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#1 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (33634 posts) - - Show Bio

No Prep  
No BFR
Morals On 
In Character 
Pre-Flashpoint and New 52 Feats Aloud  
 
Justice League:

Roster: 
Superman 
Batman 
Wonder Woman 
Aquaman 
Cyborg 
Green Lantern (Hal) 
Flash (Barry) 
Martian Manhunter 
Hawkman 
Green Arrow 
Catwoman 
Katanna 
Star Girl 
Vibe 
John Constantine 
Zatanna 
Deadman 
Black Orchid 
Andrew Bennett 
Frankenstein 
 
Avengers:  
 
 Roster: 
Captain America 
Thor 
Rogue 
Wolverine 
Scarlet Witch 
Havok 
Sunfire 
Wasp 
Wonder Man 
Hulk  
Iron Man 
Hawkeye 
Black Widow 
Hyperion 
Cannnonball 
Photon 
Spider Man (superior) 
Nova (Rider) 
Captain Marvel 
Black Bolt 
Namor 
Black Panther 
Mr Fantastic 
Beast 
Dr Strange 
 
 
FIGHT!
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#2 Posted by CalebHara (2329 posts) - - Show Bio

JLA

#3 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (33634 posts) - - Show Bio
@CalebHara: give reasons please 
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#4 Posted by The Stegman (24661 posts) - - Show Bio
JLA  They have not only powerhouses, but  A strong telepath, Andrew Bennett, who's A decent reality warper, AND Deadman.
#5 Posted by 80sBaby (1345 posts) - - Show Bio

What version of Scarlet Witch is this?

#6 Posted by ImTheDamnBatman (3548 posts) - - Show Bio

JL wins again. The DC universe has many more powerhouses on their roster than Marvel. Marvel usually has the better street-levelers.

#7 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (33634 posts) - - Show Bio
@80sBaby: current version 
 
@The Stegman@ImTheDamnBatman: do you not think Marvels extra numbers will even it out
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#8 Posted by ImTheDamnBatman (3548 posts) - - Show Bio

20 rabbits against a Tiger isn't much of a difference than 10 rabbits against a Tiger. Deadman possesses Thor, and then it's all over.

#9 Posted by evilvegeta74 (4530 posts) - - Show Bio

@Jonny_Anonymous: @The Stegman: The Avengers, they have too many powerful characters. Are the pre-reconned feats of the Avengers aloud as well, or is this a one sided thing in favor of Dc which is what it sounds like. Either way Avengers FTW! Stegman in case of reality warpers and telepaths, there is Scarlet Witch who could nulify both or Rogue who could steal those powers.Scarlet Witch could also make Superman a guy dressed for Halloween. The real question is what happens when Rogue touches the Hulk, Thor, and the New Hyperion? Game over no more Justice League. Another thing if the powers of the pre-retconned Avengers are allowed, I can probably pick 8 or 9 Avengers to take out the entire JLA.

#10 Posted by The Stegman (24661 posts) - - Show Bio
@evilvegeta74:  
 

@Jonny_Anonymous : @The Stegman: The Avengers, they have too many powerful characters. Are the pre-reconned feats of the Avengers aloud as well, or is this a one sided thing in favor of Dc which is what it sounds like. Either way Avengers FTW! Stegman in case of reality warpers and telepaths, there is Scarlet Witch who could nulify both or Rogue who could steal those powers.Scarlet Witch could also make Superman a guy dressed for Halloween. The real question is what happens when Rogue touches the Hulk, Thor, and the New Hyperion? Game over no more Justice League. Another thing if the powers of the pre-retconned Avengers are allowed, I can probably pick 8 or 9 Avengers to take out the entire JLA. 


Scarlet Witch, to me, is the ace in the whole for the Avengers, but even still, I don't see her being able to take down such overwhelming odds, Deadman can possess her and use her abilities against her own team, Superman or Flash can take her out before she raises a hand, Zatanna or Constantine can freeze her in her tracks, I don't know how much tp resistance she has currently, but I recall in Uncanny Avengers (at least I think it was that one) Red Skull controlled her mind with Xavier's powers, I don't see why the Martian can't do the same. As for Rogue, depending on what powers she starts off with, she could be a threat, or get K.o'ed from the start by anyone stronger than her. OP says current versions of all, so I'm assuming Pre Retconned feats are not allowed. I don't think this will be an easy match, and anyone saying it's a stomp would be lying, but I see the JL taking the battle.
#11 Posted by clemj (817 posts) - - Show Bio

well it seems evryone forgets scarlet whitch, but I recon zatanna and deadman are trouble for her

#12 Posted by ImTheDamnBatman (3548 posts) - - Show Bio

Oh gosh didn't see Flash, he seals the deal.

#13 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (33634 posts) - - Show Bio
@ImTheDamnBatman said:
20 rabbits against a Tiger isn't much of a difference than 10 rabbits against a Tiger. Deadman possesses Thor, and then it's all over.
Nova could take out Thor if it came to that or Hyperion and Wonder Man tag team and anyway I'm pretty sure Thor has resistance to that kind of thing 
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#14 Posted by ImTheDamnBatman (3548 posts) - - Show Bio

Thor can resist possesion? Not that I don't believe you but do you have scans? I just geniunely want to know.

#15 Posted by Saren (25698 posts) - - Show Bio

Thor's body was recently possessed by Brother Voodoo's spirit and he offered no resistance whatsoever to that, so I don't see why Deadman would have a problem.

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#16 Posted by evilvegeta74 (4530 posts) - - Show Bio

@CitizenBane: @The Stegman:

Xavier's mind could control anybody's mind P-5v aside. Manhunter is nowhere in the league of Xavier.Wanda could make Deadman's body solid, or banish his spirit somewhere.Pre-Retconned feats aren't allowed for the Avengers, Pre-Flashpoint and current 52 feats are allowed for Dc, sounds like favortism to me. Avengers for the win they have too many options. And CitIzen, Brother Vodoo was the Sorcerer Supreme which is far from being a simple ghost taking possesion of a body.

#17 Posted by comicace3 (5573 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm pretty sure this has happened before but jla wins: bats takes cap. supes takes thor... the rest is history.

#18 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (33634 posts) - - Show Bio
@CitizenBane: maybe I'm wrong then
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#19 Posted by AssertingValor (5393 posts) - - Show Bio

Why does Marvel get 5 more guys than DC??

#20 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (33634 posts) - - Show Bio
@evilvegeta74: Honestly, tell me how it's favouritism when none of these characters have any feats in the New 52 and it would be an utter stomp if they weren't aloud pre-flashpoint feats? Also Marvel have 6 more fighters than DC has 
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#21 Posted by Om4zd (922 posts) - - Show Bio

JL.

The original JL members could do it without the rest. The only person with an intellect above Batman's there that I see is Richards but he wouldn't really be a problem towards them because of his sucky powers. I don't see any of Marvel's powerhouses on the same level as Supes there, or any with Flash's speed.

#22 Posted by Saren (25698 posts) - - Show Bio

@evilvegeta74 said:

@CitizenBane: @The Stegman:

Xavier's mind could control anybody's mind P-5v aside. Manhunter is nowhere in the league of Xavier.Wanda could make Deadman's body solid, or banish his spirit somewhere.Pre-Retconned feats aren't allowed for the Avengers, Pre-Flashpoint and current 52 feats are allowed for Dc, sounds like favortism to me. Avengers for the win they have too many options. And CitIzen, Brother Vodoo was the Sorcerer Supreme which is far from being a simple ghost taking possesion of a body.

Xavier isn't even in this Marvel line-up, and on what basis is Manhunter "nowhere in the league of Xavier?". Malarkey. Current Wanda post-Children's Crusade only has like two feats, losing to M.O.D.O.K and losing to the Goat-Faced Girl and her posse. None of her AvX feats really count because it was stated several times that her powers react differently against the Phoenix than they normally do. And considering Emma Frost shut down Wanda's mind casually in The Children's Crusade, why would the Martian have any problem doing the same thing? What are the "too many options" the Avengers have? Brother Voodoo was only the Sorcerer Supreme until he died. The Eye of Agamotto doesn't stay owner-less forever. Him being the Sorcerer Supreme while he was alive has no relevance on him possessing Thor while he was dead.

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#23 Edited by MetalSonic (75 posts) - - Show Bio

This has been done before in JLA vs Avengers, which was done as a collaboration between the writers at Marvel and DC. Scarlet Witch, as has been said, is the real ace in the hole. Her magical powers outdid the JLA's magic users by far.

This is also going to depend on if they end up fighting their universal rivals (aka cap vs batman or superman vs thor). I mean lets be honest, if Batman fought thor in a battle with no prep, he'd be killed instantly. SuperMan would cleave Iron Man in two, and the Scarlet Witch would have a nervous break down and cause everyone to lose their powers.

The real problem is that this fight is that their is not enough restraints. Honestly probably 70% of the roster could destroy the Earth fairly easily, and even some of that percentage could destroy the whole galaxy. Neither the JLA nor Avengers stomp this or come out unscathed. Each team has several fighters who could match and take out someone on the other team.

I am going to call this one a Stale Mate. Mostly because its been done before in the official comics (several times, with the JLA vs Avengers being canon) and too fanboyish to actually make an actual clear winner.

*edit*

And just to clarify. This is a no prep fight. That being said, Captain America beats Batman (Batman has admitted to it), and honestly Spider-Man would take batman out much quicker then Cap.

#24 Posted by evilvegeta74 (4530 posts) - - Show Bio

@CitizenBane: @LordMaverick: @Jonny_Anonymous: Marvel gets more people in this post because it's set up in favor of Dc characters. In terms of feats Dc is allowed to use pre-Flashpoint and New 52 feats vs a team of Avengers that have only been together for a month at best, and you haven't even seen all of the of the Avengers in the nw books yet such as the New Hyperion. This post shouldn't be a battle , it should be titled why I like JLA or JLA defeats the featless Marvel Now Avengers because: The post is a support thread for JLA simple and plain!

#25 Posted by MetalSonic (75 posts) - - Show Bio

@evilvegeta74 said:

@CitizenBane: @LordMaverick: @Jonny_Anonymous: Marvel gets more people in this post because it's set up in favor of Dc characters. In terms of feats Dc is allowed to use pre-Flashpoint and New 52 feats vs a team of Avengers that have only been together for a month at best, and you haven't even seen all of the of the Avengers in the nw books yet such as the New Hyperion. This post shouldn't be a battle , it should be titled why I like JLA or JLA defeats the featless Marvel Now Avengers because: The post is a support thread for JLA simple and plain!

Yeah sadly I agree with this.

#26 Posted by Saren (25698 posts) - - Show Bio

@evilvegeta74 said:

@CitizenBane: @LordMaverick: @Jonny_Anonymous: Marvel gets more people in this post because it's set up in favor of Dc characters. In terms of feats Dc is allowed to use pre-Flashpoint and New 52 feats vs a team of Avengers that have only been together for a month at best, and you haven't even seen all of the of the Avengers in the nw books yet such as the New Hyperion. This post shouldn't be a battle , it should be titled why I like JLA or JLA defeats the featless Marvel Now Avengers because: The post is a support thread for JLA simple and plain!

Even assuming this Hyperion is as powerful as, say, the one from Earth-712, what difference does that make? Who cares how long this team has been together when everyone with the exception of the new Hyperion has decades worth of feats?

Are you going to come up with an argument or just crib about the thread?

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#27 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (33634 posts) - - Show Bio
@CitizenBane said:

@evilvegeta74 said:

@CitizenBane: @LordMaverick: @Jonny_Anonymous: Marvel gets more people in this post because it's set up in favor of Dc characters. In terms of feats Dc is allowed to use pre-Flashpoint and New 52 feats vs a team of Avengers that have only been together for a month at best, and you haven't even seen all of the of the Avengers in the nw books yet such as the New Hyperion. This post shouldn't be a battle , it should be titled why I like JLA or JLA defeats the featless Marvel Now Avengers because: The post is a support thread for JLA simple and plain!

Even assuming this Hyperion is as powerful as, say, the one from Earth-712, what difference does that make? Who cares how long this team has been together when everyone with the exception of the new Hyperion has decades worth of feats?

Are you going to come up with an argument or just crib about the thread?

it is the 712 version, I didn't even know there was a new one
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#28 Posted by HereComesTheBoom_Headshot (321 posts) - - Show Bio

This is not a stomp for the JLA, this is actually a very close battle with several powerful opponents. In the end, I must say that Avengers could come out victorious.

#29 Posted by ImTheDamnBatman (3548 posts) - - Show Bio

@MetalSonic Batman admitted Cap would beat him? Scans?

#30 Posted by Saren (25698 posts) - - Show Bio

Batman did not admit Cap would beat him. He said it was plausible Cap could beat him. That's just stating that the possibility of a loss exists, not a certainty.

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#31 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (33634 posts) - - Show Bio
@CitizenBane said:

Batman did not admit Cap would beat him. He said it was plausible Cap could beat him. That's just stating that the possibility of a loss exists, not a certainty.

also not canon 
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#32 Posted by Squalleon (4626 posts) - - Show Bio

JLA

Due to better teamwork!

Every one of this character (except Constantine and some of the Dark members) Have been a team long enough to counter every possible strategy!Flash speedblitz and takes down the brains and the weak players as MM,Supes,WW fights the powerhouses of the Avengers together.

This is a close battle but the Avengers roster is new and the team lacks strategy and with flash taking down the tacticians they are leaderless

#33 Posted by Mr_Ingenuity (7611 posts) - - Show Bio

Don't see how this is even close...

#34 Posted by MetalSonic (75 posts) - - Show Bio

@CitizenBane said:

Batman did not admit Cap would beat him. He said it was plausible Cap could beat him. That's just stating that the possibility of a loss exists, not a certainty.

When does Batman Ever admit that he could lose, unless it was possible? He wouldn't even say that to Super Man because he HAS a plan to beat Super-Man.

For Batman to actually admit that means that he has thought through every possible outcome. He realized that while it would take awhile due to their skill, he would probably lose the fight and decided to try to reason with Cap to figure out what was going on.

Here is the scan: http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/7/74840/1875018-tumblr_laz77nndvn1qbmcovo1_500.png_super.jpg

@Jonny_Anonymous said:

@CitizenBane said:

Batman did not admit Cap would beat him. He said it was plausible Cap could beat him. That's just stating that the possibility of a loss exists, not a certainty.

also not canon

It is according to the DC and Marvel guys who actually came up with it. It's deemed by both companies to be the greatest of the cross over's they have done and was planned out by the writers of (at the time) Avengers and JLA respectively.

Here is an insert out of the DC Comics Year By Year A Visual Chronicle.p. 311

It was an event that had taken over a decade to come to fruition and proved to be one of the biggest and best of the DC and Marvel crossovers, incorporating many of the two companies' greatest heroes and villians. The crossover had originally been planned for 1983, with arist George Perez having drawn thirty pages before the book was postponed. While Perez still handled the art for the 2003 version, the script was by Kurt Busiek, a writer with an encyclopedic knowledge of both DC and Marvel history. It was clear from the opening that both talents were going to have fun with the concept."

And yes, I have that Year by Year book in front of me. The Marvel Version "a year by year history" page 316.

It was supposed to happen more than twenty years earlier. Marvel and DC Comics had decided to pair up their biggest superteams, the Justice League of America and the Avengers, for the mother of all crossovers. The series was to have been written by Gerry Conway and drawn by George Perez, an artist who as no stranger to either group of heroes. However, due to a growing editorial discord between both camps, the comic was shelved indefinitely, although some of the already drawn pages later wound up in the personal collection of arist Rob leifield.
Years passed and so did dozens of other collaborative comics between the two publishing houses, including the popular Marvel Versus DC / Dc Versus Marvel miniseries. But while the Justice Leage and Avengers did get a chance to square off a few times in these various specials and limited series, the fans always lamented the death of what would have been the ultimate in team ups, pitting the iconic versions of each team versus the other.
But as 2003 rolled around, both Marvel and DC had spent years reestablishing their characters, and a classic feel was once again prevalent in the majority of their titles. The timing seemed perfect to give the fans what they wanted. So George Perez returned, teaming with writer Kurt Busiek to create this four-issue prestige formant limited series, to tell the story of the DC villian Krona breaching the barrier of the Marvel Universe, and Marvel's Grandmaster, pitting the unwitting Jutice League against the Avengers in a contest meant to challenge this new threat.

Unlike the Marvel VS DC comic that came out years ago, which battles were voted on by fans, this series was done as an actual story arch and was planned out by both companies (For a long time). It occurred in both universes (as the JLA traveled to the Marvel Universe and the Avengers to the DC) and was honestly a good read. The fights were pretty fair and made sense (the Flash had to use a belt that he charged up with the Speed Force in order to run in the Marvel Universe, as he discovered the MU did not have a Speed Force for their speedsters and so both Quick Silver and the Flash each had a victory).

I think its foolish to consider it not canon just because it is a cross over which logical battles that were not voted on by fans, but done by actual writers of the comics, with the planning and collaboration of both companies behind its making.

#35 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (33634 posts) - - Show Bio
@MetalSonic: still saying it's not canon 
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#36 Posted by evilvegeta74 (4530 posts) - - Show Bio

@CitizenBane:

!

Not trolling man, just trying to help get the thread correct, the new Hyperion just beat up the mind controlled Hulk.

#37 Posted by MetalSonic (75 posts) - - Show Bio

@Jonny_Anonymous said:

@MetalSonic: still saying it's not canon

Thats fine for you. Considering its backed by both companies, was planned by both companies, and the outcome of the fights were not dictated by fanboyism, I am calling it Canon.

#38 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (33634 posts) - - Show Bio
@MetalSonic: not once have I ever seen anybody say that the crossovers where canon in the battle threads and I'm not about to start now
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#39 Posted by ImTheDamnBatman (3548 posts) - - Show Bio

@MetalSonic Batman has admitted Superman could absolutely destroy him. I'm paraphrasing, of course.

#40 Edited by evilvegeta74 (4530 posts) - - Show Bio

@Jonny_Anonymous: Still at the end of the day no matter how you chalk it up, you have a team Jla, that has Pre- Flashpint and New 52 expierience , pitted against a Marvel Now Avengers squad no feats at all in battle. Do you not see how wrong this battle is on so many levels, even with that, I still say Avengers FTW!

#41 Posted by MetalSonic (75 posts) - - Show Bio

@Jonny_Anonymous said:

@MetalSonic: not once have I ever seen anybody say that the crossovers where canon in the battle threads and I'm not about to start now

Due to most of the cross overs being small one shot, "what ifs" or fan voted fights. JLA vs Avenges is none of those. But I am not here to try to convince you either way. Marvel / DC's version of who they think would win in a fight is just as "valid" as the fans (even more so honestly but what ever) and in that comic Super-Man actually beats Thor.

Which is a big deal, and I will tell you why.

Thor's Hammer is one of the strongest Magical weapons in the Universe. Super Man has no resistance towards magic. Not that he is weak to it, but a magic powered item or person can hurt Superman just like it would hurt a normal human being. Now back to thors hammer. It was forged using the Core of a dieing Star. When a Star dies it collapses into a super condensed neutron star. Evne the smallest portion of this kind of star can weight a million tons. Now add the fact that this thing is magically enchanted, can be swung at speeds of twice the speed of light, and beind used by a guy who can lift more then a million tons...well, to a person who has no super defense to the hammer, it should one shot Super Man (and most of the damn DCU). Not only that but Thor is capable of using the God Blast, which can kill Immortals, but then again I don't believe he has used that power recently.

@ImTheDamnBatman said:

@MetalSonic Batman has admitted Superman could absolutely destroy him. I'm paraphrasing, of course.

That makes me think of the time that he punched superman and broke his hand. xD

#42 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (33634 posts) - - Show Bio
@evilvegeta74: No I don't, Marvel NOW is still Marvel, all the feats theyv had for the last 60 odd years are intact, I haven't taken anything away from them. I really have no idea what you'r talking about.
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#43 Edited by evilvegeta74 (4530 posts) - - Show Bio

@MetalSonic: @Jonny_Anonymous: @said:

@evilvegeta74: No I don't, Marvel NOW is still Marvel, all the feats theyv had for the last 60 odd years are intact, I haven't taken anything away from them. I really have no idea what you'r talking about.

Then you should say there feats are allowed for the past 60 yrs which is what I've been trying to tell you! You need to say that in your rules for the post.

#44 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (33634 posts) - - Show Bio
@evilvegeta74: What are you even talking about? There has been no retcons or reboots at Marvel, why would't there regular feats be aloud?
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#45 Posted by MetalSonic (75 posts) - - Show Bio

@Jonny_Anonymous said:

@evilvegeta74: What are you even talking about? There has been no retcons or reboots at Marvel, why would't there regular feats be aloud?

I think he's confused. I don't get it either.

#46 Posted by Sethlol (1296 posts) - - Show Bio

JLA take this.

#47 Edited by evilvegeta74 (4530 posts) - - Show Bio

@Jonny_Anonymous:@Jonny_Anonymous said:

@evilvegeta74: No I don't, Marvel NOW is still Marvel, all the feats theyv had for the last 60 odd years are intact, I haven't taken anything away from them. I really have no idea what you'r talking about.

Look in the post you were talking about feats, what feats are allowed for the Avengers, You posted the Marvel now team , they have no feats as a team. Now you say that 60 yrs of Avengers feats can be used. You should have stated that from the get go. You stated that JLA could use Pre-Flash point,and New 52 feats, nothing is explained about the Avengers. That's why I've been saying the thread is unfair.Do you know what you posted? See below!

No Prep
No BFR
Morals On
In Character
Pre-Flashpoint and New 52 Feats Aloud

Justice League:
Roster:
Superman
Batman
Wonder Woman
Aquaman
Cyborg
Green Lantern (Hal)
Flash (Barry)
Martian Manhunter
Hawkman
Green Arrow
Catwoman
Katanna
Star Girl
Vibe
John Constantine
Zatanna
Deadman
Black Orchid
Andrew Bennett
Frankenstein

Avengers:

Roster:
Captain America
Thor
Rogue
Wolverine
Scarlet Witch
Havok
Sunfire
Wasp
Wonder Man
Hulk
Iron Man
Hawkeye
Black Widow
Hyperion
Cannnonball
Photon
Spider Man (superior)
Nova (Rider)
Captain Marvel
Black Bolt
Namor
Black Panther
Mr Fantastic
Beast
Dr Strange


FIGHT! In this case Avengers do this to JLA :
#48 Edited by JakeN7 (12645 posts) - - Show Bio

@The Stegman said:

@evilvegeta74:


@Jonny_Anonymous : @The Stegman: The Avengers, they have too many powerful characters. Are the pre-reconned feats of the Avengers aloud as well, or is this a one sided thing in favor of Dc which is what it sounds like. Either way Avengers FTW! Stegman in case of reality warpers and telepaths, there is Scarlet Witch who could nulify both or Rogue who could steal those powers.Scarlet Witch could also make Superman a guy dressed for Halloween. The real question is what happens when Rogue touches the Hulk, Thor, and the New Hyperion? Game over no more Justice League. Another thing if the powers of the pre-retconned Avengers are allowed, I can probably pick 8 or 9 Avengers to take out the entire JLA.

Scarlet Witch, to me, is the ace in the whole for the Avengers, but even still, I don't see her being able to take down such overwhelming odds, Deadman can possess her and use her abilities against her own team, Superman or Flash can take her out before she raises a hand, Zatanna or Constantine can freeze her in her tracks, I don't know how much tp resistance she has currently, but I recall in Uncanny Avengers (at least I think it was that one) Red Skull controlled her mind with Xavier's powers, I don't see why the Martian can't do the same. As for Rogue, depending on what powers she starts off with, she could be a threat, or get K.o'ed from the start by anyone stronger than her. OP says current versions of all, so I'm assuming Pre Retconned feats are not allowed. I don't think this will be an easy match, and anyone saying it's a stomp would be lying, but I see the JL taking the battle.

I thought J'onn was opposed to doing that sort of thing? I know he feels it is morally wrong to read someone's mind without their permission, so I would think he would have an even bigger problem with controlling their mind.

@Jonny_Anonymous:

Batman wins again!

#49 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (33634 posts) - - Show Bio
@evilvegeta74: Marvel NOW means nothing to continuity, it's not a reboot thats why nothing was mentioned about feats for Marvel because everybody already knows that it's all canon
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#50 Posted by vjeko25 (8 posts) - - Show Bio

avengers win because they have people who have will to kill there opponents ( Thor, Wolverine, Hulk, Hawkeye, Black Widow), also Black Bolt`s voice has a power of nuclear bomb