by KenshiroFistofWrath (289 posts) - - Show Bio

The fact that Luffy bleeds,eats,feels pain(nerves), sleeps, can be KOed and is a living breathing being means he has pressure points.

Thats right but i am with @ratava on this one, to use pressure points you have to apply pressure to the points (hence the name ^^) and how do you do this on Rubber? If you hit him, he doesn´t have the resistance from a normal body, his rubber would just flex together with the hit. Another problem is, you can´t just make him explode with such a technique as ratava already mentioned he expands himself all the time to gigantic sizes. In one tie-in chapter for Strong World, a df-user who can expand herself was inside Luffy and then used her power to grow to a giant and it hasn´t done any dmg to Luffy.

I love Kenshiro but here he would lose, Luffy is to fast combined with his Haki future telling and his Haki armor.

@ghostravage What do you think? You are one of the few, who is voting for Luffy.

@ratava: He may not need it but he has it. And yeah, Zoro is by far the coolest character after Shanks and Kuma IMHO.

So Wrong

  1. Lucky Roo
  2. Shanks
  3. Rayleigh
  4. Zoro

:P

#83 Posted by GhostRavage (8396 posts) - - Show Bio

@ghostravage What do you think? You are one of the few, who is voting for Luffy.

@ghostravage said:

@ratava: He may not need it but he has it. And yeah, Zoro is by far the coolest character after Shanks and Kuma IMHO.

So Wrong

  1. Lucky Roo
  2. Shanks
  3. Rayleigh
  4. Zoro

:P

  • Kenshiro is in the heart of many, since he's been around for far too long before One Piece, and he's one hell of a badass.. But he can't deal with Luffy overpowered abilities. Luffy is faster, more durable (immune to blunt forces), and has many useful abilities to exploit such as Observational Haki and Armament of Colors. I haven't seen anything on Kenshiro to say he can take down Luffy. I do agree, pressure points shouldn't work on someone who can ricochet bullets and canon balls because he's made out of rubber, let alone being totally splattered by buildings and hammers... You name it.
  • LOLlipops! Lucky Roo is a badass, but he has no feats rather than spending the most time eating the same piece of meat in One Piece :P
  1. Shanks
  2. Kuma
  3. Zoro
  4. Zephyr

its more accurate ;)

#84 Posted by BeefiestName (82 posts) - - Show Bio

Kenshiro has beaten:

Enemies with unusual bodies that were supposed to have been immune to Hokuto Shinken

Enemies with precog powers, ability to read movements, etc.

Enemies who could use or counter Muso Tensei.

Enemies who were stronger than he was.

He also has at his disposal:

Every Hokuto Technique from its 2,000 year history, including those used by Toki and Raoh, plus everything from Hokuto Ryuken.

Various Nanto styles, including those practiced by the sacred fists (Shin, Rei, Souther, Juda, Shu)

Taizan Tenro Ken if he wants.

Gento Koken if he wants.

#85 Posted by Ratava (3372 posts) - - Show Bio

@kenshirofistofwrath said:

@ghostravage What do you think? You are one of the few, who is voting for Luffy.

@ghostravage said:

@ratava: He may not need it but he has it. And yeah, Zoro is by far the coolest character after Shanks and Kuma IMHO.

So Wrong

  1. Lucky Roo
  2. Shanks
  3. Rayleigh
  4. Zoro

:P


  1. Shanks
  2. Kuma
  3. Zoro
  4. Zephyr

its more accurate ;)

sadly you are both wrong

  1. Garp the Hero
  2. Shanks
  3. Zoro
  4. Kuma

:)

#86 Edited by Chibi_cute (4479 posts) - - Show Bio

@immortal777 said:

The fact that Luffy bleeds,eats,feels pain(nerves), sleeps, can be KOed and is a living breathing being means he has pressure points.

Thats right but i am with @ratava on this one, to use pressure points you have to apply pressure to the points (hence the name ^^) and how do you do this on Rubber? If you hit him, he doesn´t have the resistance from a normal body, his rubber would just flex together with the hit. Another problem is, you can´t just make him explode with such a technique as ratava already mentioned he expands himself all the time to gigantic sizes. In one tie-in chapter for Strong World, a df-user who can expand herself was inside Luffy and then used her power to grow to a giant and it hasn´t done any dmg to Luffy.

I love Kenshiro but here he would lose, Luffy is to fast combined with his Haki future telling and his Haki armor.

@ghostravage What do you think? You are one of the few, who is voting for Luffy.

@ghostravage said:

@ratava: He may not need it but he has it. And yeah, Zoro is by far the coolest character after Shanks and Kuma IMHO.

So Wrong

  1. Lucky Roo
  2. Shanks
  3. Rayleigh
  4. Zoro

:P

Kenshiro can even find pressure points on a tank and blown it up that its so ridiculous.Also has no counter against musoui tensei.

#87 Posted by Ratava (3372 posts) - - Show Bio

@kenshirofistofwrath said:

@immortal777 said:

The fact that Luffy bleeds,eats,feels pain(nerves), sleeps, can be KOed and is a living breathing being means he has pressure points.

Thats right but i am with @ratava on this one, to use pressure points you have to apply pressure to the points (hence the name ^^) and how do you do this on Rubber? If you hit him, he doesn´t have the resistance from a normal body, his rubber would just flex together with the hit. Another problem is, you can´t just make him explode with such a technique as ratava already mentioned he expands himself all the time to gigantic sizes. In one tie-in chapter for Strong World, a df-user who can expand herself was inside Luffy and then used her power to grow to a giant and it hasn´t done any dmg to Luffy.

I love Kenshiro but here he would lose, Luffy is to fast combined with his Haki future telling and his Haki armor.

@ghostravage What do you think? You are one of the few, who is voting for Luffy.

@ghostravage said:

@ratava: He may not need it but he has it. And yeah, Zoro is by far the coolest character after Shanks and Kuma IMHO.

So Wrong

  1. Lucky Roo
  2. Shanks
  3. Rayleigh
  4. Zoro

:P

Kenshiro can even find pressure points on a tank and blown it up that its so ridiculous.Also has no counter against musoui tensei.

Care to post scans? Iirc he hit the tank with multiple kicks till it malfunctions, so where does he exploit pressure points in that instance? What exactly is mosui tensei doing to Luffy which he can´t avoid with his speed + haki precog? scans please if it doenst bother you.

#88 Posted by Chibi_cute (4479 posts) - - Show Bio

@ratava: He was just hitting the surface of the tank but the tank explodes later.Kenshiro clearly did something to the tank deep inside.And you can't blow a tank just by hitting its outer suface.

#89 Edited by GhostRavage (8396 posts) - - Show Bio

@ratava said:

sadly you are both wrong

  1. Garp the Hero
  2. Shanks
  3. Zoro
  4. Kuma

:)

Pffftt! Do you wanna know where is Garp in that list?

  1. Shanks
  2. Kuma
  3. Zoro
  4. Zephyr
  5. Rob Lucci
  6. Mihawk
  7. Aokiji
  8. Luffy
  9. >Garp<
  10. Special Mention: Jinbe, Rayleigh and Borsalino.
#90 Edited by nickzambuto (12979 posts) - - Show Bio

@sandiego008: Ken is around Hypersonic, just like Luffy is, as Ken was able to catch and tie up invisibly fast whips in an instant, and another case of his speed feat was when he caught around 1109 punches a second from his biological brother Hyoh, and he would've caught 10,000 if Hyoh didn't get backstabbed. So it's possible that Kenshiro could dodge any of Luffy's attacks.

If Luffy was immune to physical attacks, why was Rob Lucci able to hurt him? Also, notice that Ken doesn't try to hit hard when he aims for pressure points. If you saw the movie version, you would know that Ken is strong enough to punch a building down and keep walking with a block falling over his head. This shows how strong and durable Kenshiro can be. If his pressure point attacks won't work on Luffy, like I said, Ken can use his ki blasts. And yes, he can definitely slice up Luffy.

Lucci used Shigan, the Finger Pistol, which is a penetrative attack, and Rankyaku, the Tempest Kick, a slicing attack against Luffy, and of course Rokuogan. None of his Rokushiki techniques were blunt force. That's how Lucci could hurt Luffy.

#91 Posted by Cooldes (3925 posts) - - Show Bio

You guys are crazy...

Gan Fall

Enel

Doflamingo

Aokiji(cool get it? xD)

Law

Sanji

Marco

Lucci

Everyoneelse

marine fodder

Foxy

#92 Posted by Ratava (3372 posts) - - Show Bio

@ratava: He was just hitting the surface of the tank but the tank explodes later.Kenshiro clearly did something to the tank deep inside.And you can't blow a tank just by hitting its outer suface.

Sure you can, you just have to damage it enough as Kenshiro is cleary doing with his kicks, there a no pressure points involved. And that feat isn´t even impressive, Luffy lets a PX explode with one casual hit

and again, a pp-technique won´t do much if you can´t put enough pressure on the p-points. Everytime Luffy gets hit by Bullets/Cannon Balls you see how far they are stretching through his body, there is no resistance to exploit/hit his pps because he is made of Rubber.

@ratava said:

sadly you are both wrong

  1. Garp the Hero
  2. Shanks
  3. Zoro
  4. Kuma

:)

Pffftt! Do you wanna know where is Garp in that list?

  1. Shanks
  2. Kuma
  3. Zoro
  4. Zephyr
  5. Rob Lucci
  6. Mihawk
  7. Aokiji
  8. Luffy
  9. >Garp<
  10. Special Mention: Jinbe, Rayleigh and Borsalino.
@cooldes said:

You guys are crazy...

Gan Fall

Enel

Doflamingo

Aokiji(cool get it? xD)

Law

Sanji

Marco

Lucci

Everyoneelse

marine fodder

Foxy

wwwhhhaaattttttt? you guys are insane, on one list Garp is below low lifes such as Z and Lucci and on the other list he doesn´t even appear, i think i have to flag you for trolling. ^^

Garp isn´t called THE HERO for nothing, he deserves the spot on the top. But just wait until OP is finished an Oda presents his spin-off "Adventures of the LEGENDARY Marine" then you all will bow down to him.

The Legend

#93 Posted by GhostRavage (8396 posts) - - Show Bio

@ratava said:

@ghostravage said:

@ratava said:

sadly you are both wrong

  1. Garp the Hero
  2. Shanks
  3. Zoro
  4. Kuma

:)

Pffftt! Do you wanna know where is Garp in that list?

  1. Shanks
  2. Kuma
  3. Zoro
  4. Zephyr
  5. Rob Lucci
  6. Mihawk
  7. Aokiji
  8. Luffy
  9. >Garp<
  10. Special Mention: Jinbe, Rayleigh and Borsalino.
@cooldes said:

You guys are crazy...

Gan Fall

Enel

Doflamingo

Aokiji(cool get it? xD)

Law

Sanji

Marco

Lucci

Everyoneelse

marine fodder

Foxy

wwwhhhaaattttttt? you guys are insane, on one list Garp is below low lifes such as Z and Lucci and on the other list he doesn´t even appear, i think i have to flag you for trolling. ^^

Garp isn´t called THE HERO for nothing, he deserves the spot on the top. But just wait until OP is finished an Oda presents his spin-off "Adventures of the LEGENDARY Marine" then you all will bow down to him.

The Legend

Nah, Garp has a title and all that but he hasn't shown the badassness of Lucci, Luffy, Zephyr, Shanks and Kuma... That's for sure, the only instance we have him fighting is in Marine Fort and he was pooping his pants... Maybe if he fought Akainu like he wanted... That would be another story.

But i gotta say, Garp is by far the coolest Marine that ever existed. I consider him above Admiral lvl too. The can guy topple mountains with his fists and totally deform continent shattering heads if you know what i mean.

BTW: ODA SAID HE WAS GOING TO DO A SPIN OFF WITH YOUNG GARP!!!??!?!?!? THAT'S SO F*CKING AWESOME! GOD! Gold D. Roger, Rayleigh, young shanks, young admirals, chinjao, zephyr... All those guys will appear! As main characters!

#94 Edited by Ratava (3372 posts) - - Show Bio

@ghostravage said:

Nah, Garp has a title and all that but he hasn't shown the badassness of Lucci, Luffy, Zephyr, Shanks and Kuma... That's for sure, the only instance we have him fighting is in Marine Fort and he was pooping his pants... Maybe if he fought Akainu like he wanted... That would be another story.

But i gotta say, Garp is by far the coolest Marine that ever existed. I consider him above Admiral lvl too. The can guy topple mountains with his fists and totally deform continent shattering heads if you know what i mean.

BTW: ODA SAID HE WAS GOING TO DO A SPIN OFF WITH YOUNG GARP!!!??!?!?!? THAT'S SO F*CKING AWESOME! GOD! Gold D. Roger, Rayleigh, young shanks, young admirals, chinjao, zephyr... All those guys will appear! As main characters!

sadly - till now, only in my dreams :( ^^

But you are right, Garp is the no1 marine and it would be awesome to see all the old legends in younger years :), but we still have a long way to go with OP, so iam sure we will see some flashback action from them.

#95 Posted by GhostRavage (8396 posts) - - Show Bio
#96 Edited by thelocust619 (2195 posts) - - Show Bio

Pressure point attacks arnt just plain blunt force, the concept is applying an appropriate amount of force to a certain area to cause a certain effect, whether its a circulatory system or the weak spot on a tank. Its more touching with ki than an actual strike with power. Kenshiro can see these points even on unconventional objects and even exploded a rubber-like fat guy immune to most conventional striking attacks. This guy wasn't on Luffy's level by any means, but its an example of pp attacks working with ease on a rubber-like body. Look at Luffy's gear 3....he definitely has a circulatory system that can be controlled. Even if you can't, kenshiro can see the weak spot and he'll use a pp attack on it and Luffy will die, if not by cardiac arrest then by exploding because he does have a limit to how far he can stretch, and if its enough pressure as I'm sure a pp strike from ken would create, they explosion may even expand faster than Luffy can stretch and thus rupture his body without even stretching it to its limits first....that's essentially the essence of how he can be cut in thefirst place. WWherever his weak spot is, Kenshiro already knows, and Luffy is already dead.

#97 Edited by Ratava (3372 posts) - - Show Bio

@ghostravage said:

@ratava: :(... You got me there.

sorry :(

@thelocust619 said:

Pressure point attacks arnt just plain blunt force, the concept is applying an appropriate amount of force to a certain area to cause a certain effect, whether its a circulatory system or the weak spot on a tank. Its more touching with ki than an actual strike with power. Kenshiro can see these points even on unconventional objects and even exploded a rubber-like fat guy immune to most conventional striking attacks. This guy wasn't on Luffy's level by any means, but its an example of pp attacks working with ease on a rubber-like body. Look at Luffy's gear 3....he definitely has a circulatory system that can be controlled. Even if you can't, kenshiro can see the weak spot and he'll use a pp attack on it and Luffy will die, if not by cardiac arrest then by exploding because he does have a limit to how far he can stretch, and if its enough pressure as I'm sure a pp strike from ken would create, they explosion may even expand faster than Luffy can stretch and thus rupture his body without even stretching it to its limits first....that's essentially the essence of how he can be cut in thefirst place. WWherever his weak spot is, Kenshiro already knows, and Luffy is already dead.

1. when did he miraculously find pp-points on someone or on objects? not that it is important to this fight - iam just interested.

2. "the concept is applying an appropriate amount of force", and how does kenshiro do that on a Rubber body? and no - the fat guy is not nearly on Luffys level so not comparable. Everytime Luffy gets hit by bullets/cannonballs we see how far they stretches within Luffy - so i doubt that kenshiro kann exploit his pp-points

3. Luffy won´t explode (if we assume Kenshiros pp-techniques will work in the first place), in gear3 he expands body parts to the size of a giant and in the tie-in chapter to Strong World there even was someone inside him who expanded his whole body to giant size - so no, there will be no explosion.

4. "the explosion may even expand faster than Luffy can stretch", i doubt that - when was "stretching speed" ever an issue for Luffy?

5. "Kenshiro already knows, and Luffy is already dead." nope

I guess a lot of people are forgetting Luffys precog + Speed and his Haki, Luffy could simply increase the defense of the Bodyparts - where Kenshiro tries to hit him - with Busoshoku Haki, or he avoids the attack in the first place. Kenshiro won´t be able to get through a Busoshoku covered body part.

#98 Posted by thelocust619 (2195 posts) - - Show Bio

@ratava:

1. Yea it kinda is important. He found pressure points on a tank and people..wow like do I really have to explain this to you? It shows kens way of attacking can be used unconvrntionally.....I'm gonna go through this point by point but really ur just making me repeat myself.

2. Fat guy is indeed comparable in concept but as I said nowhere near the degree that Luffy is. I brought him up to prove that ken would even be able to find these points on Luffy in the first place, and because of point 1 we know they do in fact work on things you wouldn't expect them to.

3.in gear 3 Luffy expands his body parts to ridiculous sizes by focusing air....freakin air....into a body part. This creates pressure....a big bubble of pressure. Gee, I sure hope ken can find a pressure point on this guy. I wonder. How he'll. Do it. Cough.

4.stretching speed is always an issue for Luffy every time he gets cut. How do u think he gets cut at all dude use ur head. A sharp object isn't magic, its a force applied on a small area of impact that splits an object if it cannot stretch or resist in time.In this sense its not very different from a blunt attack. People constantly overlook this about Luffy, cutting attacks arnt the only way to get cut. He can potentially be ruptured by a pp attack given ken can even blow a guy in half by pointing at him, If ken did an upwards karate chop and a downward one, that's essentially a pair of scissors n without khaki Luffy loses an arm. There's plenty of options on this case but as far as pp attacks, there's no reason to believe they won't work because Luffy is still susceptible to the forces that would cause a rupture, just very resistant but that's not the same as being immune. Also cardiac arrest is an option.

5. Yea. He is.

Speed plus precog have been countered already dude. U must have forgot...and covering a part of Luffy's body is pointless when ken can just phase through n attack it anyway. There's no reason that shouldn't work

#99 Edited by Ratava (3372 posts) - - Show Bio

@ratava:

1. Yea it kinda is important. He found pressure points on a tank and people..wow like do I really have to explain this to you? It shows kens way of attacking can be used unconvrntionally.....I'm gonna go through this point by point but really ur just making me repeat myself.

2. Fat guy is indeed comparable in concept but as I said nowhere near the degree that Luffy is. I brought him up to prove that ken would even be able to find these points on Luffy in the first place, and because of point 1 we know they do in fact work on things you wouldn't expect them to.

3.in gear 3 Luffy expands his body parts to ridiculous sizes by focusing air....freakin air....into a body part. This creates pressure....a big bubble of pressure. Gee, I sure hope ken can find a pressure point on this guy. I wonder. How he'll. Do it. Cough.

4.stretching speed is always an issue for Luffy every time he gets cut. How do u think he gets cut at all dude use ur head. A sharp object isn't magic, its a force applied on a small area of impact that splits an object if it cannot stretch or resist in time.In this sense its not very different from a blunt attack. People constantly overlook this about Luffy, cutting attacks arnt the only way to get cut. He can potentially be ruptured by a pp attack given ken can even blow a guy in half by pointing at him, If ken did an upwards karate chop and a downward one, that's essentially a pair of scissors n without khaki Luffy loses an arm. There's plenty of options on this case but as far as pp attacks, there's no reason to believe they won't work because Luffy is still susceptible to the forces that would cause a rupture, just very resistant but that's not the same as being immune. Also cardiac arrest is an option.

5. Yea. He is.

Speed plus precog have been countered already dude. U must have forgot...and covering a part of Luffy's body is pointless when ken can just phase through n attack it anyway. There's no reason that shouldn't work

1. He never found pressure points on a tank, he just kicks it, till it is malfunctioning and expldoes (and he still needed a lot of kicks - Luffy would have destroyed that thing in one hit) and it is totally unrelated to this battle. When found he pp on people? he knows where they are so why does he need to find them? don´t really get what you are meaning

2. No the fat guy is complete irrelevant and not comparable to Luffy, again there is nothing to find, Luffy is still a human so Kenshiro knows where the points are but he can´t exploit them due to Luffys Rubber body.

3. Still he can´t exploit the pressure points, see above

4. stop using rl-logic on a manga, and you are forgetting about Busoshoku, Luffy knows where Kenshiro is going to hit him and instead of avoiding he could simply increase the defense on that area and Ken won´t get through that.

5. not really - still haven´t seen how Kenshiro will put down Luffy and a simply "you are already dead" won´t help him

the problem is Luffy sees the attack coming, so no problem to avoid it

#100 Edited by Nelomaxwell (10368 posts) - - Show Bio

@ratava said:

@thelocust619 said:

@ratava:

1. Yea it kinda is important. He found pressure points on a tank and people..wow like do I really have to explain this to you? It shows kens way of attacking can be used unconvrntionally.....I'm gonna go through this point by point but really ur just making me repeat myself.

2. Fat guy is indeed comparable in concept but as I said nowhere near the degree that Luffy is. I brought him up to prove that ken would even be able to find these points on Luffy in the first place, and because of point 1 we know they do in fact work on things you wouldn't expect them to.

3.in gear 3 Luffy expands his body parts to ridiculous sizes by focusing air....freakin air....into a body part. This creates pressure....a big bubble of pressure. Gee, I sure hope ken can find a pressure point on this guy. I wonder. How he'll. Do it. Cough.

4.stretching speed is always an issue for Luffy every time he gets cut. How do u think he gets cut at all dude use ur head. A sharp object isn't magic, its a force applied on a small area of impact that splits an object if it cannot stretch or resist in time.In this sense its not very different from a blunt attack. People constantly overlook this about Luffy, cutting attacks arnt the only way to get cut. He can potentially be ruptured by a pp attack given ken can even blow a guy in half by pointing at him, If ken did an upwards karate chop and a downward one, that's essentially a pair of scissors n without khaki Luffy loses an arm. There's plenty of options on this case but as far as pp attacks, there's no reason to believe they won't work because Luffy is still susceptible to the forces that would cause a rupture, just very resistant but that's not the same as being immune. Also cardiac arrest is an option.

5. Yea. He is.

Speed plus precog have been countered already dude. U must have forgot...and covering a part of Luffy's body is pointless when ken can just phase through n attack it anyway. There's no reason that shouldn't work

1. He never found pressure points on a tank, he just kicks it, till it is malfunctioning and expldoes (and he still needed a lot of kicks - Luffy would have destroyed that thing in one hit) and it is totally unrelated to this battle. When found he pp on people? he knows where they are so why does he need to find them? don´t really get what you are meaning

2. No the fat guy is complete irrelevant and not comparable to Luffy, again there is nothing to find, Luffy is still a human so Kenshiro knows where the points are but he can´t exploit them due to Luffys Rubber body.

3. Still he can´t exploit the pressure points, see above

4. stop using rl-logic on a manga, and you are forgetting about Busoshoku, Luffy knows where Kenshiro is going to hit him and instead of avoiding he could simply increase the defense on that area and Ken won´t get through that.

5. not really - still haven´t seen how Kenshiro will put down Luffy and a simply "you are already dead" won´t help him

the problem is Luffy sees the attack coming, so no problem to avoid it

I already told you how he'd put him Down TK KI = off with his head. You never answered how he gets around that. Even when he beat that fish man fodder he had to stop to summon up gear 2. So let's not act like it's on deck all the time, cut that out. You still haven't told me how he get's around Ken's Battle aura field when other KI couldn't In HNK you can't punch through KI you have to blast through it. Again answer how does he avoid TK KI= head explode and don't say he doesn't use it often cause I've posted scans where EOS Ken explodes people and things from a distance repeatedly. I don't care how fast ya boy is or how hard he hits he get's caught with the Touki field and he dies. Plus that Hody Jones match was weak, Hody isn't anything better than Ken faces on a regular basis with all the mutants running around. Look at the Devil reverse fight, Look at the Glenn Fight, look at the Frankenstein fight in the Kouketsu arc. And Logia soloing HNK universe? That's real funny call me when they can avoid the Anryu Tenha which several characters that Ken has beaten posses. An ability I posted in the HNK vs Admirals fight which is stated by Ken in the fight to Warp reality and space. And No I won't post it again because you should've looked at it before. Also you're funny conveniently forgetting scans I posted to show how musuo tensei hurts a person who attacks its user. It's by command of the user, Luffy hits, he bleeds like a stuck pig. IMO Luffy is the heir to Kenshrio, good hearted, honest and winning in the face of unbeatable odds but he has a bit to go before he surpasses the master. Also for the record I don't think that either of them are faster than the other, I think they're about the same speed until Luffy surpasses him, which I assume he will. They just have different fighting styles, Luffy uses his movement in conjunction with his abilities. Ken's all about hand speed and reaction time.