An alternative Universe? We're talking about comic books here. You have no problem at alternative physics, dimensions and planets but draw the line at the future? Please.
I'm not sure if you've read the Battle Forum Rules, but they clearly state that only canon feats are allowed. The Dark Knight Returns features the Batman and Superman of Pre-Flashpoint Earth-31. The Batman in this battle is Batman and Superman of Post-Flashpoint Earth 1. Their feats are not interchangeable, as per the rules of this forum. This has nothing to do with what I have a problem with, it has to do with the rules. That's not negotiable.
Thor flying through Galactus' head suggests he's a lot quicker than you think :
Because starving Galactus has such fantastic reaction feats, and flying in a straight line shows operational speed. /sarcasm
Thor himself stating that he's slower than Wolverine suggests he's not quite as speedy as you think. As do the scans I've already posted showing Thor's reaction speed, or lack thereof. And there are more where those came from.
As do his battles with Silver Surfer despite your poor attempts to downplay Silver Surfer's speed.
Silver Surfer has 2 nanosecond reaction feats over the course of the 1373 issues he's appeared in, and neither of those are in combat. He never demonstrated near-light combat speed or really anything close. And even if he had shown that he was capable of such a thing, he hasn't used it in any of his fights with Thor. Poor though my attempts may be, I actually know the feats of the characters involved. You can claim that Surfer has excellent combat speed, but you are literally unable to show it.
Next you'll tell us Wonder Woman is faster than Silver Suffer and Galactus.
In travel speed? No. Wonder Woman doesn't have the hyperspace abilities of Surfer. In combat speed? She displays higher operational speed than Surfer does on a regular basis. And Galactus isn't a character known for his reaction time. If you can post some feats of impressive combat speed for Surfer or Galactus, then by all means. But seeing as they don't really exist, at least as far as Surfer is concerned, we'll be waiting a while.
Thor has threw his hammer at Hulk he's going to throw it at someone who has a similar strength level when he realises he can't tag Superman and that's IF Superman decides to hit and run.
Hulk isn't at all an analogue to Superman. Superman is willing to use his speed in-character, and Hulk has no comparable speed. I've posted instances of Thor being unable to react to street-levelers, and he didn't throw his hammer. Why should it be different when Superman blitzes him? (Aside from the fact that a flurry of Superman-level punches will actually KO Thor.)
Flash can keep running all he wants. Mjolnir is a magical hammer, it hits it's target.
Great argument there, chap. "It's magic! It wins!" Right. Flash is faster than Superman who's faster than Mjolnir. It doesn't matter if it's magical, it can't catch Barry. And as I've already explained, Flash can simply phase through it. It could then be used to KO Thor from behind in amusing fashion, since it has the power to do so, (as proven by Hulk in Avengers Assemble), and Thor is capable of being surprised by the mallet when it's flying.
I said nothing about Captain Universe using telepathy. Manipulating matter on an atomic level gives him/her any number of ways to stop MM or Dr Fate.
Martian Manhunter will lead with Telepathy while in-character. Captain Universe doesn't use Molecule Manipulation until provoked. J'onn has a degree of resistance, anyway, since he's in total control of every molecule of his body. So he should have plenty of time to mind-wipe Captain Universe. Even in his New-52 incarnation he was able to mindwipe a universal-level reality warper, so Cap shouldn't be a problem.
As stated in the opening post BFR isn't allowed. Running from a fight isn't winning a fight, it's running. They may slow him down for a few minutes but as he gets angrier they're boned. Hulk has lifted 150 billion tons, he's held Earth's tectonic plates together so yes he'd easily take them all at the same time.
Wonder Woman solos with the Lasso of Truth, since she can use it to make him do her bidding. But even without that, he's been KO'd lots of times in the past. Thor, Namor, Silver Surfer, Thanos, Iron Man, Apocalypse, Havok, Wrecker, just to name a few. And I can post scans if I have to. Hulk is not invincible, despite the supposedly limitless strength thing. Even without Superman and Martian Manhunter, the JL have easily the stopping power to put him down. Especially since he's starting at current levels, not WWH or anything like that.
@jackofspades: Pretty straightforward. Thanos takes over Hulk's mind, Hulk KOs Thor with Mjolnir... a normal day in the life of the God of Thunder.
Gallery
EDIT: Here's the whole fight, for reference.
i think that is more wis because how could hulk lift thor hammer in the first place, writer just forgot about peoples power sets have this happen before if not this is just wis
@jackofspades: Hulk doesn't lift Mjolnir, he grabs Thor's hand and forces it into Thor's face. Thor is holding on to his hammer the whole time. It's not even the first time Hulk's done that to Thor.
Mentallo mind-controlled Hulk in the past, I know. Abyss did it in Avengers just a couple of weeks ago. Hulk has good telepathy resistance, but he's hardly immune to mind control. Martian Manhunter should be able to control him, although it's not really necessary in this particular battle.
@jackofspades: Hulk doesn't lift Mjolnir, he grabs Thor's hand and forces it into Thor's face. Thor is holding on to his hammer the whole time. It's not even the first time Hulk's done that to Thor.
Mentallo mind-controlled Hulk in the past, I know. Abyss did it in Avengers just a couple of weeks ago. Hulk has good telepathy resistance, but he's hardly immune to mind control. Martian Manhunter should be able to control him, although it's not really necessary in this particular battle.
no i was talking about the first scan you put up.in that one hulk had the hammer not thor
@jackofspades: I know what you were talking about. Hulk never has the hammer. Thor's hand is always on it. I posted the latest scan to show that it's happened before. I'll post the relevant panels so we can examine them.
Hulk clearly grabs Thor's right hand, which is still holding Mjolnir.
Again, Thor is clearly holding on to Mjolnir. Hulk has wrapped his hand around Thor's right hand, keeping Thor's hand pinned against the hammer.Then Hulk hits Thor in the face with Mjolnir. There's no sign of Thor's right arm, which means it must still be holding on to Mjolnir.
Just as in the scan I posted in my last post, Thor is still holding on to Mjolnir, which is why Hulk can hit him with it. And there are multiple instances of Hulk being mind-controlled as well, so Thanos doing it isn't particularly surprising. Here's Abyss doing it in Avengers. Unsurprisingly, Thor gets pwn'd again.
@jackofspades: I know what you were talking about. Hulk never has the hammer. Thor's hand is always on it. I posted the latest scan to show that it's happened before. I'll post the relevant panels so we can examine them.
Hulk clearly grabs Thor's right hand, which is still holding Mjolnir.
Again, Thor is clearly holding on to Mjolnir. Hulk has wrapped his hand around Thor's right hand, keeping Thor's hand pinned against the hammer.Then Hulk hits Thor in the face with Mjolnir. There's no sign of Thor's right arm, which means it must still be holding on to Mjolnir.
Just as in the scan I posted in my last post, Thor is still holding on to Mjolnir, which is why Hulk can hit him with it. And there are multiple instances of Hulk being mind-controlled as well, so Thanos doing it isn't particularly surprising. Here's Abyss doing it in Avengers. Unsurprisingly, Thor gets pwn'd again.
EDIT: Some of the images didn't come through.
iam sorry i just don't see Thor hand on his hammer but you was right about the mind control but i just think it is wis too because some writers let hulk be mind control and some don't or just high end telepathic beings can do it
iam sorry i just don't see Thor hand on his hammer
You can't see it in the panel, but there's nowhere else for it to be, and he can't have gotten his hand out of Hulk's grip, anyway. Since the same exact thing has happened before, I wouldn't consider it WIS.
but you was right about the mind control but i just think it is wis too because some writers let hulk be mind control and some don't or just high end telepathic beings can do it
Hulk has pretty good TP resistance, but powerful telepaths like Thanos and Martian Manhunter should be able to get through his defenses, at least in his current version. World War Hulk held off Professor Xavier and Emma Frost at the same time, iirc, but current Hulk isn't nearly as impressive.
iam sorry i just don't see Thor hand on his hammer
You can't see it in the panel, but there's nowhere else for it to be, and he can't have gotten his hand out of Hulk's grip, anyway. Since the same exact thing has happened before, I wouldn't consider it WIS.
but you was right about the mind control but i just think it is wis too because some writers let hulk be mind control and some don't or just high end telepathic beings can do it
Hulk has pretty good TP resistance, but powerful telepaths like Thanos and Martian Manhunter should be able to get through his defenses, at least in his current version. World War Hulk held off Professor Xavier and Emma Frost at the same time, iirc, but current Hulk isn't nearly as impressive.
i don't know i wouldn't put MM in thanos league with TP
If anything Id say other way around, considering MMH's telepathy feats I can't see thanos matching him....
Between the new 52 taking down a universal thread mentally and pre new 52, reading everyones mind on earth in seconds that just blows me away with telepathy feats..
If anything Id say other way around, considering MMH's telepathy feats I can't see thanos matching him....
Between the new 52 taking down a universal thread mentally and pre new 52, reading everyones mind on earth in seconds that just blows me away with telepathy feats..
i think reading is easier,controlling is harder to pull off
Well, yeah for every telepath that's probably true overall but i also believe depending on justhow powerful the telepath is can determine how difficult it is to control someone mentally.
Someone in say j'onn's case or prof x's, i'd say it's easy for them to do either.
Are you serious?The Avengers have Captain Universe who can just wipe out the League.
ok who on the dc side i can put to make this more fair you think or should i take out capt universe
Take out Cap Universe and everything will be fine.
even if dr fate is in now
Kent V isn't that great. He has jack all feats. The Original Kent might make an argument for Cap Universe but not Kent V. The original Kent was a far more adept mystic ( basically classic Strange level), had super strength near superman level without any talismans, was impervious ( also without any talismans), had TK enough to move a planet into a sun, powerful TPer as well. PLus could reality warp and remake the universe when destroyed. Kent V at best beat a Mephisto level character and only by luck.
As for the whole Flash Solo's thing it's only come about since the whole Speed force thing and the multitude of other powers that gives him. The ability to steal someone's speed and make them a statue, the ability to hit with an IMP making his blows even stronger than the most super strong character, the speed force "shield", and speed force constructs crap. Sheer speed alone isn't giving him any solo.
thats what i was thinking if this was wally then that would put JL over the top but with barry its 50/50
Beatboks1 covered everything I had in mind.It's a pretty decent team for the JLA but there is no possible way for Dr. Fate to help them that much against Cap Universe.
Fast charcaters get hit by slowers characters all the time.
Hulk is resistant to mental attacks. When has Mjolnir not hit it's target when thrown? Captain Universe can change matter at an atomic level. Uni-Vision allows him to sense danger so he could instantly vegetate all of the Justice League by changing their blood plasma into a solid or a gas before MM can mind-wipe. Justice League cannot win this fight with Captain Universe and Thor in the Avengers line-up but I will say this when it comes to RUNNING away from a fight DC definitely tanks Marvel, no question as you have continually showed ways in which the DC characters avoid standing toe to toe and fighting.
Hyperion IS silver age superman, Captian Universe, Thor and Hulk is a bit much. Manifold is a first order teleporter, Smasher. Avengers Win and this isn't even the full roster, for example Nightmask who is showing up in issues 6 and 7.
@Esquire: In Avengers we really don't what happened between thor and hulk. IIRC we see hulk jump at thor and they fight off panel and the next time we see thor he is being restrained by Ex Nihilo and Hulk is on the ground unconscious. Its possible hulk defeated thor, but it is also possible thor defeated hulk.
@GypRosetti: About your scans with superman, according to that girl she is just as powerful as superman but a better fighter...Who is she and why is that a low showing for superman? And Lobo is pretty inconsistent. I recall another fight where lobo couldn't touch superman (superman couldn't drop lobo admittedly). And that is Byrenes era superman who isn't as powerful as more modern superman and the OP has stated these are new 52 versions so yours scans aren't that relevant.
@jashro44: He benched the weight of the Earth not the Earth itself. If this is DCnu then all previous feats before the reboot are not relevant to the discussion.
Are you serious?The Avengers have Captain Universe who can just wipe out the League.
ok who on the dc side i can put to make this more fair you think or should i take out capt universe
Take out Cap Universe and everything will be fine.
even if dr fate is in now
Kent V isn't that great. He has jack all feats. The Original Kent might make an argument for Cap Universe but not Kent V. The original Kent was a far more adept mystic ( basically classic Strange level), had super strength near superman level without any talismans, was impervious ( also without any talismans), had TK enough to move a planet into a sun, powerful TPer as well. PLus could reality warp and remake the universe when destroyed. Kent V at best beat a Mephisto level character and only by luck.
As for the whole Flash Solo's thing it's only come about since the whole Speed force thing and the multitude of other powers that gives him. The ability to steal someone's speed and make them a statue, the ability to hit with an IMP making his blows even stronger than the most super strong character, the speed force "shield", and speed force constructs crap. Sheer speed alone isn't giving him any solo.
thats what i was thinking if this was wally then that would put JL over the top but with barry its 50/50
Beatboks1 covered everything I had in mind.It's a pretty decent team for the JLA but there is no possible way for Dr. Fate to help them that much against Cap Universe.
i had put dr fate on the team to help out with cap universe,you don't think he will help
Are you serious?The Avengers have Captain Universe who can just wipe out the League.
ok who on the dc side i can put to make this more fair you think or should i take out capt universe
Take out Cap Universe and everything will be fine.
even if dr fate is in now
Kent V isn't that great. He has jack all feats. The Original Kent might make an argument for Cap Universe but not Kent V. The original Kent was a far more adept mystic ( basically classic Strange level), had super strength near superman level without any talismans, was impervious ( also without any talismans), had TK enough to move a planet into a sun, powerful TPer as well. PLus could reality warp and remake the universe when destroyed. Kent V at best beat a Mephisto level character and only by luck.
As for the whole Flash Solo's thing it's only come about since the whole Speed force thing and the multitude of other powers that gives him. The ability to steal someone's speed and make them a statue, the ability to hit with an IMP making his blows even stronger than the most super strong character, the speed force "shield", and speed force constructs crap. Sheer speed alone isn't giving him any solo.
thats what i was thinking if this was wally then that would put JL over the top but with barry its 50/50
Beatboks1 covered everything I had in mind.It's a pretty decent team for the JLA but there is no possible way for Dr. Fate to help them that much against Cap Universe.
i had put dr fate on the team to help out with cap universe,you don't think he will help
Well he will be in a good help of the team but as beatboks1 said,he is on Mephisto level while Cap Universe should be above that level and should not be even amused.
@Esquire: In Avengers we really don't what happened between thor and hulk. IIRC we see hulk jump at thor and they fight off panel and the next time we see thor he is being restrained by Ex Nihilo and Hulk is on the ground unconscious. Its possible hulk defeated thor, but it is also possible thor defeated hulk.
The point was to show Hulk being mind-controlled, not to say he would beat Thor. Although Thor not being able to avoid Hulk's attack does show his lack of Superman-esque combat speed. But you're right, it's very ambiguous as to what happened off-panel between them.
@GypRosetti said:
[Surfer hits Nova with his board]
That's not operational speed, that's applied straight-line speed. Even Thor can do that. Surfer never demonstrates the ability to perform multiple actions in the span of a nanosecond, which is the sort of thing Superman can do. That's what we mean by combat speed when it's mentioned on the forums.
Fast charcaters get hit by slowers characters all the time.
So to prove it, you post a scan of a woman who's as powerful as Superman, and Lobo who's arguably even more powerful than Superman? You aren't even lowballing effectively. In addition, neither of those scans are post-Flashpoint, so they're irrelevant in this particular battle. The fact remains that DCnU Superman has exhibited far better operational speed than Thor ever has. Thor has struggled to tag characters exponentially slower than Superman, so he should struggle mightily to tag Superman.
Hulk is resistant to mental attacks.
Resistant, not immune. I went over this last page with Jackofspades. And Hulk is too slow to be a threat to most of the JL, and several of them have the ability to KO him. Even if he could somehow resist Martian Manhunter's telepathy, J'onn is easily strong enough to KO him.
When has Mjolnir not hit it's target when thrown?
When has Mjolnir tagged someone who can fly at a confirmed >100x the speed of light? Especially someone who also has perceptions to keep up with his speed? And Mjolnir has never tagged someone who can phase like Barry can, either. Flash does it all the time in-character, too. Mjolnir is just as likely to hit Thor as it is to his Flash.
Captain Universe can change matter at an atomic level. Uni-Vision allows him to sense danger so he could instantly vegetate all of the Justice League by changing their blood plasma into a solid or a gas before MM can mind-wipe.
Do you have any reaction feats to indicate current Captain Universe can out-draw Martian Manhunter? And can you give me an instance where s/he preemptively ended a fight in such a fashion without being provoked?
Justice League cannot win this fight with Captain Universe and Thor in the Avengers line-up
Thor can be taken down by Superman, Wonder Woman, Martian Manhunter, and Dr. Fate. Aquaman and Green Lantern can give him good fights. Cyborg has some attacks that could incapacitate him. He can probably take down Batman, though.
but I will say this when it comes to RUNNING away from a fight DC definitely tanks Marvel, no question as you have continually showed ways in which the DC characters avoid standing toe to toe and fighting.
If DC can avoid going toe-to-toe, then why are you so adamant that Hulk will be able to do anything? He's useless if he can't go toe to toe and fight.
@GypRosetti said:
The DCnu in which Superman can't fly?
The picture in the OP is of Justice League Superman, who is the current incarnation. When he couldn't fly in Action Comics, that was a retelling of his past.
@GypRosetti said:
If this is DCnu then all previous feats before the reboot are not relevant to the discussion.
What's stopping Manifold from dropping the JLA into the sun? He transported the Avengers from Earth to Shi'ar space with no problem. That would eliminate everyone but Supes and Fate.
What's stopping Manifold from dropping the JLA into the sun? He transported the Avengers from Earth to Shi'ar space with no problem. That would eliminate everyone but Supes and Fate.
You can say the same about Cyborg.
If i would make a list of the power houses here, for me sould be like this.
What's stopping Manifold from dropping the JLA into the sun? He transported the Avengers from Earth to Shi'ar space with no problem. That would eliminate everyone but Supes and Fate.
You can say the same about Cyborg.
If i would make a list of the power houses here, for me sould be like this.
1.- Dr. Fate
2.- Cap. Universe
3.- Martian Manhunter
4.- Superman - Thor - Wonder Woman - Hyperion
5.- Flash
Jl take this for me.
Not really. Unless the Avengers voluntarily walked into a BoomTube, Cyborg doesn't have the greatest control of the tech and had H'el circumvent his control and send them somewhere else.
@Esquire: Mjolnir hits it's target. Who said it has a speed limit? It's driven by magic not physics. Several of the JL have the ability to KO Hulk? Show strength feats the JL members in the DCnU have comparable to Hulk lifting a 150 billion ton mountain, destroying an asteroid twice the size of Earth, punching a hole in reality (Onslaught), holding tectonic plates together etc, etc. Hulk can take incredible levels of punishment. Superman would be a major problem for him no doubt but not the others. They'd struggle against Iron Man let alone Hulk and the current Hulk is the Green Scar (WWH). Hulk hasn't had a power upgrade or his history erased. His levels are determined by the Banner-Hulk dynamic. Hulk ties Wonder Woman's hands together, takes her home and fathers more children. Unlike Clark, he's very fertile and doesn't shoot blanks. Captain Universe has Uni-Vision, can sense things on an atomic level so yes she can react before Ben 10. She turns everyone's blood to gas and they're toast of course that's only necessary because the JL want to avoid standing toe to toe and fighting like men.
Well, yeah for every telepath that's probably true overall but i also believe depending on justhow powerful the telepath is can determine how difficult it is to control someone mentally.
Someone in say j'onn's case or prof x's, i'd say it's easy for them to do either.
what feats have j'onn did that would make me think that he could control hulks mind
Well, yeah for every telepath that's probably true overall but i also believe depending on justhow powerful the telepath is can determine how difficult it is to control someone mentally.
Someone in say j'onn's case or prof x's, i'd say it's easy for them to do either.
what feats have j'onn did that would make me think that he could control hulks mind
Hoo boy. Breaking through Mageddon's TP shields multiple times, breaking into Spectre's mind twice and reading him a third time, reading every mind on Earth a couple of times and every mind in the galaxy once, resisting the telepathic attacks of nine amped White Martians at the same time... He's got some decent feats.
Well, yeah for every telepath that's probably true overall but i also believe depending on justhow powerful the telepath is can determine how difficult it is to control someone mentally.
Someone in say j'onn's case or prof x's, i'd say it's easy for them to do either.
what feats have j'onn did that would make me think that he could control hulks mind
Hoo boy. Breaking through Mageddon's TP shields multiple times, breaking into Spectre's mind twice and reading him a third time, reading every mind on Earth a couple of times and every mind in the galaxy once, resisting the telepathic attacks of nine amped White Martians at the same time... He's got some decent feats.
How about all this too lol
@jackofspades said:
@Vaeternus said:
Well, yeah for every telepath that's probably true overall but i also believe depending on justhow powerful the telepath is can determine how difficult it is to control someone mentally.
Someone in say j'onn's case or prof x's, i'd say it's easy for them to do either.
what feats have j'onn did that would make me think that he could control hulks mind
Considering J'onn's mindwiped, mind cleared and read the minds of far more powerful people of the Hulk I'd say this is why...Hulk won't be an issue.
MMH taking on the JL all at once...and mindwiping over 30 civilians minds at once instantly.
MMH reading the minds of Justice Leaguers from ridiculous distances away, he's on the moon they're in space..
MMH helping and reading the minds, telling a ridiculous amount of Green Lanterns what to do as well as linking everyone together.
And most impressively mind reading and mentally controlling Jenny Quantum(a universal reality warper) and kept her from altering reality...while taking a blast from her like nothing..
MMH mind reading Shadow Cabinets(which he admitted was near to impossible)
So yeah..that would be why, and that's not even some of his greatest feats but a few alone that would be more then enough proof as to "How can he read or control Hulk's Mind?" Well, there you go...
He's also literally scanned and read the Entire Earth's minds in seconds Pre-new 52....
So I doubt Hulk of all people would be the slightest issue, in fact I'd wager MMH could mentally harm everyone on the Avengers honestly here..if he went all out.
@Vaeternus: Professor X couldn't do it so why would MM? Hulk has high resistance to mind attacks, it's part of his abilities. Reading a mind and controlling a mind are two different things. Hulk is hard to control because there are two personalities. Mind wiping a 12 year old girl. How brave.
@Vaeternus: Yes they're both guilty of PIS but DC more so - resetting the Universe, rebooting characters, writing themselves into a corner then having to develop even more overpowered characters to compensate e.g. Icon. Really?
This is unfair. As simple as that. Avengers have no answer for Dr. Fate. There have no answer for telepathy. They have no real answer for Flash. Their only hope would be Hickman saying that Cap Universe can access to full power of Eternity, lol. Even in morals, Flash still is a hard opponent. And since Hyperion didn't show any resistance to telepathy yet and he has best strength feat of all people present here (possibly also best durability feat), he will deal with Avengers on his own when MM will control him.
Stomp and please - flag it, since I flagged too many battles in these days...
Classic Dr. Fate(Kent Nelson) is far more powerful then Captain Universe and Spider-Woman is a non-factor there.
@GypRosetti said:
@Vaeternus: Yes they're both guilty of PIS but DC more so - resetting the Universe, rebooting characters, writing themselves into a corner then having to develop even more overpowered characters to compensate e.g. Icon. Really?
I disagree, if anything Marvel historically has way more PIS then DC. DC revamped their characters and universe so they're starting fresh with some things not retconned...Marvel having Pre-ret Beyonder be nearly as powerful as TOAA so dumb, and Doom beating Galactus? Again dumb, that's like Batman beating Imperiex on his own...
I see nothing wrong with rebooting, that's not the same as PIS if anything that's a fresh take on things and DC also has alternate universes unlike one constant in Marvel with a few alternate universes so usually they keep things separate.
Besides, Marvel tried emulation DC a lot anyway trying to be like them with characters like Gladiator? Sentry? Clearly Superman biteoffs, Black Panther? Batman ripoff. Quick Silver? Flash ripoff I can go on...
Well, yeah for every telepath that's probably true overall but i also believe depending on justhow powerful the telepath is can determine how difficult it is to control someone mentally.
Someone in say j'onn's case or prof x's, i'd say it's easy for them to do either.
what feats have j'onn did that would make me think that he could control hulks mind
Hoo boy. Breaking through Mageddon's TP shields multiple times, breaking into Spectre's mind twice and reading him a third time, reading every mind on Earth a couple of times and every mind in the galaxy once, resisting the telepathic attacks of nine amped White Martians at the same time... He's got some decent feats.
wow i would say so thanks for letting me know now i think he could mess with hulk
This is unfair. As simple as that. Avengers have no answer for Dr. Fate. There have no answer for telepathy. They have no real answer for Flash. Their only hope would be Hickman saying that Cap Universe can access to full power of Eternity, lol. Even in morals, Flash still is a hard opponent. And since Hyperion didn't show any resistance to telepathy yet and he has best strength feat of all people present here (possibly also best durability feat), he will deal with Avengers on his own when MM will control him. Stomp and please - flag it, since I flagged too many battles in these days...
@Vaeternus: Professor X couldn't do it so why would MM? Hulk has high resistance to mind attacks, it's part of his abilities. Reading a mind and controlling a mind are two different things. Hulk is hard to control because there are two personalities. Mind wiping a 12 year old girl. How brave.
First of all, Current Hulk has far worse resistance to TP than WWHulk did. Thanos mind-controlled him effortlessly, and he was controlled by Abyss a couple of weeks ago. Second, Martian Manhunter has effortlessly entered the Spectre's mind. It literally says on-panel that he does it effortlessly. You can't seriously believe that Hulk has better TP resistance than the Spectre.
Well, yeah for every telepath that's probably true overall but i also believe depending on justhow powerful the telepath is can determine how difficult it is to control someone mentally.
Someone in say j'onn's case or prof x's, i'd say it's easy for them to do either.
what feats have j'onn did that would make me think that he could control hulks mind
Hoo boy. Breaking through Mageddon's TP shields multiple times, breaking into Spectre's mind twice and reading him a third time, reading every mind on Earth a couple of times and every mind in the galaxy once, resisting the telepathic attacks of nine amped White Martians at the same time... He's got some decent feats.
wow i would say so thanks for letting me know now i think he could mess with hulk
Sure, the white martian feat and MMH in new 52 stopping a reality warper mentally is a ridiculous feat. Honestly, MMH has always been very underrated at times.
The earth feat I didn't know he did a few times but knew he did it once, is pretty nuts lol.
@Esquire said:
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