Kaguya vs Palpetine

bmp

Kaguya

Palpatine and easy.

Emprah blitzes her head off.

She has no counter to Essence Transfer, or Force Storms, or Force TK, or Mind Rape. She can hide in Limbo, but then that be like self BFR lol.

Kaguya stomps

She doesn't use Limbo... and Limbo isn't used to hide.

Why are you saying she has no counter to palpetines attacks when you clearly don't know who she is.

The one who's plan actually worked... for around 20 years.

She has the technique so others argued for her. If she does not have it, she loses hard core.

@bleu: SFW doesn't like Naruo and has said in the past that telekinesis is better than anything in the Narutoverse so taking him seriously in any Naruto debate is a bad idea

You spelled "than" wrong.

As for Naruto Verse, they have no counter to TK like Star Wars, only Gravity manipulation. They have no counter to decent level telepaths above world level.

Deal with it :/

So you don't even know the character in question...

Proof she can avoid TK that bypasses force fields, and travels star system in distance? Proof she can do anything vs star systems level TP or mind controling worlds star systems away with TP?

Any way to avoid rips in space and time attacks? Maybe drain life on planet scale? Essence Transfer to cast her soul into Chaos? Anything?

Didnt think so.

Kaguya speed blitzes

not happening...

Kaguya.

@purple_d_dragon: Yes it is Palpatine has absolutely Zero Realtivistic+ speed feats sure his reactions may be up there but In order to avoid omni directional attacks at said speed would require one to be as fast as the attacks which he is not besides none of his attacks will land because of her speed and even if they do none of his attacks have the capability of putting her down he has no sealing techniques and he has no planet busting attacks which is what she's been implied to be able to surrvive

Anything on Palpatine's side that suggests that he won't be BFR'd to another dimension?
I still don't get why people make Kaguya threads when she has basically no feats.

@almighty: there is stated speeds of "lightspeed ricochetes" in the novel when Windu and Sidious clash Sabers. Also Anakin himself who can perceive Speeds relativistic was having issue seeing Palpatine move at all. A dark blur to him that seem to vanish in and out of reality from moving so fast.

Naruto has one questionable speed feat in itself, not seeing anything suggesting this featless chick is blitzing.

Kaguya due to better physicals and dc.

. . . well, if we only had feats for Kaguya, man, I know Palpatine wins this. she is not as smart as he is, not as skilled, her speed feats are few and blitzing with teleportation doesn't help when Palpatine has force precognition, he will know where she will be before she even think about it.

in the EU, Palpatine in his max power is LS. or FTL. if you don't believe it, check his duel with Mace Windu in the episode III novelization. he was basically invisible for Anakin, the same Anakin, that in the same novel was reacting to sub light speed ships. (this was decades before Palpatine's prime)

and Palpatine does have sealing powers. he is the most powerful Sith ever, he even knows Sith magic. every force technique you name, he has it (save from oneness and fold space.)

his mind can already do what the Infinite Tsukuyomi does, but he does not require a moon, or magic eyes to do so.

and if we go by win by any means we have Palpatine crushing Kaguya's head with TK.

and as Black Zetsu is not here to help her, Kaguya goes down in seconds. she is terrible at fighting.

and her ice dimension won't tickle Palpatine, who was training in Mygeeto when he was Plagueis Apprentice. he was like 20 then, just beginning his training.

Kaguya, by a long shot.

Kaguya for a quite solid majority. Cool as palpatine is, he's not ready to play in the big league.

kaguya has her eye to counter his precog - plus she has the speed and teleportation advantage.

in the EU, Palpatine in his max power is LS. or FTL. if you don't believe it, check his duel with Mace Windu in the episode III novelization.

...there's nothing in that duel that's light speed. Appearing to blur isn't light speed by any means. Even so, she has already fought naruto, who can react to light speed attacks inches from his face.

he was basically invisible for Anakin, the same Anakin, that in the same novel was reacting to sub light speed ships. (this was decades before Palpatine's prime)

what kind of logic is that? Reacting to ships while driving isn't fighting at high speed in close range.

and Palpatine does have sealing powers.

Some scans or quotes of his sealing techniques? What does he have that can match kaguya?

he is the most powerful Sith ever, he even knows Sith magic. every force technique you name, he has it (save from oneness and fold space.)

While kaguya has absorbed every known jutsu. She has him outmatched there.

his mind can already do what the Infinite Tsukuyomi does, but he does not require a moon, or magic eyes to do so.

Proof? I'm curious to see him doing something on the level of tsukuyomi, even less infinite tsukuyomi, much less a global one.

and if we go by win by any means we have Palpatine crushing Kaguya's head with TK.

The durability. Replacement techniques. Limbo. Dimensional bfr. Or gravitational tk.

and as Black Zetsu is not here to help her, Kaguya goes down in seconds.

Yeah, why not. Black zetsu is the one who did all the work after all. Exposition is important.

she is terrible at fighting.

Based on what? While we don't have anything putting her much better than an experienced fighter, there's certainly nothing hinting she's 'terrible'.

and her ice dimension won't tickle Palpatine, who was training in Mygeeto when he was Plagueis Apprentice. he was like 20 then, just beginning his training.

The ice dimension isn't supposed to tickle in the first place. Acid and lava dimensions, however.. will do a lot more than tickle.

you are boring. if you had good knowledge on both you will give me the reason. I will just explain some things, and stop. I don't want to argue this with you, if you want scans and proves, then some Star Wars fans will search it for you, I have college in a few minutes. so here we go.

her eyes, even being Byakugan didn't help her to avoid Sakura, who is not light speed.

teleporting doesn't help when Palpatine will know if she will use it and where she will be when she use it.

being a blur to Anakin is a LS feat, as Anakin was able to react and see sub light speed ships moving during a space battle and destroy them. that same Anakin was unable to even see Palpatine duelling with Mace. and in the EU Palpatine is far more powerful 20 years after this fight.

essence transfer does not only works on himself, it can be used to kill and resurrect other people. as it is more like soul manipulation. check the wookipedia and the references if you don't believe me, and if you say it wouldn't work on Kaguya, then show me Kaguya resisting her soul/essence being controlled by someone who using this same power escaped the chaos itself.

Another very dangerous and advanced Force technique utilized by the Emperor was the ability to use the Force to transfer his essence, as well as the essences of others, which he used to survive death on at least two occasions.^[162] He had a supply of clone bodies ready to house his spirit until the last one succumbed to his own corrupting power and the sabotage of his subordinates.^[164] He also, when taking over a host's body, overwrote the soul and personality of the being to fully dominate over it. He used this power not only as a pathway to immortality, but also as a particularly cruel and sadistic form of torture; it is known that he killed and resurrected Imperial engineer Bevel Lemelisk seven times as punishment for the destruction of the first Death Star.

---http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Palpatine

and about doing something at Infinite Tsukuyomi level. well, here you have it, check the page if you wish, it has the references of the comic.

Among the Emperor's powers was the ability to channel the collective life essences of billions to sustain himselfand his Dark Side Adepts; his victims would live in a dream-like state while his own power grew. The entire population of Byss lived under this spell until the planet's destruction by the Galaxy Gun.

this is what it took to kill Palpatine for good and send him to the Chaos. it was needed every single deceased Jedi, there was over 10.000 years of Jedi existing in the galaxy. and the Chaos is part of the force. Sidious escaped from that twice. his will was superior to that.

he was defeated over Pinnacle Base by the combined efforts of Luke Skywalker, Leia Skywalker, and then-unborn Anakin Solo.^[169] His power was also such that even after death, it required every single deceased Jedi Knight to keep Sidious from escaping Chaos and wreaking havoc on the Galaxy.

now, Black Zetsu was the one doing almost all the strategic work for Kaguya, she was messing up in many occasions during that fight, and if you ask me to name all the mistakes she made I won't do it, because you know she was a terrible final boss.

acid dimension? lava dimension? do you know Luke learned force fields during his time being Palpatine's apprentice, right? the same force shields that allowed Luke tank teratons of AT-AT fire and walk on Lava.

Palpatine manipulated an entire galaxy and his plan worked for over 20 years. Kaguya's plan took centuries and her plan last less than a day.

you tell me how is better.

Kaguya with BFR.

it says they start in the ice dimension, but the fight can go into the other ones... so ... BFR wouldn't really mean she wins... it is just being in another place of the battlefield.

@princearagorn1here is Palpatine's intellect. you know he did all that, what Kaguya did? Kaguya, not black Zetsu.

Intelligence: A genius: a master of political and psychological manipulation, orchestrated a galaxy spanning conflict as a means to gain absolute power (along with the gratitude and love of the galaxy's people) in the Galactic Republic through the Clone Wars. Used various brush-fire wars, conflicts and various organizations and other situations through decades of scheming to become the undisputed ruler of the galaxy. Easily manipulates and tricks even other masters of political subterfuge such as Prince of the Fallen, Darth Tyranus and the leaders of the Old Republic.

@purple_d_dragon: i would not argue Prince. He wants to think Naruto is Lightspeed due to an questionable feat from the Manga. A single feat. Yet Palpatine done like wise with mace Windu.

Anakin who can see at fraction of Lightspeed fine, cannot even see the fight between Vaapad amped Windu and Palpatine. States boiling with power, and lightspeed ricochets of lethal intent as per the clashing of sabers. yet he will try to low ball Palpatine as less than lightspeed, and stand by the one questionable Naruto fan calc feat of Lightspeed.

Its really sad and he is not worth arguing with.

@sirfizzwhizz: Yeah sure Palpatine is like LS or FTL however that's still slow compared to Kaguya. The Samurai in Naruto can swing their swords that fast at LS. Naruto, Minato, and Madara are physically beat teleportation with their own speed. Naruto did it in a much weaker form. His RSM was slightly faster than Madara. Kaguya was too quick for Naruto on certain occasions. Sasuke is quicker than Palpatine since he is on par with Naruto. Palpatine's speed is not the issue here bud.

His abilities are the issue. He has a decent chance of winning if he stays far away. It would be a good strategy to attack from a distance. Any person who argues that his abilities will not work is trolling you.

Mifune is LS now? . . . and reacting to teleportation has something to do with sage sensing. because the only teleporting attack I know is Sasuke impaling Madara. he teleported his sword. the other people teleported behind and then attacked. I could teleport to Jacky chan's (lets suppose he has sage mode sensing as Madara, Naruto and others had.) back and believe me, he would feel when someone suddenly appear behind him and he will kick my ass.

Naruto only has a feat of Light speed. and everyone just scale for that feat?

smh

Okay let's make things simple. Does Palpatine have the force?

Can the force lift people up and choke them to death?

If so she should stomp. If not she probably still might stomp assuming the force can push away or form a barrier. I'm not sure how Kayuga even wins this.

you said "she" stomp.

Palpatine may look like an old lady. but he is a "He"

Kaguya wins.

Kaguya and very easily.

@purple_d_dragon: Mifune can swing his sword faster than that but he can swing his sword at lightspeed since he has used the technique before. It's called "Flash" every samurai knows it (well not all but most). In Naruto the name of the attacks usually symbolize how the technique functions.

I did not say react. I said beat teleportation like in being fast enough to beat instant movement. Naruto and Minato beat Kamui on multiple occasions, they are the only two characters who have ever touched Obito before he became the host for the juubi. Madara beat Kakashi and Obito's Kamui transportation.

The only characters that are legit lightspeed are the samurai. The top tiers are beyond that.

. . . beat teleportation. . . right. . . like getting before there. . . before he gets instantly there? and LS Samurais. . .

mate, most Naruto fans wouldn't buy that. they had a hard time proving LS Naruto.

@purple_d_dragon: No as in hitting Obito when he was suppose to be intangible since his right eye passively transfers his body and body parts to the other space-time. It is automatic. Naruto was only able to tag Obito when enraged like when hit blitzed Kaguya, while Minato could do it casually. If you go back and read the manga Naruto but mostly Minato are the only people to have damaged Obito.

If you go and read the manga, you'll notice scenes were people tried to attack Obito from behind like Minato did but still phased through him. There was even a scene were Obito tried to touch Rin's face but slipped through.

Madara and Minato did another feat at the same time. Both were faster than Kakashi's Kamui. When Madara defeated Minato they both had that quick exchange in the time it took Kakashi to teleport Obito which is instant. Madara was also faster than Obito's Kamui the one that Obito has to activate.

4th Databook describes Minato's speed, time and space standstill with his natural speed. The same natural speed that beat Kamui. The 4th Databook also clarified the Samurai's abilities and their military. The average samurai is absolutely quicker than most Shinobi is what it stated. Most likely talking about their striking speed being LS. As it then began to explain how their sword movements are lightspeed. It said they make the force/wave of chakra fly to hit the enemy by swinging their swords at the speed of light. That's the mechanics behind the sword technque. The samurai used it on Sasuke then they got blitzed by Sasuke in a sword fight (Sasuke has quicker striking speed like FTL obviously).

The way the speed increased in Naruto was directional. Pre timeskip supersonic, Early Shippuden arcs hypersonic and above, Pain arc lightspeed, 5 Kage Summit arc lightspeed again, 4th Ninja War illogical speed feats lots of them.

not sure if you don't know how Kamui works... or you are just trying to pull a fast one on me. they attack him when he is tangible. he becomes tangible when he attacks or tries to grab someone.

@purple_d_dragon: I can't post scans right now.

There's that chapter where Naruto headbutts Obito in the forests. They collided. Obito states he should have slipped through.

Another chapter. For Minato there's another instance. It's right after he uses the rasengan. He blitzes Obito again and is able to stab him and place a seal. Obito makes a remark.

I don't think that is an excuse. He attacked the Mist ninja on multiple occasions and still was intangible when they tried to attack him without his knowledge. In his fight against Naruto, Kakashi, and Gai there are moments when he tries to touch Naruto but Gai attacks then Obito becomes intangible automatically. Throughout that fight he tried to attack was still intangible.

So much fanboying here atm.

@purple_d_dragon: Obito's Kamui is just like Accelerator's Redirection ability both unconscious (passive) abilities.

Page 242

Ninjutsu, Kekkei Genkai - Kamui

No rank, all ranges, offensive, defensive

Users: Obito Uchiha, Kakashi Hatake

The godly eyes that conquer fate's horizon!! [TN: Epic sentence is epic.]

Coercing into another dimension!!

A dojutsu that transfers objects into the dimension created with the "Mangekyo Sharingan". In proportion to the amount of chakra the user holds, the possibly transferable mass of the target is increased or decreased. A skilled user can also transfer his own body. Furthermore, there's a subtle difference in the powers of the left and right eyes. The left eye hurls distant objects into the dimension by fixating them, the right eye unconsciously makes a body part slip-through by transfering it. Additionally, by having both eyes, "Susanoo" appears and it is possible to apply Kamui's powers to its weapons.

⬆➡ Objects are transfered immediately into the dimension. The distance of the right eye's effect is short. The ability to make the body "slip-through" is the ability of Obito's own right eye.

Mifune? Lightspeed?

What the actual f*ck.

Star wars characters are really that fast dang their fights must be in cinematic time like dbz.

@thevivas: Yep I was like damn one of the fastest samurai in anime.

Konoha's Hundred Leafs #TBA

Heading: The secret techniques of the Samurai sparkle on the battlefield -- all to sharpen their blade

The Samurai who protect Iron country, they spend most days aiming to devote oneself to the study of sword techniques. To directly attack the enemy they study how to most effectively use their body as a tool in such a way that their movements are quicker than those of Ninja, additionally they are determined to polish their blades through sword technique mastery. Now in the present time, they test out their katana skillfulness on the stage of the Fourth Ninja World War!!

← Speed of light sword slash flies and assails the enemy! A single blow from the sword techniques of Mifune's meitou (legendary sword) Kurosawa comply with this!! (I.E. making the force of the slash fly by moving the sword at the speed of light)

It's their destiny... When released on the battlefield their sword techniques achieve maximum brilliance, their chief Mifune is a general, they were brought up through multiple wars, and the power of the Samurai spread to many nations. By means of their military arts, they disciplined others in the existence of the Samurai of the Iron country!!

↓ Sword techniques that have been handed down in the Iron country. The skill of the Samurai is released, steel bisection.

A couple of samurai used the same technique on Sasuke. And few used it in the war against the Juubi.

mutual.

if you had good knowledge on both you will give me the reason.

I actually gave you reasons in the argument, what do you think the comment was? As for knowledge, I am good with canon star wars, not non-canon. Canon sidious is fodder. Non canon is his only chance.

I will just explain some things, and stop. I don't want to argue this with you, if you want scans and proves, then some Star Wars fans will search it for you, I have college in a few minutes. so here we go.

sure. College comes first.

her eyes, even being Byakugan didn't help her to avoid Sakura, who is not light speed.

Ah, whoever told you of that panel failed to mention the context, didn't they? At the time, she was fighting against two characters around as fast as herself: both naruto and sasuke. Sakura can't even move if she's alone around kaguya.

teleporting doesn't help when Palpatine will know if she will use it and where she will be when she use it.

It actually does, because both of them have precog, cancelling it out. And he has no answer to it in the first place.

being a blur to Anakin is a LS feat,

False. Anakin himself has never fought or witnessed anyone fighting at relativistic speeds, much less light speed.

as Anakin was able to react and see sub light speed ships moving during a space battle and destroy them

Keeping up with someone will driving doesn't mean you can fight at these speeds in close range. wth, people can keep up with fighter jets, doesn't mean they can see punches which are less than 50 kph.

that same Anakin was unable to even see Palpatine duelling with Mace. and in the EU Palpatine is far more powerful 20 years after this fight.

Good for him.

essence transfer does not only works on himself, it can be used to kill and resurrect other people. as it is more like soul manipulation.

Basically soul manipulation, which is countered by rinnegan's own soul manipulation.

then show me Kaguya resisting her soul/essence being controlled by someone who using this same power escaped the chaos itself.

What is the corelation between "escaping chaos" and "controlling kaguya"? Elaborate a bit.

check the wookipedia and the references if you don't believe me, and if you say it wouldn't work on Kaguya,

I am saying it wouldn't work - essence transfer is not something new to someone like her, even ino has body switch techniques, which were countered by sakura.

and about doing something at Infinite Tsukuyomi level. well, here you have it, check the page if you wish, it has the references of the comic.

1. He took a while to transform the Byss, it's not instant "Now you're my puppets" like infinite tsukuyomi.

Also, "inducing a dream-like state = infinite tsukuyomi" is quite poor logic. Tsukuyomi is something that traps the victim in a world where all of time, space, matter, is under the user's control. IT traps the victim into a world with contents of their desires.

this is what it took to kill Palpatine for good and send him to the Chaos. it was needed every single deceased Jedi, there was over 10.000 years of Jedi existing in the galaxy. and the Chaos is part of the force. Sidious escaped from that twice. his will was superior to that.

His will is superior to what, chaos, or the jedi?

Also, just to be clear, you're trying to argue this implies palpatine solo >= every single jedi knight that existed till then at once?

now, Black Zetsu was the one doing almost all the strategic work for Kaguya, she was messing up in many occasions during that fight, and if you ask me to name all the mistakes she made I won't do it, because you know she was a terrible final boss.

Her being a terrible character doesn't mean anything in the series implied she was a terrible fighter as you were originally suggesting.

acid dimension? lava dimension? do you know Luke learned force fields during his time being Palpatine's apprentice, right? the same force shields that allowed Luke tank teratons of AT-AT fire and walk on Lava.

...so he's going to... make a forcefield forever in the acid dimension. Very efficient. And kaguya can rip through his forcefields like butter with bijuu bombs. Also, You're talking as if teratons is impressive at this level.

Palpatine manipulated an entire galaxy and his plan worked for over 20 years. Kaguya's plan took centuries and her plan last less than a day.

wow, that's not a power, that's his manipulation skill. That's not going to help him with a bijuu bomb to his face.

you tell me how is better.

That's not even a statement. Good thing you are going to college.

True, you wouldn't - that doesn't end well for you considering before.

He wants to think Naruto is Lightspeed due to an questionable feat from the Manga. A single feat.

You're talking as if you know anything about the manga, which have disproven far too many times in the past. The feat mentioned just confirms what was already suggested repeatedly by different showings as @hulkage: was saying, but there was not enough evidence to say that.

Yet Palpatine done like wise with mace Windu.

rofl, "hez blurring! light speed!" argument.

Anakin who can see at fraction of Lightspeed fine,

Anakin can see keep up with ships when he's a pilot, like drivers can keep up with cars going hundreds of kph. Or pilots with planes. Doesn't mean human hands don't blur to them. Humans clearly fight at those speeds, lol.

cannot even see the fight between Vaapad amped Windu and Palpatine. States boiling with power, and lightspeed ricochets of lethalintent as per the clashing of sabers.

If you understand what "intent" means, there's no need to even elaborate. Try the dictionary. Heck, even accepting that, it's not enought to give him an advantage in the first place.

yet he will try to low ball Palpatine as less than lightspeed,

Ah, the classic "lowballer meanie!! wah wah!" excuse.

and stand by the one questionable Naruto fan calc feat of Lightspeed.

You couldn't disprove what was named, made up of light as described officially, and confirmed by the databook to move at the speed of light - as well as confirmed to be dodged after it was fired. So now you're trying to stand on the lame "It's just fan calc", when literally no fan calc is involved in the feat.

Its really sad and he is not worth arguing with.

You just have to start crying in your very first reply. lol.