karna vs arjuna

from 'mahabharat'.

At their strongest.

Uhm.

@WolverineIsTOAA: ???

Wow. Never thought I'd see this battle on comicvine.

Karna gets my vote. There's a reason he was cursed, removed of his greatest weapon, made to donate his childhood gifts, and tricked into staying away from the battlefield for ten days..

Karna. Rather easily I'd say. Arjuna was able to kill him only because Karna had given away his armor and earring to Indra.

It was pretty clear that Karna had more skill and raw power( Krishna even commented on his power once, saying it was greater than that of Arjuna's).

Even when Karna was not at his peak, Arjuna had to resort to cheating to kill him. At peak, Karna was much better warrior than Arjuna.

Btw, I'd love to see more of these battles.

Sounds interesting.

@ssj_god:

@brainstorm01:

without plot device (i.e being cursed to forget his weapons at the right moment, or the wheel of his chariot getting stuck at the right moment...and that wicked krishna :D), karna takes this with 'shakti' arrow (which he was forced to waste to kill ghatotkach)... arjun can't penetrate his 'kavaj kundal' (which he was made to donate by trickery)... and karna was easily as great if not better warrior as arjun.

Well, technically he got Shakti because he gave up Kavach-Kundal. He can't have both at the same time :p

Killing Ghatotkach was hardly a waste, their fight was killing the entire Kuru army...

lol.. op said at full power XD

and yes.. that's why he was forced to use it on ghatotkach... because no one else were able to stop him... i said it was a waste, because he was keeping it for arjun... krishna knew it.. so he sent ghatotkach ahead as a sacrifice, so that karna gets forced to use 'shakti' on him.

@ssj_god:

lol.. op said at full power XD

and yes.. that's why he was forced to use it on ghatotkach... because no one else were able to stop him... i said it was a waste, because he was keeping it for arjun... krishna knew it.. so he sent ghatotkach ahead as a sacrifice, so that karna gets forced to use 'shakti' on him.

Eh, if Alayudh had held his own for a while, he wouldn't need to.

And didn't they face off earlier that night, but it was all five + satyaki/others vs him solo at the time so he couldn't use it? He was pretty OP in a battle during night himself..

yes... but ghatotkach was monstrous and magical... krishna knew no one except karna would be able to stop him...

and yes.. as i said.. without plot device, karna is a fearsome warrior... a nightmare marksman i'd say to have on the other side :D

idk

you dunno what?.. the characters here?

@ssj_god: I have very little knowledge on these deities so I wasn't gonna comment on the thread.

ahh ok.. these are characters from hindu legends... from the epic 'mahabharat'

these two are perhaps the greatest marksmen warriors of the epic, with mythical weapons and abilities.

As explained by the above posts Karna wins this one.

@ssj_god: Who do you think would win if Karna at his peak fought with Lord Rama?

rama... brambhastra didn't worked on him

@ssj_god: Bramahastra didn't work on Hanumana either. And I remember Karan doing some serious damage to Arjuna's ratha, and Hanumana was sitting on it. Doesn't prove that Karna could actually hurt Hanumana, but he did make a ratha skid back which had Arjuna, Lord Krishna and Hanumana sitting on it.

I don't remember the time Rama was hit with Bramahastra. When was it?

Karna is the better warrior , but arjun is overall smarter imo (probably because of spending time with yudhishtra). Karna wins.

Abhimanyu vs Bheem might be a good battle

yeah.. but still i don't see even shakti working on rama... though if we only match on marksmanship.. then certainly a match can be made

rama was hit by brambhastra... it became a flower neckless in his neck iirc

where r u frm? o.O

Pretty sure Rama will win quite Handily.

@ssj_god: new York. But I've read the mahabharat

that's .. pretty cool :D

@ssj_god: @princearagorn1: Which version of Mahabharata have you read? I'm looking to read it once again with as much detail as possible. In English. Any recommendations?

@rbt: there's a really good 3 piece comic version that you can get in English, I recommend that one.

which version i read?... hmm.. let me accumulate...

firstly... i heard the whole mahabharate from my grandfather in a span of two full years (he told me bit by bit every night before i went to sleep.. and resume where he stopped on the next night).. when i was about 6-7 years of age... it was probably kashidashi mahabharat.. since i've seen the book in his place.

then i read thin books of mahabharat with lots of pictures. (i was in middle school then)

then i read full volume of mahabharat (forgot the writer).. when i was in the middle school.. and watched mahabharat on television (serial)

and after that.. till this day.. i forgot how many stories and part of mahabharat i've read/watched till now (even watched some animations of today :D)

....... so that's it.... these are my accumulated knowledge of mahabharat.

I read several versions.. I think the original is translated in English as well, and was pretty well-done.

Really?

It's a little hard to believe 3 piece comic will cover all of it though.

how can an epic be uncovered in within that small pieces... i think it's a super duper hyper summarized version.. but still i think it's worth a read... great.. :D

there's a legend about writing the original mahabharat too.. do you want to here it?

@princearagorn1: @ssj_god: I'll try to find one on flipkart.

@thenewbluebeetle007: This one?http://www.flipkart.com/mahabharata-set-3-volumes-english/p/itmdyv7hpagzhq5h

that's a comics?

@rbt: @ssj_god: that's the one.

3 volume comics on Mahabharata. It's a bit crammed but it's very good.

Warning you though, the ending is very sudden. In 3 panels, it turns from a party to a bloodbath.

you people dont even know what actually happend in mahabharat

listen to my points carefully

1.the bow given to karan by pashuraam was not an ordinary bow ..it was said that anyone possesing thar bow coudn't be defeated thats why krishana said that you wont get another chance to kill him as karan was far away from his bow

2.about his kavach and kundal..it is specified that kavach and kundal were not a part of karan but was a part of suryanarayan and as we all know all gods and demigods are immortal thus using these things was like using a power of a demigod and as we can see it was not a fight between demigods thus was not legal.

3.arjun pleged not to use his two most powerful weapon i.e bhramshira(4Xbramastra) and the most fearsome astra of shiva the "pashupastar" as these weapon would 't have only vanished karan but the whole universe with him thus ....in one way he didn't even used his full potential ...that's what makes him better than karan who willingly used nagasta with was at that time fused with "aswasena" the naag raj which was illegal just to prove himself superior to arjun where as arjun only focused to be "uttam" that's why he didn't used his most powerful weapon .....but of course as we say no one can deny destiny thus he defeated karna one way or another ...

more over

1.why karan was so eager to save his vasvi shakti ?didn't he trusted his skills

2.not only that he even used nagastra knowing that arjun will not counter it due to his promise to his father to protect snakes as naagraj was a good friend of indra.

3.krishana himself announced that arjun is the best archer as he was the only one who was on the level of lord rama and parshurama.

4.karan was physicaly much more stronger than arjun but arjun was more skilled in every astra - shastra

within 3 panels?! o.O

@vasu12360:

you are not seeing the plot device needed against karna.. despite how big of a warrior arjun was.. even krishna knew he wouldn't have defeated karna.. that's why plot device was needed...

and lol at saying using kavaj kundal is cheating... that's his birth gift XD ... even using gained weapons aren't cheating.. and you think using something he had by birth is cheating? :D

1.why karan was so eager to save his vasvi shakti ?didn't he trusted his skills

because it was a sure 1 hit kill

2.not only that he even used nagastra knowing that arjun will not counter it due to his promise to his father to protect snakes as naagraj was a good friend of indra.

so?.. i thought we all knew his intention was killing arjun -_-

3.krishana himself announced that arjun is the best archer as he was the only one who was on the level of lord rama and parshurama.

and you're saying to me you believe in krishna's 'sayings' even after reading mahabharat? we all know ekalavya was even better archer than arjun.

4.karan was physicaly much more stronger than arjun but arjun was more skilled in every astra - shastra

that thing is your assumption.

1.heavy weapons were not gifted to arjun he earned them by doing meditation for 13 years..kavach and kundal were not given as gift it was given to protect karan when he was abandoned by kunti in river

2.you dick read mahabharat it is written very clearly "karan possessed all qualitys of pandava but on a lesser level"

• he was strong but not as strong as bheem
• he was satyavadhi(truthfull), dharmi(religious) and fair but not as much as yudhisthir
• he was handsome but not as much like nakul
• he had special connecton with animals but not as much as sahadev
• finally great archer but not as good as arjun

3.eklavya was not better than arjun he was a quick learner but it does't mean he was better than arjun

karan knew he cant defeat arjun in straight fight that's why he was so so dependent on vasvi shakti and then nagastra .....he was such a coward that he killed a 14 yrs old kid to take his revenge who was at that time fully unarmed and was fighting with multiple maharthi who were fully armed ...... that was illegal as well .

in short how could someone be called better warrior when that person was not even having any honour.......

@vasu12360:

1.heavy weapons were not gifted to arjun he earned them by doing meditation for 13 years..kavach and kundal were not given as gift it was given to protect karan when he was abandoned by kunti in river

that's still his birth gift..lol

you dick read mahabharat it is written very clearly "karan possessed all qualitys of pandava but on a lesser level"

mind your lang

and we can see he was a better warrior than arjun

3.eklavya was not better than arjun he was a quick learner but it does't mean he was better than arjun

ohh really.. then do tell me why drona made him cut off his thumb of his pulling hand?

in short how could someone be called better warrior when that person was not even having any honour.......

ohh right.. arjun showed real honour in killing an unarmed man... down on his knees trying to lift the wheel of his chariot from hole... real honour..

stop bullsh*t man.. i see no real honour in mahabharat except yudhisthir and bhishma.

@vasu12360:

you people dont even know what actually happend in mahabharat.

A very interesting theory.

listen to my points carefully

1.the bow given to karan by pashuraam was not an ordinary bow ..it was said that anyone possesing thar bow coudn't be defeated thats why krishana said that you wont get another chance to kill him as karan was far away from his bow

True: Karna's 'Vijay' was handed to him by Parashuram and created by Vishwakarma. But that doesn't mean he had the superior bow - Arjuna himself received the Gandiv Bow - created by Brahma himself. If anything Gandiv is more famous than Vijay.

2.about his kavach and kundal..it is specified that kavach and kundal were not a part of karan but was a part of suryanarayan and as we all know all gods and demigods are immortal thus using these things was like using a power of a demigod and as we can see it was not a fight between demigods thus was not legal.

Not legal? He was born with the gifts, he didn't steal them from anyone.

And just to be clear - you're conceding that Arjun will lose if Karna is not tricked out of his gifts?

3.arjun pleged not to use his two most powerful weapon i.e bhramshira(4Xbramastra) and the most fearsome astra of shiva the "pashupastar" as these weapon would 't have only vanished karan but the whole universe with him thus ....in one way he didn't even used his full potential ...that's what makes him better than karan who willingly used nagasta with was at that time fused with "aswasena" the naag raj which was illegal just to prove himself superior to arjun where as arjun only focused to be "uttam" that's why he didn't used his most powerful weapon .....but of course as we say no one can deny destiny thus he defeated karna one way or another ...

As far as I can recall, Karna, along with Bhishma, Drona, Parashurama also knew it. Ashwatthama even used it on Parikshit.

1.why karan was so eager to save his vasvi shakti ?didn't he trusted his skills.

You literally admitted that Karna was invincible with the bow. He even beat Arjun on the sixteenth day before the battle stopped of nightfall.

And Shakti was one sure-kill technique he was reserving specifically for the only brother he vowed to kill - and gained by losing his greatest advantage. Why would he not be eager to save it, exactly?

2.not only that he even used nagastra knowing that arjun will not counter it due to his promise to his father to protect snakes as naagraj was a good friend of indra.

And Nagastra was countered by superior driving skills of a certain someone - you know who it is. Plus, Kunti asked Karna not to use Nagastra more than once, and he kept that promise, too. iirc.

3.krishana himself announced that arjun is the best archer as he was the only one who was on the level of lord rama and parshurama.

And Krishna himself stated that Karna was a match for Arjun, if not actually superior.

"Hear in brief, O son of Pandu! I regard the mighty car-warrior Karna as thy equal, or perhaps, thy superior! In energy he is equal to Agni. As regards speed, he is equal to the impetuosity of the wind. In wrath, he resembles the Destroyer himself."

- Quote from book 8 - Karna Parva. You can check the original book if you have it.

4.karan was physicaly much more stronger than arjun but arjun was more skilled in every astra - shastra.

When has it ever been implied that Arjun is more skilled than Karna? You cannot possibly suggested Karna, the man who conducted Digvijay on all sides - something that took four Pandavas including Arjun to achieve, took out Jarasandha in Malla-yudh in minutes (remember Bheema, the one most skilled in that area needed days to win) and stalemated Rukmi for days is less skilled than Arjun. Heck, even with the wheel stuck on ground, he managed to stun Arjun with an arrow. That's skill.

You are also forgetting the sheer handicaps he had in the fight. He had Krishnabacking him for heaven's sakes. What more does anyone even need?

@princearagorn1:

nicely done :D

Thanks :)

@ssj_god:

i m sorry for my language but you were pissing me of

1.no it wasn't a gift it was a part of sungod itself thus was indestructable.......and indra king of god could have given arjun much better gift as he is the king of gods but didn't it was againt rule to give something which cam make you immortal as even bhrama dev is not allowed to make someone immortal

2.dronacharya made eklavya cut his thumb as eklavya belonged to nishadra trible a tible who were enemy of hastinapur thus he couldn't let him use his knowlege against hastinapur

3.about arjun's honour "karan was using vijay bow a forbidden bow ,was an adharmi, blind in hatered to kill his own brother" and karan showed no mercy while killing unarmed abhimanu a fourteen year old kid or while kunti was getting molested ..after karans death it was arjun who took care and became mentor of karan son despite what karan did with with his son abhimanu

@vasu12360:

1.no it wasn't a gift it was a part of sungod itself thus was indestructable.......and indra king of god could have given arjun much better gift as he is the king of gods but didn't it was againt rule to give something which cam make you immortal as even bhrama dev is not allowed to make someone immortal

it was karna's birth gift.. your missing the point that karna is the son of the sun god.. it is natural he'd have birth gift of the sun god.

2.dronacharya made eklavya cut his thumb as eklavya belonged to nishadra trible a tible who were enemy of hastinapur thus he couldn't let him use his knowlege against hastinapur

dronacharya made him cut off his thumb, because he made a promise that he'll make arjun the best archer there is.. and he saw eklavya was better archer than arjun.

3.about arjun's honour "karan was using vijay bow a forbidden bow ,was an adharmi, blind in hatered to kill his own brother" and karan showed no mercy while killing unarmed abhimanu a fourteen year old kid or while kunti was getting molested ..after karans death it was arjun who took care and became mentor of karan son despite what karan did with with his son abhimanu

that is not an excuse of arjun not showing honour there.. karna was a more honourary man than arjun... i'm just gonna quote your own words here.

"karan possessed all qualitys of pandava but on a lesser level"

• he was satyavadhi(truthfull), dharmi(religious) and fair but not as much as yudhisthir

he was much closer to yudhisthir in that area... this alone says he's more honourary than arjun.

and i'm gonna go off to bed now..

i entrust @princearagorn1 with this :D

@princearagorn1:

1. gandiv was a great bow yet it wasn't blessed with victory boon

2.kavach and kundal weren't a gift it was a part of sungod itself thus was indestructable.......and indra king of god could have given arjun much better gift as he is the king of gods but didn't it was againt rule to give something which cam make you immortal as even bhrama dev is not allowed to make someone immortal

3.pashupastra was a weapon which can be only obtained directly from shiva.....no one except arjun had pashupastra....karan,drona,bhishma and aswathama were having knowledge of bhramshira not pashupastra

4. And about "Nagastra was countered by superior driving skills of a certain someone - you know who it is. Plus, Kunti asked Karna not to use Nagastra more than once, and he kept that promise, too. iirc" it was a tit for tat by krishana and divine weapons cannot be invoked anytime you want once used you need to meditate from begining to reuse it thats why in ramayan meghnath used it only once

5."Hear in brief, O son of Pandu! I regard the mighty car-warrior Karna as thy equal, or perhaps, thy superior! In energy he is equal to Agni. As regards speed, he is equal to the impetuosity of the wind. In wrath, he resembles the Destroyer himself".

it is a bad translation of actual mahabharat written in sanskrit

6.as i said he had all skilles of all pandavs but will lesser level

go and real sanskrit text or atleast hindi one

@vasu12360:

1. gandiv was a great bow yet it wasn't blessed with victory boon.

What victory boon?

2.kavach and kundal weren't a gift it was a part of sungod itself thus was indestructable.......and indra king of god could have given arjun much better gift as he is the king of gods but didn't it was againt rule to give something which cam make you immortal as even bhrama dev is not allowed to make someone immortal

He was born with them. And karna was not immortal with them to begin with. He could age and die.

3.pashupastra was a weapon which can be only obtained directly from shiva.....no one except arjun had pashupastra....karan,drona,bhishma and aswathama were having knowledge of bhramshira not pashupastra

Using Pashupatastra against a mortal will destroy all creation - and Arjun with it. That's not even a valid tactic to start with. If you say he could have stalemated by committing suicide, that's fine.

it was a tit for tat by krishana

Implying without a better Charioteer, the match was over right there.

and divine weapons cannot be invoked anytime you want once used you need to meditate from begining to reuse it thats why in ramayan meghnath used it only once.

Doesn't mean he couldn't use them more than once at all.

it is a bad translation of actual mahabharat written in sanskrit

Post the original translation then. I actually said you can go and check the original book if you want - it is mentioned in most books I have read. Until you can prove otherwise, the translation stands.

as i said he had all skilles of all pandavs but will lesser level

Can you provide proof that his skills were 'on a lesser level'? His showings are certainly better than theirs.

go and real sanskrit text or atleast hindi one

I did, actually. I loved it as a kid, so took it as a subject to write a paper on. Your turn.

You are still ignoring the number of handicaps that had to be placed on Karna so Arjun could win. The answer is pretty clear.

@ssj_god:

1. how was he more hounarable than arjun he tricked his guru parshuram,he tricked and killed his son in law,he called his sister in law a whore and even tried to nacked her in whole sabha,was so eager to kill his younger brother,was a misguiding friend where as arjun is defined as very polite and forgiving by krishana

2."it was karna's birth gift.. your missing the point that karna is the son of the sun god.. it is natural he'd have birth gift of the sun god"

arjun was son of indra as well all pandavs were son of prominent devta but non of them were given such giftes as it was not legal for anyone

3."dronacharya made him cut off his thumb, because he made a promise that he'll make arjun the best archer there is.. and he saw eklavya was better archer than arjun"

this is a miss conception ... if you want to say he loved arjun much thats why he did it then i would say he loved aswasthama the most so he would have cut thumb of every great archer to prove aswasthama the best.

4.he was no way better than yudhishthhir in his area proofs are given in my first point

@vasu12360:

it was said that who ever possessing vijay bow couldn't be defeated till he is holding it in his hands

It was only said about Karna.

actually he was immortal with them as even yamraj couldn't use his power against the kavach

He was aging just fine.

well karan was ready to use bhramshira which had similar effect

Where did he use it? He was trying to use Brahmastra, which he was cursed into forgetting, and can be blocked without killing everyone.

Also, can you post citation that it can cause similar effects as Pashupat in the first place?

we always need a cheater to win against a cheater thats what karan was

So basically - Arjun loses pretty solidly against Karna if no cheating is involved. Which is what was originally said by us.

as i said divine weapons can be reinvoked but need long time meditation to regain themif he would havestarted meditation right there arjun would have killed him 10000000000s time till then

Really? He had entire night to himself to meditate. And if it was as you are saying, they Kunti would not need to ask him not to use it more than once in the first place.

i will send the scans tomorrow i will have to find them

Fine. Till then, the quote stands.

how was he better in there ability considering arjun vs karan in archery debatable lets start with some other pandav whomever you want but 2morro going to sleep

Sure.

@vasu12360:

1. how was he more hounarable than arjun he tricked his guru parshuram,he tricked and killed his son in law,he called his sister in law a whore and even tried to nacked her in whole sabha,was so eager to kill his younger brother,was a misguiding friend where as arjun is defined as very polite and forgiving by krishana

for the draupadi case.. karna was not a main part of it.. he was just being with kauravs (which makes him part of the sin though),

arjun was also eager to kill him.....

"was a misguiding friend where as arjun is defined as very polite and forgiving by krishana"... this part is just your opinion

arjun was son of indra as well all pandavs were son of prominent devta but non of them were given such giftes as it was not legal for anyone

not legal for anyone... and by which law it isn't legal, and where is it written?

this is a miss conception ... if you want to say he loved arjun much thats why he did it then i would say he loved aswasthama the most so he would have cut thumb of every great archer to prove aswasthama the best.

that was not for love.. he saw a great archer in arjun, and he made a promise that he'll make arjun the best archer.... it was to keep his promise... and eklavya wasn't his direct disciple either... in real case.. he learned all of his skills by himself.. without a master.

4.he was no way better than yudhishthhir in his area proofs are given in my first point

i did not said he was better than yudhisthir did i?... i just quoted your own writing where you said he was almost as good as yudhisthir in that area..... that makes him more honourary than arjun............. are you saying what you said first was not true?

now for some sayings for what you said to @princearagorn1

it was said that who ever possessing vijay bow couldn't be defeated till he is holding it in his hands

he earned vijay bow for his dedication...... and you think that is cheating... yeah sure..

well karan was ready to use bhramshira which had similar effect

your point?.. it would've ended in a suicidal stalemate too.. so?

we always need a cheater to win against a cheater thats what karan was

cheater?... in a war?... lmao.. i don't see what he cheated.. he was tricked off from his birth gift... was tricked off using his best weapon which he was storing for arjun.... was cursed to forget weapons at the right moment.. and was cursed to have the wheel of his chariot stuck at the needing moment... where you see cheating here?.... where as.. i do see cheating in krishna's trickery... anyway.. we all know how krishna is... so no point in debating this.

as i said divine weapons can be reinvoked but need long time meditation to regain themif he would havestarted meditation right there arjun would have killed him 10000000000s time till then

you're saying as if the moment he used it, just after that he fought with arjun..... he fought with arjun later days... he had plenty of time to meditate (even though i'm pretty sure it doesn't need the meditation time your implying.. because he did not knew he have to use it on ghatotkach.. he had to use it mid battle)

i will send the scans tomorrow i will have to find them

sure do.. i'm pretty sure i've read that in devanagari too

how was he better in there ability considering arjun vs karan in archery debatable lets start with some other pandav whomever you want but 2morro going to sleep

if he's not 'better'.. then how's he any 'lesser'? .. as you said.. he was always showed to be equal to arjun in archery... you're just mixing your own opinions into that.