KC Superman vs Hal Thordan

Rules:

• Hal Thordan has the Mind of Hal Jordan, The Gear of a Green Lantern Ring and Mjolnir, and Asgardian Physiology. Hal now knows how to use the hammer just as good as regular Thor does.
• This is Superman as seen in the storyline "Kingdom Come"
• No BFR
• Win by any means
• Set in an unpopulated Manhattan, both start at opposite sides.
• Random Encounter

Rounds:

1. R1: In Character
2. R2: Both competely bloodlusted

Nice Name @granitesoldier

Callouts:

KC Superman both rounds.

It really just sounds like you're saying "Hal Jordan" with a lisp.

hal can't even beat the regular superman. how is he going to beat a superman with no weaknesses.

Hal Thordon stomps. Not even joking.

@shiryu: you made me laugh with that one, I didn't notice it.

KC Superman >>>>>>>>>> New Earth Superman, or in fact IS New Earth Superman from the future.

DEBATE!

Unless there is something im missing with KC superman, Thor has been quoted to being Superman's equal multiple times by both sides of the writing panel. + a green lantern ring into that mix makes it even harder, as the green lantern suit is like another suit of hyper-tough armour, with the green lantern aura. Thor is also basically physically invulnerable to most of what superman does, while he has the magic to take down superman in Mjolnir, his lightning is magical, as well as god-blasts etc which have done a lot of wrecking. Both of them have similar strength and toughness feats and i just think without the ring its an awesome fight that goes 50-50.

But of course there is the psychological factor. Superman is never expecting to be hurt, and when he begins bleeding, superman changes up and serious' up, as well as becoming a little more desperate, cos, now he's fighting for his life against an opponent which could actually 'kill' him. While Thor, does very much the same, he enjoys fighting, so, he tends to let them go on longer unless he HAS to end it.

Give thor an artifact like the green lantern ring, and it becomes 60/40 in favor of thor imho. I really do think they're equals, with superman being faster, Thor being tougher, but can still throw his hammer at speeds faster than superman, they just match blow for blow and its awesome.

Bur like i said, There might be something about KC superman i don't know. So, I hope i helped ^_^ / dont get chewed out

@nitenovanavium: KC Superman is 3-4x more powerful than Superman. He's in his 50's and absorbed a massive influx of Solar Radiation, he flew so fast Jay Garrick wondered whether he was as fast as Wally West and when Hercules with his Golden Fleece hit normal Superman, Superman got smashed, when he punched KC Superman, nothing happened.

KC Superman is by far above normal Superman.

EDITED

Okay, but those to me just kinda seem like normal superman to me. Superman to me will always be the approaching light speed fast, infinite mass punching dude he always was/ could be. Superman could already match flash in speed, but, as of now, superman cannot travel in time with it ('>.>) I'm just failing to see how he differs from normal superman with your explanation. Normal superman is capable of catching punches from Darkseid when he serious' up, and i don't think Hercules is 'that' strong, is he? But maybe i've read superman from different writers other than the norm.

Thor tanks black holes and supernovas.

So, even at PEAK feats with both characters, i still think they're both planet busting forces of nature... i think they're equal, even rune king thor i think matches prime 1mil Sups. But if KC superman is indeed THAT much stronger, I would say he wins more often than not against normal thor, as I don't know KC superman, (I'm comparing him to when superman is dying from over exposure to the sun, hopefully a good reference). Which, Makes it harder for Thor, but, I still don't think it's impossible for even normal Thor's victory. The green lantern ring is the most powerful weapon in the universe (hyperbole) and it is powered by 'will'. There is no will greater than Thors. It's like the will of a shounen jump protagonist. XD

I'll come back to this when I can get on a computer. I hate debating on a phone.

@nitenovanavium: I don't think you actually read the post... Hercules was beating down New Earth Superman and when he went to punch KC Superman he simply wasn't capable of damaging him...

KC Supes wins faster than regular Supes and three times as strong. He also took hits from Hercules like it was nothing so speed blitz ftw

@boringperson: I did, and i compared Hercules to Darkseid, if Hercules is stronger than Darkseid, which even normal superman was capable of catching punches from, i stand corrected, if not and Darkseid is stronger than Hercules, then by comparison, Normal superman should have not flinched at Herc's strength, and i still see no difference. If that makes sense.

I compare KC superman to superman when he overloads on sun energy and basically ends up dying. And even then, i don't think Thor winning is impossible. 65/35 in superman's favor? Add the green lantern ring and knowledge on its use, and it becomes 50/50 again. with 5 going either way.

Combined draining abilities of mjolnir and lantern ring makes this an easy win

Hal Thordon

KC Superman 7/10 IMO. Thordan can definitely win.

Loses.

@nitenovanavium: Superman has never tanked DS's punches without flinching, more often than not he gets smacked around or hurt, Hercules wielded his Golden Fleece which made him stronger.

Your comparison makes no sense either - Superman was not overloaded, he was not dying, his condition was far more well nourished and mature.

@nitenovanavium

Thor tanks black holes and supernovas.

When you say Thor tanks supernovas, you wouldn't happen to mean this particular incident now, would you?

Hal Thordan, while the concept is solid, is featless. We have no idea how he'd fight if he had the abilities of a GL ring and Mjolnir/the powers of Thor at his disposal.

Thus, I give this to KC Supes. He seems like one of those Silver Age Revival characters like Superboy Prime who would just stomp all of the Post-Crisis characters without even thinking much about it.

@mysticmedivh: That incident was an illusion.

@frozen: Sure

The OP is a featless character with a featless buff. Arguing for him is speculative. Both Thor and Hal, individually would get trashed by KC Superman due to his much higher power levels, the OP's version is a cool concept but that's about as far as it goes.

@frozen: The OP gives enough. With Hal's mind, Thor is much faster than usual. Having Thor's physical body, who IMO is more durable than Superman, can last enough to drop him with TP or bash him with Mjornir till he's paste

Hal.

KC Superman blitzes him.

Lol, no it doesn't. It says ''knows how to use it like Thor'' which usually consists of throwing it around and not utilizing it's versatility, with a weapon like Mjolnir and Thor-like knowledge on the Mjolnir, we have no idea whether he'll be more inclined to fight like Hal might or simply resort to fighting like Thor.

Not only is KC Superman much stronger and faster, but durability wise he made normal Superman look weak (and normal Superman has tanked a blast which is equivalent to 50 Supernova's). And after his fight with Captain Marvel, easily punched Gog's third world magic lightning.

@frozen: Clearly you didn't what I wrote because I said Hal's mind, who knows who Superman is

Physically yes but not in striking power

Not so much faster due to Hal's mind

IIRC, it was 50 times bigger not 50 supernovas

Clark gets dropped with telepathy

I read everything you wrote. Hal does not know KC Superman, he has little to not knowledge of him, he probably does not know he's immune to Kryptonite either {there was one time where it did affect him, but this can be written off because A) It's from another Universe and B) It was stated in Kingdom Come he had grew immune}.

• Strength matters - he was strong enough to shrugg off a JSA dogpile
• KC Superman moved so fast, to the point where Jay remarked he was just as fast as Wally {which means alot coming from Jay}. The same writer {Geoff Johns} wrote a comic in which normal Superman was only an even match for Jay
• 50x bigger than Kepler's, that's akin to being 50 normal sized Supernova's
• Telepathy is a power which Hal has not really utilized much on a consistent basis and he's not a very notable telepath, and considering he is up against some as strong, but moreso very fast as KC Superman, it is unlikely

@frozen: No you didn't lol because you thought I said Thor's mind.It's Superman more or less, not an entirely different character. I never mentioned kryptonite so that's irrelevant

Not compared to striking power in which Thor has on deck

I know that but Hal doesn't have street level speed so Hal can keep up

No it doesn't

It's still a viable option or just taking him down with Mjornir physically

I did, even with Hal's mind, he may be more inclined to use his own style of fighting rather than mixing it up with the Mjolnir --- he knows how to use it as ''regular Thor does'' which is on a conistent basis, throwing it around and spamming lightning. It's an alternate version of Superman, Hal has no idea who he is, or the extent of his powers, the Kryptonite comment was to reference a difference between mainstream canon and alternate canon.

We have seen characters across the board tank Thor's shots, that's not to say it's not weak, but he's dealing with someone 3-4x stronger than normal Superman, someone who shrugged off a team and easily tanked the punch of Golden Fleece Hercules without flinching (Thor can't tank the punches of Marvel Hercules as KC Superman did to DC Hercules). In addition to this, it's been consistentley shown, in his fights with Hulk that strength matters, Hulk's physical strength has often troubled Thor regardless of striking.

Keeping up with someone who moved far too fast for Jay, and even normal Superman will be difficult, and it's only his mind which may, not his actual movement.

Then what does it mean? If you have 1 x 50 = 50; you will still have 50 number 1's.

It's an option he rarely uses, as Thor rarely utilizes abilities of Mjolnir.

@frozen: No he wouldn't because it's just Hal's mind not Thors.It's Superman.Hell the S Shield should give it away

Hulk is physically superior to both Superman and Thor so that doesn't help your case.What makes DC Hercules better than Marvel's Hercules?

Hal chained up Zoom and Zoom just a panel(s) before blitzed Superman and Wonder Woman.Hal won't be frozen to Clark

It's 50 times bigger.How does that translate to 50 Supernovas?

Still an option or just beats him down with Mjornir

• Hal's mind doesn't mean he can figure out how KC Superman works, his powers operate on a different level
• Superior to KC Superman? No, I don't think he's anywhere near that benchmark, Hulk is closer to normal Superman. KC Supes beat the Hulk family on another thread. I also never said DC Hercules > Marvel Hercules, I said the difference between KC Superman and DC Hercules is greater than the difference between Marvel Hercules and Thor
• As I cited, normal Superman is much slower than KC Superman {also never said Hal would be frozen}. Zoom toys with the JLA, he's moved so fast Wally of all people appeared frozen to him
• It translates to 50 Kepler's. Which is a well known Supernova 1604
• About as viable as Thor using his other abilities, he's not beating down someone who is much stronger, more durable and faster

Not to mention the OP is a buff, a featless character with made up hypotheticals.

I agree with you.

Harold

The Green guy.

@pokeysteve: For now....

Thor could win by himself, giving him a GL ring just makes it a stomp

So we have a top tier herald character with a Hammer that manipulates matter, and a ring that can create any construct he choses?

KC Superman goes down.

Debate'

:)

@pr0metheus: Isn't this battle against the rules?

I mean, unless Hal Thordan is an actual character, then I doubt we can actually debate with him.

But anyway, I think @frozen is getting across any points I would have addressed on this topic. I'll just see how this plays out and occasionally intervene.

@darkraiden: If you really believe Thor is beating KC Superman by himself, then you must know nothing of KC Superman, or dubiously overrate Thor.

It is if I just gave Thor a GL ring or Hal Mjolnir with no foreknowledge, because they wouldn't know how to use it, but Hal knows how to use it fully able as much as Thor does, meaning anything Thor can do with it, Hal can now do.

Or ....or...Thor draining him still works, his lightning would still hurt, as would hits from Mjolnir etc. Only difference is that KC Superman lasts longer.

@darkraiden: If you can provide me at least four consecutive scans of any version of Thor "draining" power or radiation from an opponent, then I'll agree. Otherwise, he's done it far too few time for it to be a viable strategy in his arsenal.

Secondly, no, most of Thor's lightning attacks aren't going to do anything against KC Superman. If he was able to easily punch away a bolt of lightning by someone as powerful as Gog, then he's going to be swatting away Thor's lightning like it's going out of style.

Lastly, what makes you think Thor would even be fast enough to touch KC Superman?