Karate Kid vs Pre-New-52 Lady Shiva (read OP)

Lady Shiva vs Karate Kid

I know that K.K keeps up with kryptonian level beings on a daily basis...and sometimes he even toys with them, so i try to make this fair.

To help close the gap between them, Lady Shiva's overall stats here, are amped 10.000 times each...she's 10.000 times faster, 10.000 times stronger, 10.000 times more agile, and 10.000 times more durable, than she normally is.

Is the best fighter in the world amped 10.000 times, enough to beat the best fighter of all times?

Rules:

Both In character

Only Hand-to-Hand...no weapons...standard gear for both.

The fight takes place inside of a japanese dojo.

Who wins and why?

Personally I still feel karate kid blitzes her. Even amped 1000X I doubt shiva could react at light speed. Karate kid can.....

Let's try this:

@jashro44@monsterstomp@dondave@pokeysteve@cable extreme@entropy_aegis@beatboks1@juiceboks@reaverlation@frozen@saren@wolverine08@laflux

Yeah, well, we know that Shiva is fast enough to keep up with Cassandra Cain, who is crazy fast...i mean 1000x should at least, give her a shot ;)

@bluebeetle1: Lmao!

@bat_girl_cc: I don't think Cass is 1/1000th the speed of light. Cass is insanely fast but shes not quite that fast.

1000X isn't enough. Shiva gets spitestomped.

@night4345: @frozen: @jashro44:

Ok, i'm going to edit the thread, now Shiva's overall stats, are amped 10.000 times!

@bat_girl_cc: I still think karate kid wins. Lightning moves at mach 14,000. Assuming shiva can react at speed of mach 5 (I don't believe she is that fast), she still wouldn't have the speed to keep up if her speed was multiplied by 10,000.

Ok, do you think that it would be more even if i amped her overall stats 15.000 times?

@bat_girl_cc: No. If your trying to equalize stats I would just say equalized stats in the OP.

All though raw skill is kind of tricky to compare. Karate kid only really has fought batman in terms of fights with martial artists, the first fight he was fanboying, the second one he wasn't at his peak. I guess in the second fight batman said karate kid was more skilled than him. I think it would depend on how shivas skill is compared to Bruces.

One shot!

But thei're stats are already equalized...they are both peak-humans...and as far as i know it's K.K's superior skill, that allows him, to do what he does...so i though about amping Shiva's stats, to help closing the skill gap.

Personally I think its best if we just don't think of karate kid dancing around kryptonians due to speed but due to skill. It just makes more sense that way.

@jashro44:

Lady Shiva is more skilled than Batman IMO, not a big gap difference, but based on their showings against other crazy skilled characters, such as Bronze Tiger, Connor Hawke, Richard Dragon, etc, i'd say that there's a difference, small yes, but it exist's, nonetheless.

* Edit *

Also, Hand-to-Hand, in their sparring sessions, Batman couldn't even touch Cass...while Shiva always keep up with her.

I personally view them as roughly equals. Shiva is more ruthless, faster, and has her body reading. Batman is stronger, tougher and smarter. I think a fight between the 2 is a toss up.

It is a toss-up between the 2, and that's why most of their encounter's ended up in stallemate, Shiva is a bit more skilled, though.

But, that's the problema here...you got someone who can do impossible stuff regularly...vs a peak-human crazy skilled woman...that's why i thought about amping Shiva's stats.

And i don't take Batman's stallemates against Karate Kid seriously...K.K's feat-wise, super-human showings are very consistent...2 stallemates against Batman, have to been seen as being PIS/WIS...if not, then we would have to belive that Batman could do the same crazy stuff, that K.K does...which he know that it's not true.

@bat_girl_cc: Yea thats why its hard to compare karate kids raw technique to other top tier fighters. Technically he is using his "skill" to amp his stats basically.

So, 20.000 times, amped Shiva? xD

@bat_girl_cc: Still Karate kid :p

Karate kid the guy is just that good.

Val

Karate Kid is overrated. Batman stalemated him twice. Batman has never beaten Shiva who isn't actually the best fighter in the world. With her stats amped 10x she should wreck Karate Kid.

He's never actually hurt a Kryptonian and has no fighting feats to put him above normal stat Shiva. If their stats were equal it'd be a great fight.

So, you think that even if Shiva was only amped 10x here, that would be enough to beat K.K? interesting...

KK still wins rather easily due to greater speed/reaction by a large margin.

Shiva is a bullet timer so 300m/s increased stats by 10.000 still places her at 3,000,000 m/s. KK reacts to speeds greater than light which is 299 792 458. Shiva would still only be 1% the speed and reaction of KK..

In one battle he reacted to a blitzing Mon-el and by sheer deflection of his strike sent him light years away in seconds.

Gallery

WTF I loaded 8 scans and only two appear

When Batman can cut off Kryptonian level people's arms, sent full grown Micro Lad flying out a building, and knock off all the snow and ice off the Sidney Opera House in one shot without damaging the building then we can talk. That's Threeboot Karate Kid.

Post-Zero Hour has lightspeed reaction times, knocks down forcefields made to hold supercriminals by finding weakpoints, takes down 30 criminals with superpowers at once, one-shotted Emerald Empress (someone with the knowledge to kill 100 species in a 1000 different ways) after tracking her by heartbeat a kilometer away, defeated Mon-El in a spar, and defeated Nadir (who's broke Ferro Lad's body with his bare hands) despite being out of practice.

Bruce being able to stalemate him (He didn't, he got one hit on him while Val was dying and Black Lightning knocked KK out.) is PIS.

Batman lasting even a second against KK is pure and utter PIS. The guy has shattered diamonds with a karate chop. Put his fist through future armored tanks that just panels before withstood plasters. has leveled a mountain, stopped an earth quake with a punch and a kick and shattered a meteor.

All that aside in the so called "two battles" one he was partially brain washed and had lost part of his memory and another he was preparing to sacrifice himself for the greater good and intending to die.

Show me a single instance of Shiva using a throw to turn an attack at light speed into that opponent ending up light years away in a second ^ ^

or anything close to this

Gallery

The fourth, fifth and sixth LAST scans in that set are KK fighting and HURTING nemisis kid, who is BTW a Kryptonian. He also get's the crap beaten out of him, but he gets his licks in too. (NK is not the type to ever hold back and stomped Supes and Mon-el).

Oh and as for speed. here he is reacting to the Tornado Twins ( Barry Allen's kids)

And here is a non PIS battle with Bat's with Val toying with him

It makes perfect and utter sense that a guy who couldn't even lay a glove on him once but, successfully only blocked a single blow, who's uniform was in tatters while KK's wasn't even damaged in the least, and could be stripped casually of his weapons would be able to beat the same guy in another two fights.

Any fight with batman beating KK is fan fiction writing.

Batman has one-shotted Lady Shiva in the Public Enemies story ac.

If you are willing to accept bad writing PIS such as Batman stalemating Karate Kid then you must accept the fact that Batman has also one-shotted Lady Shiva, making much easier work of her.

Val's the best fighter in the DC Universe; he's mastered every martial art form in the Galaxy so in terms of his feats, he has more than enough feats to be put far, far above Shiva. The only character in DCU that possible exceeds Val is Batman One Million.

So Batman beating a mindcontrolled Shiva should be counted? By that logic we should say Elektra would beat Wolverine since she owned him in a arc where he was mindcontrolled.

@zhurong: he was showing an example of PIS fight with Shiva since a PIS Fightnwith bats is being used to low ball KK. We were supposed to accept Bruce beating a mind wiped Val, what's the difference.

@beatboks1: Nobody being mentioned should even be able to compete with Val so it doesn't matter to me.

KK stomps

I do.

I assume you're referring to Equus who is as much Kryptonian level as Metallo. We don't know how he got Micro Lad out of the building. Could have used his own momentum against him. The Opera House incident doesn't translate into a fist fight.

What story was the 30 super criminals fight in? That sounds like a legit feat.

They both landed multiple hits on each other. Don't know where you're getting one from.

@beatboks1:

Cassandra Cain has similar feats. One shotting a giant monster. Dodging gunfire after the trigger pull. Dodging Supergirl's attacks. By your logic any base human touching her should be PIS too right? You seem pretty well versed on KK. Can you tell me what post crisis instance makes his pre crisis stuff still canon? I missed something somewhere.

Lady Shiva is not the best fighter in the world?...how so?...are you basing your opinion on what Prometheus said, about she being the number 3 in the world?...every story arc on which Prometheus was involved, there were always plot-holes...aparently someone using his helmet can solo de JLA and oneshot Shiva in 3 seconds...but then, as a hard time against Huntress and Lady Black Hawke...in another ocasions, has a hard time against Green Arrow...who if i'm not mistaked, ended up killing Prometheus...Prometheus should be unbeatable, based on what we know about him...the guy has a helmet that gives him the martial arts prowess of the 30 best fighters in the world...but everytime that he shows up, there's always stuff that doesn't make sense.

Personally, i base my opinion, on the characters showings, and apart from Karate Kid, who is from the future...the Sensei, and Sa'ar the ageless one, 2 guys that almost no-one knows, and that almost never appear, (Sa'ar only appeared in one issue) no-one is better than Lady Shiva...the ones that come closer are Batman, Bronze Tiger, Connor Hawke, and Richard Dragon...but Lady Shiva has overall better Hand-to-Hand showings than all of them, and she has also defeated almost all of them, 1-on-1...the best that all of them have ever done so far, was giving her a good fight, before losing...Batman has come the closest from beating her, since he was able to actually, stallemate her...twice!...but i still see Richard Dragon as being above him in Hand-to-Hand...Bronze Tiger is not, at least, not in recent times...not sure about Connor Hawke, though.

@bat_girl_cc: Even if Lady Shiva was amped 1,000,000x she's not fast enough to compete with a person with FTL reactions.

Yeah, seems like the majority thinks that K.K wins either way...well, we don't lose anything in trying ;)

karate kid

Cass beat her twice and the second time was rather easily. Cass also has feats similar to KK in ridiculousness. Prometheus is like DC's Taskmaster and it's hard to take him seriously with all his inconsistencies. To me, number of styles doesn't = dominance. BT, Richard Dragon and Connor's canon feats confuse me. I'm not sure what is legit and what isn't. Assuming everything is than Connor definitely belongs in the same conversation as the others. And if number of appearances doesn't factor in than White Canary's utter stompage of Black Canary should put her here somewhere too.

I'm interested in your opinion on DC's top fighters. Hopefully we don't derail your thread too badly haha.

Feat-wise, most peak-humans are "normal" all the time, and crazy 2 or 3 days per week.

Cass is crazy all the time, but she's only insane 2 or 3 days a week.

Karate Kid is insane all the time!

" Prometheus is like DC's Taskmaster and it's hard to take him seriously with all his inconsistencies. To me, number of styles doesn't = dominance. "

I don't think i know enough about Taskmaster, to adress your claim :p

I agree with the rest...as for the number of styles don't = dominance, well, that's debatable...i've herad experts saying that it does, and other experts saying that it doesn't...a case can be made, for either.

" BT, Richard Dragon and Connor's canon feats confuse me. I'm not sure what is legit and what isn't. "

Honestly i don't know either...because that's stuff that is retconed, retconed the retcon, than retconed again...well, i like to acknowledge all of their showings, because they are so few, that if we ignore them, then, we got nothing, lol...also, neither of their feats seem like PIS/WIS to me, so, i don't see any reason to ignore them.

" Assuming everything is than Connor definitely belongs in the same conversation as the others. "

Agreed.

" And if number of appearances doesn't factor in than White Canary's utter stompage of Black Canary should put her here somewhere too. "

Utter stompage of Black Canary + Huntress, together at the same time!...honestly, i'd like to, but that whole Brother's in Silk arc, felt messy...the 11 brothers in Silk were "supposedly" around Lady Shiva in skill, and they were getting beaten up by Wildcat, Catman, and others that aren't even top 30...and then, we have Black Canary that some times can't do anything to White Canary, even with Huntress helping her...and another times, gives her a good fight on her own...and of course, let's not forget Huntress tanking 1.000 hits from Lady Shiva, at some point during the fight, telling her that she hits like a girl, then proceeded to tank another 1.000 hits, and finally takes her down...LOL.

Oh! and White Canary, who basically made everyone else that appeared in that arc, look like crap, got surprised when Huntress toke down Shiva.

" I'm interested in your opinion on DC's top fighters. Hopefully we don't derail your thread too badly haha. "

This is my Top 10:

1) Karate Kid

2) Sa'ar

3) Sensei

4) Cassandra Cain (With her Body Reading)

5) Lady Shiva

6) Richard Dragon

7) Connor Hawke

8) Batman

9) Bronze Tiger (It may seem strange to see him, at 9 on my list, but the thing is, he hasn't done anything "top tier" recently)

10) The First Question Vic Sage

The first 3 are a lock, the others are closer between them.

* Edit *

I just checked, Catman wasn't there, that's my bad, but still Wildcat and Huntress fighting them tells me, that they weren't at Shiva's level.

@bat_girl_cc: You forgot Batman One Million. He's second to Karate Kid (though it was said he's above him) and would stomp either Cass or Shiva.

There's also the time Batman fought the living embodiment of martial-arts so she could be number one.

Hand-to-Hand-wise, Batman 1 mil is pretty much featless...his only H2H feat, was one-shoting Batman while they were talking to each other, and Bruce wasn't even looking at him...by reputation, i could also put the O-sensei here, i didn't because he has no feats xd

As for other potencial Top Tiers, yeah, there's lot's of them...for instances Drakon, and Cricket could speed-Blitz most of my list, but i chose to not includ them, due to them relying more on speed, then on actual speed...there's also Judith, that has gave trouble to Batman, Bronze Tiger and Richard Dragon...Sonia (Judomaster), Renee Montoya, and many others...

@bat_girl_cc: The implication is that Batman One Million surpassed Karate Kid because he fought in the 853rd Century; whereas Val fought in the 31st Century, thus Batman One Million's statement of surpassing Val makes sense. He was written to be far above standard Batman tier anyways.

yeah, but in my opinion he lacks the necessary Hand-to-Hand showings...and yeah, i know that he's capable of performing meta-human feats...but we are talking about skill, not overall stats, i think that it would have been better for him, if he stomped Batman in a actual fight, than one-shot him, while he wasn't even paying attention...Talia oneshotted Lady Shiva from being with a chair, and she isn't considered top tier H2H xd