#1 Edited by Geno (282 posts) - - Show Bio
Team 1: Katana and Nightwing (Pre-New 52)
Team 2: Daredevil and Shang-Chi

Team 1:

  • Katana is equipped with Soultaker, a pair of near-indestructible enchanted sais and sixteen throwing knives.
  • Nightwing is equipped with a pair of electric Escrima sticks, a grappling hook, and a mix of a dozen Wing-Dings (conventional, explosive, electric).
  • Team 1 is defending the battle location and are familiar with it (an artificial home-field advantage, if you will).

Team 2:

  • Daredevil is equipped with two billy clubs and a separate extendable staff.
  • Shang-Chi is equipped with a pair of electric nunchaku and energy gauntlets/katars.
  • Team 2 is assaulting the battle location and are unfamiliar with it.

Rules and Location:

  • Both teams get one hour to prep for the battle. They can watch and analyze a 10 minute clip of each of their opponents fighting (and beating) a dozen skilled warriors, but nothing else (i.e., Team 1 won't be aware of Daredevil's abilities, but it may be deducible).
  • In character, but each team is under the belief that their opponents are responsible for heinous crimes of robbery, arson, rape and murder.
  • The battle takes place in - and is confined to - a large abandoned temple in Japan surrounded by a thick forest.
    • 3 levels plus the roof; a 100 square meter area with plenty of cover and beams to climb or hang from.
The battleground

Pair them off however you prefer, but which team comes out victorious in the end?

#2 Posted by Yokergeist (12355 posts) - - Show Bio

Team 1. I think Nightwing is better than Daredevil and I don't know who Shang-Chi is. Any feats?

#3 Posted by GraniteSoldier (8529 posts) - - Show Bio

Shang Chi is stated as one of the best, top tier martial artists of Marvel. Unfortunately, he doesn't have many showings on his resume, so it's hard to back that up (that I know of). Personally, I think Nightwing is a better fighter than Daredevil, and despite DD's radar I think Dick can take him in a tough fight. I don't know anything about Katana, and based on the limited showings from Shang, I'm leaning Team 1 right now.

#4 Posted by Geno (282 posts) - - Show Bio

@granitesoldier: Well, some of Katana's high end feats include being able to dodge and deflect multiple bullets from automatic weapons with her sword. She also fought Lady Shiva, having been beaten by her the first time (Shiva blindsided her after Katana was already injured) and subsequently putting up a better fight in a rematch - although Shiva still technically won by impaling her with her own sword.

As for some notable Shang-Chi's feats, he trained Spider-Man in martial arts and, while training him, was able to keep up with the wall crawler's speed and agility. He's also a bonafide bullet timer who's able to dodge bullets after they leave the chamber of a gun, and he has some impressive striking feats (striking through reinforced steel with ease, snapping limbs in half, karate-chopping the leg off of a planet-destroying robot).

I can provide specific scans for either if requested (and if my word isn't enough).

#5 Posted by Wolverine08 (43793 posts) - - Show Bio

Shang Chi is stated as one of the best, top tier martial artists of Marvel. Unfortunately, he doesn't have many showings on his resume, so it's hard to back that up (that I know of). Personally, I think Nightwing is a better fighter than Daredevil, and despite DD's radar I think Dick can take him in a tough fight. I don't know anything about Katana, and based on the limited showings from Shang, I'm leaning Team 1 right now.

I would say that Daredevil's showings of skill are noticeably better than Nightwing's. Matt is more better compared to Dick's mentor Batman than to Dick in terms of skill.

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#6 Posted by GraniteSoldier (8529 posts) - - Show Bio

@geno: My only familiarity with Shang came from his training with Spider-Man, but he had Peter wear an inhibitor collar to keep his powers in check so he didn't rely on them. Still impressive the fact he taught Peter to be an incredibly capable hand to hand fighter in a unique style in such a short amount of time.

#7 Posted by Wolverine08 (43793 posts) - - Show Bio

Daredevil and Shang Chi win this. Daredevil should drop Nightwing for a majority. He has considerably better skill feats, better reflexes and agility, and Nightwing doesn't spam equipment from the out start of a fight. Shang Chi is working with relatively few showings, but so is Katana. He should be able to hang with her long enough for Daredevil to beat Nightwing and help him.

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#8 Posted by GraniteSoldier (8529 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolverine08: See I often find Nightwing to be underrated, that he's forever compared to Batman. I think Batman is a different tier than both Dick and Matt, but Dick has shown he can hang with Bruce. I think his margin over Matt is narrow, but it comes from a combination of hand to hand skill and equipment usage. Perhaps my first post of "better fighter" was muddled, I think Matt is a better hand to hand combatant. It's Dick's comparable skill and wide array of gear that gives him the edge. Those tazer-like escrima sticks will put a hurting on Matt after repeated strikes. The grapple gun is going to give Dick better mobility as well. The wing-dings are nothing Matt can't dodge, but a well-placed explosive one can throw Matt off his game and create an opening for Dick.

#9 Posted by patrat18 (10198 posts) - - Show Bio

Team 1.

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#10 Edited by Geno (282 posts) - - Show Bio

@granitesoldier: He only made Peter wear the inhibitor collar at the start of their training. Later on, Shang-Chi used magnetic boots and gloves to mimic Spider-Man's wall-crawling ability. The whole point of the training was to let Peter develop a martial artist's instinct that could substitute his lost spider senses and work synergistically with his powers. Shang also fought and stalemated Spider-Man back in an earlier appearance.

#11 Edited by Geno (282 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolverine08: Katana regularly and consistently deflects bullets from machine guns which is a better speed/reaction feat than any I can remember seeing from Nightwing. She's also been able to fight well against Shiva despite being severely injured at the time and manages to impress her enough that Shiva wants to fight her when she's fully healed (see exhibit below). Although I am uncertain of the outcome, I know she also managed to hold her own against Azrael.

#12 Posted by ForeverEvil (4788 posts) - - Show Bio

this thread makes me want to read the Katana issues ive put off till later. all i know of her is from what I've read in Justice League of America and Birds of Prey

#14 Posted by WaveMotionCannon (5540 posts) - - Show Bio

Team 2

#15 Posted by SirNeko (1057 posts) - - Show Bio

Nightwing reacted to Impulse(Bart Allen) in Young Justice.

Team 1 wins.

#16 Posted by Hyperlight (6186 posts) - - Show Bio

team 2

#17 Posted by GraniteSoldier (8529 posts) - - Show Bio

@geno: I get that, but the collar was removed so Peter could actually wall-crawl. Peter by nature holds back against his enemies, you can't really think he's going that hard or fast in a training match with a friend? The earlier appearance is just that, and a low-showing of Spidey to say the least. He was inexperienced, and Shang-Chi was able to "hang with him" (I used the term loosely, because if Peter didn't always hold back Shang wouldn't have stood a chance) because he was able to adapt to Spidey based on his body movements, like any well trained fighter. I am not discounting Shang's skill. But he does not have as many showings against skilled fighters as the others here. And on this forum, as I am often reminded, it is feats that matter.

I know it is rumored Shang is going to be taking on Gorgon in an issue of something sometimes soon, so maybe he'll start getting the feats he deserves.

#18 Edited by Wolverine08 (43793 posts) - - Show Bio

@geno: I get that, but the collar was removed so Peter could actually wall-crawl. Peter by nature holds back against his enemies, you can't really think he's going that hard or fast in a training match with a friend? The earlier appearance is just that, and a low-showing of Spidey to say the least. He was inexperienced, and Shang-Chi was able to "hang with him" (I used the term loosely, because if Peter didn't always hold back Shang wouldn't have stood a chance) because he was able to adapt to Spidey based on his body movements, like any well trained fighter. I am not discounting Shang's skill. But he does not have as many showings against skilled fighters as the others here. And on this forum, as I am often reminded, it is feats that matter.

I know it is rumored Shang is going to be taking on Gorgon in an issue of something sometimes soon, so maybe he'll start getting the feats he deserves.

It's completely true. Shang Chi is going to be going blow for blow with Gorgon for "20 pages of bone crushing martial arts action like you have never seen it before." this February in Avengers World #3. Should be fun to watch.

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#19 Posted by Razerhandz (187 posts) - - Show Bio

Lets see hmm..........possibly team 1 because I feel that Dick will beat DD and go help Katana fight Shang Chi. But it would be a good fight.

#20 Posted by CF12793 (2993 posts) - - Show Bio

@sirneko said:

Nightwing reacted to Impulse(Bart Allen) in Young Justice.

Team 1 wins.

This battle isn't using that version of Nightwing.

#21 Edited by Geno (282 posts) - - Show Bio

@granitesoldier said:

@geno: I get that, but the collar was removed so Peter could actually wall-crawl. Peter by nature holds back against his enemies, you can't really think he's going that hard or fast in a training match with a friend? The earlier appearance is just that, and a low-showing of Spidey to say the least. He was inexperienced, and Shang-Chi was able to "hang with him" (I used the term loosely, because if Peter didn't always hold back Shang wouldn't have stood a chance) because he was able to adapt to Spidey based on his body movements, like any well trained fighter.

Peter might not be out for blood, but he was throwing real punches and kicks - that tends to be an aspect of sparring, as opposed to teaching forms and technique. Besides, the point of training Spider-Man in martial arts was to help improve his reflexes and "danger sense" in the absence of his spider-sense, and in order to do so he needed to let instinct take over (which would explain why he eventually does land a clean hit). That being said, I am well aware Peter usually holds back while fighting those without super-human durability or a healing factor.

As for the earlier appearance, you can chalk it up to Peter being inexperienced, but he definitely wasn't holding back. He went into the fight believing Shang murdered five people in cold blood, and he eventually realized that he couldn't beat him in close combat, opting instead to leap away and web Shang from afar.

Edit: Also, here's the training scene with dialogue. Nothing indicates Spider-Man was holding back - at least not anymore than he usually would in a fight, and Shang encourages him to give it his all before eventually getting tagged (to which he quickly shrugs off).

#22 Posted by GraniteSoldier (8529 posts) - - Show Bio

@geno said:

@granitesoldier said:

@geno: I get that, but the collar was removed so Peter could actually wall-crawl. Peter by nature holds back against his enemies, you can't really think he's going that hard or fast in a training match with a friend? The earlier appearance is just that, and a low-showing of Spidey to say the least. He was inexperienced, and Shang-Chi was able to "hang with him" (I used the term loosely, because if Peter didn't always hold back Shang wouldn't have stood a chance) because he was able to adapt to Spidey based on his body movements, like any well trained fighter.

Peter might not be out for blood, but he was throwing real punches and kicks - that tends to be an aspect of sparring, as opposed to teaching forms and technique. Besides, the point of training Spider-Man in martial arts was to help improve his reflexes and "danger sense" in the absence of his spider-sense, and in order to do so he needed to let instinct take over (which would explain why he eventually does land a clean hit). That being said, I am well aware Peter usually holds back while fighting those without super-human durability or a healing factor.

As for the earlier appearance, you can chalk it up to Peter being inexperienced, but he definitely wasn't holding back. He went into the fight believing Shang murdered five people in cold blood, and he eventually realized that he couldn't beat him in close combat, opting instead to leap away and web Shang from afar.

Let's be honest, him not being able to tag Shang is as much PiS as speed-blitzing Firelord...

#23 Posted by Nefarious (21316 posts) - - Show Bio

Team 2 wins.

#24 Posted by daredevil21134 (12121 posts) - - Show Bio

Daredevil & Shang Chi

#25 Edited by Pokeysteve (8425 posts) - - Show Bio

DD and Shang should take this in a good fight. I believe to be the better fighters.

#26 Posted by dcandmarvel (733 posts) - - Show Bio

team 2

#27 Posted by saiyan_earthling (5459 posts) - - Show Bio

Team 2. Better Fighters