#1 Edited by BigCimmerian (8400 posts) - - Show Bio

- JLD roster is Madame Xanadu, Constantine, Zatanna, Deadman, Andrew Bennet, Shade the Changing man and Enchantress

- Captain Marvel and Black Adam are pre Flashpoint, Justice League has 3 hours prep

- Morals off both sides, but no speedblitz, who wins and why?

#2 Posted by BigCimmerian (8400 posts) - - Show Bio

bump

#3 Posted by greenteaforme (1826 posts) - - Show Bio

Black Adam could probably solo them.

#4 Posted by Oni_Bane (1596 posts) - - Show Bio

Black Adam solos. No more silly faces.

#5 Posted by Moon_Bat_87 (719 posts) - - Show Bio

@greenteaforme said:

Black Adam could probably solo them.

Black Adam really tends to be overrated in threads....

There is some really powerful magic going up against him and Billy.

But I say Adam and Marvel win, not not as easily as some assume.

#6 Posted by jeanroygrant (20191 posts) - - Show Bio

@greenteaforme said:

Black Adam could probably solo them.

@Oni_Bane said:

Black Adam solos. No more silly faces.

Why can't Captain Marvel solo?

#7 Posted by Oni_Bane (1596 posts) - - Show Bio

@jeanroygrant: I think that cap is a little soft. Whereas Adam is bloodlust at all time.

#8 Posted by Immortal777 (7625 posts) - - Show Bio

Does team 2 have some way of dealing with Deadman?

#9 Edited by robertloucksjr (1754 posts) - - Show Bio

That is a lot of magic to go up against. Unless you are allowing speed blitzing, I think I go with JL Dark. Couldn't Zatanna just say 'fight each other to the death' backwards to cut it down to one opponent?

#10 Posted by BigCimmerian (8400 posts) - - Show Bio

@robertloucksjr said:

That is a lot of magic to go up against. Unless you are allowing speed blitzing, I think I go with JL Dark. Couldn't Zatanna just say 'fight each other to the death' backwards to cut it down to one opponent?

I'm not sure it would work because both Adam and Captain Marvel are both very powerful and magical in nature.

#11 Posted by beatboks1 (7259 posts) - - Show Bio

JL Dark wins. Almost half of the JL dark could solo. Deadman could take possession of one to fight the other. Echantress could channel the magic of the others into only one of them to make them physically more powerful than either (if anyone remembers she was able to make Cap Marvel powerful enough to hold his own against the Spectre for a while using that trick). John has tricked the Presence, first of the Fallen, and several beings a Lot more powerful than these two, he could simply make them see each other as enemies (much like he makes people see a fist full of money instead of paper when he wants to pay for crap). Zatanna could just say "cigam gnithgil elirts meht htob" and they could both be struck by their own magic lightning and depowered, or "mazahs yas" to achieve the same. Not to mention that almost any could sue the same method Dr Fate (Hector) used in JSA to defeat BA and simply bring a magic lightning bolt from another point in time to strike them in the here and now to depower.

#12 Posted by greenteaforme (1826 posts) - - Show Bio

@Moon_Bat_87 said:

@greenteaforme said:

Black Adam could probably solo them.

Black Adam really tends to be overrated in threads....

There is some really powerful magic going up against him and Billy.

But I say Adam and Marvel win, not not as easily as some assume.

@beatboks1 said:

JL Dark wins. Almost half of the JL dark could solo. Deadman could take possession of one to fight the other. Echantress could channel the magic of the others into only one of them to make them physically more powerful than either (if anyone remembers she was able to make Cap Marvel powerful enough to hold his own against the Spectre for a while using that trick). John has tricked the Presence, first of the Fallen, and several beings a Lot more powerful than these two, he could simply make them see each other as enemies (much like he makes people see a fist full of money instead of paper when he wants to pay for crap). Zatanna could just say "cigam gnithgil elirts meht htob" and they could both be struck by their own magic lightning and depowered, or "mazahs yas" to achieve the same. Not to mention that almost any could sue the same method Dr Fate (Hector) used in JSA to defeat BA and simply bring a magic lightning bolt from another point in time to strike them in the here and now to depower.

Black Adam is not overrated.

Black Adam went on a rampage across the world, killed a bunch of heroes, took on three super hero teams by himself and was totally unfazed, and continued his rampage. Black Adam's rampage was far more impressive than the Hulk's.

Zatanna was also involved in taking him down, but only did so with Captain Marvel's knowledge and help. She also had to utilize the magical lightning to do so, which none of them will have access to.

None of those silly things are going to work on them, as their powers are magical in nature and they've displayed resistance to magic over and over again.

#13 Posted by CODYSF (2053 posts) - - Show Bio

LOL I could see Deadman take over Cap or Black Adam body the team got this.

#14 Posted by beatboks1 (7259 posts) - - Show Bio

@greenteaforme: Most of those "silly things" are actually ways in which they have both been deceived, or defeated in the past. So now all of a sudden all their history and ways that they ahve been bested are null and void just because YOU say so?? Cap was mystically deceived into thinking that Superman was Black Adam and fought him, cap was magically made to say his magic word, BA was transformed into Teth by magic lighting brought from another time, others have called on the lightning by knowing the magic word. Both have been possessed and both have shown resistance (with the right spell to break that down - GONE). Both have succumb to magic weaker than any of the players here.

BA is overrated because people WWII at something other than face value and the PIS it is.

  1. BA copped several hits during that whole story ark and struggled the whole way through
  2. he defeated several teams of heroes when he has lost countless times to smaller groups of lesser powered heroes, and you don't find that to be atter crap writing. Oh and before you pull the "bloodlusted card he's been blood lusted for over half of his showings.

So lets look at some of the reason why WWIII was PIS

  1. He's been beaten by Powergirl, but he defeats a team including her, Cap Marvel, Donna Troy and other power houses
  2. Get's punched through the roof and across buildings by Atom Smasher, also smashed to the ground by Al when Giant in 52in which he was also blood lusted (another one of the many heroes he defeated
  3. Struggles to tag and is thrown by Black Canary in JSA ( a street leveler and yet all these heroes were so easy)
  4. Takes a beating by the earth Sand throws at him earth at he (another of those present for WWIII)
  5. Can't keep up with or tag or defend against Jay Garrick on several occasions but in WWII can do both him and Jesse Quick plus other powerhouses present
  6. Get's mind bitched by Brainwave Jr (while insane) and yet can make MM his bitch

One story ark that is contradicted by 100's that state something quite the contrary is not much evidence IMO. Easily refuted

Sorry, far from impressed.

#15 Edited by Moon_Bat_87 (719 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1 said:

@greenteaforme: Most of those "silly things" are actually ways in which they have both been deceived, or defeated in the past. So now all of a sudden all their history and ways that they ahve been bested are null and void just because YOU say so?? Cap was mystically deceived into thinking that Superman was Black Adam and fought him, cap was magically made to say his magic word, BA was transformed into Teth by magic lighting brought from another time, others have called on the lightning by knowing the magic word. Both have been possessed and both have shown resistance (with the right spell to break that down - GONE). Both have succumb to magic weaker than any of the players here.

BA is overrated because people WWII at something other than face value and the PIS it is.

  1. BA copped several hits during that whole story ark and struggled the whole way through
  2. he defeated several teams of heroes when he has lost countless times to smaller groups of lesser powered heroes, and you don't find that to be atter crap writing. Oh and before you pull the "bloodlusted card he's been blood lusted for over half of his showings.

So lets look at some of the reason why WWIII was PIS

  1. He's been beaten by Powergirl, but he defeats a team including her, Cap Marvel, Donna Troy and other power houses
  2. Get's punched through the roof and across buildings by Atom Smasher, also smashed to the ground by Al when Giant in 52in which he was also blood lusted (another one of the many heroes he defeated
  3. Struggles to tag and is thrown by Black Canary in JSA ( a street leveler and yet all these heroes were so easy)
  4. Takes a beating by the earth Sand throws at him earth at he (another of those present for WWIII)
  5. Can't keep up with or tag or defend against Jay Garrick on several occasions but in WWII can do both him and Jesse Quick plus other powerhouses present
  6. Get's mind bitched by Brainwave Jr (while insane) and yet can make MM his bitch

One story ark that is contradicted by 100's that state something quite the contrary is not much evidence IMO. Easily refuted

Sorry, far from impressed.

I agree with you. Great post.

#16 Posted by ChaosBlazer (3930 posts) - - Show Bio

@Oni_Bane said:

Black Adam solos. No more silly faces.

Maybe this.

@jeanroygrant said:

@greenteaforme said:

Black Adam could probably solo them.

@Oni_Bane said:

Black Adam solos. No more silly faces.

Why can't Captain Marvel solo?

Well, for one thing black Adam has defeated Captain Marvel in the past, so he's more powerful than Marvel is.

#17 Posted by TheGraySon (457 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1 said:

@greenteaforme: Most of those "silly things" are actually ways in which they have both been deceived, or defeated in the past. So now all of a sudden all their history and ways that they ahve been bested are null and void just because YOU say so?? Cap was mystically deceived into thinking that Superman was Black Adam and fought him, cap was magically made to say his magic word, BA was transformed into Teth by magic lighting brought from another time, others have called on the lightning by knowing the magic word. Both have been possessed and both have shown resistance (with the right spell to break that down - GONE). Both have succumb to magic weaker than any of the players here.

BA is overrated because people WWII at something other than face value and the PIS it is.

  1. BA copped several hits during that whole story ark and struggled the whole way through
  2. he defeated several teams of heroes when he has lost countless times to smaller groups of lesser powered heroes, and you don't find that to be atter crap writing. Oh and before you pull the "bloodlusted card he's been blood lusted for over half of his showings.

So lets look at some of the reason why WWIII was PIS

  1. He's been beaten by Powergirl, but he defeats a team including her, Cap Marvel, Donna Troy and other power houses
  2. Get's punched through the roof and across buildings by Atom Smasher, also smashed to the ground by Al when Giant in 52in which he was also blood lusted (another one of the many heroes he defeated
  3. Struggles to tag and is thrown by Black Canary in JSA ( a street leveler and yet all these heroes were so easy)
  4. Takes a beating by the earth Sand throws at him earth at he (another of those present for WWIII)
  5. Can't keep up with or tag or defend against Jay Garrick on several occasions but in WWII can do both him and Jesse Quick plus other powerhouses present
  6. Get's mind bitched by Brainwave Jr (while insane) and yet can make MM his bitch

One story ark that is contradicted by 100's that state something quite the contrary is not much evidence IMO. Easily refuted

Sorry, far from impressed.

That seems like PIS and id like to see the scans if you have any.

Anyway i think weve had this conversation before, but WWIII was not PIS. The only people he fatally injured were the teen titans, which is reasonable. He lost when he should have. The fight with the JSA and all those teams together was rather short. He gets a few hits in, then gets hit himself, and hes restrained by two people. He doesnt actually "defeat" anyone. At the last battle most people seem to be fine. Yeah, he tagged Jay, but everyone tags a flash eventually. Hes fought the JSA before, and hes gone toe to toe with power girl and alan scott at the same time, dont see why he cant do it again. MM's telepathy worked on the last fight. I guess what im trying to say is that battle was more of a testament to his will and durability than anything, so i dont see why its so absurd to refer to WW3. Except him making MM go running because of his evil thoughts. that was stupid as hell

#18 Posted by jeanroygrant (20191 posts) - - Show Bio

@ChaosBlazer said:

@Oni_Bane said:

Black Adam solos. No more silly faces.

Maybe this.

@jeanroygrant said:

@greenteaforme said:

Black Adam could probably solo them.

@Oni_Bane said:

Black Adam solos. No more silly faces.

Why can't Captain Marvel solo?

Well, for one thing black Adam has defeated Captain Marvel in the past, so he's more powerful than Marvel is.

Captain Marvel has defeated Black Adam in the past.

#19 Posted by pooty (11246 posts) - - Show Bio

@greenteaforme said:

@Moon_Bat_87 said:

@greenteaforme said:

Black Adam could probably solo them.

Black Adam really tends to be overrated in threads....

There is some really powerful magic going up against him and Billy.

But I say Adam and Marvel win, not not as easily as some assume.

@beatboks1 said:

JL Dark wins. Almost half of the JL dark could solo. Deadman could take possession of one to fight the other. Echantress could channel the magic of the others into only one of them to make them physically more powerful than either (if anyone remembers she was able to make Cap Marvel powerful enough to hold his own against the Spectre for a while using that trick). John has tricked the Presence, first of the Fallen, and several beings a Lot more powerful than these two, he could simply make them see each other as enemies (much like he makes people see a fist full of money instead of paper when he wants to pay for crap). Zatanna could just say "cigam gnithgil elirts meht htob" and they could both be struck by their own magic lightning and depowered, or "mazahs yas" to achieve the same. Not to mention that almost any could sue the same method Dr Fate (Hector) used in JSA to defeat BA and simply bring a magic lightning bolt from another point in time to strike them in the here and now to depower.

Black Adam is not overrated.

Black Adam went on a rampage across the world, killed a bunch of heroes, took on three super hero teams by himself and was totally unfazed, and continued his rampage. Black Adam's rampage was far more impressive than the Hulk's.

Zatanna was also involved in taking him down, but only did so with Captain Marvel's knowledge and help. She also had to utilize the magical lightning to do so, which none of them will have access to.

None of those silly things are going to work on them, as their powers are magical in nature and they've displayed resistance to magic over and over again.

He killed some no names. Fought off teams that were only trying to contain him not harm him. The second page of WW3 says that "there are many more powerful than him but none so ruthless". Who is the most powerful person BA has actually beaten that was blood lusted and trying to hurt him?

@TheGraySon said:

@beatboks1 said:

@greenteaforme: Most of those "silly things" are actually ways in which they have both been deceived, or defeated in the past. So now all of a sudden all their history and ways that they ahve been bested are null and void just because YOU say so?? Cap was mystically deceived into thinking that Superman was Black Adam and fought him, cap was magically made to say his magic word, BA was transformed into Teth by magic lighting brought from another time, others have called on the lightning by knowing the magic word. Both have been possessed and both have shown resistance (with the right spell to break that down - GONE). Both have succumb to magic weaker than any of the players here.

BA is overrated because people WWII at something other than face value and the PIS it is.

  1. BA copped several hits during that whole story ark and struggled the whole way through
  2. he defeated several teams of heroes when he has lost countless times to smaller groups of lesser powered heroes, and you don't find that to be atter crap writing. Oh and before you pull the "bloodlusted card he's been blood lusted for over half of his showings.

So lets look at some of the reason why WWIII was PIS

  1. He's been beaten by Powergirl, but he defeats a team including her, Cap Marvel, Donna Troy and other power houses
  2. Get's punched through the roof and across buildings by Atom Smasher, also smashed to the ground by Al when Giant in 52in which he was also blood lusted (another one of the many heroes he defeated
  3. Struggles to tag and is thrown by Black Canary in JSA ( a street leveler and yet all these heroes were so easy)
  4. Takes a beating by the earth Sand throws at him earth at he (another of those present for WWIII)
  5. Can't keep up with or tag or defend against Jay Garrick on several occasions but in WWII can do both him and Jesse Quick plus other powerhouses present
  6. Get's mind bitched by Brainwave Jr (while insane) and yet can make MM his bitch

One story ark that is contradicted by 100's that state something quite the contrary is not much evidence IMO. Easily refuted

Sorry, far from impressed.

That seems like PIS and id like to see the scans if you have any.

Anyway i think weve had this conversation before, but WWIII was not PIS. The only people he fatally injured were the teen titans, which is reasonable. He lost when he should have. The fight with the JSA and all those teams together was rather short. He gets a few hits in, then gets hit himself, and hes restrained by two people. He doesnt actually "defeat" anyone. At the last battle most people seem to be fine. Yeah, he tagged Jay, but everyone tags a flash eventually. Hes fought the JSA before, and hes gone toe to toe with power girl and alan scott at the same time, dont see why he cant do it again. MM's telepathy worked on the last fight. I guess what im trying to say is that battle was more of a testament to his will and durability than anything, so i dont see why its so absurd to refer to WW3. Except him making MM go running because of his evil thoughts. that was stupid as hell

@beatboks1 said:

@greenteaforme: Most of those "silly things" are actually ways in which they have both been deceived, or defeated in the past. So now all of a sudden all their history and ways that they ahve been bested are null and void just because YOU say so?? Cap was mystically deceived into thinking that Superman was Black Adam and fought him, cap was magically made to say his magic word, BA was transformed into Teth by magic lighting brought from another time, others have called on the lightning by knowing the magic word. Both have been possessed and both have shown resistance (with the right spell to break that down - GONE). Both have succumb to magic weaker than any of the players here.

BA is overrated because people WWII at something other than face value and the PIS it is.

  1. BA copped several hits during that whole story ark and struggled the whole way through
  2. he defeated several teams of heroes when he has lost countless times to smaller groups of lesser powered heroes, and you don't find that to be atter crap writing. Oh and before you pull the "bloodlusted card he's been blood lusted for over half of his showings.

So lets look at some of the reason why WWIII was PIS

  1. He's been beaten by Powergirl, but he defeats a team including her, Cap Marvel, Donna Troy and other power houses
  2. Get's punched through the roof and across buildings by Atom Smasher, also smashed to the ground by Al when Giant in 52in which he was also blood lusted (another one of the many heroes he defeated
  3. Struggles to tag and is thrown by Black Canary in JSA ( a street leveler and yet all these heroes were so easy)
  4. Takes a beating by the earth Sand throws at him earth at he (another of those present for WWIII)
  5. Can't keep up with or tag or defend against Jay Garrick on several occasions but in WWII can do both him and Jesse Quick plus other powerhouses present
  6. Get's mind bitched by Brainwave Jr (while insane) and yet can make MM his bitch

One story ark that is contradicted by 100's that state something quite the contrary is not much evidence IMO. Easily refuted

Sorry, far from impressed.

Agreed

#20 Posted by beatboks1 (7259 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheGraySon said:


That seems like PIS and id like to see the scans if you have any.

Sure

There's also this

For some reason (again) having trouble uploading some images to threads. The second image to the left one is here

Anyway i think weve had this conversation before, but WWIII was not PIS. The only people he fatally injured were the teen titans, which is reasonable. He lost when he should have. The fight with the JSA and all those teams together was rather short. He gets a few hits in, then gets hit himself, and hes restrained by two people. He doesnt actually "defeat" anyone. At the last battle most people seem to be fine. Yeah, he tagged Jay, but everyone tags a flash eventually. Hes fought the JSA before, and hes gone toe to toe with power girl and alan scott at the same time, dont see why he cant do it again. MM's telepathy worked on the last fight. I guess what im trying to say is that battle was more of a testament to his will and durability than anything, so i dont see why its so absurd to refer to WW3. Except him making MM go running because of his evil thoughts. that was stupid as hell

Yes we've discussed it before and you still miss the point that most people who refer to it over state the feats because they either HAVEN'T read it or have just skimmed it. The number of people who refer to WWIII as though that means BA can beat every single hero on earth with one arm tied behind his back is a joke. The fact that BA was defeated by one of the three teams he fought in that story over dozens of times as well as being defeated by portions of that team on several occasions. The fact is history ahs shown many times that it should have only taken a part of one of those teams to defeat him

#21 Posted by BigCimmerian (8400 posts) - - Show Bio

Maybe if I remove Deadman, Captain Marvel and Black Adam would have more chance?

#22 Posted by greenteaforme (1826 posts) - - Show Bio

I just have to add -

Black Adam has gone through at least two depowerments that I know of. He was still able to transform into Black Adam during one with Isis's magical power, but in a weaker state.

Any low end feats could easily be taken from these depowered states.

I didn't bother reading much/any of them.

But I'm just saying, low end feats are possibly explainable.

#23 Posted by beatboks1 (7259 posts) - - Show Bio

@greenteaforme:

Every low end feat I posted was from his normal power level before depowerment. Some of them were from issues where he exhibited his higher/est feats pages later. What I find harder to understand is why his higher feats, which when actually viewed in context aren't that much higher then the low ones show him in such a great light. One of the low showings I posted was from a lead up to WW3.

There is no doubt he is powerful, he is stronger and more durable than Captain marvel and Superman. he isn't as fast as either (a little over half light speed). he has greater metal resistance than cap due to the god's he get's his power from (differnt god's than Cap coutesy of the deal Lady Blaze did with Set to pervert her father Shazam's champion). He has knowledge, guile and cunning opposed to wisdom like Cap. cap on the other hand has greater endurance and speed (almost matching Flash and has been questioned if he has a speed force connection)

#24 Posted by greenteaforme (1826 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1 said:

@greenteaforme:

Every low end feat I posted was from his normal power level before depowerment. Some of them were from issues where he exhibited his higher/est feats pages later. What I find harder to understand is why his higher feats, which when actually viewed in context aren't that much higher then the low ones show him in such a great light. One of the low showings I posted was from a lead up to WW3.

There is no doubt he is powerful, he is stronger and more durable than Captain marvel and Superman. he isn't as fast as either (a little over half light speed). he has greater metal resistance than cap due to the god's he get's his power from (differnt god's than Cap coutesy of the deal Lady Blaze did with Set to pervert her father Shazam's champion). He has knowledge, guile and cunning opposed to wisdom like Cap. cap on the other hand has greater endurance and speed (almost matching Flash and has been questioned if he has a speed force connection)

I agree in showing some low end performances to bring some "reality" (word used really loosely) into the battles forum, but you shouldn't use it as a means to entirely dismiss the character, which is the tone I often get from you.

That being said, I think you seem to view Black Adam at a pretty reasonable level and I pretty much agree with the tier you seem to place him at.

#25 Posted by clemj (817 posts) - - Show Bio
@BigCimmerian: only if you remove him , otherwise, he takes control of each of then one per one and makes them kill themselves
#26 Posted by termiteone4ever (7578 posts) - - Show Bio

I dont know if the Marvel team can beat these Magic fools with out their bliz it these fools can probably think up come craziness and defeat these two magic brick houses

#27 Posted by TheGraySon (457 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1: Yeah i agree with you totally.. Im a BA fan and some people take WW3 out of proportion. However i dont think you should dismiss the fact that he usually fights against teams. Im not saying that he beats them, but he has the durability, combat speed, and will to go up against multiple enemies even if he loses. Thats what i think should be the take-away from WW3.

And that canary scan... She shouldnt have been able to grapple with him and toss him, it just makes no sense. Also he couldve snapped that baton...

#28 Posted by Jayfournines (4024 posts) - - Show Bio

With prep time Constantine solos

#29 Edited by addikhabbo (166 posts) - - Show Bio
Give him prep time says they. Bad idea says I. Do not give John Prep time. You will live to regret it.

#30 Posted by ForeverEvil (4788 posts) - - Show Bio

JLD easy. theyre way too powerful

#31 Edited by aquaman01 (1494 posts) - - Show Bio

PREP? If there is prep, the team has this. Too many wild cards.

#32 Edited by chiq (1974 posts) - - Show Bio

Does the Marvel team have an answer to Deadman even w/o prep? I'm going with the team

#33 Posted by New_World_Order (13235 posts) - - Show Bio

Justice League Dark.

#34 Posted by dondave (38009 posts) - - Show Bio

JLD

Online
#35 Posted by MonsterStomp (18268 posts) - - Show Bio
#36 Posted by The_Red_Viper (4167 posts) - - Show Bio

JLD via House of Mystery.