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#51 Posted by i_like_swords (20428 posts) - - Show Bio

Kenshiro is faster than Luke Skywalker

He's not even close to Luke in speed. This fight isn't even debatable - Luke annihilates.

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#52 Posted by pikachumonster (3123 posts) - - Show Bio

Could go either way

#53 Posted by i_like_swords (20428 posts) - - Show Bio
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#54 Edited by CaptainMarvelThunder (1119 posts) - - Show Bio

@i_like_swords: Kenshiro is way faster than Luke Skywalker. For those that do not know much about Kenshiro here is a Respect Thread for him http://www.comicvine.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/kenshiro-respect-thread-644365/

From him catching over 1,000 attacks from a character at the same moment you can see that he is faster than Luke. In addition to this he has shown tremendous speed similar to that which is in Dragonball (like when he fought Joker), also he has killed over a hundred men in an instant using only his fists. Luke, or any jedi for that matter, has not shown speed on this level. The fastest we see Jedi movie was in Episode I when Kenobi and Jinn run from the destroyer droids (and arguably Yoda when he is fighting) and it is not nearly as fast as Kenshiro, and in addition to that it is travel speed and not combat speed. What Luke has going for him is his reflexes and force sense that helps him not get overwhelmed. Luke had trouble with Bobba Fett why would someone like Kenshiro be thought of as an easy oppenent when he could probably kill Bobba Fett without much difficulty?

#55 Edited by i_like_swords (20428 posts) - - Show Bio
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#56 Posted by Faymousinus (1275 posts) - - Show Bio

What are Kenshiro's feats?

#57 Posted by CaptainMarvelThunder (1119 posts) - - Show Bio

@i_like_swords:

I didn't see him catching over 1000 strikes from anyone simultaneously. At best I read something about a hyperbole-related kung fu move.

Luke fights near-relativistic speeds and has reacted and used his powers in nanoseconds. Next?

Good thing we aren't using live action Ewan Mcregor and Liam Neeson to judge the abilities of Expanded Universe Luke Skywalker. Seriously...

Luke has never, "had trouble" with Boba Fett. Especially not as Grandmaster Luke. That's just something you've conjured up by yourself. Have fun writing fan-fiction.

You can see him catching a guy's hand that was throwing over 1,000 strikes at a opponent on that page I sent containing his feats. Just scroll down a little and you should see it, it is one of the first pictures in black and white on the page. http://www.comicvine.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/kenshiro-respect-thread-644365/

Luke fights at fast near-relativistic speeds, but Kenshiro fights at superhuman speeds making him faster. It's a martial arts manga and tv sho so you are bound to get some amazing feats; its not hyperbole in the manga or tv show. You yourself have now pointed out that Luke fights at near relativistic speeds; Kenshiro does not (he fights at way faster speeds).

Expandee Univerese Luke Skywalker is not canon material. Only the movies are canon (and arguably the clone wars tv show by Lucas). Everything else is just glorified fan fiction.

Luke had trouble with Boba Fett in the movie Return of the Jedi as Boba Fett was able to bind him and Luke managed to get free due to another villain's mistake.

Also you wrote

"Based on the silly ATATATATATA video I saw of Kenshiro, Luke stomps." Does this mean that you have much information on Kenshiro and what he can do?

and

"Probably due to the fact he isn't an anime/manga character who makes up powers on the fly like Silver Age Superman and actually has a reasonable powerset. And at least he doesn't sound like a dodgy cassette player when he throws punches."

While you may not like the idea of a character being like Silver Age Superman, being like Silver Age Superman is a great thing to have going for oneself in a fight. It does not really matter because this is a fight and not which character we like more.

#58 Edited by ThatGuyWithHeadPhones (14064 posts) - - Show Bio

Skywalker is one word

#59 Edited by Eisenfauste (11120 posts) - - Show Bio

ThatGuyWithHeadPhones is in the house ;)

#60 Posted by Syndicate (414 posts) - - Show Bio

@captainmarvelthunder: The OP specifies this was EU Luke so yes Luke slaughter stomps. Your argument that only the movies and a few other thins are canon is true but since we're debating on the OP's rules we are in fact using the EU version who has reacted faster then light and adjusted black wholes.

#61 Posted by Ratava (5170 posts) - - Show Bio

Luke still lolstomps

and the kenshiro fanboys are funny


Luke fights at fast near-relativistic speeds, but Kenshiro fights at superhuman speeds making him faster.


While you may not like the idea of a character being like Silver Age Superman, being like Silver Age Superman is a great thing to have going for oneself in a fight. It does not really matter because this is a fight and not which character we like more.

the first one doesnt even make sense

#62 Posted by ShootingNova (20625 posts) - - Show Bio

Wait, what.....? Superhuman speeds > near-relativistic, automatically? I hav no idea where this came from.

#63 Posted by OverLordArhas (7935 posts) - - Show Bio

omae wa mo shindeiru

#64 Posted by DarthAznable (9743 posts) - - Show Bio

Could Luke get past Ken's Musou Tensei? Kenshiro is only clocked at...

  1. Leg Speed = Can move 100m in 9 seconds in steps
  2. Fist Speed = Throws 50 punches in three seconds while performing the Hundred Crack Fist
  3. Fist Speed = Throws 50 punches in three seconds while performing the Hundred Crack Fist

These speed stats are taken from the "Hokuto no Ken Special: All About the Man" magazine that came out in 1986 according to the wiki.

This is from the OVA which has him showing off some of those stats mentioned in the book.

Although his reaction speed isn't recorded in the book I'd say it's pretty fast. I couldn't give a calculation though. It seems near instantaneous.

I know there are some anime haters out there though so most of this will probably be disregarded anyways ;)

#65 Edited by Lord44 (1461 posts) - - Show Bio

#66 Posted by DarthAznable (9743 posts) - - Show Bio

@lord44: That movie was beyond horrendous.

#67 Posted by Lord44 (1461 posts) - - Show Bio
#68 Edited by ShootingNova (20625 posts) - - Show Bio

Could Luke get past Ken's Musou Tensei? Kenshiro is only clocked at...

  1. Leg Speed = Can move 100m in 9 seconds in steps

Luke has already ran kilometers in only a few seconds, and this occurred long, long before his prime.


  1. Fist Speed = Throws 50 punches in three seconds while performing the Hundred Crack Fist

Eh. Almost 17 punches per second. Grievous alone has struck twenty times per second seemingly without reaching his maximum velocity, and Luke could speedblitz him.

I'm not sure if simultaneously performing the Hundred Crack Fist is supposed to make this better or anything, though.

#69 Edited by DarthAznable (9743 posts) - - Show Bio

@shootingnova: That's why I said only clocked at. In terms of straight up travel speed, Ken isn't very fast at all. He's almost immobile since most of his techniques don't require much movement from one place to another. He can also increase his durability to extreme limits but it wouldn't block a lightsaber. How would Luke do against intangibility?

#70 Posted by ShootingNova (20625 posts) - - Show Bio

@darthaznable: Is he always intangible? If he isn't, Luke can speedblitz. Luke isn't powerless against intangible beings, either, though.

#71 Posted by DarthAznable (9743 posts) - - Show Bio

@shootingnova: I don't believe so. It's never specified how long it lasts. It works like..He can still hit you and you feel all his physical blows but you can't hurt him at all while also increasing his stats seemingly. Skip to :48

#72 Edited by Penderor (4465 posts) - - Show Bio

Luke stomps.

#74 Posted by DarthAznable (9743 posts) - - Show Bio

@ratava: Well that's the difference between the OVA and the original show/manga. That scene was in the original show. I don't really care though lol

#75 Posted by flashback0180 (2224 posts) - - Show Bio

ken murders that jadi

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#76 Posted by CaptainMarvelThunder (1119 posts) - - Show Bio

Could Luke get past Ken's Musou Tensei? Kenshiro is only clocked at...

  1. Leg Speed = Can move 100m in 9 seconds in steps
  2. Fist Speed = Throws 50 punches in three seconds while performing the Hundred Crack Fist
  3. Fist Speed = Throws 50 punches in three seconds while performing the Hundred Crack Fist

These speed stats are taken from the "Hokuto no Ken Special: All About the Man" magazine that came out in 1986 according to the wiki.

This is from the OVA which has him showing off some of those stats mentioned in the book.

Although his reaction speed isn't recorded in the book I'd say it's pretty fast. I couldn't give a calculation though. It seems near instantaneous.

I know there are some anime haters out there though so most of this will probably be disregarded anyways ;)

These are his speeds at one point in his life that he was clocked at; however, he becomes much stronger and faster as the series progresses.

#77 Posted by i_like_swords (20428 posts) - - Show Bio

This thread is just chalked full of stupid

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#78 Posted by CaptainMarvelThunder (1119 posts) - - Show Bio

@syndicate: All right thanks. I'm new here so where does it say that it is expanded universe Luke Skywalker? Or where is the OP?

#79 Posted by Syndicate (414 posts) - - Show Bio

@captainmarvelthunder: Well we automatically use the current version of a character in battles meaning GM Luke and the OP meaning the first post on the first page has a picture of GM Luke.

#80 Posted by CaptainMarvelThunder (1119 posts) - - Show Bio

@ratava: Yes I mad a mistake. I misread a Luke Skywalker supporter's quote as "near realistic speed." Meaning I thought he was saying that Luke's were only somewhat super (like Captain America's powers in the movies). The same person complained about Kenshiro being like Silver Age Superman so that helped me in making the mistake as well (I thought he was just pointing out how unrealistic Kenshiro was). But he wrote near relativistic speeds so I misunderstood. My bad.

#81 Posted by i_like_swords (20428 posts) - - Show Bio

@captainmarvelthunder: Near relativistic speed is a level of speed measurement approaching lightspeed. A simple google search could have sorted that out.

I didn't say Kenshiro was unrealistic. I said he was illogical. Tapping someones forehead, which in turn immobilizes just the bottom half of their body, but not their torso, arms or head, or their speech, and also then a few seconds later blows their head up, is just completely illogical and stupid, by any standard of fiction. Also, Kenshiro's art is weird and uninspired, and the voice acting and scripting is terrible. But those are just my views.

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#82 Posted by Geno (321 posts) - - Show Bio

Luke loses more than a hand here. While the lightsaber connecting could do immense damage, it's not really anything Ken hasn't faced before. He's fought against guys who had punches and kicks that could do just as much damage, and managed to evade anything fatal or mutilating. Ken's not the type to purposefully tank a blow when it could otherwise be avoided, unless it's to prove a point or defend someone. Luke's precog will also be limited against someone with Ken's speed, and I don't think tossing him around is going to do a whole lot (it never has before).

#83 Edited by Geno (321 posts) - - Show Bio

@i_like_swords said:

@captainmarvelthunder: Near relativistic speed is a level of speed measurement approaching lightspeed. A simple google search could have sorted that out.

I didn't say Kenshiro was unrealistic. I said he was illogical. Tapping someones forehead, which in turn immobilizes just the bottom half of their body, but not their torso, arms or head, or their speech, and also then a few seconds later blows their head up, is just completely illogical and stupid, by any standard of fiction. Also, Kenshiro's art is weird and uninspired, and the voice acting and scripting is terrible. But those are just my views.

If that is your argument, then it is not illogical. You can have a brain lesion at the precentral gyrus caused by a stroke near the midline, and you would suffer from lower limb paralysis/weakness. The rest of your body would be spared. The speech center of the brain is in a completely separate location on its own. As for exploding heads? That is no more ridiculous than using the Force to cause asphyxiation.

#84 Posted by i_like_swords (20428 posts) - - Show Bio

@geno: And tapping someones forehead can cause that? This has all been explained within the show? Alriiight then.

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#85 Posted by dondave (39685 posts) - - Show Bio

Luke

#86 Posted by CaptainMarvelThunder (1119 posts) - - Show Bio

@i_like_swords: Yes I I know. I just misread it as realistic.

He's just as illogical as the characters with powers in Star Wars and many of the super heroes in DC and Marvel. They are all using supernatural powers.

"Tapping someones forehead, which in turn immobilizes just the bottom half of their body, but not their torso, arms or head, or their speech, and also then a few seconds later blows their head up, is just completely illogical and stupid, by any standard of fiction." Technically he can do a lot more to someone if he is able to hit a pressure point than just make their head explode (that is just his usual method). He can make any part of their body explode, and can also force them to tell him information that he desires, as well as being able to heal and strengthen people when he hits pressure points. It depends on which pressure point he hits.

#87 Posted by Geno (321 posts) - - Show Bio

@i_like_swords: No, none of that is explained in the show, it's basic human anatomy. You have to suspend some disbelief to believe that it can be caused by certain pressure points. Are you saying every bit of technology and all the facets of the Force are explained in Star Wars? Because the movies certainly don't. Do they explain how magic works in Harry Potter or in the Lord of the Rings? Do they explain the molecular, chemical makeup of the spice central to Frank Herbert's Dune?

You can either argue these are all poorly produced fictional works because they don't fully explain things, or you can stop having such unrealistic expectations.

#88 Posted by i_like_swords (20428 posts) - - Show Bio

@geno said:

@i_like_swords: No, none of that is explained in the show, it's basic human anatomy. You have to suspend some disbelief to believe that it can be caused by certain pressure points. Are you saying every bit of technology and all the facets of the Force are explained in Star Wars? Because the movies certainly don't. Do they explain how magic works in Harry Potter or in the Lord of the Rings? Do they explain the molecular, chemical makeup of the spice central to Frank Herbert's Dune?

You can either argue these are all poorly produced fictional works because they don't fully explain things, or you can stop having such unrealistic expectations.

Uh huh "basic human anatomy" on the guy standing at like 10 foot tall. He just taps his head. That isn't a pressure point.

Funnily enough - yes, just about every bit of technology and Force powers are explained. Source books, weekly insiders, encyclopedias, databases - hell, even in the stories themselves. Obviously the movies alone can't explain everything like that. What are you expecting?

Try and point out one thing that isn't explained in Star Wars and I'll point you towards source material that can give you an answer for it.

Having a basic logic behind something is needed for it to make sense. Kenshiro doesn't have that. All I've seen thus far is you speculating.

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#89 Posted by Devil_Driver (260 posts) - - Show Bio

Does Luke have a force power counter for Muso Tensei or has he fought intangible foes before? If this is Grandmaster Luke it's hard to imagine that he hasn't come across someone with a similar ability.

#90 Posted by Syndicate (414 posts) - - Show Bio

Luke wins this easily.

#91 Posted by DarthAznable (9743 posts) - - Show Bio

@captainmarvelthunder: That's all from the original manga/anime run. I don't think he got an upgrade at all.