Kar Vastor vs Darth Maul

VS

Conditions

• Standard equipment
• Morals on
• Battle takes place on Haruun Kal, the "arena" where Vastor found Windu
• Neither is seeking to kill the other. Vastor intends on making Maul a member of his akk guard, and Maul wants to take on Vastor as his new apprentice
• Start twenty feet apart

Who wins?

@shootingnova@i_like_swords@wollfmyth209@zapan87@dccomicsrule2011@burnface@erkan12@thevivas

I think Vastor might win this.

Feats for Vastor?

@dccomicsrule2011:

Here's a respect thread:

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/star-wars-kar-vastor-1723127/

@brightsteel:

Aight 'G. I'll give it a look and form my opinion afterwards.

Hand to Hand probably could go either way.

All out probably to Maul.

Kar Vastor IMO.

Mace Windu thought he could never beat Kar Vastor iirc.

Maul shouldn't fare any better.

@dxc: Meh, that's bullshit actually.

@brightsteel:

Why?

Not sure what he means by that either:

Stover, Matthew Woodring. Star Wars, Shatterpoint. Del Rey, 2003. Print.

Going by his fight with Windu and statements that went along with it, I can see Kar winning.

@silentbat: Mace's statements aren't always accurate; and he's quite a humble guy. Not to mention he did give Vastor a decent enough fight despite the circumstances your quote noted:

...he was exhausted, badly wounded, and heartsick.

Source: Shatterpoint

On topic: Maul.

@wollfmyth209: This sequence was not in first person (though a third of the book is) so the argument of this being statements from Mace is not correct. These are objective third person *omniscient* statements from the author.

And you seem to skip over the bit about Mace not being able to win such a battle against Vastor even on his best day.

And I'm not sure where this idea of Mace being humble comes from. He's quite a confident guy, and knows of his power.

"This is called Vaapad, Kar." A fierce light burned in Mace's eyes. "How many arms do you see?"

"Do not assume, however, that we are equals. We are not."

"You can't think these droids can stop me."

"You are well versed in the Jedi ways, but you are no Jedi."

"This party's over."

An imperial agent likens Mace to arguing like a child with Anakin.

I don't know ... these don't seem like things humble men would say.

“Ohhh. Great warrior. Wars not make one great.” That seems more like a mark of humility.

@silentbat:

This sequence was not in first person (though a third of the book is) so the argument of this being statements from Mace is not correct. These are objective third person limited statements from the author.

It is Mace's opinion. Right before your quote it speaks of Mace's intention and thoughts:

"Mace could have met him, blade to shield, but instead he slipped aside. He had no intention of fighting this man. Not here and now. Not anywhere. Not ever."

It's just like Bane's fight with Kas'im. It's the narrative that tells us that Kas'im might've been the greatest in the galaxy, and possibly the greatest ever, but it's all from Bane's thought-line. It's still a subjective opinion. And Mace is pretty humble when comparing himself to others; he's suggested that Kenobi and Depa rival/surpass him, and noted that Skywalker might be the greatest Jedi of that day, and said he's just a padawan in comparison to Yoda once. The one time he seems to boast is when he's fighting Dooku or Asajj, and that might just be Dun Moch or a way to undermine his enemies or cause them to surrender.

I also wonder why Vastor is getting a match against Maul, if some people seriously think that Vastor is at the same league with Mace Windu or even more powerful. Which is nonsense, either way the purpose of this thread is that wank Vastor or lowball Maul. I don't like it either way.

George Lucas stated that Mace can be a challenge to the Emperor, and that's the end of it. Vastor is no where near that powerful, and he would get speedblitz if Mace get his lightsaber.

Standing toe to toe, the top of Mace's head barely came to the level of Vastor's chin, and you could have tucked Mace's whole thick-muscled upper body inside Vastor's chest with room to spare. And even hurt, lurching drunkenly, Vaster still could whip his arms in blindingly fast raking slaps at Mace's head and wounded neck. But where Vastor's speed was blinding, Mace's was invisible. Not one of those slaps connected.

Before Vastor could even focus his eyes, Mace had hit him six times: two thundering hooks to his short ribs, a knee slamming hard into the same thigh he'd hit before, an elbow snapping up to the point of his chin, and two devastating palm strikes to either hinge of his jaw.

Vastor's mighty arms spasmed and dropped limply to his sides. "This is called Vaapad, Kar." A fierce light burned in Mace's eyes. "How many arms do you see?"

--- Taken from ;Shatterpoint

Maul should give the same speedblitz treatment to Vastor.

That is still a objective third person *omniscient* statement.

And Mace is pretty humble when comparing himself to others; he's suggested that Kenobi and Depa rival/surpass him, and noted that Skywalker might be the greatest Jedi of that day, and said he's just a padawan in comparison to Yoda once. The one time he seems to boast is when he's fighting Dooku or Asajj, and that might just be Dun Moch or a way to undermine his enemies or cause them to surrender.

You are having a confirmation bias. Your mentality is that Mace is humble so anything that might suggest it, without it explicitly suggesting it, makes it so. Saying a Jedi like Kenobi or Billaba surpassed his skill in some specific way does not intel humility. Mace said Kenobi was best suited against Grievous, and of Billaba he said her technical skill with a blade surpassed his own. Mace knew where his power lied, and it was the reflection of the dark side without it actually corrupting him. Great warriors were great because they knew their strength and weaknesses, and knew how to utilize said strength and mitigate their weaknesses. Acknowledgement is not humility. And as I stated previously, there are sequences where Mace showcases a lack of humility. He's not Yoda, he's a BAMF.

@silentbat:

That is still a objective third person limited statement.

From Mace's thought-line, yes.

You are having a confirmation bias. Your mentality is that Mace is humble so anything that might suggest it, without it explicitly suggesting it, makes it so.

That's not the case here. Mace has always given his Jedi contemporaries more credit than they are due, as per the examples I've set above. Actually, I'll rephrase that: He doesn't give them more credit than they are due, he doesn't give himself enough credit in comparison to them.

Saying a Jedi like Kenobi or Billaba surpassed his skill in some specific way does not intel humility.

Sorta does.

Mace said Kenobi was best suited against Grievous,

He also outright questions if he's as skilled as Kenobi when he asks: Who is greater? The creator of the killing form, or the master of the traditional form? Or something along those lines.

and of Billaba he said her technical skill with a blade surpassed his own.

Which it honestly doesn't.

Mace knew where his power lied, and it was the reflection of the dark side without it actually corrupting him. Great warriors were great because they knew their strength and weaknesses, and knew how to utilize said strength and mitigate their weaknesses.

Mace did know where his power lies, it's just that in-general, most of the time when he compares himself to others, he sells himself too short.

Acknowledgement is not humility. And as I stated previously, there are sequences where Mace showcases a lack of humility.

It's just, in these acknowledgements, Mace isn't protraying himself the best he could. He's obviously better than Kenobi or Billaba or Bulq(not by much, but he is), but he doesn't seem to think so.

And those instances are against Asajj and... Asajj. This party's over and Do you think droids can stop me? doesn't seem quite so boastful.

He's not Yoda, he's a BAMF.

LOL.

Much of Kar Vastor's power had to due with the immense connection he had with his home planet and the jungles themselves. If this fight were to occur on Haruun Kal, he'd likely tear Maul's throat out with his teeth. If it takes place on some other world with a neutral force nexus, I'm more inclined to say Maul. Maul would still wish he were as cool as Kar Vastor though

Maul

Maul, good to great fight.

Vastor

Maul claps.

Maul isn't stupid enough to fight Kar by "jungle rules". Kar is definitively more powerful with the nexus due to his attunement to it, but Maul has a lightsaber which will enable him to ignore Kar's healing factor.

Kar's superiority to Mace was based upon Mace's ridiculous number of levels of restraint and the immensely powerful nexus that Mace has to explicitly hinder himself to avoid giving into and becoming like Depa, which Kar is described as one with. It's made very clear that the moment Mace stops playing by "jungle rules", even with that restraint, that he can stomp Kar:

'On the contrary," Mace said slowly. "Jedi rules."

What are Jedi rules'?

'You don't need to know," Mace told him. "You're not a Jedi."

Vibroshields whined to life.

I am waiting for you, Jedi of the Windu.

Mace extended a hand, and his lightsaber found it. He stood, waiting.

'You fear to attack me.

'Jedi do not fear," Mace said. "And we do not attack. As long as you stand in peace, so do I. You have just learned two of the Jedi rules. For what little good they will do you. You haven't been paying very close attention, Kar. And it's too late to start now. It's over."

Nothing is over! NOTHING. Not while we both live.

'This is another Jedi rule." Mace took a couple of steps to one side, to find a space of floor where he didn't have to fear tripping over a body. "If you fight a Jedi, you've already lost."

The dark shape came closer.

Fine words from a man I've beaten before.

'The starfighters have been ordered off. The city will stand. They've surrendered to the Republic. We have no reason to fight."

Men like us are our own reason.

Mace shook his head. "This isn't a big dog thing. If I must, I will hurt you. Badly."

You can't bluff me.

'No, but I can kill you. Though I would rather not."

More Jedi rules?

Mace sagged. "Do you have a move to make? I'm too tired for this."

Sleep when you're dead, Vaster snarled, and leaped. Ultrachrome flashed. Mace could have met him, blade to shields, but instead he slipped aside.

He had no intention of fighting this man. Not here and now. Not anywhere. Not ever.

Vastor was younger, stronger, faster, and immensely more powerful, and he wielded weapons that could not be harmed by the Jedi blade. Mace couldn't win such a battle on his best day, and this day was far from his best: he was exhausted, badly wounded, and heartsick.

But the fact that his lightsaber couldn't hurt those shields didn't make them invulnerable.

As Vastor gathered himself to spring again, Mace reached into the Force. The vibroshield stuck into the wall above Nick's head squealed against the bunker's armor as it came to life and pulled itself free and streaked like a missile toward Vastor's back.

Vastor's incredible reflexes whirled him, and those same reflexes snapped his shields in front of his chest in plenty of time to block-

But they didn't actually block anything.

There was a reason why, when Vastor's shields met to make that metallic howl, he always brought them together back-to-back, instead of edge-to-edge.

The flying shield's vibrating edge sheared through both Vastor's shields, through both his wrists, and buried itself in the bone of his chest, stopping less than a centimeter short of his heart.

Vastor blinked astonishment at Mace as though the Jedi Master had betrayed him.

Mace said, "You were warned."

Vastor's head shook weakly, suddenly palsied. He dropped to his knees.

You've killed me.

He sounded like he couldn't make himself believe it.

Once Mace uses the Force, even with those restraints, a lightsaber-sized hole in his gut, a crippled mental state from Depa's attempt at suicide, several broken and fractured bones, etc., he still one-shots Kar the moment he stops playing by his rules.

Maul can replicate this. It's just a question of whether he'll do this, or fight according to his ego.