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#1 Edited by Sovereign91001 (4843 posts) - - Show Bio

After being contacted by a mysterious benefactor and a long plane ride to Tehran, Iran your team has assembled. All they know is that they are competing for glory, fame and a prize pot of 100 million dollars. This is high stakes competition where the only thing you can rely on is your team and your wits.

barry You are team 1: You start in the parking lot.

Viper you are team 2: You start in the lobby.

Winner by KO, Death or Incantation.

Prep Materials: Nothing special; glass, furniture, alcohol (The high class kind), ropes and a few abandoned cars.

Tag me if you need a ruling or when you're finished debating.

thetruebarryallen

  • Post COIE Bane
  • Post COIE Deadshot
  • New52 Deathstroke
  • 616 Bullseye

Perks: Why Can't We Be Friends? Blades & Bullets

The_red_viper

  • Pre 52 Oliver Queen
  • X-23
  • Wolverine
  • Will Treaty

Perks: Morals Off, Prep Time

Pick four characters; all media welcome

First come, first serve.

Ammo is unlimited

Only one version of a character can be picked (example you pick Spider-Man, he's now off the table however SpOck, Ult. Spider-Man etc. are still available)

New 52 and Post Crisis characters are considered separate unless other wise stated.

All Marvel 616, feats are applicable.

All characters will have Standard Gear (meaning what they normally carry), basic knowledge, (unless they have prior knowledge) and are in character.

Fights may be won via K.O, Death or Incap.

You may select two perks for your team from the list below; those perks will stick with you for the remainder of the tournament so choose well.

Team chemistry will come into play (there will a perk to make your team all work together but it will cost you a perk slot), Language barriers are not an issue.

If I (or anyone else) feels a character is over limits, I will flag that character, it's up to the person who chose said character to prove they fit within the constraints (with feats; you may pm them to me if you wish), if you fail to do so you have to pick another character. My ruling is final.

Hoping for sixteen players but we can roll with eight.

Limitations

Strength: 25 tons

Speed: Spider-Man level

Durability: Base; Bulletproof. With Gear; Grenade resistant. An RPG should kill your character.

Energy Projection: Cyclops with visor on.

Destructive Capability: Tank Busting

Energy Absorbtions: Bishop

Healing Factor: Wolverine

Psychics: Telepathy limited to defensive stuff; mind reading, linking etc. T.K. at 1 ton or less.

Ban's/Limitations

No BFR

Fantomex’s Misdirection (or like abilities)

Gorgan’s Stone Stare (or like abilities)

Daken's Pheromone's (or like abilites)

Technopathy

Instakills, Autowins etc.

Pre-Cog over the Spider Sense

Tele dismemberment

Tele drop

Tele frag

Mind Rape

TK Crush

Soul rape

Matter Manipulation/Transmutation

Power Absorbtion

Power Mimicing

Power Negation

Reality Warping,

Midnighter’s Battle computer

Time Manipulation.

Magic/Enchanted items are allowed; provided they follow the other regulations.

Outside help (support staff's etc.) is not allowed.

Space Manipulation (Carrying an armies worth of gear or w/e) is not allowed. In the case of such characters they are allowed to bring everything that they could reasonably carry on their person.

Duplication is limited to two copies.

Construction is allowed however gear may not surpass any of the above limitations and is limited to whatever is on hand in the battlefield.

Perks (Can select two)

Prep Time: Gives your team six hours to make a plan and or build stuff and explore the battlefield beforehand, the battlefield cannot be altered and additional knowledge can be gained.

Advanced Recon: You're granted full knowledge of *two* of your opponents characters gear, powers, weaknesses etc.

Telepathic Team Link: Your team is linked together telepathically.

Morals Off: Your team will kill without hesitation or remorse, their mental states and emotional states remain in character.

Why can’t we be friends? : Your team all cooperates and will work together as if all existing personality clashes/enmity and bad blood didn't exist.

Give me some Backup! : Grants your team complete control of a 6 man squad of S.H.I.E.L.D Agents outfitted in Civil War style Cape-Killer armor (includes gas masks, hover discs, com units, tranquilizer darts and paralyzer lasers).

I like Ninjas!: Gives your team complete control of a 6 Hand Ninja (includes ninjato, shuriken and Kusarigama)

Blades and bullets: You may turn each member of your team’s bullets/thrown weapons/arrows into adamantium. Or your characters hand held weapon can be transformed into an Adamantium version of itself.

Silent as the Wind: Completely silence’s your team's movement, heartbeat and breathing (any other noise they make can be heard normally)

#2 Edited by Sovereign91001 (4843 posts) - - Show Bio
#3 Edited by The_Red_Viper (4167 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm sure you're at least somwwhat familiar with Ollie, X-23 and Logan. But Will isn't that much of a familiar character, so I'll give you some info about him as a start The computer's taken, and I'm stuck with the crappy laptop, so may be I won't be able to be very active today.

So, back to business, Will Treaty:

Skills:

  • Marksmanship: Will is a master marksman. He can teach Green Arrow a thing or two about archery, being able to shoot arrows in rapid succession and with uncanny accuracy. He is also an expert with throwing weapons such as throwing knives and Strikers (details later).
  • Stealth: Will's stealth skills make Ezio Auditore look like an elephant in a china shop. He's able to move silently and without being seen. He is also adept in scaling trees and structures.
  • CQ fighting: While it's not his greatest trait, Will is definently no slouch when it comes to close quarters, and can use his knives very efficiently.
  • Strategy: Will truly shines on strategic thinking. Beating the odds time and time again, Will has planned and executed countless missions that involve sabotage, going undercover, sieging castles while being rediculously outnumbered, and more. Over his years as a Ranger's apprentice, followed by being a ranger by his own right, Will has shown amazing creativity and wits. He will use the prep time very wisely.
  • He can also play the mandola. Just though you might wanna know.

Equipment:

  • Bow and arrow: Will carries a powerful longbow (draw weight is about ~80 lbs). He carries a quiver and 24 arrows. A popular saying in Araluen (Will's homeland) is that a Ranger carries the lives of twenty four men in his quiver.
  • Double scabbard: Will's scabbard holds two knives: one is a small throwing knife, and the other is called a Saxe knife, which is larger and more suited for melee, but Will has shown to be able to use it as a throwing weapon just as well as he uses the smaller knife.
  • Strikers: Two small, blunt weapons that can be used to take out targets silently. They can be screwed together to make a club, that is also suited to serve as a throwing weapon.
  • Thumbcuffs: A set of special cuffs that were developed by the Ranger Corps. Very hard to escape.
  • Cloak: Will's Ranger cloak. Suited for camoflague. Along with Will's stealth skills, the cloak makes Will pretty much impossible to detect.

Just a question, @sovereign91001: Does my team know who they are facing (not as in knowledge of their powers, gear, etc, like the Advanced Recon perk gives, just their names)?

#4 Posted by The_Red_Viper (4167 posts) - - Show Bio
#5 Posted by Sovereign91001 (4843 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_red_viper: All characters have basic knowledge...that is to say they know what their opponents look like and have a general idea of their powers.

#6 Edited by The_Red_Viper (4167 posts) - - Show Bio

@sovereign91001: So Wolverine and X-23 can't brief Will and Ollie on everything they know of Bullseye? Same goes for Ollie on the DC characters.

#7 Edited by Sovereign91001 (4843 posts) - - Show Bio

All characters will have Standard Gear (meaning what they normally carry), basic knowledge, (unless they have prior knowledge) and are in character.

Any prior knowledge is carried over. So yes you can.

#8 Edited by Sovereign91001 (4843 posts) - - Show Bio
#9 Posted by The_Red_Viper (4167 posts) - - Show Bio
#10 Posted by TheTrueBarryAllen (5860 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_red_viper: I've got 2 classes today, then I'm spending time with my girlfriend & then have an improv comedy show to do tonight with an afterparty afterwards.

I can begin if you'd like but it'd be tomorrow, so feel free to start it off if you wanna get it going quickly :)

#11 Posted by The_Red_Viper (4167 posts) - - Show Bio
#12 Posted by The_Red_Viper (4167 posts) - - Show Bio

@sovereign91001: Where in the lobby do I start, next to the C flag? And where in the garage does Barry start?

#13 Posted by Sovereign91001 (4843 posts) - - Show Bio
#14 Edited by The_Red_Viper (4167 posts) - - Show Bio

@sovereign91001: Sweet. Let's see then:

So, I'll post my strategy in a nutshell:

First things first-prep time: Those 6 hours are going to be marvously used. I'll have Ollie brief the team on everything he knows about Bane, Deadshot and Deathstroke (which is quite a lot. Although this is New 52 Slade, he isn't too different from Pre-52. If I'm not mistaked he had Promethium armor then, right? Which meant that his face were vulnerable, just like now. So even if the Nth Metal is stronger, my guys aren't going to target his torso anyway). Wolv and X23 will share their knowledge on Bullseye as well. While your team has no prep time, so your DC guys have no idea who Wolv, X23 or Will are, and Bullseye doesn't know who Ollie or Will are. Those 6 hours also give me other significant advantages:

  1. I can study the battlefield (pun not intended) inside and out. Your team, on the other hand, would have no clue where they're going.
  2. Will is going to find a good spot to hide. As I mentioned, his stealth skills are uncanny. I'd post a quote from the books but I actually don't have them near me at the moment so that'd have to wait until tomorrow.
  3. Ollie will prep with the most suitable trick arrows he can find. He can give Will some too, and show him how to use them. With morals off, that's very dangerous.

Well, Will is obviously my best stealthy character, but Ollie, Logan and X23 are no slouches either when it comes to sneaking. Knowing the battlefield beforehand would give them one heck of an advantage. The biggest threat in your team would be the adamantium, of course. BUT! You can't shoot what you can't see. If your guys decide to split up, all the better. My guys would take them out silently and individually. If they go clustered together, then either Will or Ollie fire an AoE arrow at them (such as the flashbang arrow, sleeping gas arrow, stun grenade arrow etc), which would give them a larger window of opportunity to fire some more arrows, like the explosive arrow, the greek fire arrow, stuff like that. A well placed shot into any of those guys' eye would be a killing shot. Alternatively, Wolv or X23 can go there and waste them.

Sneaking up on my team isn't going to happen thanks to Wolverine's and X23's keen superhuman senses.

So, long story short: Knowledge of the battlefield and of the enemy, along with stealth, the trick arrows' versatility, and superhuman senses that can guarentee nobody's sneaking up on us, is a lot to deal with, and quite frankly I don't think your team is up to this.

I'll post a more detailed argument tomorrow or something, with scans and quotes and stuff.

@thetruebarryallen

#15 Edited by TheTrueBarryAllen (5860 posts) - - Show Bio

Alright, let's get this show on the road.

Meet the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse, my team of mercenaries fulled by a desire for that $100,000,000.00 cash pot reward.

Bane | Bullseye | Deadshot | Deathstroke

My Perks

Blades & Bullets - You may turn each member of your team’s bullets/thrown weapons/arrows into Adamantium. Or your characters hand held weapon can be transformed into an Adamantium version of itself.

Why can't we be friends - Your team all cooperates and will work together as if all existing personality clashes/enmity and bad blood didn't exist.

The Team

Bane

Bane is a fearless combatant, holding the title as the only known being to 'Break the Bat'. Through a combination of hand to hand prowess and incredible wit, Bane is able to make short work of his foes. Though Bane is commonly known for his usage of the drug known as 'Venom' he does not require it and is actually very strong without it, kicking his addiction he was able to bring his physicality to impressive levels through sheer determination and willpower. Bane is also an incredibly loyal ally and will not give in or forfeit information about his team or their whereabouts.

Skills & Abilities

  • Combat Skill - Bane commonly fights using grapples & holds opposed to an acrobatic showing. His brute strength is commonly displayed in combat as he can lift 1,500 tons without the usage of Venom. He is capable of breaking Killer Croc's bones & has gone toe to toe with various Superhumans.
  • Agility - Though Bane appears to be large and possibly clumsy his appearance is deceiving. He has been able to catch Batman off guard while sneaking through the shadows.
  • Durability - Bane has impressive durability for a non-meta human. Throughout his history he has been shown to shrug off powerful blows from numerous foes, bullets, and elemental blasts.
  • Photographic Memory - Bane possess a photographic memory, allowing him to retain information with complete perfection.
  • Escapeologist - Bane is actually an impressive escape artist, slightly below the levels of Batman & Nightwing.

Equipment

Bane has no equipment in this scenario.

Feat Gallery

The Gallery will be enclosed in the spoiler tag below.

In Scans 1 - 5 Bane get's shot in the shoulder, yet shrugs the wound off and continues thrashing his foes. In Scan 6 Bane removes an electrical collar that was supposed to kill him if he tried to remove it.
In these scans Bane has been captured & is being tortured. He had been hit with over 500 bricks yet still stood strong, eventually freeing himself from one of the chains & killing one of his captors through a vicious bite to the neck. Bane also stood loyal to his team an gave up no information about them or their whereabouts.
Bane was able to keep up with Batman without him knowing he was following him, catching him off guard.
Here Bane defeats Azrael & his Manservent.
Bane had captured Azrael & his Manservent and was carrying them on a boat. Azrael attacked Bane then sending the boat smashing into the rough rocks by the cliff. Bane recovered and actually climbed to the top of the cliff before Azrael and led him to a trap he had set. This shows a variety of fighting skill, durability, and cunning.
Bane takes multiple hits from Catman without showing any sign of pain or discomfort.
Bane takes out a multitude of Cobra agents with ease.
Bane takes on Killer Croc in the sewers. Previously he had broken both of Croc's arms.
Breaks down a prison wall, then beats the crud out of Great White Shark, tossing him out of a hole in the compound into the rocks below.
Takes down members of the League of Assassins.
Eliminates a group of warriors from Skartaris.
Takes an impressive hit from Lightning, stating only that it 'hurt'.

Bullseye

Bullseye is one of the best sharpshooters in the Marvel Universe. His uncanny aim and sadistic nature makes him a force to be reckoned with. Bullseye is also able to turn literally anything into a weapon, though he is shown using traditional tools such as arrows or bullets, he has also been seen using playing cards, tooth picks, coins, golf balls, and even poodles. His many confrontations with Daredevil have conditioned him to fight foes with even the best senses, so he'll prove a formidable foe for the likes of Wolverine & X-23.

Skills & Abilities

  • Adamantium Laced Skeleton - Due to a devastating multi-story fall, Bullseye has had his bones stripped with Adamantium. Due to this upgrade he is able to shrug off powerful blows in hand to hand combat and preform acrobatic feats that some would deem impossible.
  • Expert Marksmen - As one could probably tell from his name, Bullseye is an incredibly marksman. He also posses the uncanny ability to use anything and everything as a weapon. Though Daredevil is capable of dodging bullets and projectiles with ease he has been tagged on multiple occasions by Bullseye.

Equipment

  • Deck of Cards - Bullseye has a traditional 52 card deck of playing cards.
  • Traditional Outfit - Bullseye is wearing his Black/Silver outfit. IIRC this outfit has a Kevlar Weave in it and is able to withstand basic projectiles.
  • Pistol - Bullseye is carrying a single pistol for this encounter, due to the perk it has unlimited Adamantium ammunition.

Feat Gallery

The Gallery will be enclosed in the spoiler tag below.

Here is his biography from one of the official handbooks. It gives an overview of his abilities.
In scans 1-2 Bullseye makes a billion to one shot with a hubcap, destroying the car Deadpool was in. In scans 3 -4 he throws a toothpick from a distance of 100 yards that breaks a window and kills someone.
Some ridiculous projectile feats. Scan 1 shows him knocking out Daredevil with a paper plane while Scan 2 shows him slitting Deadpools throat with a bendy straw.
A fight against Daredevil that results in a rather sad death. Bullseye uses various projectiles in this encounter such as his teeth and a baby.
Another fight against Daredevil that results in 100 + casualties. Throughout this fight he shows some quick kills, impressive accuracy, and his sadistic nature.
Bullseye vs Deadpool. It's important to note that Deadpool was teleporting during this fight and Bullseye eventually KO-ed him by causing an arrow to ricochet into Deadpool's head.
Here Bullseye works with a team to take down a Rouge Hulkbuster & it's Pilot.
Here Bullseye takes down a ton of imposters using his guise. He was outnumbered and outgunned, plus he scored a ton of headshots.
Dodges a multitude of Cyclopes Optic Blasts while firing arrows towards the X-Men.
Some random scans, but cool none the less. Scan 1 shows him launching several arrows into Spiderman while he was posing as Venom, getting past the Spider Sense. Scan 2 shows him pummeling Morgan Le Fay with a barrage of arrows, he's pretty quick.

Deadshot

Deadshot is one of the top marksmen in the DCU, contending even with your very own Oliver Queen. A mercenary who will do practically anything for money, Deadshot is a valuable member to any team of mercenaries. His time with the Suicide Squad & Secret Six has given him a strong tactical mind and good group experience, he even worked with Bane while on the Secret Six. His ruthlessness and killer accuracy constantly keep him in the hunter position, while everyone else in his sights remain the hunted.

Skills & Abilities

  • Expert Marksmen - Deadshot is an expert marksman. His favored weapons are his wrist mounted pistols that he's most commonly seen using. Not one particularly fond of leaving his targets alive, he's become quite good at scoring the 'killing shot'.
  • Reaction Time - Deadshot has an incredibly impressive reaction time. He's able to count the beats of a hummingbirds wings, which are 12 - 80 beats per second.

Equipment

  • Wrist Pistols - Deadshot uses a set of wrist mounted pistols to complete his killings. Due to my perks he has unlimited Adamantium ammunition.
  • Bulletproof Suit - Deadshot has a rather durable suit that he is commonly seen wearing. It is resistant to bullets as he has been shot and assumed dead multiple times, yet always returns.
  • Scanner - Deadshot's helmet comes with a scanner so he can track his targets. His helmet also contains a radio for receiving/sending transmissions.

Feat Gallery

The Gallery will be enclosed in the spoiler tag below.

Deadshots Origin.
This is N52 Deadshot, so this probably doesn't count though I don't see much of a difference between the two characters. However he uses a set of scalpels as projectiles to kill his targets.
Deadshot takes out his target. 'Fire' from the Justice League.
Here Deadshot takes down two opposing gangs by himself. He was shot early on though his armor protected him from any wounds. Throughout the fight he scores a pretty solid number of headshots.
Deadshot vs Green Arrow. This is a pretty essential fight rather relevant to our current situation. He's able to shoot Oliver's arrows out of the air with ease, setting off some of the Trick ones before Oliver intended them to go off.
Deadshot vs The Closer, a bulletproof and incredibly durable foe. He shows em that even though he's tough and durable a few choice shots to the eyes and mouth will kill anyone.
Deadshot takes down the Flash Rogue known as 'The Trickster'.
Some random scans, yet still important. Scan 1 shows he'd rather shoot someone than talk with them. Scan 2 shows him targeting & keeping his aim on a Speedster, Owen Mercer. Scan 3 shows some stylish Trickshots.

Deathstroke

Slade Wilson, more commonly known as Deathstroke, is a super soldier and mercenary. Quickly rising through the ranks of the Military he was selected for a Super Solder program that enhanced his agility, reflexes, speed, strength, and durability. He is a master soldier, skilled tactician, and expert combatant. If there is one thing Slade always gets right it's a job, always fulfilling his contracts without a problem. He's able to adapt to literally any situation and can quickly create a new plan of attack if something goes wrong. His military skills and work as a mercenary will make anyone whose listed on his contracts as good as dead.

Skills & Abilities

  • Tactical Genius - Deathstroke is a tactical genius. His military training & work as a mercenary have given him the ability to adapt to literally any situation presented to him.
  • Enhanced Abilities - Due to the Super Soldier program Deathstroke has enhanced physicals. His armor is also laced with Nth metal which further increased his physical abilities.
  • Weapons Master - Deathstroke is a master of various weapons and is shown to use anything he has to in order to get a job done.
  • Healing Factor - Deathstroke has a powerful healing factor that is amplified by the Nth metal in his armor. He is able to recover from killing strikes within a span of several hours.

Equipment

  • Promethium/Nth metal Armor - Deathstroke has a mostly Promethium suit, though it is laced with an element known as Nth metal. Nth metal increases Deathstroke's strength & his healing factor.
  • Promethium Sword - Deathstroke has a sword that is also made of Promethium.
  • Assault Rifle - Deathstroke uses an M16 Assault Rifle that is loaded with an unlimited amount of Adamantium ammunition due to a perk.

Feat Gallery

The Gallery will be enclosed in the spoiler tag below.

Scan 1 shows an accuracy feat in which he kills a fly with a paperclip. Scan 2 shows his biography in the New 52.
His suit is capable of withstanding heavy fire, he's also fairly capable of dodging. Deathstroke was also able to run fast enough to catch up to the people on motorcycles and behead them.
A demonstration of his healing factor & determination.
Another instance of his ability to take a beating & recover.
Jumps from one plane to another, cuts through it with his sword, and then takes down soldiers based off of Clayface.
Deathstrokes reflexes, the first two projectiles tag him but then he catches the third. It's important to know that he's fighting his son here, Grant, who is just as impressive of a warrior if not better than Deathstroke.
Deathstroke is able to sense a foe by smelling him, and then counters his attack.
Within moments of learning of his target creates a plan to beat him.
Eliminates a squad of 5 Black Ops with ease.
Escapes from cuff's designed to hold Meta-Humans, kills the guards around him, and then upchucks an explosive he had swallowed earlier in order to kill the Warden.
Kills a Warhawk without much trouble.
Stalemates Hawkman in a fight, an impressive display of combat skill.
Takes down an entire group of Mercenaries while in a bar.
The first 'Legacy' hired to kill Deathstroke. He fails.
Fighting the 2nd 'Legacy'. Ends up beheading him with a boomerang.

So now that I've got all my team mates listed, I suppose I should give you the rundown of this fight.

The Battle

On my team I've got a team of mercenaries, commonly seen doing contracts for large sums of money. This entire tournament is one large contract for my team, we'll get 100 million dollars to split if we win, so that'll be a huge driving force for my team.

My team is also used to working as a team!

  • Bane & Deadshot worked in the Secret Six together.
  • Deadshot worked in the Suicide Squad
  • Bullseye worked with the Dark Avengers & Thunderbolts
  • Deathstroke worked with the Alpha Dogs

So none of them are new to the whole 'team aspect' of things and they're all pretty dang good tacticians.

Prep

My team gets no prep time compared to your teams 6 hours. This may be a slight disadvantage for some teams, and works against my team but not in any major way. We'll still be able to discuss our targets on the flight to the arena, and before we leave our starting point my team would be able to give the lowdown on everyone on your team, besides Will.

  • Bullseye gives knowledge on X-23 & Wolverine
  • Bane, Deadshot, Deathstroke give information on Green Arrow

Confrontation

Well you discounted my teams ability to adapt right off the bat, you've also assumed that our senses are horrible.

From the scans I posted it's clear that Deathstroke has significant senses, he'd be capable to sniff out Wolverine since the guy smells like a mixture between Whiskey and Maple Syrup. Also, the moment you fire an arrow at my group we'd be able to quickly react, spot where you fired from, and begin the brawl.

Bullseye & Bane would give Deadshot & Deathstroke some time to fight Green Arrow & Will while they fought off Wolverine & X-23. Bullseye has been shown to tag combatants like Daredevil and Spiderman with his projectiles, so he's got the ability to tag Wolverine and X-23 before they can close the distance between them. If Bullseye got the lovely shot through the eyes with his Adamantium bullets then it'd be game over for Wolverine/X-23, they may be bulletproof but their eyes aren't, so those would be kill shots.

If Bullseye isn't able to get any eye shots but is still able to tag Wolverine or X-23 then they'd be slightly weakened, it's true that they have a healing factor but those Adamantium bullets should cause some pain for our clawed friends. If they try to combat Bullseye in H2H combat then Bane will be there to grab them and throw them away, giving Bullseye more time to target them.

While this is going on Deadshot & Deathstroke are focusing their fire on Will & Green Arrow. In the scans I posted above the marksmenship of both Deadshot & Deathstroke were shown, Deadshot even fought Green Arrow & shot down his arrows and broke the string on his bow. If your team tries to use any trick arrows on us they'll get set off before you intend them too, causing your own team to get hurt in the process. When Deadshot blasted Green Arrows flashbang arrow it caused both of them to be blinded, catching Green Arrow off guard. The Adamantium ammo would be enough to tear through the arrows, and might possibly end up tagging either GA or Will, though if their bow strings are destroyed it'd be just as useful.

The moment that Deadshot & Deathstroke begin overpowering Green Arrow & Will my team does a slight target change. Bane will run towards Green Arrow and proceed to fight him in H2H combat, since Bane is used to fighting foes such as Batman and Nightwing he should be able to tangle with the Emerald Archer. I see this resulting in a Broken Back for Green Arrow.

Deadshot & Deathstoke would turn to aid Bullseye in his battle against Wolverine/X-23, adding even more firepower to the mix. If Wolverine or X-23 get too close then Deathstroke has his Sword, Deadshot has his wrist pistols, and Bullseye has his H2H training. I'm fairly confident that X-23 and Wolverine would get shot down from this sheer amount of firepower, I know they're good at dodging, but we've got 3 expert marksmen focusing their fire on them. I don't see this as a good outcome for your team.

Once Bane is done breaking Green Arrows back he'd turn to Will, whose attempts to harm him with his Scabbards and Club are useless, as Bane's durability is too great for that. Will would try and fight back but Bane would close the distance too quickly, using Green Arrows limp body as a shield and then tossing it onto Will as he got closer. Bane would then press his foot against Will's chest while he grabbed an arm in each hand, then pushing against his chest Bane would tear off Will's arms and beat him to death with them.

He does this often.

Bane, in a frenzy would then turn towards the rest of his team and aid them in the fight against the rest of your team, Wolverine & X-23, if they were even standing at this point, which in all honesty they shouldn't be as my teams combination of firepower & accuracy should overwhelm them.

Your move, @the_red_viper.

#16 Edited by The_Red_Viper (4167 posts) - - Show Bio

Wow LOL, I started writing this comment a few hours back, stopped and came back, and I see you have your own comment now. So, just a question @sovereign91001, can Barry do this?

My team gets no prep time compared to your teams 6 hours. This may be a slight disadvantage for some teams, and works against my team but not in any major way. We'll still be able to discuss our targets on the flight to the arena, and before we leave our starting point my team would be able to give the lowdown on everyone on your team, besides Will.

  • Bullseye gives knowledge on X-23 & Wolverine
  • Bane, Deadshot, Deathstroke give information on Green Arrow

I mean, part of the Prep perk gives me the ability to plan a strategy. A plane ride to Tehran is longer than 6 hours, too. This kinda blows it =\

OK then, let's start the real business.

About gear:

  • Will has the gear I listed in that other comment.
  • Ollie has his usual bow, arrows and trick arrows, and a sword.
  • X-23 has a gun.
  • Wolverine thinks gear is for p*ssies.

About teamwork:

  • Logan and Laura have worked together numerous times and work well with eachother.
  • Will always works on small and diverse teams like this oe. He's shown to be able to easily get along with just about anyone. His role as a Ranger has sent him to countless foreign countries with different cultures and he's shown to be able to get along with just about anyone.
  • Ollie is no stranger to team work, although he doesn't know anyone on my team, there's no reason as to why he wouldn't work well with them.
  • My team has 6 hours prep to get to know each other.

Also, a comment about Logan smelling like Whiskey and stuff-he used 10 minutes of our prep time to take a shower =)

My team's key to success is sticking together. At the beginning of the fight, they're gonna go to the counter you see in 4:00. It provides cover from 3 directions. Wolverine use his super-senses to warn my team of anyone that comes close. Example of Wolverine's senses:

Hears the controlled heartbeats of ninjas that are in another room even though the door is closed.

Another good example:

Smelled the men that were spying on him. They were standing on the roof of a tall building and he still smelled them over the smell of his cigarette.

BTW, Green Arrow also has keen senses. Here he tracks a target who's in another room and pinpoints his location even though there's a wall between them. He them uses an arrow to take him out (notice that the arrow went straight through the wall):

Wolverine and X-23 are going to stay behin that cover. Will and Ollie are going to get in the corners of the room (Will would go to the corner just next to the player on 3:59 and Ollie is gonna go to the other corner across the room). The moment Wolv senses someone, he's gonna warn the others. A gesture would be enough, as to make no noise.

From there, Will and Ollie are gonna used their ranged advantage and the element of surprise to take out the enemy who's approaching.

I'm sure you already know Ollie, but still here's an example of his accuracy:

Not only did he manage to get the ring arrow to GL who was standing far away from him, he also managed to get it between his fingers as for not to wound him. And he did it while having to deal with the swaying of the boat.

And here's how fast he can fire arrows:

He can also use the putting-an-arrow-through-the-barrel trick to make your team's ranged weapons dangerous for you even more than they are to my team. Like this next scan shows:

An example of Will's accuracy that I like, taken from "Ranger's Apprentice 7: Erak's Ransom":

Quote:

Will nocked the arrow and looked around for a suitable mark. He noticed a group of boys fifty meters away, playing a game with a small leather ball.

They used their feet, heads and bodies to keep it in the air, passing it between them without letting it touch the ground. He started looking for a safer area to demonstrate, then glanced back as something caught his eye.

The smallest boy, no more than eight years old, had lost control of the ball, sending it bouncing and rolling until it ended under a flat rock. Laughing, he ran after it and dropped to his hands, knees, reaching for it.

Will Drew, aimed and fired in the space of a heartbeat. His arrow flashed across the oasis, missing the boy's reaching hand by centimeters and ended, quivering, embedded under the rock. The boy recoiled, screaming in terror. His companions echoed his cries, turning to see where the arrow had come from.

A massive fist struck Will backhanded across the jaw. He staggered and fell, the bow dropping from his hands. Umar's face was contorted in rage.

"You reckless fool! Do you think you'll impress me by risking the life of my grandchild? You could have killed him!"

His hand fell to the massive hilt of a heavy dagger in his belt. Will, stunned by the blow, tried to regain his feet but a savage kick from Umar winded him and sent him sprawling again. In the distance, Will could hear the child, still crying in fright, and a jumble of voices calling out - shouting in surprise and anger and fear.

He heard the faint metallic Shringi! the dagger being drawn from its scabbard.

Then Cielema's voice, shrill and urgent, was carrying over the others.

"Umar, Stop! Look at this!"

Umar turned away from the prone figure before him. His wife had been returning with the coffee when she had passed by their grandson and witnessed the incident. Now she was on her knees, reaching for something under the rock. With an effort, she pulled Will's arrow free. With it, held firmly by the barbed broadhead, was the meter-long body of the sand cobra he had shot. The arrow had passed cleanly through the snake's head, killing him instantly.

A second before it can attack the boy.

So, not only was Will able to put an arrow clear through the head of a meter-long snake that was hiding under a rock from 50 meters away, he was also able to draw, aim and fire in less than a second, not to mention that the very fact that he spotted the snake in the first place (before anyone else, including the children that were very close to it), which says a lot about his keen eyesight.

Important note: it all happened while Will was recovering from almost being killed in a sandstorm.

Here's a small feat of Will's sneaking ability, it's really nothing too impressive compared to other feats but I just found it online so I figured I might as well post it:

Quote:

“You've known him how long?" Malcolm asked.

"Since he was a small boy. I firs noticed him when he slipped into Master Chubb's kitchen to steal some pies."

"So, what did you have to say to Will when you caught him stealing these pies?

"Oh, I didn't let on I was there. We rangers can be very unobtrusive when we choose. I remained out of sight and watched him. I thought he might have potential to be a ranger." Halt said.

Horace joined in "Why?"

Halt answered carefully. "Because he was excellent at moving from cover to cover. Chubb entered 3 times and never noticed him. So i thought that if he could acheive that with no training, he would make a good ranger."

I believe it's from "Ranger's Apprentice 9: Halt's Peril".

Here's a quote about a Ranger's ability to remain undetected even if he's standing in plain sight. This is Halt, not Will, who does this, but Will has equal skill. I have in mind a few good occasions of Will's ability to sneak and go undetected, but it's hard finding them in those 11 books. You'll get them at some point, but that's what I have thus far.

Quote:

Halt stood motionlessagainst the massive trunk of an oak tree as the bandits swarmed out of the surrounding forest to surround the carriage. He was in full view but nobody saw him. In part this was due to the fact that the robbers were totally intent on their prey, a wealthy merchant and his wife. For their part, they were equally distracted, staring with horror at the armed men who now surrounded their carriage in the clearing.

But in main, it was due to the camoflague cloak that Halt wore, its cowl pulled up over his head to leave his face in shadow, and the fact that he stood absolutely stock-still. Like all Rangers, Halt knew that the secret of merging into the background lay with the ability to remain unmoving, even when people seemed to be looking straight at him. Believe you are unseen, went the Ranger saying, and it will be so.

"Ranger's Apprentice 3: The Icebound Land".

Notice that there's a fern the corner where Will is. It'd help him blend. He can also shoot down the lamps to cover himself in some shadow.

Throwing-knife skill:

Quote:

Arisaka raised his katana, pointing it at the calm young face. "Who are you, gaijin? What do you know about honor?"

"I'm called Chocho," Will said. "I've seen honor among these Kikori warriors, men I've trained to fight you. They are men who understand loyalty and trust. And I see it now in your own men, now that they recognize the true Emperor of Nihon-Ja. But I see no honor in you, Arisaka. I see a crawling, cowardly, lying traitor! I see a man with no honor at all!"

"Chocho?" Arisaka shouted, goaded beyond control. "Butterfly? Then die, Butterfly!"

He leapt forward, the katana rising for a lethat strike at the undarmed foreigner. But then Will's right arm shot forward from beneath his cloakand he stepped forward with his right leg, going into a crouch as he released the saxe knife in an underarm throw.

A spinning pinwheel of light, it flashed toward the charging Arisaka, hitting him above the breastplate of his armor, below his chin, and burying itself in his throat.

"Ranger's Apprentice 10: The Empreror of Nihon-Ja".

Any enemy that comes from the door next to Will would find a knife in his throat before he knows what's going on. Or an arrow from Ollie in his eye, alternatively. Any enemy coming from where the C flag is would be shot down by Will and Ollie before he knows what's going on. Also, the fact that I have 2 archers means that I can deal with 2 enemies simultaneously. If a group of more than 2 enemies would come together, then Logan would warn Ollie, who would fire an AoE arrow. He has plenty of arrows that could be extremely useul in this, like: Explosive, flashbang, stun grenade, sleeping gas, Greek fire. They wouldn't have time to react since the arrows would come at them by surprise (in the Deadshot VS Ollie fight you posted, Deadshot was able to shoot Ollie's arrows only because he knew they were coming. He can't shoot them if they come by surprise).

Here's the flashbang, for example:

From there, I have a number of options.

1. Ollie can use a bola arrow to disarm your team:

2. Take them all out with an explosive. Here's an example of its radius (top right panel):

I know it's Connor and not Ollie, but Connor was using Ollie's arrows in that arc.

3. Knoch them out with a boxing glove arrow:

Again, same arc. KO's a man with 1 shot.

4. Do that arrow-in-the-barrel trick I showed you earlier.

5. Constrict you. Green Arrow has a mummy arrow that can constrict your team to eachother. Dodging the arrow would be useless since the whole point is that it passes near you and doesn't hit you directly (coming to think of it, it wouldn't work since you're disoriented and can't react):

Another good arrow for that purpose is the coccoon arrow:

And of course the traditional net arrow:

6. Have Wolverine and X-23 charge at your guys. Here's Wolv dodging bullets from a fully automatic rifle:

Not that it matters, since your team is disoriented/blinded/stunned, and are unable to use their guns.

I'm sure I don't need to tell you about his melee fighting skills and strength. But here are a few examples nontheless:

As for his healing factor, having his throat sliced by X-23's adamantium claws means nothing to him and he shrugs it off effortlessly:

So your adamantium weapons wouldn't be much of a factor against Wolverine.

Here's a nice speed feat where Wolverine slices through a number of needle-darts thrown at him:

Now some X-23:

Combat skill:

Healing factor-you know Wolverine's healing factor is scary good? Well X-23's is better (which means your adamantium projectiles would be useless against her too):

She can re-attach body parts:

She is also a genius on combat tactics:

Thinks of 27 different ways to kill a guy in mere seconds. Imagine what she can do in 6 hours.

Also, remember she has a gun. She's shown great skill with guns, like here:

BOOM triple headshot!

So she would be shooting at your team while charging.

While fighting Wolv and Laura, your team would also have to deal with arrows from Will and Ollie. Their arrows can't hurt either of them, so they don't really risk hurting their comerades.

Regarding Bane's durability: I won't deny, it's good. But not good enough to stand after being sliced with adamantium claws. Bane is strong, but Wolverine has fought on even terms with Thing, who is definently stronger than Bane. Oh, and Will doesn't fight with the scabbards, lol. He carries his knives in them.

As for Deathstroke's armor: his face is left unprotected, and he's also susceptible to blinding and concussive effects of flashbangs and stun grenades. Not to mention sleepin gas. Given that he only recovers from lethal injury after several hours, he can be easily taken out.

Here's a good way of taking out Deadshot: the Feedback arrow. It attracts and follows anything that's electronically based, like Deadshot's Scanner:

I can also make traps. Ollie's explosive arrows can be remotely detonated. He can fire such an arrow on a tactical location and wait for your team to get close, and detonate it. Also, if it gets physical between your team and Wolverine and X-23, Ollie can shoot a timed explosive that would detonate several seconds after it's fired. Your team can't fight my guys AND keep track of the explosive arrow, so they would get trapped between a rock and a hard place.

Now, conclusion:

  • My team's biggest edge is the knowledge of the battlefield. They would go for cover the moment the fight starts.
  • Logan's senses are more than enough to alert my team about anyone who approaches.
  • Any individual who approaches my team would be put down quickly by Green Arrow/Will.
  • Your team can't react fast enough to the incoming arrows since they all come by surprise, especially when they can't even see Will, whose stealth skills are uncanny.
  • If your team stickes together, Green Arrow would disorient them with an AoE trick arrow. From there, he has many other trick arrows that can be used to take your guys out.
  • Your team has nothing against a charging Wolverine and X-23, especially when they have to deal with arrows and bullets as well.
  • Green Arrow can set up explosive traps.
  • Each of your team's strengths can be countered by my own team's strengths, while your weaknesses can be taken advantage of by our strengths.
  • Batman has spoken:
Doesn't that qualify for a default victory?

As an ending statement, I must say that your comment was very well written and comfortable to the eye, the feat gallery idea is very good, I might use it in the future.

@thetruebarryallen

#17 Posted by TheTrueBarryAllen (5860 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_red_viper: I'll respond to all of this either tonight or tomorrow, but as a direct response to my 'Prep'.

I figure my team can walk and talk at the same time, we're given basic information on your team so I don't see why we wouldn't share it while we move through the compound.

#18 Edited by The_Red_Viper (4167 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_red_viper: I'll respond to all of this either tonight or tomorrow, but as a direct response to my 'Prep'.

I figure my team can walk and talk at the same time, we're given basic information on your team so I don't see why we wouldn't share it while we move through the compound.

By all means. But discussing prep and strategy during the flight seems a bit too much, I'm sure you understand.

#19 Posted by TheTrueBarryAllen (5860 posts) - - Show Bio

@thetruebarryallen said:

@the_red_viper: I'll respond to all of this either tonight or tomorrow, but as a direct response to my 'Prep'.

I figure my team can walk and talk at the same time, we're given basic information on your team so I don't see why we wouldn't share it while we move through the compound.

By all means. But discussing prep and strategy during the flight seems a bit too much, I'm sure you understand.

I mean, my entire team is a group of mercenaries who are commonly sent on incredibly dangerous missions. They're used to creating plans on the fly. From the scans of Deathstroke he pretty much has a plan for everything, since he's been given basic knowledge I don't see why it's too much for him to create a plan and inform the rest of the team of this said plan.

As for my team telling each other about the guy's were gonna face..

  • Green Arrow - Guy who dresses like Robin Hood, uses trick arrows, incredibly liberal.
  • Wolverine - Canadian, gruff and tough, good h2h combatant, has a healing factor and some razor sharp claws, aim for the head.
  • X-23 - Wolverine in girl form.
  • Will - We have no idea who this guy is.

We're not really gathering any specific materials to take them down, my team still is using standard gear. You've been given 6 hours from time of arrival to explore the entire battlefield and create a specific strategy. My team gets there 6 hours after you've planned and explored, I don't see what the big issue is I guess :|

#20 Edited by The_Red_Viper (4167 posts) - - Show Bio

@thetruebarryallen: Hm, that's fine I guess, I was getting the impression you're gonna plan your entire strategy on that flight... nevermind. And by the way, just found another good stealth feat for Will:

Quote:

Curiously, he worked his way closer to it, sliding through the night with barely a sound, moving quickly from one patch of cover to the next, until he was just at the outer ring of light thrown by the fire-a spot where he knew the darkness, by contrast, would seem more intense to those sitting around the fire.

"Ranger's Apprentice 2: The Burning Bridge". Will was able to sneak into an encampment and got as far as being just outside the ring of light thrown by a campfire (that had numerous men around it). They never knew he was there, and notice how it says he moved with barely a sound.

And here's another nice one:

Quote:

"Well, they can't ger 'ere too soon for me," said Erak, rising and stretching. "I'm for sleep, lads, just as soon as I've done the necessaries."

"Well, don't do 'em 'ere by the fire," said one of the others irritably. "Go up behind them rocks there."

Horrified, Will realized that the Skandian had gestured toward the rocks where he was hiding. And now Erak, laughing at the other man, was turning and heading his way. It was definently time to go. He scuttled backward a few meters, then, crawling rapidly on his stomach, used all his training and natural skill to blend with the available cover.

He'd gone perhaps twenty meters when he heard a splashing sound from the spot where he'd been eavesdropping. Then he heard a contented sigh and, looking back, saw the shaggy-haired form of Erak silhouetted against the glow of the hundred or so campfires in the valley.

Realizing that the Skandian was intent on what he was doing, Will slipped through the darkness and back into the tunnel. He went carefully for the first few meters, allowing his eyes to become accustomed to the dim light of the torches. Then he began to run, his soft hide boots making barely a noise on the sandy floor.

Also from "Ranger's Apprentice 2: The Burning Bridge". It's the ending of the same chapter as before.

And a third:

Quote:

Still the commander's suspicions weren't satisfied. For a long moment, he stared into the bushes, looking straight at the spot where Will lay, wrapped in the protective camoflague of the Ranger cloak. The apprentice found himself staring deep into the angry red eyes of the savage thing out on the road. He wanted to drop his eyes away from that gaze, convinced that the creature could see him. But all of Halt's training over the past year told him that any movement would be fatal, and he knew that dropping his eyes could lead to a tiny, involuntary movement of his head. The true value of the camoflagued cloaks lay not in magic as so many people believed, but in the wearer's ability to remain unmoving under close scrutiny.

Forcing himself to believe, Will remained motionless, staring at the Wargal. His mouth was dry. His heart pounded at what seemed like twice its normal rate. He could hear the heavy, rasping breathing of the bearlike figure, see the nostrils twitching slightly as it sampled the light breeze, testing for unknown scents.

Finally, the Wargal turned away. Then, in an instant, it whipped back again to stare once more. Fortunately, Will's training had covered that perticular trick as well. He made no movement. This time, the Wargal grunted, then called an order to group.

Also, from "Ranger's Apprentice 2: The Burning Bridge".

Notice that the events of these books all happened when Will was an apprentice, only one year after starting his apprenticehood. This is book 2 out of 11, so Will had 9 other books to train and hone his skills. Will ends his five-year apprenticehood at the end of the 6th book (though the 7th is a fill-in of the events between the 4th and 5th book, so to be fair Will ends his apprenticehood after 7 books).

#21 Posted by Sovereign91001 (4843 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_red_viper: No you don't know who your targets are until your teams arrived in Tehran. Since you have prep we'll assume your team arrived six hours before his.

#22 Edited by Sovereign91001 (4843 posts) - - Show Bio

Correct

@the_red_viper said:

@thetruebarryallen said:

@the_red_viper: I'll respond to all of this either tonight or tomorrow, but as a direct response to my 'Prep'.

I figure my team can walk and talk at the same time, we're given basic information on your team so I don't see why we wouldn't share it while we move through the compound.

By all means. But discussing prep and strategy during the flight seems a bit too much, I'm sure you understand.

I mean, my entire team is a group of mercenaries who are commonly sent on incredibly dangerous missions. They're used to creating plans on the fly. From the scans of Deathstroke he pretty much has a plan for everything, since he's been given basic knowledge I don't see why it's too much for him to create a plan and inform the rest of the team of this said plan.

As for my team telling each other about the guy's were gonna face..

  • Green Arrow - Guy who dresses like Robin Hood, uses trick arrows, incredibly liberal.
  • Wolverine - Canadian, gruff and tough, good h2h combatant, has a healing factor and some razor sharp claws, aim for the head.
  • X-23 - Wolverine in girl form.
  • Will - We have no idea who this guy is.

We're not really gathering any specific materials to take them down, my team still is using standard gear. You've been given 6 hours from time of arrival to explore the entire battlefield and create a specific strategy. My team gets there 6 hours after you've planned and explored, I don't see what the big issue is I guess :|

#23 Posted by The_Red_Viper (4167 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_red_viper: No you don't know who your targets are until your teams arrived in Tehran. Since you have prep we'll assume your team arrived six hours before his.

That's good for my strategy. Your team will have to brief eachother on their foes only after the fight starts, which eould help Logan (and probably the others as well) to determine their location. @thetruebarryallen

#24 Edited by TheTrueBarryAllen (5860 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_red_viper: I'm visiting my parents today as I've been in College for awhile and they miss me, so I'll be able to respond to this sometime around 8 - 9 PM. Sorry for any inconvenience.

#25 Posted by The_Red_Viper (4167 posts) - - Show Bio
#26 Posted by TheTrueBarryAllen (5860 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_red_viper:

Alright, time to respond to all this.

"Well, Will is obviously my best stealthy character, but Ollie, Logan and X23 are no slouches either when it comes to sneaking. Knowing the battlefield beforehand would give them one heck of an advantage. The biggest threat in your team would be the adamantium, of course. BUT! You can't shoot what you can't see. If your guys decide to split up, all the better. My guys would take them out silently and individually. If they go clustered together, then either Will or Ollie fire an AoE arrow at them (such as the flashbang arrow, sleeping gas arrow, stun grenade arrow etc), which would give them a larger window of opportunity to fire some more arrows, like the explosive arrow, the greek fire arrow, stuff like that. A well placed shot into any of those guys' eye would be a killing shot. Alternatively, Wolv or X23 can go there and waste them."

You do have some stealthy characters, but once the battle begins I don't see stealth as being that great of an asset. The Adamantium on my team should be able to tear through your team like butter, besides Wolverine & X-23, though the projectiles can still harm them if they hit the right areas, if a bullet sinks itself through the skin, between the ribs, and into Wolverine's Heart I don't see that having a good ending. My team doesn't plan on splitting up, that wouldn't be a good idea for them and none of them are really the type to just run off somewhere else, they know they need to work together to pull off a victory. As for firing off an AOE arrow that's not a smart choice, as we saw from the scans I posted of Deadshot v. Green Arrow he tried to fire off a Flashbang and it ended up getting shot by Deadshot causing it to go off before GA was ready. If this happens again then the arrow would get set off and stun both teams, Deadshot can still fire his own AOE projectiles that cause some pretty decent explosions that'd wreck havoc, and Bullseye has been blinded & still fought before. As for a shot to the eye, I don't know if you'd be able to breach the armor of Deathstroke or Deadshot with arrows, as their armor is bulletproof. The same goes for your team, but you don't have any facial protection, and 3 members of my 4 person team are known for their sharpshooting abilities.

"Sneaking up on my team isn't going to happen thanks to Wolverine's and X23's keen superhuman senses."

I don't doubt that your team has fantastic senses, and I'd be lying if I said they didn't. Though Deathstroke has been shown to have some pretty great senses as well & would be able to warn my team that we were about to step into a confrontation.

"So, long story short: Knowledge of the battlefield and of the enemy, along with stealth, the trick arrows' versatility, and superhuman senses that can guarentee nobody's sneaking up on us, is a lot to deal with, and quite frankly I don't think your team is up to this."

The knowledge of the Battlefield helps, but if we're staying in ONE area to duke it out it won't be all that much of a problem. My team can adapt and retaliate. My team can also shoot down your trick arrows before they're able to actually do any harm, and a members of my team also have some Superhuman Senses & Reflexes. My team is INDEED up to this :)

"My team's key to success is sticking together. At the beginning of the fight, they're gonna go to the counter you see in 4:00. It provides cover from 3 directions. Wolverine use his super-senses to warn my team of anyone that comes close."

Perfect, if Wolverine & X-23 are in that small cubic area shown at 4:00 it means that the roof above them can be blasted by Deadshot causing rubble to fall onto them and crush them, putting them out of the game until they're able to uncover themselves or heal. This leaves a 2 v 4 in my favor, and since my team can easily shoot your trick arrows out of the air and cause them to fail it should be a brutal beat down. By the time Wolverine & X-23 are free from the rubble they'll be targeted by Deadshoot who can keep up with Speedsters, Bullseye who can tag Daredevil with projectiles, and Deathstroke who tagged a fly with a paper clip. Bane is there too to throw rocks or whatnot, but it's not a good outcome for you.

I see you've posted scans of Wolverine dodging bullets, but the guy whose firing at him isn't known for being a skilled marksman, I mean, he's just a random guy with a gun to my knowledge. Deadshot is DC's top sniper, Deathstroke is the top Mercenary, and Bullseye is known for being able to hit nearly anything, he scored a 1 billion to 1 shot with a hubcap to launch Deathstroke out of a car. I know that Wolverine is capable of dodging bullets fired from novices or thugs, but from such experienced killers he's going to have a tough time, and I don't see him coming out on top in this fight, even with his healing factor. It's possible to lodge bullets through his mouth, eyes, and rib cage. If Deathstroke used his Promethium Sword he could send it up through the ribcage right into Wolverines Heart, the same goes for X-23. Healing factor & Adamantium bones does NOT mean unkillable, if that was the case then Bullseye would never die.

"Healing factor-you know Wolverine's healing factor is scary good? Well X-23's is better (which means your adamantium projectiles would be useless against her too"

Well I hope it's not better than Wolverines, as the limit for this tournament in terms of healing factors IS Wolverines! Anyways, like I said earlier, Healing Factors don't mean the person is unkillable.

As for the scans of X-23 using a gun in combat she doesn't seem all that great. Sure, she scored some headshots but any trained soldier should be able to score some headshots. She actually fails her mission in that scan if I'm reading it correctly, plus she was standing still when she was using that gun, if she tries to run and fire her aim will be worse, the bullets won't pierce Deadshot/Bullseye/Deathstrokes armor, they could lodge themselves into Bane but from the scans I showed earlier he shrugs off bullets.

"While fighting Wolv and Laura, your team would also have to deal with arrows from Will and Ollie. Their arrows can't hurt either of them, so they don't really risk hurting their comerades."

Deadshot was able to shoot the string of Ollie's bow, I see no reason why he's not able to do that again thus putting him out of commission. Bullseye could do the same to Will, and so could Deathstroke. Once the bows are broken those teammates will be much less effective, and the Trick Arrows would be pretty much useless because nether Ollie or Will could through them at a speed that's deadly to my own team. As for the arrows not harming Wolverine or Laura, they would, they could recover from it, but an arrow lodged in their skin would still hurt.

"Regarding Bane's durability: I won't deny, it's good. But not good enough to stand after being sliced with adamantium claws. Bane is strong, but Wolverine has fought on even terms with Thing, who is definently stronger than Bane. Oh, and Will doesn't fight with the scabbards, lol. He carries his knives in them."

Bane would get sliced up by Wolverine or X-23 if it was a long fight and he was alone. However he's only there to guard Bullseye while he keeps Wolverine & X-23 at bay with his projectiles, lodging them into their kneecaps to slow them down, targeting their eyes, stuff like that. Bane's job is to lift em up and toss em away in case they get too close, he won't be going head to head with any of them. Also, regarding the scabbards, I made a silly mistake :) Still, the knives inside wouldn't really harm Bane, and he could disarm him just like he did to Joker, an incredibly UNPREDICTABLE foe.

"As for Deathstroke's armor: his face is left unprotected, and he's also susceptible to blinding and concussive effects of flashbangs and stun grenades. Not to mention sleepin gas. Given that he only recovers from lethal injury after several hours, he can be easily taken out."

Deathstroke's face isn't left unprotected, he's still got a mask. My team is just as susceptible to blinding & concussive effects of something like a Flash or Stun Grenade as your team is, and considering Deadshot was able to set off GA's Trick Arrows before he intended them to go off he could do the same to catch your team off guard. Plus, you're underestimating Deathstroke's healing factor, he's been impaled by his own sword through the chest, then beaten up, and he still fought back. He's just as tough a nail as Wolverine is, the combination of his natural healing factor & the Nth Metal he has in his armor makes him incredibly dangerous.

"Here's a good way of taking out Deadshot: the Feedback arrow. It attracts and follows anything that's electronically based, like Deadshot's Scanner"

That'd be incredibly useful if it was the only electronically based object in this entire area, but it isn't. So it's not a guarantee that it'd lock onto Deadshot, and if it did he could either dodge it and then blast it or cause it to lock onto something else.

"I can also make traps. Ollie's explosive arrows can be remotely detonated. He can fire such an arrow on a tactical location and wait for your team to get close, and detonate it. Also, if it gets physical between your team and Wolverine and X-23, Ollie can shoot a timed explosive that would detonate several seconds after it's fired. Your team can't fight my guys AND keep track of the explosive arrow, so they would get trapped between a rock and a hard place."

Bane had an entire building fall on him and he survived, Deathstroke had a Nuclear Submarine dropped on him and explode and he survived that, Bullseye and Deadshot are speed demons and could move out of the way, I'm positive that Bane & Deathstroke could do the same. As for keeping tabs on your team, every member of my team has had experience fighting a large group by themselves and they're fully capable of making sure they're watching everything. If you shoot an arrow at my team WHILE they're fighting X-23 & Wolverine then they'll get caught in the blast too, so that's a lose-lose situation, especially if one member of my team shoots the arrow before it gets to it's desired location causing a premature detonation.

  • My team's biggest edge is the knowledge of the battlefield. They would go for cover the moment the fight starts.
  • Deadshot could blow it away with his explosive projectiles.
  • Logan's senses are more than enough to alert my team about anyone who approaches.
  • Deathstroke's senses are pretty prime too, my team would know what they're stepping into.
  • Any individual who approaches my team would be put down quickly by Green Arrow/Will.
  • Your arrows can't really harm 3 out of the 4 members on my team, their armor is pretty resistant. Plus the arrows can get shot down.
  • Your team can't react fast enough to the incoming arrows since they all come by surprise, especially when they can't even see Will, whose stealth skills are uncanny.
  • Deadshot was able to keep his target on Owen Wilson as Captain Boomerang, who was a speedster and was moving at superspeed. I don't see why we're unable to see, the location you're at has tons of windows for natural light and you're not going to shoot the sun out.
  • If your team sticks together, Green Arrow would disorient them with an AoE trick arrow. From there, he has many other trick arrows that can be used to take your guys out.
  • Once again, I hate to keep saying this but AoE Trick Arrows CAN go off before they're intended too. I've got MORE marksmen on my team than you do, the arrows are gonna get blasted.
  • Your team has nothing against a charging Wolverine and X-23, especially when they have to deal with arrows and bullets as well.
  • It's not like my team has guns to shoot Wolverine or X-23 in the eye with, and it's not like I've got members in my team who could tag Owen Wilson or Daredevil, oh wait.. I do :) Plus, my team is bulletproof due to their armor, well, everyone besides Bane.
  • Green Arrow can set up explosive traps.
  • That he can, and I explained what would happen above.
  • Each of your team's strengths can be countered by my own team's strengths, while your weaknesses can be taken advantage of by our strengths.
  • I honestly think my team can take our team down, you have counters for my team but I have counters for your counters. You also don't seem to be addressing the fact that DS was able to disorient GA by causing his trick arrows to go off before GA planned them too. Wolverine & X-23 aren't immune to losing a fight just because they've got healing factors, if that was the case then they'd never lose anything.
  • Batman has spoken
  • I don't agree with Batman. Trick arrows are silly.

I look forward to your counters. If you don't have anything to say or have the desire to go onto voting I'm ready.

#27 Edited by The_Red_Viper (4167 posts) - - Show Bio

@thetruebarryallen: Well then!

You do have some stealthy characters, but once the battle begins I don't see stealth as being that great of an asset.

Well that's kinda true, since I posted this first comment before doing any planning and watching the video and all.

Now, regarding all you've said about shooting my arrows mid flight:

This is the scan you keep refering to:

It's easy to see that Deadshot and Ollie were standing face to face, and Deadshot was ready for Ollie firing those arrows. In our fight, however, Deadshot would have no idea where Ollie is, and you can't prove he can react to arrows coming to him by surprise. There's no guarantee he'd even know they're coming until they hit him.

Plus, there's another thing-those two arrows:

1st-Coccoon, 2nd-Net

If you watch these scans' you'll see that even if Deadshot shot those arrows, it would do him no good. The net arrow launches the net in mid-air so shooting the arrow would be useless. Same goes for the coccoon: the arrow launches the coccoon right off the bat, and since it's somewhat of a mass of strings, shooting it wouldn't be to useful as well. So Ollie can use one of those instead of the AoE arrows, and that would definently work.

Perfect, if Wolverine & X-23 are in that small cubic area shown at 4:00 it means that the roof above them can be blasted by Deadshot causing rubble to fall onto them and crush them, putting them out of the game until they're able to uncover themselves or heal.

There are 2 major flaws here, however:

1-You're assuming Deadshot knows where my team is. He's gonna have to find us first.

2-Even if Deadshot found out about my team, which isn't going to happen, Wolverine would sense he's above them, just like he did in the scan I showed you. He's also going to smell the explosives and get himself and X-23 out of the way. Plus, if he senses someone above them, he could tell GA to shoot an explosive right underneath them, which would cause the floor beneath their feet to collapse. Coming to think of it, GA can boobytrap the entire ceiling around my team with explosives, to be ready for such a scenario.

I see you've posted scans of Wolverine dodging bullets, but the guy whose firing at him isn't known for being a skilled marksman, I mean, he's just a random guy with a gun to my knowledge.

That's true, but it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter whether the guy shooting at Wolverine is a random mobster or a master marksman. Bullets don't have reflexes. If Wolv could dodge bullets from one gun, he could dodge bullets from the other. Once the bullet is fired, itdoesnt matter who's the man who fired it. Catch my drift here?

If Deathstroke used his Promethium Sword he could send it up through the ribcage right into Wolverines Heart, the same goes for X-23.

It's not gonna be as easy as you're making it sound like. Wolverine and X-23 are trained, hardened, brutal killers. Not some fodder thugs. They have fought men with swords before. But, Deathstroke is going to be either disoriented or constricted/trapped in a net, and he's gonna have to deal with arrows and bullets coming his way as well.

As for the scans of X-23 using a gun in combat she doesn't seem all that great. Sure, she scored some headshots but any trained soldier should be able to score some headshots. She actually fails her mission in that scan if I'm reading it correctly, plus she was standing still when she was using that gun, if she tries to run and fire her aim will be worse, the bullets won't pierce Deadshot/Bullseye/Deathstrokes armor, they could lodge themselves into Bane but from the scans I showed earlier he shrugs off bullets.

Well, she's not that bad either. And either way, those guys were very far away from her. Your guys are gonna be a few meters from mine. And it doesn't matter whether her aim is perfect, your team would still have to deal with the bullets coming at them, along with arrows, not to mention Wolv and X-23 themselves.

Deadshot was able to shoot the string of Ollie's bow, I see no reason why he's not able to do that again thus putting him out of commission. Bullseye could do the same to Will, and so could Deathstroke.

Well that could work if they knew where Ollie and Will were. But like I said, I have the element of surprise on my side. They're gonna have some trick arrows on them before they even know where Ollie and Will are.

Furthermore! Ollie's explosives traps can guarentee you're not gonna shoot down any arrows. If Ollie fires an explosive arrow into some corner where your team won't notice it, and detonate it the moment they're coming, it would catch them unaware and do some damage, and moreover-it would distract them and give Ollie the perfect window of opportunity to fire whatever arrows he wants at your team.

and the Trick Arrows would be pretty much useless because nether Ollie or Will could through them at a speed that's deadly to my own team.

Well, even if their bowstrings were to be shot, which isn't going to happen, throwing the arrows would still be effective since your team would be fighting Wolverine and X-23. Ollie would throw his arrows while Will would quickly sneak around your team. Then he's gonna wait for the right moment and strike. He could slit someone's throat, knock them to the ground, knock them out with his strikers, and more.

Well I hope it's not better than Wolverines, as the limit for this tournament in terms of healing factors IS Wolverines! Anyways, like I said earlier, Healing Factors don't mean the person is unkillable.

Dangit, you're right. Well, anywho, there's nothing to back that up except for what Wolverine said, which isn't necessarily true.

Bane would get sliced up by Wolverine or X-23 if it was a long fight and he was alone. However he's only there to guard Bullseye while he keeps Wolverine & X-23 at bay with his projectiles, lodging them into their kneecaps to slow them down, targeting their eyes, stuff like that. Bane's job is to lift em up and toss em away in case they get too close, he won't be going head to head with any of them. Also, regarding the scabbards, I made a silly mistake :) Still, the knives inside wouldn't really harm Bane, and he could disarm him just like he did to Joker, an incredibly UNPREDICTABLE foe.

I disagree. Bane isn't on par with either Wolverine or X-23 in terms of either strength or speed, and one slice from their claws would be enough to severely injure him. If they tag his heart/throat, it's an insta kill. They can lob off his limbs, and even his head, like a hot knife through butter.

About Will and the knives, he isn't going to disarm him since he isn't going to get any close to him. He would be busy fighting Wolverine and X-23, and Will and Ollie would keep him away with arrows. And about Joker... yes, he's unpredictable, but given the fact that Bane doesn't know Logan, X-23 or Will makes them just as unpredictable as Joker. All three of them are much stronger and more skilled than Joker as well, of course.

Deathstroke's face isn't left unprotected, he's still got a mask.

I don't think that his mask is Promethium or anything like that. Do you have a scan to back that up?

Plus, you're underestimating Deathstroke's healing factor, he's been impaled by his own sword through the chest, then beaten up, and he still fought back. He's just as tough a nail as Wolverine is, the combination of his natural healing factor & the Nth Metal he has in his armor makes him incredibly dangerous.

I'm not underestimating his healing factor, but it can't compete with Wolverine's or X-23's. Plus, in one of the scans you've shown, Deathstroke healed from a fatal injury in hours while Wolverine and X-23 hel from such injuries in seconds.

Bane had an entire building fall on him and he survived, Deathstroke had a Nuclear Submarine dropped on him and explode and he survived that,

Well that's more for the purpose of distracting you. Plus, as I said earlier, I can boobytrap the ceiling and make it drop on you.

Bullseye and Deadshot are speed demons and could move out of the way, I'm positive that Bane & Deathstroke could do the same.

That wouldn't happen. It's the whole purpose of a trap-catching the foe unaware. So, if Ollie were to detonate an explosive that would catch your team by surprise, they wouldn't be able to avoid it.

As for keeping tabs on your team, every member of my team has had experience fighting a large group by themselves and they're fully capable of making sure they're watching everything.

If Ollie were to fire a timed explosive while Wolv and X-23 fight your team, then your team would have to keep track on both Wolv and X-23, and on a timed explosive. They wouldn't even know when it's gonna detonate.

If you shoot an arrow at my team WHILE they're fighting X-23 & Wolverine then they'll get caught in the blast too, so that's a lose-lose situation, especially if one member of my team shoots the arrow before it gets to it's desired location causing a premature detonation.

Not really, since those kinds of explosions mean as much as mosquito bites to Wolv and X-23.

So now all that's left is to counter your counters to my conclusion:

Deadshot could blow it away with his explosive projectiles.

He's going to have to find us first, and even if he does, a combination of Logan's senses and Ollie's traps could take care of that.

Deathstroke's senses are pretty prime too, my team would know what they're stepping into.

In your scan where Deathstroke caught that flying yellow guy, he only did it because he could hear him coming. It's impressive by itself, but not relevant to our fight. He isn't going to hear my team coming because they're not coming.

Your arrows can't really harm 3 out of the 4 members on my team, their armor is pretty resistant. Plus the arrows can get shot down.

The regular arrows, no. But Ollie has a ton of trick arrows that can harm your bulletproof guys: Explosives, AoE arrows, freezing arrows, net/coccoon arrows, boxing glove arrows and more. As for the shooting them down-it won't work since I have the element of surprise.

Deadshot was able to keep his target on Owen Wilson as Captain Boomerang, who was a speedster and was moving at superspeed. I don't see why we're unable to see, the location you're at has tons of windows for natural light and you're not going to shoot the sun out.

That has nothing to do with shooting arrows that come by surprise. In the Owen Wilson (great actor BTW) scan, Deadshot was prepared for him. Same in the Deadshot VS Green Arrow fight. Neither of them had the element of surprise. If Deadshot would realize that there's a speeding arrow making its way toward him, then it's only gonna be when the arrow is about to hit him, and he won't be ale to shoot it in time. Moreover, he can't shoot down the net/coccoon arrows. As to not seeing Will, he has plenty of feats of "hiding in plain sight". There's the instance where Halt was leaning against a tree and nobody was able to see him-I know it's not Will but they have the same skills. If I find anything with Will doing something similar, I'll make sure to post it here, there are just too many times when Will was sneaking and it's been over a year since I read the last book.

Once again, I hate to keep saying this but AoE Trick Arrows CAN go off before they're intended too. I've got MORE marksmen on my team than you do, the arrows are gonna get blasted.

I hate to keep saying this too: The arrows ain't getting shot down.

It's not like my team has guns to shoot Wolverine or X-23 in the eye with, and it's not like I've got members in my team who could tag Owen Wilson or Daredevil, oh wait.. I do :) Plus, my team is bulletproof due to their armor, well, everyone besides Bane.

Like I explained earlier, their accuracy doesn't matter if Wolv and X-23 can dodge bullets. Besides, Wolv and X-23 have a very short distance to cross in order to reach your team. By the way, does this Owen Wilson guy have any connection to Deathstroke?

That he can, and I explained what would happen above.

That you did, and I countered it above.

I honestly think my team can take our team down, you have counters for my team but I have counters for your counters. You also don't seem to be addressing the fact that DS was able to disorient GA by causing his trick arrows to go off before GA planned them too. Wolverine & X-23 aren't immune to losing a fight just because they've got healing factors, if that was the case then they'd never lose anything.

Regarding the shooting my arrows down thingy-already been over that. Regarding Wolv's and X-23's healing, well, I know they aren't immune to losing a fight. But I just don't see anything that any of your guys can throw at them that would be too much for them to deal with. Wolverine has dealt with adamantium before, like I showed you.

I don't agree with Batman. Trick arrows are silly.

Also, there are a few other trick arrows I'd like to bring in this discussion:

1. Ice Arrow-shown to be able to freeze a car entirely:

I can use it to incapitate any individual in your team. I can use it in a combo with the net arrow to trap you and then freeze you. Ollie can give Will one of these and have him fire it after he fires the net arrow (or vice versa, doesn't really matter).

2. Glue arrow-it can stick your team in place.

Can be used after an AoE arrow that would disorient you, then the glue arrow would make sure you can't move.

3. Smoke arrow-worst comes to worst, I can blind you with the smoke arrow and make a run for it. Then I would find a different spot and wait for you.

As you can see, it's powerful enough to blind Darkseid.

4. Acetylene arrow-to be honest I'm not too sure what it does, but I think it can cut through your bulletproof vests:

Middle panel.

Well that would be all for now. Do you wanna call on the voters?

#28 Posted by TheTrueBarryAllen (5860 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_red_viper:

Sure, closing arguments for us and then we can call the votes.

Also lulz, I have no idea why I said Owen Wilson when I meant Owen Mercer, I mixed Slade Wilson and Owen to get that awful actor!

Closing Argument

You've got a good team but I didn't see a strategy that I think would work, you continue saying that my team has NO IDEA where yours is when that's just false. The moment that Will & Ollie fire their arrows towards my team we'll know where you are. In the level/map that we're on there are HUGE glass windows letting tons of natural light in COMBINED with the fact that there are a good number of lights hanging from the ceiling. I know you said you'd shoot out the lights but it doesn't mean that there isn't any light coming into the room, there is still lots of light and GA's bright green suit wouldn't really help him blend in with those white walls, the same goes for Will in the fact that Deadshot has a thermal vision & could spot him that way.

The element of surprise is useful, I'll give you that, and if I thought that it was a win all - end all I would've just stayed down by my flag and made you come to me, but a silly waiting game like that is pretty lame. In your post you also mentioned that Wolverine & X-23 are brutal, hardened, killers and that Deathstroke would have a hard time stabbing them with a sword because of that. You're undermining Deathstroke, he was trained in the military and joined at age 16, became the most talented and decorated soldier, then became a super soldier, then began his life as a mercenary whose JOB was to kill people. He's fought other trained soldiers, mercenaries, and meta-humans, I think he'd know how to put his sword through Wolverine.

You also said something about how it doesn't matter whose on the other end of a gun, if someone can dodge bullets then they can dodge bullets. This isn't true, Daredevil would constantly be able to dodge bullets if I fired them because I'd have NO idea what I'm doing, whereas he's been tagged by a Marksman such as Bullseye. Being a top Marksman means that they don't just shoot at where you currently are, they shoot at where you're going to be. They predict the pattern of movement. I know it's easy to want to say ' THEY'VE DODGED BULLETS IN COMICS THEY'LL NEVER BE HIT' but it's just not true, characters who can dodge bullets get tagged all the time, it's just a thing that happens and they're not immune to it.

A reason why I hate dealing with Wolverine & X-23 or ANYONE with a dang healing factor on this website is because people sort of assume that they're immune to damage. Explosions? Meh doesn't mean anything. Getting limbs cut off? Psh they'll grow back. Harm their vital organs with bullets or swords? They'll just fight through the pain. Healing Factors DO NOT MEAN that it's impossible to either bring them down, knock them out, or kill them, it's difficult to do so, but they still feel pain and they can still die. Wolverine's SKELETON is made out of Adamantium, not his entire body, so it's clearly possible to blend up his squishy insides. The ribcage is an example of this, bullets could easily go through the gaps between ribs and tear through either their lungs or their heart. The eyes and mouth are another alternative, a shot through the eye would both blind the foe and then lodge the bullet into their brain, I think in a tournament like this a bullet into the brain is considered dead or KO-ed. I haven't seen any scans of Wolverine or X-23 recovering from a bullet inside their eye socket within seconds.

As for Wil's hiding in plain sight & sneaking, we're in broad daylight. Atleast ONE of my guys has Thermal Vision. When an arrow comes towards my team once you attack my team will know where the heck your team is, they'll see GA's green outfit and they'd see Will, because they're actively searching for him. In that tidbit you posted earlier I'm assuming it was dark ( a time wasn't specified ) and the robbers/muggers/highwaymen/bandits weren't searching for a Ranger, they were focused on their robbery. My team isn't a team of basic thugs just because they don't have any real 'powers', they're some of the most talented and most skilled mercenaries in their respective universes and they've got plenty of experience dealing with people who try and hide.

The last thing I want to address is your prep with the Trick Arrows.

Green Arrow has used a lot, and I mean A LOT of Trick Arrows in his time. Though during the prep you're given you're not in the Quiver or the Arrow Cave or whatever he calls it now, you're at the current battlefield. GA won't be able to just make some new trick arrows out of the materials you've been given since they're all incredibly basic, like rope or abandoned cars. In the OP it states that the prep materials you're given are 'nothing special'. So he's only going to have on him what he'd normally have on him and throughout your strategy you've just been listing off tons of different trick arrows/changing your plans. Your original plan was, if I'm reading this right, to flash bang my team and then hit them with Greek fire or 'other trick arrows' until we're dead. Now you're saying that you'd use a net arrow or a cocoon arrow to start it off, but then you're also saying that you could set up some explosive traps if need be as well. The current layout of the map doesn't allow GA line of fire through the doors we'd be coming through, so you'd just cause us to blast away the rubble from the explosive trap. There are two sets of stairs that lead from the Parking Garage ( my start ) into the Reception/Lobby (your start) and they're not visible from your current hiding spots, so you're not going to unload this constantly changing barrage of Trick arrows at my team the moment they step into the area.

My team may not have powers, but they're the best at what they do. Bullseye has fought and tagged the likes of Spiderman and Daredevil who I'd put above Wolverine in terms of dodging abilities due to their radar sense & spider senses. Deadshot is the worlds best Sniper and Deathstroke is the top mercenary. Bane may not seem like much because he's large but he's fought plenty of fast warriors in his day, he grew up fighting and if he dies he's gonna die fighting, I have faith that he could get a hold on Wolverine and toss him.

If you'd like to post a closing argument, then feel free. I'm 100% ready to open up the votes.

#29 Posted by The_Red_Viper (4167 posts) - - Show Bio

@thetruebarryallen:

Alright then, I'll post my own closure and then I'm ready to go on voting.

You've got a good team but I didn't see a strategy that I think would work, you continue saying that my team has NO IDEA where yours is when that's just false. The moment that Will & Ollie fire their arrows towards my team we'll know where you are. In the level/map that we're on there are HUGE glass windows letting tons of natural light in COMBINED with the fact that there are a good number of lights hanging from the ceiling. I know you said you'd shoot out the lights but it doesn't mean that there isn't any light coming into the room, there is still lots of light and GA's bright green suit wouldn't really help him blend in with those white walls, the same goes for Will in the fact that Deadshot has a thermal vision & could spot him that way.

Oh, but that's not false at all. Your team does NOT know where mine is. They'd have to look around. And we would have knowledge of where you'd be coming from, and when, thanks to Logan's senses, so we'd be ready to shoot the moment we see you. It's true that Ollie would kinda stand out in the background, but he would see you a moment before you see him, and a moment is all he needs. Furthermore, like I said, I can easily boobytrap the entire area with hidden remotely-detonared arrows.

The element of surprise is useful, I'll give you that, and if I thought that it was a win all - end all I would've just stayed down by my flag and made you come to me, but a silly waiting game like that is pretty lame. In your post you also mentioned that Wolverine & X-23 are brutal, hardened, killers and that Deathstroke would have a hard time stabbing them with a sword because of that. You're undermining Deathstroke, he was trained in the military and joined at age 16, became the most talented and decorated soldier, then became a super soldier, then began his life as a mercenary whose JOB was to kill people. He's fought other trained soldiers, mercenaries, and meta-humans, I think he'd know how to put his sword through Wolverine.

The element of surprise is the key to my success. The 6 hour prep would mean my team knows the battle ground inside and out and knows all the routes that would lead you to us. Logan would alert his comerades when you're about to come. Ollie and Will would know exactly when you're about to show up, and the moment Ollie catches a glimpse of you he'd detonate his traps to distract you, fire a trick arrow to disorient/trap you, and from there you'd be in a huge disadvantage. Regarding Deathstroke, I'm not underestimating him at all. Quite the opposite. He's one of my favorite villains and I'm fully aware of his skills. But, Wolverine and X-23 are just as skilled and Deathstroke would find that putting a sword through either of them to be more of a challange than anticipated, especially when having to deal with a rain of arrows coming at him from two different directions.

You also said something about how it doesn't matter whose on the other end of a gun, if someone can dodge bullets then they can dodge bullets. This isn't true, Daredevil would constantly be able to dodge bullets if I fired them because I'd have NO idea what I'm doing, whereas he's been tagged by a Marksman such as Bullseye. Being a top Marksman means that they don't just shoot at where you currently are, they shoot at where you're going to be. They predict the pattern of movement. I know it's easy to want to say ' THEY'VE DODGED BULLETS IN COMICS THEY'LL NEVER BE HIT' but it's just not true, characters who can dodge bullets get tagged all the time, it's just a thing that happens and they're not immune to it.

I'm fully aware of that, but the difference here is that our teams are not fighting on equal terms here. I have the element of surprise that can guarantee I incapitate/disorient/trap you at the very beginning of the fight. Also, in order to recognize either Wolverine's or X-23's pattern would require more time than the second or two that would take them to get to your team from their cover.

A reason why I hate dealing with Wolverine & X-23 or ANYONE with a dang healing factor on this website is because people sort of assume that they're immune to damage. Explosions? Meh doesn't mean anything. Getting limbs cut off? Psh they'll grow back. Harm their vital organs with bullets or swords? They'll just fight through the pain. Healing Factors DO NOT MEAN that it's impossible to either bring them down, knock them out, or kill them, it's difficult to do so, but they still feel pain and they can still die. Wolverine's SKELETON is made out of Adamantium, not his entire body, so it's clearly possible to blend up his squishy insides. The ribcage is an example of this, bullets could easily go through the gaps between ribs and tear through either their lungs or their heart. The eyes and mouth are another alternative, a shot through the eye would both blind the foe and then lodge the bullet into their brain, I think in a tournament like this a bullet into the brain is considered dead or KO-ed. I haven't seen any scans of Wolverine or X-23 recovering from a bullet inside their eye socket within seconds.

That's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that my element of surprise would put you in a huge disadvantage and would allow me to disorient/trap you right from the start. Wolverine and X-23 have amazing pain threshold, like in the scan where Wolverine shrugged off a slice to the throat, or when X-23 re-attached her leg. The sheer speed and reflexes of Wolverine and X-23, combined with the fact that your team is disoriented/trapped, means there isn't going to be no bullet in their eye sockets. Ollie and Deadshot are old adversaries so Ollie can brief them both on everything Deadshot has to offer. They already know Bullseye so they'd know what to expect from him. All in all, my prep is my greatest advantage in this fight.

As for Wil's hiding in plain sight & sneaking, we're in broad daylight. Atleast ONE of my guys has Thermal Vision. When an arrow comes towards my team once you attack my team will know where the heck your team is, they'll see GA's green outfit and they'd see Will, because they're actively searching for him. In that tidbit you posted earlier I'm assuming it was dark ( a time wasn't specified ) and the robbers/muggers/highwaymen/bandits weren't searching for a Ranger, they were focused on their robbery. My team isn't a team of basic thugs just because they don't have any real 'powers', they're some of the most talented and most skilled mercenaries in their respective universes and they've got plenty of experience dealing with people who try and hide.

Well, theoretically, they WOULD know where my team is. But they're not going to see them, thanks to the flashbang. In the "tidbit" I posted it's safe to assume it was during the day. The carriage belonged to a merchant and his fat wife, people who are far more likely to travel during the day. But nevermind that. Will's concealment skills aren't to relevant here one way or another. The point is, none of your guys is going to have the chance to harm him, or anyone else in my team for that matter. And I'm not underestimating your team at all.

Green Arrow has used a lot, and I mean A LOT of Trick Arrows in his time. Though during the prep you're given you're not in the Quiver or the Arrow Cave or whatever he calls it now, you're at the current battlefield. GA won't be able to just make some new trick arrows out of the materials you've been given since they're all incredibly basic, like rope or abandoned cars. In the OP it states that the prep materials you're given are 'nothing special'. So he's only going to have on him what he'd normally have on him and throughout your strategy you've just been listing off tons of different trick arrows/changing your plans. Your original plan was, if I'm reading this right, to flash bang my team and then hit them with Greek fire or 'other trick arrows' until we're dead. Now you're saying that you'd use a net arrow or a cocoon arrow to start it off, but then you're also saying that you could set up some explosive traps if need be as well. The current layout of the map doesn't allow GA line of fire through the doors we'd be coming through, so you'd just cause us to blast away the rubble from the explosive trap. There are two sets of stairs that lead from the Parking Garage ( my start ) into the Reception/Lobby (your start) and they're not visible from your current hiding spots, so you're not going to unload this constantly changing barrage of Trick arrows at my team the moment they step into the area.

Well I don't see why Ollie can't just bring all his arrows with him and keep the ones he thinks would me most useful. I wasn't changing my strategy, I was adding to it. At the core, it stayed the same all along. My final version is, boobytrapping the area that surrounds my team's ventage point with hidden explosive arrows, detonate those explosives the moment my team catches a glimpse of yours, then either daze you with an AoE arrow like a flashbang, trap you in a net, practically Ollie can do whatever he feels like. After your team's disoriented/trapped/whatever, Wolverine and X-23 would charge at you while X-23 fires her gun and Will and Ollie keep raining arrows at you from a safe distance.

My team may not have powers, but they're the best at what they do. Bullseye has fought and tagged the likes of Spiderman and Daredevil who I'd put above Wolverine in terms of dodging abilities due to their radar sense & spider senses. Deadshot is the worlds best Sniper and Deathstroke is the top mercenary. Bane may not seem like much because he's large but he's fought plenty of fast warriors in his day, he grew up fighting and if he dies he's gonna die fighting, I have faith that he could get a hold on Wolverine and toss him.

Well, Ollie is the world's greatest archer and has amazing feats of marksmanship, reflexes, agility and prep. Will is a full-pledged Ranger, and one of the best there ever were. He can give Ollie a lesson or two about archery. Wolverine is a hardened warrior with around 200 years woth experience, and he has the strength to put him on even terms with Thing, the speed and agility to dodge bullets and slice projectiles mid-flight, the skill to put him on even terms with Iron Fist, not to mention his amazing healing factor. X-23 is also a hardened killer, trained to fight and kill since childhood, and like Wolverine she has amazing physical stats and healing factor. I'm pretty sure she tagged Spiderman too, by the way.

All in all, I must say I really enjoyed this debate, short as it may have been, and you've got some serious debating skills! Let the best debater win ;)

@sovereign91001 We're ready to start the voting.

#31 Posted by kidman560 (7578 posts) - - Show Bio

@sovereign91001: @the_red_viper: @thetruebarryallen: my vote has to go to red viper here. while yall both did great Viper used X-23 and Wolverine perfectly in a great combination and with Will and Ollie being the two most accurate archers ever! they were just superior. kudos to TTBA for trying to do this the hard way. by using characters normally viewed as weak and making them strong. good job. but against some of the best Martial artist in Marvel (wolverine being in the top 3) having ollie use a stun arrow and then sending in X-23 and Wolverine was a great strategy

#32 Posted by The_Red_Viper (4167 posts) - - Show Bio

@kidman560: Thanks man, I appreciate it :) But I dunno why you and Barry are so convinced his team looks weak, I mean Deathstroke is a BAMF and I'm fully aware of Deadshot's and BUllseye's crazy feats, and Bane was always one of DC's best fighters and smartest men in my eyes.

#33 Posted by TheTrueBarryAllen (5860 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_red_viper:

Most of it is due to popularity here on Comicvine, you never really find diehard Deadshot or Bane fans and often times they're placed in mismatched battles so they're seen to lose a lot. They're really not that weak and their incredible abilities make up for their lack of true 'powers' but due to some poor showings they've been given in the past some people view them as weak or incapable.

Also @kidman560, thanks for voting & giving a reason why you think that Viper's team would win instead of just voting without a real reason.

#34 Posted by kidman560 (7578 posts) - - Show Bio

@thetruebarryallen: well also because X-23 and Wolverine are BL you have a problem there the only person more dangerous BL is Deadpool. however Deadshot is a great pick and you got a good pick there

#35 Posted by The_Red_Viper (4167 posts) - - Show Bio

@thetruebarryallen: well also because X-23 and Wolverine are BL you have a problem there the only person more dangerous BL is Deadpool. however Deadshot is a great pick and you got a good pick there

What does BL stand for, again? Sorry for the ignorance.

#36 Edited by kidman560 (7578 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_red_viper: Bloodlusted= Morals off really they are pretty close

#37 Posted by The_Red_Viper (4167 posts) - - Show Bio
#38 Posted by TheTrueBarryAllen (5860 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_red_viper: Wait are Bloodlusted and Morals off the same exact thing?

I often see threads that have them listed separately O.O

#39 Edited by The_Red_Viper (4167 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_red_viper: Wait are Bloodlusted and Morals off the same exact thing?

I often see threads that have them listed separately O.O

I also think they aren't the same... I always though of it being like morals off=I don't care if my opponent dies or not and BL=DIE DIE DIE DIE MOTHERF*CKER DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

#40 Posted by TheTrueBarryAllen (5860 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_red_viper: Yeah, I wish there was a forum for battle terminology that explained different conditions and whatnot, as I think we have the same view of 'Morals Off' and 'Bloodlusted'.

Typically I think that Morals Off means that someone like DD will try to harm his foe, not just incapacitate, but not necessarily go for a killing blow right off the bat.

Bloodlusted to me means that the first moves they're gonna make is to tear out someones throat while shouting in their face in a frenzy.

#41 Posted by Sovereign91001 (4843 posts) - - Show Bio
#42 Edited by TheTrueBarryAllen (5860 posts) - - Show Bio

@sovereign91001: It might help attract other potential voters if the title of the thread had [VOTING] in it, sometimes it will bring in those who were just browsing the forum :)

#44 Edited by Sovereign91001 (4843 posts) - - Show Bio
#45 Posted by TheTrueBarryAllen (5860 posts) - - Show Bio

Cool Beans! I'll keep track of votes too if you'd like.

TTBA - 0

TRV - 1

  • Kidman560
#46 Edited by The_Red_Viper (4167 posts) - - Show Bio

@sovereign91001: For some unknown reason I just love it when people refer to me as TRV.

#47 Posted by i_like_swords (16627 posts) - - Show Bio

@thetruebarryallen: @the_red_viper: Lol you both tagged me :p

Er, right. Tough one.

Having read through the first time I'm going to be giving it to red_viper

I think his archers really sealed the win for him. Knowing that Ollie could pull out any trick arrow, as well as set up explosives during the prep time, made for an extremely versatile opponent. Will also had some great feats of stealth and marksmanship shown.

Barry was fighting an uphill battle due to the prep time. While I did take note of the fact that Deathstroke has an enhanced mental process, and his team can think on their feet, it still doesn't remove the advantage of map knowledge and 6 hours of time to prepare.

All in all though I think it was a solid debate, and I enjoyed reading it. Well done guys.

Online
#48 Posted by TheTrueBarryAllen (5860 posts) - - Show Bio

TTBA - 0

TRV - 2

  • Kidman560
  • I_Like_Swords
#49 Edited by The_Red_Viper (4167 posts) - - Show Bio
#50 Posted by Veitha (3362 posts) - - Show Bio

I'll vote soon, but you're already done? I haven't even started my match ;)