It's just a speed trope used in manga a lot, bleach LOVES using them for some reason. Not every manga has afterimages but that doesn't mean they're slow. Hell some rurouni kenshin characters can make afterimages but does that mean they're faster than One Piece characters? No, obviously not
Afterimages? No. Actual clones using sonido..
You can't make "clones" using speed, it was a speed trick using afterimages, I'd love to hear how he can make flesh and blood from moving fast
Welcome to the anime world:
Gallery
You can see blood every time..
And they were actual clones, more like a pseudo-self..
Morteins scan is just perfect for you, I actually forgot about when Luffy did that...
The difference between ordinary after images and a clone. Like luffy's gattling.. when enel caught them, they were at one place only. Unlike here. One is getting cut up and other's still there..
You really seem to like this feat, try and quantify how fast it is, or at least find someone else who did, because all this is sounding like is wow his clone technique is so cool he must be faster than One Piece characters. Luffy's bullet dodging feat from point blank range is easily quantifiable and puts him at mach 13 easy, he dodged AFTER it was fired too, it was in the list of calc/feat links I posted
You can't "quantify" something that breaks the laws of physics.. It doesn't matter the slightest what it sounds like you. Going mach 13 doesn't even help you be at two places at once. Five is far more than that..
It's just a speed trope used in manga a lot, bleach LOVES using them for some reason. Not every manga has afterimages but that doesn't mean they're slow. Hell some rurouni kenshin characters can make afterimages but does that mean they're faster than One Piece characters? No, obviously not
Afterimages? No. Actual clones using sonido..
You can't make "clones" using speed, it was a speed trick using afterimages, I'd love to hear how he can make flesh and blood from moving fast
Welcome to the anime world:
Gallery
You can see blood every time..
And they were actual clones, more like a pseudo-self..
Morteins scan is just perfect for you, I actually forgot about when Luffy did that...
The difference between ordinary after images and a clone. Like luffy's gattling.. when enel caught them, they were at one place only. Unlike here. One is getting cut up and other's still there..
You really seem to like this feat, try and quantify how fast it is, or at least find someone else who did, because all this is sounding like is wow his clone technique is so cool he must be faster than One Piece characters. Luffy's bullet dodging feat from point blank range is easily quantifiable and puts him at mach 13 easy, he dodged AFTER it was fired too, it was in the list of calc/feat links I posted
You can't "quantify" something that breaks the laws of physics.. It doesn't matter the slightest what it sounds like you. Going mach 13 doesn't even help you be at two places at once. Five is far more than that..
Just because you say it is right? Awesome. Luffy has a scan of him being in five places at once as well
You can't "quantify" something that breaks the laws of physics.. It doesn't matter the slightest what it sounds like you. Going mach 13 doesn't even help you be at two places at once. Five is far more than that..
Just because you say it is right? Awesome. Luffy has a scan of him being in five places at once as well
No. An object moving at mach 13 is still in one place at most. And the difference is afterimages and actual clones..
You can't "quantify" something that breaks the laws of physics.. It doesn't matter the slightest what it sounds like you. Going mach 13 doesn't even help you be at two places at once. Five is far more than that..
Just because you say it is right? Awesome. Luffy has a scan of him being in five places at once as well
No. An object moving at mach 13 is still in one place at most. And the difference is afterimages and actual clones..
You seem to be trying to say that making afterimages hints at how fast someone is, well, I've already explained that it's an anime trope, the speed clone thing was just a specialized technique only zommari had from what I understand, but you're saying Byakuya was faster, but Byakuya wasn't making speed clones correct? Making after images only means you're faster than the enemy could perceive you in that moment, you can make after images waving your hand in front of your computer screen really fast, does that make your hand hypersonic too? It's not really all that useful when trying to say how fast someone is, all you can say about it is well he's fast. If you think afterimages directly correlate to how fast someone is, how fast does it make them exactly? Go on, pull a number out of your ass I gotta see this
@YoungChief: "Afterimages"? Did you even read the comment? Those were actual clones, created by his sonido.
As I said, being in two places at once is physically impossible. Yet he was doing so with his speed. So you can't apply our physics to say "ohh, if he goes x m/s he'll be in two places at once"
Having afterimages doesn't mean you're faster than your enemy anyway. Soi fon was slower than aizen, or Goku was slower than nova shenron etc..
@YoungChief: "Afterimages"? Did you even read the comment? Those were actual clones, created by his sonido.
As I said, being in two places at once is physically impossible. Yet he was doing so with his speed. So you can't apply our physics to say "ohh, if he goes x m/s he'll be in two places at once"
Having afterimages doesn't mean you're faster than your enemy anyway. Soi fon was slower than aizen, or Goku was slower than nova shenron etc..
I said faster than the enemy could perceive in that moment, I never said it made someone faster, in bleach I get the feeling though that it's used simply to say that the characters are fast so i agree with you there that Aizen should have been able to see her. So, what are you trying to say prince aragorn? That Zommari broke the laws of physics and thus he must be fast as the flash or something? Because we both know that's wrong, not only that but Zommari isn't in this fight now is he? I wanted you to prove that byakuya is even as fast as Luffy, you have yet to do so, all you've been doing is saying how fast Zommari is and omg he broke the laws of physics and since Byakuya beat a guy who broke the laws of physics he must be faster. Well no, that's not really how it works exactly...Zommari was the only one who had it, and even if he was breaking the laws of physics as you keep saying, how fast does that make him? Massively faster than light or something? Is that what you're driving at here because I don't understand, I really hope that's not what you're trying to say.
@YoungChief: Actually, I've watched some one piece episodes again, and the gap between bleach speeds and them isn't as large as I thought. Specially after luffy goes gear 2. Personally I always thought the Hst were on very comparable level, but bleach, even though it's my third favourite, generally represents power better than the other two. (Actually Being in many places at once, breaking a space-time warping spell by brute force, tearing pocket dimensions apart by ban release and what not). Maybe I'm being a little biased here,(seems to be the case) I'll go and check back on the two and get back later. sounds ok? Otherwise we'll just keep bickering without making any sense.
@YoungChief: Actually, I've been watched some one piece episodes again, and the gap between bleach speeds and them isn't as large as I thought. Specially after luffy goes gear 2. Personally I always thought the Hst were on very comparable level, but bleach, even though it's my third favourite, generally represents power better than the other two. (Actually Being in many places at once, breaking a space-time warping spell by brute force, tearing pocket dimensions apart by ban release and what not). Maybe I'm being a little biased here,(seems to be the case) I'll go and check back on the two and get back later. sounds ok? Otherwise we'll just keep bickering without making any sense.
Alrighty then. Sounds fine to me. Personally, bleach and naruto are tying for me right now just below toriko/one piece, hopefully we get to see ichigo using some quincy stuff and not his, quite frankly, boring zanpakutou (1 attack lol)
I haven't watch any episode of OP yet, but from what I have seen and read, I would bet my money on Kenpachi, even without his recent upgrade.
Firstly, everyone forgot that Kenpachi have great reiatsu, what work him as some shield too. It was in a filler IIRC but Mayuri's poison cloud which can go through even skin and hierro, couldn't reach Kenpachi thanks to his reiastu. Filler, but this represent it well. A distance attack would slow down a little, the one-shot is pretty improbably consider that he is very durable as well.
About the fight with Nnoitora: Nnoitora cut through a big stone pillar easily, he went all out against Kenpachi, and wounded him, but didn't cause him deadly wounds, didn't cut him half didn't one shot him. After that, against Yammy, the physically strongest espada, punched him away, about 50-100m, Kenpachi barely felt it. Then he got punched in close range several times, and barely gave a sh1t about it. This was durability. Speed:
He and Byakuya dodged Yammy's cero from very close range. I don't know how fast was it, but consider that he is the strongest espada, it should have pretty very fast.
Keeping up with Unohana, who can be powerscaled from Shunsui's speed, can also give him a decent boost in speed compared to the rest he has shown.
lets not speculate
@mypasswordis1234:
I haven't watch any episode of OP yet
Start reading then
It was in a filler IIRC but Mayuri's poison cloud which can go through even skin and hierro, couldn't reach Kenpachi thanks to his reiastu. Filler, but this represent it well.
That don't count, when presented with manga and anime evidence manga takes priority
A distance attack would slow down a little, the one-shot is pretty improbably consider that he is very durable as well.
Depending range, and it makes sense considering the things that Mihawk has cut.
About the fight with Nnoitora: Nnoitora cut through a big stone pillar easily, he went all out against Kenpachi, and wounded him, but didn't cause him deadly wounds, didn't cut him half didn't one shot him.
The blood loss and beatdown caused kenny to move into 'two hands' , kenny did that earlier (and just a pillar of stone)
After that, against Yammy, the physically strongest espada, punched him away, about 50-100m, Kenpachi barely felt it. Then he got punched in close range several times, and barely gave a sh1t about it.
Manga or anime?
He and Byakuya dodged Yammy's cero from very close range. I don't know how fast was it, but consider that he is the strongest espada, it should have pretty very fast.
It was in a filler IIRC but Mayuri's poison cloud which can go through even skin and hierro, couldn't reach Kenpachi thanks to his reiastu. Filler, but this represent it well.
1.That don't count, when presented with manga and anime evidence manga takes priority
A distance attack would slow down a little, the one-shot is pretty improbably consider that he is very durable as well.
2.Depending range, and it makes sense considering the things that Mihawk has cut.
About the fight with Nnoitora: Nnoitora cut through a big stone pillar easily, he went all out against Kenpachi, and wounded him, but didn't cause him deadly wounds, didn't cut him half didn't one shot him.
3.The blood loss and beatdown caused kenny to move into 'two hands' , kenny did that earlier (and just a pillar of stone)
After that, against Yammy, the physically strongest espada, punched him away, about 50-100m, Kenpachi barely felt it. Then he got punched in close range several times, and barely gave a sh1t about it.
4. Manga or anime?
He and Byakuya dodged Yammy's cero from very close range. I don't know how fast was it, but consider that he is the strongest espada, it should have pretty very fast.
5.While it charges
1. I know, I just said, it represent this ability well. Just an example.
2. If it's close range Kenpachi could counter it, in a "sword to sword" fight. Also how is that possible he didn't one shot Luffy? And those blue light effects, was an anime adding or he has some ability similar to Getsuga Tenshou? Because I saw that feat in manga and didn't notice it.
3. I know, so? My point was, he couldn't one shot him, from a guy who easily cut a thick stone pillar to half. Kenpachi started to use(i.e. slice once with) two hands because he already fought against six hands and wounded a lot of times and eventually his neck wounded too.
Also, I forgot to add, the stone pillar cut feat from Nnoitora was when he has two hands yet, so with the same weapon he did strike at Kenpachi and he blocked it with one bare hand easily.
4. Both.
5. Don't lowball them pls. Both in anime and manga, Yammy shot toward them and it look like he shot them successfully, this wasn't an aim dodge.
1. I know, I just said, it represent this ability well. Just an example.
No probs, just don't rely on that
2. If it's close range Kenpachi could counter it, in a "sword to sword" fight. Also how is that possible he didn't one shot Luffy? And those blue light effects, was an anime adding or he has some ability similar to Getsuga Tenshou? Because I saw that feat in manga and didn't notice it.
Couldn't his durability has not shown much that can tank Mihawk's attack, the building slash in the early arc (hollow insides)
In the manga that was a casual (no name/no move swing)
CoO tells luffy to dodge so that he does not die
3. I know, so? My point was, he couldn't one shot him, from a guy who easily cut a thick stone pillar to half. Kenpachi started to use(i.e. slice once with) two hands because he already fought against six hands and wounded a lot of times and eventually his neck wounded too. Also, I forgot to add, the stone pillar cut feat from Nnoitora was when he has two hands yet, so with the same weapon he did strike at Kenpachi and he blocked it with one bare hand easily.
Mihawk can casually cut Kuzan's ice (Tsunami and more) which is harder than steel, that zoro thing is special considering that he can cut steel at that point in the manga (casually)
4. Both.
I need manga showing then
5. Don't lowball them pls. Both in anime and manga, Yammy shot toward them and it look like he shot them successfully, this wasn't an aim dodge.
1. I know, I just said, it represent this ability well. Just an example.
No probs, just don't rely on that
2. If it's close range Kenpachi could counter it, in a "sword to sword" fight. Also how is that possible he didn't one shot Luffy? And those blue light effects, was an anime adding or he has some ability similar to Getsuga Tenshou? Because I saw that feat in manga and didn't notice it.
Couldn't his durability has not shown much that can tank Mihawk's attack, the building slash in the early arc (hollow insides)
In the manga that was a casual (no name/no move swing)
CoO tells luffy to dodge so that he does not die
3. I know, so? My point was, he couldn't one shot him, from a guy who easily cut a thick stone pillar to half. Kenpachi started to use(i.e. slice once with) two hands because he already fought against six hands and wounded a lot of times and eventually his neck wounded too. Also, I forgot to add, the stone pillar cut feat from Nnoitora was when he has two hands yet, so with the same weapon he did strike at Kenpachi and he blocked it with one bare hand easily.
Mihawk can casually cut Kuzan's ice (Tsunami and more) which is harder than steel, that zoro thing is special considering that he can cut steel at that point in the manga (casually)
4. Both.
I need manga showing then
5. Don't lowball them pls. Both in anime and manga, Yammy shot toward them and it look like he shot them successfully, this wasn't an aim dodge.
Its an aimdodge in the manga, they noticed and both of them can move
I don't undermine
2. But his swing wont slice anything if it's countered by Kenpachi's zanpakto. And I could even say that Kenpachi's sword would cut through Mihawk's sword.
But Luffy couldn't dodge, he tried to run away, Mihawk sliced and Luffy just screamed and fell. That's what I don't understand.
And it seems you don't get my point. Nnoitora was way stronger than just a guy who can cut through stone pillar. We don't know what else could he cut through, but I mentioned that because that is a solid feat without power scaling.
With a little power scaling, he was around as strong as Kenpachi, who had better truly casual slicing feats, where he just swinging his arm... and Kenpachi withstand slices like that without being cut half or wounded deadly. We wont know how durable exactly Kenpachi, because this. Also the hierro meaning literally "iron". And there are softer and harder hierros among arrancars. This is meaning that, an average arrancar who aren't even in top 10, are at least as durable as iron. Nnoitora has the hardest hierro.
3. Still, a stone harder than regular ice.
And what suggest that anyway that iceberg was harder than steel? Kuzan didn't freeze that for sword fighting...
5. They saw it, but nothing suggest that they started running after they just saw it charge. If they would have start run immediately, Yammy wouldn't shot the cero. Both the manga and anime give us that feeling they got shot by that cero.
@mypasswordis1234: Try reading OP (from the start)
2. But his swing wont slice anything if it's countered by Kenpachi's zanpakto. And I could even say that Kenpachi's sword would cut through Mihawk's sword.
Strong no, unless kenpachi suddenly can pull forcefields out of his ass. Mihawk has shown to cut things more durable than kenny who can get hurt by 'steel hard dudes'
But Luffy couldn't dodge, he tried to run away, Mihawk sliced and Luffy just screamed and fell. That's what I don't understand. And it seems you don't get my point. Nnoitora was way stronger than just a guy who can cut through stone pillar. We don't know what else could he cut through, but I mentioned that because that is a solid feat without power scaling. With a little power scaling, he was around as strong as Kenpachi, who had better truly casual slicing feats, where he just swinging his arm... and Kenpachi withstand slices like that without being cut half or wounded deadly. We wont know how durable exactly Kenpachi, because this. Also the hierro meaning literally "iron". And there are softer and harder hierros among arrancars. This is meaning that, an average arrancar who aren't even in top 10, are at least as durable as iron. Nnoitora has the hardest hierro.
It is called haki and it is precog which mihawk also has, he sees the 'bad; future and dodges to prevent injury. Stone pillar? it was a hollow building and the second one was a piece from a falling building.
powerscaling = speculation, none of that please.
Nope, claims to be hardest but not shown as kenny easily damages him
3. Still, a stone harder than regular ice. And what suggest that anyway that iceberg was harder than steel? Kuzan didn't freeze that for sword fighting...
Nope, he intented to kill robin with the Ice saber, his ice is harder than steel as it tanks cannon fire and artillery in marineford arc. Said stone is regular
where did you get 100+ ton from? need calcs here , with the dust it can be assumed that he dodges
5. They saw it, but nothing suggest that they started running after they just saw it charge. If they would have start run immediately, Yammy wouldn't shot the cero. Both the manga and anime give us that feeling they got shot by that cero.
They saw and they have shunpo, byakky does (nope, no damage from said cero)
Aokiji can freeze miles upon miles of ocean that stay frozen for days, near instantly freeze tidal waves and create ice weapons that can withstand hits rrom high tiers in One Piece. His ice makes steel look like rice paper.
@mypasswordis1234: Try reading OP (from the start)
2. But his swing wont slice anything if it's countered by Kenpachi's zanpakto. And I could even say that Kenpachi's sword would cut through Mihawk's sword.
Strong no, unless kenpachi suddenly can pull forcefields out of his ass. Mihawk has shown to cut things more durable than kenny who can get hurt by 'steel hard dudes'
But Luffy couldn't dodge, he tried to run away, Mihawk sliced and Luffy just screamed and fell. That's what I don't understand. And it seems you don't get my point. Nnoitora was way stronger than just a guy who can cut through stone pillar. We don't know what else could he cut through, but I mentioned that because that is a solid feat without power scaling. With a little power scaling, he was around as strong as Kenpachi, who had better truly casual slicing feats, where he just swinging his arm... and Kenpachi withstand slices like that without being cut half or wounded deadly. We wont know how durable exactly Kenpachi, because this. Also the hierro meaning literally "iron". And there are softer and harder hierros among arrancars. This is meaning that, an average arrancar who aren't even in top 10, are at least as durable as iron. Nnoitora has the hardest hierro.
It is called haki and it is precog which mihawk also has, he sees the 'bad; future and dodges to prevent injury. Stone pillar? it was a hollow building and the second one was a piece from a falling building.
powerscaling = speculation, none of that please.
Nope, claims to be hardest but not shown as kenny easily damages him
3. Still, a stone harder than regular ice. And what suggest that anyway that iceberg was harder than steel? Kuzan didn't freeze that for sword fighting...
Nope, he intented to kill robin with the Ice saber, his ice is harder than steel as it tanks cannon fire and artillery in marineford arc. Said stone is regular
where did you get 100+ ton from? need calcs here , with the dust it can be assumed that he dodges
5. They saw it, but nothing suggest that they started running after they just saw it charge. If they would have start run immediately, Yammy wouldn't shot the cero. Both the manga and anime give us that feeling they got shot by that cero.
They saw and they have shunpo, byakky does (nope, no damage from said cero)
Is it that hard to imagine? If they clash their sword, then the top of the sword wont cross their body. Impossible to make distance attack like that.
.
In that scene, he wasn't had any vision, just simply happened.
Not so easily, and he has the best durability feats among espadas, so the claim most probably true.
.
I talked about the iceberg. He just frost it. Didn't have any special intend to make it harder than regular iceberg. So why everyone say it must be harder than steel.
.
100+ton? Nowhere, I said m as meter. And I just estimated it. He could fly much further if the pillar didn't stop him.
... I stop answering after this, you like Mihawk too much to debate objectively enough.
@mypasswordis1234: Try reading OP (from the start)
2. But his swing wont slice anything if it's countered by Kenpachi's zanpakto. And I could even say that Kenpachi's sword would cut through Mihawk's sword.
Strong no, unless kenpachi suddenly can pull forcefields out of his ass. Mihawk has shown to cut things more durable than kenny who can get hurt by 'steel hard dudes'
The truth is that Ken will soon get a massive power up( and if novel Ken is canon he already roflstomps)
Whyle mihawk is featless for durability and speed, for all we know he could be a glass cannon.
Atm i'd give to ken, but i know that we'll soon have complete feats for mihawk and things could change then, just as ken's bankai could easily give him the power to solo OP if he follows ichigo's power level.
@doctor_fate500: Wtf did he do though? What is that? A giant sheath? Is it a stupid head-sword? How the hell does that work, we don't know what he even did yet lol wait till next week
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