Kakashi Hatake vs Admiral Akainu

@ratava: That's true. XD

@anime2114: Again what exactly does your rather arbitrary tiering system do for your nonexistent argument?

Almost everyone you listed has legitimate ways to beat Akainu via versatility. What resistance does Akainu have to simple genjutsu?

@boringperson: 1. As far as Genjutsu, Either you equalize Chakra to Haki, in which case Akainu would simply break out if it like Jiraiya taught Naruto, or you don't equalize, and them deal with the fact Genjustu works by manipulating a persons chakra, so it wouldn't work on someone without Chakra. Either way, Genjustu isn't beating Akainu.

2. As far as the rest, this fight is honestly ridiculous. Akainu has a massive advantage in speed, DC, durability, AP, ect. On top of the fact that the only things Kakashi could use on him would be:

Water Style Justu - Which Akainu would just evaporate. And,

Kamui - Which due to his massive speed advantage along with Haki precog, he could easily dodge and one shot him.

This fight just doesn't match up. It'd be like putting someone like Arlong against Nagato. It's an obvious stomp thread.

Thanks. Appreciate the welcome.

You forgot about one thing though. Kakashi's kamui is not instant and it depends on the size and we both know how big Akainu is. Not to mention that Kakashi need Kurama's chakra to boost kamui to transport Killer Bee's beast. Assuming that Akainu knows soru because he was a Vice Admiral once (Akainu never demonstrated it, but Vice Admirals demonstrated their ability to use soru), he can dodge kamui. And even if Akainu doesn't know soru, which I think is unlikely, kamui is not instant. He can get away and even if Kakashi managed to take Akainu's head off or arm, it will just grow back.

It's pretty close to being instant though. And at this point in the series Kakashi has been shown to be able to suck in pretty huge objects with little prep time, it only took him a couple of seconds to gather the chakra to remove himself from the kamui Dimension and he was near exhausted at that point. The last time he really had to gather chakra for anything was the Ten Tails Head which is waaaaay over ten feet and that still was relatively quick.

On CV we rarely allow ourselves to make assumptions on characters for pretty much anything. So not only do we not know if he can use Soru, we don't know how fast his Soru would be or if it would even be fast enough to dodge a Kamui, sadly Akainu doesn't have enough speed feats to suggest he can dodge much of anything at this level. Unless Akainu has the feats to suggest he is much faster than Kakashi , Kakashi can play keep away till he gathers the Chakra and take Akainu out in one go.

@anime2114:

1. You -don't- break out of genjutsu unless you have Sharingan or someone else with you. Even then, it takes a moment or more to recognize the genjutsu is happening and then break out and that's enough time for Kakashi to use Kamui.

Genjutsu and doujutsu have worked on normal humans in the Naruto universe who are unable to mold chakra. What you're implying is that the less chakra a person has, the less powerful effect genjutsu would have on them... and we've only seen the opposite.

2. Akainu doesn't bullrush often in character, he enjoys showing people how outclassed they are by taking a hit, and with prep time Kakashi is sure to be using a water/lighting/shadow clone while hiding underground anyways. Post some speed feats and haki-precog feats. I'm rather certain the latter just don't exist.

Even if he can do it logically, if he's never shown it or had any accolades for it, then it doesn't apply to the battle.

Genjutsu doesn't work on people who don't have Chakra, that is true (really the only true thing I've seen anime2114 say). Genjutsu is specifically described as " techniques manipulate the flow of chakra in the victim's brain" , it doesn't matter how much you have it just matters that you have Chakra. Everyone in the narutoverse has chakra but only the people in narutoverse have chakra. Chakra was originally held by the Origin Tree/Ten Tails before kaguya ate the forbidden fruit and Gained Chakra before sealing the Ten Tails and gaining control of the world. The Kaguya had two children which were born with Chakra, one being the Sage of the Six Paths. The Sage then shared Chakra with the world in a hope that it would propagate peace but instead it made War worse by allowing individuals to wield ninjutsu. Once the Sage of the Six paths shared Chakra every person had it. The myth is true as both Kaguya and the Sage of the Six Paths have confirmed it.

I agree though, Akainu doesn't have the speed or precog feats to prove he can do the blitzing and dodging people are claiming regardless of Logic and statements of power. I just like to inform people about the weakness of Genjutsu outside of Naruto verse.

Not going to address point 1 because it was already explained.

He doesn't enjoy showing anything. For him there is only Absolute Justice, in fact he tries to kill people asap, making it rain magma (to kill as many people as possible) or trying to kill someone with a single punch (like he tried to do with Luffy but Ace blocked). I don't remember him ever showing enjoyment in any fight.

@cerberus369616: Meh, it's all Kishimoto retcon'ing anyways.

I miss when Naruto was about squad tactics and stealth, not just supergods fighting supergods.

It's like that moment in Bleach where Soi Fong uses Suzumebachi to two shot kill Aizen, and then Aizen just says "LOL NOPE, I HAVE MORE REIATSU THAN YOU."

That's when the series really died. It made everyone but Ichigo and Aizen abjectly impotent and uninteresting to the point of harshly depowering Ichigo and locking Aizen into the basement. At that point why should anyone care about the as of yet unknown badass Bankai that Utkitake and Shunsui were supposed to have? You shouldn't because no matter how awesome they might be, they would never have been able to even scratch Aizen or comparable threats because reiatsu.

@boringperson: Bleach should have ended at the Soul Society Arc. Whenever I watch the first opening I always think "Damn...so much potential wasted".

I agree, my fave fight is still Kakashi vs Zabuza, it felt like two ninja from an old Kung Fu movie fighting. Even down to hand Seals still taking time and not being trivialized by "ZOMFG HAND SPEED LIKE ITACHI!!!". The depth , strategy and subtly of fights like that (almost always Kakashi and Shikamaru fighting like that sadly) is something to be missed. But that being said it has little to no place in the battle forums and doesn't really matter.

Still haven't seen any real speed feats from Akainu to imply he can blitz other than A>B>C logic on who he has fought with .

@cerberus369616: Agree, it's off topic.

It's implied that Vice Admirals can use Rokushiki (VA Dalmatian, VA Momonga, VA Onigumo, VA Vergo, VA Garp, VA Smoker, the list goes on). Even those below the Vice Admiral rank learn Rokushuki such as Coby and Tashigi. So, it's pretty safe to assume that an Admiral, who is far above the Vice Admiral rank (and in Sakazuki's case, he was a vice admiral 20 years ago) knows how to use Rokushiki, including Soru.

If you combine the speed of Soru and the true precog that Observation Haki gives you, you can move at an extremly fast speed while you can avoid many things.

Soru has been shown to be much faster than bullets (since Luffy could dodge bullets in East Blue but couldn't even see Rob Lucci moving).

@bolaum: the round bullets of OP? that don't make a bullet timer. lol

@lowlaville: Your point being...?

Point being, the round bullets are slower than any standard bullets in rl to draw a comparison to say luffy pre cp9 was a bullet timer.

Well it's fine like to assume he can, but we can't make such Logic leaps generally on the battle forums. And has he shown the ability to use that Kind of haki or even haki at all really? Again we can assume he has it for the purposes of story but we can't just assume it for the battle forums otherwise we can assume things like "Batman has a plan for every superhero and villain in the Galaxy because he has plans for some people." or "Jay Garrick can Speed Steal because other Flashes can Speed Steal". Logically it may make sense for him to be able to, but logically it could also make sense that he has some sort of unseen power that makes it so that he doesn't need any of those techniques and put him far above capabilities of people using those techniques. Without proof we can't assume he has them.

But for the sake of argument let's assume he can use Soru and has precog with Haki. We don't know to what degree. Basic Soru is faster than Bullets, and with a head start that is certainly fast but enough to suggest he can blitz Kakashi who also has limited precog with Sharingan and is certainly supersonic as well? Doubtful. Faster than Kamui which with approximately twice the speed was able to keep up with speed comparable to the massively hypersonic Eight Gate Gai? Even at half that speed Kamui is still Hypersonic at the least. If we assume Kakashi plays it very safe and just plays keep away until he has the amount of Chakra he needed to take off the ten tail head it'll only take about a minute at the most and he can BFR Akainu. and that is all under the assumption he has Soru.

@lowlaville: Please, show me where it says that One Piece marines use round bullets.

@cerberus369616:

Yes he did use Haki to stop Whitebeard's quake with the other 2 admirals. It was already stated that all vice admirals have both Haki, therefore Akainu, who was a vice admiral 22 years ago and is now the Fleet Admiral, has both Haki.

The thing is, Akainu tries to end his fights asap, we've never seen him trying to make a fight last too long. Kakashi would have to keep dodging all his attacks. And as soon as he thinks of "trying to send him to another dimension" Akainu already knows Kakashi's plan.

About the first part of your post: I'll keep that mind.

@lowlaville:

Most of the weaponry in OP shit on 14th century and in many cases even modern ones.

.......are you kidding me? How else do you think those bullets bounce off of him? Luffy is vulnerable to piercing attacks.

Looks pretty damn round to me. o-o

@scandy: You mean like the Pacifista and those battleships as big a whole islands?

@lowlaville: Don't forget that he also fought Don Krieg, who didn't use round bullets:

Doesn't look round to me.

Off topic!

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Tangentially on topic!

It's also safe to assume One Piece bullets are slower than their modern counter parts because they're mostly portrayed as muzzle loaders. Though the difference in fps between a modern rifle and a muzzle loader is about half.

Most muzzle loaders have approximately 1500 fps as a high standard and most modern rifles float at around 3500 fps. Though modern handguns have fps that is rather similar to -if not lower than- muzzle loading rifles so Luffy's early bullet timing is still good enough to be considered modern bullet timing.

@bolaum: So? I'm not saying he won't try to blitz Kakashi. I'm saying he doesn't have the feats to suggest he will succeed in blitzing Kakashi. Akainui might know Kamui exists but he has no real way of knowing it is about to happen since all Kakashi has to do is look at him and he doesn't have any defense against it. I'm not saying Akainui doesn't have the tools to win, he probably will take some rounds, hell even a Majority. But Kakashi has both the means of winning and the means to keep himself in the fight for and extended period of time without even taking into account his superior versatility thanks to his massive amount of Jutsu. It's not a stomp either way but to suggest Akainui has the means to blitz Kakashi sounds like over estimating Akainui base on conjecture and Statements.

@cerberus369616: You misunderstood me. I do think that Kakashi can win this. If he can use Kamui then he wins. And I didn't say that he can blitz Kakashi (at least I don't think that I did).

@bolaum: There's a difference between standard marine issue and other specific issues.

@bolaum:

Not only pacifista but these....

Cannons can produce MCB sized explosions and glass an island.They also displace a huge amount of water that 14th century canons wish they could.

Fodder haki also makes arrows comparable to bullets.

@lowlaville: I didn't mention marines. You brought them. All I said was that Luffy could dodge bullets in East Blue. You said marines use round bullets which are slower. I showed you that Don Krieg didn't use round bullets and he was defeated in East Blue.

@scandy: lol I misread your previous post.

And I said, the round bullets are standard marine issue. Do you remember what you said?

Please, show me where it says that One Piece marines use round bullets.

I proved the fallacy in your statement. You brought Don Krieg out of nowhere. I don't know why that has anything to do with me.

@lowlaville said:

@lowlaville: How is he out of nowhere when I clearly stated Luffy in East Blue? Don Krieg, in case you don't know, was part of East Blue saga hence it was not out of nowhere.

1. Akainu's normal tactics don't matter. For one, the only things Kakashi has that could do anything to him are Water Style Jutsu and Kamui. Water Style won't work because he would evaporate it, so that leaves Kamui. It said in the OP that he has knowledge on Kamui, meaning he would be aware of how dangerous it is, and know that he'd need to kill Kakashi before he used it on him.

2. I get the whole assumption thing, but it was already said everyone at Vice Admiral and above had at least one form of Haki. It's ridiculous to think the strongest one that becomes Fleet Admiral of the entire Navy can't use Haki at the level of Zoro and Sanji.

3. He is completely capable of blitzing him. Even way back in the beginning Luffy made a sonic boom against Arlong, Zoro was casually blitzing people from a distance and dodging gunfire at Whiskey Peak, and Usopp and Chopper were reacting to explosions and Supersonic baseballs from Mr. 4 in Alabasta.

Akainu>Jimbei>Bloodlusted Pre TS G2 Luffy.

4. Kakashi can't deal with someone who can blitz him and has attacks like this:

http://www.onepiecebay.net/manga/mangas/One%20Piece/567%20-%20Marineford%20Marine%20Headquarters,%20Oris%20Plaza/One_Piece-v58-094-095.png

http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130724093228/onepiece/images/a/ac/Meigo_on_Whitebeard.png

http://a.mpcdn.net/manga/p/770/133941/4.jpg

http://4.p.s.mfcdn.net/store/manga/106/57-554.0/compressed/t08_09.jpg

http://c.mfcdn.net/store/manga/106/58-564.0/compressed/lone_piece_564_binktopia.16_17.jpg

http://obdpictures1.wikispaces.com/file/view/Akainu_volcano_by_vi3ugu3pard.png/324821880/Akainu_volcano_by_vi3ugu3pard.png

It just not a good match up. Kakashi only even has a slight chance because of of one hax technique. Akainu completely outclasses him.

Kakashi got new feats. Akainu ain't touching him bruh. Moreover, Kakashi can just substitute a Kamui Shuriken with that of an attack say Akainu threw at him = insta wipeout.

@lowlaville: Nah, the OP says "Kakashi right before he had his Sharingan stolen by Madara". Any new feats are irrelevant.

Towards this thread, maybe.

I can't really tell if it's Naruto fandom... or just the OP hate...

Idk how the knowledge of kamui would help, exactly. But without it, I don't see kakashi winning.

Have people here read the latest chapter?

Since the latest chapter, this is a missmatch, Kakashi stomps, or let me rephrase that, Kakashi rapes everything Onepiece has to offer.

its not current Kakashi

read the op

"Kakashi right before he had his Sharingan stolen by Madara"

@princearagorn1: I didn't know what other info to give Akainu about Kakashi haha

Just for fun.......bump lol

@thevivas: Yo you see sasuke in the latest naruto chapter that shot blew my mind

@vintage_spiderman: Lol. Agreed. I was hoping something badass would happen so we could have a good final battle after Kaguya.

@anime2114: kakashi's face=priceless kakashi: what did you say sasuke

The reader(atleast me): you know exactly wtf he said and now your powerless

@vintage_spiderman: Lol. Yeah. Sasuke made sure he waited until Kakashi lost his powers and the Hokages got sent away. Pretty smart. Seems like he's been planning this since he joined the war. He just used Obito, Madara, and Kaguya as practice to master his Rinnegan powers.

And lol Hagoromo. "Well, looks like I screwed up again. Good luck Naruto, see ya later."

@vintage_spiderman: D*ck move of the century much? Lol. Lowkey was expecting Sasuke and Naruto to be buddies and have a friendly battle to end of the series but Sasuke just had to ruin it LOL. At least it's more epic this way haha

Kakashi wins due to Susanoo and kamui.

After the timeskip that Akainu became fleet admiral it is hard to say if Kakashi would be able to beat him even with Susanoo, he does not have enough power output to take Akainu alone.

Akainu blitz

Without DMS: Akainu Dominates

With DMS: Kakashi Stomps