Justice League vs Avengers

original Justice League: - Batman - Superman - Flash - Green Lanturn - Aquaman - Wonder Woman - Martian Manhunter original Avengers: - Iron Man - Captain America - Hulk - Thor - Ant-Man - The Wasp - each side is given files of each members powers, but not their weaknesses 10 minutes before the fight - fight takes place in an open field at noon - standard powers and equipment - which side wins AND why?

Classic levels?

Thor is the only factor on the Avengers, JLA stomp.

yep

Superman, Flash, Wonder Woman, Martian Manhunter................any two of them win easily.

As someone above said, Thor is the only real threat on the Avengers side, i say Superman, or WW or MM can deal with him, while Flash takes out the rest of the Avengers by himself

@The Stegman:

I think Flash could take Thor out as well.

Wonder Woman isn't mentioned in the op...but yeah JLA wins.

JLA wins. They can take out more Avengers individually than Avengers vice versa.

i also think JL would win, but wouldnt it be a little bit closer considering the chemistry the avengers have?

The Avengers didn't have chemistry in the early days.

JL

I never seen the Avengers as "earths mightiest heros" ... to me its more Americas attempt at it, I mean the JLA has tons of people outside of america and MASSIVE heavy hitters, it really is DC earths mightiest heros, I mean technically Strange was an Avenger ... and at the time could take any person in the JLA that you've mention'd, but he doesn't count cause hes not an original i suppose.

But either way that was a ramble :P JLA stomps those avengers

It's a stomp. Hulk and Thor last a bit longer but fall eventually.

You are all under-estimating the avengers. Superman could be distracted by the hulk. Supes can do more, but Hulk is easily stronger and more savage. Wonder Woman is matched by thor, because the Amazons are about the same physically as the asgardians; they also both have a power weapon. Martian Manhunter despite having invisibility, he can be picked up by radar from Iron man and Ant-man. His mind stuff would only go on for a while before hulk (who is to stupid to be effecting by physic attacks) breaks him in half. King of atlantis? He is like the superman of the sea. Sadly for him, THEY'RE IN A FIELD. GL is tough, but wasp could keep him busy until iron man blasts him through the ground. Batman is also a hard-hitter, but he's paralleled by cap in every way. the tie-breaker would be any available avenger. And finally, the fastest man alive's motions could be visually slowed down by the sensors in Iron Man's helmet. Avengers win.

Hell yes

pretty much any one of the JL other than batman can solo avengers.

@wwenmdc: ..............

@iamthewolf88 yes??

@wwenmdc said:

You are all under-estimating the avengers. Superman could be distracted by the hulk. Supes can do more, but Hulk is easily stronger and more savage. Wonder Woman is matched by thor, because the Amazons are about the same physically as the asgardians; they also both have a power weapon. Martian Manhunter despite having invisibility, he can be picked up by radar from Iron man and Ant-man. His mind stuff would only go on for a while before hulk (who is to stupid to be effecting by physic attacks) breaks him in half. King of atlantis? He is like the superman of the sea. Sadly for him, THEY'RE IN A FIELD. GL is tough, but wasp could keep him busy until iron man blasts him through the ground. Batman is also a hard-hitter, but he's paralleled by cap in every way. the tie-breaker would be any available avenger. And finally, the fastest man alive's motions could be visually slowed down by the sensors in Iron Man's helmet. Avengers win.

What an amazingly incorrect bump. I honestly just don't know where to start.

@Dredeuced: Care to elaborate? That was put very rudely. However, I would like to know what you mean.

@wwenmdc: I think what we both meant is that those were improbable scenarios. There are versions and characters on The Avengers that could hold up better against the Justice League than this.... but with this lineup. It just wouldn't work. Maybe throw in Sentry, Ms. Marvel or Vision, it could be a little more even.

I read and re-read the avenger ftw post here... Laughed so hard I fell from my chair *wipes tears* @Dredeuced ... Be gentle with 'im. He probably doesn't know better or is mistaken. A lot!

@wwenmdc said:

You are all under-estimating the avengers. Superman could be distracted by the hulk. Supes can do more, but Hulk is easily stronger and more savage. Wonder Woman is matched by thor, because the Amazons are about the same physically as the asgardians; they also both have a power weapon. Martian Manhunter despite having invisibility, he can be picked up by radar from Iron man and Ant-man. His mind stuff would only go on for a while before hulk (who is to stupid to be effecting by physic attacks) breaks him in half. King of atlantis? He is like the superman of the sea. Sadly for him, THEY'RE IN A FIELD. GL is tough, but wasp could keep him busy until iron man blasts him through the ground. Batman is also a hard-hitter, but he's paralleled by cap in every way. the tie-breaker would be any available avenger. And finally, the fastest man alive's motions could be visually slowed down by the sensors in Iron Man's helmet. Avengers win.

I have to agree with this, but DC fan-boys get aggressive when you suggest that the JLA could lose.

I DO have a history of arguing for the minority party. This may take part, and I probably did exaggerate the Avengers, but the point I was trying to make is that the Avengers aren't just a bunch wusses. If you think about it, they have a fighting chance. The advanced science of Iron man, Ant-man's intellegence, Cap's h2h skill, hulk's....hulkiness, Thor's might. Wasp sucks, but still.

The Avengers are totally outmatched with wasp and ant-man, but to say Thor is the only threat is just stupid, especially when the Hulk

has faced off against thor many times, and even won more of their fights.

There's a difference between "getting aggressive when you suggest the JLA could lose" and "pointing out how idiotic it would be for Wasp and Iron Man to beat Green Lantern". I mean, honestly....you're suggesting that in a team with Thor and the Hulk, Iron Man is the MVP? That his tech counters the abilities of Martian Manhunter, Green Lantern and Flash? Seriously?

@MrPhoenix: Not in this Avenger line-up. it is weak. Pym & Wasp are pointless here... MM, Superman, & WW take out Thor & Hulk. There is nothing Iron Man can do to GL. (especially without prep, to create a "suit" that could do anything) Cap probably beats Batman, But there is still Aquaman & The Flash. The Flash could dominate Steve, Pym & Janet before they can blink.

Like said earlier.... The Avengers will need a better line-up than this if they are going to have any chance of "winning".

@CitizenBane: No im not saying that the Avengers would win, its an unfair line-up, but a think a few factors that are being completely missed.

And i think wwenmdc has some good points.

@iamthewolf88: Superman and WW beat Hulk and Thor, how can you be so sure its going to happen like this?

Alright man, I'll give you a point by point breakdown:

@wwenmdc said:

You are all under-estimating the avengers. Superman could be distracted by the hulk. Supes can do more, but Hulk is easily stronger and more savage.

Supes is generally stronger than the Hulk and if Gladiator's Heat Vision can put the Hulk down, I'm pretty sure Supes could. Supes is much, much too fast for Hulk to win a fight with if they went one on one. So at some point in the match, you've got a free Superman who just took down the Hulk popping into the rest of the fights.

@wwenmdc said:

Wonder Woman is matched by thor, because the Amazons are about the same physically as the asgardians; they also both have a power weapon.

I actually agree with this. They should be very evenly matched, with Diana generally carrying a better assortment of weapons and being faster, while Thor should be stronger at both striking and has pretty excellent energy projection. I wouldn't fault you for saying Thor takes a close fight.

@wwenmdc said:

Martian Manhunter despite having invisibility, he can be picked up by radar from Iron man and Ant-man. His mind stuff would only go on for a while before hulk (who is to stupid to be effecting by physic attacks) breaks him in half.

Wrong. Martian Manhunter is not only invisible, he is intangible, meaning that radar (which works by bouncing sound waves through and off of matter) would not affect him at all. In no way could Ant Man neutralize the most powerful member of the JL who has the highest effect on the fight with his psychic link coordinating them, and his greater than superman stats and abilities. Also, in this part, you assume Hulk has already beaten Superman. There have been a LOT of these arguments on these forums, and frankly, there's no practical reason to assume Hulk would beat Supes 1 on 1 unless you're using a VERY low showing Superman vs the best showing of Hulk. You also don't address how MMH's psychic attacks would work on anyone ELSE on the Avengers, seeing as only Iron Man has natural immunity through his suit to TP, and maybe Hulk depending on the version. J'onn could physically stomp everyone on the Avengers team at ONCE besides maybe Thor, who's occupied with Wonder Woman as per your own stipulation.

@wwenmdc said:

King of atlantis? He is like the superman of the sea. Sadly for him, THEY'RE IN A FIELD.

Arthur is still a far above Captain America level fighter with magic weaponry. If he's got his Aqua Hand he can literally kill everyone on the Avengers with a touch. Imagine if Namor wasn't significantly weaker on land and crapped out magic weapons and you've got Arthur.

@wwenmdc said:

GL is tough, but wasp could keep him busy until iron man blasts him through the ground.

Iron Man, in no conceivable way, has ever had enough power to bust Hal's shields in the slightest. Also you already had Iron man dealing with J'onn in this fight, do you have 2 Iron Mans? If so, what is GL doing while Iron Man is trying to track J'onn and blast him with his tech? GL's got the most versatile powerset of the group. If you're saying Iron Man is fighting GL while J'onn is fighting Ant Man, then that's two quick, vicious stomps for the JL because they far, far outclass those two in a fight. That's two powerhouses roaming the battle at this point, three if you count Superman > Hulk, but that one should take longer than the stomping J'onn would give Ant Man and Wasp and Hal would give Iron Man.

@wwenmdc said:

Batman is also a hard-hitter, but he's paralleled by cap in every way. the tie-breaker would be any available avenger.

Batman's irrelevant except for maybe analysis and information giving. I guess he could skirmish with cap, but Aqua Man would be fighting him too (they'd be the pure ground level fighters, so it makes sense), so that's a one sided fight in favor of the JL if only because of a heavy number's advantage.

@wwenmdc said:

And finally, the fastest man alive's motions could be visually slowed down by the sensors in Iron Man's helmet. Avengers win.

I'm still trying to figure this out. How does Flash go slower because someone can track him? Honestly, I don't think Tony could keep track of Barry anyhow (much less Wally, but this did say original JLA, so it'd be Barry). And how does tracking him change the fact that Barry could easily take out Ant Man or Cap before anyone else knew the fight started(it's not like those two have light speed reactions that Barry can fight at)? At that point you've got a guy who can phase explode people with a touch or drop thousands of power hitter punches in a split second roaming the field. Also you've now got Iron Man in 3 fights at once, considering he is apparently neutralizing Flash, J'onn, and Hal by himself. Hardly the most reasonable assumption.

Here's my take: Ant-Man, Wasp and Cap are very, very easily disposed of by the combination of Flash, J'onn, Batman, and Aquaman due to numbers, better stats, and stronger powers. Iron Man is busy trying to fly around and blast Hal, but is pretty ineffective. While this goes on, Supes stalemates Hulk (who's atleast durable enough to take up Superman's time, and Superman generally takes the big strong brute in team fights), and Thor stalemates Wonder Woman. About 10 seconds into the fight you've got 3 stalemates with Flash, Aquaman, Batman and, most importantly, J'onn interrupting the other fights and giving the JL a huge advantage.

Avengers suffer from lacking a large number of the heavy hitters that make up their team later, while the JL has a higher number of members who sport greater powers and stats and a very unfair numbers advantage. Unless you really think Tony can singlehandedly neutralize Flash, Hal, and J'onn in this fight, the Avengers get overwhelmed, and quickly.

@MrPhoenix said:

@CitizenBane: No im not saying that the Avengers would win, its an unfair line-up, but a think a few factors that are being completely missed.

And i think wwenmdc has some good points.

I think all his points are rubbish, honestly. Aquaman's useless because they're "IN A FIELD"? Martian Manhunter can be picked up on radar? Iron Man's visor can keep track of Flash even though Superman himself cannot? Wasp keeps Green Lantern busy? Amazons are about the same as Asgardians? Hulk is "too stupid" to be affected by psychic attacks, even though both Thanos and Abyss have laid a psychic whammy on him in the last 6 months alone without a problem? Iron Man blasts Green Lantern through the ground? Hulk just breaks everyone in half?

At best he knows very little about the JLA, at worst he knows very little about the Avengers.

@MrPhoenix: I said Martian Manhunter, Superman & Wonder Woman beat Hulk & Thor. 3 against 2. Because there is nowhere else for them to be... anyone else they would fight is overkill. I didn't even have Aquaman fight anybody. We can throw him in and it's 4 against 2. I am saying that, because Batman, Green Lantern & The Flash can easily take Wasp, Ant-Man, Captain America & Iron Man. You can flip it any way you'd like. MM can sit back and mind rape everyone..... Green Lantern can wrap them all up and toss them into space........The Flash can disable anyone before they can blink (picoseconds = 1 trillionth of a second). Superman can blow the lower tear characters a state away with super breath, or freeze them........ the possibilities are endless.

Flash And Supes could take out the Hulk and Iron Man. That leaves WW vs Thor which I admit I would lean more towards Thor because of his extensive Magic abilities. Yet that still leaves MM, GL and Aquaman vs Wasp and Antman and Cap...Batman could just chill because this would be over fairly quick unless Thor and Hulk can ttake out everyone on the JL.

@CitizenBane: Hulk is usually rather resistant to psychic attacks although not so much lately, although I don't think its

because he is "too stupid" i cant get involved in this debate as much as id like because i only really have a basic knowledge of the JLA,

but I do know that the hulk will be a bigger factor that what people seem to realise, i thought wwenmdc had some good points

because i assumed he knew all of the characters well enough.

JLA stomps

@iamthewolf88: Yeah just realised lol, but in any case you have to admit it was an unfair fight from the start.

Well. 7 Justice Leaguers v 6 Avengers means at least 1 avenger will have to participate in multiple fights. I chose iron man bc hes the most versatile avenger. I'm not saying he's the "MVP", I'm saying he could easily float around and throw in a punch here and there to keep the fights balanced. like i said, wasp could make a distraction for GL until another Avenger (I said Iron Man, but anyone really) could come in and bring him down.

When the Justice League was formed, Superman was very meh. But Hulk However was an espicially mindless and gargantuan monster. Due to these circumstances, Hulk has the edge. Likewise, Thor has an advantage over WW: He's slightly slower, but is like 10 times her strength. He also has that one thing......what's that called again? Oh yeah, LIGHTNING.

On the Topic of Thor, He does have a basic knowledge of magic, does he not? With this, couldn't he do something about the pesky intangebility? Or maybe snap some of Aquaman's magic little toys?

BTW I'm not saying the Flash would physically go slower, but that helmet that Iron man's in i'm sure has some sort of Slow-Mo thingy. He's never done anything like that to Whirlwind?

MM mind rapes?

@MrPhoenix: Yeah. It would be interesting to throw in better characters. Sentry, Ms. Marvel, Vision.... or maybe throw in like 15 of them. There are a lot of just "average" humans on the Avengers.

JL

@CitizenBane You are being closed-minded and there fore I don't wanna talk to you anymore.

@iamthewolf88: I completely see what you're saying, but one thing you need to accept: The combined talents of the Avengers have a way to beat each character. And that is backed up by this: let's face it, the Avengers have a team dynamic that the JL could never match. As the Justice League would try to take them on solo, the avengers would stick together.That's why they would last a gauntlet of DC's finest.

@wwenmdc:Could you present to me a plausible scenario of how the Avengers beat the JLA

Are saying that the justice league wouldn't stick together?

i love the Avengers and would be routing for em but this a losing fight with this cast.

On a side note Batman is a thinker, he would be first to realise teamwork is key. although its obvious.

@afueikawa: Mind rapes..... ftw

@wwenmdc said:

@CitizenBane You are being closed-minded and there fore I don't wanna talk to you anymore.

Somehow, I will endure.

@wwenmdc: I don't know if i believe that you believe what you're saying.......... a better team? work together better? run the gauntlet against DC's finest?????

team work- MM telepathic links them during fights so they can communicate mentally, and constantly know what is happening to eachother at all times. They have more time under their belts, and have stuck with a consistent group longer, so their dynamic is better in that sense. The Avengers are all over the place. half of the time Thor is off doing his own thing, The Hulk is an unpredictable mess, Pym & Wasp contribute but don't bring much to the table.... and Tony's antics are always in question.

........... and I won't touch the DC's finest thing, because I think you were just looking to get a rise out of people.

@wwenmdc said:

Well. 7 Justice Leaguers v 6 Avengers means at least 1 avenger will have to participate in multiple fights. I chose iron man bc hes the most versatile avenger. I'm not saying he's the "MVP", I'm saying he could easily float around and throw in a punch here and there to keep the fights balanced. like i said, wasp could make a distraction for GL until another Avenger (I said Iron Man, but anyone really) could come in and bring him down.

When the Justice League was formed, Superman was very meh. But Hulk However was an espicially mindless and gargantuan monster. Due to these circumstances, Hulk has the edge. Likewise, Thor has an advantage over WW: He's slightly slower, but is like 10 times her strength. He also has that one thing......what's that called again? Oh yeah, LIGHTNING.

On the Topic of Thor, He does have a basic knowledge of magic, does he not? With this, couldn't he do something about the pesky intangebility? Or maybe snap some of Aquaman's magic little toys?

BTW I'm not saying the Flash would physically go slower, but that helmet that Iron man's in i'm sure has some sort of Slow-Mo thingy. He's never done anything like that to Whirlwind?

Thor couldn't hurt Vision if we're talking early incarnation of the leagues(I believe he eventually figures out a way to hit intangible targets, but don't quote me on that). When the JLA first formed, it was in the Silver Age. If you really, really want to take the "in their first incarnation" seriously, then Silver Age Superman solos viciously.

Why would something that worked on Whirldwind work on Barry Allen? Barry Allen is significantly faster, can dodge lasers, phase, etc. Tony couldn't just shoot him with a slow mo beam out of his head. Heck, Barry could literally phase Tony out of his suit at the start of the fight before Tony could even think, lol.

Martian Manhunter solos.

Flash solos.

JLA murderstomps.