Kaine and Venom (Flash) vs Carnage

In honor of Minimum Carnage, I decided to see what this fight would be like in the battles forums.

Rules:

• Fight takes place in San Francisco streets
• Venom has 2 hand guns, his AK-47, his poison darts, and 4 grenades
• Kaine has no equipment other than his costume.
• No prep.
• Bloodlust on.
• Carnage is not allowed to take control over anyone.

Begin!!!!!!!!!!!!

Carnage stomps.

Carnage. I don't see what they will do to him and flash isn't good enough with his powers to take carnage. The mark of kaine can hurt him but not long enough for carnage to decapitate kaine. But when did flash start using poison darts? I'm a little behind in venom but what issue was this in?

bump.

I need to see more from Kaine against established opponents before I think the team has any chance.

Carange is awsome But Ill always remember him when Sentry riped him in half or when Toxin (patrick) manhandle him. Kaine and Flash.

@CadenceV2 said:

Carange is awsome But Ill always remember him when Sentry riped him in half or when Toxin (patrick) manhandle him. Kaine and Flash.

So? You think Kaine and venom could have fared better against either toxin or sentry?

@jashro44 said:

@CadenceV2 said:

Carange is awsome But Ill always remember him when Sentry riped him in half or when Toxin (patrick) manhandle him. Kaine and Flash.

So? You think Kaine and venom could have fared better against either toxin or sentry?

Together? Yes. I love Toxin. I have all the issues of Patrick Mullingan. However he was (suprise attack mind you) beaten by Spidey. Sentry canbe beaten by anyone who mind raped him. Doesnt matter as Sentry grew into this recockulas (who during Dark Reign gain my repsect) crappy character who finish strong. Nobody could have beaten him but a Pre Retcon Molecule Man.

Carnage.

@CadenceV2: 1. Carnage and venom were beating him until spider-man saved him and then he beat them.

2. ABC logic doesn't work. Venom and carnage both have proven to be to much for spider-man individually yet toxin cannot handle him? Something is pis here.

3. Sentry is outside of anyone's weight class here. He shouldn't be brought up.

4. If you wish to down play then flash was getting stomped by sergei (venom #2) and kaine had a hard time with ana (scarlet spider #6).

@jashro44: Thats cool BRO. Doesnt change MY Opponion. Carnage is a Jobber ever since Maximum Carnage and even that was TERRIBLE writing. Khain and Flash win.

@CadenceV2 said:

@jashro44: Thats cool BRO. Doesnt change MY Opponion. Carnage is a Jobber ever since Maximum Carnage and even that was TERRIBLE writing. Khain and Flash win.

Him being a jobber isn't relevant. There is no pis in battle forums. He is 50 tons they have no answer for his strength. Carnage is faster and stronger he can fight them both combined. In his first appearance ever he over powered both eddie and spider-man at the same time. Explain what the team has done to win.

I could have sworn they venom beat the crap out of carnage in Carnage USA. Kaine is still kind of new for me to say how he would do but he does know how to fight very well. He also has his spikes. I'd say carnage would lose here.

@MetalSonic said:

I could have sworn they venom beat the crap out of carnage in Carnage USA. Kaine is still kind of new for me to say how he would do but he does know how to fight very well. He also has his spikes. I'd say carnage would lose here.

I haven't fully read carnage USA but I recall Flash using sonic weapons on carnage.

@jashro44: Well Khain is Spidey but Ruthless with the Mark that can (if Temporary) affect Carnage and Flash Thompson is Over 25 tons... how I know this? Cause he lift a 61 ton M1A1 Tank.!!! Sooo.....

Unless hes Lifting a WW2 Tank from the Goverment (yeah right) its a 61 Ton M1A1. How do I know this? Well Im Drunk and tell ya. Im a EO for the ACB2 Battalion and did Dozer Ops resonsible pulling these piece of Sh!t out of the Ocean.

So wheres your reasoning now.... hmmmm...... thought so.

I just re read it. Flash uses a sonic grenade launcher which isn't allowed. He did beat up on carnage a little after as well as when they both lost their suits. Carnage has better strength I think. Kaine is I think a 30 tonner, venom is around 60 but carnage pushes 80+. Doesn't mean he would win though as they have all taken hits/punches/falls of great degree that should kill them. It would be close though.

@CadenceV2: 1. Flash isn't lifting the tank fully off the ground. I doubt he is lifting the full 61 tons considering he has no other strength feats at that level.

2. The mark of kaine can hurt carnage but carnage is just going to hit kaine away.

@jashro44 said:

@CadenceV2: 1. Flash isn't lifting the tank fully off the ground. I doubt he is lifting the full 61 tons considering he has no other strength feats at that level.

2. The mark of kaine can hurt carnage but carnage is just going to hit kaine away.

1) LOL I never claim hes 61 Tonner I said 45 for lifting the Back end of it as per Air Force Load Planners on weight contribution and Axcels.

2) Doesnt Matter Theres 2 on one. I have taken down a guy who bench presses twice my wieght with a firend who weigh less than me. So whats your point here?

@CadenceV2: Even assuming you are right flash has shown to affected by slashing damage when Jack slashed him in venom #1 So he can be hurt by a 50 tonner slashing him. Carnage commonly goes for slashing damage. Flash is still at a disadvantage. And can you show me a source which states that the back of a tank is 45 tons?

Neither flash of kaine have taken someone who has them completely outclassed physically off the top of my head.

Honestly Carnage should beat them both. Kaine might cause some damage but Carnage should still cut through them both like a buzzsaw. If they had prep than I see the team winning (Kaine is Peter's clone after all so he must have some science smarts there somewhere).

On another note it looks like Ryan Stegman is drawing one of the issues!!!!!! YAY!!!!!!

@BlueLantern1995: Well Kaine is supposed to be the "Other" Spider-man without a spider-sense so he is physically stronger than both Parker and Flash (who are both around 10-15 toners) as "Other" Spider-man was a 25toner. Having said that they still don't have the durability or the strength to take Carnage down so.......yeah.....Carnage butchers them lol!

@Strider92: Drawing a cover =/= drawing the issue.

Step right up, ladies and gentlemen, step right up and place your bets on the fight of the aliens! Who will win in this spectacular sparring of symbiotes and spiders? In the black corner we have Kaine, scruffy homeless Spider-Man, and Flash, no, not the guy who runs fast, the guy without legs to stand on who still stands tall! In the red corner, you've heard of him, you fear him, his laughter haunts your nightmares the Jok- Wait a minute, what? I mean, the crazy, the carnivorous, the psychopath who won't stop scything his way through the competition, Cletus Kasady, better known as CARNAGE! Place your bets while the bettings good!

@InnerVenom123 said:

@Strider92: Drawing a cover =/= drawing the issue.

Killjoy T.T

Carnage wins.He can go through them fairly easily even.

@jashro44: Unfortanatly I dont have my Load Planners crap anymore. I do know simple science. The Back of the Tank is Slightly Heavier then the Front (However this never comes into play as the Treads Disperses the weight almost Evenly when flat on gorund) thanks to the Engine located in the rear. The add in Lifting the heavier side against Gravity from a Parallel to a high Angle adds more resistance to the weight. He should be a 40-45 Tonner easy.

Also I still stand that Khain and Flash Combine should match Carnage just like Luke Cage (A 25 Tonner), Spider Woman, and Daredevil (those last 2 can be KO or Killed with a single hit quick) more than held off Carnage during the Raft Prison Break in New Avengers. Seriously I think Carnage is overhype at times. He may had the best showings in the 90s but havent seen anything uber impressive since. Carnage couldnt even Kill Black Cat with the quickness in Venom vs Carnage. Overated.

@MetalSonic Post: I can't post anymore due to limits but Kaine beat Rhino unconscious and Rhino is a 100 tonner.

Is this true?

@CadenceV2: This Carnage decked both Iron Man and Spider-man at the same time in Carnage #5. If IM and SM could take him I don't think Kaine and Venom can. I'll get the scans. Iron Man hit him with every weapon he had at the same time and couldn't KO him.

@Strider92: Did he get a Powerboost?

@CadenceV2: Yeah he's not the same as he was before getting ripped in half by Sentry. He's a lot more dangerous now. The miniseries was pretty awesome if you get the chance to read it give it a go!

The art was great :p

I miss Toxin :(

@CadenceV2 said:

I miss Toxin :(

Yeah me too T.T they shouldn't have killed Pat!!!! Marvel I hatez you!!!

@CadenceV2: Your not really making a case for the team so much as a case against carnage...Your example about them breaking out in the raft was written by bendis. This is the same guy which had daredevil 1 shot the gorgon despite the fact gorgon tanked a rocket launcher in the past. He is not a credible writer. The only time black cat laid a hand on carnage in maximum carnage was when he was about to kill spider-man and he was severely weakened from tanking the weapon deathlok was firing. If you wish to use low end feats then kaine couldn't even duck a strike from Aracely which was ducked by Anabelle adams, and flash had a hard time with the fly. What your doing is your using the highest end showings the team has to offer and picking carnages low end feats which is hardly fair.

@jashro44: First off the Bendis Comment. I agree that Bendis does a HORRID Job at making top tier look Jobbers while putting his lower tier as Bada$$es. However it was written and put on panel so unfortantly taken as Cannon.

As for Lower End Showings and Higher End Showings is no different what evryone else been showing for Carnage. He Beats Spidey and Venom. He (now) Beats IM and Spidey. Then go on to say "flash hasnt done anything impressive yet. Khain is just a lower level Spider Man. I dont know much about Khain but even as a lower Poor man (but Brutal) Spidey hes team up with (by Official Marvel Stats) a Venom of same Stats as Eddie. The Tank Strength test (wether intentional or not) puts him at 40-45 tons. Not fer off from where Carnage was.

However as Strider pointed out to me Carnage has had a Power Boost since Sentry Ripped him in half. So He could now very well Over Power both of them.

@CadenceV2: I have never said flash or kaine were unimpressive I said they don't have feats on carnages level which is true. Consistently they haven't done anything to rank them as a 50 tonner. If we are to use high end feats then spider-man lifted a tank over his head which would massively increase carnages strength by default. I have only been using low end feats to explain why just using low end feats for one side and then play up on higher feats.

Bump.

@CadenceV2: Nice posts I agree Kaine and Flash take this. A fully loaded M1A1 tank is roughly 70 (68 to be more precise) tons, so even if people argue he isn't lifting it all the way it's allowable he's lifting 40-45 tons of that weight. I seem to have found that the symbiote gets stronger with each person it bonds to, like it adds their strength to what it already had...but that's just speculation on my part and can't really be used as argument here. But the Venom symbiote would know Carnage in and out, and would be able to get Flash whatever info he needs to contend. Flash, while not the brightest in the Marvel universe, was a soldier and has shown to have some tactical soundness, although he suffers from a lot of plot dramatics. I don't honestly know much about Kaine, but if he's anything like Peter he can only add, not detract, from Flash.

In my opinion what keeps this a close fight is the Venom symbiote is currently always sedated, thereby weakening its strength and speed. So it could really go either way, mostly because I really don't know what kaine brings to the table. i may be overestimating him.

Bump because the event is finished

Still Carnage. Kaine might be able to inflict a little damage with his burning touch but ultimately Carnage should cut them both down.