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#1 Posted by Goku1fan (1263 posts) - - Show Bio

Ken

Liu Kang

- No prep

- No weapons

- No outside help

- Bloodlust

- Kang can go Dragon if needed

- Battle here

#2 Posted by Tim_Drake4444 (1070 posts) - - Show Bio

Good match, though I give Kang the edge

#3 Posted by King Saturn (223796 posts) - - Show Bio
I think Ken would beat Liu Kang...
#4 Posted by Boneawl (113 posts) - - Show Bio

I give it to Ken.

#5 Posted by Boobster (1608 posts) - - Show Bio

Tough call. They both have projectiles, Ken has Shoryuken and Tatsumaki, while Liu has Bicycle Kick and Flying Kick. I guess it comes to who is faster in combat, I can't tell cause I don't know how fast is Ken canonically.

#6 Posted by Goku1fan (1263 posts) - - Show Bio

This is good right?

#7 Posted by jeanroygrant (20191 posts) - - Show Bio

@King Saturn said:

I think Ken would beat Liu Kang...
#8 Edited by onilordasmodeus (2529 posts) - - Show Bio

Kang beats ken easy.

Ken is skilled and, as far as I know, has won just about every national and international tournament he's entered. But the mk scene is a different beast all together. All the tourneys ken won, kang could have won...and probably by a wider margin. Kang has been trained by some of the greatest masters on earth, arguably so was ken. But kang's training was taken to the next level when he was also trained by bo rai cho, arguably the greatest teacher throughout earth and the realms beyond. Liu actually surpassed him in mortal kombat deception. But I wanna focus on mk9 liu. Kang also trained with, and was mentored by, raiden, a God of untold wisdom and experience. Kang in mk1, and mk9, is ridiculously honed and focused. Hence taking down god-like sorcerers such as shang and quan, and defeating monsters like goro...undefeated monsters mind you. Not to mention shao kahn, the conquerer of worlds.

Ken is good, really good, I might put him on cage's level (that would be a good fight), but liu is out of his league.

#9 Posted by Boneawl (113 posts) - - Show Bio

@onilordasmodeus:

All points made does not make a case that Liu is better than Ken. All your point just address howLiu is good in his realm. To gauge level of skill between the two based on what you mention shows nothing really credible to say Liu wins, especially with ease. Because Bo or Raiden taught Liu, doesn't mean anything other than the fact he had good teachers and what they teach him can only go as far as how he can use their teachings.

Point is, there's no solid proof you offer to make such a claim.

To make a proper claim of who's more skilled, show canon feats.

#10 Posted by Goku1fan (1263 posts) - - Show Bio

@onilordasmodeus said:

Kang beats ken easy.

Ken is skilled and, as far as I know, has won just about every national and international tournament he's entered. But the mk scene is a different beast all together.

All the tourneys ken won, kang could have won...and probably by a wider margin.

Kang has been trained by some of the greatest masters on earth, arguably so was ken. But kang was trained by bo rai cho, arguably the greatest teacher throughout earth and the realms beyond. Liu actually surpassed him in mortal kombat deception. But I wanna focus on mk9 liu.

Kang also trained with, and was mentored by, raiden, a God of untold wisdom and experience.

Kang in mk1, and mk9, is ridiculously honed and focused. Hence taking down god-like sorcerers such as shang and quan, and defeating monsters like goro...undefeated monsters mind you. Not to mention shao kahn, the conquerer of worlds.

Ken is good, really good, I might put him on cafe's level (that would be a good fight), but liu is out of his league.

I wouldn't say out of his league

#11 Posted by onilordasmodeus (2529 posts) - - Show Bio

@Boneawl: I see what you are saying but... OK.

Lets just lay a few commonalities down. Both are from earth, both are all human, both are very skilled and gifted fighters, and both (we'll say) are in the prime of their lives. For the sake of this lets even merge the SF and MK universes, meaning a a hadouken is equal to a fireball. Lets even go farther and set a power level bar for the villains...Shang tsung equals M.Bison. Bison's Psyco drive equals a Soulnado for Shang.

Starting with Ken, he has entered many tournaments in his fighting career, but none are worthy to speak of except the actual street fighter tourneys. Those are where he fights other warriors on his level. While ken is definitely one of the stronger fighters, he is not on bison's level, akuma's level, RYU's level (he doesn't have the potential that ryu has), therefore he is strong, he is skilled, but he lacks the x-factor that makes him a monster. Also, Ken is a Fighter, a family man and business man rolled into one. Just as Ryu struggles with the Shun Goku Satsu, Ken struggles with these things.

Liu Kang on the other hand is a warrior through and through. He has more in common with ryu than ken. Both Ryu and Liu live to fight, both will lay it all on the line when the time comes, and both have proven that they can come through in a pinch. Ken can and has shown these qualities as well but in vastly different situations and circumstances. Both Ryu and Liu are "special," hence the reason they are the main protagonists of there games. Anyway, the major difference between Ryu and Liu is Ryu is still a slave to the power within him. While he's shown flashes of greatness, he is still far away from inner peace and tranquility, which he needs to master the power within him. I was doing some research on Ryu and I read that his master, Gouken, used some sort of "spell" to put the SGS at ease in Ryu (The Power of Nothingness). I say to you by the end of MK3 Liu has mastered this inner peace and because of it is the better fighter.

Using the common laws I put up top, Liu defeated Goro (Vega, Balrog, Sagat, etc.) and Shang Tsung (M. Bison) in MK1 AND he did he did it again in MK2 when Tsung got a slight upgrade (M. bison in SF2). There is no equivalent in SF for Shao kahn (maybe final Bison, maybe Shin Akuma), but regardless...Ken couldn't beat those guys, Liu Kang can and has.

Liu vs Ken...

Liu Kang wins easily.

#12 Posted by onilordasmodeus (2529 posts) - - Show Bio

@Goku1fan: hosestly, saying ken can beat liu is like saying ken beats Jin or kazuya from tekken. Ken is really really good, but those guys, like Liu, Like Ryu, like bison, like akuma, are monsters. Ken can't hang.

oh, and I meant to put that ken is on johnny cage's level. Cage is exceptional just like Ken, but he is out classed in certain fights.

#13 Posted by tg1982 (2715 posts) - - Show Bio

I think Ken can win this.

#14 Posted by Boneawl (113 posts) - - Show Bio

I see what you are saying but... OK.

Lets just lay a few commonalities down. Both are from earth, both are all human, both are very skilled and gifted fighters, and both (we'll say) are in the prime of their lives. For the sake of this lets even merge the SF and MK universes, meaning a a hadouken is equal to a fireball. Lets even go farther and set a power level bar for the villains...Shangfighters in DC tsung equals M.Bison. Bison's Psyco drive equals a Soulnado for Shang

This is laughable. Doesn't matter hat they have in common, serves no purpose to who is better. The idea of equalizing two different attacks like the Hadouken and fireball is just ridiculous. Their elemental properties are completely different and both have a different level of destruction. These characters are different, there is no sense is doing such a thing you have done here. Come back with feats to support your case, other wise you're speaking purely none sense

Starting with Ken, he has entered many tournaments in his fighting career, but none are worthy to speak of except the actual street fighter tourneys. Those are where he fights other warriors on his level. While ken is definitely one of the stronger fighters, he is not on bison's level, akuma's level, RYU's level (he doesn't have the potential that ryu has), therefore he is strong, he is skilled, but he lacks the x-factor that makes him a monster. Also, Ken is a Fighter, a family man and business man rolled into one. Just as Ryu struggles with the Shun Goku Satsu, Ken struggles with these things.

Ken is actually on Ryu's level, Ryu even thinks Ken is his equal, hence why he considers them rivals and best friends. Ken has the potential, the only difference is how they utilize their styles of combat. Ken, doesn't have the potential? Wrong again. How Ken lives his life doesn't say anything. I could very well say Wolverine for most of his life is filled with combat and has mastered over several fighting styles that just seem inhuman. Yet... he gets trumped by Daredevil, Iron fist, etc. Bruce Wayne is a billionaire, a businessman, a family man if you look at all the times he took in others under his own house hold (Dick ,Tim, Damien), yet he's still one of the best fighters in DC. Your logic of why Ken falls behind is just speculation under your own theory, which is highly WRONG.

Oh and it's... Satsui no Hadou, no Shun Goku Satsu... Your knowledge of SF is becoming incredible obvious you don't have a clue what you're talking about... Oh and at the end of SF 4, Ryu is taught by Gouken the style of Mu, which nullifies the Satsui no Hadou with in Ryu.

Liu Kang on the other hand is a warrior through and through. He has more in common with ryu than ken. Both Ryu and Liu live to fight, both will lay it all on the line when the time comes, and both have proven that they can come through in a pinch. Ken can and has shown these qualities as well but in vastly different situations and circumstances. Both Ryu and Liu are "special," hence the reason they are the main protagonists of there games. Anyway, the major difference between Ryu and Liu is Ryu is still a slave to the power within him. While he's shown flashes of greatness, he is still far away from inner peace and tranquility, which he needs to master the power within him. I was doing some research on Ryu and I read that his master, Gouken, used some sort of "spell" to put the SGS at ease in Ryu (The Power of Nothingness). I say to you by the end of MK3 Liu has mastered this inner peace and because of it is the better fighter.

The only thing Liu has in common with Ken is being a protagonist in his own series, nothing else. Ken doesn't live to fight, hmmm... guess that's why he entered all those tournaments from reputable one's to under ground one's and spars Ryu when ever he can get a chance. Nope, Ken sure doesn't live to fight. Sarcasm, if you can't tell. Ryu isn't a slave to any power, it's only his determination like Gouki's to gain perfection and complete power, why he's susceptible to being corrupted. If he was a slave, he would be struggling day in and day out with it and wouldn't even be able to even fight with a stable mind at any given time. Your comparisons again are irrelevant and hold nothing. Feats, give me feats of Liu being so much better than he can easily beat Ken. Other wise, you're blowing up Liu and belittling Ken.

Using the common laws I put up top, Liu defeated Goro (Vega, Balrog, Sagat, etc.) and Shang Tsung (M. Bison) in MK1 AND he did he did it again in MK2 when Tsung got a slight upgrade (M. bison in SF2). There is no equivalent in SF for Shao kahn (maybe final Bison, maybe Shin Akuma), but regardless...Ken couldn't beat those guys, Liu Kang can and has.

"Using the common laws I put up top." The keyword to your argument... "I put up". Everything you've said is merely an opinion, not fact. You still have no case and blowing a lot of smoke. Your opinion of Ken is highly wrong.

.Liu vs Ken...

Liu Kang wins easily.

So far you've been belitting Ken, and blowing up Liu, with no actual evidence to support your case. If anything, all I see is fanboyism for Liu here and belittling Ken.

Now here are my points... Ken isn't that good? Go back to Street Fighter series and learn a little about Ken. Ken is considered to be the best American martial artist in Street Fighter, that would of course eliminate the idea Guile is even rival to him or any other American in Street Fighter. Ken has also defeated Ryu in Street Fighter Alpha, and you were saying that Ken doesn't have the potential? They are considered equals with a different use of their fighting styles.

#15 Posted by onilordasmodeus (2529 posts) - - Show Bio

@Boneawl: Thank you for responding. And just for the record, my knowledge of SF is really lacking compared to MK, but anyway.

This is laughable. Doesn't matter hat they have in common, serves no purpose to who is better. The idea of equalizing two different attacks like the Hadouken and fireball is just ridiculous. Their elemental properties are completely different and both have a different level of destruction. These characters are different, there is no sense is doing such a thing you have done here. Come back with feats to support your case, other wise you're speaking purely none sense.

Why are they so different. they are both Ki based attacks aren't they? What I'm proposing is that they are the same just as a hadouken is the same as a sonic boom. they exist, they are projectiles, and both characteres use them to deal damage from a far. If you really want to debate power though, I guess that would be kinda hard. In SF animes, Ki blasts can create great explosions and destructive force. Conversely when they hit a person, they seem like a concussive force similar to a punch, or kick, like cyclops' optic blasts. In MK projectiles are the same. in fights they are like puches or kicks (concusive blasts) but in mk projectiles have also be shown to kill. See Liu kangs fireball fatality (MK3, mk4, MK6) or shang's fireball in mk9 where he blew up a helecoptor.

They may not be the exact same but they are similar.

Ken is actually on Ryu's level, Ryu even thinks Ken is his equal, hence why he considers them rivals and best friends. Ken has the potential, the only difference is how they utilize their styles of combat. Ken, doesn't have the potential? Wrong again. How Ken lives his life doesn't say anything. I could very well say Wolverine for most of his life is filled with combat and has mastered over several fighting styles that just seem inhuman. Yet... he gets trumped by Daredevil, Iron fist, etc. Bruce Wayne is a billionaire, a businessman, a family man if you look at all the times he took in others under his own house hold (Dick ,Tim, Damien), yet he's still one of the best fighters in DC. Your logic of why Ken falls behind is just speculation under your own theory, which is highly WRONG.

Oh and it's... Satsui no Hadou, no Shun Goku Satsu... Your knowledge of SF is becoming incredible obvious you don't have a clue what you're talking about... Oh and at the end of SF 4, Ryu is taught by Gouken the style of Mu, which nullifies the Satsui no Hadou with in Ryu.

First, to say that ryu SAYS that ken is his equal is kinda flawed. I rather stick to what the character has actually done and judge and compared from that. Feats right?

Second, some of your example are off. You really can't compare wolverine or batman to ken. Wolve and Bats are crazy...literally crazy. Wolve can't remember most of his life due to psycological trauma he suffered. He is hella skilled but fights on instinct berserker mode a lot of the time. And bats, to say he a family man is reaching. To even say he's a business man is reaching. Bruce found orphans and took them out onto the streets with him. he trained them or should I say they trained with him. Bruce is cold, the opposite of Ken. And Bruce doesn't run a company by day and patrol the streets at night. Bruce is batman 24/7. Most of his company is run by others while he is the face and makes decisions here and there. Do you think Bruce goes over payroll? no.

Ken is a family man. He worries about his wife and kid plus he works. he did many tournaments in his early life but cut back. he is still a force, still very good, still longs to fight Ryu (ie, relive the old days) but is he in his prime? probably not. He may have lived to fight before, and old habits do die hard, but his prioites changed when he got married and had a kid.

The only thing Liu has in common with Ken is being a protagonist in his own series, nothing else. Ken doesn't live to fight, hmmm... guess that's why he entered all those tournaments from reputable one's to under ground one's and spars Ryu when ever he can get a chance. Nope, Ken sure doesn't live to fight. Sarcasm, if you can't tell. Ryu isn't a slave to any power, it's only his determination like Gouki's to gain perfection and complete power, why he's susceptible to being corrupted. If he was a slave, he would be struggling day in and day out with it and wouldn't even be able to even fight with a stable mind at any given time. Your comparisons again are irrelevant and hold nothing. Feats, give me feats of Liu being so much better than he can easily beat Ken. Other wise, you're blowing up Liu and belittling Ken.

You are right about liu and ken having little in common. That is why I put liu up against ryu as a comparison.

Video after video I see Ryu brought to his knees trying to control the power within him. I've seen him control it a few times but mostly he's gotten overwhelmed. At the beginning of sf4 he was still struggling to find balance but like you said, and thank you for telling me, by the end of sf4 he over came the dark hadou with the help of his master. That doesn't erase the fact that through SF1, the alpha series, SF2 and through SF4 that he struggle with his inner demons and couldn't find a solution on his own. I think that solidifies that his training wasn't complete, where as i said Liu Kang's was. But through all that inner turmoil, Ken was still considered equal to ryu? If so then ken is equal to a guy who was fighting to keep his sanity.

Whether you want to admit it or not, Ryu was being held back. He was trying to fight the opponents in front of him while trying to hold back the demons inside of him. I'll concede that ken may have the same potential that ryu has, but ken wont reach as high as ryu will, not with out leaving everything else behind. Ryu has no attachments, or should I say things that pull him away from his training. Ken does.

. "Using the common laws I put up top." The keyword to your argument... "I put up". Everything you've said is merely an opinion, not fact. You still have no case and blowing a lot of smoke. Your opinion of Ken is highly wrong.

Shoot me for trying to find some stable ground to compare these two fighters. Yes I put up those rules (opinions), but how would you draw some equal measure between these two universes. Where would you draw the line to even start comparing them. I mean if you just want to go off of what the two story's says about these characters then, yes, lets go ahead.

Ken is the best martial artist to come out of America. whoopdie freakin doo.

Liu Kang is the Mortal Kombat Champion. What does that mean?? Mortal Kombat is only fought once a generation and Earth lost to Outworld for the last 9 generations. Only the best fighters from around the world are Invited, not the most famous, not the one with the most wins under their belt; Only the fighters the Gods Deem worthy can compete. Liu Kang won that. And it wasn't even close. No other earth fighter made it to the last leg of the tournament. Liu Kang isn't the best fighter on earth, he is the best fighter in Earthrealm and Outworld to to come about in the last 500 years. Really are we gonna go by that?

So far you've been belitting Ken, and blowing up Liu, with no actual evidence to support your case. If anything, all I see is fanboyism for Liu here and belittling Ken.

Now here are my points... Ken isn't that good? Go back to Street Fighter series and learn a little about Ken. Ken is considered to be the best American martial artist in Street Fighter, that would of course eliminate the idea Guile is even rival to him or any other American in Street Fighter. Ken has also defeated Ryu in Street Fighter Alpha, and you were saying that Ken doesn't have the potential? They are considered equals with a different use of their fighting styles.

Again, how can we compare the 2 fighters in question without finding, or speculating about, the similarities and differences between them. I get that you are saying that Ken and Ryu are equal, but that is SF to SF. How does MK factor into that at all? When do the story feats of an MK character cross over to the SFU and get some kind of credibility, or vise versa. Or are you saying that they can't and that the point of this thread is moot.

I'm trying to bring the 2 worlds together to a common place and create some stable arguing points. I'm trying to take into consideration their story feats and judge them accordingly.

Yes, Ken is a great fighter. The best to come out of America in a long time. But has he beat Sagat? Can he? Could Sagat be Goro's MK equivalant?

Has Ken beaten Bison or Akuma? Can he? Why can't Shang Tsung be there MK counter part?

Did he fight Seth? did he win? Could he win?

Like you said, Ken beat Ryu in alpha. But I would argue that the only time Ryu is truly pushed is when he is forced into a situation where the dark hadou comes out and he has to fight through it. Ryu has a hidden power, does Ken? If yes how do you know. Because Ryu does? Sorry but a feat from Ryu's pool doesn't equal a feat for Ken as well.

Other than being the best American Fight in SF, what other feats does Ken have? not Ryu, not Ryu and Ken, just Ken.

#16 Posted by Dark Cloud™ (2174 posts) - - Show Bio

Sorry Mortal Kombat fans, but Ken takes the victory here.

#17 Posted by royale_with_cheese (747 posts) - - Show Bio

Kang beat Raiden's ass at the end of Mortal Kombat (2011). Ken should be a walk in the park.

#18 Posted by Lady_Liberty (8211 posts) - - Show Bio

Feats are of a different nature in games, then comics. In comics they come from the scans of panels, in games they come from what happened in cannon.

Liu Kang has defeated people Ken couldn't defeat, which gives him the better feats.

And the win.

#19 Posted by saiyan_earthling (5374 posts) - - Show Bio

Liu Kang wins. He's more serious as a fighter like Ryu, and he has defeated centuries old fighters like Kitana, Shao Kahn, and monsters like Goro, Kintaro, and an Elder God Shinnok.

#20 Edited by Vance Astro (91105 posts) - - Show Bio

Ken wins.

Moderator
#21 Posted by Static Shock (47329 posts) - - Show Bio

@Vance Astro said:

Ken wins.
#22 Posted by termiteone4ever (6985 posts) - - Show Bio

KEN got this

#23 Posted by Lady_Liberty (8211 posts) - - Show Bio

@Static Shock: What feats does Ken have that put him over Liu's feats?

#24 Posted by jameshebrew (763 posts) - - Show Bio

Liu Kang will drop a arcade machine on kens head as he hides in the corner

#25 Posted by Boneawl (113 posts) - - Show Bio

@onilordasmodeus:

Thank you for responding. And just for the record, my knowledge of SF is really lacking compared to MK, but anyway.

Why are they so different. they are both Ki based attacks aren't they? What I'm proposing is that they are the same just as a hadouken is the same as a sonic boom. they exist, they are projectiles, and both characteres use them to deal damage from a far. If you really want to debate power though, I guess that would be kinda hard. In SF animes, Ki blasts can create great explosions and destructive force. Conversely when they hit a person, they seem like a concussive force similar to a punch, or kick, like cyclops' optic blasts. In MK projectiles are the same. in fights they are like puches or kicks (concusive blasts) but in mk projectiles have also be shown to kill. See Liu kangs fireball fatality (MK3, mk4, MK6) or shang's fireball in mk9 where he blew up a helecoptor.

They may not be the exact same but they are similar.

Similarities are irrelevant, they have different level out puts of damage, especially if you're using Cyclop's optic blasts as an example sense it can vary. Because they show the same game mechanics doesn't mean anything, that's simply for fair game play. Other wise, Liu would die in a couple of lightning strikes by Raiden, as shown in MK 9 with an electric shock blast. Fatalities aren't commonly used until they have defeated their opponent to an unconscious state. Feats is what determines things and Hadouken's, shown by Ryu (who Ken has shown and been considered to be Ryu's equal) has destructive force that would make Liu's fireballs look like child's play.

Ken is actually on Ryu's level, Ryu even thinks Ken is his equal, hence why he considers them rivals and best friends. Ken has the potential, the only difference is how they utilize their styles of combat. Ken, doesn't have the potential? Wrong again. How Ken lives his life doesn't say anything. I could very well say Wolverine for most of his life is filled with combat and has mastered over several fighting styles that just seem inhuman. Yet... he gets trumped by Daredevil, Iron fist, etc. Bruce Wayne is a billionaire, a businessman, a family man if you look at all the times he took in others under his own house hold (Dick ,Tim, Damien), yet he's still one of the best fighters in DC. Your logic of why Ken falls behind is just speculation under your own theory, which is highly WRONG.

Oh and it's... Satsui no Hadou, no Shun Goku Satsu... Your knowledge of SF is becoming incredible obvious you don't have a clue what you're talking about... Oh and at the end of SF 4, Ryu is taught by Gouken the style of Mu, which nullifies the Satsui no Hadou with in Ryu.

First, to say that ryu SAYS that ken is his equal is kinda flawed. I rather stick to what the character has actually done and judge and compared from that. Feats right?

Obviously you never played Street Fighter Alpha, in the series Ken beats Ryu.

Second, some of your example are off. You really can't compare wolverine or batman to ken. Wolve and Bats are crazy...literally crazy. Wolve can't remember most of his life due to psycological trauma he suffered. He is hella skilled but fights on instinct berserker mode a lot of the time. And bats, to say he a family man is reaching. To even say he's a business man is reaching. Bruce found orphans and took them out onto the streets with him. he trained them or should I say they trained with him. Bruce is cold, the opposite of Ken. And Bruce doesn't run a company by day and patrol the streets at night. Bruce is batman 24/7. Most of his company is run by others while he is the face and makes decisions here and there. Do you think Bruce goes over payroll? no.

Ken is a family man. He worries about his wife and kid plus he works. he did many tournaments in his early life but cut back. he is still a force, still very good, still longs to fight Ryu (ie, relive the old days) but is he in his prime? probably not. He may have lived to fight before, and old habits do die hard, but his prioites changed when he got married and had a kid.

You tried to make similarities with Ken to Cage, and Ryu to Liu in terms of skill because they have similarities. Point is... similarities are pointless and I've did just that, pointed it out with similarities with other characters.

You tried to say Liu is better because of his of how he came to obtain his skills by teachings of Raiden and Bo and that Ken falls behind because he has a family and is a business man. Points I made would dismiss your points because the way you live you're life does not determine your level of skill.

Video after video I see Ryu brought to his knees trying to control the power within him. I've seen him control it a few times but mostly he's gotten overwhelmed. At the beginning of sf4 he was still struggling to find balance but like you said, and thank you for telling me, by the end of sf4 he over came the dark hadou with the help of his master. That doesn't erase the fact that through SF1, the alpha series, SF2 and through SF4 that he struggle with his inner demons and couldn't find a solution on his own. I think that solidifies that his training wasn't complete, where as i said Liu Kang's was. But through all that inner turmoil, Ken was still considered equal to ryu? If so then ken is equal to a guy who was fighting to keep his sanity.

Whether you want to admit it or not, Ryu was being held back. He was trying to fight the opponents in front of him while trying to hold back the demons inside of him. I'll concede that ken may have the same potential that ryu has, but ken wont reach as high as ryu will, not with out leaving everything else behind. Ryu has no attachments, or should I say things that pull him away from his training. Ken does.

Satsui no Hadou is pointless to bring up cause it's not there anymore. And unless stated by the OP, we use current versions of the character. Liu's training is never completed, why he continues to progress in the MK series, even obtaining new moves.

Shoot me for trying to find some stable ground to compare these two fighters. Yes I put up those rules (opinions), but how would you draw some equal measure between these two universes. Where would you draw the line to even start comparing them. I mean if you just want to go off of what the two story's says about these characters then, yes, lets go ahead.

Read the battle forum rules, never create your own to gauge anything, that's what feats are asked for.

Ken is the best martial artist to come out of America. whoopdie freakin doo.

Liu Kang is the Mortal Kombat Champion. What does that mean?? Mortal Kombat is only fought once a generation and Earth lost to Outworld for the last 9 generations. Only the best fighters from around the world are Invited, not the most famous, not the one with the most wins under their belt; Only the fighters the Gods Deem worthy can compete. Liu Kang won that. And it wasn't even close. No other earth fighter made it to the last leg of the tournament. Liu Kang isn't the best fighter on earth, he is the best fighter in Earthrealm and Outworld to to come about in the last 500 years. Really are we gonna go by that?

Point is... what tournaments they been in is pointless to bring up

Again, how can we compare the 2 fighters in question without finding, or speculating about, the similarities and differences between them. I get that you are saying that Ken and Ryu are equal, but that is SF to SF. How does MK factor into that at all? When do the story feats of an MK character cross over to the SFU and get some kind of credibility, or vise versa. Or are you saying that they can't and that the point of this thread is moot.

MK doesn't factor into it at all. That's why you NEED feats, been repeating my self here now...

I'm trying to bring the 2 worlds together to a common place and create some stable arguing points. I'm trying to take into consideration their story feats and judge them accordingly.

Story feats are nothing unless they display something credible to gauge their strength and speed. SF have animated movies for the SF 4 that can help gauge Ken's strength and speed or even the Hadouken's displayed by Ryu, sense Ken and Ryu are equals

Yes, Ken is a great fighter. The best to come out of America in a long time. But has he beat Sagat? Can he? Could Sagat be Goro's MK equivalant?

Ken has never been shown to face Sagat in the story. That would be for another thread, same with Sagat vs Goro.

Has Ken beaten Bison or Akuma? Can he? Why can't Shang Tsung be there MK counter part?

Ken has faced Bison, with Ryu and they both defeated him together. Shang Tsung don't have the feats to be on par with Bison or Akuma, especially Akuma.

Did he fight Seth? did he win? Could he win?

Seth? The student of Ken from SF strike series or the other Seth? Either or... Ken never entered the tournament when his student Seth was around, he merely came along to support Seth, his student. If you're talking about the other Seth, no they never faced each other.

Like you said, Ken beat Ryu in alpha. But I would argue that the only time Ryu is truly pushed is when he is forced into a situation where the dark hadou comes out and he has to fight through it. Ryu has a hidden power, does Ken? If yes how do you know. Because Ryu does? Sorry but a feat from Ryu's pool doesn't equal a feat for Ken as well.

Ken defeats Ryu, that's all you need. Ryu losing control to Satsui no Hadou has a load of contributions to being "pushed". If he is angered or emotionally distressed in any negative way, it pushes him. It has nothing to do with who he faces and how much he struggles in a fight. It's like being corrupted by rage and sadness and all that other stuff to becoming a Sith, for a Jedi. If Ken is Ryu's equal, I don't see why their feats with Hadouken's, speed, and strength can't be gauged the same. Especially every time they spar, they are equal making Ken's speed and strength and level of destructive force with his own hadouken's comparable to Ryu's own.

Other than being the best American Fight in SF, what other feats does Ken have? not Ryu, not Ryu and Ken, just Ken.

Ken and Ryu are one in the same, Ken is more flashier and more "wild" in his style of fighting to where Ryu is more patient and more focused. There is no difference other than how they utilize their styles of combat.You're claim of Ken not being able to replicate the same feats of strength, speed, and destructive force of the "regular" hadouken. You're going to have to disprove that sense it shows that they are and considered that they are among the two, have been shown to be equals, and considered to be equals by the company that very well designed them, Capcom. In fact... Capcom has designed Ken as a rival for Ryu. So you can disprove character's opinions, showings, and the company them selves, then I'll refute about Ken and Ryu being different. Til than, Ryu and Ken are considered the same sense they've been establish to be the same.

#26 Posted by Boneawl (113 posts) - - Show Bio

@Lady_Liberty:

Neither of them really have that much feats to show, Liu or Ken. Ken has very few that are considered to be canon but you can look into the animated video for SF 4, which ties into the game but has very small showing of Ken. The best way to gauge anything solid that would seem credible for Ken, is to look at Ryu's own hadouken's destructive force and compare it or gain some idea to Ken's own, being they've been considered to be equals among them selves, shown to be equals, and considered to be equals by the company Capcom. Other than that, it just simply comes down to who you like more is all or game play mechanics. Like... in SF, I think it was Street Fighter II? Not sure, been a while.... Where you are given a bonus stage to destroy a car, allowing you to gain some idea that Ken has the damage out put to destroy something as durable as a vehicle. But like I said... this will mostly come down to who you simply like more unless you bring in game play mechanics but that will also be highly inaccurate sense that all depends on how well you are of a player with each character.

#27 Posted by Onemoreposter (3921 posts) - - Show Bio

Lui Kang wins. Bicycle kick is a death sentence

#28 Posted by Vance Astro (91105 posts) - - Show Bio
@Onemoreposter said:

Bicycle kick is a death sentence

Not at all...
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#29 Posted by Static Shock (47329 posts) - - Show Bio

@Lady_Liberty said:

@Static Shock: What feats does Ken have that put him over Liu's feats?

Good question. I wonder if Liu has any feats, to begin with. He doesn't consistently appear comic books like Ken does (and I've only read a few UDON Street Fighter books). In video games, Liu Kang shows very little feats in cinematics (just like Ken), and most of his credit comes from beating certain opponents within the story.

All in all, my choice comes from favoritism.

#30 Posted by Bestostero (5618 posts) - - Show Bio

@Static Shock: I'm gonna have to agree that Ken doesn't have any comparable feats... i don't consider the comic books canon and the match didnt state comic book versions, but based on the games:

Liu Kang defeated Goro (undefeated champion of Mortal Kombat for over 100 years) and Shang Tsung. Defeated re empowered Shang Tsung, Kintaro, and Shao Kahn and won in Outworld tournament. Defeated Shao Kahn to prevent Outworld invasion and merger of realms. Defeated Elder God Shinnok. Training from Raiden, Bo Rai Cho. He also trained Shujinko who in turn defeats Onaga. Lost to Shang Tsung/Quan Chi alliance. Rival to Kung Lao.

Ken did not compete in the first World Warrior tournament. Did not officially compete in second tournament. Drops out in the third tournament after Ryu loses. However he competes in the US Martial Artist competition where he defeats Charlie. Training from Gouken. He also trained Sean who in turn loses to Ken anyways. Lost to Akuma. Lost to Bison. Rival to Ryu, Rufus.

#31 Posted by Static Shock (47329 posts) - - Show Bio

@Bestostero: The OP doesn't state that they are based on the games. Without specifications, comic books versions are used. That's in the battle forum rules.

#32 Posted by Bestostero (5618 posts) - - Show Bio

@Static Shock said:

@Bestostero: The OP doesn't state that they are based on the games. Without specifications, comic books versions are used. That's in the battle forum rules.

Well everyone is pulling things from the game...?

#33 Posted by Vance Astro (91105 posts) - - Show Bio
@Bestostero said:

@Static Shock said:

@Bestostero: The OP doesn't state that they are based on the games. Without specifications, comic books versions are used. That's in the battle forum rules.

Well everyone is pulling things from the game...?

Maybe because everyone didn't read the rules...
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#34 Posted by Bestostero (5618 posts) - - Show Bio

@Vance Astro: well why did you say Ken would win? what has he done in the comics?

#35 Posted by onilordasmodeus (2529 posts) - - Show Bio

@Boneawl: Wow! i guess i was blown up and MK was exposed.

No MK character has any feats because over the course of the MKU's 20 year lifespan, the movies, comics, and games, nothing happened. At least nothing that counted. None of their feats of strength, skill, mystical prowess, or wisdom has amounted to anything. Wow this thread just went to stupid. I'm kinda speechless.

Akuma is the strongest because he split a mountain in half in the SF universe.

Shao Kahn is weaker because he's only erased entire planets in the MK universe.

Ken is stronger than Liu because he beat Ryu in a tournament, and Ryu has defeated other stronger warriors in the time after their fight. Hence Ken is just a strong a Ryu.

Liu is weaker than Ken since he only proved that he is the strongest fighter in MK because HE defeated everyone in a tournament,

A hadouken is strong because Ryu and Ken combined there powers, shot a hadouken, and "killed" Bison in a BIG explosion (he was thrown into a plane and the plane exploded).

Liu's fireball is weak because in Liu's fatality he was able to burn /blow up an opponent.

Bison is strong because....uh...he just is.

Shang Tsung is weak because he lost to Liu Kang and Liu kang is a nobody with no feats.

You tried to say Liu is better because of his of how he came to obtain his skills by teachings of Raiden and Bo and that Ken falls behind because he has a family and is a business man. Points I made would dismiss your points because the way you live you're life does not determine your level of skill.

I might conceed this point to you, not because of anything you said, but because of the SF movie i just watched. Ken's wife is very supportive of his fighting career. She realizes, as I just have, that fighting is a part of who he is. He kind of defines himself by how well he and Ryu fair against each other. While the way you live you life does have a direct correlation to your ability to live your life, I'll say that Ken will always find a way to keep his skills up. Point taken.

Point is... what tournaments they been in is pointless to bring up

I think I covered this, but to reiterate.Liu's tournament victories are meaningless, but Ken's (and Ryu's) tournament victory (ies) is /are everything.

Ken defeats Ryu, that's all you need. Ryu losing control to Satsui no Hadou has a load of contributions to being "pushed". If he is angered or emotionally distressed in any negative way, it pushes him. It has nothing to do with who he faces and how much he struggles in a fight. It's like being corrupted by rage and sadness and all that other stuff to becoming a Sith, for a Jedi. If Ken is Ryu's equal, I don't see why their feats with Hadouken's, speed, and strength can't be gauged the same. Especially every time they spar, they are equal making Ken's speed and strength and level of destructive force with his own hadouken's comparable to Ryu's own.

This is bull. you say ken and ryu are equal on all levels here, but earlier you talk about their styles being different and it's those differences that make them equal. Which one is it? Even the games show their skills diverge from each other. They are the same but different....right? Or is there another explanation.

The main reason I put them on different levels is because they have been shown to be on different levels, case in point, the SF movies. In the SF2 animated movie, ken and ryu were said to be on different level by bison (he flat out said it!) and in the final fight it was Ryu who was able to press bison ALONE and score some key hits.

In the SF4 movie, Ryu went all super ryu on Seth (eyes glowing white, a different power than the dark hadou). I have yet to see Ken do an attack like that.

In the SF alpha movie, Ken landed his ultimate Shoryuken on the main baddie's first form, very impressive, but nothing in the eys of his victim. Ken only made his jaw go crooked. Ryu flat out destroyed the guy with a dark hadou infused hadouken, then did a more power version against the main baddies true form, destroying him.

The games say they are equal, the movies show they are not.

#36 Posted by Vance Astro (91105 posts) - - Show Bio
@Bestostero said:

@Vance Astro: well why did you say Ken would win? what has he done in the comics?

I wasn't really basing it on feats, I was more basing it on the power he has at his disposal.
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#37 Posted by Lady_Liberty (8211 posts) - - Show Bio

Liu Kang is a game character, if you don't count his game feats, well, that's kinda dumb.

If its an illegal thread, it should be locked, but characters should always get their feats from their primary media. In this case, games.

#38 Posted by Vance Astro (91105 posts) - - Show Bio
@Lady_Liberty said:

Liu Kang is a game character, if you don't count his game feats, well, that's kinda dumb.

If its an illegal thread, it should be locked, but characters should always get their feats from their primary media. In this case, games.

Mortal Kombat and Street Fighter have comics.The thread isn't illegal, I think you misunderstood what Static said.The OP has to specify that the feats from the game versions are what we are using, otherwise we use comics by default.This is COMICvine after all.
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#39 Posted by Lady_Liberty (8211 posts) - - Show Bio

@Vance Astro: So with the Manga threads, they have no feats unless they also have a comic?

#40 Posted by dccomicsrule2011 (23151 posts) - - Show Bio

Ken>Liu Kang

Street Fighter>Mortal Kombat

#41 Posted by Vance Astro (91105 posts) - - Show Bio
@Lady_Liberty said:

@Vance Astro: So with the Manga threads, they have no feats unless they also have a comic?

Manga is considered japanese comics, do you mean Anime?
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#42 Posted by Lady_Liberty (8211 posts) - - Show Bio

@Vance Astro: No, I meant manga. Thank's for the quick response though :-)

#43 Posted by Onemoreposter (3921 posts) - - Show Bio

Lui beat Goro, Sung, Kahn, and Shinnok (who is a literal elder God i.e. above raiden). I see no reason to believe SF villains are strong than any one of those 3(Goro being the exception).

Also, I'm pretty sure he defeated most of these guys back in the Malibu series (minus Shinnok), if we were actually pulling strictly from comics....which it doesn't seem like we are.

#44 Posted by Vance Astro (91105 posts) - - Show Bio
@Onemoreposter said:

Lui beat Goro, Sung, Kahn, and Shinnok (who is a literal elder God i.e. above raiden). I see no reason to believe SF villains are strong than any one of those 3(Goro being the exception).

Also, I'm pretty sure he defeated most of these guys back in the Malibu series (minus Shinnok), if we were actually pulling strictly from comics....which it doesn't seem like we are.

Did you read the Malibu series or do you have any actual reference to pull from or are you just assuming that it's like the comics because i've read the SF Malibu series and it was ALMOST nothing like the video games story wise.
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#45 Edited by Onemoreposter (3921 posts) - - Show Bio

@Vance Astro: I actually read a good bit of it. It's been years and I think the only part I actually own is the Prince of Pain mini. Much of it was retconned by later games/media but it went(basically) along with the main story. Again, I was just saying the Malibu series fall in line with the game on major points. The only reason I brought it up is because somebody mentioned we're suppose to be debating comics.

#46 Posted by Vance Astro (91105 posts) - - Show Bio
@Onemoreposter said:

 The only reason I brought it up is because somebody mentioned we're suppose to be debating comics.

We are.
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#47 Edited by Onemoreposter (3921 posts) - - Show Bio

@Vance Astro: Well then I'm glad I mentioned it

#48 Edited by onilordasmodeus (2529 posts) - - Show Bio

Kamidogu.com has most, if not all the comics, there to read. Including the Goro series.

In the comics I scanned, Goro smashed a car with his bare hands and Raiden caught a falling plane and flew in to the sun set with it. MK2 Jax was shown to be able to punch through the wall of a commercial plane. Kung Lao used a Multi-punch punch like move to break a tree in half (think honda hand slap with fists). Liu Kang was shown to be able to shatter ruby, the second hardest natural substance in the world. Liu Kang accomplished this FEAT in his early teens, he is in his mid 20's now.

And through all of this Each and every one of them fear Shao Kahn, the "all-powerful" Emperor. Someone who displays power beyond that of the Gods. This is crazy talk. I really feel as though because SF has more anime explosions people are saying SF is better.

Frankly, the feats from the MK comics, movies, and the games should hold the same weight. While everything may not be acknowledge in the other (and frankly what property does this), the feats speak for themselves as to what these characters are capable of. The big thing for me is though, why can't one MK character be used to measure another? It's being done in the case of Ryu and Ken and I know it happens else where as well. I mean in multiple media offerings Raiden is shown to be more than a normal (mortal) man with lightning powers, he is a god and old Shang Tsung is shown to be going toe to toe with him multiple times. Fujin, another god, fell from the heavens onto the earth and left a crater in the ground and lived. Some of the demonic creatures who overwhelmed him were matched and beaten by Liu Kang, the others we taken out by Kai and Raiden. Goro (who is 8'2" and 550lbs) breaks cars and people just the same. Liu Kang beat him and the Sorceror who fought Raiden to a stale mate.

But liu sucks and loses to Ken because he only has a credible strength /skill feat of breaking ruby.

Wow! If this is how it is then I guess I should just hang it up.

#49 Posted by onilordasmodeus (2529 posts) - - Show Bio

I guess just to throw more fuel on the fire, MK does have a test your might mode. All characters have the potential to shatter diamond!

#50 Posted by FourthDeity (2234 posts) - - Show Bio

Ken will curbstomp lui kang. I'm a huge fan of both MK and SF.

Ken shattered a mountain with a single punch at 13 just so he can get trained by gouken.

his hadokens are pretty much undodgeable to humans like lui

The only way I see kang giving ken a problem is his dragon transformation