#1 Edited by kotetsu454 (210 posts) - - Show Bio

Kakashi Hatake

VS

Scorpion

One round

Morals: irrelevant as both can willfully kill most/all opponents when needed.

Kakashi is at power level he is at of Fourth ninja war arc and has executioners blade (otherwise known as Kubikiribōchō)

Scorpion can not just instantly do a fatality though does have easy access as he normally would to abilities associated with them (summoning lava, fire, teleportation)

resource links (spoiler warning):

Kakashi

Scorpion

Also if this is a mismatch to a considerable degree or have done anything else wrong please let me know as this is the first fight topic, first topic in general I have posted.

#2 Posted by patrat18 (9813 posts) - - Show Bio

Scopion.

#3 Posted by onilordasmodeus (2545 posts) - - Show Bio

@kotetsu454: Very good match up!

IMO this is an extremely close match, but I have to give it to Scorpion just for the simple fact that he won't tire and run out of "chakra". Once this fight moves to the Netherrealm, it is all but over and done with.

#4 Posted by jashro44 (22266 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't see how scorpion wins. Admittedly my knowledge of mortal combat isn't that good but from what I do know scorpion has no defense against Kamui.

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#5 Edited by Juiceboks (9309 posts) - - Show Bio

@onilordasmodeus said:

@kotetsu454: Very good match up!

IMO this is an extremely close match, but I have to give it to Scorpion just for the simple fact that he won't tire and run out of "chakra". Once this fight moves to the Netherrealm, it is all but over and done with.

Kakashi decapitates him before he has a chance to do anything. He has a whole plethora of jutsus that Scorpion can't defend against. What does Kakashi running on chakra have to do with Scorpion outlasting him? There's no way Scorpion comes out on top here.

@jashro44 Kakashi doesn't even need Kamui or any high level technique to beat Scorpion.

#6 Posted by jashro44 (22266 posts) - - Show Bio

@juiceboks: I don't disagree. I was just trying to avoid a debate of stats and all that.

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#7 Posted by Juiceboks (9309 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 It wouldn't even have to come to that. Just list off jutsus that would decimate Scorpion like Double Suicide Decapitation, Lightning Cutter, Rasengan, Water Dragon Bullet etc.

#8 Posted by dondave (37990 posts) - - Show Bio

Kakashi

#9 Posted by dccomicsrule2011 (25198 posts) - - Show Bio

Kakashi SLAUGHTERHOUSE.

#10 Posted by darkbeam (2303 posts) - - Show Bio

The copycat ninja wins.

#11 Posted by onilordasmodeus (2545 posts) - - Show Bio

#

#

@onilordasmodeus said:

@kotetsu454: Very good match up!

IMO this is an extremely close match, but I have to give it to Scorpion just for the simple fact that he won't tire and run out of "chakra". Once this fight moves to the Netherrealm, it is all but over and done with.

Kakashi decapitates him before he has a chance to do anything. He has a whole plethora of jutsus that Scorpion can't defend against. What does Kakashi running on chakra have to do with Scorpion outlasting him? There's no way Scorpion comes out on top here.

@jashro44 Kakashi doesn't even need Kamui or any high level technique to beat Scorpion.

1) Scorpion's teleportation gives him a distinct advantage over Kakashi movement wise - that kind of goes without saying. You might want to point to Kakashi using the substitution jutsu, and say that is how fast he is to show a speed for him, but that wouldn't be accurate as that is more of a defensive move against on coming attacks that he can see, while Scorpion uses Teleportatation both for attacking and defending, and/or just regular movement.

Teleportation is Scorpion's biggest plus in this fight as he can produce after images in combat, and he needs no words or hand signals to do them. While Kakashi's Sharingan can keep up with Scorpion as he is teleporting around, whether or not he can keep it up while defending and attacking is the question at hand. Scorpion can also move through dimensions while using his teleportation techniques, and can transport people/objects through space to where ever he choose just by being in contact with them, or just by being in proximity. This is a skill that Kakashi cannot copy or stop, and it is one that Scorpion can use without pause.

2) Skill wise, while Kakashi is more versatile than Scorpion is in terms of range of abilities, Scorpion's speed, skill, durabilty, and his own versatility kind of make it a wash. Scorpion can match Kakashi in h2h and weapons combat (he is noted as one of the best fighters of Earth and the Netherrealm), and since he can take shots that would kill regular human, he can take more chances than Kakashi can off top.

3) Kakashi's Kamui, while potentially useful in this fight, might not have that much of an impact over all. The Kamui is a teleportation type jutsu that uses a lot of chakra to distorts space where ever Kakashi focuses. Scorpion however should be able to teleport out of that attack no issue as it wouldn't have any affect on whether or not Scorpion can still move or "distort Space" on his own. Kakashi also is limited in how much he can use that attack (especially if he is using all his other Sharigan abilites in conjunction), so that would be a last resort type move for him IMO.

#3 is really the reason i pointed out the chakra thing and the fact of Scorpion out lasting Kakashi as a big deal in this fight. Kakashi has limits on the skills he can perform back to back, while Scoprion can teleport all day long, setting the landscape on fire with Hellfire all willy-nilly like, and keep fighting at peak performance with no slowdown cause he doesn't tire. Add to that the fact that Scorpion WILL transport Kakashi to Hell if he needs to, and in Hell Scorpion gets a power boost as he is constantly being powered up by the atmosphere of that realm.

The bottom line is that as Kakashi does anything in this fight that involves his Sharingan or any chakra at all - i.e. trying to use his Kamui, and/or his Chidori, and/or trying to copy and follow Scorpion's moves - he'll be getting weaker while Scorpion will either staying nuetral or getting stronger.

#12 Posted by Juiceboks (9309 posts) - - Show Bio

@onilordasmodeus

1) I think you're confusing Scorpion with Nightcrawler. Never has Scorpion defeated anybody by continually porting around the battlefield utilizing hit and run tactics. He usually goes h2h in his fights while mixing in some hellfire attacks here and there. Go ahead and post fights where he has done otherwise if you know any. Even if he did, never has teleportation been considered a speed advantage and is an ability Kakashi should be able to keep track of with his Sharingan. Scorpion is simply outclassed in ALL physical categories and Kakashi has many jutsus that can one shot him.

2) What demonstrations of skill does Scorpion have that puts him on Kakashi's level? Seriously..him being one of the best(which is actually subjective and something I disagree with) fighters in the MK Universe is not very impressive. Being able to take hits that would kill a regular human is nothing special as the same can be said about literally 99% of all street levelers. That doesn't mean he can take a chidori or rasengan. Prove that he outclasses Kakashi in durability.

3) Who's to say he will even use Kamui? He's done that very little and only against powerful opponents.

#13 Edited by onilordasmodeus (2545 posts) - - Show Bio

@onilordasmodeus

1) I think you're confusing Scorpion with Nightcrawler. Never has Scorpion defeated anybody by continually porting around the battlefield utilizing hit and run tactics. He usually goes h2h in his fights while mixing in some hellfire attacks here and there. Go ahead and post fights where he has done otherwise if you know any. Even if he did, never has teleportation been considered a speed advantage and is an ability Kakashi should be able to keep track of with his Sharingan. Scorpion is simply outclassed in ALL physical categories and Kakashi has many jutsus that can one shot him.

2) What demonstrations of skill does Scorpion have that puts him on Kakashi's level? Seriously..him being one of the best(which is actually subjective and something I disagree with) fighters in the MK Universe is not very impressive. Being able to take hits that would kill a regular human is nothing special as the same can be said about literally 99% of all street levelers. That doesn't mean he can take a chidori or rasengan. Prove that he outclasses Kakashi in durability.

3) Who's to say he will even use Kamui? He's done that very little and only against powerful opponents.

1) Scorpion has and does use "porting around the battlefield" as a tactic in most/all of his battles (that is one of the reasons he has it as a special move in the games). One of the better examples is in MK Shaolin Monks where Scorpion was a boss and he was seen teleport all over the Netherrealm cavern in which that battle took place in, in between using area of affect hellfire blasts. However, you are correct when you say that Kakashi's Sharingan should be able to keep up with/see Scorpion's movements (I already mentioned that too), but just that doesn't mean he can physically keep up Scorpion at all (who, again, doesn't tire) over the course of a battle.

I have to ask, in what medium has teleportation ever been NOT seen as a speed advantage? Even in Naruto teleportation is like the holy grail of speed as both Madara and Minato are legendary because of the "speed" they use...a tactic, mind you, which is commonplace among MK characters.

2) Demonstrations of skill:

  • Scorpion was trained by, and became the best warrior of, the Shiria Ryu Clan, the original Ninja Clan of Japan, and rival to the Lin Kuei. He is a master of the shuriken (all throwing weapons - which is how he got the name Scorpion), as well as has official mastery of Hopkido, Pi Gua, and sword combat.
  • Before his death (pure skill not powers) he could fight Bi Han, the original Subzero, heads up.
  • After his ressurection he defeated Bi Han, who himself had just displayed the skill and ability to defeat 4 different Gods in 1v1 confrontations
  • Defeated the younger Subzero, Kuai Liang, who was officially stated as being "stronger" than his brother Bi Han.
  • Defeated Quan Chi, who himself had live thousands of years and is an experienced fighter who has master various martial forms, and went head to head with both Raiden and Shang Tsung.
  • Went head to head with Taven in MKA, who himself has super human stats and the ability to freeze time

Scorpion (as well as many other MK characters) is hella skilled, and is good enough to go toe to toe with Kakashi in h2h, weapon based, or "chakra" based combat.

3) I'm not saying he would use the Kamui, only that if he did it might not do much. On the other hand, if Scorpion teleported Kakashi to hell and fought him there, nothing Kakashi could do to Scorpion anyway, would do much all.

Keep in mind that Scorpion has been desolved in acid, frozen in ice and shattered, burned "alive" in lava, almost had his soul torn apart by vengeful spirits (until he teleported clear of the attack), and is still 100% a-ok physically. This isn't movie Scorpion that we are debating about here, this is canon Scorpion, the one who is "nearly unstoppable and will not rest". Unless Kakashi has an attack that can extingush a soul, he really doesn't have an attack that can give Scorpion to much pause.

#14 Posted by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek (20320 posts) - - Show Bio

Scorpion has this. I'll drop some feats.

  • Scorpion gets ambushed by Kitara and holds his own before being defeated.
  • Scorpion easily kills Siang, a formidable warrior composed of two martial artists combined.
  • Scorpion fighting against Sub-Zero, until Raiden interferes, causing his defeat.
  • Scorpion, again, fights Sub-Zero until Raiden interferes.
  • Knocking down Reptile with a single punch.

Also what @onilordasmodeus said, Scorpion has faced against opponents more lethal than Kakashi and won.

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#15 Edited by Wolfrazer (6909 posts) - - Show Bio

@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek: MK comics are non-canon sadly. Which...would really help them more in battles here. I mean why they can't be used for game characters, dunno...it actually shows their ability better then game mechanics do...but whatever.

#16 Posted by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek (20320 posts) - - Show Bio

@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek: MK comics are non-canon sadly. Which...would really help them more in battles here. I mean why they can't be used for game characters, dunno...it actually shows their ability better then game mechanics do...but whatever.

Yeah I'm aware that they are non-canon. I still think they accurately depict what the characters are capable of (most of the time). I mean, it's not like they have any other Mortal Kombat comic.

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#17 Posted by jashro44 (22266 posts) - - Show Bio

@onilordasmodeus: I feel the need to point out that Kakashi has been using Kamui a lot recently with very little strain.

He managed to teleport 8 tails after fighting in a war for long period of time. Also about scorpion teleporting away from Kamui your assuming he is going to be aware of Kakashis abilities.

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#18 Edited by onilordasmodeus (2545 posts) - - Show Bio

@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek: MK comics are non-canon sadly. Which...would really help them more in battles here. I mean why they can't be used for game characters, dunno...it actually shows their ability better then game mechanics do...but whatever.

Though I wasn't using any comics, and though the Malibu MK comics are non-canon, they have been ok'd to be used by the mods here on CV. They are as useable as the comic feats for Street Fighter characters.

#19 Posted by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek (20320 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolfrazer said:

@yourneighborhoodcomicgeek: MK comics are non-canon sadly. Which...would really help them more in battles here. I mean why they can't be used for game characters, dunno...it actually shows their ability better then game mechanics do...but whatever.

Though I wasn't using any comics, and though the Malibu MK comics are non-canon, they have been ok'd to be used by the mods here on CV. They are as useable as the comic feats for Street Fighter characters.

That's pretty cool. My folder of MK comic book feats isn't useless after all!

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#20 Posted by Wolfrazer (6909 posts) - - Show Bio
#21 Posted by dccomicsrule2011 (25198 posts) - - Show Bio
#22 Posted by The_Titan_Lord (5830 posts) - - Show Bio

Kakashi

#23 Posted by PrinceAragorn1 (17877 posts) - - Show Bio

Geez, people keep acting like kamui is the only thing kakashi can do, he doesn't even use it unless required:

It isn't that easy to surprise him:

Stopping Zabuza's demon shurikern with one hand, point blank:

Copying 44 seals nigh-instantly (Exactly 44, without a single mistake). Note that it wasn't slow as the anime showed, none of the other members of team were shown to have moved in the time, not even out of range. Performing the water jutsu:

To see how it looks when done properly:

Now we get down to durability. This isn't avatar, he has very good durability feats, too:

First, kakuzu's strength (one scan, putting in spoiler):

Leveling top of the building with one punch, I'm sure it'll kill a man lol:

I could add the ones where he easily stopped chouji and nearly one shotted him, (If you remember choji's fight with jirabou, I don't have to say how impressive the feat was) but I don't think that's needed..

Got kicked by kakuzu squarely in the chest

Notice the destruction caused by that kick. He continues to fight like nothing.

Hit by a gravitational wave that broke a solid wall made specially for defense (scan 2), and one that made craters in the ground:

Now, he isn't easy to surprise, but when it comes to surprising, he's quite the expert:

Note that this is the same kakuzu who has hundreds of years of experience, noticed that ino may have possessed a bird far away and attacked it, as well as noticed shikamaru's shadow from their blindspot:

Now for the major fights we saw pre-war arc:

Kakuzu and hidan:

The scans in order:

1. Skill: Fights with hidan, without losing a single drop of blood. (Hidan's jutsu works on blood)

2. Durability: Hit directly by kakuzu's Fuuton: atsugai (bleeding wind) which literally blew away everything in range.

3-4. Speed: outraces kakuzu's lightening jutsu and cancels it with his own. (note he was blasted the opposite way)

5-6. Dodges kakuzu's wide scale fire attack, and continues the fight with hidan, not getting hurt at all, with nothing but a kunai:

Pein:

Keeps up with two peins, one with gravity blast (upper limit at max power and perhaps the most powerful path) and one with explosives/missiles:

(I hate the small scans, the order gets messed up, and can't fix it..)

(He uses kamui on the nail)

He uses it very sparingly, but when he does, it's accurate enough to warp anything from nails, hands, explosions, missiles, and tailed beasts..

This would be far more than enough to beat scorpion, if all he's got is in the scans..

#24 Posted by xlab3000 (3292 posts) - - Show Bio

Scorpion beating Kakashi lol xD.

Kakashi SLAUGHTERHOUSE.

Geez, people keep acting like kamui is the only thing kakashi can do, he doesn't even use it unless required:

It isn't that easy to surprise him:

Stopping Zabuza's demon shurikern with one hand, point blank:

Copying 44 seals nigh-instantly (Exactly 44, without a single mistake). Note that it wasn't slow as the anime showed, none of the other members of team were shown to have moved in the time, not even out of range. Performing the water jutsu:

To see how it looks when done properly:

Now we get down to durability. This isn't avatar, he has very good durability feats, too:

First, kakuzu's strength (one scan, putting in spoiler):

Leveling top of the building with one punch, I'm sure it'll kill a man lol:

I could add the ones where he easily stopped chouji and nearly one shotted him, (If you remember choji's fight with jirabou, I don't have to say how impressive the feat was) but I don't think that's needed..

Got kicked by kakuzu squarely in the chest

Notice the destruction caused by that kick. He continues to fight like nothing.

Hit by a gravitational wave that broke a solid wall made specially for defense (scan 2), and one that made craters in the ground:

Now, he isn't easy to surprise, but when it comes to surprising, he's quite the expert:

Note that this is the same kakuzu who has hundreds of years of experience, noticed that ino may have possessed a bird far away and attacked it, as well as noticed shikamaru's shadow from their blindspot:

Now for the major fights we saw pre-war arc:

Kakuzu and hidan:

The scans in order:

1. Skill: Fights with hidan, without losing a single drop of blood. (Hidan's jutsu works on blood)

2. Durability: Hit directly by kakuzu's Fuuton: atsugai (bleeding wind) which literally blew away everything in range.

3-4. Speed: outraces kakuzu's lightening jutsu and cancels it with his own. (note he was blasted the opposite way)

5-6. Dodges kakuzu's wide scale fire attack, and continues the fight with hidan, not getting hurt at all, with nothing but a kunai:

Pein:

Keeps up with two peins, one with gravity blast (upper limit at max power and perhaps the most powerful path) and one with explosives/missiles:

(I hate the small scans, the order gets messed up, and can't fix it..)

(He uses kamui on the nail)

He uses it very sparingly, but when he does, it's accurate enough to warp anything from nails, hands, explosions, missiles, and tailed beasts..

This would be far more than enough to beat scorpion, if all he's got is in the scans..

These

#25 Posted by Juiceboks (9309 posts) - - Show Bio
#26 Edited by PrinceAragorn1 (17877 posts) - - Show Bio

@juiceboks: Anytime. I see that people just come in and say 'kamui!' for every kakashi thread, and think if you have a counter to that, you beat him..

#27 Posted by utkanflash (448 posts) - - Show Bio

poor bad Scorpion ı love scorpion his my second MK char but ı dont see he event make a sweat on Kakashi !?!?

Hatake Kakashi in 4th Great Shinobi War arc !?!?1 Wouw

He can use 4 elements Jutsus, Kamui, Genjutsu, Taijutsu and Kenjutsu easily !!!!
Scorpion not a match for any Konoha Jounin (maybe except Genma and Hayate)
And Kakashi best Jounin in this time ....Kakuzu far better than Scorpion even he didnt succeed about killin Kakashi
Scorpion not a thread on Sharingan no Kakashi

He dont need kamui for take out Scorpie

and MK Comics are not a cannon on these things..sorry

#28 Edited by ThatGuyWithHeadPhones (11276 posts) - - Show Bio

@princearagorn1 said:

@juiceboks: Anytime. I see that people just come in and say 'kamui!' for every kakashi thread, and think if you have a counter to that, you beat him..

That why I take kumui out of all my Kakashi Threads.

#29 Posted by Juiceboks (9309 posts) - - Show Bio

@juiceboks: Anytime. I see that people just come in and say 'kamui!' for every kakashi thread, and think if you have a counter to that, you beat him..

It's like saying if you have a counter to Tengai Shinsei then you can beat Madara -_-

#30 Edited by Wolfrazer (6909 posts) - - Show Bio

I also find it funny, people think Kakashi has an absurdly low amount of chakra and that is gonna have him be the loser(against other Naruto chars anyway). Does it have his chakra cut because of his sharingan? Yes...but is he able to fight against opponents with much greater amounts? Yes.

In fact it is even more impressive of his cut chakra, that he is a former ANBU and top Jounin.

#31 Posted by onilordasmodeus (2545 posts) - - Show Bio

@princearagorn1: Nice post! But there are a couple things you just have to give up to Scorpion because he beats Kakashi off top.

1) Durability. There is no question that Naruto characters can take punishment, but MK characters as a whole can do much of the same. Scorpion though, is on another level than most because he literally, physically cannot be killed/hurt. As I posted before, he's been shattered, and completely submerged completely in lava, not to mention fought against opponents who canonically can punch through iron, steel, and solid ruby. It is safe to say that both can take a punch that is far above the norm, but only one of them can walk through lava like it is nothing, or literally be broken and be fine.

2) Speed. As fast as Kakashi is, he has never been shown to be on the level of a teleporter. Scorpion's speed is literally instantaneous, and as fast as Kakashi is, he isn't instant.

IMO Kakashi's biggest plus in this fight is his Sharingan because it allows him to see things normal people couldn't, and it give him other ocular boosts as well. It definately does give him a leg up that many other fighters wouldn't have, but as I said before it wouldn't give him a leg up over Scorpion at all, as at best it would be the only ability he has that could pull him somewhat even with Scorpion's teleportation.

On the level of Skill, I'd say it is a wash between them. They have both fought characters who have insane levels of experience and won, and both have been concidered "the best" in one way or another.

About your scans specifically, some of them are a litte misleading.

1) In the first scans you posted about Kakashi not being easy to surprise, those are to Chunin level ninja; not very fast, nor very skilled or experienced (iirc).

2) Copying seals perfectly is "power" awarded to him by the Sharingan (which uses a decent amount of chakra too), though it is also partially a skill that he has developed and perfected over time. Anyway, Scorpion doesn't do seals, nor can Kakashi copy any of Scorpion's "ninjutsu". All of Sorpion's powers are on the level of a Bloodline limit, they are an ability that he alone has developed and perfected. Though Kakashi can produce a multitude of other Ninjutsu attacks, not many of them are going to be able to do much to trump Scorpion teleportation and hell fire attacks...especially if Scorpion moves them to the Netherrealm.

The following links are just a few vids of scorpion doing his thing.

#32 Posted by PrinceAragorn1 (17877 posts) - - Show Bio

@onilordasmodeus:

1) Durability. There is no question that Naruto characters can take punishment, but MK characters as a whole can do much of the same. Scorpion though, is on another level than most because he literally, physically cannot be killed/hurt. As I posted before, he's been shattered, and completely submerged completely in lava, not to mention fought against opponents who canonically can punch through iron, steel, and solid ruby. It is safe to say that both can take a punch that is far above the norm, but only one of them can walk through lava like it is nothing, or literally be broken and be fine.

Agreed. Though naruto characters are strong as well as durable, they can't take lava without some protection, like jinchuriki cloak, or raiton armor, or susano.. and kakashi doesn't have them.

2) Speed. As fast as Kakashi is, he has never been shown to be on the level of a teleporter. Scorpion's speed is literally instantaneous, and as fast as Kakashi is, he isn't instant.

Not really. Teleportion does no substitute for real speed in any manner at all. Having teleportation does not mean you have the speed or reflexes to keep up with it. If you have literal instant speed, you'd never be tagged in a fight. minato, azazel, lord voldemort, all have teleportion and have been tagged before. I believe X men origins covered it extremely well with this:

Kakashi is fast enough to keep up with almost any naruto character, like tobi, or deva pein, jinchurikis and so on. The jonins are basically fast enough to blitz over five chunins easily, so I'd put kakashi's combat speed much above scorpion's at least from what the scans showed.

IMO Kakashi's biggest plus in this fight is his Sharingan because it allows him to see things normal people couldn't, and it give him other ocular boosts as well. It definately does give him a leg up that many other fighters wouldn't have, but as I said before it wouldn't give him a leg up over Scorpion at all, as at best it would be the only ability he has that could pull him somewhat even with Scorpion's teleportation.

Disagreed. Kakashi's greatest advantage here is versatility. I doubt he will even use sharingan for someone who is in his own speed level, arguably even lower. Plus raikiri gives him a solid speed burst if required. A Sharingan:

1. enhances the ability of his eye to see, that is, he can catch the movements he couldn't even see before.

2. Gives the ability to see one step ahead,

3. And stuff like seeing invisible people, and microscopic vision etc.

The first two are of importance here..

On the level of Skill, I'd say it is a wash between them. They have both fought characters who have insane levels of experience and won, and both have been concidered "the best" in one way or another.

Well, I'm not going to bother with a skill debate, as you agree kakashi does not lack in the department. He's a skilled taijutsu user, he's konoha's technique specialist, rival of gai and taught by legendary teachers, etc.

About your scans specifically, some of them are a litte misleading.

1) In the first scans you posted about Kakashi not being easy to surprise, those are to Chunin level ninja; not very fast, nor very skilled or experienced (iirc).

2) Copying seals perfectly is "power" awarded to him by the Sharingan (which uses a decent amount of chakra too), though it is also partially a skill that he has developed and perfected over time. Anyway, Scorpion doesn't do seals, nor can Kakashi copy any of Scorpion's "ninjutsu". All of Sorpion's powers are on the level of a Bloodline limit, they are an ability that he alone has developed and perfected. Though Kakashi can produce a multitude of other Ninjutsu attacks, not many of them are going to be able to do much to trump Scorpion teleportation and hell fire attacks...especially if Scorpion moves them to the Netherrealm.

I'd say they're quite clear, actually:

1. I'm not sure how fast mk characters are, but high level genins like sasuke and lee were, in base, above sound speed (on panel statements, no calc involved). I agree that the high genins, like neji, or Kn 0 naruto were considered to be on par with chunin in fighting. but it was when they were fighting all out, which speaks volumes about chunin level. Unfortunately, we get directly from genin to jonin level after time-skip, so we don't have much to gauge with about chunins. And you may also recall that shinobi start going on missions from very young age, and villages like hidden mist have kill-or-be-killed exams for chunin selection. So they're slow or inexperienced by no means. Almost all the kid characters we saw fighting before timeskip were high genin to chunin level.. And you may also recall the kind of speeds they used (Neji/kiba) and destruction they caused (kiba/chouji)

2. Copying seals is not an ability granted by sharingan. It's kakashi's specialty, which gave him the nickname copy ninja. It was also demonstrated by sasuke on low scale, and it was referred to as being a genius. None of the other uchihas have shown that. And kakashi doesn't just copy ninjutsu, he can perfectly copy movements as well as taijutsu, to the point he finishes your own movement before you.

To be really honest about these, pre-time skip lee performed all the feats more impressively, And he doesn't even have teleportation. He did those with sheer, raw combat speed. Kakashi is on an entirely different level compared to lee..

#33 Posted by onilordasmodeus (2545 posts) - - Show Bio

@princearagorn1:

About speed...teleportation can be a substitue for "speed" as we are using it here, as a basic combat speed. And while yes Minato and other teleporters have been/can be tagged, that is niether here nor there as I'm not saying that Scorpion won't get touched by Kakashi. All I'm saying is that with the ability to teleport, Scorpion's movement options are just much more abundant than Kakashi's are as he can port high into the sky or deep under ground; he can even teleport through space to different dimensions at will with no drawbacks in the slightest, or any tells as to what he is doing or where he is going. He overall just has more options in that department.

And I hear what you are saying about Kakashi and other Jonin being fast enough to blitz Chunin and others, but the bottom line is on average a Chunin is just in a lower class of skill and speed than both of these characters.

About the combat speed of MK characters overall...more than 60% of the cast use teleportation (instant movement) as some part of their combat abilities, and each one is acknowledged as a master of combat; some with many with hundreds/thousands of years of experience under their belt. Each fighter's abilites are subject to situation and match-ups though, similar to how the Naruto series works things out in its fights, that is one major thing these series have in common.

About Kakashi's versatility vs his Sharingan and how it pertains to this fight...we can go back and forth about the different mediums a how each one portrays combat speed, but honestly I want to avoid that. Anime/manga vs most of other forms of media are tough just for this fact. The vids I linked to are just examples of what type of abilities Scorpion is capable of, but canonically he has fought against time manipulators, Gods composed solely of lighting, and beings who read souls and have semi-precog abilities. Scorpion is more than capable of fighting at high speeds and reacting to lightning fast attacks without the use of teleportation. Teleporting just gives him more, which is why I stress Kakashi's Sharingan as his best means of dealing with Scorpion.

#34 Posted by 106me (1671 posts) - - Show Bio

Mismatch

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#35 Posted by FlashGreaterSignEveryone (987 posts) - - Show Bio

kakashi fought a tailed beast no.. he fought 2