Kakarot VS Frieza

Kakarot:

VS

Frieza

• Buu Saga Kakarot in Base Form, and Base Form only.
• 100% Final Form Frieza.
• Morals On.
• Victory shall be decided via KO, or Death.

Frieza

Kiao ken?

Care to elaborate?

idk if its bad writing or what but his base form was basically as strong as super saiyan 1 was back then in the frieza saga, no?

@cooldes:

Damn it, it slipped my mind. No Kaioken is permitted for Kakarot.

Bills says so.

Goku's power in Base Form would have likely been suppressed for all we know (as there would be no reason to keep it active).

I actually want to hear a decent reason, rather than a statement (and knowing DBZ, statements are often questionable). And don't bring up the case that "Vegeta surpassed Goku in BOTG" because that was obvious bad-writing.

Why would he purposely make himself appear as weak as possible to Bills, who's respect he obviously desired?

Goku duh lmao

That's why he went all the way to Super Saiyan 3, because what would be the point in having his Base Form at full power when he has three Super Saiyan forms at his disposal to impress Bills?

I know this wasn't canon, but in one of the movies Gohan beat Frieza in his base form, can we use that as a reference?

I'm pretty sure Goku's base power at EOS was around 3,000,000 ..Friezas is 15,000,000. So yes, goku wins easilly with kaioken. Without it, no.

(Goku's power as read by Babadi's meter was converted from killis to conventional numbers on the dbz wiki...150 million, or 100x as strong as he was when he fought Frieza. Taking that nice, easy number and dividing it by 50 for the ssj multiplier that was active at the time, n we get 3 million....or 100x stronger than base goku was when he fought Frieza lol). I'd even go as far as to say Goku stomps, cuz holding kaioken is nothing to him after maintaining his ssj form for weeks on end. A x4 would match Frieza, x10 would crush him, x20 is his last known use of it which he had no trouble using for the longest fight in the series, and hypothetically he could press it higher yet under x50, at which point his body must transform to contain all that power. I'd say x30 is a possibility, with harsh penalties of course. But that's just for lols.

But by comparison, kk x10 would also beat MechaFrieza, and kk x13 would be just enough to ensure a solid success rate over king cold.

In short, Goku stomps with weighted boots.

Damnit! No kk now? Frieza stomp. He needs at least x3 to put up a fight with low odds of success, which is fine for him. x4 is a perfect match if ur into that whole "saiyan pride" thing. But OP probably wouldn't know about that :p

Without kaioken, frieza 6/10.

i vaguely remember this thread being done before.

Goku 5/10

frieza 6/10

Goku

Goku has never beaten someone 4x his strength without kaio ken. Like ever. He hasn't even beaten someone double his strength w/o kk. No one to distract for spirit bomb, Goku loses 100% of the time. The only difference is IT, and he has to concentrate for it

Yeah. Goku wins.

Some logic backing "Goku wins" would be nice... how does he beat an opponent 4x his strength without kaioken or a tag team partner to cover while he charges a genki dama? Can anyone provide a feat if him beating someone double his power? Cuz it doesn't exist

not 4x but 40x.

in Namek saga, Goku had 3 000 000, Frieza had 120 000 000.

but still, i believe Goku wins this at base form with no kaioken.

Goku at end Buu saga became very powerful, powerful enough i think to beat Freiza at base form, because of Zenkai effect : this ability make saiyajins become multiple times more powerful, for instance Vegeta's 1st zenkai made him jump from 18 000 to 24 000, in his 2nd zenkai he jumped from 24 000 to 35 000, in his 3rd zenkai he jumped from 35 000 to 60 000, in his 4th zenkai he jumped from 60 000 to 120 000, and in his 5th zenkai he jumped from 120 000 to 2 500 000. we can see that zenkai keeps giving exponential increase in power, and we know that Goku, after his fight with Freiza, had atleast 3 massive trainings and 5 dealy fights, his power should have increased massively. i can estimate it to reach or exceed 100x.

so basically he can beat Frieza at base form and even easily.

Bills didn't see Goku using his full power at base form to give the right jugement so he was basically wrong. and in the last DBZ OAV before the movie Battle of Gods (not sure if canon) Trunks and Goten easily beat Abo and Cado who were equal to Frieza. and of course Goku and Vegeta are more powerful than Trunks and Goten.

Goku could kill Final form Frieza with a cough at that point

@all_mighty_beyonder: I'm pretty sure Goku's base power at EOS was around 3,000,000 ..Friezas is 15,000,000. So yes, goku wins easilly with kaioken. Without it, no.

(Goku's power as read by Babadi's meter was converted from killis to conventional numbers on the dbz wiki...150 million, or 100x as strong as he was when he fought Frieza. Taking that nice, easy number and dividing it by 50 for the ssj multiplier that was active at the time, n we get 3 million....or 100x stronger than base goku was when he fought Frieza lol). I'd even go as far as to say Goku stomps, cuz holding kaioken is nothing to him after maintaining his ssj form for weeks on end. A x4 would match Frieza, x10 would crush him, x20 is his last known use of it which he had no trouble using for the longest fight in the series, and hypothetically he could press it higher yet under x50, at which point his body must transform to contain all that power. I'd say x30 is a possibility, with harsh penalties of course. But that's just for lols.

Goku's base power during his fight with frieza was 300,000, not 3,000,000

This fight is 3 vs 15 in Frieza's favor. Goku has never beaten someone double his strength+ without kaioken. There is no way goku can win, and every other answer is just wrong proven by fact^ this is the most accurate reading of goku's power during the buu saga

Bills even says base Goku cannot beat Frieza. Goku smiles in agreement and doesn't deny it at all

There's a lot of favoritism going on in this thread...people legit saying a God was wrong, ignoring numerical facts? Please. I'm about to abandon this thread so all the wankers can touch each other in peace.

Well... this is just as cannon as anything bills says, seeing how they are both movies... in fact, more so considering its a feat instead of a statement.

i don't know from where you bring those numbers but they are all wrong.

there is no PL at EOS, this is a lie you're beleiving. the last official PL was Trunks PL and it was 5, and it appeared at the beginig of Android saga. that's it.

at Freiza saga Goku had 3 000 000 at base form, and Frieza had 120 000 000 and SSJ Goku at Freiza saga had 150 000 000. any other PLs are all based solely on the opinions of fans.

there absolutly no relation between Babidi's units and normal PL units, any conversion is pure fanboy fantasy.

Bills judged Goku outside of fight, where DBZ warriors keep always their Ki masked. and DBZ OAV proves Goten and Trunks at base form are more powerful than Frieza.

@all_mighty_beyonder: @superdrummer: not really, considering BoTG is the beginning of an entirely new series and no other film is. Also Trunks and Goten are more powerful than Frieza as ssj, not base. Goku was in the middle of training just prior to Bill's arrival, I'm sure the God of Destruction didn't miss any details like his actual power level for that form. He even fully inspected him to see what his body was capable of, poking him for density n whatnot. Frieza 100% and ssj goku were both even at 15,000,000 but Frieza was becoming winded and was losing power, dropping to 12 mill for the duration which is why Goku won. If there was a 30 million power lvl difference the Goku hardly would have taken damage at all, so no. This 120-150 million crap is just that...crap. ur saying kid Gohan jumped from the 20,000,s to....the hundred millions?! No, don't believe the Daizenshuus. Also, I'm not using EOS power levels, I just said my information is based on babadi's meter at the beginning of the saga, which A.T. has confirmed. Its not like I'm pulling these numbers out my ass. You got your numbers from a magazine, I got mine from what Akira Toriyama designated for the series. Thus, mine are more accurate.

http://dragonball.neoseeker.com/wiki/Official_Power_Levels

Just ask ill give u more sources backing this up. Every movie is non canon except BotG, which the exception of Tarble's existance. Kid Gohan also beat Frieza on a movie in base form, do u believe that too?

The point of all this is that Goku in his base form is less than half Frieza's power, which is out of his league.

Also u can do it this way...Goku arrived on Namek at 120,000. Powered up? 180,000. Received Zenkai after Ginyu...300,000. How in Gods name would he jump to 3 million after that? This is just after the Saiyan saga where Goku's base power was below 10,000!!! Ur saying it skyrockets to the HUNDRED millions somehow? That's garbage. Get that trash outta here

Noone goes from under 10,000 to 3,000,000 with only 2 zenkais and gravity training. Zenkai can at MAXIMUM double ones power if that, not multiply it by hundreds. And don't say it was the gravity training or vegeta would be stronger than goku at this point. Like I said....y'all are playing favoritism without checking ur basic math. Its not hard.

@thelocust619:

i don't know if you're trolling or talking seriously. but the source you provided confirm what i say and refute what you're saying.

Goku at base form is 3 000 000 in both PLs designated for the series in the Daizenshuus and designated in the series. you go check it youself.

Frieza was never equal to SSJ, you're assuming things. bring proof of what you say.

i'm using official numbers from the same source you provided imo. just read them. there are 2 different sources but my point stand still.

in the first official source :

Vegeta (not Gohan go read again -_-' ) jumped 18 000~~>24 000~~>35 000~~>60 000~~>120 000~~>2 500 000

in the second official source :

Vegeta jumped 18 000~~>24 000~~>32 000~~>45 000~~>500 000~~>1 200 000

so yeah, zenkai make Saiyans PL skyrocket exponentially in both sources. and that's only 5 zenkais giving 139x or 66x more power , seeing that Goku after Namek saga had about 3 massive trainings and 5 deadly fights he should have PL jumping with 8 zenkais which gives him power up beyond 139x or 66x. meaning Goku at base form stomps Frieza.

Frieza eats Kakarot.